The Leadership Drop Podcast
This is a podcast for Pastors, leaders, and anyone who wants to grow to be all that God has called them to be.
The Leadership Drop Podcast
From Vision to Victory: Navigating Leadership with Faith and Practical Wisdom
Transform your leadership from dreamer to doer with the practical wisdom of Pastor Jackie from Cross Church in our latest Leadership Drop podcast. As your guide, I'm set to steer you through the trenches of implementation, sharing how our church's explosive growth stems from not just divine blessing but also our knack for turning visionary ideas into tangible results. We dissect the anatomy of action, drawing lessons from the decisive moves of Civil War armies, and wrap up with a powerful message on the steadfastness of faith, inspired by Hebrews 10:39. It's a heartfelt call to lead with conviction, never retreating from the mission entrusted to us.
This episode also honors the profound impact of Henry Blackaby's "Experiencing God" on my ministry, revealing how joining God in His active work can reshape our leadership landscape. Recounting my own humbling journey—from preaching in Blackaby's presence to nurturing a thriving congregation in Arizona—I reveal the unexpected paths to where God's presence beckons. The discussion extends to the essential three C's of team-building: competency, chemistry, and character. By the end, you'll grasp the symbolic power of the Ark of the Covenant as more than a biblical artifact but as a beacon for modern leaders pursuing a vision that is both grounded and guided by the divine.
Welcome to the Leadership Drop podcast. In each episode, pastor Jackie, along with selected guests from time to time, aimed to drop some leadership insights that are designed to help you thrive, whether you're leading a church, a business, a team, a family or simply yourself. So lean in, listen, laugh and learn as we drop some leadership truth, and watch out for that leadership mic drop moment. Let's go.
Speaker 2:Hey, welcome to this month's edition of the Leadership Drop podcast. I'm Pastor Jackie here at Cross Church, and we put these little thoughts together to hopefully help you become a better leader. Today, the topic is implementation. Sounds exciting, doesn't it? Oh, let's go, let's implement. But I think those that implement well put themselves at a great advantage in whatever marketplace they live in. A lot of people can dream big dreams, but not everyone can implement the thing.
Speaker 2:Over the years, here at Cross Church, if we have one thing that would, I think, would be our secret sauce outside of, obviously, the work of the Holy Spirit growing as church, I would say one thing on a worldly human level that would be our secret sauce is that we have had the ability to implement things really well. We're not the most creative group, but we're able to take an idea and get it from idea stage to implementation stage faster than most, and so, instead of sitting around and just thinking about stuff, sitting around and daydreaming about stuff, we want to implement stuff, and so I want to help you, as a leader, be a better implementer of the great ideas that you already have and that God's already given you. But here's a key thought that I want to lay on your heart early on that implementation is a beast. It is not for the work brittle, it is not for the faint of heart. It is for those that are willing to roll up their sleeves and go to work and do the thing. And so I want to challenge you Lean in to being a better implementer, not just a better dreamer. A lot of bosses, a lot of leaders come in and they have all of these fairly fancy ideas and then they don't have any paths from idea to implementation and it leaves over time. That will leave those in your organization feeling frustrated. Here's a thought also Dreaming without doing is just daydreaming. Dreaming without doing is just daydreaming, and nobody ever wants to be known in the end. Well, he was a great or she was a great daydreamer. They just walked around with her head in the clouds, but they never really did anything. And so in this month's podcast, we're going to challenge you on how to implement your great ideas a little better. Let me set it up with something I've been reading right now.
