Episode 68: Stop Outsourcing Your Authority: Marketing, Mindset & Getting Found

What if the secret to marketing success isn't a better strategy, it's finally trusting yourself? In this episode, I sit down with Iris Goldfeder, founder of Gas Stove Creative, to talk about building a business on your own terms, showing up authentically, and getting found by the right clients. Whether you're struggling with visibility, confused by the ever-changing digital marketing landscape, or just tired of throwing spaghetti at the wall this one's for you.

Episode Outline

1. Stop Outsourcing Your Authority
   • Iris shares the mindset shift that changed everything learning to trust herself instead of leaning on partners for validation.
2. The Power of Video
   • Why unpolished, authentic video builds more trust than a perfectly scripted production — and how to just start.
3. SEO, AEO, GEO & AIO — What You Actually Need to Know
   • A plain-English breakdown of the four optimization strategies and what small business owners should focus on right now.
4. Websites That Convert
   • You have three seconds. Iris explains what your homepage must communicate immediately and how to make your site work for you.

Related Episodes & Additional Resources

• Episode 40:  Stop Marketing on Assumptions, Start Connecting with What Your Customers Actually Want
• Episode 58: The Real Reason your Marketing isn’t working 

Guest Information
Iris Goldfeder, Gas Stove Creative, Iris is the founder of GasStoveCreative, an all-in-one marketing solutions agency built for service-based businesses ready to scale with clarity and confidence. With over two decades of experience across branding, digital strategy, and business storytelling, she has a knack for helping businesses cut through the noise, clarify their message, and turn their marketing efforts into real, measurable results.

• gasstovecreative.com | LinkedIn: linked.com/in/igoldfeder
• Is your website converting traffic to leads free audit: Mention Main Street Success Stories podcast for a free strategy call with Iris. 

Meet Your Host:
Jennifer Kok is a Profit & Growth Advisor and founder of Next Wave. A serial entrepreneur with more than 25 years of experience, she helps service-based women entrepreneurs increase profitability through financial clarity, strategic decision-making, and systems that support sustainable growth.  

www.nextwavebusinesscoaching.com
Focus Growth Collective

Rate & Review on Apple Podcasts – This is the most impactful way to support the show and help other business owners find it.

Sign Up for the Newsletter:
https://www.nextwavebusinesscoaching.com/newsletter

Follow Us on Social Media:
Instagram: https://instagram.com/nextwavewithjen
Facebook: https://facebook.com/nextwavewithjen
LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/jennifer-kok-17441829
YouTube: https://youtube.com/@nextwavewithjen802

You’ve Built a Business You’re Proud Of -But It’s Time for It to Work for You. You’re still wearing all the hats, working long hours, and not paying yourself what you deserve. You know there’s more possible. More profit, more clarity, and more freedom to enjoy the life you’re building.  The Earn More Stress Less 9-Pillar Blueprint helps women entrepreneurs with families create profitable businesses that finally pay them back. 

My name is Jennifer Kok, and I’m a profit and growth advisor for service-based women entrepreneurs. I help women business owners make smarter, more strategic decisions so they can grow profitably, pay themselves consistently, and avoid burnout.

Because the truth is, business owners make decisions all day long, but the ones that really matter are often the hardest ones. Should I hire? Raise my prices? Invest in marketing? Let go of a draining client? Expand, or simplify?

Those decisions carry weight, and they can impact your time, your profit, your energy, and your long-term growth.

That’s why I created the Focused Growth Collective, a virtual mastermind for women business owners who want support making the kinds of decisions that move a business forward. Yes, we talk strategy, but we also look at the bigger picture like mental load, health, profit, and long-term sustainability.

My goal is to help women build businesses that pay them well, support their lives, and still feel worth leading 10 years from now.

Connect with me:
Website:
Facebook:
Instagram:
LinkedIn:
YouTube: 

Transcript

Jennifer Kok (00:01.388)
Welcome Iris, I am excited to talk with you today.

Iris Goldfeder (00:05.893)
Jennifer, thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here.

Jennifer Kok (00:09.208)
So Iris, you are the founder of Gas Stove Creative, which I love that name, and you are in All-in-One Marketing Solutions, but you didn't start there. So tell us a little bit about who you are, what you do, and kind of a little bit of your journey to being All-in-One Marketing Solutions.

Iris Goldfeder (00:29.233)
So I started this originally out of necessity because I lost my job. This was like 11 years ago. I didn't want to collect unemployment. I'm not one of those people that could just sit home and look for a job. It would have driven me insane. And one of my former clients said, hey, let's start marketing it.

or a website company. So I was like, okay. So we talked and we weighed the pros and cons and there were more pros than cons. I was like, sure, let's do it. And it went great for about five years and then it didn't. And when it didn't, it was one of those things that, me, I could see those final breaths. It was just like, okay, it's time. So.

that iteration ended. And then I kind of put this on hold for a few years to go into a partnership with a friend. And that ended. And when that ended, you know, this started and what was weird was, I think the catalyst was when COVID hit, I got COVID. And

Three months after I got COVID, I almost died from it. But they didn't tell me that because they were supposed to keep my blood pressure down and everything. So they didn't want me freaked out and everything. And then when they told me, oh yeah, by the way, everything is good. Everything is chronic. You're going to be okay. And I said, what do you mean I'm going to be okay? And they were like, well, we didn't want to let you know, but if you didn't come when you came, you probably wouldn't have made it to the next day.

