Peter Norton on Coping With Cancer

In this episode of the Inspiring Good Podcast, we focus on the less talked about but crucial aspects of cancer care: navigating health insurance and financial support. Cancer Resources of Elkhart County, under Peter Norton's experienced leadership, plays a key role in helping patients understand their insurance coverage and manage the often-overwhelming financial burdens that come with cancer treatment. With a rich history spanning 66 years, this organization offers meticulously designed resources to assist patients in comprehending their healthcare plans and finding avenues for financial aid. Join us as we explore how early intervention and thorough planning can empower cancer patients to navigate their healthcare journey with confidence.

00:00:08: Introduction to the Inspiring Good Podcast

00:00:21: Introduction of the hosts

00:00:28: Guest introduction: Peter Norton

00:01:12: Discussion about Cancer Resources of Elkhart County

00:02:22: Day-to-day operations and services for cancer patients

00:05:17: Personal experience with cancer: Peter's story about his mother

00:08:12: Discussion about the staff and volunteers

00:09:17: Fundraising strategies

00:11:08: Donations and how people can help

00:11:44: Importance of donor contributions

00:14:12: Supporting cancer patients and their families

00:17:03: Managing personal stress and the importance of mental health

00:18:27: Support for nonprofit CEOs

00:19:04: Appreciation for Musical Talent

00:19:40: CEO Retreat Experience and Collegiality

00:20:33: Importance of Nonprofit CEO Roundtables

00:22:15: Changes in Cancer Treatment

00:24:48: Adjusting Organization Strategy for Treatable Cancer

00:28:29: Best Practices for New Executive Directors

00:31:03: Importance of Work-Life Balance for CEOs

00:32:47: Impact of Cancer Resources on Patients and Families

00:35:42: Source of Hope: The Clients

00:36:36: Ending Remarks and Production Credits

This show is a production of the Community Foundation of Elkhart County. It is powered by equipment from Sweetwater and recorded in The Riverbend building in Elkhart's River District. Editing is done by the award-winning communication students at Goshen College, home of one of the best college radio stations in the nation. Listen to Globe Radio at 91.1 FM. Learn more about the Community Foundation of Elkhart County at inspiringgood.org You can follow us on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn. Music is provided by Sensational Sounds. Thanks for listening. We hope you are inspired and inspire good and your community.

Chapters

• 1:12 What Cancer Resources does in Elkhart County
• 5:17 Pete's personal experience with cancer
• 9:17 Fundraising strategies
• 18:27 Support for CEOs
• 22:15 Changes in cancer treatment
• 28:29 Work of a nonprofit CEO
• 32:47 Impact on patients and theirs on us

Transcript

Marshall King:
Welcome to the Inspiring Good Podcast. This podcast is brought to you by the Community foundation of Elkhart County, which serves a vibrant community in northern Indiana, known for its generosity and strong network of nonprofit organizations. I'm Marshall King, your co-host with Kevin Deary, a veteran nonprofit CEO who now coaches others. Our guest today is Peter Norton, who is a seasoned leader with extensive experience in operations and nonprofit management as executive director of Cancer Resources of Elkhart County, where he's worked more than 20 years. Welcome, Peter. 

Peter Norton:
Thank you so much, Peter. 

Kevin Deary:
It's so good to have you on the show. You and I have known each other 20 years. 18. 20 years now. A long time. We were colleagues, both running organizations, so we've been good friends. So we want to make sure we share with everybody that we've had a lot of laughs together. We've talked a lot, we've learned from each other. 

Peter Norton:
Well, I've more learned from you, let's face it. 

Kevin Deary:
Well, that's very kind of you, but we've all kind of learned together when you're running nonprofits. And so I've always been a big fan of yours. And we're going to talk about some of the important things that you do with United Cancer Services and how Cancer resources in Elkhart County impacts cancer. Maybe you can start us off by talking a little bit about the organization and the mission. 

