Episode 37: Love, Business and Boundaries: Navigating Entrepreneurship as a Couple

In this powerful and heartfelt episode, Jennifer Kok sits down with relationship coach Kathy Rushing, founder of Lodestar Relationship Coaching,  to explore the unique dynamics of marriage, business partnerships, and entrepreneurship. With over 40 years of marriage and decades of entrepreneurial experience, Kathy brings an insightful perspective to the conversation—especially for couples navigating business ownership together or individuals whose partners “just don’t get” entrepreneurship.

Whether you’re working side-by-side with your spouse, partnered in business with a friend, or managing a household with a non-entrepreneurial partner, this episode is filled with practical wisdom, humor, and heart.

🔑 In This Episode:

• How to navigate boundaries and roles as a husband-wife business duo
• Kathy’s CRAVE Framework for staying connected in relationships
• How to manage expectations and communication in non-related partnerships
• The emotional toll of entrepreneurship and how to build resilience
• What to do when your spouse doesn’t understand your business

📎 Resources Mentioned:

• 30-Minute Weekly Check-In Template
• Connect with Kathy on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kathyrushing
• Learn more at: www.kathyrushing.com

Meet our Guest: 

Kathy Rushing helps growth-minded individuals and couples build relationships that thrive through all seasons of life. Launched in 2023, Lodestar Relationship Coaching allows her to work with families, couples, and individuals virtually anywhere.

Kathy's secret sauce? She blends over 30 years of experience as a Marriage and Family Counselor with wisdom from her 40+ year marriage to Mark, a serial entrepreneur. Her podcast, "Committed: The Entrepreneur Marriage," offers real-world guidance for creating strong partnerships while pursuing dreams.

About the Host: 

Jennifer Kok has been a business owner for over 25 years and now is a business coach. She turned her first business into a franchise and successfully sold it 20 years later.  She was passionate about building a business and a family at the same time.

Today she works with creative business owners who are tired of not getting paid enough for their hard work.  She walks them through the 3-step process she developed to allow them to Create More…Earn More…Stress Less which leads them to double digit growth, increased profits and allows them to pay themselves more. 

What if I told you that growing your business doesn’t have to mean working more hours? What if—right now—you could be sitting on untapped profit without even realizing it?  In the free resource I’m going to walk you through the exact 3-step framework I used to help a client increase net profit by 193%—without adding more hours to her workweek. Read how you can do it too.
https://nextwavebusinesscoaching.com/profit-boost

Connect with Jen:  

https://nextwavebusinesscoaching.com/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/jenniferowenskok/

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You’ve Built a Business You’re Proud Of -But It’s Time for It to Work for You. You’re still wearing all the hats, working long hours, and not paying yourself what you deserve. You know there’s more possible. More profit, more clarity, and more freedom to enjoy the life you’re building.  The Earn More Stress Less 9-Pillar Blueprint helps women entrepreneurs with families create profitable businesses that finally pay them back. 

My name is Jennifer Kok, and I’m a profit and growth advisor for service-based women entrepreneurs. I help women business owners make smarter, more strategic decisions so they can grow profitably, pay themselves consistently, and avoid burnout.

Because the truth is, business owners make decisions all day long, but the ones that really matter are often the hardest ones. Should I hire? Raise my prices? Invest in marketing? Let go of a draining client? Expand, or simplify?

Those decisions carry weight, and they can impact your time, your profit, your energy, and your long-term growth.

That’s why I created the Focused Growth Collective, a virtual mastermind for women business owners who want support making the kinds of decisions that move a business forward. Yes, we talk strategy, but we also look at the bigger picture like mental load, health, profit, and long-term sustainability.

My goal is to help women build businesses that pay them well, support their lives, and still feel worth leading 10 years from now.

Connect with me:
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Transcript

Jennifer Kok (00:01.432)

Welcome, Kathy, to the show. I'm so excited to talk to you today.

Kathy Rushing (00:05.656)

Hey Jennifer, it is great to be here. I have been looking forward to it.

Jennifer Kok (00:10.736)

Well, I know when you and I, you and I met through LinkedIn and you are located in Colorado, correct?

Kathy Rushing (00:16.684)

I am Northern Colorado where the calendar says springtime, but everything is brown.

Jennifer Kok (00:23.268)

Well, I'm in Michigan where the calendar says spring and we had snow this morning. you know, but anyway, but that's what I love about LinkedIn is the ability to meet people outside of our area. And we love to travel to Colorado. So hopefully you and I at some point can meet in person.