Speaker 2:I've been reading through this book, the Three Cornered War. I like histories from time to time and also like histories that kind of inform current life, and the Three Cornered War book is a book about the Confederate Army and the Union Army during the Civil War and the American Indians and how it impacted the American West. Where I live, where I live in the late 1860s, when the Civil War was going on, was not Arizona, it wasn't a state yet when state 48, we hadn't come into existence yet. It was what was known as New Mexico Territory. So everything between Texas and California back in the day during the Civil War was New Mexico Territory and there was some question of whether or not that would be ruled by the Confederate Army and the Confederacy or whether it would be ruled by the Union Army and the Union. And so this book is the story of some Confederate soldiers coming up out of San Antonio all the way to Mesela, where the first Texans is what they were called took over Mesela and then they hoisted the Confederate flag there in that New Mexico town. That town's still in existence today. And then they went up past the Rio Grande, along the Rio Grande on a northern route and they went to what was Fort Craig and they defeated the Union Army outside of Fort Craig in a battle known as the Battle of Alverde, and they won that battle and the Union Army, who was occupying Fort Craig for a short time, was dispersed and the Confederate Army, the first Texans, were able to go up from Fort Craig all the way up to Albuquerque and from Albuquerque they took Santa Fe and in Santa Fe they took the first Texans. For the first time ever, it was a Union stronghold. The Union soldiers retreated and the Confederate flag was raised in Santa Fe. Well, that wasn't enough for them. They continued to move further north, they went and they were defeated. Now the Confederate army, the first Texans, in a place called Glorietta Gloria is interesting because as a Baptist kid it's one of the two national Baptist encampments was one at Ridgecrest and the other at Glorietta and at Glorietta Pass. Now the Confederate army was turned back, defeated. They went back, defeated, back to Santa Fe, back down to Albuquerque, back past Val Verde which was their big winning moment past Fort Craig, back to Messola. They traveled all the way back to San Antonio and the Union won the day eventually, and New Mexico, arizona, california already were under Union rule.
Speaker 2:I was reading that book the other day and then I was reading in my quiet time because we're getting ready to preach in 2024 through the book of Hebrews. So I've been reading around in book in Hebrews and I read in Hebrews, chapter 10, verse 39. These words it says but we are not those who draw back and are destroyed, but those who have faith and are saved. And I got the thinking what does it mean to draw back from the Lord? And then, organizationally, what does it mean to draw back from our mission? And Two thoughts came to my mind. First of all, from the book I was reading.
Speaker 2:To draw back is like to retreat and we don't want to be like those who retreat, who draw back like the Confederate army, with their Head between their tail, kind of. And all the way they drew back, all the way from the glory at a pass into, back into Santa Fe, back to Albuquerque, back to Fort Craig, val Verde, back to Messola, all the way back to San Antonio. They begin to write histories Lauding how effective their retreat marches were. And I mean how many organizations are really Celebrating their retreat marches and not their victory marches? And so they drew back in retreat and as an organization, I never want organization to to take land, take property, take Whatever we're trying to take, and then have to draw back because we weren't ready to possess the land.
Speaker 2:The second image that comes to my mind is not one of retreat, but one of rejection. To reject is to draw back and as a leader, we don't want to be rejected either. When I think of that word draw back, I also have the imagery in my mind of like during COVID, and you reach out and shake somebody's hand and they would draw back from you. Many of you have had that experience. Pastor Sean is in the room as we're recording this today and and he's had a lot of experiences with trying to lean in and kiss a girl and her drawing back from him. That to to reject, say I don't want to be in your presence, I don't want to be in your space, is to reject. And you know what? If you don't, you just want to go pick up another directly. There's no holidays, locals, like auto, the.
Speaker 2:As leaders, we don't want to be leaning back. We want to be leaning forward. We want to be leaning into our relationship with the Lord, first and foremost, absolutely. We also want to be leaning into the mission of the organization that we're leading. We don't want to be like those that draw back. We want to be like the second half of the verse, those who have faith and are saved. We want to be people of faith, we want to be people of vision, we want to be leaders of hope and dealers of hope as leaders, the other thought I had as I was reading this book about and we'll get to implementation in just very few short seconds but no position. It's almost impossible to forever defend a stationary position.
