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Wild Moos
Welcome to Wild Moos, the no-holds-barred podcast where the boardroom meets the playroom.
Hosted by Amy of Mooeys and Nicole from Wild Bird Marketing, this podcast dives into the messy, joyful, and often chaotic life of being a mother and a business owner.
Every episode is a candid exploration of the trials and triumphs that come with juggling spreadsheets and sippy cups.
From start-up stories that defy the "perfect mum" myth to scaling a business without sacrificing sanity, Amy and Nicole share it all.
Expect laughter, tears, and plenty of swear words as they peel back the curtain on what it really takes to thrive in the dual worlds of business and motherhood.
Wild Moos is a community, a confession booth, and your cheerleading squad all rolled into one.
Whether you're knee-deep in nappies, drafting business plans, or just dreaming about what could be, Wild Moos is the podcast for every mum who’s ever had to lock the bathroom door just to answer an email.
Tune in for your regular dose of inspiration, commiseration, and a reminder that you're not alone on this wild ride of entrepreneurship and motherhood.
Wild Moos
Wild Moos Podcast Episode 21: Empowering Women in Corporate Life and Beyond
Can you imagine transforming your wardrobe into a source of inspiration and well-being? Join us as we chat with Nessa, the brilliant mind behind the Epiphany Closet, a clothing brand that radiates positivity and sustainability. Nessa opens up about her evolution from a self-conscious individual to the proud owner of a brand that speaks volumes through meaningful quotes and high-quality, sustainable apparel. You'll hear firsthand how her designs, like "Fitness Is My Therapy" and "Remember Why You Started," resonate deeply with her community, turning customers into a supportive network.
But that’s not all—we also navigate the shifting landscape of casual fashion, highlighting the rise of comfort-driven choices like the humble t-shirt. Ever felt the isolation of working from home? We share our vision of flexible, community-oriented workspaces where professionals can thrive both creatively and socially. Nessa talks about balancing the demands of a full-time job with a passion project, offering insights on maintaining personal routines and self-care to keep burnout at bay.
Finally, our conversation takes a poignant turn as we discuss the unique challenges faced by women in corporate settings, particularly during menopause. Nessa reveals her journey from a stifling, gender-biased environment to building her own empowering business. We touch on the necessity of workplace policies that support women through life transitions and the vital role of education and community in navigating menopause. This episode promises to uplift, educate, and inspire you to embrace authenticity and resilience in both personal and professional realms.
SHOW NOTES:
Check out Vanessa's clothing company
https://theepiphanycloset.com/
Diary of a CEO (Menopause episode)
https://youtu.be/Cgo2mD4Pc54?si=QMgb6TLX1zCc2pnN
Nicole Bilham of WildBird Marketing Agency
https://wildbirdmarketing.co.uk/
Amy Lewis of The Mooeys Group
www.mooeys.co.uk | www.mooeysfranchise.co.uk | www.mooskin.co
We have got an amazing guest with us today.
Speaker 2:Welcome Nessa.
Speaker 3:Thank you so much for having me. I was almost going to tell you then what number podcast you're on, but then I thought, no, it's probably wrong, because I was thinking of your old series.
Speaker 1:No, we're on series two. I think four, five, I have no idea Something like that.
Speaker 3:I think I've got one to catch up on. Have you, I'm looking forward to it.
Speaker 2:So your me epiphany closet is fabulous, thank you very much, and we are. We've got you here today because, first of all, you're an avid listener of our poddy, aren't you? I can, yeah, and we want to talk to you because we love hearing about what you're doing, where you're going, what you're doing with your business, but also what you've been through, I think, with your previous employment and menopause. We've got so many things we need to talk to you about.
Speaker 3:I'm so excited about it like three hours not at all, shall we just?
Speaker 1:do you want to tell us a little bit about the epiphany closet?
Speaker 3:yeah, I mean, I think if you'd have asked me that four months and probably a month ago, I'd have said no, not too sure. But it's that confidence and I met these two lovely ladies that have just given me that confidence back.
Speaker 3:I don't know who they are one's called Nick one's called Amy, but yeah, so I am confident to say that I run a well-being brand clothing brand positivity, inspiration and motivational clothing that, thank you to so many lovely people, have made me confident in saying that it's. It's a it's not fast fashion, it's the opposite of fast fashion, isn't it?
Speaker 3:it's slow fashion quality quality, sustainable t-shirts that people can wear and actually go. That's really different. Do you know what I mean? Because it's you just you look at something and you sort of think I could get that anywhere, and that's where I worry and everyone wears the same and everyone wears the same thing.
Speaker 3:I even started finding myself looking at ideas and going oh, I could do that with mine, but actually I'm forgetting that mine's a really unique brand. Yeah, my clothes are different. You could get them in a similar sort of context from our local, shall we say, high street shops.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 3:But they're cheap, they're impersonal, they're just. There's nothing that I would want to go and buy.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:But yeah, so I.
Speaker 1:But you're also driving community behind what you're doing.
Speaker 3:Yeah, actually I watched something last night about a woman that had somebody say you're just there for the money and business. She said, no, this is about my community. And, yeah, community is really important to me. I think I even call my followers my community. I really hate you know. Know, I really really don't like saying, oh my god, I've got a thousand followers. It's lovely to reach that achievement, but community generally is, it is what it is. I've met so many, so many people that have grown in the epiphany closet. I mean, obviously we met away from the epiphany closet but through a friend that has brought us all together, all of us running our own business, yeah, but reaching out to customers that actually, quite personally, they this sounds really sort of quite big-headed they need me. Does that make sense? They've come to me because they need to talk, yeah, and as much as. Obviously that's not part, that's not my business. I'm not a coach or counselor, but to have that community say do you know what your t-shirt made me feel?
Speaker 3:amazing today because I put it on and it just made me think of you makes people feel powerful.
Speaker 2:It does, because it. I mean, let's talk about what's on the t-shirts first of all. What sort of? What are your top selling quotes or images on your t-shirts?
Speaker 3:I, I would say my sports, the sports club that's obviously incorporated into the Epiphany closet. That is more of an image with text. So I really want to get the sort of point across of a quote that is inspiring, but actually images. Sometimes people like to see there's always going to be something spiritual with me or mine, there's always going to be something that's connected to moons or spiritual sort of being. But obviously most of them, I would say, are quotes, inspiring quotes, and I'll always well, I say always, that would be a bit untrue. I try so hard to get my own quotes created and they're mainly from listening to people.
Speaker 3:So, I'll listen to people's stories and then I'll pull something from it and go. That needs to be on a T-shirt. That's their heartfelt message. Not too sure whether there's probably a few trademark issues with some of them, it's just conversation, yeah. And actually you've got more chance of having issues with copyright if you are taking someone's famous quote like you know a celebrity?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so you have. I can see show up consistently as one of yours. What other ones have you got?
Speaker 3:So in the sports range we've got Fitness Is my Therapy, which has been really popular. Actually, I think it's so many people's therapy. It might not be what everyone wants to wear on their back, but that was the first T-shirt that was created and, I'll be really honest, my eldest daughter had a huge impact on that. I struggle with the creative side of art. That's not my forte. That takes me a heck of a lot of time to sort of get something right. So, yeah, fitness is my therapy. We've got. Remember why you Started.
Speaker 3:I love that, that's such a lovely Well it is. We all need to listen to that. It doesn't have to just be in sport, does it? It resonates with so many different aspects of all of our lives.
Speaker 3:But yeah, so the fitness I haven't. Actually I need to create more in my sports club. It's one of those things that so many people are after it, but actually I'm trying to build it for what I've got, because they're so special. So I've actually sent a few off to some content creators this week, so I'm waiting on the feedback on that, but yeah, you had the lemons as well recently, didn't you?
Speaker 2:yeah?
Speaker 3:that's launching this friday so that's my information collection. So we've got when life gives you lemons. I don't just like pop in a quote on a t-shirt. I really think having the understanding of the meaning underneath it is is really important because, like when life gives you lemons, it is a a standard quote. Yeah, but the positivity quote at the bottom of it is what I want people to read.
Speaker 4:So yeah.
Speaker 3:So, yeah, we have an orange T-shirt coming out about fruits and seeds and planting your seeds. So yeah that's all coming on Friday. I've got serendipity. It's all the things that I've listened to over the years from people, so that's a word that my daughter is really passionate about. You know, the loved one that I created and you kindly modelled, yeah, they're all the sort of things I think people resonate with you know. Yeah, but sorry.
Speaker 4:I was just going to say.
Speaker 3:Oh gosh, you've got a gut, but it's so hard because I think what I have noticed I'm doing, I do things that I love, yeah, and it's so hard in business.
Speaker 2:You would do, you would.
Speaker 3:Obviously it's your first sort of instinct, but actually it's not necessarily what everyone likes, and that's what I'm starting to see on some of my products.
Speaker 2:You've got to do what other people want as well.
Speaker 3:Yeah, totally.
Speaker 2:Or be led by your customer to some degree, yeah. So why T-shirts? Because it is just T-shirts you do, isn't it it?
Speaker 3:is T-shirts and hoodies, and my first sweatshirt comes out on Friday, although heat-wise obviously probably not the best time, but we all live in England.
Speaker 2:Everyone's going to need a sweatshirt when we go out on a.
Speaker 3:Friday night or on holiday. So, yeah, I do T-shirts. There are more things coming, so there's going to be a new sports club range with caps and socks and a whole bundle, and that would be my last launch this year of a new collection, but t-shirts. Do you know what? When I left my job, I needed to do something.