Kathy Rushing (00:27.295)

my goodness. Yeah, yeah. Same here, night before last.

Kathy Rushing (00:36.333)

Yeah.

Kathy Rushing (00:39.97)

That would be so awesome.

Jennifer Kok (00:42.19)

So today your business is Lodestar Relationship, your relationship coach. And I'm really excited to dive into all your wisdom. But before you got to Lodestar, give us a little, you know, the quick version of your story. Because I know you and your husband were entrepreneurs as well, correct?

Kathy Rushing (01:00.064)

We are, we are different types of entrepreneurs. am and always have been more of a solo entrepreneur. I just knew that I didn't want to work for anybody else. I didn't have the word entrepreneur in my vocabulary when we married in 1980. Your listeners can do the math. That's 45 years ago. So yeah, thank you. Yeah, thank you. Yeah, so it's been a long journey.

Jennifer Kok (01:19.268)

Well, congratulations, because that's something to celebrate.

Kathy Rushing (01:25.87)

I began as a marriage and family therapist. I was licensed first in California. And then we moved to Texas where I transferred my license and worked in a couple of different settings, had a private practice for about 10 years. And then, um, I don't know, I lose track of how many years ago it was. I used to say it was a couple of years ago. And then I looked at the calendar. was like, no, it was more like 10 years ago that I closed my private practice.

to do some business coaching. I thought, I wanna dabble in maybe family businesses. That intrigued me. At the time that I closed my practice, my husband Mark had, he had started a business called AllsCare, A-L-Z-C-A-R-E, in 1998. It was an assisted living.

business that took care of people with Alzheimer's and other dementias. So that business had been going for some time and it was growing and I what I ended up doing was working with our hiring process and I got certified in some different assessments. One of which is the disk and I use that a lot now with couples because I find it such an interesting tool for quickly getting

some very helpful information about how each of you are wired. And when one is an entrepreneur, it can quickly short circuit the relationship. So did the business coaching for a few years, and then we were traveling a little more, bought a home, second home in Colorado, and then found ourselves in the pandemic kind of full time.

in Granby, which is a mountain community that we loved. But it felt pretty isolated and two of our kids are here in Fort Collins. And so we started the process of, you know, looking for and buying a home here in Fort Collins. So we've been here for four years now. And we ended up losing that.

Kathy Rushing (03:45.838)

Alzheimer's business in the pandemic. was the pandemic was really, really rough on assisted living businesses. so yeah, 22 year business, had exceeded all of the statistics of how long businesses survive. And so the last three years have been pretty life changing in many ways. We have

Jennifer Kok (03:52.304)

Hmm. yeah.

Kathy Rushing (04:14.542)

worked hard at resilience and you know we're still standing. But that is some of what prompted me to launch Lodestar relationship coaching and so as a coach I can work with individuals or couples virtually anywhere whereas when you're licensed you're limited to that whatever state you're licensed in. So.

Jennifer Kok (04:37.068)

Okay, okay. Wow, what a powerful entrepreneurial journey story you have. And you know, you're not alone with the pandemic. There were just some businesses, no matter how successful you were, no matter how savvy you are, there were just some businesses that could not weather what was thrown at them during the pandemic.

Kathy Rushing (04:54.168)

Yeah.

Kathy Rushing (04:58.21)

Yeah, I mean, we were literally shut down by the government for months. And so when you can't admit people and people are dying, which I mean, we, you know, we would lose people regularly because they, don't ever leave when they check in, they are coming there. We provided end of life care. And so, yeah, we were shut down and we took all the government aid that was offered. We shoveled in, we, we had a great partner.

Jennifer Kok (05:02.478)

Yeah.

Kathy Rushing (05:27.822)

shoveled in money till there was no more to shovel, you know, and that's what you know, that's where we got to the point of just making the excruciating decision because You know and had our marriage, you know had we not Focused on and really built a strong foundation in those 40 plus years You know, I think a lot of marriages would not have weathered that storm. And so I'm very grateful that

Jennifer Kok (05:30.746)

Yeah.

Kathy Rushing (05:56.13)

Like I said, are still, you know, we have each other's back and we, we have not worked in the business together, but with all's care, especially we talked about it all the time and he values my input. So yeah.

Jennifer Kok (06:10.372)

Mm-hmm.

Jennifer Kok (06:15.812)

Well, you're learning to thrive in a different way.