Speaker 2:As these people got encamped in their forts, they would get overran. It was easy to cut off the food supplies and the ammunition support to these armies. Soldiers would get tired of walking around in the parade fields of forts. They would actually be, and this boggles my mind a little bit they would actually get upset because some other platoon or regiment was sent out to fight the enemies and they had to stay in the fort. Now I'd be honest, if it was me, I would like okay, you guys go fight, I'm fine here in the fort. But the point is, is the soldiers were trained and raised to be on the battlefield, not trained and raised to hide in a fort, and as you as a leader, you were trained and raised as a leader to be on the front lines, to be sequestered, whether it's behind stained glass windows or fortified structures, and so this is all about the importance of forward momentum.
Speaker 2:I told you in a recent podcast that we'd circle back around and talk about momentum a little more. Three questions that you need to ask about forward momentum as you seek to implement change and implement strategy. One what did we do to get the momentum that we had? Two, when and how did we lose it? And three, how do we get it back? What were you doing when you were getting great momentum?
Speaker 2:There was a time, about four or five years ago, here at our church, I felt like we plateaued a little bit and I was talking to one of our elders who was here when I came at the time when, 11 years ago, when I came and I said man, I don't understand, eugene, we seem to be kind of plateauing and I don't know why, and I really don't know why we grew so fast after I got here. And he said man, that was easy. When you got here, everything changed, everything was new and improved and everything got better. And I didn't realize that. And I realized, man, for us to continue to have momentum, we have to do what Andy Stanley said years ago in a message. I heard him speak on momentum. He said everything needs to be new and improved and he goes down in that talk and talks about all of the things like, like dish washing soap or laundry soap. If you go down the laundry soap aisle at your local grocery store, every box is new and improved better than ever and like. But really, how many ways can you improve laundry soap? You just improved the packaging, but you don't improve the soap itself, but you give the impression that everything's new and improved. That is momentum, and we need momentum in our organization.
Speaker 2:Now let's talk about two or three things important to implementing your already great ideas, and I wanna take you back for this lesson to the Jordan River, where Joshua is the new and improved leader. He's been appointed and anointed as the new leader and his task is to take the children of Israel, who have been walking around in circles for 40 years, and get them across the Jordan River. And in Joshua, chapter three, they're actually gonna do that. We're gonna see three things that help them do that. First of all, you need to look forward. You need to look forward. The Bible says in Joshua three, verse three and four Joshua says it's time to break camp I like that language. It's time to break camp. In other words, it's time for us to move. It's time for us to fish or cut bait. We need to look forward. As a leader, you're always the one that has to be looking across the river not on this side of the river or at the river, but looking across the river. Look forward. Let me give you this illustration.
Speaker 2:Years ago, I was auditioning to be the pastor at a church in Northeast Oklahoma, first Baptist Church in Miami, oklahoma. If you're in Miami and you're listening to this podcast, shout out to you guys. But I went there at 33 years of age to be the pastor and the day that I was to preach, in view of a call auditioned, they were gonna vote on me that night. So there's a lot of pressure packed into that as a 33 year old preacher kid. I was just about ready to get up and go preach and one of the staff ladies whispered into my ear and she said Pastor Jackie, I just wanna let you know that Henry Blackaby is in the room today and for those of you who don't know who Henry Blackaby is, he passed away this past week and was a spiritual giant in so many areas.
Speaker 2:He wrote an amazing book called Experiencing God. And Experiencing God is this great book that God used to disciple millions of people across the globe. And here Henry Blackaby is in the room and I just find out. You know, two minutes before I go out and preach I don't have time to change my sermon. I look at my sermon. I was like I don't think Henry Blackabee would be to prove that these sermon notes this is really not that deep and really not that spiritual. But I went ahead and preached the sermon. They called me as their pastor and Henry Blackabee's was in the room often when I preached there, because his mother-in-law was a member of our church and he would come and visit with his wife, his mother-in-law, and he was always kind enough to stop by and visit with me. And we even did an experiencing God musical where Henry came back and was the narrator for our experiencing God musical one year years ago. But Henry has a great line in his book Experiencing God in which he says we need to find out where God is moving and join him there. So as you think about looking forward, what does God want me to do next? You may be asking the Blackabee question where is God moving and how can I join him there?
