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Wild Moos
Welcome to Wild Moos, the no-holds-barred podcast where the boardroom meets the playroom.
Hosted by Amy of Mooeys and Nicole from Wild Bird Marketing, this podcast dives into the messy, joyful, and often chaotic life of being a mother and a business owner.
Every episode is a candid exploration of the trials and triumphs that come with juggling spreadsheets and sippy cups.
From start-up stories that defy the "perfect mum" myth to scaling a business without sacrificing sanity, Amy and Nicole share it all.
Expect laughter, tears, and plenty of swear words as they peel back the curtain on what it really takes to thrive in the dual worlds of business and motherhood.
Wild Moos is a community, a confession booth, and your cheerleading squad all rolled into one.
Whether you're knee-deep in nappies, drafting business plans, or just dreaming about what could be, Wild Moos is the podcast for every mum who’s ever had to lock the bathroom door just to answer an email.
Tune in for your regular dose of inspiration, commiseration, and a reminder that you're not alone on this wild ride of entrepreneurship and motherhood.
Wild Moos
Wild Moos Podcast Episode 18: Unveiling the Human Side of Entrepreneurial Success
With the captivating Debbie Lewis by our side, we traverse the remarkable stories of entrepreneurs who've catapulted their businesses to new heights after embracing business accelerator programs. While we miss the delightful distractions of Ted and his squirrel shenanigans, we're engrossed in tales that interweave the trials and tribulations of entrepreneurial ventures with the emotional landscapes of personal growth. From a science teacher's bold pivot into the beauty sector to the raw honesty of financial recoveries and the sentimental journey of selling one's business baby, these narratives aren't merely about business—they're reflections of the very human experiences that contour our professional paths.
This episode brims with the essence of empowerment and the undeniable imprint of mindset on success. Brace yourself for a deep dive into how authenticity and self-worth can dismantle societal hurdles and how a shift in perspective can transform a passion project into a profit powerhouse, as seen through the eyes of our guest. We don't just stop at stories; we connect the dots to show how mentorship and community are pivotal in steering the tumultuous voyage of business ownership, providing a lifeline amidst the solitude that often shadows the entrepreneurial spirit.
Wrap up with an impassioned discourse on the unique challenges faced by women in the business realm, as Debbie and I dissect the duality of wanting to serve and the necessity of charging for one's craft. This conversation extends beyond the business acumen, touching upon the courage to ask for more and the strategic maneuvers necessary for women to thrive in the competitive world of entrepreneurship. Join us as we lay bare not just the mechanics but the heart of what it takes to flourish in the world of business—a world where personal evolution is just as critical as professional triumph.
SHOW NOTES:
This incredible woman is mentioned towards the end of our show by Debbie as the lady who encourages everyone to be just 10% braver. We have checked her out and utterly adore her! Check out her tedx talk here: https://jazampawfarr.com/tedx-talk/
Debbie Lewis: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mrsdlewis/
Natwest Accelerator Programme: https://www.natwest.com/business/business-services/entrepreneur-accelerator.html
Nicole Bilham of WildBird Marketing Agency
https://wildbirdmarketing.co.uk/
Amy Lewis of The Mooeys Group
www.mooeys.co.uk | www.mooeysfranchise.co.uk | www.mooskin.co
Hey, yeah, I have got no clue what episode we are on. What is this? Season two episode three Woo-hoo, and we are not alone.
Speaker 2:The love of Ted's life, the love of Ted. Welcome the love of Terriers.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean I'm a little bit sad that Ted's not allowed in to join us.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he's too noisy. It's the squirrels man. If the squirrels come past, he's out and he's yapping away.
Speaker 1:Ted is the dog. It's a no from me. It's a no from me. I'm not investing in you, ted, not today.
Speaker 2:So we have the wonderful Debbie Lewis on and we are so excited to have you.
Speaker 1:Thank you for inviting me. Thanks for sharing our space. Thank you for inviting me. We have spoken about you quite a bit. Actually my ears have been burning?
Speaker 3:Did you edit out all of the bits that you thought, oh, we can't let her hear that? We said that.
Speaker 2:No, never actually edited anything that came to you. Kept you in real raw and authentic Because we have nothing but beautiful stories to say beautiful things to say. We love you, Debbie Lewis. We're proper girl crushing on you, and when we talk about you we kind of go oh. Debbie. I don't know that Katie Godfrey does as well, and I know that anybody that worked with you does.
Speaker 3:I've duped you all.
Speaker 2:And how cool that we're all kind of coming together and doing stuff. Did you know that this would happen when we were on that cohort of coming together and doing stuff? Did you know that this?
Speaker 3:would happen when we were on that cohort. Like, if I'm honest, I always feel that people who I really connect with through coaching I know I'm going to be connected to for a long time yeah but, as you know, as it has been with you guys, it drifts in and out and yeah, yeah I'd be sad if not right?
Speaker 2:yeah, it would be, wouldn't it because? You invest your energy yeah, you've invested, but you've given us so much time and energy and you're invested in our businesses and our growth. It'd be a real shame for you to not be part of seeing what happens, but that's the whole thing about finding your tribe right.
Speaker 3:There will be lots of people who have worked with me and I have worked with them, and we'd both be quite happy never to see each other again.
Speaker 1:But we probably knew that at the time as well yeah yeah yeah, you find your people, so we should probably talk a bit about how we all found each other, because this is this lovely three-way is the inception of our relationship together, right?
Speaker 2:a match made you you did in a way yeah, and katie godfrey, but you are you on?
Speaker 1:were you on the mid-COVID cohort? So ADS was due to finish at the end of March, wasn't it?
Speaker 2:And then it finished a little bit earlier because of COVID, so I was on that cohort, so it was your second, I think. So yeah, and then I only done one, so did Katie.
Speaker 3:You were definitely on before, yes, and then Katie joined, and then you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was me and katie on the same one yeah, and then I got up the duff, I think, and exited very quickly.
Speaker 2:Well, I only remember you from doing your um, yeah, your avatar piece when we were sitting on those beanbags. Yeah, I remember that because that was really interesting, because I had just gone into franchising. Then hadn't I? Yeah, I think, and I, I mean I probably look back at that application for the Accelerator programme, thinking what the hell it's? So I feel like a completely different person.
Speaker 1:I had to do a proper interview because this is pre-lockdown, so there were no. It wasn't an interview on Zoom, was it?
Speaker 3:No it was a real in-person.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Debbie's Den style, yeah, sell me. Was it? No, it was a real in person. Yeah. Yeah, debbie's den style, yeah, sell me your business.
Speaker 2:oh god you did great. What is it you're looking for when you do that, when you do those interviews? Is it in person still now?
Speaker 3:yeah, we're back to in person now. I think what we're looking for is mindset and somebody's ability to be able to scale so most businesses can grow. They're growable. Very few business are businesses are scalable. But actually the defining factor that we see is the business owner. How much do they want it? What's their plan? How organized is their shizzle? Where could we add value? Because sometimes people come in.
Speaker 3:Well, I have to, because I'm a natural swearer, so I've got to find alternatives and sometimes people come in and they've got absolutely brilliant businesses, their shizzle is so sorted out and they know it, yeah, and then you kind of go what? What are we going to be able to help you with?
Speaker 1:for the next six months.
Speaker 3:It's kind of they're not open to, they're like what? I don't know what more you can give me or teach me, and I instantly then I think you could be the best br story on earth.
Speaker 1:But if we haven't added value, you're not a great community member so yeah, it's definitely a little sprinkle of that how much of it is about being coachable as well the individual or the owners um, so on paper very much.
Speaker 3:In real life actually, peep, some people will really surprise you. So I remember vividly there was a chap, who shall remain nameless, who came for an interview and I spoke to him and I thought he sounds like he's really got everything sorted out, but I I can see cracks yeah and my colleague said, no, don't think they're coachable, I just think they've got everything.
Speaker 3:And I said please, can I? We used to call them wild cards. Can I take him as a wild card? I really think that there's something there, and I'm not often right and she was wrong Very rarely. She was always right, but in this situation it was exactly that he just learned to tell a story for so long about being great and actually the business was really terrible, um, but he didn't let people in and uh, well, I think we got to about month four of six before he would even share his turnover figures. Um, because he was kind of I don't need, why do I need to share that with you? It's private personal information. Yeah, and for me that was like a personal challenge.
Speaker 3:Yeah I bet uh and actually came on to the second cohort and we really got under the bonnet. But he had to have a real mindset shift fascinating.