Jennifer Kok (02:00.255)
wow.

Jennifer Kok (02:26.926)
wow.

Iris Goldfeder (02:27.911)
So rather than, you're starting to get to know me, things don't happen the way they normally do, right? Normally you find out that you almost died and all of a sudden you have this like giant revelation, right? Well, I didn't find out until way after. And then I was like, I wanna do all the things, but I wanna do all the things right. So I called up Kofi, we started the podcast that you were just on.

Jennifer Kok (02:56.301)
Yeah.

Iris Goldfeder (02:56.531)
And that was the first leg of it. And then the second leg was, okay, what do I do with this business? Like I have this really great business. then fate kind of stepped in as it always does, or the universe. And I started getting these people that had these different needs. And I have no employees, I work with all contractors. So it...

became like this game of Tetris. And then it started to really come clear to me that there really wasn't anything in the market where there were all of these contractors that these people wanted to hire, but they're not talking to each other. So why don't I get all of the people that I know are the best of the best and have them as my contractors to get all the stuff done. And that's what we've done. And each year,

You know, we're growing each year. This year we're starting to do packages because it's just getting so kind of, you crazy. But the convenience is that instead of somebody working with like 20 different people that aren't talking to each other, so there's this project and there's all these little pieces to it, but nobody, you know, your right hand doesn't know what your left hand is doing. With us, you don't have to worry about it.

Jennifer Kok (04:22.623)
And boy, I've been on the receiving end of having a lot of different contractors and it, there's a lot of gaps when you try to manage it as the owner and you think you're saving yourself money and you're really not because first of all, you don't know the lingo. You don't know the language.

The digital marketing landscape is changing at such a rapid rate that as an entrepreneur, you cannot be so well-versed in every aspect of it. That's why we have people like you. And yes, it can be exhausting just trying to manage this pool of different contractors. And like you said, they're not talking to each other. So there's going to be gaps that happen. And it's interesting hearing your journey, because I had somebody ask me once, what's your favorite part of your podcast?

Iris Goldfeder (04:49.095)
Yeah.

Jennifer Kok (05:07.499)
And what is the common theme you see when you interview all these different entrepreneurs? And the common theme I see is not one entrepreneur I have talked to had this plan. We all have a plan that went from A, B, C, D, E, F, G, this nice linear path to success. Every single person has pivoted, changed, dropped a business partner, added a business partner.

started out doing this, now is doing that. And I just love that about entrepreneurship because that just shows the core of who we are. We're adaptable people, we're curious people. And like you said, necessity is the mother of all invention, right? So you are at a place where I'm going to do something, but that's interesting because that something is now very different than where you are today, just because you had to adapt and change as the market changed and as your life changed.

Iris Goldfeder (06:00.177)
Yeah. And what was, so something hit me just last night. It was so funny. You know how you get these epiphanies and you're like, my God. So I was sitting here and I was looking at the through line, like what, you know, why has this iteration been so successful and the others weren't? And I realized it's because I'm not leaning on anybody else.

Jennifer Kok (06:07.467)
Yeah, that was it.

Iris Goldfeder (06:24.859)
Like I'm going to get teary, right? Because the first one, felt like I needed a partner. And the second one, I needed a partner. Not having a partner has shown me that, you know, it's almost like put your big girl pants on and do the thing. And not only have I put my big girl pants on and done the thing, I'm kicking ass at the thing, right?

Jennifer Kok (06:26.594)
Yeah.

Jennifer Kok (06:48.203)
Yeah.

Iris Goldfeder (06:48.935)
And it and it was just this like moment last night and I looked at my wife and I was like That that was it That was it. I didn't believe in myself enough to think that I could do it alone So I felt that I needed that outside Help um, and I don't anymore and that was a hell of a revelation last night I was just like whoa, and we always say three things that we're grateful for before we go to bed

like right before we go to bed. And I said I'm really grateful that I had those experiences, right? And that now I'm able to realize that I don't need that. So it was huge.

Jennifer Kok (07:19.863)
Mm-hmm.

Jennifer Kok (07:26.263)
Sure.

Jennifer Kok (07:32.234)
And that is huge, and I love that for you because mindset is probably a bigger piece of the game than having a really good business strategy. And belief is such a core. And we don't have bosses and people, co-workers that are kind of helping us along and taking us along. We are the ones that have to find it deep within us. And like we just said, nothing's linear. Success doesn't happen just automatically.