Speaker 2:We came to Arizona many years ago for the first time because God was moving in a church planting movement here and then we want to be a part of it. It was like a gold rush and I was a minor and I wanted to come to Arizona and California to the gold rush and for church planting. There was a gold rush going on and I had friends that were a part of it. I wanted to be a part of it, so we packed our family up, family of four. We moved to Arizona when I the day almost the day I turned 40, we moved to Arizona. There's a lot of fours in this story. We packed our family of four, we moved to Arizona when I was 40 and our family of four started to church, stayed four years and it grew to 400. So a lot of it's an interesting number there. But the point is is that we saw the activity of God and we wanted to join him there.
Speaker 2:I would also say, as you think about looking forward, you might also ask this question not only where is God moving and how can I join him there, but where is God not moving and how can I serve him there. It could be that you are in a dark place in our world and there's not much Christian activity around you, but it could be that God has sovereignly placed you in that moment. And where is God not moving? Where God isn't moving, and how can I serve him there? So look forward, think past what's going on now and look forward. The second key to implementation is not only look forward, but look inward. Look inward. Joshua says in Joshua 3.5, is they're getting ready to step into the water? He says consecrate yourselves. Consecrate yourselves. You know.
Speaker 2:So often I think we think that everybody else is the problem, but us. We think this is a political year, we're going to elect a new president and all of the campaigns going on right now, and so it rows us up and we're like man, the country is so bad it's going to hell in a handbasket. Or we look at our schools and we bemoan our schools. We look at our church. We wish our church was better, this or that, and we fail to remember that God hasn't called me to consecrate others. He's called me to consecrate myself. We're consecrate is ascending them with holiness. We need to set ourselves aside for God's purposes in our lives. Whatever organization we're leading, we're never going to lead past our spiritual capacities. And so here's a key thought Before God changes your circumstances, he wants to change your character. Mark it down Before God changes your circumstances, he wants to change your character.
Speaker 2:Often we talk about the three C's in hiring. We want to look for somebody with competency. Certainly, if we're hiring a worship pastor, we want somebody who can sing right. If we're hiring a preacher, we want somebody who can preach. If we are hiring a children's director, we want somebody who understands and has competencies in childhood development and can lead children.
Speaker 2:The second C that you're always looking for when you're hiring is not only competency, but we're looking for chemistry. Does that person fit our team? Does that person fit your staff? It could be that they're highly competent and they're not bad people. They just don't fit your team. And so we've started asking some really simple questions around some of the chemistry of our team. Our team is highly sports driven. We talk a lot about sports when we're gathered around, just water cooler talk, coffee pot talk. If you have no understanding of that world, you're going to feel like an outsider on our team, and I'm not saying every person that works on our staff has to have a sports background, but they need to be able to communicate around some of those common themes, and that results in chemistry.
Speaker 2:So when you're hiring somebody, you're looking for competency, you're looking for chemistry, but never underestimate the importance of the third C, which is character. Does this person speak the truth? Does this person show up when they say they're going to show up? Does this person walk with God? Does this person have a quiet time? Does this person have a spiritual life that we would want others to emulate? And so, as you think about stepping into the river, look forward, look on the other side of the river, but also look inward, consecrate yourselves, break camp. And then he says consecrate yourselves and then finally look upward. What happened? There's some specific instructions in Joshua 3, and you'd have to come to church and listen to me preach this to get all of the biblical references.