Peter Norton:
Sure. And let's. We'll just. Kevin said something there that is common because for many years, the name of our agency was United Cancer services. And in 2018, we changed the name to Cancer Resources for Elkhart County. And the reason we did that is we thought the name United Cancer sounded a little too much like a branch office of a national organization. And we really want something that was homegrown, that sounded grassroots, that communicated that we are grassroots because we're not a branch office. And our agency was founded here 66 years ago. So that's a common thing. It's okay. You know, it's mostly they think we're the American Cancer Society, so I'm used to it. 

Kevin Deary:
No, thank you for my fault, Paul. I appreciate it. 

Peter Norton:
It's okay. 

Kevin Deary:
You guys do great work. I've known several people that have utilized your resources. Can you talk a little bit about the day to day, the programs, the services? 

Peter Norton:
Sure. The first thing we do when a cancer patient comes in is we walk them through a planning process, because let's face it, they're in shock. And the doctor said cancer. They only heard half the stuff the doctor said after that. And the medical community comes at them in a whirlwind. And so I want to sit them down and make sure they've asked the right people the right questions, which these are smart people, but let's face it, they've hit a big bump in the road of life and they're scared, and they should be. So we talk about what is your diagnosis and treatment plan? Tell me what you understand about that. And I've got a book that I've written that they're going to take with them. And in the back of that, I'm writing out questions that they need to go back and ask the doctor, which I'm sure the doctor told them, but it didn't sink. So that's the first thing. The second thing is we talk about health insurance. What does it do? What doesn't it do? What's your max out of pocket? If you hit that max out of pocket, are you 80, 20 after that, or is it covered 100%? These are things that nobody knows, and I don't expect them to know. But now they know these questions to go find out. Because we usually see people very early in the process, and I want to give them a jump on that learning curve before they get really heavy into treatment and they're just not feeling that well and not able to process there as well. So from there, we figure out what's going on with can they substitute their income? Because virtually nobody is going to be able to work while they're in treatment. Some people can do it part time. Then we talk about where are they going to get their treatment. When I first came to the agency, a large number of people had to leave Elkhart county for treatment. That doesn't really happen anymore. The only reason people leave here is if the local oncologist wants the opinion of some uber nerd specialist oncologist. But other than that, then we start talking about what's going on with their finances and how can we substitute things. I've got six pages in my book of places we can send them to go get help for other things. Because we're really about the only ones that help with the cancer bills. I mean, you have the hospital foundations, but not everybody goes to a hospital. They might go to a doctor's physician's practice. So there's not going to be a foundation there. So just a lot of things that we're going to talk about and figure out. And I do this in this organized way because a lot of times people have an idea of what they need help with when they come in. But pretty Fair percentage of them walk out the doors going, I gotta go home and talk to my spouse, because now you've got me thinking about something else. So that's what we tried to do. Is Pete McCown at the last CEO retreat actually looked at somebody else when they were saying, what do you do? And Pete said, they minister to cancer patients. And I was like, you know, that's a great way to put it. So, yeah, we try to walk with them through the process, but we're going to help them with some of the finances as well. 

Kevin Deary:
Yeah, I was just thinking about the depth of resources that you provide. Where did you get your knowledge about cancer? 