Kathy Rushing (06:18.86)

Very much so, yep.

Jennifer Kok (06:20.784)

So one of the reasons I really wanted to talk with you today is, you know, I'm a business coach and I work with the business owners and I work with a couple of husband wife duos where they're both actively working in the same business, but also work with people that have business partnerships. And then the other dynamic that you touched on where one of the partners is an entrepreneur and the other one isn't. So we've got three completely different partnerships here.

Kathy Rushing (06:48.782)

You

Jennifer Kok (06:50.806)

And I really wanted to just dive into some of your wisdom and your tools and your best practices on helping these people in these situations kind of navigate that. So let's start with the husband-wife duo, shall we? So what I love about working with the husband-wife duo is they're very passionate about their businesses. They're also very dedicated to growing their businesses because that's their only source of income for their family.

Kathy Rushing (07:05.198)

Sure.

Kathy Rushing (07:19.374)

Right?

Jennifer Kok (07:20.43)

But at times as their business coach, sometimes I feel like I should have a degree in marriage therapy and not that they're bringing me all their baggage, but it is an interesting dynamic. And I think the biggest factor is really probably what I see from the outside non-therapist lens is trust that whatever lane or role they're each taking that the other partner is going to trust it happens and not try to control the way they do it.

Kathy Rushing (07:26.03)

Right.

Jennifer Kok (07:51.402)

And also, probably the bigger one is boundaries. How do we, as a husband-wife duo, build a business, build a family where the only thing we're not talking about is our business?

Kathy Rushing (08:02.254)

Yeah. How much time do we have? You mentioned, I know, I know. I, yeah, well, and my observation, again, Mark and I did not work in the business. We did for a very short time and we realized that was not a good place for us to be. So.

Jennifer Kok (08:04.974)

hahahaha

I know we're not gonna solve this in 30 minutes, but you know, I would just love to hear your take on that.

Kathy Rushing (08:25.728)

I think the challenge when they are both working in the business, especially if it is a very small business, as in maybe they're the only two employees or maybe there's one or two others, is that while there are many roles that have to be filled in any business, there are many seats, right? And I don't know if you're familiar or your listeners are familiar with EOS, Entrepreneur Operating System, fantastic.

Jennifer Kok (08:52.612)

Yes.

Kathy Rushing (08:54.594)

book that has taken probably 100 business books and distilled it into, yes, this makes so much sense, right? So they kind of outline the different seats. The challenge when you're a husband-wife duo is you might be in a seat you don't want, that you are not gifted for, or you may be wearing, likely, are wearing three or four hats. so, like, I had a couple.

two years ago they were actually the first couple I had when I launched this business and what struck me was they really couldn't settle on those lanes as you said the lanes are the seats so I think it begins with clarity about what are the seats that must be covered in order for this business you know for us to take care of business you've got to have someone that's doing accounting bookkeeping billing sales marketing

Jennifer Kok (09:32.24)

Mmm.

Kathy Rushing (09:51.7)

someone has to be giving direction. Like, you know, you can't have a two headed monster. And I think the couples that succeed in this are couples that can be fluid with the seasons of life. I did an interview with Ben and Liz Bohannon a couple of years ago. I just adore them. They founded Seiko, S-S-E-K-O.

Jennifer Kok (09:56.016)

That's right.

Kathy Rushing (10:20.846)

which was a, I to think how they called it. It was, they partnered with women in Africa to be able to provide jobs. So they made these sandals and leather goods. But they did this as a husband wife team for a long time. They since have merged with another Noonday, I think. Anyway, on that, they now have three little boys and...

They talked about how they would review their roles like every I don't know that they had a regular like maybe it was every three months Maybe it was every six months But they would look at the roles like especially if someone's in a role They don't really want but somebody has to do it. So maybe they would swap those roles or maybe Liz had just had one of their little baby boys and she's not as available. So he took on more things so

I just loved their example of what a healthy partnership looks like in terms of again, being fluid and not fixed. think the more rigid we are, the more conflict there is. And if there is anything we need as entrepreneurs, it is resilience. And some of that resilience means being able to adapt and negotiate.

But so boundaries knowing who is in what role wearing what hat and then there are boundaries around your time and especially when couples work from home. I met with a couple recently who work out of the same office. So my husband I tried that for a very short time years ago and he's a very loud talker and I'm like I can't hear what I'm you know, I'm trying to make maybe do mental work.