Speaker 3:I've always known that I've wanted to do something that can give back to people so my thought was sort of something to do with affirmations, well-being, and my sister said to me why don't you try cards? Why don't you try gift cards? Now, that is such a good idea because but it's, it's not niche, and actually I'm not creative, and I'll be the first one to admit it I'm not creative enough yeah to put pretties, as I call it yeah on cards I'm looking at your beautiful wallpaper as I say that but actually, with T-shirts and quotes, I felt like it was the safe option, which is not always the right thing to do, but everyone's wearing it.
Speaker 3:We went out, had that amazing T-shirt on and I had so much feedback from that and then when you go out and see somebody in your T-shirt which somebody sent me a few weeks ago it was the most humbling thing ever. It was amazing. So I think I honestly I think it was a way of getting spotted. Yeah, you wear a t-shirt yeah you know it's on you and you feel proud to show it off.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I also think like dress wise late. I don't say lately, but over the years it's definitely become more casual, hasn't it?
Speaker 4:Is it just an age thing? I?
Speaker 2:think people's dress style is a lot more casual isn't it?
Speaker 1:Oh, definitely yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, because if we go out, you'll often see me in a t-shirt, blazer and jeans. More often than not and don't get me wrong, there's so many people that don't wear t-shirts. And when I first started the business, I've got a really good friendship circle within my sister's friendships and I sort of did a survey and they're like we don't really wear t-shirts. And then you sort of start thinking, oh gosh, is it the right thing?
Speaker 3:but actually it is, it's just not for them yeah and I'm not going to appeal to everybody's fashion sense, but that I follow a woman called. Is it astrid?
Speaker 4:oh yeah, astrid. Astrid, she lives near my sister.
Speaker 3:She's awesome yeah, I actually spoke to her the other day, asked her to model a t-shirt.
Speaker 3:Obviously she said no, she's got a 600 000 followers yeah, which and actually she's just been out of my t-shirt and I was like please don't steal my idea, but she peeked at my website, so there's a but anyway. So when you see someone as vibrant I think she's 60 years old she looks amazing. Any age people are wearing these T-shirts and I'm not going to lie, as I have got older, don't like the arms as much. This is a first sitting in a vest top in a very long time, so T-shirts are just just they cover all the right areas don't they, yeah, they do.
Speaker 2:It's a huge market. You feel more comfortable as well and it's something you would want to wear. But then there's a sustainability element to it as well. Like they're all organic cotton, aren't they? And they've all got a sustainable yeah, they're all 100% organic like when you can see the sustainability of a t-shirt or that where it's created or come from, or something so, basically the background.
Speaker 3:Well, I've all of my mantis t-shirts. They have a qr code so you can click on that and it shows you the productivity line from where it's come from yeah and you've got how many workers they've got in the factory. It's so amazing. They are such a good. It's so ethically produced and that's so, so key to me, um, which is why I advertise. It's not fast fashion, it's it's not mass produced it's ethical fashion.
Speaker 1:You know it is ethical but, yes. So before I press record, we were having a little chat about were we yeah, about? We can't talk about that one, no no, the one that we can talk about is was how we find working from home, finding space together. We're looking at collab spaces, aren't we to?
Speaker 2:yeah, conversation we had, wasn't it about how lonely it can be? And we talked about we've touched this a few times about how lonely working for yourself can be. And the question is, if we all worked in an office together, what would we get done? Would we get much done, or would we just breed more creativity? And it would lighten you up enough that I think it.
Speaker 1:I think, yeah, it depends on your personality if you're easily distracted or if you need that structure I've. I don't think I have probably realised as much as I have since doing the poddy with you that working at home is really lonely, and it's probably because we've just lost the pets as well.
Speaker 3:So it's super lonely.
Speaker 1:There's no one else there no animals, no nothing. It's very quiet, but it's also like when you're struggling with something, yeah, and having that, that. Oh my god, what do you think about this? So I'm having this horrible dark thought. Can you help me with it?
Speaker 3:that's probably the biggest thing, I think, isn't it? You're in an office full of 10 people. Some people don't wear the heart on the sleeve and they'll just cope with what they're dealing with yeah.
Speaker 3:I am definitely, and I know you girls would be you like you sit, sit in an office, oh, amy, what do you think about this? What do you think about this? And as much as sometimes it might be intense, the idea that you've just come up with, I think, is just so amazing. Imagine getting a community of business people, women and men, that you're creating an office space where you'll go in to do your own business and the creativity that you would all get from where you'll go in to do your own business and the creativity that you would all get from those coffees I'd have, amy, do my nails there, you wouldn't want me doing them now.
Speaker 3:But I think it's an amazing idea. I think it could really, really work.
Speaker 2:But it's out there, isn't it?
Speaker 4:Yeah, people are doing it.
Speaker 2:But I suppose it's finding your own community, isn't it, and doing it. And we looked at various different office spaces and how much it would be and whether you can just do a dip in, dip out, like I don't want to be tied up with new leases and stuff like that, I want somewhere that is just like 20 quid a day, yeah, and we just say we're going to be working here this day, this month. Anyone else want to do it? It's 20 quid.
Speaker 3:So that's, that's exactly. It, isn't it? I always have this vision of you talk about internet cafes and I go to magazine heaven. A lot of the lakes because free wi-fi a couple of cups of tea is only five, but it's a really nice.
Speaker 3:It's very dark in there but you feel like you're in a space, a safe space. But if you had an internet cafe that had them work benches that you could all congregate over and you contribute, let's say, 10, 20 pound a day and there's like a filter coffee in it god, I'd love to do something like that. Imagine having that where yeah, where it's neutral ground for everybody. You wouldn't even mind traveling half an hour because that's part of your working day.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we did look at it, didn't we?
Speaker 2:because we thought, well, there's something in this where we can probably list five or six people that would be like, oh my god, just one day a month at least yeah, and if you can have like loads yeah, you could have, like there's those flags you get, isn't it where it says like I'm open for a chat, I've got to get my head down and get working and you can have like a scale of what is it you're there for, like I'm open for a chat or leave me alone? Yeah, no, I've got a project to work on or something.
Speaker 3:I think it's. I think it's amazing idea the thought of being at home. Like I just you said before we went live in the winter. It's a it's a lonely sort of time we all struggle with. Sad, and I think and I'm also quite a tight ass I don't want my heating on all the time or I want to be able to go out and utilize having a coffee somewhere. It just makes you feel connected, definitely, and it's, it is lonely, and for me personally, I work in my kitchen and that's driving me mad you know well the problem is with.
Speaker 2:That is your home. We said about this. Your home is then no longer your safe space, so your home, which is why it's so nice to be able to come to the end of the garden and then shut the door at the end of the day and not have to take it in if I don't want to. It does make a huge difference oh, definitely.
Speaker 3:Beth walked in the other day and she went mum, this kitchen's got a really weird feeling about it at the minute and I was like I know well, it's got a heat press there, an air fryer there and my computer in the corner and, of course, with clothing, I have to make sure all my clothes go into the living room on the clothes rail. Yeah, because obviously you can't have food around and it's all those things. And, like you, I mean this is amazing. I would love a summer house. I think it's a great idea, but then I'm still on my own yeah do you know what I mean?
Speaker 1:so there's that challenge no definitely not so epiphany closet were you, was that side hustle to begin with, and then ramped up on its own do you know what?
Speaker 3:that was a topic that I was actually said that word in my head in the car on the way over here. I was like I think I've come to the conclusion, having said about going back to work, and it is a side hustle at the moment and I don't want it to be. It feels no, it's not, it feels like a side hustle yeah because it's obviously it's not slow, it's going really well for five months in, but I want to be able to put a lot more financials into it. I want to.
Speaker 3:I want to be able to put money into it so I can make it huge yeah but at the moment it's something that would be an amazing income as well as a job that I was having. I mean, I'd be flying, but because I'm relying on it, because I have left my work, you know, it feels like a side hustle and I can't. I can't do that. I need to be, I need to be doing more.
Speaker 1:So it's so hard though that's pressure, oh the pressure is unbelievable yeah, it's like feast or famine as well, isn't it? So you end up you're doing something for love, but at the same time you're thinking sorry, that's me projecting. I'm thinking, fuck, I've got to pay the bills as well no, it's 100% what's in my head, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:And then it takes the joy out of it doesn't it, you know? And I think it's it was changing me as a person. Do you know what I mean? I felt quite isolated. Yeah, I have done in many pools anyway, but this like coming out for something like this today, getting my hair done, put my makeup on I wasn't doing it.
Speaker 3:I'm not doing any of that, and that's not the Vanessa that I know I'm always dressed not over the top, but I would never go to work without my makeup on. Yeah, so I kind of lost myself. So I think it's really important to to want to go back to work part-time, to have that sort of normality back and realise that I can have that business.
Speaker 2:Is it the routine that you struggle with not having?
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Because, even like in lockdown, I used to get up every day and put my face on. So, yeah, I had to, because I couldn't focus. If I didn't, I had to go and work somewhere, even if it was in a different room. I'd have to get up, get dressed, put my face on and then and go to work.
Speaker 3:As such, yeah, it's really difficult though it really is, and I am, I think my sister said to me once you, you, the thing is, you're so routine, vanessa, I'm so. I'm a bit organized chaos as well but I am very good at organizing. It's what I like to do. So to get up and put my gym kit on every day, even if I'm not going to the gym, I tell myself I'm going, yeah, but yeah.
Speaker 4:I think. I think it's even if.