Speaker 2:What's your most biggest success story from Accelerator Programme?
Speaker 3:in Milton Keynes. Our biggest success story is Holy Moly. Movies is a close second.
Speaker 1:I actually thought you were gonna say arthur ellis arthur ellis is doing phenomenally.
Speaker 3:I mean, what? What's success right? We've got people who um, in fact I'm sure rebecca won't mind me name checking her uh vr therapies when she came on.
Speaker 3:Uh for an interview on paper she she didn't meet the criteria. She was too early stage and Sharon at the time said I want to give her my world card. I just see something she's gone on to be a global speaker. She's running a physical therapy center in Northampton. She's got a team um grow a family like she's done incredible things. But on paper she didn't meet the eligibility criteria. So you know, john has had an incredible journey but holy moly um I love their salsa, the red pepper salsa they really like catapulted, didn't they?
Speaker 3:yeah, two really smart guys who were in corporate jobs, who were friends, who just had a great idea and took it from inception to investment over six years. So, really short trajectory of success, and they're still growing. You know, they're not sitting on their laurels, they've not sold out. What else can we do? What's next? What's more? And their brand is awesome.
Speaker 2:It is really cool. Not as good as movies You're too kind. It is an awesome brand, though, and I love it, and I love it, yeah. So then you through that whole stage with them when they were getting investment, like what?
Speaker 3:part of their business growth. Were you part of? I would love to say that I was really close to it, and it's all because of me, but actually I never coached them. They were successful, despite my intervention but not west I they.
Speaker 3:They came to us for cohorts right. They were on program when I joined that was accelerator um, and then they were there for another cohort and most of their success happened after right um. But there's no doubt that they still now got a text from them couple of months ago. Can you connect me with this person? The connectivity in the community they still rave about to this? Day yeah, um, but would they have done it without us?
Speaker 2:I think, they would have done, maybe, but I think it's a confidence, isn't it? I feel like, if I look back to my time at natwest, it was a confidence it gave me to stand in my power and be a business owner and I and have it, yeah, and that's lots of different things. That was from you, but it was also from the community, and it was from being around other businesses, other like-minded people, and you're like, oh, and I know we've spoken about this a lot is people who are successful are just successful versions of the rest of us.
Speaker 3:We, we are all just human beings. Yeah and I think, when you join an accelerator program or any business community, you, you do. There is an element of oh crikey, if they can do that. That I absolutely can so there's a lot of kind of affirmation and reassurance, but but also the shortcuts. I think the shortcuts are the beauty of being connected to so many business owner. You say something at the coffee area and someone else says, oh, I know somebody who does that. Yeah, how are you connected to them?
Speaker 1:yeah, I think the accelerator for me personally was such a a huge foundation for what I could do and I could achieve after leaving corporate and setting up. Not having the foggiest about what I was doing but trying to build something was so reassuring but also a hell of a lot to learn in a short period, and I recommend it now to any business owners that are struggling with those. You know a business plan or what, what, who do I go to for this? Where do I go to for that? So it's a I think it's a really, really unique program. Do you want to share what now? What the um criteria is now for the accelerator?
Speaker 3:yes, and we're actually coming up to our 10 year anniversary no way, yeah, a decade, that's terrifying.
Speaker 3:Yeah, a decade of supporting businesses. And when they very first started, it was real entry level, it was baby basics, it was people starting businesses. And now the eligibility criteria it's not set in stone. We don't have a you need to turn over x amount, but there are very few people who are turning over less than four grand a month. There are very few people who are not seeking in some way investment, um, and people who are looking at maybe internationalisation, franchise, licensing. There's got to be a growth plan. So there still isn't black and white criteria of you need to be all these things. But if your business is a real business in its own right, you're not just playing at an idea.
Speaker 1:It's not a side hustle.
Speaker 3:Well, even side hustles can get on the programme as long as you've got the capacity to grow it in that six months. But less side hustles, we see and these are basically business owners who need a little bit of direction, support a bit of rocket fuel in the tank, but that rocket fuel is not going to blow the doors off. It's less likely to be a one-person band, because how busy do you want to be? Yeah, going through the program gives you so many ideas and so many opportunities. If you're just working on your own, it's very hard to optimize and take advantage of that. But I wish it existed when I run a business so good, right, debbie Lewis?
Speaker 1:so we picture ourselves as the real, raw, raucous, unfiltered truth of running a business. You've had multiple businesses yeah, more failed ones than successful ones, but we'll focus on the successful ones hey, you taught me once you've got to fail fast and learn quickly. That's the number one rule right.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I learned far more from failure than I ever did from success, and that's not just a cheesy catchphrase.
Speaker 1:So tell us how? Just start saying it Well, yes, you can, of course you can, but where did it all start?
Speaker 3:I well, yes, you can, of course you can. But where did it all start I? As far back as I can remember, the only thing I wanted was a better life, inverted commas yeah. So growing up and I really giggle when I tell this story, because growing up and being homeless and living in awful council estates in cambridge- when you have no accent doesn't sound quite as gritty as anywhere else in the country.
Speaker 3:but my reality was everybody I went to school with lived in beautiful thatched cottages and had the opportunity to go to, you know, beautiful holidays and and actually my dad was a taxi driver, my mum was a cleaner and we we really lived kind of day to day and I was very loved. I had an amazing upbringing but we had nothing and I'm quite grateful we could never afford shell suits.
Speaker 2:because now I look back at the pictures and I'm grateful we were able Is it just you, or did you have siblings? Just me?
Speaker 3:only child, not through lack of trying on my mum's part. She had, I think, about 11 miscarriages.
Speaker 1:Oh bless her.
Speaker 3:And a hysterectomy and, yeah, she had a horrible time. So I was very, very fortunate. But my mum, uh left, moved out quite early in my formative years and and so it was me and dad and I felt. I always felt like, no matter what school I went to, I was so, blooming, average or below average. So I was average academically, I was average socially and I think I learned and I hear a lot of comedians say this I learned that by entertaining people, people liked you more. So even though you didn't have the best house and the best parties and the best, actually, if you had a bit of a personality about you, people would invite you to things. So I did really quickly get quite confident and a lot of that was false confidence and fake confidence, and I know you hate fake it till you make it, but back then that was my mantra, and it got me so many opportunities and I started working when I was, because back then you didn't have the laws you have now, because I'm an old dinosaur.
Speaker 3:Working in salons when I was 13 and that gift of the gab and connecting with people, I really learned that people were my superpower and I loved working in a salon and I'd actually through this. Confidence got more confident in school and I said I want to be a beauty therapist. Confidence got more confident in school and I said I want, I want to be a beauty therapist and my teacher was horrified and said I think we can aim a bit higher than that and I went home to my dad and I remember saying but dad.
Speaker 3:All I've ever loved is being in a salon. I really want to work in a salon. I was maybe 14, so he agreed that we would scrimp and save and get me onto an evening class. So I learned and I qualified as a beauty therapist at 15 before doing my GCSEs and so I was employed in a salon when I was 15 years old doing nails, and I just have never left the salon industry since then. It's always been my safe space, my happy place, and I love how salon environment makes me feel. But I just always felt really frustrated about the lack of opportunity, the low pay, and my brain needed a bit more than what I was getting from that role. Lovely conversation, but not a lot of stretch.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:So I decided I'd go to university, as you do when you've got no money and no one in your family's ever been to university, yeah, and I thought, well, what else can I do? That salon related. And I remember going to the college open evening and saying I want to do a degree, but I love beauty, and they kind of looked at me and went, huh, science then. Because back then there was no degrees, there was no option yeah to do anything higher.
Speaker 3:So I did a degree in medical biology four years I didn't know this.
Speaker 1:Yes, I did.
Speaker 3:My work experience was in a mortuary. I have held a human brain and all the time did you enjoy it.
Speaker 2:I hated everything. Four years, four years.
Speaker 3:It was painful where did you do it? Uh, university of hertfordshire, right in the hatfield, um, and to get through university because I was living with just my dad, um, I had to work four jobs a day. I, every day. I used to get out crack of dawn, carer, and then I would go and do my studies and then I'd go and work in a salon, and then I'd work in a restaurant, which is where I got fed, and then I'd work in a bar. So I, literally from five in the morning until midnight I would be working. From what age? When I went to university? So 18, what age do you go to university? 17, 18, until 2021, I spent so tired.
Speaker 3:I spent my whole life being tired and working, but I am a workaholic. I don't know how to just switch off and chill out. I think as a result of years of doing that.