Jennifer Kok (12:02.456)

yeah.

Jennifer Kok (12:13.551)

Right.

Kathy Rushing (12:14.222)

But this couple they have a little one that was not yet two and she's pregnant with their second and they're working from their home in the same office. And so that's the very thing we talked about was getting very clear about boundaries. Like how do we set up the day communicating what we need and asking for what we need and how can I support you?

because otherwise it's just this massive blob of work that spills over into home, home spills over into work. And so even if it's just, okay, at five o'clock or six o'clock or whatever time you agree on, we close the office door and then you have some guidelines around, don't talk about business tonight.

Jennifer Kok (13:09.071)

Right.

Kathy Rushing (13:09.226)

If you need to continue talking about it, then we set a time to do that. And it's not date night. Date night is not a business meeting.

Jennifer Kok (13:16.214)

Exactly. And so it's almost like, in a sense, you really kind of need to treat your spousal partner in business like you would treat a business partner that you're not related to. You know, I think sometimes we're just a little too comfortable with each other. We know each other's, you know, tick points and little habits and nuances. And it's probably could be very easy to bleed into, am not business partner right now, I'm white.

Kathy Rushing (13:30.732)

Yes.

Kathy Rushing (13:37.976)

Right?

Kathy Rushing (13:46.242)

Yes, yes.

Jennifer Kok (13:47.128)

and how do we, so we really need to kind of separate ourselves during the business hours, which sounds like it really comes down to being clear, very clear on those roles. But like you said, being willing to adapt, because like we know, business changes day to day.

Kathy Rushing (13:57.58)

Yeah, and.

Kathy Rushing (14:03.436)

Right. Yeah, I put together and I send it to you. So hopefully it will be in the show notes, but I put together a template that couples can use all couples, not even just, you know, they don't have to be working together or entrepreneurs. It's a 30 minute weekly check in. But the other thing that I came up with is a five pillar, five pillars of staying connected, I guess. And I call it crave.

C-R-A-V-E. So C is communication, having good communication skills, which means conflict skills also. R is rhythms that connect. A is appreciation, affirmation. V is creating vision together. So especially if they're working together, where are we going with this? What is our end goal? And really being clear about

a long-term goal, say a 10-year goal, five-year goals, one-year goals, and not just for the business, but for the marriage also and your family. And then E is for energy because entrepreneurs are famous for not having an off switch, you know? And so we have to protect our energy. We need to pay attention to it and protect it. So...

Jennifer Kok (15:19.651)

Right.

Kathy Rushing (15:30.134)

Those five pillars, I think for all couples, it's just a way of staying connected in a healthy way. And so that the rhythm, you know, where that would apply to couples that work together is what is your rhythm for starting the day? What is your rhythm for ending the day? What is your rhythm for taking off the hat that that is business partner and putting on the one that is lover?

I mean, it's hard to go from, you know, working on a spreadsheet to suddenly you're expected to be sexy. And so having that time to really focus on each other as people, you are more than an entrepreneur. You have interests, each person does. So yeah, those are some initial thoughts.

Jennifer Kok (16:04.944)

Right.

Jennifer Kok (16:19.658)

great. Yes, great tools. And I definitely for sure, we'll put those in the show notes. So let's transition now to non-related business partnerships. Cause you said you've also helped some people with relationship coaching, communication coaching in this regard. And the statistics are not great for partnerships. They tend to not survive long-term.

Kathy Rushing (16:30.146)

Mm-hmm.

Jennifer Kok (16:43.618)

And usually from a tactical standpoint, a business coach or advisor will tell you that one of them has to have at least 51 % ownership. One of the two has to be able to make the final decision. So a lot of these tools that you talk about that we can use in our marriages or in our husband, wife, entrepreneurship duos, can they also apply to non-related business partners?

Kathy Rushing (17:09.026)

Well, absolutely. I mean, I have not mentioned the speaker listener tool, and we probably don't have time to unpack that whole tool. Again, if someone listening is interested, email me. You have my info at kathyrushing.com. And I'll send you just a, you know, I've written it up as a PDF. But the speaker listener tool is really an active listening tool, which is

something I teach every couple I work with, but it absolutely applies to parents and teenagers or business partners because we get so focused on trying to get our point across or make sure that we are heard, that we don't really listen. And so when we talk about communication a lot of times, it is more about listening than speaking.

Jennifer Kok (18:03.003)

boy, yeah, I'm like, I'm not gonna name names on the podcast, but I got about five people I'd love to send that tool to right now.