Speaker 3:I'm not going to the gym. I tell myself I'm going, yeah, but yeah, I think I think it's probably, if I'm brutally honest, I think it's kind of I've lost myself a bit as much as I'm really loving the business and I just love pleasing people and seeing it grow and it's such an accomplishment it really is. It's a bit for your own ego.
Speaker 3:I know that sounds a bit of a weird thing to say, but it's something to be proud of you know and and I think I'm scared of going back to work because I feel like I'm a bit of all or nothing I'm very much on that sort of you can't have both and I can't.
Speaker 1:I don't do well at doing two things at once yeah I've got to learn I can and I will of course you will, because it's this is your love project and you want it to continue to be your love project yeah totally, which means you'll move heaven and earth to, to manage that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and actually the word side hustle. I don't want it to be a side hustle. No, you know, I don't mean this in a derogatory way to anybody, but anybody can start a side hustle. I can sit and make some jewelry now if I wanted to just to sell 100 pounds worth a month. I don't want it to be that I see big things like. We've had many conversations, haven't we? We all see the future, yeah, and I, 99 of the time, still see it yeah, so why are you then looking for employment?
Speaker 3:one. I think I I genuinely will go insane being on my own right. I obviously I'm a single mum, yeah, which I love, I must add. Yes, I've got to put that in.
Speaker 3:My kids are amazing, you know, they keep me going, they drive me crazy you know I'm so grateful to be blonde because I would be fully gray, but whether anybody likes it or not, it's a lonely place. It really is, and I need structure and, without being crass talking about finances, I want to be able to have more of a autonomous life financially you know, I'm lucky enough to not be working. I say working loosely, obviously I'm running my business, but I am lucky enough to have the funds at the moment to keep me going but that's not going to last forever you know, and I don't want that pressure.
Speaker 2:I want that holiday. I want that nice car.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 3:All them things that I think I actually think are crass, but let's be realistic. It's what we go to work for, isn't it? Yeah, we all do.
Speaker 1:Yeah, do, yeah. So yeah, I think it's. There's no doubt about it it's tough and I am wild birds five years in now and I still feel lost. I've gone I think I've gone, for a really weird period of feeling lost. I only just recently and we've been doing some mindset stuff, haven't we learning to, which is hard for a control freak, but I'm learning how to let go of the how and just know in my bones that it's going to be okay, because I've always felt like that anyway, but I've probably been too focused on the how do we actually get there?
Speaker 2:but that's the pressure, isn't it as well? And that's that financial pressure, pressure where you're like I have to just keep working, keep working, keep working, keep pushing this. And it's got to work, it's got to be okay, and there is an element of sitting back and going.
Speaker 1:It just will and I just have to have faith I'm really enjoying that feeling actually I don't know whether it's a really good feeling, but I don't know if I'm losing my.
Speaker 1:I feel like I'm losing my marbles, though, because if you look at the figures and the revenue of Wild Birds, you go. Why are you so fucking chilled out? But I'm 100 percent, and in a month's time I may have lost the plot completely, but I know that it's going to be all right, and I think I said this before. I'm doing all of the right things, but I'm stressing less about the how. And I feel so much more peaceful inside Well.
Speaker 3:I think a piece of advice you gave me a few weeks ago was right at the beginning actually, Just step away. When you step away and take that pressure off yourself and think less about it and the worry behind it, all of a sudden it will just.
Speaker 2:No.
Speaker 3:It will come.
Speaker 2:The obsession isn't healthy.
Speaker 3:No, but that pause and that break, yeah, totally, it really is but I think if you don't believe, if you don't believe in yourself, then how is it going to happen? If you put that, you know my spiritual side's going to come out a bit now, sorry, but don't ever apologize if you put what you want into that unit, into our universe because at the end of the day we're all created, we are the universe and it will happen.
Speaker 3:You only put out what you put in, and gratitude goes a long way. Gratitude, love, practice and gratitude.
Speaker 2:I actually wrote an entire page just of gratitude yesterday.
Speaker 3:I just had the urge. I had a new notebook.
Speaker 2:My sister had given it to me. She'd got it at work and it was an Amy Winehouse ones, and it said on the front.
Speaker 3:You know I'm no good.
Speaker 2:And I was like this is such beautiful paper. I'm sorry, willow, I've taken it. It was meant to be for Willow. I was like I'm keeping this, the paper is too nice. And I just spoke the first front page. I was just sat there and Martin was like what are you doing?
Speaker 3:I was like I'm just going to write what I'm grateful. Yeah, well, I think I feel like you're putting that on paper and it's also important to say out loud as well. You know, I feel like you're giving back as well yeah, I'm really grateful for this life.
Speaker 2:We've created 100 and this. Like you, I wrote that I'm grateful for my intelligence so you know, I'm grateful for the intelligence I've been gifted with to allow me to be able to do this, but also what you're, because this didn't all come to us.
Speaker 3:naturally, we all have to work really hard to get where we are, and I don't just mean in business sort of sense. We are bringing our children up to believe that they can do whatever they want to achieve.
Speaker 2:So we have to be able to believe that as well, absolutely.
Speaker 3:And meeting you guys. That wasn't just luck. That was meant to be my amazing friend Leanne. For most of my amazing friend Leanne, from most of my life I've met a lady I just think you're going to really love, and then your friends with Amy and through your friends of we've met at the pub. Yeah, I just believe things are meant to be and we are all deserved. You know, deserved of what?
Speaker 4:what we are creating and it will come.
Speaker 3:I'm a great believer.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it will. And when you do let go and these things just land on your lap, you're like oh, wow, amazing.
Speaker 1:Why didn't I trust? In the universe sooner, don't you think?
Speaker 3:it is an age thing, though I mean you're fortunate enough to be already going through that feeling, because I certainly wasn't at 36.
Speaker 3:Six, nice yeah well done nearly 37 excellent that's good because I am really bad with ages. So I think to go through it and that's my, it's not a regret, but it's my only wish that I'd have been on this journey maybe 10 years earlier. Just because when you get to 40 something, I'm 47, i't care, it's scary because you think I've only got a few more years left of doing this. But actually, huge follower of Jane Fonda, I just look at her every day and I am wholly inspired by that woman.
Speaker 1:I will be going at 100, pissing people off the other thing that I keep telling myself as well, which I think is helping with the mindset stuff, is I don't know where I've got it from, maybe it's what's her chops on mind valley I remember you are exactly yeah, regan, you're exactly where you are supposed to be right now very true so, and it's grasping those little moments, I think, when you're hustling really, really hard, that hustling feels exhausting, doesn't it?
Speaker 2:it drains your soul. Yeah, and it's not joy. No, it's not light. It's not because it's not living, is it? It's coming square peg, round hole, like I need this, I have to make this work, it's like anger inside yeah and actually, as we're talking about it now, you get. I said I've been having that sort of like stomach issues.
Speaker 3:Actually, if I'm really honest, I would say a high percentage of that is stress in my belly and I read something really, really it's fascinating.
Speaker 2:Your gut is like your second brain, it is your second brain and if you have stress and inflammation in your body.
Speaker 3:we all know what inflammation leads to.
Speaker 2:And it's so, so dangerous. I get a really bad stomach when I'm stressed.
Speaker 3:Yeah and it. I get a really bad stomach when I'm stressed yeah and it's not, and then of course that leads on to not eating particularly well. But yeah, I think you've just got to believe in you. And, like you said, it will just happen. I just worry about time for me.
Speaker 1:Now you've made the decision to actively start looking at roles and looking at part-time positions. How does that feel for you?
Speaker 3:I'll be honest. I woke up this morning after having applied for a couple of jobs at the weekend. I get nervous. I just because I'm not the sociable person I was probably 10 years ago, not because I've lost confidence in socializing. I don't want to. I don't. I don't like people.
Speaker 1:I think you're an introvert, like underneath.
Speaker 3:I think I'm an extrovert, introvert, and when I say that to people I get laughed at.
Speaker 2:Me too.
Speaker 3:It's funny, isn't it? We are very similar like that, aren't we? I was like mate, I am an absolute slob like quiet slob. I love to be on my own or be in my little bubble at home like nobody else around A hundred percent or be in my little bubble at home like nobody else around 100%, which is a real contradiction in I don't want to work from home. I'm really lonely, but actually I want to be able to pick when.
Speaker 1:I want to see people and speak to them. It's the freedom of choice.
Speaker 3:yeah, the thought of sitting in an office again, again, not in contradiction to what we were saying about dipping in and out of it with our businesses, but the thought of being in an office environment with different natured people and accommodate. I haven't got any tolerance, girls.
Speaker 2:It's gone. What sort of job are you after?
Speaker 3:Well, I mean obviously my last few years has been admin. I've been sort of working with tenders, sales, so I know my experience is really vast. I've got in so many different areas. Customer service.
Speaker 1:You actually might be going for a tender. Do you think you could help me with that?
Speaker 3:I mean I haven't written my own tender, but obviously I we used to do all the administration on it. It's great. I love tender writing. It's really Shut the fuck up. Oh God, when we used to get a tender at work can't say too much about them, obviously, because, but it was probably one of the most enjoyable. I mean it was stressful because you're under pressure, you've got to get that tender to win that.
Speaker 1:There's loads of stuff, but there's loads of things that you have to like, it's not an easy process.
Speaker 3:Oh, all the rounds, everything. Nessa, will you help me?
Speaker 1:I would love to help you, nessa. Why could you? Yeah, I know yeah.
Speaker 3:I actually said to someone the other day what I said if you need any help with your business, this is what I do.
Speaker 2:Right. List out what you do and what your last role was. So.