Peter Norton:
Well, from my mother. I mean, I'm an only child. My parents were divorced and my mom first got cancer when I was 13. She had a hysterectomy and radiation. She was clear for 11 years. Came back, I was 25. And it came back, it was exactly the same cancer. It came back as tumors in her abdomen. And I remember she was saying, you know, she went on a diet, you know, like every woman does. And she's like, you know, I'm losing weight, but I'm not losing it. Just, I can't figure out what's going on. And eventually it turned out she had basically like a 16 inch softball in her abdomen. And she was 53 and about, you know, 120 pounds. She wasn't a big woman. So, yeah, that was surgery. And then it was straight into chemo. And she went through a number of chemo programs that didn't work. The tumors kept growing and eventually we got to the point where the doctor said, well, okay, now it's time for the second surgery. So. And these surgeries, literally, they cut her from her sternum to her pelvis. So they, these were big surgeries and came out of the second one and went into a whole new chemo program. And this one actually worked. The remaining tumors shrunk and shrunk and shrunk and shrunk and shrunk. And they got to the point where they were gone. And so that was great news. But this was years in the process. The cancer came back about not quite a year later. And she made it just about a year before she passed. So, you know, it was a long journey and it was a tough journey. I mean, I spent more time in the hospital and I can tell you I've never been to prison, but I kind of have an idea what it's like, the weird way time moves. You know, it's like you're bored out of your mind. And then before you realize it, you've been there for 14 hours. So that's really where I got the. I saw the worst of it. And when I heard about Cancer Resources was looking for a director, I thought, you know, it'd been seven years since my mind mom passed and I was ready to go back and start doing something. 

Kevin Deary:
You know, I think Pete McGowan was spot on when he said it's a. You're very much a pastoral presence, especially with your personal walk with cancer and your mom. And tell me about your staff. How many staff and volunteers do you have that are. 

Peter Norton:
Oh, we have tons of volunteers. I don't even know how many, to be honest, because we do four big fundraisers a year. And so we've got volunteers for each of those fundraisers. And I like to have a good planning committee for those, more for me than anything else, because I've. One of the sayings that I've developed over the years is deadlines keep you honest. And when you have accountability partners who are out doing their job for your event, you cannot go to the committee meeting and not have your stuff done. So, yeah, they keep me in line as much as they help with reaching out and doing all kinds of things, because these things are too big to put on by yourself. And there's four of us on staff. My assistant, Sue Baumgartner, is going to retire in February after 23 years of working together. So you can imagine the workflow is different, and we're going to have to rethink some things. I hired a great caseworker last year. She went through it as well with her father, and so she's going to move over and do the bookkeeping. And now I'm going to be out looking for another caseworker. And then I've got, you know, one person on staff who drives the train on our biggest fundraiser. 

Kevin Deary:
And so I had an assistant with me when I was CEO for 20 years. And every time she wanted to retire, move to Alaska, because where she's from, I said, no, just go one more. 

Peter Norton:
Year, one more year. 

Kevin Deary:
And then finally she said, I'm 75. It's time for me to go home. And I miss her dearly famous Marie Reisinger. And then what happens is there's another person that comes and has the same mission and passion, and you just keep on rolling. 

Peter Norton:
You do, but you've got to develop the lingo, you've got to develop the understanding. You got to make that all happen. 

Marshall King:
So, Pete, how do you do the fundraising for this work, how do you secure and raise the funds that you need to help those in our community? 

Peter Norton:
Yeah, one of my things is don't have all your eggs in one basket. A job I had before I was at Cancer Resources was with a residential treatment facility that looks a lot like Basher. And I was the marketing guy. And when I came in, 90% of the kids they had in placement were either from Indianapolis or Gary. And I looked at my boss and I said, our eggs are in one basket. We got to spread this out. And seven years later, when I left that job and I moved over to the foundation, I had opened up Michigan. 40% of our kids were from Michigan. And I had just written a contract with the city of Cleveland, who literally had more kids in placement than the state of Indiana. So spread, spread. So we've got four big fundraisers and we're actually one of my board members, her hair is on fire about doing a fifth. And then we do some grants and then donations. And so those are really the three pillars of how we're funding what we're doing. We've got a lot of great donors who support us. And honestly, sometimes the things that choke me up the most is when you open up the mail and there's one of your envelopes in there and there's two $1 bills and some scribbled handwriting saying four cancer patients. And you know, that two bucks to that very senior person was a very important amount of money. You know, we've got people that gives us, give us hundreds and thousands and into five figures. But to me, and here's the thing about the donations to me, especially for middle class folks, you're going to pay the mortgage, you're going to feed your kids, you're going to make your car payment, you're going to do all those things. Then there's a little bit of money left over. And that's your money, that's your entertainment, that's your vacation, that's your, you know, your hobby. That's. And so when you're donating, that's what you're taking away from, you know, so to me, that's the most important buck, really. So I shepherd that one of my passport presidents always says, yeah, we know, Pete. You squeeze the agency's penny until nickel scream or till Lincoln screams. Yeah. 