Kathy Rushing (18:10.766)

Yep, I've done it as you know, if you're on LinkedIn, you can come find me because I did a presentation on it. It's there as a live video. So you can also find it there or just email me and I'll give some more information. But yes, partnerships are are really tricky. And so you're talking about non non non related. Yes. Okay.

Jennifer Kok (18:34.714)

unrelated.

Kathy Rushing (18:38.454)

Yeah, because I hear too often people that have gone into business with a friend or some other family member and they've not specified clear understanding. find that with entrepreneurs. Most entrepreneurs that I've met are ready, fire, aim. You know, they come back after the fact and go, gosh, I wish I'd known. I mean, that's my husband, have such passion for sharing what we've learned usually the hard way.

Jennifer Kok (18:43.353)

Yes.

Jennifer Kok (18:57.486)

Yes. Yes.

Kathy Rushing (19:08.398)

to try to help other entrepreneurs and especially those who are married, not necessarily working together, but just hear some things to think about and questions to ask that will save you a lot of pain down the road.

Jennifer Kok (19:25.336)

Right. And I think too, a lot of times what I see is unrealistic expectations. You know, especially entrepreneurs, like you said, they're, you know, they aim last, they just fire, they go, they're energetic, that, you know, they're going to solve, save the world, solve all the problems. And they feel that they're going to be at a certain level earlier than they achieve. And so then when that doesn't happen,

Kathy Rushing (19:31.83)

Okay.

Kathy Rushing (19:38.114)

Right. Yeah.

Kathy Rushing (19:49.048)

Hmm?

Jennifer Kok (19:50.958)

you know, this is where blame can come in. You see all the emotions that come up with it. And so I feel like expectations too, kind of managing that at the front end, like being realistic, how long is it gonna take to really grow this business? And how much do we really think we are gonna take home and pay ourselves personally for the first few years? And you know, some of those hard tech, you know, strategic questions too, need to come into play. So.

Kathy Rushing (19:55.757)

Yes.

Kathy Rushing (20:01.23)

Hmm?

Kathy Rushing (20:04.856)

Right.

Kathy Rushing (20:10.456)

right?

Kathy Rushing (20:14.382)

Yeah. Yeah, I loved it when you and I visited, I don't know, it was last month or so that I think you said that you primarily focus on people in their first five years of business. And that's so great because the statistics are not encouraging. I did a presentation last week and so kind of revisited the SBA statistics of businesses that fail. And it's actually in the first year.

Jennifer Kok (20:25.721)

Yes, yeah.

Jennifer Kok (20:31.504)

They're not, no.

Jennifer Kok (20:40.57)

Mm-hmm.

Kathy Rushing (20:44.898)

the stats have gone up from 18 something percent to 22 % in the first year will fail, yeah. And by five years, it's almost 50%. Yeah.

Jennifer Kok (20:50.412)

The first, okay, yeah.

Jennifer Kok (20:56.076)

Mm-hmm. Yeah, and I'm very passionate about that. And one of the things I always say is, they really failing or are they quitting? And a lot of times they're quitting because they don't have the right resources, they haven't managed cash flow or things like that properly, and unrealistic expectations. They start to get down on themselves or all of those things. But yes, it is important. And I would think with partnerships, it'd be curious to know if there's separate statistics for partnerships.

Kathy Rushing (21:06.678)

Hmm. Yep.

Kathy Rushing (21:17.912)

Mm-hmm.

Kathy Rushing (21:25.27)

Yeah, haven't. I honestly haven't dug into that a lot. And I've, you know, met with a few business partners. The bulk of my work and awareness, I think, is more with how the intersection of business and marriage collide sometimes, because it's just not talked about enough. And yet it is. There's a book by Meg.

Jennifer Kok (21:44.6)

Yes, yes.

now.

Kathy Rushing (21:53.88)

What's her middle name? Hirschberg, think it's her last name. Her husband started Stonyfield Farms, the yogurt, organic yogurt, yeah. And she had a column in LinkedIn for several years writing about this very thing, the interplay, the overlap of family, marriage, and business. Of course, theirs was very messy because it was.

Jennifer Kok (22:02.685)

yeah, mm-hmm.

Kathy Rushing (22:21.72)

I mean, she, you know, they lived on a dairy farm and she's like, I'm nursing a baby and there's people coming through the room, you know, needing to use the bathroom. But she talks about, you know, there are lots of jobs that are stressful, but, as an entrepreneur, it's, it's a, it can become a toxic combination when your, your family's livelihood is tied.