Speaker 3:I was in customer service. I worked in accounts moved up from there because it was temporary. So I went from accounts to customer service so I'd help like schedule engineers and logistics, all that sort of stuff production quotes, purchase orders.
Speaker 3:So I've done all the purchase ledger, yeah. And then my last role was sales coordinator and that was a really vast sort of area of, again, sort of finances, budgets, organizing meetings, project management meetings, all of these things, and I know sorry we are for those of us, those people that can't see us, amy and I looking at each other going do you need to work for anyone else, or could you just set yourself up as a virtual pa?
Speaker 3:there we go well, here you go. Now you two. I've actually got goosebumps on my arms because I have always wanted to do consultancy work. I love fixing people's businesses. I had so many opportunities in my last company where I almost begged for more work, almost begged my MD for give me something to get my teeth into. I can fix this. This is not going well.
Speaker 2:What is it? What's your superpower when you're fixing? Is it when? They're financially ruined, or is it when there's no culture or it well, mainly work.
Speaker 3:Culture is a huge thing for me yeah so fixing a work culture where you're not getting people's, you're not getting the best out of people you know, so you're not. It's not I'm not so interested in, which is a bit, a bit of a sort of oxymoron, I think. Think I'm not really interested in getting the best financials. To be honest, considering I'm a salesperson Right, I want to see people work together, okay.
Speaker 4:And.
Speaker 3:I could see in my last role. It was like having 50 members of staff that worked for all different companies because nobody pulled together. Yeah, so fixing things for me.
Speaker 2:So you were a project leader. Yeah 100, 100 leadership is my. I am a born leader. That sounded really big head.
Speaker 4:No, please take it seriously you're saying it and you mean it don't ever you don't ever need to apologize for that.
Speaker 2:I own that. What the fuck are you doing? Thank you, Amy. I don't know.
Speaker 3:Do you know what? I know what I'm doing when you get told no so many times? You're a woman, you're not going to be in that role, you just go, okay? Well, I'll believe that. Then I almost went through a project management job in my company and I remember speaking to somebody about it and I said what do you think? And he laughed. He literally just went. He just didn't take me seriously. I don't think he meant it rudely, he thought I was joking.
Speaker 2:So it's and then you stop trying, don't you?
Speaker 3:You give up.
Speaker 2:So you were a corporate role, very masculine company, wasn't it?
Speaker 3:Very masculine yeah.
Speaker 2:What was the ratio of men to women? Do you think?
Speaker 3:80-20.
Speaker 2:Wow.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I would say 80-20.
Speaker 2:And then you started going through the menopause.
Speaker 3:Correct yes, I did.
Speaker 2:And how did that affect you and your job?
Speaker 3:I think, to begin with, it was actually when I first started in accounts that I remember getting hot flushes.
Speaker 1:How old were you then? Oh gosh.
Speaker 3:I must have been 41. I had a hysterectomy when I was 38, 37 maybe, so I was forced into menopause.
Speaker 2:Hrt wasn't really even about then that sounds really scary, but it was at that time. I never really wanted to take what was there? Yeah, because of the breast cancer, yeah, and all that sort of stuff.
Speaker 3:So I was put on. I kept my ovaries for a while.
Speaker 1:It makes me sound like I just kicked them out when I didn't need them, put them in my bum bag.
Speaker 3:But yes, I had that at 38, so then I got put on hrt when I realized what was going.
Speaker 1:I was going through, went through, sorry did they not when you had the hysterectomy? Did they not say that this would be an effect like afterwards, a side effect of having the hysterectomy?
Speaker 3:that's likely you'll go through the menopause and symptoms of menopause they said, because I kept my ovaries to start with, you should be fine, you'll just go through it at a normal time. But then I remember research, research and saying, well, why don't I need progesterone because I haven't got a womb? Yeah, you can't take that away from me at 38. Yeah, in the end they put they did put me on some and then ovaries came out a couple of years later because I was having really a bad endo yeah, so.
Speaker 3:So pop them out full-on. Menopause hit a 41-year-old woman raging. I would say it was a massive contributor to my partner and I splitting up. Working in that environment you could feel the rage. The rage used to get the heat would come through, but anyway, I moved through the system, moved through the company and then I would say Did you say anything to anyone, or did you just carry it?
Speaker 3:No, not at that stage, because I think I was still in the, because that was the same time that I split up from my kid's dad. So obviously that was quite a big thing, which is all lovely. We're very lucky to have a great relationship. But I think when you talk about Even though there was women going through at work, it wasn't really. It was just stop moaning, that's just oh god, there's also. But anyway, I sort of got on all the hrt I needed and then I would say in the last year, probably since lockdown, that that was because obviously I could work at home or or was furloughed.
Speaker 3:Yeah, going back in full time with menopause was like, yeah, this is not for me. So it was. It was pretty horrific, but I I reached out many times. I even I did statistics on how many women in the company were menopausal. I proposed a menopause or a menopause policy. I even it. I did hours of work to deliver it and say we need this and all they did was bring in a mental health app and click on it if you need it which is terrible.
Speaker 2:So for those 20% of women that were working there, do you think what percentage of those 20% were actually? 45%, wow, so nearly half of the women in the business were going through menopause and they didn't give a shit.
Speaker 4:No.
Speaker 3:No, because.
Speaker 1:Well, they wouldn't, would they? They've got no understanding.
Speaker 2:No.
Speaker 1:Were there any females on leadership team or at board level?
Speaker 3:There were, but the person who was on the leadership team who, to be fair, is a good friend of mine and she did everything she could, yeah, but she was, she's only young, she's not going through it. Yeah, actually she's your age, yeah, very young. But actually the people that, the other ladies that were going through it I'm quite chuffed to say I actually helped some of them, advising you know, go try that cream, go try that gel yeah um, but I'm the only I mean Amazonian woman, apparently.
Speaker 3:No, actually I wasn't an Amazonian woman, you're an alpha female. What? Yeah, I'm an alpha female. That's what I was told sorry, who said this? So from a person in my company. I was told I'm an alpha female and that I'm a strong character and I'm not the one that should be delivering these suggestions of these policies. Why, I don't know you need should be delivering these suggestions of these policies?
Speaker 1:Why, I don't know. I'm still waiting for a question.
Speaker 2:You need to be some sort of nurturing maternal. What do you mean? Amazonian Well.
Speaker 1:I'm the, I'm a confident lady, You're a force is what they're saying. They felt threatened by it is the subject.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so from that day forward, I stopped caring and I thought well, well, now my confidence is completely gone such a shame, well it is and it's really hard to find people that give a shit. 100% in employment, yeah the thing is with me. I want to fix the world, and always have done, ever since I was a little girl. And when you see something that needs fixing, whether it be financial or through the company, to not be allowed to help fix it? Yeah wow, that's worse than a huge rejection that's like you're not worthy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, off you go, love it's because you see I've got, I've got the solution right here. Let me, let me show you the way. And they're going. You could have led that they could have literally said to you do what they.
Speaker 2:We see what you're doing. This is not our forte. Why don't you run with that and you create a community within this business to support these women?
Speaker 3:but this is what I asked to do before I ended up leaving, and they just nothing to lose and everything to gain but the one thing I will say when you're a confident person and I'll be honest to say 99 of the company I got on so well with and had some amazing messages when I left, the other one percent that didn't like Vanessa were the ones that were able to put the the influential the influential.
Speaker 2:Yeah, input on why I shouldn't be allowed to do it yeah and that's kind of where the so all of this happened in 2023, or yes, yes, it let.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it happened, it's been happening for probably a couple of years and when you can just put up with something yeah but then obviously, the stronger you go into menopause obviously I'm in the height of it at the moment you either don't tolerate it or it turns you into an absolute mess, and unfortunately it did the latter so it was. You're not going to be accepted, they don't want your idea, so going to have to go. So that was the only way out, because and then I thought, well, I'll channel the energy into myself because the stress is not doing me any good.
Speaker 3:yeah, and what a, what a bloody great move it was so chuffed yeah because there I got to build the epiphany closet and in, to be completely honest in their work time yeah because it was when it was quiet. I was like what can I do to get out of here? Yeah so I'm actually really grateful for being treated. In some ways it made me think right, girly, go out there and do it yourself for you, though, if they don't want it, I'll have it for me no.
Speaker 1:So a lot of this story is tough, but it's really resonating on this side with my corporate life. Yeah, it's so hard to be in a male-dominated environment I think it's getting better now I do think it's getting better, but it's really hard, especially if you're a strong woman or if you've got a force like you just get called a bitch, or like you're hard-nosed or you're amazonian and you're far too strong and powerful to deliver this message. When really would you? If it was a man delivering that message, would they be saying the same?
Speaker 3:thing. The amount of people that were offered promotion after promotion in from the male side was just unbelievable. You're watching under your nose and I just remember and and I do work on what's the word I'm looking for not being lifted up. I don't need to be told I'm good enough, but everybody works on recognition and thinking. Well, hang on. I've worked really hard to be this strong woman because I haven't always been so, yeah, I think, and then I got resentful.
Speaker 3:So then it was my sort of this old boys club. It's not for me too much small man syndrome and not enough.
Speaker 1:Be proud of the women you've got, sort of thing, without sounding too feminist so, with all of these incredible skills that you have, with some that I'm just hearing about today for the first time, what are you going to do?
Speaker 3:I don't know what it's. I I kind of said to myself when I left that environment. Obviously it's the environment that was the problem, not the job. I loved that job. I actually did so well at it and it was really amazing. I would love to put my expertise into the world. I'm trying to run a business. Cute flu. I'm trying to run a business. You are running a business. I am running a business. Sorry, I am running a business. A run a business. Cute flu. I'm trying to run a business.