Speaker 1:So what do you, now that you've had all these learnings, you've got this self-awareness, how do you switch off?
Speaker 3:I very rarely switch off. I love spending time with my friends. I love laughter. I love, love, love. Just chatting nonsense over a bottle of wine. Please drink responsibly.
Speaker 1:That's a lovely disclaimer.
Speaker 3:What's your favourite? Wine though, but my friends will tell you If they say let's go for a spa day. I, two hours in, I'm bored out of my mind. Yeah, I hate just doing that thing. You love that connection though.
Speaker 2:It's go for a spa day. I two hours in and bored out my mind. Yeah, I hate just. You love that connection, though it's people for you, isn't it? And also, like you're, a foodie you love really nice restaurants.
Speaker 3:I mean, I don't know what gives you that impression.
Speaker 2:No, because every time going out for dinner, food is life.
Speaker 3:Yeah, food is life. Food and wine.
Speaker 1:God bless stretchy pants I don't think it's that like we laugh and joke about it, but I think Amy's right, it's about that connectivity piece and you cannot beat. You cannot beat bonding with a group over breaking bread together.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's my absolute favourite thing. It's a beautiful thing to do yes, 100%.
Speaker 3:And when you look back at all of that stuff and where I am now's like I mean I could literally bore you to death for hours about that windy journey it has been. I have done so many things and tried so many things. I literally I've been homeless a number of times. Uh, not in the kind of sleeping on a cardboard box, you know, in a street kind of way, but at university, when you would get to the summer holidays, everybody would go home but my dad had remarried and moved away. I literally had nowhere to go so I would sofa surf, yeah. And then I realized getting a job as a holiday rep was much more fun, so I would work as a holiday rep through the summer why did you go?
Speaker 3:I did, I didn't know oh I could totally see you doing this, I loved it, I was living my best life, and so, whilst other people might say trauma, these things happen to you. I was just vibing with opportunity and I not not from being in a place of uh, therapy or mindset training or just I. I kind of ended university on the Friday, thought, oh my goodness, I don't have a plan, and then went, pivot, I'll go and do this. Yeah, and they always touch wood and, thank you god, I just always landed on my feet and had the best time attitude and mindset, though, isn't it it?
Speaker 3:really sounds like you refuse to be a victim in every single one of those circumstances or it was never as bad as it could have been, yeah, so I don't feel like, when I look back on my life, I really don't think I've had incredible hardship. Yeah, but I also have had it far from easy.
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah. So then, what was your first business?
Speaker 3:So I finished my degree and I got a job teaching and about three weeks into teaching I thought I don't know, teaching beauty or teaching school?
Speaker 2:No, teaching science. Oh right, the subject you hated the subject I hated. Yeah, yeah, because I got a degree in it, so I've got to do something with this.
Speaker 3:I mean, this is supposed to be what you do when you're a grown-up, right? And also the real reason I took the job as a teacher is I was still homeless and I needed to find somewhere. So I needed a proper pay and, where I'd always done these little jobs, I needed a proper career. So I got a teaching job to get a mortgage and I bought my first house 45 grand. Thank you very much. How outrageous tiny little. I mean. It's now the size of my garage, yes, but it's that was my first investment as a grown-up and I hated teaching and I.
Speaker 3:This was the thought process I need to go, I just need to be in a salon. But I've outgrown, you know, I've managed, I've done all these things. I just need my own. I'll buy one. I had no money and my parents had no money and I was. I've just three months into a teaching career, so I literally.
Speaker 3:I'm so I'm, I'm in, I'm so invested in this story like I'm gonna be like mouth open, like tell me more, debbie, please keep it going I literally pounded the pavements of the high street banks at the time and and I, I went in and most of them laughed me out the door and, um, with my little project pack. Oh, hilariously, my salon was going to be called wait for it the clinic, I mean, god bless. The manager who went oh, it sounds a little bit like where you'd go after a dodgy holiday. Um, so I changed, I changed the title and I met this incredible um bank manager, a woman who who listened to my brain vomit and went because of everything you've been through and everything you've done and your life experience, and she said I really think you've got something here. I really want to help you. However, we just can't lend to somebody like you. It's it's too risky. You don't have any. I got this house, but I was 120 mortgage um. And she said but, leave it with me, let me see what I can do.
Speaker 3:And it just turned out that the government had a scheme at that time where they would lend to people. I love that. She gave me the list. She was like have you ever been in prison? I was like no, uh, do you have any disabilities? Nope, do you? There was, there were three or four things. And I was like, oh, I just don't meet these criteria. And she said have you, within the last year, completed a university degree? I said yes, yes, I have. And she said I think we can get you in under this scheme. So the bank agreed to lend me a hundred percent of the money.
Speaker 3:I bought my first business for thirty thousand pounds. Uh, it was a uh small hair salon with three team members and it turned over I don't know twenty thousand pounds a year. It I mean, it was small, yes, and I turned up on day one, day before christmas eve, because it had taken so long to go through. Key in my hand, fiver in my bank account. I, no lies, yeah, turned the key in that door, spoke to these people who kind of looked to me as if who is this child who thinks they're going to run this business?
Speaker 3:Because they were all twice my age and you know long in the tooth of experience and I have never been more scared than I was on that day where I thought I've now got a business loan that is nearly as big as my mortgage. The house was 45 grand, my business was 30 grand. I had no safety net, my parents, nobody, had been to university. Nobody had money, nobody had run a business. I had never had a mentor, I did not know how to run a business, but I just kind of had a feeling that it was going to be really fun but you had this belief yeah this is so cool.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and was that? The salon that you turn like turned into your three salon business?
Speaker 3:yeah, so we we are arcana. Oh um it.
Speaker 3:Well, the funny story behind the name is I, because I literally knew nothing about business one word name just putting one word name beginning with an, a, and someone in marketing said to me if you come up with a, you've got a paper letter, if you've got your signage, so a short word's better, and if it begins with a, whenever you're on a list of anything, you get the first opportunity. I was like what great idea literally went through the dictionary. Arcana means a secret or mystery in old english.
Speaker 3:I love it that's a really cool note sadly I sold it with the business, so I'm hoping at one stage in the future I can get it back. Yeah, um and I. The first couple of years I had such enormous success like now. I look back and I just laugh. I literally have 50 pound notes in bedside drawers and in handbags and driving four by fours with designer handbags.
Speaker 3:And who did? I think I was, but I had to zero grip on my finances in the business because I'd never in my life had money. Yeah, and now I suddenly had loads of money, but I didn't know what to do with it or how to make it.
Speaker 2:I wasted so much money so what drove that money, though? How did it go from 20 grand to then you driving your four by fours with your fancy handbags?
Speaker 3:because I was a really good people person yeah, so.
Speaker 2:So it was building the reputation.
Speaker 3:Reputation, build the best team ever. And I know people say you know, when you go to work, you want it to feel like family and other people say that's dysfunctional, it should not feel like family. But it totally did feel like family in the early days and I think my optimum staffing level was 8 in the one premises early days. Yeah, and I think my optimum staffing level was eight in the one premises and um, I had 47 staff in one premises by the time I had reached the peak. So that was when I loved it and I was in it every day and we had fun and it was amazing and you were doing beauty so I started off by introducing beauty into the hair business.
Speaker 3:So that was my um contribution, if you like, to the income. Um, very quickly we got very busy. We built a second beauty room and I then was on the desk. I was front of house really from year two, so I I didn't really do treatments for very long, but it was the team and me and our dynamic and the culture we set um and I loved good people and and gravitated towards incredible people and they would come in and make magic in the salon. And then we never paid to advertise. We never.
Speaker 2:We never needed didn't need to, because it's just a vibe, isn't it? People want to be part of it with or without you yes yes, so true we're having the time of our lives.
Speaker 3:Come along for the ride if you want yeah, and with that then comes a lot of press and coverage and the the imposter syndrome I felt from I knew nothing about business. To you are the young, because I was still under 30, you are the young poster child of women were not running businesses back in the early 2000s? Yeah, I was quite. It was quite unusual, um, and yet to me I was just doing what I'd done for the last 10 years, which was winging it, having fun and just sticking with it if it was good and leaving it if it was bad. There's no plan, no strategy and no help. I didn't reach out to anyone.
Speaker 2:So when did the second salon come in?