You have to believe in yourself and that is such a cool revelation because look where it's brought you today. And you talk about how you're kicking ass and I love that. And you're seeing some success and you had said once that part of it, your success came from stop outsourcing your authority. And it sounds like that was probably a partner. You were, you know, outsourcing your authority to a business partner. And you know, what else do you mean by that? Like where, where does that show up for you?

Iris Goldfeder (08:34.437)
I think that...

You know...

At the end of the day, we have to believe in ourselves, right? We have to believe in, you know, where we are for a reason. We got here for a reason, right? We got here through our tenacity, blood, sweat, tears, whatever you want to call it. And when you outsource that, when you give that...

I don't want to say the credit because that's not the right word, but when you give that authority to somebody else and don't own it as your own, you're really taking away from your own experience and your voice basically. And so for me, it was again like that aha moment last night, but always turning to others, like looking to them for authority rather than looking to myself because I

I've had the answers all along.

Jennifer Kok (09:39.416)
You know, I think that's really challenging, especially I see this a lot with my clients who mostly are women entrepreneurs. And I'm not sure where this comes from. And I think it could be a result of the world we live in, you know, with the social media. We always get to see everybody's highlight reel. Very few people show, my gosh, I'm here in the trenches showing up every day doing the same thing. And for some reason,

We struggle with the word expert or the authority because I don't want to come across as being bossy or I don't want to come across as being this, she thinks she's all that.

Iris Goldfeder (10:07.399)
Mm-hmm.

Iris Goldfeder (10:16.451)
But we need to, right? Because guys have no problem walking in, know, flaunting their feathers and like, you know, I'm the shit basically, right? And we don't, we're, you know, we're kind of like...

Jennifer Kok (10:22.464)
Yeah.

Iris Goldfeder (10:28.167)
Okay, it was like, I'll give you a perfect example. We have a, I run a not for profit and my partner who's my co founder in it, you know, she was working on the program today, last night or whatever, she's been working on the program. And I said, you know, you did a really kick ass job, you know, great job. And rather than her saying, hey, you know, thanks. She said, well, you know, all I did was take last year's and kind of copy it. And I said, take the win.

Jennifer Kok (10:56.759)
Yeah.

Iris Goldfeder (10:57.031)
Take the win, thank you Iris, I appreciate you saying it. And then she puts up this like emoji, and if you met this woman, you'd be like, really? You know what I mean? And so I think that society raises us, our parents raise us because we're women. Don't be too loud, don't be too upfront. If you need help, there's a big strong man that's gonna help you. And.

Jennifer Kok (11:00.354)
Yeah.

Iris Goldfeder (11:24.037)
I'm not going to curse on here because I don't know if I can or not, but you know what I want to say, right? It's like, you know, F that no, that's no, because we've been taught that that's been ingrained in us. Schuyler agrees. And I kind of feel like, as we get, as we grow, as we evolve, right, we start realizing that no, you know what? You didn't bust your ass to get me here. I did. You didn't go through the.

Jennifer Kok (11:50.615)
Yeah.

Iris Goldfeder (11:52.273)
trial and error and heartache and all of the nights where was like, my God, am I gonna have to get a job? Where your wife is looking at you going, you have a couple of months, if you don't get this right, you gotta get a job. And it's like, so when we've gone through that, I think we get the wherewithal to be able to go, you know what? I am strong, I am badass, I am gonna own it.

Jennifer Kok (12:04.781)
True, right.

Iris Goldfeder (12:21.093)
This is just the beginning, right? It's like, you know, whatever's next is gonna be, you know, even bigger and better than this. And I think that the sooner that we allow ourselves to accept that, the sooner, you know, we're rocking because, you know, and that goes with outsourcing your authority, right? It's not allowing your strength to shine through and, your

you know, yeah, your badassness, I guess.

Jennifer Kok (12:55.413)
And you know, I see it show up for business owners in a lot of different ways. You know, you see over explaining, like you just said, even we have a hard time just saying thank you. I mean, I've seen that with women. my gosh, what a cute blouse you have on today. you know, I just got it at the, at the discount rack and you we, we, yeah. Right. Yeah. Exactly. So if you take nothing away from today, just go out there and say, thank you. And.

Iris Goldfeder (13:12.039)
you like it? CJ Maxx, $3.99. I don't care about that. Just thank you. I'm glad you like my shirt, right?

Say thank you.

Jennifer Kok (13:24.085)
And we also struggle looking for others to validate us. And then, you know, that shows up in the way we price ourselves, especially for service-based businesses. So how do we, you you kind of overcame this just being in the trenches, one failure led to a success. Any tips for people on how to start to overcome this besides just own it? You know, I love how you have three gratitudes a night. I always say to my clients, write down a win every day.

Iris Goldfeder (13:31.002)
yes, yep.

Jennifer Kok (13:49.881)
We're always so focused on what's next and what we didn't do or what we didn't get to. You know, do we ever reflect back and look at how far we've actually come?