Speaker 1:You are running a business, I am running a business sorry, I am running a business, a really good business.
Speaker 3:And I actually do say to myself why am I procrastinating every day when I know exactly the right thing to do? Because I've got the mindset, I've got the skill, but I almost I think I've said to you both before I am so good at thinking it, but putting it down and getting it out properly on paper or verbally just doesn't come natural to me.
Speaker 2:So I don't know where to go. I know that you didn't come here for business coaching or for career coaching, but I'm going to let you have it Right, Because I've been sat here going just have a sip of water. Okay.
Speaker 1:I've been waiting for you to deliver.
Speaker 4:We went on a little like sidetrack.
Speaker 1:I've been waiting for you to hit it on home.
Speaker 4:Come on, vanessa oh, now we're not serious, because vanessa's out.
Speaker 2:Yeah you need to have two businesses.
Speaker 2:Here we go you need epiphany closet and you need a consultancy business, when your consultancy goes in and helps corporate companies restructure and support women in menopause, firstly. Secondly, you need to do something with tendering. Yeah, okay, that's where I'm at, because I think you will get the value you're looking for in a job, but high revenue as well. You'll be able to charge what you're worth, but you will also have the connection with other humans that you're looking for, but it'll be on your terms still, but you still get this beautiful value that you get from Epiphany Closet. But marry the two together.
Speaker 1:Oh wow, You've got your first tender client here. I cannot stress enough. I have gone in for a tender that is so fucking large. I don't know what happened to me on Saturday.
Speaker 4:It's for 100 grand.
Speaker 2:Shit the best. This is so fucking exciting. Can you please tell me about this?
Speaker 3:I've just caught my trousers. I need to readjust my seat. I've got butterflies.
Speaker 2:How did we spend the whole afternoon together? We didn't talk about this yesterday.
Speaker 1:I've been a subscriber and set up on pro-contracting for fuck knows how long I get these. They come through all the time and occasionally it's a bit quiet on Wildbird. I'll go in and have a look and go no, I can't, won't fit in that, I can't do that, I don't think I can do that. And this one came up and it's like for advertising marketing, like running their entire marketing. I've got goosebumps, me too.
Speaker 2:Oh my days. Their entire market goosebumps me too. Oh my god, do you know what's giving me more goosebumps? Is you fuckers working together? Because the problem you have right when we're working on our own is that little bit of self-doubt. Yeah that little voice in your head that goes oh, I don't want to go for this hundred I've applied for it and I I'm not sure I want to do this, but imagine if you just use superheroes but marry together a little bit.
Speaker 2:You will give her the strength she needs to go for this £100,000 contract and you will give her the strength she needs to go out there and get these wow, there we go again.
Speaker 1:Then sort of serendipitous moments where things just I don't know if I'm still like alright, I can't.
Speaker 3:I think the look for Mamie was.
Speaker 1:I don't really know enough about tendering. I worked with a client that won a lot of tender work, but I've never done anything well, it's so vast, isn't it?
Speaker 3:it's such a huge genre of areas there's so many.
Speaker 1:But I tell you, the bit that terrifies me the most is the fucking process. And what are you, the queen, at?
Speaker 3:I mean, yeah, processing we? I was the admin as well as my colleague behind the tenders please help me nessa I would love to help you it's an amazing so exciting the thing is what I know, I know that's lovely about tenders.
Speaker 3:I mean, actually I'm not gonna say they're lovely, they're hard work, because so much needs to go into them. It's, it's the end product. You know, you, when you're fighting for something that you want, yeah, it's you know. I mean, five years ago I didn't even know where tender was like a business plan, right, but sales business plan it's like you're you're fighting to win the competition. Yeah, you've got to show why your business is better than them other five.
Speaker 1:It's like a fucking proposal on steroids like it's next level, isn't it? And there's, there's the, the hoops that you have to jump through, that and that's what terrifies me a bit as well. It's like have I got the right criteria? Am I gonna?
Speaker 2:what am I gonna know?
Speaker 1:right, yeah, and actually are you good enough?
Speaker 3:you worry that is it good enough? Because I know, as our company you'd think, well, there's not many people in our what we did in our industry.
Speaker 2:So there was a really high but, there will be yes, shit, but then you've just got to do the research on them, get your ITV experience all over that shit.
Speaker 3:Oh, 100%. You've got that, that's just absolutely. Please help me.
Speaker 1:So you were saying Sorry back. That's just one tiny element of your new business, that you've already got your first client.
Speaker 3:So consultancy and menopause and helping workplaces.
Speaker 1:Can you?
Speaker 3:imagine.
Speaker 4:Do you know?
Speaker 3:what. My heart melts just the thought how involved I am in the Epiphany Closet with the menopause community.
Speaker 1:Right. Move that mic out of the way. Move that mic out of the way. Stand up. Move the mic out of the way. Oh, here we go. What?
Speaker 3:are you doing? How many times this year have you made me stand up?
Speaker 2:Stand up. Hello, how tall are you Ness?
Speaker 3:Well, I was six foot, but I'm 5'11 now.
Speaker 1:Oh, you're losing some. Yeah yeah, classic, yeah, yeah, I can't lose the inches rather than the height.
Speaker 3:But that's life. What?
Speaker 1:are you going to do? What are we going to call?
Speaker 4:her.
Speaker 1:Just close your eyes for a second. What are we going to call her? Like what their business? I am a menopause stand up, stand up I am the menopause warrior and I come in and what do you do?
Speaker 3:I'm going to fix your business and make women feel empowered, that you can talk about menopause and work alongside the men and build the community of men. Women understanding what comes within business, working with women in pairing menopause and menopause yeah, mate, that was so easy, like that was
Speaker 2:educating. Isn't it educating? But also building that community within a company, so that people feel supported and engaged, but also how to get the most out of those people your story, though, like what you have been through and all of that challenge and all of the work that you did when you would just get met with resistance look, I've done this.
Speaker 1:I've done this research. This is what we need to do.
Speaker 3:This is how we solve the problem yeah, it's a full-on fucking load of rejection. We know you think about it as a kid.
Speaker 1:You get rejected it is, but look at the resilience that it's built and look at the experience that it's given you. That will allow you to make you the expert in the room well, this is going to slightly spook you out.
Speaker 3:Leanne and I met for leanne, the midwife we met, we went to the gym on friday and had a quick coffee yeah, never a quick coffee no. Five hours later and this wonderful woman that I know she's destined for her own little midwife consultancy. I just know I know why is she not doing it? I?
Speaker 3:don't know, it's good this is your sign it's coming. She's going to be our fourth warrior. She said to me have you thought about going into consultancy and doing your own menopause? Oh, for fuck's sake. She said this on Friday, right? Okay, this is someone that hasn't got any confidence in herself. Bless her to go and do it. And I said I'd love to Leanne. I said, but I think I needed to go for that and that's what stopped me wow, that's what's done yeah where's your bullshit buzzer?
Speaker 2:oh, oh wait hold on ready.
Speaker 1:Is it bullshit? I thought consultancy bullshit, I'm not. Uh, I didn't go to uni, went straight fresh out, went straight to gmtv when I was 18 years old. I did not go to university and I consult with clients all you're doing is putting something.
Speaker 2:I'm not quite educated enough for that, but it's a life experience. You just need to figure out who your people are. Yeah, and you need a case study. Probably you need to go and work, find a company that is like on the verge or looking to grow, so you can try it I've always known that I need to help people.
Speaker 3:I said earlier it's part of me yeah um, and when you're trying to help somebody, or even them as a company, like I'm not to go back to them too much, but it was genuinely a good from a good place, yeah, always a little vision for you.
Speaker 2:Imagine if it goes full circle and they end up bringing you in as a consultant. I just thought of that.
Speaker 3:I got a little vision then I mean they wouldn't, because most of the couple that don't like me would never have me back there. But in terms of the bigger picture, I yeah, that is just what they need. How many?
Speaker 1:people in your network? Do you know that run businesses of this size?
Speaker 3:as in where I work, it could be your potential clients. Oh, I know quite a few 10?. I would say probably 5 to 10. I could probably get my hands on that, say I think you need this, your help. In fact, I was talking to one of my kids the other day and I said, god, I'd love to get in there and fix it go on then that's your first one do you know what one is for me schools yeah that sounds really random. No, it's not, because kids don't have menopause.
Speaker 2:No, it's where you affect change.
Speaker 3:That's where the teachers are If you teach a child when you're having a raw day A raw day yeah. I call them raw days which is quite often 30 kids. When you've got a menopausal teacher or just wants to go and have a cry, you go into a school and I can promise you they're not educated, them teachers or them headmasters. They're still called that principal. They're not educated on how to manage their staff you know, and what their needs are.
Speaker 3:Jesus, I just feel like I've just written my first Proposal. Yeah God, how weird. Amazing, isn't it? It is weird.
Speaker 2:This is what I love about conversations, yeah, and this is why we need that. It's those boardroom chats, isn't it?
Speaker 1:it's the water cooler moment.
Speaker 3:I think it's hard I think I scare myself because I worry that I've worked so hard on the epiphany closet and it's like going back to work. I feel like I'd be letting it go and I'm almost I'm not going to say embarrassed because I'm not that sort of person, but I've worked so hard on it and I am so passionate about it. I would be gutted to not have that and I do struggle with doing two things at once.
