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Wild Moos
Welcome to Wild Moos, the no-holds-barred podcast where the boardroom meets the playroom.
Hosted by Amy of Mooeys and Nicole from Wild Bird Marketing, this podcast dives into the messy, joyful, and often chaotic life of being a mother and a business owner.
Every episode is a candid exploration of the trials and triumphs that come with juggling spreadsheets and sippy cups.
From start-up stories that defy the "perfect mum" myth to scaling a business without sacrificing sanity, Amy and Nicole share it all.
Expect laughter, tears, and plenty of swear words as they peel back the curtain on what it really takes to thrive in the dual worlds of business and motherhood.
Wild Moos is a community, a confession booth, and your cheerleading squad all rolled into one.
Whether you're knee-deep in nappies, drafting business plans, or just dreaming about what could be, Wild Moos is the podcast for every mum who’s ever had to lock the bathroom door just to answer an email.
Tune in for your regular dose of inspiration, commiseration, and a reminder that you're not alone on this wild ride of entrepreneurship and motherhood.
Wild Moos
Wild Moos Podcast Episode 25: From Policing to Healing – Andy Rivers on Transformation, Coaching, and the Power of Reiki
What happens when a former custody sergeant trades his badge for a path of transformation and healing? Join us in conversation with the remarkable Andy Rivers, whose journey from policing the streets of Luton to becoming a coach and hypnotherapist offers a compelling narrative of resilience and growth. Familiar to many from "24 Hours in Police Custody," Andy shares incredible insights into the high-stress world of law enforcement and the empathetic approach that he brought to his role. His reflections on respect, dignity, and authenticity in policing provide a fresh perspective on the challenges faced by officers in diverse communities.
Shift gears as we explore Andy Rivers’ transition from a law enforcement career to empowering others through coaching, hypnotherapy, and Reiki. Discover the profound impact of mindset, language, and positivity on overcoming adversity and achieving personal and professional goals. Andy illustrates his journey post-policing, highlighting his impressive success rate in helping others unlock their potential. Through personal anecdotes, Andy reveals the powerful tools he's developed to inspire growth and self-awareness, blending his experiences as a custody sergeant with his passion for helping others.
Step into the transformative world of Reiki and writing, where Andy Rivers navigates the complexities of being a male practitioner in a predominantly female field. His unique story, from policing to healing, offers listeners a captivating blend of spiritual and professional insights. Andy’s ability to connect and communicate with authenticity comes to life through engaging stories, including his experiences from the television series to the intriguing process of writing a book that merges crime and healing. This episode promises not only to enlighten but also to inspire anyone on their own journey of transformation.
Nicole Bilham of WildBird Marketing Agency
https://wildbirdmarketing.co.uk/
Amy Lewis of The Mooeys Group
www.mooeys.co.uk | www.mooeysfranchise.co.uk | www.mooskin.co
Hello wonderful listeners, and allow me to introduce you to our latest episode with a wonderful guest called Andy Rivers. Andy used to be the custody sergeant at Luton Police Station and some of you may recognize his voice because he has featured on 24 Hours in Police Custody. But he's slightly more special than just being a TV star to us. He has a unique approach to the way that he polices, to the way that he communicates with individuals and how he approaches his life, bearing in mind the life that he's had, what he's come through and his experiences that he's had along the way. It's truly an inspirational and interesting listen, but we really hope you enjoy it and thank you so much, andy, for being honest, open and fabulous on our poddy. Welcome.
Speaker 1:Yay Welcome.
Speaker 3:Andy Rivers, Good morning. Good morning.
Speaker 1:Hello, hello. We have the fabulous Andy Rivers with us today.
Speaker 4:We've talked about you loads, I think, on this poddy as well, haven't we Yep Like proper fangirls?
Speaker 1:We are fangirls we are. I love Andy, so this came off the back of you doing your values last week.
Speaker 4:Yes, I did. It really was. I haven't typed up my. I haven't actually been in my office since then to type it all up, but it's made me look at things really differently and it's made me yeah, I'd done a post on LinkedIn about it, didn't I? And actually put my top values, and I've had quite a lot of feedback from that as well. I've had other people inquiring what does this mean? I've put it in a blog and sent it out to my customers as well.
Speaker 3:I saw that. I read it and it was actually very heartfelt Really. It shows how transparent you are as well because you've shared some powerful stuff there about you personally.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 3:It was a good session.
Speaker 4:I really want my clients to kind of and my franchise partners and my team to like. This is who I am, warts and all. I'm not hiding anything and if they like it then they'll like the brand type vibe. But I've never done that sort of work before on values or myself, and it was fascinating. I found it absolutely fascinating that the things I thought were going to come up actually didn't.
Speaker 3:yeah, and there was some unlocking in there as well.
Speaker 4:There was some unlocking in there, yeah, as well yeah, there was, yeah, there was a lot of like what drives me, what motivates me, and bringing mum into the mix as well. That was beautiful like powerful it was really powerful because I've always had this like I'm going to show you kind of attitude, but actually, what is my driver is this passion for doing it for my mum as well, which is just lush. So, thank you, great word.
Speaker 3:Lush, we've had a few good words this morning, yeah.
Speaker 4:I love the word yeah, I love the word lush. So thanks, andy, but is that something you specialise in?
Speaker 3:or is it something you and Nicole have done? Shall I give you a little bit of prezzy about where I've come from and that sort of thing? Yeah, yeah. So I joined the police I suppose an old age at 29 in 1995 and did quite a lot of my career at Luton, which was amazing Luton's rough though, isn't it? It's not rough, it's amazing it's rough though, isn't it?
Speaker 1:it's not rough, it's just got a different demand.
Speaker 4:I know that you leave both lutonians, but it is rough. There's a lot of diversity in there.
Speaker 3:There's lots of diversity in different cultures and communities and also different levels of income yeah, poverty and I get that it's like, but it's like rough but it's like in a london suburb, in a way, if you think about it, I guess.
Speaker 4:So yeah, it's close, isn't it suburb in a way, if you think about?
Speaker 3:it, I guess. So yeah, it's close, isn't it? Professional football team motorways, two motorways, airport, two big train service, you've got a lot of people travelling through town and I think every town I mean. If you go out to a smaller, a small town in the country, you're still going to have issues around gangs You're still going to have issues around drugs.
Speaker 3:It's just a case of, but that's what goes on. So so lutein, for me, from a grounding point of view, was amazing and working the majority of my time there I learned so much about people and about individuals and and how you can get on with people that sometimes don't necessarily want to get on with you. All too often we see people and if I'm gonna say, wearing a police uniform, you come with the police banner. Yeah.
Speaker 3:But we're not. We're all individuals within that uniform and they were good and bad in all walks of life. And for me it was one of my biggest intros, especially in confrontational situations, was look, forget the silly outfit I'm wearing. Her name's, Andy. Give me the chance to give you respect, because it's a two-way street here. Rather than you seeing me as you've seen every other copper. Yeah. Because if you've had a bad experience with a police officer, that's it.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 3:All police are the same and it's like being an individual.
Speaker 4:There is a bad rep as well, isn't there? There is.
Speaker 3:There is, but there's good and bad in everybody. I had a life before I joined the police, maybe a life that some people would say was I describe myself as having a foot in each camp. Okay. Because, where I've come from and the exposure I had before I joined the police to a different side of life.
Speaker 4:What is it? What was your previous life?
Speaker 3:Well, my previous life. In a nutshell for a while I left home at 15. Yeah, made some friends that perhaps you wouldn't normally make friends with, but what a grounding in life that was because I saw a different side of life and at that point there you realise who are you to judge anybody, because you don't know the circumstances, the life they're in. So I got to a stage where I had a choice of either starting to use Class A drugs because of the family that I inherited, if you like, or the family that I got involved in, or I had the choice not to. I didn't judge them because they were injecting. They gave me something I felt part of, so it was really, really important. I learned a lot so moving that into police.
Speaker 3:I never judge anybody for what they've done wow because who am I to judge for what's going on in their lives, for them to behave in the way that they have? Because none of us know and we are all one small step away from living on the street yeah you mean I've?
Speaker 3:always said bad decision, yeah, but if if my wife and I split up and I couldn't see my kids, it would. For me it would be the end. I couldn't live, live at home, I wouldn't go anywhere else. I'd probably end up on the street and I'd be one of these people that becomes a pain to society. All too often we judge these people that are sleeping rough and begging or whatever you don't know what's going on in their life. To put them, in that state.