Speaker 3:If I'm honest, it's all a bit blurry. I'm not good with dates. I think we were year six and I had already done two refurbs to expand the existing business. We were already open seven days a week, 12 hours a day. We had an enormous team and we were still turning people away. Now business coach me would go raise your prices, yeah. But at the time I was like we need bigger sites. So I invested in a second salon. Uh, it was the biggest investment I'd ever made personally.
Speaker 2:It was 80 000 pounds worth of refurbishment was it like a brand new, no build, or was it an existing an?
Speaker 3:existing salon that had done really badly. Um invested 80 000 pounds into the renovation and three months later we had a catastrophic flood. Um, on a friday night we had a burst pipe and then we came in and found the we'd lost all our ceilings. Um, and that journey of we'd had an incredible high press launch and we were fully booked for months to then we have to close everything. Luckily I was insured and covered and again it's kind of nothing was as bad as it could have been.
Speaker 3:But I found it really hard to bounce back from that and the team I lost a lot of team in that time because they couldn't just wait for everything to be rebuilt and so we had all this momentum and energy running up to the launch and it always felt a bit cursed after that. And then, after three or four years of trying to make that work, I thought that actually it's the location and the premises. So I looked for a third. We were about to open the third and we hit the double dip recession. Um, so I'm so, so lucky we got right up to signing and, uh, and I never went in and we I nearly lost everything, including my house wow, that's incredible.
Speaker 1:So up until that point of buying the third and being so close to it, what help had you had along the way? Is it still?
Speaker 3:zero, zero, and not because I was arrogant and didn't need help. I just didn't know that people got help. I didn't know that there was help available, yeah. And so I was just wildly going well, we'll try this, and if that doesn't work, we'll try something else. And I think what I'd learn from everything I've been through is there's always another way, even when something epically fails like no one.
Speaker 2:No one died yeah, you say that a lot all the time. Yeah, it's our mantra. Nobody died, we can find a solution.
Speaker 3:Everything's figureoutable yeah, as you're sobbing in the shower tray over the latest VAT bill, that you have no idea how to pay.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So then what happened after that? So you went to buy number three, pulled out, pulled out, double-dip recession.
Speaker 3:I then realised that I needed to. The only way I was going to continue was to get help and to find what was I doing it for, because I'd had a lot of fun. But I'd suddenly now realized, wasn't all rainbows?
Speaker 3:it wasn't all fun actually this, you know, shizzle got real yeah um, and because I had almost lost everything through absolute poor financial planning. The the businesses were thriving, I was just rubbish at managing my cash flow. Yeah, and I realized that, because of the double dip recession, lending was hard to come by. Yes, so nobody wanted to help me. Yeah, and suddenly, when I decided I needed help and I reached out, I couldn't access anything. Yeah, so I I reached out to my accountant. He was really the first person that I was really honest with and said got myself in a bit of a pickle here, I don't really know what to do. And I remember when he opened, because back in those days you used to rock up at the end of the year with a carrier bag full of paperwork any accountant do that.
Speaker 3:back in the day they were mad to do that. So he only really knew what happened a year ago, not what was going on currently. And he said, debbie, we need to work closer together. And we sat down and we had a good look at it and at this point I also had a recruitment agency for the hair and beauty industry.
Speaker 2:Yes, of course.
Speaker 3:I was working with the National hair federation, as it was then. Yeah, um, I was coaching, so I was spinning an awful lot of plates. Yeah, um, driven by things that made me feel good about myself, things that solved my problems none of them with a, this is going to make me money. Um, and I started to look, with his help, at planning return on investment and I realized that 80% of what I was doing in my business was killing my business. What a guy. Oh, he's in my life today.
Speaker 2:Is he?
Speaker 1:Yeah he does all our family businesses now still.
Speaker 3:Yeah, incredible. And he gave me some real harsh truth and he said I know you are really proud of having multiple salon sites, but we were still chewing over the third one. And he said um, can I give you some brutal honesty? And I love that he asked my permission and I said, please do.
Speaker 3:And he said when you, when you look at everything other than this, this big business, the core arcana salon, if you look at everything else you're doing, do you love them enough that, if they did, if there was no money involved, if they were just hobbies, would you still do them? And I kind of laughed and went god, no. And he said that is what you're doing. They're not bringing you in any money. He said it's like you're playing monopoly with these. You're handing over money left and right. Yeah, you're not making any money. Yeah, he said. And actually, when I look into the future, you're never going to make money because of what they are what you do, etc.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and it was the hardest thing to hear and I cried for a week but it was the best thing and I just, in the end, I walked away from the business. I didn't even sell it, I just closed the doors with the salon, yeah, oh, really number two yeah, I moved um.
Speaker 3:So at the same time, personally, I was having a lot of challenges. I'd just come out of an eight-year relationship and and had really low self-esteem and I just felt like I couldn't do it anymore and my dad said look, let me take over the main salon so that I can just leave you to deal with all that stuff. Yeah, and also sort your personal situation out, because I was homeless again.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And so it was kind of how do you now rebuild with what you've learned and what you know? And outwardly nobody in the world knew this was going on.
Speaker 2:Everyone thought I was award winning. Yeah, Super successful. Funny isn't?
Speaker 3:it was going on everyone thought I was, yeah, award winning, yeah, super successful. Uh, again I thought, crikey, if anybody takes a peek behind this curtain, I'm finished. Nobody can know the depths of the debt and the inability to manage I mean my team, the some of the things they put up with in terms of being paid late and checks bouncing, and it was horrible, yeah not, not a time I'm proud of, but I needed it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, you needed to learn those lessons, didn't you? Yeah, early on as well, because there was bigger things for you yeah there was a bigger, bigger plan for you we talked about like the universe and things happening at the right time. I just think you needed to learn that early doors.
Speaker 3:Yeah, 100%. And very soon after that I met my now husband. Life needed a bit more balance and I realised I'd created this. Actually, the first lesson is that what I realised by cutting off all the extra stuff is that when I put all of those people into one place, I could more than halve my outgoings but double my profit.
Speaker 1:And I was like why didn't I do this before?
Speaker 3:Because I was driven by vanity and egometrics, not by profit.
Speaker 2:Look what I've got, look what I've achieved.
Speaker 3:Yeah, with my empty bank account, and suddenly I realised I could turn over a million pounds a year with a third of the cost and do half of the work yeah. So yeah, tiffany, yeah um, and I wish I had learned that less than 10 years earlier. But you can't you can't?
Speaker 2:no, no, you needed to learn it then, but also that's the information you help other people learn, isn't it? Yeah yeah, absolutely, and I remember you telling me that, and I think this is. I don't know who advised you this or whether it was you, but you told me that each salon was a different limited company in itself, so that one didn't affect the other there.
Speaker 3:There are various reasons for doing it, and it's all about tax planning genius rather than tax evasion. Yeah, it's a very fine line.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but it was genius, because ours was all under one and I think ever since you said that, I've always thought, oh, like I need to keep my businesses separate. As long as they are totally separate companies, yeah, yeah and so I.
Speaker 3:Our barbers was me and my husband, the main salon was me and my dad, I mean they didn't have an active role, but that you know they were. They were there to separate those, those businesses, and if anything happened to me, I'm an only child, you know, I had no children and there would be a legacy route for it.
Speaker 3:But yeah and I think it's having those very honest conversations with successful business owners is the things that you kind of go. I didn't. I could do that. Yeah, applying for a grant by renting an office in a, because that grant is for a postcode, so you can take a rented office there and suddenly be eligible for a 25 grand grant why would you not do it? Yeah, so I'm like.
Speaker 2:Is that illegal?
Speaker 3:that's perfectly legitimate if that's your legitimate office. So you've you've got to be in the rooms to have those conversations to learn just the little little things that help wow.
Speaker 2:So then how long did you focus on that one salon, the main salon afterwards?
Speaker 3:so when we had gone back into the one salon, um, very shortly after that, my dad passed away quite suddenly and although he had never had an active role in running the business apart from taking the cash to the bank, um, he had always been the person I spoke to about everything, and business can feel very lonely and when he died I remember my my salon manager, who had been my number two throughout all of this. She's the only person I'd let in and been honest with um in between. When he died and the funeral, she handed in her notice and I remember thinking we were really good friends. Why would you do this to me? And it wasn't about me.
Speaker 3:She had something going on. Her life it's with her and she. She said to me I'm so sorry to do this to you now but again, actually it was the best thing that could have happened to me because suddenly I had to think differently, behave differently and I realized I wanted to sell the salon. And now I look back and I think I must have had a bit of a midlife crisis. With dad dying, her going, I suddenly thought I don't want to. I don't want to play anymore yeah, but in my head.