Speaker 2:That's my brain but then you'd have to dedicate x amount of time for epiphany closet or outsource it. You come up with a design, you can outsource it dictate what t-shirts and drop ship it anyway and then do your other stuff well, it's funny, but my brother-in-law, huge businessman, successful, didn't go to uni why is? Why is it? Do we have that own resistance in ourselves where?
Speaker 4:we always go culture.
Speaker 2:I'm not sure if I'm smart enough because I always think of that big corporate company and I think that's the vision you had when you were talking about that. And actually the people you're working with are not that big London law firm. They're regular companies that take care of their people and give a shit oh yeah, and there must be.
Speaker 3:I just haven't worked one yeah, but he said to me once when I first started the business. He said look and it wasn't a negative to say it wasn't going to work, it was. He said, what will happen in your business?
Speaker 4:you'll start this up and it may or may not work, but what it will do, it will lead you on to something else and he said you've always got to have that in mind and if that one doesn't work, it will lead on to another one and I've always taken that on board not as a negative really valuable, but as a really positive and obviously it's credible coming from
Speaker 1:a successful businessman. Yeah well, is he not someone you're going to talk to about the menopause warrior program being rolled out and quite a few units down the southwest.
Speaker 3:Quite a few female employees going on holiday with him next week.
Speaker 2:Maybe I'll have to chat maybe he could be your trial one.
Speaker 1:Your case study could be my mentor this is so exciting, so I would never want you to walk away from this feeling. Oh my God, we have now just come up with a whole new fucking business. What the fuck am I going to do? What are your actionable steps from here?
Speaker 3:Squeaky bottom.
Speaker 1:Well, yeah, no, I know it's probably squeaky bottom, but I just want to, I want you to. I don't want that empowerment feeling and this like incredible lightbulb goosebump feeling to turn into overwhelm the minute you get into your car what are we going to do this week to edge towards that vision?
Speaker 3:I think in that sort of situation it's going away from it and having that notepad out yes, get a new one I will. I'll get that notebook and I know I mean I've got two meetings tomorrow. I've got a really busy week yep, wedding, hairdo, holiday, yeah but I'm gonna find time but you don't need to do like.
Speaker 2:You just need to write some notes and do a bit of framework.
Speaker 1:Yeah but also you're about to go on holiday, which is going to give you this beautiful gift of creative thinking. Don't force it, but I just want to. I didn't. I really don't want you to get to that overwhelm. Oh my god, I've gone for this fucking interview on the podcast and now I've got another fucking business to set up.
Speaker 3:Welcome actually I do strive on being pushed, not pushed, but I think that's probably what I'm missing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because it's amazing. That's the difference when you're working with someone, though.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and. I'm not being so. No more indeed, oh, okay.
Speaker 3:Look at that. God, that's whole chimp, isn't it that?
Speaker 1:little chimp sitting there going. Fuck that chimp, I know, flick that off but it is, it will.
Speaker 3:It's that when you've had so much rejection, yeah, and actually I and this is not me feeling sorry for myself I haven't had that person going oh my god, you're gonna. You can do this. The only two people have done that, probably in my life, are you two and the end.
Speaker 3:Yeah, she's yeah, I mean, actually that's really wrong. I've had a lot of support in this business. I can't tell you how much support I've had, but in terms of like actual business, I'm going way out of my comfort zone because this was hard, epiphany closet, but it was. It's manageable yeah anyone can do it. I'm going to be honest yeah, of course but what we're talking about now, that's way out of my comfort zone, which is what I need but you've done it already but yeah but it's exciting, I have done already.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's right, you know you're. It's so weird to work for a corporate person, but you've done it.
Speaker 1:You did it and all you're doing is picking up what you did in that business and you're selling it as a service yes, it's crazy, it's just.
Speaker 3:It's just hearing, isn't it? And?
Speaker 2:actually that sort of service is not going to be a LinkedIn.
Speaker 1:Oh God, you feel so much better. You're not going to be searching for jobs.
Speaker 2:Yeah, this is a LinkedIn community, building a community and doing posts. This isn't like selling your wares and worried about advertising.
Speaker 4:No.
Speaker 2:That can still happen, crazy shit.
Speaker 1:And Amy is right, you can outsource quite a lot of the epiphany if you wanted to. Really yeah, I suppose.
Speaker 3:Dropship. A lot of people have talked to me about dropship and I've had a lot of people contact me actually on Facebook Messenger saying do you dropship?
Speaker 2:Well, I asked you if you were doing my uniform.
Speaker 3:Well, I've actually got a guy that I bumped into who lives two minutes around the corner because he's going to do some embroidery work for me. They said why do you do it yourself? It's really stressful. I said I know it's really stressful. It's also really fucking hot. I was cooking doing them t-shirts and you need that right now.
Speaker 3:Yeah yeah, it's a little bit more of a hard do, but it is, and actually I think for me it's always been oh yeah, but that's part of the epiphany closet, doing it myself. Homemade created at home yeah, is it no?
Speaker 2:I don't think it is no creations. It's the energy that goes into what people wear and their values and their feelings on their clothing. Right yeah? They're not what was the saying we came up with at the marketing day.
Speaker 3:You wear your Well, you are what you wear. And God, why am I going to have a brain fart right now?
Speaker 2:It's something to do with wearing your feelings or emotions, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, I can see it. Or emotions isn't it?
Speaker 3:it's on my website. What is wrong with me?
Speaker 2:share your thoughts where you're feeling, there we go.
Speaker 3:I mean, it was only the first thing I ever thought of in my business but that's where the value comes for you.
Speaker 2:You can outsource that shizzle easily wooden spoon up.
Speaker 3:Go on then so imagine.
Speaker 1:Are you a visual person we love?
Speaker 3:this shit, don't we? I've got a vision board. You are a visual person. I'm very much a vision board. Right, okay, cool.
Speaker 1:So, when we are thinking about the Epiphany Closet and this really cool new consultative work that you're going to be doing, you're going to be paid megabucks to do this. Yeah, no doubt about that. Well, you can set your price Whatever you want it to be Right.
Speaker 2:Just just get comfortable with that. For a second, what consultancy tender consultants? Yeah, the menopause stuff.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I don't know, and I know there's a lot of work going on in menopause in general and medical space and yeah, not necessarily in business no, no, not that I know imagine if you could go into nhs and affect change at that level and how they deliver their menopause services just as a little side note. But just to get you coming, I'm going to say it again this is going to earn you megabucks. Epiphany Closet is going to continue, but instead of spending 50 quid on an advertising campaign on socials and seeing how hard it will work, you'll be able to spend 30 grand.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I can see it now. Yeah, I can see it.
Speaker 2:But you need to do that drop shipping and get that in place so that when you earn these big bucks you can put it into that.
Speaker 1:Yeah you need your process, okay, but it's less you, less in the kitchen, no, no, no person.
Speaker 2:No, all you creative holidays on your on the yacht that you're going on fabulous, thinking about the quotes that you want to put on there from conversations that you've had. You're not going to get those conversations in your kitchen pressing. No, you're right. And then we're going to go and rent some space somewhere and work together once a month. Oh, that would be a mess Once a month.
Speaker 3:I want more than that love, I do.
Speaker 2:I probably want once a week. Yeah, you do, don't you?
Speaker 3:My sister said something really. People's opinions, as you may have noticed, really affect me People's, whether negative or positive. I really strive on people's opinions and I think that comes from a bit of lack of self-confidence. But my sister said something really cute the other day and while I was down there she said I know you're not a coach, but why don't you do something with menopause to help people? Yes, because you're so good, yes, at talking about it and sharing it. Yes, I'm not. You know, I don't want to be a counsellor. I'm too emotionally attached to people I was going to say something, but um, it's probably not pc.
Speaker 3:So yeah, I'm not. You know, I can barely go past a dead fox on the road without bursting into tears but, in a structural way, in a, in a consultant way, in a firm business.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you can be a different person yeah, but this is all about it's still being you and sharing your experiences. But you get in, you deliver, you impart the knowledge and then you fuck off.
Speaker 2:Yeah and then check in on again.
Speaker 3:Yeah, they're doing wow isn't it weird how I've always, there's always been something in my mind for, I'd say, probably 15 years. Yeah, consultancy work, yeah, I talk about it all the time. I think it's just that belief, isn't it?
Speaker 1:So now we just need to do it.
Speaker 3:Hmm.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so how you would write a tender? That framework would be the same framework for a business plan. Yeah, so put some meat on the bones and just put like what is you want to offer? Who's your target audience?
Speaker 3:the stuff we've done at marketing, and then just let it grow, let it fester, let it build well, the interesting thing about tenders is the professionals that wrote the tenders physically wrote the tenders in my old company were obviously product specialists so you're specialized in that product?
Speaker 3:yeah, which obviously what we did was was huge research. You didn't need to go to university for it, you needed to have worked there for four years to learn the product yeah. So having had so many years of experience seeing them being written, it just makes me realize this. There's so many areas that tenders are written and this you just learn about it on.
Speaker 1:It's a bit of a learn on the job sort of thing yeah, but you don't, you, because what you've done is so in-depth and so niche and so specialist in your old role. I don't think you'll have any challenge with helping me guide me to write a tender for marketing because it's your experience and your expertise so you're going yeah, nick, this is where you need this. You need to spend time on this. Fix is really fucking important. Don't worry about that bit I'll. I can help you with this bit.
Speaker 3:You can outsource this like all of that is that's what I need help with the e-coaster because, god, they're really interested in the sustainability. You know that was such a big part of our tender writing. Yeah, it's a real.