Jennifer Kok (22:28.015)

Yeah.

Kathy Rushing (22:49.25)

to the success of the business. mean, you just, you can't ignore it.

Jennifer Kok (22:50.874)

Right?

You can't, and that leads me to what I wanted to ask you about as well. This past week I was in a women in business meeting and it was interesting how somebody had brought up, know, how do you handle when you're the entrepreneur and your spouse is not, your spouse is either a stay at home dad or stay at home mom or works corporate, you know, works a job, and they just don't understand

Kathy Rushing (23:19.534)

Mm-hmm.

Jennifer Kok (23:23.32)

entrepreneurship, they just don't get what you're doing and they really don't, it doesn't feel supportive. It can feel almost like they, I hate to say vindictive or they want you to fail. It doesn't so much feel that heavy, but somebody had chimed in in this conversation and said it could be jealousy. You know, your partner could be jealous of the fact that you actually took the initiative, had the courage, were able to take the risk.

and go do it and then maybe they feel a little resentful of that because they feel they're, I don't know, stuck or whatever. it was very, it was a very powerful kind of conversation because what was eye opening for me is it's affecting more people than I realized.

You know, my husband's been my biggest cheerleader. He's never ever said, you know, you need to go get a job or anything like that. But his first question always is, you know, how much money did you make? And that's because his mindset comes from he's in corporate. He gets a regular paycheck. He gets, you know, it's very consistent. It's very predictable. It's, very nice. And I'm thankful for it. Right. Yes. Yeah. I'm very thankful for it. Where with entrepreneurship, we don't have that luxury. We have the peaks and the valleys. So any thoughts on.

Kathy Rushing (24:24.776)

Yeah. He doesn't have overhead and payroll and yeah.

Jennifer Kok (24:38.576)

How do you, if you feel like your spouse isn't on board and you're already in, you're already an entrepreneur, it's too late for the conversation, like should I do this? We're already there. And I think back to a lot of times we jump into entrepreneurship not really knowing what we're getting into or our spouse doesn't really understand what we're getting into. You know, where do you navigate that conversation? Where do you feel maybe are some thoughts on what's driving maybe that little bit of jealousy or that little bit of, I don't know, just insecurities, I guess.

Kathy Rushing (24:45.004)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Kathy Rushing (25:08.47)

Yeah, well, and probably every situation is a little bit different. So I wouldn't, I wouldn't label what the other one is feeling what I would be I would first of all, say be curious. And when they have these conversations with their spouse, does that conversation tend to end with a period or a comma? Is it a is it a conversation that is open?

Jennifer Kok (25:21.264)

Mmm.

Jennifer Kok (25:32.715)

Ooh, good.

Kathy Rushing (25:38.432)

Again, going back to the speaker listener technique, and I teach it to everyone. Because when the conversation ends with a period, like we've heard our spouse partner say something, and we don't get curious and wonder about their perspective, it's not the same as ours. Well, hello, that's marriage. Just about everything, right? It's part of what makes marriage interesting is we are not the same people.

Jennifer Kok (26:00.15)

Right.

Kathy Rushing (26:09.218)

But so it's interesting too to think in terms of men versus women. You said this was a women's group, correct? So what you were hearing from was women. And there was a study I came across a couple of years ago about the study was asking is there a difference between the way that men and women start businesses, become entrepreneurs. Men tended to start without consulting their partner.

Jennifer Kok (26:16.152)

Yes, right.

Jennifer Kok (26:30.473)

interesting, yeah.

Kathy Rushing (26:37.908)

Women tended to want their partners input, be mindful about, gosh, how is this going to impact our kids? What is this going to do for you? And I think some of that is just how we are wired as women. tend to be more of the caregivers. Again, I don't want to fully put everybody into boxes, but there's a lot that we know that just genetically.

Jennifer Kok (27:00.954)

Right.

Kathy Rushing (27:05.87)

Men and women are different. can argue that all day long, but I'm going to stand on that. We are, we are different.

Jennifer Kok (27:08.6)

Right, exactly. And that doesn't surprise me that the way they would start a business, like what you're saying, doesn't surprise me. I agree.