Speaker 3:So who are we to judge? But I knew I had good morals and good values. I knew the difference between right and wrong, so I didn't take any drugs or anything along those lines, but the people that were around me were really, really important. So take that into policing. It gave me a whole new outlook, a whole new outlook when dealing with people, which gave me a skill, and I didn't realize until sort of like probably six years ago, eight years ago that by giving respect, the impact it can have on influencing other people's behaviors.
Speaker 3:I mean, I never forget one job I got sent to. It was we're going to arrest a person that's ultra violent and hates police and you've got to send a load of police officers. Well, you send a load of police officers to someone's door. They're gonna be anti, they're gonna be, they think it's gonna go wrong. So I would be the one that would go to the door on my own. I wouldn't have all these coppers with me. And yes, he's anti-police and he was anti-police. But I'm andy. Give me a chance to give you the respect that you deserve, because your involvement with police before probably may not have been a good experience. I'm giving you respect by coming here on my own, rather than bringing a load of police officers. You need to be nicked within a very short period of time. There's that trust, there's that relationship and people come out really it's the case of treating people.
Speaker 3:Give respect, give respect. Give respect. It doesn't stop you taking it away. What is wrong with respecting each other? Yeah giving it away because the power that comes with that treating people like human beings rather than actually having a stigma attached to them that, oh, they're burglars, they're robbers, they're drug, Whatever it might be they're still human beings, they're still individuals, and that's something that I've taken through all of my career. And then I say work in Luton. First you get a tutor constable, I'm going to relive something. Yeah.
Speaker 3:You get a tutor constable and I'm relive something. Yeah, you get a tutor constable and I'm in uniform. I'm in the car, it's late at night and we're in berry park part of luta in berry park and we're driving through and I've got my tutor constable or the tutor person looking after me, and I'm in the passenger seat.
Speaker 4:So is that the person that kind of signed you off?
Speaker 3:yes, yeah, you have a number of weeks where they have to watch and make sure that you give out a ticket and all I'm in the first ticket I give.
Speaker 3:I don't think I could write because my hands were shaking so much and we're driving through Berry Park the main part of Berry Park and my tutor turns around and goes. That person they own uses his name. He's a big drug dealer. We don't stop and talk to him unless there's a few of us. Well, I've only got three weeks out of training school, or let's stop him then. Challenge accepted.
Speaker 1:well, we and I went.
Speaker 3:Oh, let's stop him then.
Speaker 1:Challenge accepted.
Speaker 3:Well, we can't, we can't. I said, let's stop him In a beautiful VW, scirocco.
Speaker 3:So we're still going back to 96, 97. We had a VW Scirocco from memory and he goes, so he pulls it over and he's just like yeah, I said no, I'm getting out. Now I'm 29 years old, so I'm not a young kid. But I walked up to him and of course there's a little bit of non-verbal communication attitude as he undoes his window. Now my whole engagement was hi, I'm andy and I'm new to the police force. I've only just started. I've been told that potentially at some point our paths might cross and if you do, at least you'll know that I'll treat you with dignity and respect and I'll speak to you as a human being. But apart from that, pleased to meet you, shook his hand, got back in the car, end of do you think this has come from your background before police, though?
Speaker 4:yes, it has to yeah, because you like, but you've. You've been around people like this for years before.
Speaker 2:like him, like, so you're not intimidated by him because you know how they are and how they work.
Speaker 4:They are normal people, yeah.
Speaker 3:It's the same as the chief constable of Bedfordshire. Yeah, some people struggle to go up and speak to them, right, and I'll say them, because we've had a lady and we've had a man. Yeah. Right they. For the rank that they've achieved. That doesn't change them. Everything that we do, they still do.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, they're shit and they eat it. Exactly All of that stuff.
Speaker 3:They're no different. They deserve the respect for where they've got to. Yeah. But actually engagement is something.
Speaker 4:It's weird, isn't it? Well, it is. It's weird to see that hierarchy and the power.
Speaker 3:This bloke from Berry Park. I don't know whether it was six months later or a year later, so Marsh Farm is another area of Luton, oh yes, Right. It's a bad name and once again, if you think, about it as populated as it might be, and there are people in the flats and everything else. Most people there are good people. They've just had different strands of different lives, but they are happy.
Speaker 1:Well, aren't they? An uncle lived in marsh, but it's just a small number of people wherever you go yeah cause the issues.
Speaker 3:So, anyway, there was a car chase. We ended up in in axe close, by the garages, and of course it's pitch black. One of my biggest fears when I was in the police police was searching. Anything was pitch black. I hated it because I always had the fear that someone was going to jump out at you. But you can't walk away from it. It's so about policing you have to walk towards things rather than run away. There's lots of mind games that go on in yourself when you're walking towards something. But you know you've signed up and you're going to do it. So we're in Axe Close and everyone's like starburst and I'm in the garages.
Speaker 4:Starburst, wasn't it? They've just run off or something. They've just run off.
Speaker 3:They've all run off and the police are now sort of like filtering around. Right, I'm on my own in this garage block.
Speaker 1:I can see those garages. I know the ones you mean.
Speaker 3:It's one of those ones that's damaged. Yeah, there's a dodgy door. We've got to check them. I'll look around and there ain't nobody else here. You can't get on your own. Yeah, I open the garage up. There's my torch. Who should be there?
Speaker 4:it's the main man that you shouldn't cross that.
Speaker 3:You introduce yourself to that I spoke to six months, eight months ago. This is now all about. I said we'd cross over at some point, didn't I? And I said I'd also said I'll treat you with dignity and respect. Introduction he remembered me, I remembered him. Job done, no hassle.
Speaker 1:Really no hassle whatsoever. Did you arrest him?
Speaker 3:Yeah, he needed nicking. Yeah. So, yeah, not a problem. There's a number of ways of arresting, isn't there?
Speaker 4:You've still got to say it. He knows he's done something wrong. Like it's not like it's not.
Speaker 1:Yeah so, but yeah, he was nicked, but there was no issues. Do you know what I find? I'm obviously quite privileged because I know you very, very well, but what I find fascinating about the way that you work. You are a trained terrorist.
Speaker 3:Hostage crisis negotiator when we talk about terrorism. I had an input around the terrorist side of things. I have to say I've never had any practice whatsoever. But yeah, trained, yes, to a certain level.
Speaker 1:Which you would think would give you all of these skills when you talk about building rapport and building trust and being able to communicate effectively.
Speaker 3:Yep.
Speaker 1:But actually the truth of the matter is you had this in you already.
Speaker 3:You didn't do this training until much later in your career that.
Speaker 1:I find that so fascinating about you.
Speaker 3:I'm lucky, for whatever reason, I'm lucky that I had a skill. I mean Friday nights people would go out and get drunk and this nice person that you'd meet on a Friday morning, once they've had too much to drink, sometimes can be an absolute pain, very aggressive, very violent, for whatever reason, and I was custody sergeant for a long time in luton and bedford well, have you not been on the telly by any? Chance only a couple of times, 24 hours in police custody first series I really want to watch it.
Speaker 1:You've got it on dvd, haven't you?
Speaker 4:so is this the first.
Speaker 3:First series, but I think I was on about six or eight of them. Yeah, it was quite a few 17 minutes and 14 seconds.
Speaker 1:I loved it, did you People?
Speaker 3:think oh, it's all staged 24 hours. Oh, it's all staged Right, the cameras are put in.
Speaker 1:That's it. They're put in for three or four or five months. Yeah, you forget, you forget.
Speaker 3:You don't know, the cameras are on because you've forgotten they're there, so none of it is staged. If someone comes in and needs to be spoken to in a particular way, it's not talked up. It's the way it is, and I think I got some amazing feedback constantly on Twitter. It's all about having a cup of tea, whether you have something to eat, whatever it might be. We've got a job to do, which is look after people that come in there. Who am I to judge what they've come in there for? I am not judging jury. My job is to process them according to what needs to happen within the law and let them go or not.
Speaker 1:Let them go but it's your responsibility like custody sergeant is it's a big job, big job, isn't it? It is big job, big job it's a big job, big job.
Speaker 3:But you, for 12 hours, you're there. People need to be safe, they need to be well, they need to be looked after, they need to be treated with dignity, respect and that's the way it is. But I'll say on the friday night and you talk about the skills I had before I got trained in in this amazing, amazing service that the police do they'd be a fighter yeah, cool and pissed out and they'd leave them in the van and they'd come in the custody no, no, no, turn up in the van spitting and fighting, or whatever else it was.