Iris Goldfeder (14:00.135)
And that goes to those three gratitudes, right? Cause it's like, maybe you had the worst day ever. you, anything that could possibly have gone wrong, went wrong. But guess what? There are three, there are at least three things in there that you can find to be grateful for. And that's why we do it because, you know, it's really easy to be an Eeyore, right? Especially in today's world.

Jennifer Kok (14:23.546)
yeah, especially in today's world. You just turn on the TV and you can be an Eeyore. Yeah. Right. Yeah.

Iris Goldfeder (14:27.175)
God, I can't even turn the TV on anymore. can't even, you know, it's just like, anyway, so that's a whole nother podcast. But, me. But I just kind of feel like, you know, when you feel like you're in that mock.

Jennifer Kok (14:34.476)
Yeah, we won't go there.

Iris Goldfeder (14:53.607)
kind of reach down and look at what got you as far as you are, because we all start somewhere. And I guarantee you where you are today is, know, multitudes further than when you started. Because it's really easy to look at, man, my pipeline's not full, or you know, this isn't happening, or this isn't happening.

Jennifer Kok (15:20.462)
or compare yourself to others that seem to have it all going on. Yeah, yep.

Iris Goldfeder (15:23.043)
that's like, that's a death knell. As soon as you start comparing yourself to other businesses, just stop because you are never going to be them. You're never going to be them. You are you. And you don't want to be them. No, like not at all. I mean, I remember I used to look at people and be like, man, they're really successful. I wish I could do that. And then I would meet them.

Jennifer Kok (15:28.556)
Yeah.

Jennifer Kok (15:33.804)
And you don't want to be them. And you don't want. Yeah.

Iris Goldfeder (15:49.979)
And it's like, never meet your heroes, right? Because then you know all the crap that goes on behind the scenes and it's like, I don't wanna be you. I'm good, I'm good. I'm good right where I am. I'll keep my crap. You keep your crap because whoa, that's, you And it happened like quite a bit in the past couple of years for me. Not that I was like wishing I was them, but I'm like, man, they really have their act together. I really wanna have a conversation with them and get to know them. And I remember this one woman, I'm clearly not gonna mention her name, but she's...

Jennifer Kok (15:56.846)
Okay.

Jennifer Kok (16:02.454)
Yeah.

Iris Goldfeder (16:20.037)
very well known and all this other stuff. you know, a lot of people look up to her and we had a conversation for some reason people just love telling me their life story. Well, she just like let loose and I was like, whoa, I'm good. I'm good. I'm actually doing a lot better than I thought. you know, so don't look to other people.

Jennifer Kok (16:35.405)
Yeah.

Jennifer Kok (16:39.602)
Exactly. I mean, it's important to have mentors. It's important to have people in your life that can help you with these things. yeah, comparison. And the other thing I think that really gets in the way is fear of other people's opinions. Like, just stop. Yeah, we have to stop.

Iris Goldfeder (16:51.503)
Yeah, you can't. There's a saying, right? What other people think of you is none of your business.

Jennifer Kok (16:57.164)
Yeah, great saying. Great saying. I love that.

Iris Goldfeder (16:58.917)
Right? It's because it's not like, you know, first off, I remember a while ago, there was this one person and I was like, my God, every time she looks at me, she just probably thinks she hates my guts and whatever. And I remember, you know, we were at a networking event and I was like, screw it, I'm gonna go over and talk to her. And we started talking and I said, so how come every time you look at me, you have this like,

almost like this disdain and she's like, no, she was like, not at all, know, like not even a little, said, she goes, you must be looking at me like every time I'm like pondering something. And so, you know, part of me was like, okay, maybe that's true, but for it to be every time, you know, whatever. And now we're like really good friends and we joke about it. But it was just one of those things where I was like, my God, she hates me. Like she absolutely can't stand me and.

had nothing to do with anything other than her, you know, pondering. I think we spend, and I think that's what's wrong with the world. I will throw that out there. Everybody worries about everybody else's crap. Worry about your own. Worry about getting your own business going. Worry about, you know, don't look at what Jane Doe is doing or John Doe is doing. Don't look at that because all that's gonna do is distract you and it's gonna frustrate you because you are never going to be them.

Jennifer Kok (18:03.79)
Yeah.

Jennifer Kok (18:11.981)
right?

Iris Goldfeder (18:26.821)
And your business is never going to look like their business because it's not their business, it's your business. So you need to really, you know, work on what you're doing and focus on what you're doing. you know, this year I know I already have, you know, the steps in place to go out and kick ass. Like we're laying the foundation for this to be probably our best year ever. Not probably, this will be our best year ever thus far. And it's not...

not by design, it's by design. It's not by love, yeah.

Jennifer Kok (18:58.338)
Right, it's not by luck, it is by design. Yes. All right, so let's tap into your expertise because you are a all-in-one, one-stop shop when it comes to marketing. And visibility for small business owners is tough. Small business owners, first of all, as you know, when they're in the growth, they're in the couple hundred thousand a year and they're just trying to grow. They're wearing all the hats still, they're starting to delegate a little bit here and there, but a lot of it's still falling on their lap.

