The Leadership Drop Podcast
This is a podcast for Pastors, leaders, and anyone who wants to grow to be all that God has called them to be.
The Leadership Drop Podcast
From Surviving to Thriving through Purposeful Leadership
Embark on a journey of transformation and discover the undeniable power of alignment in leadership with Pastor Jackie and special guest, Chad Garrison. As we unravel Chad's experiences with Calvary Church, you'll be privy to a story of growth and revival, where aligning vision with practice shifted a congregation from mere survival to a thriving community of over 3,000 members. This episode promises to illuminate the intricate dance of maintaining that vital alignment, shedding light on tough decisions and the continuous need to steer your team like a captain at the helm of a ship, navigating through calm and stormy waters alike.
Welcome to the Leadership Drop Podcast. In each episode, pastor Jackie, along with selected guests from time to time, aim to drop some leadership insights that are designed to help you thrive, whether you're leading a church, a business, a team, a family or simply yourself. So lean in, listen, laugh and learn as we drop some leadership truth, and watch out for that leadership mic drop moment. Let's go.
Speaker 2:Hey, welcome to this month's edition of the Leadership Drop podcast. I'm Pastor Jackie here at Cross Church and every month we try to give our leaders some leadership tips that will help you in your school, at your business, if you're on a team, and certainly here at church. And so this month's podcast is built around the idea of alignment, and we're going to talk with an expert in the field of alignment. I've invited my friend, Chad Garrison, who is the pastor longtime pastor of Calvary Church in Lake Havasu City here in Arizona, to be our guest to talk about alignment. Chad, welcome to our podcast.
Speaker 3:Hey, Jackie, thanks for having me on. It's a joy to be here.
Speaker 2:Great. Could you just give for context a little bit of your backstory, what God's done at Calvary? I know the story but not everyone would know it. Just give us a little snapshot of your time at Calvary and Lake Havasu.
Speaker 3:I'd be happy to. Hey, I came to Calvary in 1992, so almost 32 years ago and it was a little church almost 32 years ago, and it was a little church thinking about surviving, thinking about doing little things. They were really excited about building a fellowship hall so they could have monthly potluck kind of thing and you know I wasn't planning on staying here for 30 years.
Speaker 3:I thought I'd stay here for three or four years, you know, and then move on to a real church in a real city. But God had better plans and so we started growing and kept growing and kept growing and built again and kept growing and kept growing and along the way we made a real, strong transition from being a church that was traditional in nature and collecting Christians because people are moving to Lake Navas when they were looking for a church. We're growing because we primarily collected Christians and just out of a conviction that I had that other people were celebrating our success, I kind of personally felt like God wasn't because, you know, he sent us to make disciples and we were just collecting disciples. So we made a shift in terms of what we did as a church. We started focusing on the unchurched people in our community. That they're our target, that's who we want to reach. Christians will still join us because they're looking for a church, but we're not trying to make them happy.
Speaker 3:We started a modern service, which now has grown into three modern services a weekend, and it really took off because instead of baptizing a few people, we started baptizing a lot of people, and, instead of being a church that was focused on a lot of the traditional things that I grew up with as a lifelong Southern Baptist, you know we started focusing on things that were effective in reaching the lost, and so, you know, we've gone from a church of about a hundred to now, on the weekend, between our in-person and online, we're well over 3000 on a regular basis, and and so we we, you know we rejoice in that. You know things I get excited about the fact that you know, last year we baptized 228 people. We baptized a thousand in the last five years. So those are things I get excited about, and so, like other pastors, we get excited about the life-changing opportunities that God has given them.
Speaker 2:That's great man, great story. I'm privileged to be your friend. I know you guys were highlighted in Outreach Magazine as one of the top 100 fastest growing churches in America, right there in Lake Havasu City, and so some time ago, about 11 years ago, I moved to the Valley for the second time and our church was kind of like your church was years ago when you came there. It was a couple hundred people, not extremely large, but we had some mutual friends that decided that we should be friends, and I think what they actually decided was I needed help and I needed somebody to coach me who was much older than me, and so they.
Speaker 3:I think it really had to do with the fact that we both like to golf.
Speaker 2:Yes, and we've golfed all over the place. Man, we go to the Southern Baptist Convention every year to attend meetings, right, and also to find a nice golf course, and I think we're about head-to-head about even in terms of wins and losses there. I think I have a little advantage on out-of-state courses and you have a decided advantage on out-of-state courses and you have a decided advantage on in-state courses. But that's your local knowledge showing up, I think. But anyways, it was actually this conversation we're talking about alignment actually started on a golf course.