Speaker 3:You'd have six coppers walk in and go andy, we've got a fighter. Yeah, all right, lads, I'll come sort out and within about three or four minutes. This person is no longer fighting. I've got no other police officers around me. Bring him in, we'll have a cup of tea and book you in. It's done just by a way of actually the approach that you have with people.
Speaker 4:And it's a calm energy right Like how do you do it.
Speaker 1:It's the respect.
Speaker 3:It's respect, but it's an energy as well. How do you do it? Let me tell you. When I first started the business, which was 2015,. 2016, roughly someone knew that I had a skill, but we couldn't train this skill until I identified it and I could not identify it. Identify I do what. I do, as we always do.
Speaker 3:We take for granted what we do but I just do what I do until you find out what you do. We can't. And I'll share this story because it was probably around about half past 10 at night, 11 o'clock at night. I was with a business partner and we're talking through a leadership course and my my phone rings and it's a number I don't recognise at 11 o'clock at night. So I pick it up. Who the bloody hell is ringing me at 11 o'clock at night? So I pick the phone up Hello, andy speaking. Hello Andy, it's Andrew. Yeah, andrew, who? It's? His Grace the Duke of Bedford. Switch on your Grace. So sorry, how can I help? It's 11 o'clock at night. I was the community sergeant for Wogan at that time hence the connection.
Speaker 3:If you don't get the Chief Constable to call me within the next five minutes, then I'm going to get the Prime Minister to call your Chief Constable. That was the message I got. So of course I come off the phone. I phone the control room Rivsy, always a little bit of a joker. I phone the control room and they're going. Rivsy, for Christ's sake, calm down will you. I said, look, hand on heart, this is not a joke. This is what's just happened to me at 11 o'clock at night and you need to call this person now. So that was the end of it. I got off the phone and the business partner went and that's what you do. What did you do? And I'll answer your question now.
Speaker 3:Understanding who you're dealing with, the communication is not just one style your communication and interaction and that's everything. That's that nonverbal communication. The pauses, the way you speak has to be in line in harmony with the other person. So his grace got a different response to how somebody might do in a van at three o'clock in the morning. That's drunk.
Speaker 3:Now they might need a few f's, but it can still come from, if you like, cockney type language, because I lived in london for quite a while and it may be that that accent changes the way you interact. I mean the person that drives up friday morning in a suit and you stop them and speak to them. It might be, sir, sir, sir, but friday night when they're pissed out, they're having being a pain in the ass, it might be, or you f off. It's that it's pitching your communication at what stands before you and as soon as as I come off the phone and he went and that's what you do. How did you do that? I just gave him the respect that somebody like him deserves when you communicate and from that point then it was an understanding of what I did. Naturally, Now we can actually go and train it. So that's where it came from.
Speaker 4:Why did you get that phone call, though? Why, why? I was on tender hooks here. Why did you get that phone call at 11? And did you get hold of? Yeah, I can't explain what happened.
Speaker 3:But yes, he was phoned and then I got a conversation. Thanks, Andy, for sorting that out. Why? Did he ring you. Well, this is the connection we had. I'm the community sergeant for Woburn. I have a relationship.
Speaker 4:But it was all okay yeah, okay yeah In the end In the end.
Speaker 2:Perhaps I'll tell you afterwards if you wanted to know, because it is a good story?
Speaker 4:Yeah, I bet it is a good story, so yeah, Wowzers.
Speaker 1:So you were in the police for how long?
Speaker 3:24 years in the end because I was lucky, because I bought seven years with me from my previous job, which bought me seven years in the pension, if you like, so nice. Yeah, I still left on a full 30, but did 24 years, 23 years and whatever 280 days or something like that and then, what has life been since you retired?
Speaker 3:amazing amazing because since I was young and I used to chop wood when I was, let's say, six or seven years old for the old age pensioners in our area, when I lived in Barton-le-Clay, when it was a little village, and you can't replace that feeling of putting a smile on someone's face so I did that from a young age, I went into the police and by not judging anybody, whether, if I could make a difference whether that be someone that's a serious criminal, whether that's someone who's a petty criminal, whether that's a victim or witness or whatever it was by changing their life for a small period of time of our interaction, was was the best feedback for me, the best value I could get. So, leaving the police, I continue to do that, which is basically to improve somebody's life or improve the way they feel, at any point that we interact. It doesn't matter whether you work in Tesco's, whether you're a petrol state, it doesn't matter, we are all equal. At the end of the day, when we leave this world, it doesn't matter whether you're a millionaire or whether you've got nothing, we're all the same. It's when the spirit leaves. We're just left with a shell. So it's that type of making a difference to others. So I leaves. We're just left with a shell, and so it. It's that type of making a difference to others, so I continue doing that.
Speaker 3:I was lucky enough to be, as you said, trained to be, I'll say, a hostage and crisis negotiation, but it was purely crisis. I mean, luckily enough, I only got involved, I think, in one, possibly two hostage scenarios, but it was more about crisis management and looking after people when they are at their lowest and need support. And you get these people are people crying for help, people if they've managed to sit on the edge of a building, whether they're crying for help or not. If they don't get the support now, next time they're sitting in the building.
Speaker 3:They may not be here yeah, and it's.
Speaker 4:The whole idea is about no one should be in that situation.
Speaker 3:No one should be in that but we are all one step away from it if you like, like for whatever happens.
Speaker 3:So I got trained doing this. The majority is crisis management and looking after people when they're at their most vulnerable. It is the most rewarding role that I ever did, but it also took a lot of the skills that I did naturally into some form of structure that can then help other people and understanding how you can influence people when they are at their most vulnerable actually then fitted very nice into working with other people, because the skills that are used at if you're like three o'clock in the morning when it was pouring with rain, the same skills you can use at 10 o'clock in the morning with somebody that's got issues going on. Yeah, all right, it's. It may not be life and death, but it's changing their focus, changing their mindset. So I was an nlp practitioner anyway. So neurolinguistic programming all around mindset and communication and all of those things and reframing and metaphors and all of so.
Speaker 3:I did that anyway in the police. So I did that and then obviously did the hostage crisis negotiation, moved into leaving the police and then started working with people purely for interviews. So the way it was if you can come across correctly in an interview, people are going to buy you, because at the end of the day, your qualifications count for nothing once you've got them. Believe you me, you need them because that gets you into a particular room, but once you've got them, they count for nothing. So then it's about people buying people, and a lot of people in interviews become very nervous and don't show their true self. So I started coaching people for interviews Predominantly it was initially for the police and then, for whatever reason, the ripple effect creates this and I was getting phone calls from people in government saying can you help me?
Speaker 3:I've got a promotion board and it was like well, well, of course I can, and I was about 85 success. Don't ask me why, but I started to and I'm not a stats person and I started to log how many people I've worked with and how many people had got jobs. I say it's about 85 and nothing, no amount of money, can replace the value you get when someone rings you up in tears saying thank you, I couldn't have done it without you yeah right and the one thing I always go back with yes, you could have done it without me.
Speaker 3:All I've done is given you the ability to refocus or come across in a different way. Confidence is a massive thing. I worked with somebody this week, believe it or not, and educated well PhD off the scale, really, really educated. I had failed a couple of interviews. He's got one coming up at the end of this month and it's all about shifting his mindset to understand that he has the confidence within him to deliver the answers he needs to, and that was a three-hour input. But it's about flipping it from that I don't know what to say. I don't know what to say into. I've got all the confidence and I know exactly what to say and I know how to deliver it and that's there.
Speaker 3:So it's so rewarding and I expect from him at the end of october, beginning of november, a phone call that it's going to change his life. Because that's what we're doing when someone gets a job that they want, they change their life which changes everything, the ripple effect through the families and the light. It just changes everything. And then I found hypnotherapy and my word wow, what an amazing skill that was.
Speaker 4:I love it. We've talked about hypnotherapy on here before.
Speaker 3:I love it so much and I've worked with a lot of people and I'll never forget, because, being a police officer, you're a cynic, right. So you learn lots of techniques but you think what a load of old rubbish. So until it actually works, you don't believe it. So with NLPp, there's lots of things within the um nlp process that work really, really well and there's stuff that doesn't work. And if I find something doesn't work, I don't use it. I find something that does work, then I'll use it. So within hypnotherapy, you've got all these things about fingers moving while they're working, talking to their subconscious directly, and their hands are moving. You ask them a question and the hand moves ideomotor responses is what they've called. And it was like well, my first client, first first client, had major, major, major anxiety and I mean and um, of course they've said I've got this, this, this, and I said, well, give it a go, got nothing to lose.