Kevin Deary:
And. But it's important for us to be good stewards of the money. Oh, yeah, nonprofits. You know, we exist on grants, foundations, special events, and most importantly, individual donors like that $2 donor. If somebody wanted to help cancer resources. How would they do that? 

Peter Norton:
Oh, they could. They could make any kind of donation. They could make a cash donation. They could get on elkhartcancer.org which is our website, and make a donation, send us a check. And, you know, we've had donations in other ways. I had a guy call me up a couple years ago, and he had bought a bond that was going to mature, and his tax guy said, just donate the whole thing. You're just going to take too big a hit. You know, I've had people wire us money out of different places. There was one guy called me up and he said, I called my life insurance agent and I told him, hey, when I go, give them 10%. So that was a click on a database and didn't need a lawyer for that. So there's all kinds of ways. In the last five years, six people remembered us in their will, you know, so there's just all kinds of different ways. Memorial contributions. Have you ever read an obituary, and at the bottom it says, make a donation. Don't send flowers. Don't tell Manskes I said this, but people do that. Manskes is a good supporter of ours, but, geez, I think last year we made 12 or $13,000 in memorial contributions. So, you know, as long as we're top of mind and people are thinking at the right minute, you know, I. 

Kevin Deary:
Really love how you meet people where they're at, and they're probably not coming in alone. They're probably coming in with a spouse or a child. Yeah, if they're older. 

Peter Norton:
Very rarely does a cancer patient come in without a support person. There's always one person that's organizing the whole rest of the family, you know, and don't get me wrong, it's hard on the caregiver because I was one. And there have been times where I've literally almost taken a caregiver by the lapels and shook them and said, you got to carve out some time in your life away from cancer because you are going to burn out and you're going to be no good for your loved one. You know, sometimes you got to say hard things to people. I'll never forget. I was. I was in a management class. And in the little margins of the text, there were these little blurbs of wisdom from different CEOs. And one of them, it goes. I'm going to paraphrase here, the definition of leadership is telling people hard things. You know, sometimes they need it. I had a lady in the office one time. This may be two you can edit this part out if you need to. She came in, she was an adult. She was probably in her 40s, and her mother had cancer, was just diagnosed with cancer. And it was everywhere. I mean, it was everywhere. And she was distraught. And she said on and on about how she was a Christian, she believed in God, and God was going to do a miracle, and God was going to save her mother. And I looked at her and said, well, you know, I'm a Christian, too. But I'll tell you what, God has a plan for us, and part of that plan is there's a day we're going to leave this earth, and I think your mother's time is close. And honestly, the look on that woman's face was almost like I had gotten up and physically slapped her. But she needed it. She's going to have a nervous breakdown. When her mother died, she needed to start accepting it. And now, having said that, I bet 70 or 80% of the people who come to us looking for help hit remission within two years. So overwhelmingly, our people are going to get through this. Now, it's scary, it's expensive, it's painful, it's stressful. Yeah. And I want to help them get through it, but I want them to get through their head. They're going to get through this. So get through this with as much of your sanity and as much of your bank account as you can. And that largely means making sure you're staying in your network, because networks are paper thin now. It's so easy to get treatment or a test outside a network. You know, cancer treatment, you're looking at 100, 200, $300,000 a year. You know, you just can't afford to go out and network. I'd say the median out of pocket cost with insurance is about 5 or $8,000 a year. So it's manageable for most folks. You have to set up a payment plan. You get a small car payment. You don't get the car, but you get to live. So that's pretty good. 