Iris Goldfeder (19:05.487)
Okay.

Jennifer Kok (19:27.834)
And they get so overwhelmed with posting email, what to say, when to say it. And then at the end of the day, they say to me things like, I'm still not getting people into my world. I'm still not being found. What do you think is missing in a lot? Like lot of the clients that come to you who want help with their marketing, what do you see as missing a lot in that puzzle?

Iris Goldfeder (19:56.167)
A few things. I think that number one, they're not hanging out in the right spaces. They're not hanging out where their clients are. They're not hanging out where their clients' clients are. And I did a video on this on LinkedIn, I think like last month. And it was one of those, I get all these like download, know, aha moments, right? It's like, oh. And I remember it was like a couple of years ago, I was working with one of my clients and...

He's like, I'm not being seen. And I'm like, because you're not where you need to be. You know, you do X for a living. So let's say you're a coach. You should be on LinkedIn. You can also be on Instagram. You can do LinkedIn, Facebook and Instagram, but really mainly you need to be on LinkedIn, right? Because that's where your clients are hanging out. They could be hanging out on Instagram, but most likely they're on LinkedIn.

You know, if you're a service based business, let's say that you're, you know, a pest control company or a roofer or something, right. You want to be on Facebook. You want to be on Instagram. You also want to be on next door. Nobody thinks about next door. Nobody thinks about next door and next door is great because that's where everybody's looking for people to fix stuff. Right. so it's like, you need to be where your clients are, but then also where your clients clients are.

Jennifer Kok (21:01.12)
right.

Iris Goldfeder (21:17.787)
because that's where your clients are. Right? It was one of those things that I was explaining it in the video. I'm like, okay, this is going to be a little confusing, but it's true because your clients' clients are hanging out in a certain place. Right? And that's where your clients should be. That's where you should be. Because not only are you going to find your clients, but you're going to... So, okay, a roofer, know, somebody is on Instagram, right? And...

Jennifer Kok (21:18.36)
That's interesting.

Jennifer Kok (21:34.456)
So give us an example.

Like a roofer, for instance.

Iris Goldfeder (21:47.003)
they need a roof or they're on Pinterest and they're looking for a roofing ideas or they're on next door and they're looking for a roofer or they're on Facebook, right? And they're looking for a roofer. That's the client's client. That's not my client. That's my client's client, right? So now my client knows that, okay, this is where they need to be. Now for the client's client,

So we'll say a, we'll go back to like a roofer, right? Pinterest, they're looking for ideas on, you know, how do I do this? Or, you know, my husband's a DIYer and he's trying to fix the hole in the roof. What do we do? And then the roofer can be at Pinterest and going, you don't want to DIY it, right? This is, can have, so there's like, it's like, what was it? Six degrees of separation with Kevin Bacon, right? So that's basically what it is.

Jennifer Kok (22:22.127)
colors and shingles.

Jennifer Kok (22:34.19)
Yeah.

Jennifer Kok (22:41.089)
Yeah.

Iris Goldfeder (22:43.915)
so, you know, for me, I always hang out on Facebook, LinkedIn, and Instagram, because that's where all my clients are. All of them, whether they're coaches, whether they're businesses, you know, and then their clients are on Nextdoor. So I'll go on Nextdoor to see what new companies, you know, come up. So that's the, if that gives it like that, if that explains well.

Jennifer Kok (23:01.219)
Yeah. OK, that's a, yeah, that's great. So that's a big mess is that we are not hanging out where our clients are. You it's interesting you bring up, we're using the trades right now as our example. And I had a client who owns a painting business and she said, you know, everyone thinks the trades are real masculine. You know, the plumber, the HVAC, but who's the person who's making the phone call and who's the person who's signing the check? It's the woman of the house.

Iris Goldfeder (23:27.463)
It's the woman.

Jennifer Kok (23:28.673)
And so a lot of these companies are marketing to the men all these masculine type, you know, topics where really at the end of the day, it's the woman who most of the time is handling those decisions. So I thought that was kind of interesting. All right, so what else are you seeing besides not hanging out in the right room is kind of a miss to be found.

Iris Goldfeder (23:39.739)
Yeah. Yeah.

Iris Goldfeder (23:48.039)
I don't think that they're visible enough. I'm a huge proponent of video. So if you're a coach, if you are a, you know, B2B company, I really...

really believe deeply in video because this is it. You put a video on LinkedIn, you can't hide, right? You can't, you know, I put these videos out and I had a couple of people make comments because I don't, it's like I'm gonna be doing batch videos today when we get done, right? have Kofi and I booked for like two something hours. And all that I do is I pick the topics that I'm gonna talk about.

Jennifer Kok (24:16.42)
Yeah.