Speaker 3:Probably, within about, I'll say, five minutes, maybe ten minutes, they were at a level of trance, if you want to call it that way. They were at a level and I thought, well, where are you? Let's talk to the subconscious, and sitting there with the hands on her lap and then asking can the subconscious find the part and, if it can, can it indicate by showing, by moving any finger on your left hand. And I'm sitting there thinking, well, here we go, I've got that. And the left finger, oh my god, this shit works. And then you start questioning yourself, thinking well as she just uh, that I wanted to move a finger on her left hand, she's just done that. So of course you deal with that and because that's, that's the.
Speaker 3:And then you go on to the right and can the subconscious find a new, healthy way? You're replacing the old ways in every ways. And, if it can, can you indicate by moving any finger on the right hand? And then you get this and he's like so, all of a sudden, I'm sold. I, I'm absolutely. It was a 45-minute session. This woman came out of this session and I've changed her life in 45 minutes. I mean changed her life and it was like my goodness gracious. And I've already said to you, the biggest value for me is impacting other people, and if you can change someone's life within 45 minutes, I mean from a point of view of not being able to go out for dinner. Not being able to go out for dinner, yeah, being able to do this, not being able to do all of these things that people can't do.
Speaker 3:All of a sudden the world opens up a whole new game. So now you can interact, you can network, you can build a business. All of that, yeah, was she was being held back and we did it in 45 minutes. Now I'll say it's not the the cure of everything, because there's still a follow-up and every now and again it's like I could do with a top-up and it's just like oh, it's such a great tool and it is, and I think it's better than talking therapy as well, for so many.
Speaker 4:And it's quick. You know, talking therapy can take a long time, can't it? And it doesn't. I don't think talking therapy works for everybody and I don't open boxes.
Speaker 3:Sometimes we talk in therapy. If we're going to talk counseling, it's all about opening boxes and, if you like, digging in and dealing.
Speaker 4:Go straight into the source. All my work is content-free.
Speaker 3:You don't need to turn up to me and say this has happened to me. You turn up to me, you know what you want to change. I don't need to know anything else. That's your subconscious and you know what needs to happen, so we'll do it content-free. Now someone comes to say I want to give up smoking, and obviously then that that's something that I'm aware of. But the one thing we all need to know is the issue is never the issue. If you suffer with anxiety, that's a symptom of whatever else has gone on. Your subconscious is protecting you by creating anxiety. So it is a case. The issue is never the issue. So if someone tries to fix anxiety, you're not. Then you're not fixing what actually is creating it.
Speaker 3:All you're doing is, if you're like, masking what's going on. So the yeah, so um, hypnotherapy was amazing and so the business has gone from strength to strength. So started coaching for interviews, then I started coaching people, then I started coaching business, then I've started coaching ceos and vps and it's just like it's amazing so you're coaching.
Speaker 4:What is that what? So I feel like you've got a few different things that you're doing, so you've nlp and coaching are in like one it's all.
Speaker 3:It's all just like think of it, toolkit wise okay I suppose I've got two amazing coaches and we sit down. I don't like the term life coach yeah, I don't like that term life coach and they came up with positive mindset coach. Right, it's all around positivity. Yeah, one of my biggest strengths is my biggest weakness is I very rarely see negatives. There is always a positive there if you're prepared to look past what's happened can you tell us why you've got such a positive mindset?
Speaker 1:where did that come from?
Speaker 3:we'll come back to that. I can do, I can do, but this is not a. If you like, a, a podcast of, if you like, sharing people, go. Oh my word, oh my goodness, you're talking about my brain tumor. Yeah, yeah, maybe, yeah, yeah so I'll come on to that in a second okay but for me, positive mindset coaches. People come to me and sometimes I get it out of the straight. I'm not a counselor. Very often someone just needs someone to shut up and listen and actually actively listen to some of the things they say.
Speaker 3:So when I work with people, you can pick up so much about themselves from the words they use. And so many people use negative words when they communicate, and straight away as soon as you they you start to. Well, you can't say that word, you can't say this word. You've got to get that out of your vocabulary because it's you're reinforcing your own negative values by using that word. All you're doing is just, if you're like making it real, yeah, um, I'm okay. Well, I mean, you're okay. You're either good or you're not good. Can you do it? Yeah, I can. Well, let's just forget that I'm quite good or I'm okay. Let's start to believe that you are good at something. So you're changing the words you use, a bit like try and will. If you say I will try and do something, well, you might as well give up because you've given yourself permission to fail.
Speaker 3:If you say I will do something, then your whole mindset will now work towards the will right by 2030 I will have a number of franchises right, I'll try and do it well, you might as well not bother. You've got to want it.
Speaker 4:I'm trying to think of the language I use. I got told off once by a lady called adele who, um, she's similar space to you and she said you need to that your language about money is diabolical. And you know like I'm skin can't afford that. She goes you're never going to get it, you're never going to have the money you want if you keep using that language. She really went in on me and I was like okay, thanks, you're living yeah what your mindset is creating I know it's.
Speaker 4:It's crazy because I wasn't aware of it until she said it, and I use the terminology a lot. If I can, I will, and I don't know if that's a good or negative is it bad? It can't be right, can it? I'm quite full, my car is quite full, so I'm like, if I can, I will, but I don't think I'm giving myself the flexibility of failing, aren't I?
Speaker 3:yes, yeah, yeah, because there's a number of sayings and if you, if you can, you will, but if you can't, you never will. But if for me in that sentence there, if I can.
Speaker 4:I will. You've given yourself permission to know. I'm giving myself permission to say no because I don't want to over commit, right? I should just say no, right, or?
Speaker 3:you should say yes yes, I will do that now. It's quite easy in certain environments, but to say, by 2030, I will have 100 franchises 50, I mean, don't give me that, let's double it.
Speaker 4:That makes it so scary.
Speaker 3:You've also got to make sure that what you're saying you will do is achievable.
Speaker 4:Yes.
Speaker 3:Because otherwise the impact at the end of that, if you don't achieve it, you're right. Yeah. The impact at the end of that if you don't achieve it can be so negative you've got to get it where it's achievable because you don't want to be setting yourself up for failure.
Speaker 4:Do you, because I think that's harder a lot of businesses.
Speaker 3:Now you have a great year and you you've hit your 15 growth, so next year they go.
Speaker 4:You've got a 25 growth oh yeah, center parts used to be a nightmare so, all of a sudden, you'll, you'll create everyone just wants more and more and more.
Speaker 3:Yeah, but they can't achieve it. So where's the motivation to strive and stretch so positivity?
Speaker 4:Yes, where did it come from, Andy? Where did it come?
Speaker 3:from. I've always been positive, don't get me wrong. I've always been positive, I've always seen good, but at 40 years old I started having sweats and deja vu. All right, so it's all right, but I suppose, like a typical man and I'll say a typical man of my age is you ignore it so I've not eaten enough, I've not drunk enough, or you try and put every excuse in the book that you can to justify, but things aren't right.
Speaker 3:And then all of a sudden I'd sit there and I'd also get a what I would consider a smell. All right, and it was a smell sort of like metallic smell. As it is, there is no smell, it's just a sensation in your nose. But the way it worked with me, so I'd get a warning, so I'd get a smell. Then I'd have deja vu, cold sweats and all of these things and dizzy and like what's going on. And then I probably had that for three to six months and I ignored it. And they become more and more frequent and more and more frequent, until one morning, I think. I had five or six in the shower one morning and my wife could see it. She wasn't in the shower with me, but I couldn't then hide it. It was coming more and more frequent. So you've got to go and get something done about it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:And then I went on a course, a police course, and always on a police course. Before they started, they have needs, fears and expectations, so you pair up with each other and go. What do you need? What are you concerned about? And so this bloke turned around to me and said so what's your fear? And this was sort of like nine o'clock in the morning and I went. Well, my fear is I've had six incidences this morning. I'm worried that I might have a proper seizure today. I was like what I'm just letting you know, I've had six of these things this morning and I'm worried I might have a seizure. I've never, ever, had a seizure, because these are called petty mouths, so they're like low-level incidents, if you like. So, of course, within about 10 minutes I'd had a full seizure. Oh really, yeah, at the police station on this course. So it's the first one I've had. I'm lucky to say it's the only one I've ever had. So the ambulance came and I got taken to hospital and I was having loads of these events in hospital.
Speaker 3:So they gave me oxygen, which was amazing because it stopped these events, because they're horrible, because it gives you a really strange feeling at the back of your neck, which was the worst thing of all, and obviously from the brain stem going down it was horrible feeling.