Speaker 3:I thought you can't have done all this for nothing. So suddenly it became a profit beast. Everything I did was about how much money can I make? Take and sell this for, and that was when I really got deep into coaching yeah, so it's action coach, wasn't it that helped you?
Speaker 2:yeah, I'm emerson pattern still in touch with him now yeah I didn't realize it was emerson.
Speaker 1:Yeah, oh God.
Speaker 3:I know Emerson Incredible, Incredible fella and he was an action coach at the time. Now he's got a different business and he how I had not done this from day one. I don't know, and I know that action coach is very Marmite, but I blooming loved it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I thrived on the structure, Because you needed processes and structures right at that time.
Speaker 3:And also I needed somebody to be so obsessed with profit because I wasn't, I was like I want it to feel nice and I want to enjoy. And he was like tell me how much this is going to make you. And I needed that to transition into what was we were knocking on for a million pound a year turnover.
Speaker 2:That is massive for a salon. It's huge and very unusual in one tiny little high street.
Speaker 1:Yeah, back we're not back street we're a high street but in a tiny village, yeah, yeah absolutely amazing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that is high revenue considering most salons equivalent.
Speaker 3:About getting to the bat threshold yeah, that is mammoth yeah and that was nearly 10 years ago, yeah, so I didn't realize at the time how epic it was yeah um, and there are times now I wish I hadn't sold it, because I now know that there are other ways that I could have done that and stayed connected, but I didn't know any of that stuff then.
Speaker 2:So then Emerson helped you profit first, get lean and sell. Yes, and that was your goal.
Speaker 3:And that was my goal. How long did?
Speaker 2:that process take.
Speaker 3:Two years.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 3:And I was in talks with the landlord about taking on the unit next door because in my head it was sell or grow, go big. And I was talking to the landlord about taking the unit next door and doubling up and the choice was do I reinvest to go bigger or do I exit? And I remember speaking to the same accountant and he said to me you're never going to get that figure for your business. And I said why not? He said I just don't think that people pay that money for salons. They did a million pound turnover.
Speaker 3:I'm sure they, they will and I think this is the thing is nobody had ever grown. Yeah, a million pound turnover, 43 staff at that point. Yeah, uh, business in melton keen. So he'd never seen it and so I put it on the market, to cite his advice challenge accepted.
Speaker 1:Thank you, it's a bit of a theme in my life.
Speaker 3:Yeah, oh, you think I can't do that Let me show you the way. So I went and put it on the market. I had an offer within three days and I sold Amazing.
Speaker 1:For the asking price. How did that feel, debbie?
Speaker 3:at the time, amazing, in the moment that I got the offer, when the money hit my bank account and I had to tell the team it hit my bank account and I had to tell the team. It was the hardest, hardest day of my life, because they're your family and you're basically walking away from them and I'm lying to them yeah, horrendous oh, I'm sorry to be feeling it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I would.
Speaker 3:I can only imagine what that would feel like and then they, they felt as though, because this would be going on for months, yeah, and I'd never, I'd never told anyone, because I knew that I could only sell that business for that amount of money if it was as good on that day as it was, as I said it was.
Speaker 2:You had to keep it quiet.
Speaker 3:And actually they proper hated me for about 24 hours and then they were wonderful and I'm still in touch with many of them now. And the guy who bought it I'd chosen because he just sounded like he was really passionate about the team and the energy and the culture. Sadly, uh didn't end up being that way, um, but I really felt like I'd put it into safe, good hands. And then I I felt really empty because all I had known for 17 years was working in that business and I had no social life. I had no children, I had no husband I'd only just got married so we had no life other than working.
Speaker 2:Because they were your family and your friends, right yeah.
Speaker 1:And that was kind of like taken away right yeah, by choice.
Speaker 3:But you didn't very well. But again, visioning, I had never imagined what it would be like to get there.
Speaker 1:So what? What did that day one look like?
Speaker 3:I. I ate a lot of crisps in my pants.
Speaker 2:I watched a lot of trash telly oh, is that self-soothing day from your dreams? I'm right, so much it is like grief, yeah, yeah and then I thought what have I done?
Speaker 3:that was my income and suddenly I had no plan, no income I mean, I had a beautiful chunk of money in the bank, but I wanted to invest that into property, so do you pay tax on that?
Speaker 2:do you have to pay? Tax on the sale because I thought I was talking to someone the other day. The only reason I'm asking is I thought if it was a going, you sold it as a going concern. You don't have to pay.
Speaker 3:So I'll be honest, I'm not an accountant and I don't remember the nuts and bolts of it, but I remember there were a lot more bills than I'd planned for, yeah. So, yeah, you pay an awful lot out. I mean, yeah, you pay the the salary at the end of the month after. I mean that's a big chunk. Yeah, 43 people yeah so, because it's a month in lieu, of course, yeah, and then you pay your vat bill yeah, for the everything and then you pay your corporation tax and then you're on your profits.
Speaker 3:Your profits are high because you've just.
Speaker 2:So yeah, it was I do remember it sounds like a lot.
Speaker 3:It's like I'm watering amount of yeah which is why wealth planning is so important. Didn't know about that at the time, um, and then I had decided that we were going to invest in property, so the money then was just gone. So suddenly I had no business and no cash because it was all going to be invested. And I, three days later, I just thought what have I done? Biggest mistake of my life, how do I move forward? And I rang Emerson and said do you know anybody that could use my skills? Could you pick me out for?
Speaker 2:any, I'll do it. We've got to this point and now I don't know what to do.
Speaker 3:Yeah, hurrah, oh so everyone I knew was like oh my god, you must be so proud. And knew was like oh my God, you must be so proud. And I was like I'm just so glad I did no job. What am I going to do? My purpose gone. And my best friend, my chief bridesmaid and best friend, sally, had been through the NatWest Accelerator and she said I've seen an advert for a job coaching Hilarious, I was not a qualified coach. She said I know you've helped other business owners, so why don't you take a look? And I went in and found like I've. I felt like I found my people. I just loved it from the second I walked in.
Speaker 1:Is that sharon?
Speaker 3:penny yeah yeah, yeah well, penny wasn't there at that. At that point, uh, it was a lady called Jodie who lives in Bedford. She's still in my network, jodie, and Sharon and Dale gave me the job and never looked back, loved it. How long have you been there now? Nearly six and a half years.
Speaker 2:Wow.
Speaker 3:And everyone said you'll never be able to work for a corporate after running your own business. But I don't know he's kind of watching.
Speaker 2:You'll get the best of both worlds but you'll get the best of both worlds because you're working with founders. You love this, don't you? So much what do you love most about it?
Speaker 3:oh crikey, without sounding too Oprah. I genuinely feel like there is not a week that goes by where I don't. That sounds really anal. Go on, okay, I'm gonna say it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we can cut it out if it's bad.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah I don't feel like there's a week goes by where I don't literally change somebody's life that's incredible, I feel it yeah, I can see you feel it, but it's the right thing to say I think you've checked this first, say you've changed up.
Speaker 1:Well, I can only speak for myself. You changed my life.
Speaker 2:You changed my perception. Is it for the better when I end up with you forever? I don't know what a bit Surprise. Look who you're going to have in your life forever and ever and ever, uh-oh.
Speaker 1:I think you're just incredible.
Speaker 3:You're an incredible coach and you, like I said at the start.
Speaker 1:There are so brutal sometimes.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I learned that from sharon really fluffing hard sometimes, yeah, yeah, there was a few times I was like okay, tell me how you really feel true serum anyone?
Speaker 1:no, oh no I think that's good yeah, but and you know when to when to push and when not to like that's but I always found.
Speaker 2:I don't know if you found this, but I was like the top of the chain in my business, always have been, and no one's ever told me that I'm wrong because it's my decisions so then, when I met you, I'm like oh, I'm actually like I love that you were wrong.
Speaker 3:I've never told you you were wrong, but I love how it landed, yeah it wasn't there.
Speaker 2:No, it wasn't like I was a skeptic, it was a have you thought about doing something different? I wasn't always right. Yeah, and it was good. That's exactly what I needed at that time, for sure so in my mind.
Speaker 1:One of your. What I remember vividly about our cohort was your ability to help us understand our mindset and how to adapt and adjust that based on your personality, the way that you learn. Do you love that part of what you do like? How big is mindset for you in the NatWest journey and with your coaching and with what you're doing now?