Kevin Deary:
You know, Pete, because I've known you so long and just hearing your story of you never know who's coming through the door, the next cancer patient. You never know who's calling to make an appointment to come see you. Cancer never stops, Never takes a break. 

Peter Norton:
No. 

Kevin Deary:
And I often think about. So when you go home. So how do you deal with all that? And turn off. And before you answer that, I want to share with our listeners that I happen to know that you are an amazing guitar player and A singer. 

Peter Norton:
I'm a mediocre guitar player. 

Kevin Deary:
I have heard you for many years and you are. You work hard at it. And as a struggling mandolin one time, I have such respect for those musicians who put the time in for no apparent reason other than just for the love of music. 

Peter Norton:
Oh, it's my mental health. Yeah, it's my getaway. It's, you know, coming home from work, no matter how stressful work is, I'm gonna sit down, pick up my guitar and 20 or 30 minutes later I'm gonna feel a lot better. So it's, it's. Yeah, it's definitely my mental health. 

Kevin Deary:
This. So, as you know, Pete Marshall knows that we have a CEO retreat that we host for 80, 90 CEOs. 

Peter Norton:
Yeah, it's awesome. It's awesome every year. 

Kevin Deary:
And many of the CEOs struggle with stress because their jobs are stressful. Not just being CEO and figuring out money, trying to figure out volunteers and staff and board, community, but it's the pain that they see constantly, all the time, much like a first responder would. And we had the joy of you coming in with your guitar around the campfires and you playing the piece that we. That I saw anyways, the gift of sharing a stress free time where they could just. They were so focused on the fire and your singing and your guitar and many of the conversations stopped and they just were together. And I'm so appreciative of your gift of relieving them, even for a short time through your music. And you have multiple gifts, but that gift was very special for us and I wanted to thank you for that. 

Peter Norton:
Well, I appreciate that. That's very sweet of it. 

Marshall King:
The s'mores and the adult beverages don't hurt. But you're right. 

Peter Norton:
I'm not sure they were hearing me quite clearly. 

Marshall King:
No, they were. But I would affirm what Kevin said. I mean, you and your guit around that campfire at the CEO retreat is a glorious thing. And the collegiality of that group of leaders of nonprofits in our community and the way that we're able to, for two days, support them and show them some love and let them recharge their batteries, but also interact with each other is one of the things that I'm really proud of that we do here at the foundation. 

Peter Norton:
Yeah, it's awesome. And I got to tell you, if you're a Elkhart county nonprofit director and you're not in one of the monthly meetings, you're missing out because. Well, I mean, we did it for years. Kevin and we still do it. I still do it. And there were so many times something came up in the office and I went, I know who to call. I know how to handle this. I know what to do. Just because one of the other agencies went through something similar. And I'm like, I know exactly what to do. 

Kevin Deary:
And those would be the CEO roundtables that we have once a month. And you can contact me at the Community foundation of Elcar county, and we can get you set up on. We have seven nonprofit CEO roundtables, including down in Kosciuszko county now. 

Peter Norton:
Oh, really? That's cool. 

Kevin Deary:
They heard what we were doing, and now we're leading one down there as well. So there's just so, so much. The landscape has changed so much. When I arrived on the scene in 1994, back in the day as CEO, the landscape was way different. We didn't know each other. And first of all, there were a lot less nonprofits, and we just didn't know each other. And then over the years, we came together and really thanks to the Community Foundation's vision of just bringing us together to do trainings and to do the roundtables, you and I are kind of OG originals on the round tables. And we really got to know each other, trust each other, and we began to share resources. I mean, just exactly what you said. 