Iris Goldfeder (24:38.319)
And I talk about them and I don't have anything scripted. don't have anything pre-written. And a lot of people are like, well, you should really do that because it looks unpolished. then, but that's not me. I'm not going to go on there and be an infomercial. That's not what I'm here for. Right. I'm here to, you know, give people advice, talk to people about stuff, impart whatever knowledge that I can, you know, on people and also sell stuff. But I don't.

know, sales isn't my main focus because as we discussed, I'm not a transactional business. Like for me, it's not transactional. It's all about relationship. And that's it. So if you want to run a relationship based business, this is what you need. You need video. You need people to be able to, cause you can post all day long. They're not really going to get to know you.

Jennifer Kok (25:27.673)
And I think, especially in today's world, we hear this all the time, that we are in a trust deficit. And the only way people are going to get to know you is like what we've talked about before is relational and seeing your face. And I prefer to watch somebody's video that's just showing me their expertise, showing me who they are versus a very scripted, cutesy, polished video. For one, most of us don't have a budget to hire a video editor to create those cute little.

Iris Goldfeder (25:36.241)
huge.

Jennifer Kok (25:57.71)
videos and so I think we look for those excuses to stop us from showing up. So what I love what I'm hearing from you is just go out there and do a video and just talk about one thing. Answer one question you get on a regular basis.

Iris Goldfeder (26:09.327)
Yeah. Just be you. You know, I think at the end of the day, and you said, you know, there is a huge trust deficit, right? But to me, the biggest compliment is when I meet somebody in person and they're like, my God, you're just like you are in the video. I'm like, well, yeah, because that's who I am. know, it's like that's who I am. you know, and I have met people that I've seen on video and I'm like, okay, you're...

you. And it's so, and you can tell, like, I'll be watching people's videos and I'm like, all right, that's whatever or, okay, this is somebody that I want to learn more, I want to, you know, know more. And I think it's easy to spot. I mean, for me it is, but I make a living doing that.

Jennifer Kok (26:40.045)
Yeah.

Jennifer Kok (26:54.265)
Yeah.

Jennifer Kok (27:00.353)
Right. And your role is to help your clients be authentic and show up authentically. So, okay, let's talk about a topic that is big. It's technical. I don't want to get in the weeds of the technical, but I feel like as we evolve in the digital world, we really need to understand this as business owners. And that is the old SEO, AEO, GEO, EIEIO, right? I'm hearing this more and more and maybe...

Iris Goldfeder (27:05.767)
100%.

Iris Goldfeder (27:17.223)
Thank

Iris Goldfeder (27:26.875)
Yes.

Jennifer Kok (27:29.517)
This is someone just trying to sell me into SEO services. But I feel like I'm hearing this coming up a lot. But what I'm hearing is the shift of AEO, which is the artificial intelligence. But tell us very simply, I guess, what are the differences of all of these? And what do we need? And why do we need them?

Iris Goldfeder (27:33.063)
Mm.

Iris Goldfeder (27:51.441)
So SEO has changed, right? SEO was really based more on keywords. So that would help you rank. AEO is...

Sorry, my child wants to. Okay, cool. Then you're going to hear them because I think Amazon was here or something. no, Piper just saw it here. Okay. Anyway. I mean, it's, it's, yeah. And now, I'm going to close the door a bit, but okay. so SEO is rank, right? It's like keywords.

Jennifer Kok (28:13.07)
That's okay, we're dog lovers over here, so I love hearing a dog in the background. I'm good with it.

Jennifer Kok (28:25.292)
yeah, well that's deserving of barking then for the dog to see a deer. That's pretty fun. Yeah.

Iris Goldfeder (28:37.965)
What keywords? So it would be like SEO agency, Lafayette, Indiana, right? That's a keyword. AEO is like, you know, be the answer. So it's answer engine optimization. Instead of search engine optimization, it's answer engine optimization.

Jennifer Kok (28:56.592)
Okay, I'm so glad you clarified that because I thought it was about artificial intelligence optimization. so there is one of those too.

Iris Goldfeder (29:00.943)
No, that's AIO. So there's SEO, GEO, AEO and AIO. And then I joked on my video, it's going to be EIEIO. Yeah, but that's how we're done, right? Because it's just like crazy. So SEO is search engine optimization. AEO is answer engine optimization, meaning that you should already have the... this is going to get...

Jennifer Kok (29:09.591)
Right, right.

Iris Goldfeder (29:29.649)
So it's, you basically have to have the answer in the copy on your website already that somebody's looking for. And if that's getting annoying, let me know and I'm just, can just run real quick and let them outside if you're okay. Do you want me to, do you wanna? Okay. And then AIO is how you get recommended by,

Jennifer Kok (29:38.596)
Okay.

Jennifer Kok (29:47.694)
No, we're good, we're fine.

Iris Goldfeder (29:57.063)
chat and Gemini and all the different AI engines, right? So that's AIO and GEO is, it's generative engine optimization. So it's how do you generate the narrative that's going to help you show up? So it's really, and really the order that it was, was SEO, GEO, AIO, AEO.