Speaker 3:So anyway, ended up in Addenbrookes, got scanned and then got called in to basically say you've got a glioma on your right medial temporal lobe which is stuck right in the middle of your head attached to the main blood vessel, brain that runs through the brain. So it's inoperable, okay. So one thing led to another, led to another and then basically went and saw the consultant and of course I've done a load of research and prognosis was five to seven. You've got five to seven years to live and I'm 40 years old and it's like. So then you start working out about your kids. How am I going to impact them? My wife. So it was pretty tough.
Speaker 1:How old were the boys at the time?
Speaker 3:Let's go back then 18 years ago. So James would have been six, six or seven, Tom would have been probably two or three.
Speaker 3:So with that in mind, if you work it out, five seven years 11 plus for James, tom coming out, it was all sort of like me passing is going to ruin their lives because it's important times and there's never a good time to die. Really isn't there, but it was from. My mindset was like, well, james is going to be going for his 11 plus and there's this and that, and then Catherine and all of the rubbish that went with it and never forget and I'll say this on here is one of the things people would come up to you and go. This is going on in my life, but it's nowhere near as bad as what you've got.
Speaker 3:What I'll tell you now is whether I've got five years to live, seven years to live or whatever. I've got what I've got and I will deal with it. The analogy I give is if you're a ballerina and you're about to perform on the biggest stage of your career and you break your toe, the impact that that may have on you mentally might actually be more of an impact than it is that I've only got five years to live. Never judge what somebody else has got compared to what you've got, as they are more serious or not, because it's how it impacts you. It's not what you've got, and that's the thing for me to be. Oh, you're so much worse than me. No, I'm not.
Speaker 3:If something's happened to you that's caused this much of an impact to you, you could be in a worse state than me. It's not a case of it's not, it's the impact it has mentally on other people.
Speaker 3:So for about three months I was I was down, which is unusual I was not in a good place for three months and I think the best bit of advice I got was from a doctor at bedford hospital, dr manford and if they, it's funny how you remember certain things and I can see myself back in his consulting room now and my wife sitting next to me and we're talking about well, andy, he said you might only have two years. He said you've got a brain tumour, right.
Speaker 4:And there's no medication, no treatment.
Speaker 3:There is for my epilepsy.
Speaker 4:Right, okay.
Speaker 3:But not for the tumour. They couldn't cut it out because it was too much attached to that main blood vessel and 0.5 of a millimetre out is going. You're out, it's going to kill you. So they wouldn't attempt it. So but he said Andy, he said I've got also got people walking around with the same tumor of you that are 20 years. He said we don't know. He said you might only have 12 months, you might have 25 years, he said, but what you could happen is you could go out of here get here by bus.
Speaker 3:Well, that was. That was at the end of it yeah, because none of us know where we fit on this scale of living and dying but he said you could go out of here and have the worst 12 months of your life by being depressed and down and waiting to die. He said the worst thing of all, though. He said you could go out with that mindset and have the worst 20 years of your life if you live long.
Speaker 3:Or you could go out of here and a positive mindset and say I am going to have the best 12 months of my life, but bearing in mind you might have the best 20 years of your life what a great guy and and. Then he turned around and went. He said, but never forget. He said, you walk out of this hospital, you go down and push the button that says beep, beep, beep. Green man, you can cross and a bus runs you over, it doesn't matter how long you go because none of us know where we are.
Speaker 3:And the other thing they said was technology is advancing so, so quickly. If you'd have come to us five years ago, 10 years ago, having these symptoms, we'd have said you've got epilepsy, we don't know why. There's some medication and go away. It's only because now we can do these MRIs that cut your brain down. We can see your tumor, but apart from that, we would never, ever know before. So, and then you would die in 12 months, you'd die in five years. It would just be one of those things we wouldn't know. So yeah, I'm on a high dose of lamotrigine. I take twice a day. The medical teams want to reduce it and I've said well, if it's working, why break?
Speaker 4:why there's no?
Speaker 3:need to reduce it. Let's just leave it. I can put up with the side effects. Let's just leave it. So again, I whole up with the side effects. Let's just leave it. So again, I wholeheartedly believe I'm the luckiest man alive, because there's people around me that I've been to visit that have tumors. Because, if you like I'm a positive case, it's because you're told that you're not going to live very long. Hang on a second. They get it wrong because I'm still here 18 years later, thank goodness.
Speaker 3:So I'm a positive case for people to see. But just, I'm here for a reason and I'm a great believer in that. I'm here now for a reason, which is to make a difference with to as many people as I can do, for as long as I can do so, I honestly believe the energy that I give off is lots of positivity. I walk in a room and I'm told that I create an environment where people feel so positive and happy. I am a little bit of an idiot you're really good fun and also you are very comfortable to be around very quickly.
Speaker 4:I feel very safe and comfortable with you.
Speaker 3:You should never feel like. And then I found reiki. Well, that was something else. Yeah, I coach a lady in america on online. Obviously, I don't look, you have to fly out every month. I coach lady in America online. Obviously I don't look enough to fly out every month. I coach a lady in America an amazing woman amazing woman and Reiki can be very spiritual on energy. And she said to me there's something about you and I think you've got a skill. Well, thanks very much. She said how do you feel about having a trade-off? And I get you to be a Reiki practitioner. And I thought, once again, I'm a cynic. Let's not forget here, right, this is something that goes against. And then I went well, yeah, because at the end of the day, you talk about where you do this. Now, what I've got is I'm a positive mindset coach and I can help people achieve what they want to achieve.
Speaker 4:But, as you've said, I've got a toolkit.
Speaker 3:Yeah, reiki is now another and now reiki sits on my belt because when in the police you talk about a toolkit, you've got communication, you've got a stick, you've got gas, you've got pens and papers, you have a toolkit. When you, I have a toolkit now. So, no matter who I interact with, depending on how they are because this is all about them, this is not about me how what's the best way that they will respond? And now, if that is reiki to get them grounded and centered and everything else to work with their chakras, then we'll do reiki right some people we talk about reiki.
Speaker 3:Oh, you're gonna laugh I've had a.
Speaker 4:I've had really bad and really good experiences with reiki so again.
Speaker 3:But certain people are very much energy and spiritually based, and reiki is a lovely thing, but some people go what's a load of old rubbish, what? Which is down to individual choice. Okay then, actually about hypnotherapy, that don't work. No one can besides me, right? Everyone can be hypnotized if you want to but it's a case of ain't for me.
Speaker 3:Okay. So then we'll do some nlp to do some mindset shift, or it may just be a different angle to come at, because, yeah, a lot of companies that I work with or or the C-suite, if you like, or their senior leadership team they have a way of fixing something, but the way they fix it is in their vein. This is what we need to do. This is what we need to do. Well, that can upset the employees, so they come up with a strategy about well, okay, we're going to do this, okay, you're going to do that. That. You're like okay, we're going to do this, okay, you're going to do that. It's great.
Speaker 3:How about we look at it coming from this side of things? So we take an extra five, ten minutes to deliver the same message, but the message that's delivered is that the individual is still even more motivated to continue to do what they do, rather than feeling demotivated because you've just told them they can't have something that they want. And it is that different mindset of coming at problems, issues at a different angle that still leaves people motivated, because none of us like bad message, bad news, but you can deliver bad news in such a positive way yeah, that actually has a has a great impact wowzers, have you had raking?
Speaker 1:yes, yeah, yeah, I have loved it not with you not with me, no, really loved it. Have you had Reiki?
Speaker 4:yourself.
Speaker 3:I had an attunement they call it where it gives you the ability to flush out of your body all the negative energy.
Speaker 4:Oh, fucking bring it on.
Speaker 3:Now, I had this online what she did, the attunement online.
Speaker 1:I'm'm sorry, but why have you not done this to me online? How can?
Speaker 4:you have Reiki online? I've had, yeah.
Speaker 3:Reiki is all about energy.
Speaker 4:I thought it was somebody else's energy, like the Reiki practitioner you can send it by using all the. I'm a bit sceptical on that, andy all the old you have synergy After I had hope. I remember you did that Right.
Speaker 3:But you've got to be in the right frame, you've got to be using the very old traditional symbols, because this is an old style of Reiki, so you have to cleanse the room using certain symbols, smudging, right. Well, you can call it smudging, but there's using certain symbols.
Speaker 1:It's a good word.
Speaker 3:For argument's sake, just having someone's name written down in front of me, in front of my computer. Yeah, using Reiki you can send that individual energy. Oh, I'm a little bit of a skeptic on that, but I believe in.