Peter Norton:
Well, the nice thing about those things is they're Las Vegas. What happens there stays there. Nobody else is going to know about it. And so the discussion can become very open and very frank at times. And you need that, you need that. And, you know, I've said to some of my vendors who are entrepreneurs and even running pretty good sized companies, like, I feel sorry for you. You got nobody to talk to about this. For years, my wife practiced law. She couldn't go talk to another lawyer about what was going on in her office. That was all. She couldn't possibly disclose that. And, boy, it really helps when you can talk to somebody who knows what you're going through. 

Kevin Deary:
Yes, much like cancer doctors, cancer nurses. 

Peter Norton:
Much like the clients. I mean, there are times, especially through Covid. I mean, I'd be on the phone with them a couple hours. They just needed to talk. 

Marshall King:
Pete, you told the story about your mom and her, you know, her journey with cancer. You've walked alongside people with cancer for a long time. 

Kevin Deary:
What's. 

Marshall King:
What's the same now as when you started? And what's different? 

Peter Norton:
The same are the emotions. The same are the feelings the family has, the stress, the not knowing what's Going to happen. What's different is the technology. The technology has just become. Has come so far. I mean, yeah, there's still surgery and chemo and radiation, but the immunotherapy is really exciting in what immunotherapy does Is it actually trains your immune system to, one, take away the advantage that cancer has of hiding from your immune system, and, two, chemically targeting your immune system to go after it. And they are using immunotherapy in conjunction with the standard treatments More and more and more. And in fact, if you had melanoma, which is the bad skin cancer, and it got internalized and is spreading internally, now all they use is immunotherapy. They don't even use the other therapies. And it works. And it works. And so what's really exciting Is the treatments and some of these new things, like this rsv technology, which is what they used for the COVID shots. There's serious applications that they can use this rsv technology around cancer. So, you know, who knows? I mean, we could be only a generation or two away from this cancer being a chronic problem and not a deadly problem. It'd be like there's a drug that came out a while ago Called gleevec, and it's a protein inhibitor, and you take this pill every day, and you have cancer the rest of your life, it just stops growing. And so that then cancer becomes like diabetes. You know, you get. You got it, but you got to manage it and treat it. But you're going to be okay as long as you do that. So hopefully, cancer will take. Make that. And then see, all those emotions, those will go away. Because when technology gets to that point that this becomes a chronic disease and not a deadly disease, Then when people are diagnosed with it, they'll just go, oh, so what do you do to treat me? 

Kevin Deary:
So, pete, how does cancer resources of elkhart county, if that does happen, how do you adjust your organization strategically when that happens and it becomes treatable? More treatable? 

Peter Norton:
Yeah. Well, it won't be cheap. It won't be cheap. Yeah. 

Kevin Deary:
So there'll always be a need for. 

Peter Norton:
I can't right now imagine that there wouldn't be a need for help, because it is, let's face it, Cancer treatment and cancer research Is unbelievably complex. You know, I always tell people, when your friends and family Give you advice about your cancer treatment, they're doing it because they love you. It's sweet. Don't listen to them. Listen to the guy who beat the 99% flunk out rate to actually become a cancer doctor. Right. So. 

Kevin Deary:
Because the Internet is just full of information. 

Peter Norton:
Oh, listen, I always say the Internet can't be wrong. I mean, it's, you know, and it. 

Kevin Deary:
Could give you some information, but you really need to listen to your. The providers around you, places like you, who can help guide to real information. 

Peter Norton:
Yeah, well. And honestly, as far as I'm concerned, if you have questions, talk to your doctor. Don't go out looking for stuff because. And I'll tell you what I had. I treated a woman. She was a psychology professor. I treated, I helped her at Goshen College. And she was telling me she was reading the reports that were coming back from the lab. And I said, you know, you're never going to understand the chemistry. Don't bother with that. Let the doctor worry about that. And she said, well, I've actually done a lot of research on the brain and I really do understand what I'm reading, but it scared me, so I quit reading it. And I said, good, good. Don't, don't. 

Marshall King:
So what advice do you have for folks who may. A loved one may have just gotten a diagnosis or a good friend may have just gotten a diagnosis. What should, what should we do when that happens? 