Speaker 2:It's a real challenge but it's really rewarding yeah, especially because you're writing your tenders with your own integrity and your own values as a business. Yeah, and if you get that job, you win that contract based on your company ethos and values. Like how special oh yeah, totally that's.
Speaker 3:I can't believe you've actually done that in a plot. I feel so, so pleased that you've, because a massive jump, but it's it's. If you don't take risks, you're just never gonna know. Are you, and that's what about hello. I love it when you two are like this little pair. Right, it's a bit like laurel and Hardy, but it's a lovely one. You sit there.
Speaker 2:I am quite quiet.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I can see you ticking, because this is how I know you were. And then you sit there looking really surprised and bemused and go here, she goes.
Speaker 2:Yep, here comes a clanger well, what I'm thinking is why don't you do a trade swap? Yeah, you help her with her tender to get one on the go. Yeah, you help her build the framework of who her client is for her menopause.
Speaker 3:It's a great idea. It's a great idea.
Speaker 2:You're fucking welcome. What the fuck are you going to do in this? Can I put that?
Speaker 3:on a t-shirt. You're fucking welcome. You're fucking welcome. Yes, I love it.
Speaker 2:I am a menopause warrior.
Speaker 3:Fuck me, yeah. Menopause warrior fuck me yeah.
Speaker 2:well, I mean bloody hell. I feel like I've got it all under control. Touch wood, what's the best thing for you? What's been the best thing for you? Hrt alcohol, no sorry actually the opposite, not alcohol is awful, isn't it? Awful, horrendous, because it gives you the old beer fear, doesn't it next day like anxiety?
Speaker 3:anxiety after the anxiety the week in devon, sorry, a couple weeks ago I other than I think I had like COVID after we all had bugs. Oh no, then I had an infection. So blah, blah, blah. You know it just wiped me out for two weeks. So I can't drink a lot in menopause. So what?
Speaker 2:did you say what do I have? What's your best treatment?
Speaker 1:So I've got a couple of friends that love the gel. Yeah, I have the gel inside of the, so either in your, thighs or between.
Speaker 3:What does it do? Release the hormone. So you're replacing your oestrogen because obviously I've got no ovaries and even if you have got ovaries, as you obviously get older from the age of 30, whatever it could be any age in your late 30s you'll you lose the oestrogen levels in your body, so that replaces it. I put it over here or between my legs, on my thighs, sounds much better slathering it on and then I use.
Speaker 3:I only got given testosterone a few months ago, maybe last year. It's quite harsh on your body and my levels were depleted. I got told I had none. Wow, which makes sense for a lot of my moods and that's where the high emotion comes from.
Speaker 2:If you haven't got enough testosterone, high emotion, lack of libido, not that I would have known anyway.
Speaker 3:Um, but yeah, brain fog, all the things you need to function. Apparently only men have testosterone. You know, we all know that's not true yeah so I have a little bit of testosterone on my belly twice a week. What does it? How does that so that, just basically because it's a quick release, so any gel goes straight into your bloodstream oh, it's another gel.
Speaker 3:It's another gel and if you can imagine, if you'd have said to me four months ago come and do this podcast maybe a bit longer about, I would have said absolutely, not absolutely. I can't even function. I still do say and think the wrong things, but I couldn't even put two words together. You know, if you'd you'd have said to me doing this new business six months ago, I would genuinely have done it, but it makes you feel like you're losing your mind, doesn't it?
Speaker 3:I on the darkest of darkest of days. I actually spoke to someone in a charitable place and said I don't know whether I can carry on like this. This is not a fun place to be. Menopause is. Too many people take their life because they don't know what they're going through and the doctors will just whack you on a bunch of antidepressants. It's a really, really unspoken thing and I'm so chuffed to be working with so many amazing women that are doing stuff for menopause, because your children need to know about it.
Speaker 3:Your husband needs to know about it.
Speaker 1:Can I just share. I think it's wonderful that so many more women are talking about it. I really do, but I'm scared like I'm really scared for it to start happening to me because I don't have the knowledge at all or the education and you wouldn't at 36 either, would you because?
Speaker 3:yeah, but I need to learn about it at all.
Speaker 2:I remember speaking to my nan about it and she was like oh yeah, we just, we just didn't talk about it, we just knew what was going on. We gave each other like a little wink. So you're right, you survived. My mum said the same the other day.
Speaker 3:She's 70 and you know, I think our parents are the same age sort of area. And she said we did. I remember my mum going through it when she was 50.
Speaker 3:It looking back I'm thinking, wow, she did go through it yeah she never got given hrt and she's even told now I put something on to dr louise newman today in a message she's been rejected for menopausal treatment. Sorry hrt now at 70. There's no reason. I would love I will have to send this link to this woman that got given all hrt at the age of 70, got taken off of antidepressants. She walked back into the doctor's clinic and she's got a new lease of life.
Speaker 1:I read it and cried.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and that's 70. And I mean I'm 47. I honestly can't tell you there's nothing to be scared of because you've got so many people around you now.
Speaker 1:That can help you, but I feel fortunate. You're fortunate, yeah, because it is so spoken about? Isn't it yeah?
Speaker 3:yeah, you know, we've got you.
Speaker 1:You'll be fine, you'll have years and I know and I'm so grateful for that, but I feel for a lot of women that aren't in that fortuitous position and women that have been through it and been on their own.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, and actually, sadly, I do know somebody that took their own life who was a bit older than me, one of my daughter's best friends, mum, and there was other issues as well, but I can 100 guarantee the factors of how you feel. Yeah, in menopause you, you feel like you're losing control. It's a whole. Oh, my god, having just had like such young children and hope.
Speaker 1:Being a year old, I know what it feels like to have your hormones completely out of your control and to feel like desperate but not but not knowing that it, like it's a physiological reaction inside your body. You've got no control over whatsoever.
Speaker 3:But going through that and not having the knowledge to help yourself, yeah that's terrifying I think it's the most unspoken, I think the empowerment that people are bringing to it now it actually this sounds really dramatic, but I feel like by the time I get old and leave this world. Yeah, if I see how we're growing now with our children that are going to be so fortunate, to help and us in our nature, then I feel like you've done your work here is done.
Speaker 1:You know what I mean.
Speaker 3:Just I'm so grateful that you've made a difference yeah, but, but also seeing all the other women make the difference. You know, going on that menopause mandate walk, yeah, it just opened a whole new era up for me, a whole new life of believing that you don't have to just grow old in your chair and get osteoporosis and creaky, bloody knees. But, you know, go back to netball, all these things that we just need to get out there. Yeah, you know, and we've got the power to do it with social media well, and you and me and actually look at that present tense.
Speaker 3:Wasn't that delightful amazing, but actually it's a real factor. It's a real contender of educating your family, educating you ready, because you don't. It's like a bus. In my story I shared it on my business. It's like having an uninvited friend over and just wanting to tell them to fuck off. Really it just hits you. Honestly, it's it's it's life-changing.
Speaker 2:But I listened to an incredible poddy on steven bartlett's.
Speaker 3:He's really up there? Actually, no, I did delete it for a while. It annoyed me.
Speaker 2:He really annoyed me too. We've had these conversations.
Speaker 3:But he's upped it up again now has he.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I didn't like it when he was doing all his sponsorship ones.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's probably what I was feeling then it was too science-y.
Speaker 2:I the sponsors of Whoop and I'm on the board and I'm an investor.
Speaker 3:Has he brought it back? Because if he has, I'll get back to him.
Speaker 2:Big time he done Simon Cowell. That was really interesting, right, but he had that lady that's the nuclear war specialist.
Speaker 3:That's my stop list. Fascinating, no see, that's what actually Did it. Scare you? Yeah, I can't cope with stuff like that.
Speaker 1:Right, okay, was sharing it with me yesterday.
Speaker 3:Too much for me, but I was quite happy with the way that she, I, I don't want it to be like it's different, isn't it, when you're sharing something, that you can take little snippets? Yeah, it's rather than this yeah if you so many people listen to that, that are in a really low place. Yeah, I did listen to some of it. Yeah, but for anyone that is totally fear in, fear of that sort of thing, that's that's tipping over the edge, sort of stuff.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean it was educational. It's really interesting. I found it fascinating, Scary, really scary. But also I kind of thought, well, we wouldn't know about it anyway, I'm not going to build a bunker, because I don't want to live after that anyway.
Speaker 3:No.
Speaker 2:I'm out. Like, take me Fine.
Speaker 1:I can live with like 75. Yeah, yeah, you wouldn't know about it Exactly.
Speaker 2:However, he did do one with a lady specialising in menopause and that was fascinating. And because I like how inquisitive he is, he was asking so many questions because he was genuinely curious about what his partner's going to experience with this. But it's fascinating when she explained the different stages and that everyone thinks perimenopause is just the beginning, but actually that's when you're going through the menopause.
Speaker 4:The word men no way.
Speaker 2:Yeah, baby, it's fascinating.
Speaker 3:I'll stick it in the show notes.
Speaker 2:It's fascinating.
Speaker 3:How many people I can't mention who said this, because I love this person. I said, oh, she's going through some health problems at the moment and she said I think I've got it. Oh yeah, and that really stood out in my mind. I thought you haven't got it, it's not and this is what people are believing it is. Oh, I've got menopause and it's a really, it's a real shame, isn't it? You haven't got it. It's you're going through your next transition in life and actually there's so many positive sides of going through menopause because I'm in the most fantastic era of realization I'm going through my midlife and I've never had such wisdom.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I've never been so full of wisdom. I mean, obviously there's a lot of crap that comes with it, so that's why it's really important to get on the medication before even 2% away from it. You've got to get on it ready you know, you've got to know the signs. Yeah, because there's a lot of doctors out there that aren't willing to give you it.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And not everyone could afford to go privately.