Kathy Rushing (27:14.808)

Yeah, right. But the other thing about women is we are not very good at asking for what we need. And so that would be the other thing I would be curious, you know, in if I were a fly on the wall in this conversation to say, how do you approach your partner to ask for support? And saying things like, you know, if they make a statement, for instance, like, I don't know, I don't I don't like that you're doing this thing.

Well, the first thing you're going to feel is defensiveness. But if you apply the speaker listener, which is basically when you're in the listener role, then you're mirroring and that's just saying back. So you have some hesitation about me being in the business. And do you see what that does? That's a comma, not a period. It opens up to say, I'm listening. Tell me more. Another great phrase I find very helpful is help me understand.

Help me understand what it is that is causing you anxiety. We had this big entrepreneur conference in Fort Collins last week that I spoke at and there was a friend of mine that I saw who came up to me because one of the presentations I did was the three, it was called Roots of Resilience, the three key relationships necessary for a well-rounded entrepreneur and I talk about the mentor.

the spouse or partner and a good friend that we need something different from all three of these. So, but right now we're talking about the spouse or partner and this woman came up to me afterwards and she said, you know, my husband has zero risk tolerance. He can't handle hearing.

the ups and downs. And so she said, I do feel kind of isolated. But she said, I've also accepted that that's where he is. That's who he is. And we connect on other levels. But when it comes to support for my business, she said, I feel kind of alone in it. But again, I think we can open that up for support. If we can have some conversations that allow for both people to fully be seen and heard.

Jennifer Kok (29:38.66)

That is very, very powerful. Like I just want to sit here and marinate on that for a little bit. No, that is really good. And you're right. We're talking about two different personalities, which earlier you said is good for a marriage. We're not looking to clone ourselves. And a lot of times that is probably what's driving it is entrepreneurs who most of us do have a high tolerance for risk and our partner might not. So there might be some fear underlying there. There's all these things. And I think what...

Kathy Rushing (29:43.147)

Mm-hmm.

Kathy Rushing (29:50.413)

right?

Kathy Rushing (29:59.928)

Mm-hmm.

Jennifer Kok (30:08.484)

Honestly, you and I could talk for hours because I always say, you know, we've got this well put together business plan, this growth plan, this growth roadmap, which is what I help people with. But there's a lot that comes down to mindset that comes down to your support system. those things that you are so important and are really are going to what is going to help an entrepreneur get to that year five and above. So I thank you for just like.

Kathy Rushing (30:20.204)

Right.

Kathy Rushing (30:35.456)

All right.

Jennifer Kok (30:37.732)

just peaking our curiosity and like really sharing some really good nuggets, but also tools to help us go a little bit deeper into this. I think, you know, communication's huge. We know that. We know that with anybody, any relationship. And I feel like we allow distractions to get in the way. You know, it's so easy to let your business become a distraction. Social, you know, our phones, our digital world and

I really hope that listeners today take a moment, go get your tools, remove the distractions for 30 minutes, and just really touch base with what's going on with whether it's your spousal partner, your business partner, or your spouse who's just your non-business partner. So yeah, thank you, Kathy. What a great, great words of wisdom.

Kathy Rushing (31:25.966)

Right? You're welcome. Well, I find it so important. And like you said, I just I'm beating this drum wherever I can because I think we hold up people like, you know, Steve Jobs. I have Apple everything. I am so grateful for his genius, brilliant mind and his ability to pull together tools that I use every day. But when he died,

I mean, his family was a mess. People were cut off and disconnected and I see it too often. I'm on LinkedIn a lot and I see it a lot of young entrepreneurs especially who are still promoting this idea that you have to give up everything basically, sacrifice everything for the sake of the business and I just, I vehemently disagree. And I think, you know, whatever

reasons you have started your own business wherever you want to end up you want to be able to celebrate it with someone at the end and so if we don't take care of and nurture that relationship along the way then it could be a very lonely sad ending when it doesn't have to be but it means paying attention having some tools and you know doing a little bit of work it's it's

Honestly, keeping a marriage together is not nearly as hard as a business, I feel like. But we do need tools and that's what I'm passionate about, helping couples or individuals have these tools and to have more of the life and love that they want.

Jennifer Kok (33:16.624)

Well, your passion is evident. It shines through and your wisdom. And I just, once again, thank you for your time today. And I will make sure I put all these links in the show notes. And also, you can also reach out to Kathy on LinkedIn as well. So thank you so much, Kathy.

Kathy Rushing (33:29.322)

Yeah. Thank you, Jennifer. was a pleasure to be here.