Peter Norton:
You mean to support the cancer patient? Just don't change. You know, just be whatever relationship you have with them. Be that relationship. Now, there's a weird thing where a cancer patient will say, you know, I told my best friend about my diagnosis and haven't heard from him in six weeks. Well, I always say to him, look, that's your friend's problem. Your friend is having the problem, okay? And that's the way they're dealing with it. And I know that stinks for you, but really, just, just be that. Just be there with them. Just be whoever you are with them. Don't change. Let them talk if they want to talk. If they want to talk about football or whatever, then do that. You know, that's great advice. 

Kevin Deary:
You know, P. We. Your. You and I are quickly becoming the post generation. There's a. There's so many new execs coming in that are just so good. 

Peter Norton:
I'm sorry to hear that. 

Kevin Deary:
I didn't say exes. As far as wives, new executive directors, CEOs, they have their. Many of them. They all. They know high tech better than we ever learn. High tech. 

Peter Norton:
Yeah. 

Kevin Deary:
And they're coming into a changing landscape now. Board, development, staff, volunteers, fundraising, the use of the Internet to raise money. There's just so many different ways that were different than how when we started? 

Peter Norton:
Absolutely. 

Kevin Deary:
If there was a room full of new executive directors in El county and you could counsel them on best practices, what would you tell them? 

Peter Norton:
Do this first. Do this because you feel for it. You can make more money in the private sector. Do it because you feel for it. Second thing I would say is the trick is to keep all the balls in the air. So you've got to make sure that you're dealing with the money, shepherding the money, the fundraising, the donors, the clients, the staff, the accounting, you know, the. Your cpa. You gotta. You gotta make sure you're keeping all those balls in the air. Have accountability partners, have people you can go to. Have good board members. You know, honestly, if your board is having trouble, if your board is not cohesive, then you need to think about turning some people over and you need to think about bringing some people in that are. That are. That are going to be able to work with the team. You know, for the organization to be successful, you need to have successful teams, Whether it's your fundraising committees, whether it's your board, whether it's your staff. Your teams have to be functional. There's that. There's an old saying that. This was Dino Signori. He was our facilitator for our monthly meetings. He used to say, we're way too quick to hire and we're way too late to fire. He's like, look, you can counsel people, you can train people, but you can't fix them. And so if you don't have a quality team. And how many times have you worked somewhere where after an extended period, the boss finally got rid of that troubled person and the whole rest of the staff went, thank goodness. Because mostly people want to do a good job. I mean, mostly they do. You know us. 

Kevin Deary:
So true. Starting with the CEO, executive director, they have to set the pace. 

Peter Norton:
Yeah. 

Kevin Deary:
One of the things that was important to me was make sure nobody outworked me. 

Peter Norton:
Yeah. 

Kevin Deary:
And somebody would say, well, that's just your generation. But I really believe that because in our world, we want to make sure that our staff are keeping. Keeping a good pace. I think I learned boundaries later in life, but. Because I just worked insane hours. But. And I think in many ways, some of that is not the greatest balance of life work. But now I think I would give young people a little bit more. Pay attention. Make sure you're a good spouse, make sure you're a good parent. Make sure you're trying to make good, healthy life decisions. Mentally, spiritually, physically. 

Peter Norton:
Yeah. Well, who's the several CEO retreats ago. There was the professor you guys brought in from Cincinnati, and her whole thing was workplace stress. And she said the people who use all of their vacations get promoted the fastest. You know, this idea that we work longer, harder, more, and we get better is denying human biology. We need balance. Look, we obviously work hard. We've got important jobs, and I like what I do, and I like working hard. But you know what? You need to be away from work. You need to have your. You know, my grandson, my kids, my buddies, my tennis game, my guitar. You know, you need to have balance. My wife. Gee, I made her last. You're not going to broadcast this, are you? Okay. All right. I love you, honey. Yeah, you need balance in life. You need balance. You're going to work hard, absolutely. But you need that balance. And now I've gotten to the point where, like, at 3 in the morning, when I woke up, I was actively telling myself, stop thinking about work. You're at home. Stop thinking about work. 