Speaker 2:A friend of mine has to buy her gel privately.
Speaker 1:So Richard, who's one of my clients that Wild Bird works with, he did a podcast in lockdown where he just utilised his network and his most popular episode by far is about menopause Wow.
Speaker 4:And this is a man in construction.
Speaker 3:Well, it's talked about, isn't it?
Speaker 4:People need this information.
Speaker 3:And actually if you think of the business side of it say Parliament and all these women that are running for Parliament that are probably in their 40s, maybe going- through it. Unless you've got. If you have got a really supportive husband, you're really lucky, you know, because that's one of the biggest things that you need. It's everywhere. These women that are walking around London today are there to shout at the Parliament again Menopause mandate have, and it was Mariella Fostrop who I spoke about she's the one that started this menopause mandate and, oh my God, look how it's now.
Speaker 3:It's everywhere. It's in the Parliament chat. You've now got a policy where you can work from home and request to work from home if you're having anxiety and mental health due to menopause, which I was denied. That's the whole point of me leaving all of these things people don't know about, but they need to know and I'm going to bloody give it to them yes, it's just, and tell these companies what they should do for the men as well, the men working the company.
Speaker 3:Some of them have got their wives going through it yeah god, if you're telling me to stop crying, what are you telling your wife?
Speaker 1:yeah, this is such an essential knowledge and education that's going to make a difference to everyone.
Speaker 2:Well, there is not one human that it's not going to affect whether it's a loved one, partner, friend that's a huge point. It's a huge one person will not be affected by menopause no, and actually, why not start from a young age?
Speaker 3:why are we waiting till you get into the height of it? You know? Why are we not? You've got sex education at school, right? You're going to get a period. You're going to need some sanitary towels. Well, well that's obvious yeah, and by the way you're going to your, your p, your pmt is going to be so bad that you might not be able to come to school because you doubled over in pain. It needs to start from the scratch yeah, but no one talks about hormone.
Speaker 2:I feel like, no, no, I mean willow's going through it now, because she's obviously just turned nine. Her hormones are raging, her whores are moaning, as my friend kate would say. Your whores are moaning. Yeah, willow's definitely going through it. But I spoke to my auntie. Actually she messaged me and she said how's Willow doing? I was like, oh, she's okay, she just has these massive rage tantrums like she's really struggling to regulate and we've spoken to her teacher and stuff about it. But actually they talk a lot about hormones at school. Now that's so important. They've had lots of conversations about it. But my auntie Tish said, oh yeah, her granddaughter started her period just before, like when she was nine, nine and a half.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I know a few girls I went to school with.
Speaker 2:That did and I was like yeah, I think if she's struggling so much with hormones now, she will be that person that will start earlier but then also, if you start early, you tend to go through the menopause earlier they say that, yes, I mean obviously.
Speaker 3:I mean I was very late, I was 16 and then obviously my menopause was forced, right. But looking at my sort of sister and mum, yeah, I would say that's probably. You know, I think my mum was 50. That's quite early really, because some people don't go through to their late 50s yeah, and this is the thing. It's such a wide area. It can start from mid-30s it can start any age and hormones need to be spoken about.
Speaker 4:So it's so important for the men to have empathy towards it it's amazing how many many men have not had that.
Speaker 3:No, no, not at all, and it's not okay to talk about hormones. Me and my son, my youngest son, I've done all the birds in the beads.
Speaker 2:Beads Just the bees, just the bees, just the bees. I think it's really important, but I think these conversations need to stop being taboo and we need to talk more about the whores are moaning.
Speaker 1:I feel like Matt Billum deserves a fucking medal for how crazed I was with Hulu.
Speaker 2:Well you think about baby blues, or you think about postnatal hormones and all of that. No, it is crazy. I've had conversations with Martin. I'm like, I am a woman, I am a bag of hormones and they change throughout my life and you're going to see like 10 different versions of me in our relationship. So let's just suck it up. It's so true isn't it?
Speaker 3:Do relationship, so let's just suck it up. It's so true, isn't it? I don't know if there's one thing I've always wanted to do and maybe this is where this is all coming from with this whole business thing I've always wanted to just stand up, literally stand up on a freaking huge podium yeah, in front of thousands of people and say what are we doing?
Speaker 3:why are we not helping each other? Why is this still happening? I'm one of them sort of people. I just don't feel like I'm getting heard and I can't shout loud enough. You're gonna be, you're gonna be heard well, do you know what it would be lovely? And that podium vision, thank you needs to stay.
Speaker 2:That podium vision needs to stay, because you've already you've already visualized that it's gonna happen I have. I want to be a motivational speaker I want to be able to tell people that I follow so many motivational speakers. We're going to do a TED Talk. A TED Talk, do a talk about menopause and what we need to do to change the workplace.
Speaker 3:Oh, that would be amazing. I think you know I've just literally had three visualisations in the space of two minutes.
Speaker 2:My brain is like wow, Can you get that notepad and write those visualisations?
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I'm fucking excited for you I think this is epic.
Speaker 3:I do you know what? Every time I come away from you, I have a big to-do list but how I remembered it after. You know our last social, but I do and I think we all do. You know you both have got such exciting things. You know your franchise. Every time I go into I look at my nails and I'm thinking why have you not got one near me?
Speaker 1:Yeah, there is one coming.
Speaker 3:Good, because I get, isn't there.
Speaker 1:What.
Speaker 3:Bedford.
Speaker 1:Is there Maybe?
Speaker 3:I mean, I'm not Bedford but I'm willing to travel a very long way to get my bloody nails done and I get so excited looking at all your stuff. Do you know? It's just lovely. I tell my friends about you guys. You know you don't many people think they're probably not interested.
Speaker 3:I don't care, I'm gonna tell you that lovely ladies that you know I'm going on a podcast with which I didn't share my story today, but yeah, like working together with you guys is just, and friendships that form a community so do you know what?
Speaker 2:I think there's something really magical about lifting each other and supporting each other, but also giving each other a little bit of a boot. Yeah, like, stop fawning around, will you?
Speaker 3:oh god, yeah. And if anyone needs that boot because I live at my own ass, I'm sorry but I do and we all do.
Speaker 3:Yeah, but actually someone said something really lovely and it was just a case of simple, something simple be kind and lift people If we were all, if everyone was just a kinder version don't get me wrong, we all have our woes and our forebores but if everyone was kind and lifted each other up, we wouldn't have all this awful, you know, sort of stereotypical noise shit that's going on everywhere. But it's simple and it's free and it really pisses me off that people don't do it.
Speaker 2:I think there's a lot more people that do do it. That is getting bigger, I think.
Speaker 4:Unfortunately, social media is like the devil it's got when it comes yes, it's because it's so fake.
Speaker 3:I think social media is so hard and it's a whole conversation, the whole look at me and the whole conversation, the fakeness of it.
Speaker 2:It drives the whole look at me and the whole like comparisonitis and all of that jazz, when actually you're not in there. The people that give a shit and that are helping are not the ones putting that on their social media, the dickheads that are putting that shit on social media look what I've done. Look at me. They're not doing it for the right reasons I.
Speaker 1:I subscribe to someone who is an online trainer and she shares how to set up your online training to be successful, and she shared something incredible and it was something's happened to me this week where instagrams thought that I was the 2007 version of myself and I wanted to set up a new course, so I started being served all of these cookies. And she shared that she's protected her Instagram space to only be about house renos, updates on kids. It's really, really safe space. There's nothing to do with work on there, because the minute that she has anything to do with online training, instagram starts serving her this really toxic content that impacts her own performance.
Speaker 1:So, when we talk about socials, I think having that mindfulness of the things that are good for you and the things that aren't, and creating that space where the algorithm protects you and nurtures you, rather than destroys your confidence, oh, totally 100%. It was really interesting for me to see it. It's such a learning. So I was like fuck, I've never thought about it in that way before.
Speaker 3:Well, I think you would, because you see so many people succeed on Instagram and they want you to see that, and only this week. And this is this was the whole point of me going back to work, because I kept looking at it and I'm thinking well, I've got to do that.
Speaker 4:I'm not doing enough, I'm not successful. I'm not.
Speaker 3:You're making me feel like I'm failing so you need a pair dare I give you my time to keep putting all this stuff? It's almost like you're begging for people's custom and I am not that sort of person to to be desperate. There's so many things I could do on social media to draw in more custom over my dead body. Will I beg? Or also with or without your energy, isn't it?
Speaker 3:yeah, it totally is and actually it's not just that I don't. I don't believe in being that crass person that goes oh my god, I've got a five-figure business. I mean, I have got a five-figure business. You know so a lot of people yeah, but it doesn't.
Speaker 2:But five, six, seven-figure businesses are all very different at different ends of the spectrum, yeah, and who's in profit and who's not, all that right you could have a 10-figure business. It don't mean it's making any money and that's the side of it. I don't like the falseness there's too much, but we bang on about it all the time.
Speaker 2:I do I get so irritated by it. But I hate the faintness. I hate it when people are like look at me, and that's what I mean. If you're out there doing good and just being kind, you're not going to be shouting about it, you're just going to be getting on and doing and I want to protect that and really nurture these little group that we're growing of just like kicking you up the ass, but also loving each other. We don't have to shout about that, do we?
Speaker 1:no, no, one lovely stuff thank you, team.
Speaker 2:Wait to hear what you do with all this fabulous thanks, arlene bye.