Speaker 3:great question. So NatWest content made me look really good, like I really knew what I was talking about. No, we. I had never thought of it as mindset before I joined NatWest. It was just what life had presented me with, what I needed to do, and that there was no other way than being so tenacious and so focused. Yeah, if you want it, go and get it, and if you don't want it enough, you won't do it. And I think what I saw in the first cohort of people I coached was you could really tell the people who were going to get it regardless and when I say regardless, even if it was the wrong thing to do, they were going to get it regardless and the ones who had the most brilliant idea but were never going to get it regardless.
Speaker 3:And when I say regardless, even if it was the wrong thing to do, they were going to get it regardless. And the ones who had the most brilliant idea but were never going to get there, yeah, and then there was a bunch of people in the middle that were my tribe it was kind of a I will listen, I will look at the data, I will make the decisions based on xyz, but if it's right, I will get it.
Speaker 3:And that bunch of people is is the 80 percent that that really do well on the program? And? And so to go back to your question, I, because of my background in medical biology, I loved the science and the psychology of neuroplasticity, and so I get that. Mindset is a choice. It's a muscle you've got to work on. Yeah, but it also helped me to really understand why I had always done what I'd done. Yeah, because I I had an amazing growth mindset. Um, and to your earlier point, did you ever feel like a victim? Was that a choice? No one ever told me that was an option. I'd never met anybody who had opted out. Yeah, and so I think when you grow up watching Madonna and Margaret Thatcher, you do feel like you can do anything and be anything you want, and that's the power of role models yeah, did.
Speaker 3:Your dad instill that in you as well, though um, my dad was a very didn't want, didn't expect much from the world, didn't want a lot. He was a very didn't want, didn't expect much from the world, didn't want a lot. He was a very simple man and so he never really understood my desire to want more, do more, have more, be more, and that really scared him. He just wanted me to be happy. And my mum, who is still in my life and I love dearly she's a wonderful woman, but she had only ever wanted me to get married and have children, yeah, and so anything other than that was inverted commas a failure. Yeah, and she didn't understand why I would do all this and put myself through this and not go for coffee mornings and have a name chat, find yourself a hell out of me it's generational change though as well isn't it?
Speaker 1:and like pushing through the barriers that maybe that generation, as a generalized view, weren't used to doing. It didn't feel like they could.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think it's very interesting, but the more I met beauty owners or hair owners who said when I go into a room of business owners I feel inferior. Or I would talk to women who say well, when I go into a room, men don't take me seriously. And I just at that point thought did.
Speaker 3:I not get the memo because there is no room I go into where I don't feel like I deserve to be there and I realized I was in the minority of feeling like that and I thought I I need more people to feel this fearless and courageous because actually I'm not getting any backlash, even on social media. I didn't have any.
Speaker 1:Oh God, I've opened myself up now.
Speaker 3:There's not haters. I don't get any snidey comments. There's no downside of being bold and daring, and I think it's because it comes from a place of authenticity and candor and experience. How would you deal with? It?
Speaker 2:comes from a place of authenticity and candor, yeah, and experience how would you deal with it, though, if you did get it, it's?
Speaker 3:block and delete.
Speaker 2:There we go then. So you're not even giving it the energy you're not even welcoming it into your space. It's like don't need that it's not yeah see, I worry about that. I worry a lot about opening myself up to the world and to have people like on socials, especially like the backlash of you're wrong, you shouldn't be saying this, or whatever but you're trailblazing as well, aren't you?
Speaker 2:so you're, you're going against the tide that's, that's the challenge and disruptive yeah but it is disruptive and I'm like, oh, I'll just stay in my lane and look after what I know, rather than that. But I need more Debbie Lewis energy yeah, I'm already.
Speaker 3:I'm'm starting to sense we can make progress on that.
Speaker 2:But only if it's what you want. Yeah, it is. Yeah, I need to block and delete. I need to take a stance on that, for sure.
Speaker 3:And I think a lot of what holds us back is fear of rejection fear of failure? Yeah, 100%, and the more I learn about the psychology of that and people's drivers, the more I'm determined that the more we have conversations about it and the more we see people share their stories of success and failure, the more progress we can make.
Speaker 2:It's really important, isn't?
Speaker 1:it. What are your greatest drivers? What are the things that you do now that make your heart absolutely sing? What do you love about what you're doing?
Speaker 3:um, I guess it's not legacy in its truest sense. I don't have children and and whilst I never thought I wouldn't have children, I was not a. I'm not a maternal person. I would much rather have a dog than a, than a child to look after. But I have no legacy.
Speaker 3:I'm not passing anything down and it's not important to me that there's a statue of me or that I've written books, but what is important is that me being here on Earth has served some sort of purpose, made a difference. And I also think the more I do what I do and the more people give me the feedback. I mean I can't tell you the number of times that I've got off a stage presenting and somebody will come over in tears and say I so needed to hear that. And I just think there is. So I am not special. What I do is so ordinary. Special what I do is so ordinary. So I just think, crikey, if there were more people like me doing that stuff and other people could feel that thing, what beautiful ripple effects that would cause well, you've got some goosebumps I'm tearing up.
Speaker 1:I think you are I know you disagree with you to hear you say you're not special because you're so special to us and we have spent if you think about the time that we've actually spent together, it's relatively short and you've made a huge impact Six whole hours, yeah on both our lives.
Speaker 3:That's just this podcast.
Speaker 1:So I totally see you as a beacon of light and absolute inspiration. I just want to see more of it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, really, selfishly, I want to see you on stage looking after businesses and like leading people, making them feel more confident in themselves, giving them that block and delete energy. Like, because you are such a leader of positive vibes Like follow me, guys, let's go and have the best time of our lives. And I'm like, I'm in, I'm in, let's go there, we've got no plan it's done on a wing and a prayer but who cares, because it's going to be great.
Speaker 1:You are an incredible leader like incredible yeah the best of all that you could possibly imagine. And that's not me just blowing smoke. That's genuine, and that is the energy that you create to the people that you're presenting just blowing smoke. That's genuine, and that is the energy that you create to the people that you're presenting, to the people that you coach with and the stages that you stand on you are epic, I'm coming back.
Speaker 2:That is exactly the same energy that founders need isn't it.
Speaker 3:I've definitely found my calling yeah, I love what I do with all my heart. Long may it continue. I don't think I'll ever do anything else. I can't see me ever working outside the small business support arena in whatever guise that looks like, and I do love a stage.
Speaker 2:You do love a stage, I love a stage and you're really really shizzling good at it.
Speaker 3:Thanks so much.
Speaker 1:If I'm'm honest, I don't know, I don't know what's next I.
Speaker 3:I am super grateful for the platform that the work with nat west provides me the opportunities to go and speak on incredible stages in front of thousands of people. I love the work I'm doing with women in business and I never thought that would be my niche because I actively repelled women in business stuff when I was in business. I love supporting underrepresented voices. I think that's my bag, but I don't know. I've got to finish building this house, house what topics do you talk about on stage?
Speaker 2:is there anything in particular? Is it just whatever?
Speaker 3:um mostly mindset, um confidence, yeah, um communication building, team investment, the landscape of funding and finance for investment wise for me.
Speaker 2:I think the conversations we've had about investment or what I've learned at netwest made me look at investment in very, very different light. It is fascinating, but I think it from a female founder. I need to hear it from a fellow female founder yeah and see it and see it. Yeah, I need to know what my options are, rather than because it takes that intimidation away, doesn't it?
Speaker 3:yeah, and just know what my options are, rather than because it takes that intimidation away, doesn't it? Yeah, and you know crazily that a lot of the female founders that I work with who have successfully raised don't want to talk about it. Why? Why is that fear of judgement, feeling that they didn't get there in a traditional route and they'll be judged, that they hate that they had to go and ask for money.
Speaker 1:Shall we go and get investment and then talk about it For what? I don't care what we do it for but, let's go and share it For what Ruth?
Speaker 2:Yeah, we need to find a sponsor first of all. Right disclaimer.
Speaker 3:You should always make investment decisions based on accurate financial.
Speaker 1:I'm not a chartered banker. This is like disclaimer number three of the year yes, yeah absolutely should we put it in? The show notes. I'd love to do that, though wouldn't you get investment for wild mood? Well, no, just get investment for something and then be able to talk about it in a way that is accessible relative and breaks down barriers with somebody with much more fun.
Speaker 2:The thought of getting investment on my own I'm a bit like well, let's just do it for wild moose.