And it's still evolving. And it's like every week it's something new. What worked in November, December doesn't work now, which is crazy. And it's not even algorithms anymore because now it's, people are changing the narrative, the way people search.

Jennifer Kok (30:30.192)
Okay.

Iris Goldfeder (30:53.351)
It used to be like I said, know, SEO agency, Lafayette, Indiana. Then it was, can you help me find the best SEO agency in Lafayette, Indiana? And then it went to help me find the best SEO agency in Lafayette, Indiana that gets me results, that gets the best results, right? And then it's like, and then the AEO piece would be, you know, how do I, how do I,

Jennifer Kok (31:11.939)
Okay.

Iris Goldfeder (31:23.597)
utilize.

how do I utilize my website to get me found in these searches, right? And that could be the question. And then the answer on the website could be something like, okay, in order for you to get found on Google and the other search engines, you need to blah, blah. And so the answer is already there.

And so you come up in the snippets and so it's all, know, and that's, GEO is part of, you know, coming up in the snippets to AI. It's all part of, you know, you put something in and instead of just coming up on the map or the blue links, you come up on the snippets. And that's where the money is now. And then also, you know, if you're in chat or Gemini or Claude or any of the, you know, AI programs.

Jennifer Kok (32:09.305)
Okay.

Iris Goldfeder (32:24.015)
and you type something in there, right? You're looking for, I know I'm working on this, but I'm thinking about, you a really great burger by where I am, you know, and I'm in Lafayette, Indiana. Can you tell me where it is? And bam, it'll, you know, it shows up. So it's not just search engines anymore. It's everything. It's like all inclusive. And it's gonna be who knows what in, you know, the next couple of years.

Jennifer Kok (32:47.866)
So that's pretty complex and it sounds like to the average small business owner who is maybe a solo just has one or two contractors on their team, expensive. You we don't have the budgets to be pouring into all of this. So what is kind of your recommendation to a small business owner? It used to be blogging, right? It used to be make sure you blog once a month.

Iris Goldfeder (32:50.087)
It wasn't that.

Iris Goldfeder (33:09.895)
Blogging is so good because that's where they get everything from now, right? yep, blogging, 100 % key. And try to answer as many questions as you can in your copy and have an FAQ section, for sure.

Jennifer Kok (33:14.02)
So blogging is still key.

Jennifer Kok (33:18.509)
Okay.

Okay.

Jennifer Kok (33:26.532)
There you go. So those are some really simple ways that we could implement this at least to help at least focus on this a little bit. No, it's not cheap. And like you said, it's constantly changing.

Iris Goldfeder (33:32.677)
Yeah, because it's not cheap. It's not cheap.

constantly and and I think one of things that Keep us at the forefront. Thank Thank you is you know We just stay on top of it all the time. We're constantly at okay what like we used to meet, quarterly my SEO team and I now we meet weekly

Jennifer Kok (33:58.354)
Wow, that just shows you.

Iris Goldfeder (33:59.175)
Yeah, yeah, and we're also slacking throughout the week if something else changed. So it's just constant communication back and forth, learning what's changed. And I think the biggest thing is you need to, phew.

Iris Goldfeder (34:25.265)
I don't want to use this to sell. mean, you need to have a website that converts. A lot of people just have websites that are brochure sites. You need something that's actually going to do work for you. So whether you build that yourself, whether you, you know, cause there are a lot of DIYers out there and DIY works for a while, right? I mean, it does work for a while. and where for the person that when they hit the end of their DIY, they're like, my God, I can't DIY anymore. That's when they call us because they're like, I can't anymore. And it's, and they're really frustrated at that point.

Jennifer Kok (34:39.131)
Sure. Yep.

Jennifer Kok (34:49.872)
Right.

Jennifer Kok (34:55.505)
do you know, like what's, I this is too broad of a question, but how do you know when your website isn't converting for you anymore? Is it like are there certain metrics that you should be looking at or does it depend on, like for me, let's use me as an example. I'm a consultant, so people click on the book of discovery call. If I'm not getting those on a regular basis or that starts to dry up, is that a sign that my website's not really converting? Okay.

Iris Goldfeder (35:20.421)
Yes, that and you're not driving people to your website.

Jennifer Kok (35:26.477)
Okay, so driving people to your website is really the key.

Iris Goldfeder (35:27.687)
So talking about it in your social, because, having a site that converts has SEO built into it so that when you are ready and you do have the money, you can pull the trigger and it's not like reinventing the wheel, it's already built in. So it makes it easier. And.

you know, having a site that flows really nicely. think, I think what a lot of people do, and I'm working with somebody now who she just kind of like threw a whole bunch of stuff together and she's like, I keep throwing spaghetti at the wall to see what's going to stick. She's like, I'm down to cook. Just, you know, just redo it. So we're redoing her site. and, but it has to be flow and it has to make sense. And not just for

Jennifer Kok (36:09.347)
Right, right.