Kevin Deary:
You know, Cancer Resources of Elkhart county, under your leadership, has helped thousands of people. And long after you're gone, it will continue to help thousands of people. 

Peter Norton:
Yeah. 

Kevin Deary:
And not only people who will find they have cancer, but people who aren't even born yet, who eventually will get cancer. 

Peter Norton:
Well, and more than that, we work with the caregiver and the families. And I had a lady come in one time. She was about 35, 37, and she had breast cancer. And it was caught early. She was going to be okay. She was going to get through it. And she had three kids. And I said to her, how are your kids doing? She said, you know, they're okay. They're a little worried. She goes, I don't know. My middle one, it used to be all the sports. She was in all the clubs, and now she just quit all that. And she came home and she sits in her room, and I'm like, that's textbook depression. Take her to the doctor. She needs to get on an antidepressant. And mom goes, really? And I go, yeah, that's textbook. You know, she needs a little help right now. There's no shame in it. Our brain's the most complex thing in our body. 

Kevin Deary:
You know, Pete, as we start to wind up. We were young once, and we've watched Elkhart County. I love this place. I do, too. It is such a unique place of where nonprofits get along. Well, it's like the Serengeti, where the zebras, the lions, everybody kind of lives together. 

Peter Norton:
Or the lion King or the Lion King. 

Kevin Deary:
Right. But also the fact that this is such a generous. 

Peter Norton:
Shall we break out into song? Well, you are not kidding. And I said for you years, I feel so sorry for millionaires in Elkhart county because, boy, we are all putting the touch on them. 

Kevin Deary:
But they are so generous. They are so giving. 

Peter Norton:
Yeah. 

Kevin Deary:
This. This place is very special to me, to us. You know, I stayed. I moved here from New England 32, 33 years ago. 

Peter Norton:
Yeah. 

Kevin Deary:
And I never wanted to leave. And I will not. I will end my life here because of the people. 

Peter Norton:
Yeah. 

Kevin Deary:
And for places like you and for leaders like you and for your organization that just helps people deal with some very tough things in their life. And I can't be more grateful and more proud of you. 

Peter Norton:
Well, thank you. 

Kevin Deary:
And I just wanted to say thank you for being on the show. Marshall always asks this question to wind it up, but I can't think of a better question that I can't wait to hear the answer from you than this. 

Marshall King:
Yeah, I mean, this podcast will air in December during that giving season when, you know, you hope that the checks come in from year end giving. I think you've made the pitch for why your organization is worthy of consideration and how it does help people in our community. I want to echo Kevin's thanks, but Peter Norton, what gives you hope? 

Peter Norton:
The clients. Yeah, the clients. You know, I give X amount of money for each cancer patient and you build a relationship with these folks. And when they come in and you know, they have need and I have to tell them we've used all the funds we have available for you, they immediately start profusely thanking me. I'm gonna crack up here, you know, and I mean, they need more help, but they will be just enthusiastically thanking me. So, yeah, I suppose that's it. 

Kevin Deary:
Yeah. 

Marshall King:
I can't think of a better way to end this. Thank you for that. And thank you. Thank you for your work and for being here today. 

Peter Norton:
No, thank you, guys. You do good work too. 

Marshall King:
This show is a production of the Community foundation of Elkhart County. It is powered by equipment from Sweetwater and recorded at the Community Foundation's offices in Elkhart's River District. Editing is done by the award winning communication students at Goshen College, home of one of the best college radio stations in the nation. Listen to Globe Radio at 91.1 FM. Music is provided by Sensational Sounds. Learn more about the Community foundation of elkhart county@inspiringgood.org you can follow us on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn. Thanks for listening we hope you're inspired and inspire good in your community.