Speaker 1:We need a poddy studio, don't we?
Speaker 3:but you've, you've borrowed money to grow your business.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I've borrowed from that west.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and, and when I was in business, I thought the only way you grew a business was to go to a bank and ask for money. And well, now I understand that actually, the pound that you get from an investor can be so much more powerful than a bank pound nothing wrong with a bank pound but you'll get the knowledge.
Speaker 3:Yeah, the knowledge, the connections yeah um, but also the accountability, because often when you borrow money from you know insert lender here, yeah, it's faceless and you kind of go well, if I can't pay it back. It's a limited company, yeah, but if you borrowed money from a person you've, you've got to look at them.
Speaker 2:Yeah, in the eye that's a really good point, because that's the relationship I have with my business partner, because she invested but we went in equally, yeah, and then went to the bank to get the other half sharing a business gives me shudders.
Speaker 2:I don't think I could do partnership I couldn't do it as a normal partnership where someone else is running the business, but then I feel like I miss that. When you see business partners that are doing it together, that hash it out together, I'm like I really miss that. I really feel like I'm missing it. Um, however, the beauty of it is that Helen is in the sidelines. She calls herself a dozing partner. She's like I will do all the books, you do the payroll calculations, I will post payroll, I'll do all the VAT returns, I'll do everything you need from an accountant and I will help you, but I don't want to participate in the operation.
Speaker 1:It's a really good one, but you have clear lanes.
Speaker 2:We have very clear lanes and I still, even though I can make all the decisions I don't, I will still go to her like so, helen, what do you think about this? And although she's an accountant and she generally look financially is quite risk averse, but she's really gung-ho and if I'm like I've got this idea, what do you think? She's like yeah, let's just do it just do it, why not?
Speaker 1:What have we got to lose? And I need that, so I don't go to her loads.
Speaker 2:We have a conversation every week in a little cat chat. But yeah, she normally tells me what is really happening, you know, gives me the accountancy bad news. So, I'm like, oh, blah, blah, blah.
Speaker 3:I thought we could do this. She's like no, no money. We all need one of those people we do.
Speaker 2:So it is a really good Jing and Yang. But she is very adamant. She doesn't want investment at the minute but you know, as we scale and grow it might change.
Speaker 3:Yeah, what about you, nicole? Oh, investment, what would you put your investment towards?
Speaker 1:Oh, something I don't know. I don't. I tell you, what I need most right now in my business is to be released away from the in so I can work on the on time task freedom yeah so I buy up some of that time. Yeah, so that I put more superheroes, yeah, potentially more superheroes.
Speaker 2:Process automation.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, first step and then scale up. But that's terrifying because I feel like I have been fanning around having a business and having babies and trying to desperately make them work together and now hope is one. I'm going right come the fudge on Bridget.
Speaker 2:Shizzles got real. Yeah, you do. I don't think when you've got that first year of baby, I don't think you can give it. Your all in business anyway, and I know what that feels like. When you're coming out the other side, you're like oh yeah, I really need to focus on this. This is.
Speaker 1:I've been coasting for a while now I just feel like there's epicness. You know how you were saying earlier, the? You know in your bones that something's coming, that something's changing, that it's evolving, that's happening and I'm making the steps towards that. But I've just needed to stop fannying around and get on.
Speaker 3:There is greatness in all of us.
Speaker 2:There really is, isn't?
Speaker 1:there, for sure.
Speaker 2:What are you excited about in your future?
Speaker 3:um, I feel as though I feel like I've lived a hundred years already in the amount of things I've done and experienced, but I feel like I'm only just getting started.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's good, isn't it?
Speaker 1:yeah, I feel excited like a little bit nervous, but also super excited.
Speaker 3:I feel like I could do anything, but I've just got to decide what I want to do. So yeah, watch this space you are bloody amazing, isn't she?
Speaker 2:I just love that attitude. We need to all embody a little bit of DL. Yeah, there we go. Thanks, you literally can go, I can do anything, I just don't know what it is, yet but let's keep it real.
Speaker 3:This is the highlights of a good day having a professional podcast conversation. There are still days when I lay in bed way past the time I should have got up crying into my pillow about the uncertainties of you know what's what's ahead and decision making and financial risk, of you know what's what's ahead and decision making and financial risk. And it's not that when I, when I say these words, they sound easy and everybody should just live by this mantra and you know it's, it's all happiness but, actually it's.
Speaker 3:There are so many tough days still. It's not easy and you don't always make the right decisions, you don't always say the right thing you don't always give people the right stuff that they need to hear, um, but as long as you're doing your best, yeah, and you keep going and you listen to the feedback and you're self-aware, you can't do any more do you have a mentor?
Speaker 3:um, I have mentors for different aspects of my life. So I have a property mentor, I have a professional speaking uh mentor and I I have got coaches in my friendship group who mentor me more than they know you can never hang up the um hook.
Speaker 1:How would you say that you can never hang up the coat of a coach?
Speaker 3:I imagine, yeah, we go out and I'll say something and Penny's amazing and Penny will go can I just play that back to you? And I go ooh, she's come to me and I love it. I love that they challenge me yeah.
Speaker 2:It's important to have people in your world like that isn't it so important People have?
Speaker 2:those conversations with are a lot of things that are on, you know instagram memes that are very throwaway, but actually a lot of them have true meaning, so that you are the product of the people you surround yourself with and the conversation is different when you're, when you're with high performers, and I honestly think your network and the people you spend your time with is the biggest game changer yeah, I agree, because I've made huge changes since me and Nicole have been spending lots of time together, because before it was just like a dog walk, you know, in Covid or whatever. Yeah, since we've spent time together and we've spoken daily, I feel like I've leveled up. Yes, I feel like my focus is I'm on fire so we're be working together now.
Speaker 2:So she's doing all the start-up marketing for us for new salon launches.
Speaker 1:And they're talking to ITV this afternoon.
Speaker 2:She's going to be on telly.
Speaker 1:She's got real On telly yeah, thank you.
Speaker 3:Make sure you've got your contracts in agreement.
Speaker 2:But I think, when you are with people that want the best for you and want to see you succeed, are that are your cheerleaders, that you can go as far, as it's the belief and that's the true value of entrepreneurial communities.
Speaker 3:Yeah, suddenly you're around people who make you feel like you can and that they want you to win. And on the days where you are crying, they'll comfort you, and probably they've been through something similar yeah you just got to find your tribe so important, isn't it?
Speaker 2:and when you're in that beginning stage of founders, new startup, I know we all know how lonely that is, don't we? And that's why we've done this, isn't?
Speaker 3:it, so we can help people as many people as we can just like you're not alone in your ears making you laugh sometimes and if you're somebody who, whenever you go into those environments, you get comparisonitis and it and it paralyzes, you get a coach to overcome that. Because there are people who don't thrive in those environments because they feel like everybody else is winning, everybody else is doing better than them and actually that causes them to shrink because, they feel like they're failing, if that resonates with you and you think, well, I don't get that when I go, then get a coach, get through those blockers.
Speaker 1:Yeah, how do you find what would be your best tips for finding the right coach for you as an individual?
Speaker 2:It's difficult, isn't?
Speaker 1:it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, if I'm honest, I don't think that there is a tick box exercise you can do to get you. You've got to kiss a lot of frogs.
Speaker 3:It's like dating isn't it yeah, have discovery calls, but I also think uh, controversially that coaches are there for a season or a reason. If you've, you should only use a coach when you need something or you've recognized that you are not where you want to be, and they can help you navigate that. Otherwise, I think being surrounded by peers who are in a similar situation, with similar growth aspirations, can be really powerful. You don't know what you need, you don't know what you don't know, but I think having access and continually seeking out next level mentors is the game changer. So it's you're not trading time for money.
Speaker 3:Yeah, as a coach to solve a problem, you are investing in a relationship that is lengthy. Yeah, and they will walk with you through. And then to find somebody that's a couple of steps ahead, yeah, and that's harder because if you're disrupting or you're doing something that is is different, who's doing it? Maybe there isn't somebody who's two steps ahead, but for the average business owner, they're not going to be inspired by um Stephen Bartlett. They love to hear his story, but they couldn't be mentored by him because he's too far ahead. So you've got to find somebody that their journey, their path, is only a year or two ahead.
Speaker 3:In my opinion and then be with them for a little bit and then move on the coach that gets you through your Sunday league is not going to be the one to take you into the premiership.