Speaker 4:Like I said, I've had bad and good, but I totally believe in energy to energy and that a Reiki practitioner can shift negative energy and can feel it, Because I've experienced that. When I was a therapist I used to do lots of facials and scalp massage and I used to really feel what people were feeling and what they were going through and I loved it, but it was also really draining.
Speaker 3:So radio.
Speaker 4:Yeah, dab, yeah.
Speaker 3:Turn it on now. How does it get here?
Speaker 4:I don't actually know Digital. I don't know how radio works.
Speaker 3:The signal is sent out. Yeah, yeah. Someone receives it.
Speaker 1:Mm-hmm.
Speaker 3:And you get to hear it.
Speaker 1:You can't see those waves.
Speaker 3:Can't see those waves Right, good point oh, okay. Reiki you can send out and the other person can feel it and receive it. It right now I don't know how this stuff works. All I'll tell you is a lady in america did an attunement on me, right, which is to remove all of the negativity within my body, to get rid of it, right, and she said the chances are you're going to be ill oh fuck, I remember, yes, remember this you can't say you're going to be ill, and I'm a skeptic, yeah okay, how can you send me something from america?
Speaker 3:to me in uk to go. Yeah, we'll get rid of some of your negative energy. Yeah, I'll tell you now. And if I may be as coarse as I can be on here, yeah, yeah, I don't like swearing, so I won't swear in this environment. I must have spent the next three hours on the toilet.
Speaker 1:Shit and your gut's out.
Speaker 3:Thank you for saying it that way. You're welcome. Yeah, literally for no reason at all. I hadn't eaten anything that was bad. It was literally within sort of like an hour after this thing was set.
Speaker 4:It's like a purge, isn't it?
Speaker 3:Honestly and I just got rid of everything. It was unbelievable.
Speaker 1:When can I book in for an attunement, please?
Speaker 3:You want to be able to sit on a toilet for a couple of hours.
Speaker 4:I mean I'll take it, I'll take it, it's like Ayahuasca, isn't it? They purge, don't they? But they vomit and they purge.
Speaker 3:I forget this also the same with hypnotherapy, the same with NLP, the same with Reiki. There could quite easily be a placebo effect. Yeah, I'm expecting something to happen.
Speaker 1:Oh.
Speaker 3:Subconscious will control that because you expect it, so it happens. Oh. So, yeah. There is, there's two sides to the coin.
Speaker 1:I mean because but did the attunement work.
Speaker 3:Oh, it worked a treat. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, for you yeah.
Speaker 3:Didn't expect it either. I mean being about a sceptic. Yeah. Now you're going to send me something from there to me and this is going to yeah.
Speaker 1:You. I'm going to probe a little bit now.
Speaker 3:Go on, then I'll choose if I want to answer. Thank you, I'm not drawing boxes yet. Okay, that's good.
Speaker 1:You don't often perform Reiki, no, why? Thank you Okay why, yeah.
Speaker 3:Probably. My own personal feeling is that it's quite way out there, so I don't advertise it. In fact, if you look at me now on Zoom, I no longer have a background, I have my.
Speaker 2:I put up a load of certificates and right, slap bang.
Speaker 3:In the middle of that is my reiki practitioner right now. The funny thing is how it seems in america from what I'm told from the lady that worked with me the majority of reiki practitioners are the majority male really yeah, I, yeah.
Speaker 4:I've never met a male practitioner before.
Speaker 3:Here, UK-wise, predominantly female. Yeah. So I'm working in a female world, if you like, which has its own, I suppose. If you like biases and this is my perception yeah, because over here it's predominantly females, and if I turn around, people say well, I do reiki, you're gonna?
Speaker 4:are you worried about what other people would think? Yes, that's.
Speaker 3:That's probably the best way of putting it. Yes, until someone says their spiritual energy, they'll come up with some word which relates around spiritual energy. I will then put in yeah, when I do reiki and it is, you do reiki as well yeah, yeah, but you need to just make sure that that person is in tune otherwise it's like it's a bit way out your hypnotherapy I'm gonna ask again please, can I have some reiki?
Speaker 3:I've told you you can, but yeah, we need to book it in. I'm terrible, we're not booking it in. I always say to people I'm happy to more than happy to work with you and help you, but what I'll say to you is you need to chase me and ring me and be a pain we need to get you a VA actually. Oh, that would be good but, if you're expecting me to chase you, then I won't no alright very big bollocks.
Speaker 1:If you want me, come find me very, with or without you energy, if you want me this young lad last week, with or without you energy.
Speaker 3:It is, if you want me, this young lad. Last week. He phoned up and I went yeah, I can do something this week for you Didn't book anything in. And I've got a message this week saying can you help me? I went well, yeah, okay, okay, but you've got to help If people think well, okay, I don't want to be a pain With me, you have to be a pain Because I don't. Unless we book it in now, it's not booked in and it's gone, it's moved on because somebody else is comfortable.
Speaker 1:Because I'm all about individuals and if I work with somebody, you our attention, which means if we've not booked in, then you're no longer there so it has to be booked in.
Speaker 3:I think you need a va, we think I need lots of things. We'll have to see.
Speaker 4:We've already had this discussion about this is fascinating to go from the police and dealing with some of the hardest criminals yeah, some, some people that need real support.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm sorry, look at that spin, look at that positivity spin.
Speaker 4:To then talking about Reiki.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you couldn't get further apart, could you? Because if I went and spoke to some of the people that I dealt with and I said Reiki, they'd think, oh no.
Speaker 1:I have got a leading question for you.
Speaker 3:That means it's a yes or no answer.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, it's not close question, I know again privileged to know quite a bit about you, yeah, and your experience is different to anyone that I've ever met or come into contact with before, and I've known you for a very long time actually if we wind it back a very, very long time. I believe that you have got a lot of books to write about your experiences I've heard one about one in particular and I'm so excited about it even now.
Speaker 3:Today I'm hearing stuff that I've never heard before oh, no I don't say you're looking at because you do another book for me when I've sat down and shared some of my experience. Another book, I think. I think about four books as far as you're concerned, yeah, be nice to get the first one done it would, wouldn't it?
Speaker 1:yeah, so can we talk about it?
Speaker 3:tell us about the first one what do you want to know about the first one?
Speaker 1:what's it called?
Speaker 3:taking the clothes off a killer breath in there. It's so good it is I like?
Speaker 4:when I first heard about this story, I was like I was trying to tell martin about it and I was like I'm so excited like I want to see it on netflix. See it. But this fascinates me about you and I really want you to do it because, selfishly, I want to hear the story and I want to read about it. But it is a business book, right? So can you give us like the cliff notes of the story?
Speaker 3:so tell you where it came from first. So I left the police, as I said, in 2018. I've got two coaches now, but when I left, I had a CEO who I know well and a VP of a business in the city, both from the city that I've had interactions with and they came down to to Bedford, to Great Denham Golf Club when it was there and I had a room and they said, right, go away, write down some of the stuff that you've done for us, will you? And I went back in there.
Speaker 3:I mean, bear in mind, from a police officer point of view, I wasn't really organised. I left school with nothing. I had no exams or anything, so it's like pretty much, this is way out of it. Turn up in a black uniform and do what I've got to do is fine, but actually now to start thinking for myself, it's really difficult. So I turned up at the golf club, I managed to have a room and the CEO lady came in. I'll say her name Rachel. An amazing woman, massive, massive support to me in me going out on my own, and I'll say that. An absolutely amazing woman.
Speaker 1:The other lad.
Speaker 3:Andy, sorry, Hugely successful is what she does Powerful, powerful, successful individual, absolutely amazing. But anyway, we're not here to talk about her.
Speaker 4:All about you.
Speaker 3:So we came in this room.
Speaker 1:Oh don't, you were talking about Andy the other bloke didn't turn up.
Speaker 3:He was a little bit late, so Andy was a little bit late, right. So Rachel sat in the room and said I've got a flip chart and I'd love to write a book. They're the two things that I would love to do. So she went show me your flip chart and I'm pointing at your flip chart there because basically that's what it was and I turned this over and she went well, there's your book and there's your ted talk yeah and she turned around and she went and the book's called taking the clothes off a killer.
Speaker 3:That's what she said. She said but do you realize the story that you've just shared? People in business have this same scenario day in, day out, and they don't know how to deal with it and she says you're sitting there on a gold mine because you've got every answer anybody needs on knowing how to deal with something in business it's also helping me in parenting.