Speaker 2:But the Ark of the Covenant went before the children of Israel and he specifically told them don't get too close to the Ark so that you all get crowded up and you can't see it. Stay a thousand yards off so that you could keep your eyes on the Ark. And why is that significant? Well, the Ark represented two things. The Ark represented the commandments and it represented the counselor or the Holy Spirit. First of all, it represented the commandments. Inside the Ark of the Covenant was the Ten Commandments. You know this. You've watched Indiana Jones right, so you know that inside the Ark of the Covenant were the Ten Commandments that Moses took down from Mount Sinai, and it represents God's law, god's commandments, and if you're going to be a great leader, you're going to have to do it ethically, you're going to have to do it in keeping with the commandments that God has given us. But also the Ark represented God's presence. God's presence would go before them Anytime. You see the Ark of the Covenant. It is a symbol in the Old Testament of the presence of God, which today we're reminded of the counselor, the Holy Spirit.
Speaker 2:Jesus would say in John 14 that whoever keeps my commands is the one that loves me, and that I'm sending you a counselor who will be with you forever. And so, even in Jesus' commands in John 14, he has both of the things that the Ark represented as they went into the water the counselor and the commands. You need that man as a leader. You need the counselor, you need the Holy Spirit to direct you, you need divine direction and you also need the Word of God that gives you divine instruction. Here's a key thought If he's called you to do it, he will walk you through it. If he's called you to do it, he will walk you through it. In other words, he's going to go with you so you can take courage, you can implement the thing, because if he's called you to do it, he will walk you through it.
Speaker 2:Here's the final thought of crossing rivers and implementing change Look forward, look inward, look upward, but then take action. Take action, get your feet wet, as Nike would say. Just do it. You can do it. I mean, you can do this thing that God has called you to do. And you'll know that in the story of Joshua and the Israelites, the miracle of the Jordan River is really greater than the miracle of crossing the Red Sea is because the priest had to actually step into the water and get their feet wet before the water stopped, and sometimes we just got to launch out. It's got to do it. Hey, not everything you do is going to work, but in finding things that don't work, you'll find the thing that does work. You have to implement, you have to take action. Here's a key thought If it's true in your heart, it will show in your feet. If it's true in your heart, it will show in your feet. If you really have this idea and you really believe in it, you'll eventually step out in faith and do it. If it's true in your heart, it will show in your feet. So the rest is history.
Speaker 2:Man, they implemented, they walked into the water. It took them a long time. Most historians believe that a march from the Red Sea to the Jordan River would take at most two weeks. It took them 40 years. Like wow, think about that. It was just a two-week march from the Red Sea to the Jordan River, but they stayed in that wilderness space for 40 years. That's what I mean the difference between an idea and implementing the idea. The speed in which you do that is going to give you market advantage.
Speaker 2:Somebody can sit around and think about it, dream it, but they don't do it. They're daydreamers. Others will implement it and they'll enjoy the fruits of it. For 40 years they didn't enjoy the fruits of the Promised Land. It was their land, flowing with milk and honey, but in two days they walked across the Jordan. It took them three days. They camped on one side and it took them hours to walk across the Jordan and immediately you're enjoying the fruits of their labor.
Speaker 2:Some of you aren't enjoying the fruits of your labor because you haven't labored, because you haven't done the thing, you haven't implemented it. So here's a question I want to leave with you this month what are you doing? That is so daring that without God, it is sure to fail. If God doesn't show up, they're going to drown in the Jordan. It's flood stage, time of harvest, the Bible says in Joshua 3. And if God doesn't show up, they're going to get terribly embarrassed.
Speaker 2:I used to work with a staff guy and he was always encouraging. You say, because we look at stuff and I don't think we could do that, and he's like every time you say I don't think we could do it, I think that we should do it because we shouldn't be doing things that we think that we can do on our own. We should be doing things that would require God to show up, and if he doesn't, we'll look the part of the fool. So what are you doing? Where are you leading that? If that? It is so daring, it is so full of bravado that if God doesn't show up. It's sure to fail, and that's probably what you ought to be doing. Hope you have a great day and enjoyed this episode of the leadership drop podcast.
Speaker 1:Thanks for listening to the leadership drop podcast. Be sure to like, subscribe and share. In case you missed it, here's our might drop moment.
Speaker 2:Here's the final thought of crossing rivers and implementing change. Look forward, look inward, look upward, but then take action.