Iris Goldfeder (36:22.415)
your reader, yes, 100 % for the user, the user experience must be, you know, really well received. So they need to be able to go to your site the second they get like the minute, as soon as your site pops up and they see that hero image within three seconds, you have to tell them how you solve their problem, period. And if you can't do it under three seconds, figure out how because there, we have zero,

Patience anymore, so they're on to the next site the can

Jennifer Kok (36:55.589)
You know, I remember reading a statistic once that it was seven seconds, and I think that was just in 2024. So it's already gone down more than half, three seconds. So you've got to solve their problem in three seconds with your message.

Iris Goldfeder (37:02.631)
Three seconds.

Iris Goldfeder (37:07.899)
Yeah, yeah, show them how, right? And then once they're like, okay, so they solved my problem. Now they wanna go down further, right? So then it has to make sense. So everything needs to be able, it's like connect the dots. This goes here, this goes here, this goes here. So it's flow. It's, you know, how...

Okay. You, you, you can solve my problem. Um, how do you solve my problem? What do you do to problem to solve my problem? So you're last. Like what you do is last. I had a client tell me once, you know, I don't care how you make the sausage, just make the damn sausage. Right. I don't care what's in it. So how you do it, they don't care. They just want to know that you can do it. So, so you want to do that. And then also.

Jennifer Kok (37:56.739)
Right.

Jennifer Kok (38:03.153)
that you can.

Iris Goldfeder (38:06.413)
Google needs to be able to read your website like a book. So if it was like chapter one, chapter two, again, it all has to have flow and make sense.

Yeah, and I think that's all I'm gonna give away to start.

Jennifer Kok (38:25.329)
Well, that's great stuff. And I really appreciate you kind of helping us understand it because our time is limited, our resources are limited. And I know that businesses spend a lot of time on marketing and they're not getting the results that they want. So last question for you, where does the name gas stove creative come from?

Iris Goldfeder (38:47.499)
So, funnily, my first partner that we talked about, his last name began with an S, my last name begins with a G, and my wife's last name begins with a C, and I'm really glad we didn't take each other's name now that we're just gonna throw that out there. So I knew the C was gonna be creative, like I knew for a fact, you but it was like, what do we do with the G and S?

or you know, and we were going back and forth and back and forth and it was definitely gonna be G and S, because he goes, well, we could do SG something. And I'm like, no. You know, that was like, no, this is, you mine. So, so then we just started going back and forth for the whole day and sending some crazy names to our friends. And then like literally 11 o'clock at night, I was like, gas stove creative, now we're cooking.

And that did it. Now, the Now We're Cooking, you know, didn't stick, but the rest did. And I used to be a chef. so it had, yeah, and that's why the cookbook and, you know, everything is, and if you notice it, like, I'm very anal about being brand consistent with myself as well as my clients. Like, I'm grabbing my laptop thing now because it's like one of those things that give me a tick in my neck.

Jennifer Kok (39:35.366)
have it.

Jennifer Kok (39:43.429)
so it had a personal tie as well.

Iris Goldfeder (40:01.903)
If you're doing one thing and something else that you're doing under the same brand doesn't match or connect. So we came up with the cookbook. when I went to Kofi and I was like, okay, I'm ready to do the podcast now before I reconfigured what gas stove was going to be like, what do we call the podcast? And we sat here for like three hours, seriously going, I don't know. And then finally we were like, you duh, the cookbook. And it was like, duh. So, it was just like one of those.

Jennifer Kok (40:28.326)
Right.

Iris Goldfeder (40:31.783)
So yeah, so that's how.

Jennifer Kok (40:35.217)
I love it. Well, Iris, you are a wealth of information, and I'm going to encourage listeners to reach out to you, because there does come a point where the DIY just doesn't work anymore, and we need to bring in the experts, in this evolving so fast, how the digital marketing landscape keeps changing. What is the best way to get a hold of you?

Iris Goldfeder (40:55.481)
Okay, so our website, course, gasstovecreative.com. There's a contact form on there. I'm also on LinkedIn. Gosh, I'm on LinkedIn, I'm on Instagram, I'm on Facebook, but mainly LinkedIn. And really, if you wanna get to know me, go to LinkedIn and follow me on LinkedIn because you'll see my videos, you'll see snips of the podcast. Once in a while, I'll wax nostalgic and I'll do like a personal.

you know, hey, you here's a little bit about me kind of thing. But I think that's really the best way to, I would say LinkedIn, because then you'll, can kind of get to know who I am. Because again, for me, it's all relationship based.

Jennifer Kok (41:39.769)
I really have appreciated getting to know you. I'm glad our paths crossed. I really have such respect for your work. And I am excited too that you said 2026 is gonna be your best year yet. And I wish you all the best and thank you for sharing your knowledge with us today.

Iris Goldfeder (41:43.665)
Thank you.

Iris Goldfeder (41:56.721)
Well, thank you for having me and thank your audience too. And the kids thank you too, so.

Jennifer Kok (42:02.533)
Hey, I love hearing dogs in the background, no problem.