Speaker 3:To be fair, yeah, yeah, that's a really good point, yeah anyway, that was that she said there's your book, there's your tittle. Well, let's say, andy walks in. Maybe it was 10 minutes, maybe it was 15 minutes. He's walked in and she's actually said to him sit down and listen to this right, that she is excited, or the breath that you had. She had that then. Yeah.
Speaker 3:So I went right. She said tell him. So I told him and he went taking the clothes from a killer. It's literally what he said, at the same sort of time Right. And he went well. Well, there's your book and there's your TED talk in it and it's like, because for them it was business as usual, they could see it. I've come from a world where I hadn't been exposed to anything like that and even now even now, rachel particularly, is pushing when you're going to write that book she says you're sitting on a bestseller.
Speaker 3:You don't realize yeah you're sitting on a bestseller that's not just uk. She said this would go global. She said it is unbelievable. She said to write the book. She said you're on the international speaking circuit now. So I'm now speaking in different parts of the world. It's amazing how things materialize because you pivot all the time. Yeah, um, so in december I'm in rome and I think in May I'll be in Barcelona. They're just two sort of strands that I've got. It's amazing. But she's even said and the same as you imagine having a book Because it's going to open up more doors for you. So, taking the clothes off, a killer. Let's give you a little bit of an insight.
Speaker 1:Give a taster.
Speaker 3:A little taster. So, custody Luton. We've already mentioned Berry Park and there was an individual in Berry Park at that time, going back some time. In a nutshell, nothing could happen in Berry Park unless there are certain people that ratified it right. In other words, if I were to come around and beat you up, if it was just spontaneous, it'd be one thing, but from from another point, if I wanted to come and beat you up, then I'd have to get authorization that that was going to be an okay thing.
Speaker 4:Oh, it's like territory.
Speaker 3:Yes, someone run that area in a particular world and they decide what can and what can't happen. Very powerful, very high up the tree and didn't get in trouble with the police very much because of how far removed they were. And on this one occasion this person got arrested for a serious offence and came into custody. Now I don't know. 5 foot 8, 5 foot 10, probably 20 stone, 12% body fat type thing A big unit.
Speaker 1:I'm just going to put in there built like a brick shithouse is what you mean. Yeah, he was a big one.
Speaker 3:Yeah, now, on the right hand side of the custody desk at luther when it was, there was the, the gates where people come in, so you'd see the car pull up and you'd see things come in. Now I already said I didn't like searching places that were dark. I don't like dealing with people that I know that can be very, very violent, no matter how many people you have around them. Why.
Speaker 3:It's difficult. So I'm going straight into ribsy mode, which is I need to build a relationship, I need to do this. I need to do that because I need to get this person booked in and put them in a cell where everything is safe. So he's come in and I can feel myself that I'm on edge. Why? Because you never know, from one minute to the next, one second to the to go. It's a 20 minute process health and safety, risk assessments, lawyers and all those things. But because he's been bought in for a serious offense, I need his clothes. I need his clothes because the clothes will always tend to prove or disprove someone's involvement in the offense of course yeah, so, because fibers transfer from one to the other yeah if you've done nothing wrong.
Speaker 3:I'll have my clothes because technically, but some people don't like conforming full stop yeah so I think I don't know.
Speaker 3:There was four coppers around him while I'm booking him in and it's we're on the edge. It's teacher, but when it's getting booked in, get him to the cell and now it's like we now need to get his clothes. So I've got a team of police officers. Some of them are new, some of them are in the job sometime.
Speaker 3:You wouldn't normally send six coppers down to take someone's clothes, but we sent six down, right, because this man can be a bit of a handful. In fact he can be a bloody handful. So I thought no more of it. I carried on these six. A bloody handful, so I thought no more of it. And I carried on. These six have gone down. It's 15 minutes. Think no more of it. All of a sudden one of them comes back. One of them has got a long time in. I go Rivsy, he won't give us his clothes. That's not good, because we need his clothes. Policing, you can go down and send more coppers down and it all goes wrong, which means more paperwork. Or you can get a load of people kitted out into sort of like public order kits. So you've got your helmets and your shields and your pads and all of this stuff. But the cells are not that big and to get, let's say, six or eight coppers in there fully kitted up in all their psu gear plus with a big guy.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah and then there's going to be people injured, there's going to be people injured, there's going to be police officers hurt. There's going to be, potentially, this person being hurt. So I said, look, get everybody back. What do you mean? I said, just get everybody back, shut the door. So they all came back up and they're saying, well, what are you going to do? I said, well, I'm going to go down and get his clothes. Okay.
Speaker 3:So it's quite a long walk and he was M13. So, lucky or unlucky, who knows if you're superstitious, but he's M13, which is it's probably a 25 yard walk. But you're going through a gate, turning through another gate, so each gate needs to be locked and I'm going down on my own. Each gate needs to be locked and I'm going down on my own. Well, I know that really, help is going to be 20 seconds away. As you know, in 20 seconds, someone's going to do quite a bit of damage to you.
Speaker 3:Anyway, the one thing I ask you to bear in mind is the custody block is mine. It's a bit like your front door. You're in charge of what goes on in this house, right? So if someone wants to come in, you decide yeah, and I'm walking down that corridor. I'll never forget it and thinking well, I've been lucky throughout my career, I've only had a few fights. This could go really horribly wrong, but we're going to give it a go because you've got to keep testing that you, you can do this. So, strategy wise, I mean, if you walk down the custody area, if you know anybody that's got really smelly feet in trainers and they take their trainers off and it stinks, just imagine that having 20 pairs of those because that smell will never, ever leave you. It's a bit like if you work in a morgue that smell of death you always have it walking through custody.
Speaker 4:The smell of dirty trainers is is permanently there, it is unbelievable, because their shoes are outside. Yeah right, yeah so it stinks.
Speaker 3:So we're walking down there and it's like, well, what am I going to do? What am I going to do? Plus this lot, we'll come with you. I said, no, you wait back up here. So my strategy was that the cell that he's in is his space and I'm going to be coming into his space. My objective get him to give us his clothes without any hassle. So the doors are massive and heavy and metal and they've got a flap in them. You can look and normally if you push the button and it bangs down a really loud noise bangs down. Well, this one here. It was like you get a little spiral and I'm looking through the spiral. I'm even looking through the spiral now and this bloke on the left side of the cell is walking up and down and up and down and the way I would describe it, it's like a lion in a cage, yeah Right.
Speaker 3:And he's got a slight bit of foam coming out of his mouth.
Speaker 4:He's up and down this wall.
Speaker 3:Pacing up and down this wall. It doesn't look good, does it, as I look through this hole. So anyway, I look through that and I knock the door, literally Knock door, literally knock, knock, knock on the door and I undo the flap. But you don't let it go, as we always do, let it down gently, and it makes a scraping noise because it's metal on metal. I'll speak to him, but you can't speak to him because he's, he's like, zoned out. He's up and down this wall. I mean, he's probably done about 10 laps while I've even been watching. It's only a short cell and I went can I open the door? And of course you get a load of expletives back because, yeah, so I've introduced myself and the custody sergeant that I booked you in, blah, blah, blah, up and down the wall phone out of his mouth, my happy. Can I open the door? I mean, the one thing I always say is let's not get away from the point.
Speaker 3:This is my area. Normally it'd be open the door and we go sort it out. It's your area. In so many words, do what you gotta do. Now there's always a brass strip in the floor. It's a really nice thin brass strip which is like a threshold, open the door. And door opens inwards to the right, so he's on the left door opens inwards to the right. There's one of these doors that can fold right back. I'm still safe because anything goes wrong I can lick it. So I haven't crossed the threshold. I'm now still. This is his area that I'm coming into. I'll start communicating, start talking. He's up and down the wall. He's not happy. You're not having me close. You better send down a load of other coppers here, blah, blah, blah. Gets to the point and you've got to be watching people because non-verbal communication is everything. He starts to slow down. He's still walking up and down, but the speed of walk is reducing. That, to me, is a sign that actually we're getting somewhere it's not saying it's stopped, but we're getting somewhere, so can I step in?
Speaker 3:I'm still not across the threshold. It's your area, do what you like. So I step in. Still, I've still not crossed the threshold. It's your area, do what you like. So I step in still, got the door behind me, everything's safe. And then I start talking about the respect that I have for him. Whether we like it, whether we don't, he's an influential individual. He's also very strong. A lot of people listen to him and follow him. So he's an influential individual.