Speaker 2:You've got to escalate with those different levels it is hard finding them because there's a lot of bs isn't there out there, it's a lot of sharkies. There's a lot of sharks and a lot of noise when it comes to coaching and mentoring there, sure is it?
Speaker 1:does feel like coaching, as an industry is really saturated at the minute. I don't know whether that's because of where I am in business and they're just.
Speaker 2:You've just got to do your due diligence, haven't you?
Speaker 3:that's the algorithms at work. Yeah, and I think there is a difference between um, accredited coaching. So always ask people what's your qualification? Can I see your insurance? Uh, do your due diligence? But to your point about the sharks and the bs, I have met an awful lot of educators who run communities to build entrepreneurs, who have zero education, zero training, zero back, but they still get good results. So actually let the results tell you if this is right for you, because I don't. I don't want to knock them. Some people do a terrible job but get amazing outcomes because they've got a great system, process, tool, technique. It's a really good point, yeah, and equally, you can have amazing people. You've got no processes, systems, plans, techniques. And then what are you going to learn?
Speaker 2:yeah, yeah, I just need someone braver than me. I think think that's like going to lead me a little way and then go here, you go, push you over.
Speaker 3:Well, you've got each other. Yeah, set accountability, but be tough. It's that you make a decision, the mindset of envisioning. You've got to be really clear on your vision. If you don't know where you're going, you're not going to get there quickly. So decide what you want back, cast from that, make a plan and then hold each other accountable. We can all be coaches to each other, we can all be supporters. And then when you realize you've got something that you can't overcome together, in a friendship pair or a support.
Speaker 3:Yeah, then seek it out, seek it out. But I do agree with you the higher you get, the harder it is to find a relatable role model, because there are very few people now who truly, under the hood, inspire me. It becomes so much harder to find someone. But then you take a little bit from yeah, each person.
Speaker 1:I guess you're identifying the gaps that you've got and it's getting laser focused on those gaps and kind of plug them yeah, mine's definitely franchise now. Yeah, definitely franchise. You've got Tim, haven't you? I've got.
Speaker 2:Tim, I've got Tim, I've got Tim.
Speaker 3:Just going to tell Tim what you need, what you want.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he knows, and he's braver as well, which is great bolder, but he also has that vision. He walked salon and just went, oh wow, and what is this wednesday morning? And you're packed. Wow, I know what you're after, I know what you're doing, and I was like, oh, what's that then? He's like we're gonna have one of these in every market town. I was like are we great, amazing?
Speaker 2:which you are, yeah, watch the space I know right what number are you on number seven is opening in the summer wow, that's incredible. Congratulations, thanks, love, thanks yes, we've just had a transition with number one. Well, number three, salon she's, she's exited her franchise agreement and then we've resold the territory, so that's going under a refit fresh blood yeah, it needs five years a long time to have a business, especially with Covid and it's your first franchisee to have too.
Speaker 2:Yes, the first of many, I think actually because the Winchester franchisee has already got three she wants what about?
Speaker 1:you what about?
Speaker 3:me what's next what should I?
Speaker 1:I'm actually really enjoying being on my feet, really, really.
Speaker 3:She loves the teaching don actually really enjoying being on my feet really really I got the vibe from your social media post and I know that social media doesn't always tell you the truth. That's the happiest I've seen you in a very long time oh, you're giving me goodies.
Speaker 2:Her marketing day.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, really enjoyed it and I'm having a lot of conversations at the minute that are kind of do you want to come and do this with me, like other people asking to work together on stuff. So, um, I'm excited for what that's going to do, yeah, and then I still I just after doing the, I didn't realize what. That's the first time that we've run that, what the foundation course was going to do, and people are walking away from it saying they feel inspired, they feel empowered. I did not for one second think that that would be an outcome that we would achieve. I thought that people would feel like they had a plan and that they knew, you know, were a bit clearer on what they're doing. But it's the emotive side of it that I wasn't expecting and it keeps happening. I spoke to someone yesterday who'd done the course and it's Smithy who said she's so excited because of the energy and the impact and the environment that we had facilitated. That's massive.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I feel like every founder should do your foundation course. I really do, but the businesses that were there were. There were so many different types of business. You couldn't. You couldn't have written like the types, the variation of businesses it gives me the fear, like I do.
Speaker 1:We talk about squeaky bum time and that for me, is like whoa, that's a big old mountain to climb, but I'm here for it.
Speaker 3:But if you focus on the outcomes and how those people and their feedback made you feel, yeah, yeah, there's nothing you wouldn't do to get that, do that again. Yeah, repeat that.
Speaker 1:What I'm learning at the minute is my drivers, so I've spent so long going right. We need this much in the house to survive. Goal, goal, goal. But I'm not driven like that.
Speaker 3:No, and the fear of if that's all you need to get by.
Speaker 1:That's all you're going to achieve.
Speaker 3:Exactly. That's actually sad. Yeah, you totally weighed. I saw that Energy got changed.
Speaker 1:But there's been an element of survival because we had a baby. Yeah, we found a baby, yeah, yeah yeah, but I am learning now because I'm not driven by money, I'm not driven by finance. I love financial freedom, but that's because of what that offers outside of that. So I've done a lot of work on values and, if I can focus, like you say, on what we're delivering, the impact that that's having on individuals, that makes my heart sing day in, day out.
Speaker 3:Be careful, it's addictive.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I can imagine. Yeah, I really really enjoyed it.
Speaker 2:Because also there were businesses that came to you after that foundation course that now want your help, because what you've done is open up the doors that marketing is accessible, because when you're a founder, you don't think you can afford it, you don't think you can access that level of support, and what you've done is taught people that there's marketing agencies. Demystified, you have level of support, and what you've done is taught people that there's a there's there's marketing agencies demystified.
Speaker 1:You have, like my, my perception of investment. Yes, yeah, is most people. What you've done is change that for marketing for people.
Speaker 3:I'd love I'd love to make it free. You'd love to make it free of charge. Yeah, the challenge with there's nothing wrong with free.
Speaker 1:We can't I don't think there's no way that we can, but if there was a way to facilitate that where it was accessible, because the annoying thing with marketing is you always need it when you've got no money.
Speaker 2:What about if you had like your wild cards? What about if you had one person on each session?
Speaker 1:that really part of the difficulty's subsidised by the others.
Speaker 2:So everybody that's there knows that there is. You know they're helping.
Speaker 3:But also the shared prosperity fund from your local authority is they will have pots of money that are there to support business owners. So if you look into bids and tenders, and applying for this money that's what grants do and tenders. And applying for this money, that's what grants?
Speaker 3:do they make it fully funded or sponsored by a company who wants to get in front of those types of businesses? There are ways to make it free. Yeah, the challenge with free is who it draws in and, yeah, the commitment um that those attendees have it not always transaction.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I can see where you can see slightly less commitment, but also it's not sustainable because, it's always dependent on somebody else covering the bill.
Speaker 2:But also, if you're in that founder stage, I think you know I'd love to help people with business plans, like writing business plans and things, but if you had you're at that founder stage, that should be part of their startup fee. It's a 500 pound investment, yeah, to really niche down on who your client customer is or your client is. That's not a huge investment.
Speaker 1:When you're at founder stage and you're looking to start a business, you should just plan for that and half of this is me saying that I want to help, I want to make a difference, but half of it will probably be playing safe because I struggle with saying, oh, it's this much like if you want to do this, it needs to be this much. I still struggle with that. So I've got my own blockers and, um, my own mindset challenges that I need to overcome in order to make a broad brush, that that is, women in business they they, um, statistically, are purpose over profit, yeah and, and want to help more than they want to charge Not every woman, but it's not sustainable.
Speaker 3:No, so you can still do good and charge money.
Speaker 2:I think it's having that separation, isn't it Filling your love cup, doing good but running a profitable business and also the value you're giving. You don't need it to be free. People need to pay that because they will get so much from it and the more money you earn, the more you can give yes, thanks for coaching me on that note, debbie Lewis, thank you so much for coming and spending time with us my absolute pleasure.
Speaker 3:Thank you for being so kind, and you are amazing, so please keep being amazing but also be a tiny bit braver.
Speaker 2:Yes, let's all be a bit braver, Okay be brave.
Speaker 3:Oh, actually that's a jazz amp or far. What she has a talk called 10% Braver, so better not steal it. Give her credit.
Speaker 1:Show notes. All right, Watch her talk Really. Disclaimer number four.
Speaker 2:Put that in the show notes. I need to watch that.