Speaker 3:And the point being there is for me, it was explaining the respect that I have for him, for him, his status and the damage that he could do to people, including police officers. And it was along the line well, look, I can get 10 coppers down here, I said. But we get 10 down here. You injure six. I said you're gonna get up. I mean, you're going to six of my coppers. What's the point of doing it that way? Look at the size. You look how strong you are. Build him up. I talk about making people feel like a peacock. If you can make somebody feel like a peacock, that's when they're at the most vulnerable. So, by building them up, make them feel like a peacock. Never forget. You've always got their bits in your hand because you have control, and vulnerability is power, and I'm in a very vulnerable state with an objective of getting his clothes. Vulnerability is power if you can use it right so the walking gets slower.
Speaker 3:I've stepped in, shown a lot of respect, I've built him up. I have built him up to the point of well, can I come and stand against the wall on the right, so the door's open. But I'm now on the right and he's on the left, obviously just walking. Now I'm not running up and down and we have more of a conversation than we get going on. And I'll never forget this point is I need to sit on that bed, which is obviously the opposite side of the door, and if you've seen 24 hours in police custody, the mattresses, if they're six inches off the floor, that's about it, maybe eight inches. I need to sit on that bed in my head.
Speaker 4:Why is that?
Speaker 3:because if I get there at that point, there I've got there's more respect and there's more opportunity to get him to come and sit next to me, right and? But the worst thing of all, if I sit on bed, I go from six foot to sort of about three foot four, because I'm sitting six inches off the floor and I am then at my most vulnerable because I can't get to the door. He's there. We could use any of his feet, arms or anything to assault me. I've got nobody else with me. I feel it's the right time and even now I think this could go horribly wrong. This could really go horribly wrong but I need to.
Speaker 3:Can I sit down, do what you effing like, but it's different. The walk is no longer there and there's a long way we've come, but I don't know how far.
Speaker 3:So I sit down and we have more of a conversation, because now he's leaning against the wall so he's stopped pacing yeah so now he's got his foot up against the wall, leaning against the wall, and I said why don't you come sit on here? So he comes and sits down next to me and we have a conversation, continue with the respect and everything else and he turns around, probably about 20 minutes, 25 minutes and goes, go and get and I give him my clothes Fuck, right, but that's 25 minutes, half an hour, right. Yeah. That could have been a five-minute job. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Loaded coppers in there, all shielded up and everything else. It all goes horribly wrong. Did it need it? Probably not, because 25 minutes well spent meant that we got his clothes.
Speaker 4:No anger, no stress, no anger, no frustration, no, nothing.
Speaker 3:Everything was calm and collective. No anger, no frustration, no, nothing, everything was calm and collective. So that's that story about taking the clothes off a killer and it's about all the skills that I used unknowingly at this time Don't forget, this is unknowingly, this was before all this other training that I've had but then being able to now put them into practice, to understand, Because when I told you you went, you can use it in this, this, this, and you went through, nicole, probably five or six different environments where this book can actually feed back into business.
Speaker 3:So then you said, well, tell me another story. So I told you another story.
Speaker 4:You went well, there's another book, there's another book, and it's like Because it's all lessons, but it is lessons about business, but it's just lessons about people, humanity. Yes, you know, like the biggest takeaway from that is no matter how your perception of that person, just with some respect, you can actually build a rapport, build a relationship and achieve anything without it being stressful and angry. And. I could definitely use that with my daughter right now.
Speaker 3:Sincerity is everything, yeah, and that's the one thing. You can't lie because people can see through it straight away. You've got to be sincere. So when I was saying to him about the respect that he has, the power that he has, like you meant it.
Speaker 3:It was all coming from a good place. It wasn't the case of well, I'm just making up and bullshitting. This was proper stuff, Because you've got to be sincere if you're going to say something, Otherwise it's seen through. People feel it. You all feel it when someone's not telling you the truth.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I hate bullshit Like I really struggle with it.
Speaker 3:But it was giving that man the respect that he required and possibly he deserved. He's coming from a world that we don't live in. Yeah, right.
Speaker 4:But he's top of the food chain right.
Speaker 3:He's right near the top and by giving him what he needs. So dealing with him the way that he needs to be dealt with creates the environment to influence his behavior, and that's all I did was create an environment that he needed to have for me to be able to influence his behavior. To say, I'll go and get two blokes, I'll get my clothes did you have to leave his trainers outside?
Speaker 4:yeah, everyone does, everyone does, don't they?
Speaker 3:Yeah, because obviously laces and people wanting to take their own lives.
Speaker 4:Yeah. So, I cannot fucking wait for this book. When's it happening, Pete Better get writing.
Speaker 3:Before May next year.
Speaker 4:Is it?
Speaker 3:Well, that's what we said, wasn't it?
Speaker 4:You need to do. What is it?
Speaker 1:Most people send themselves off, don't they? They go and stay in the middle of nowhere Shall we go for a writer's retreat.
Speaker 4:Shall, we we go and book somewhere and just like in silence, in the middle of nowhere, with no distractions.
Speaker 1:He ain't going to fucking write it, no.
Speaker 4:Oh, you're going to do it Ghost writing.
Speaker 3:Ghost writing, so that don't they put me putting it into words or word. No, but you're the storyteller.
Speaker 4:I've put it into words here now this is where you would record all of it in audio, wouldn't you? And then transcribe and then work from there. Oh my God, I'm so excited about this. It's good isn't it.
Speaker 3:Do you hear about hiding behind the hedge?
Speaker 4:Yeah, Next episode. Yeah, is it?
Speaker 1:Yeah, hiding behind the hedge, that is so cool, well, you obviously need to write one on positive mindset as well yes, yeah, it is fascinating how you can flip.
Speaker 4:I remember before I was doing a speak speaking gig at professional beauty, my friend tracy sent me a message and said just remember, was it tracy or you? Tracy sent me an audio like a hypnotherapy audio, wasn't it? But you sent somebody said to me just remember, fear is the same feeling as it's. Tracy yeah, yeah, it's the same emotion as excitement. So if you're feeling nervous, nerves are the same feeling as excitement. So if you just change that thought from I'm nervous, I'm scared to I'm actually really excited, you'll get a completely different outcome.
Speaker 3:That's for me. That's easier said than done, though.
Speaker 4:It is, but it worked for me.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 4:Because I just carried on saying to myself you're not nervous, I was just. I was talking to myself like you're not nervous, you're not worried, you're just excited. You're really excited about what's going to come.
Speaker 3:And then really helped and I remember standing on that stage going, no, I'm really excited and believing it as well, I wasn't just faking myself, forcing it, nlp I mean. If you watch ted talks, they've all got like a red carpet. They stand on right. So with nlp you can create a fictitious red carpet and working with you. Think of a time when you were very confident. Think of a time when you really relax. Think of a time when you're really energetic and we can anchor all of a time when you're really relaxed.
Speaker 3:Think of a time when you're really energetic and we can anchor all of those sensations. When you get to a peak level, you anchor them all and you can fire your anchors if you like. When you step in a circle, so a bit like so, you create and as soon as you step on stage you step into this circle and all of these emotions of positivity, confidence, everything can flow back through you for when you present. So I've had a bloke this week who's messaged me because we haven't done any work together, probably for over a year now. He was actually speaking at an international conference and he sent me and he said I was really nervous about how well it went, amazingly, because we did some work previously and he's absolutely smashed it. He said and people want to talk to me afterwards, there might be some consulting work come off of it. So it's absolutely superb Because you can fire your anchors at any point, depending on where they're, if you like, instilled, installed.
Speaker 4:Oh, Andy Rivers, you have been an absolute dreamboat.
Speaker 3:I love you. Thank you very much. I'd like to say thank you for both of you, because we've discussed this since you started your thing about me coming on. Yes, we have yeah, and when you asked me I thought I'd love to, I'd love to come on.
Speaker 4:Yeah, it's a pleasure to have you. I've really enjoyed it.
Speaker 3:So thank you very much.
Speaker 4:How can anyone find you if they want to work with you, Andy andyriverscom?
Speaker 3:Oh, that's nice and easy. Isn't? Listen up when I say with nicole, because you work a lot with me, nicole. We thought about all these, we've looked at all of these different names and everything. And then the one question you asked me is when people come to you, what do they buy?
Speaker 4:and I'm well, they buy my services, so they say so.
Speaker 3:Why don't you just be andy rivers?
Speaker 4:I think it's more that you've got andy. I love it. It's the easiest thing to remember so, and that's where I am. So we're going to be booking in some Reiki, I feel, aren't we 100%, 100%?
Speaker 3:bring the sage around and the crystals in yeah, get smudging thanks, andy, thank you thank you very much.