Speaker 2:We were playing golf I think maybe for the very first time you were in town, and we were at the Wigwam, which is just south of our church here on the gold course. I remember this really vividly, chad. We were at the Wigwam on the gold course. I hadn't played golf with you before. They said you were a good golfer and we were on the second hole, I think.
Speaker 2:I think it was the second hole on the second hole, I think I think it was the second hole and we were in the fairway and I asked you the question as you were pulling out a six iron out of your bag to hit your second shot. Now I was wondering from 140 yards out, why you were pulling out a six iron because it seemed like too much club to me. But I asked you this question. I said when did your church really start growing? And Chad, without missing a beat, pulling a six iron out of your golf bag. You said when we got alignment. Talk to us about what that meant in that season where you guys were not aligned, and how you got aligned and how important that was.
Speaker 3:Yeah, no, I think alignment is absolutely essential if you really want to have sustained growth, sustained health, you know, because alignment is really just everybody pulling together for the same goal for the mission of Christ. In the case of a church, you know, in a business it might be another goal, but it's still pulling together in the same goal for the mission of Christ. In the case of the church, you know, in a business, it might be another goal, but it's still pulling together in the same direction, everybody trying to really live the same values out on a daily basis. And this really came to light for us when we were making the shift that I just shared about a minute ago, because we changed everything. Now. We changed it for the purpose of the mission of Christ.
Speaker 3:We wanted to reach the lost, we wanted to have a church where people would bring their unchurched friends too, and there was a segment of our church leadership and congregation that was not on board with that congregation. That was not on board with that. And even as we were seeing more people saved than ever before, there were people grumbling and complaining and finally left the church. About 15% of our church left overnight, and it was devastating. On one hand, I'd go to a service and everybody's celebrating the crowds coming in. Next thing, I'd go to a service and everybody's complaining about where did everybody go? And it was a painful time.
Speaker 3:And as those people left you know, these were people who'd been friends, who'd helped me build Calvary to the church that it was, and I thought they were with me, I thought that we were on the same page, and what that conflict revealed was they were not aligned with the mission and vision of Calvin. Now, we've talked about it. I just assumed that they were on board with it and uh, and I was devastated that so many people walked out. And they walked out not really well. Uh, they, they were angry because I, I ruined their church. Uh, you know, they were angry because I ruined their church. They were angry and accusative because we weren't doing things the way they thought we should be doing things, and so I worked really hard at redeeming bail a lot that spring, but in the end.
Speaker 3:out of that, we decided we needed to create a system that promoted alignment for our church, and we started a class that now is called LEAD. So if you want to ever be in a place of leadership at Calvary, you have to go through LEAD. And what LEAD is is really just talking about who we are and why we do what we do.
Speaker 3:And we're not going to put anybody in a position of leadership if they don't hear that, understand that and sign a commitment card that they're going to live for that and promote that. And so when we started doing that at the beginning, we were trying to catch people up that were already part of the church, already in leadership.
Speaker 3:But now if you're coming into the church and you want to possibly step into leadership, that's a requirement Before you get to lead anything. You get to go through our mission and our values and how those all fit together to carry out the strategies that we have adopted for reaching our unchurched communities around us. And it's been amazing, it's cut down on conflict because everybody knows the why. If you're not on board with the why, then don't sign the paper and don't hang around. But they sign it, they're enthusiastic, they go yes, we love this, we're for this, and so we align from the leadership on down, and so you know you can't really impact the community I don't think on the same basis unless your leadership is aligned as a church and where you're going and why you're doing that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we do. It's not called lead, but we do an introductory meeting with everybody wants to, you know, on ramp into our church, first five or ten minutes trying to talk them out of joining our church. Because if you want to do something here in our church, if you want to serve in some way in our church, then you need to know that we're not going to change. I liken it to the fact that sometimes people have come to our church over the past years and they're like somebody went to work at Target but they didn't want to wear a red shirt.
Speaker 2:It's like oh, we wear red shirts, that's our culture, that's who we are, that's what we do, and so, being clear, I have a friend that says to be unclear is to be unkind, and I think that's what you're doing with fighting for alignment. Could, you extrapolate a little bit on how, because, watching these podcasts, our business leaders in our church and friends around the US could you extrapolate a little bit of how important you see alignment in non-profits and for-profits organizations?
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I sit on the board of several non-profits as well as have a number of friends in business. So I think the principles are exactly the same. Now we define our mission biblically. I have a Christian businessman incorporate biblical principles in their business. But if you know why you're doing what you're doing and you understand the values associated with what you're doing, then it helps align your business, it helps align your family, it helps align your time usage. It really does all those things for you because you've already decided what the priorities are and that's really what your mission and values do. They align your priorities.
Speaker 3:So here's the hardest thing about that it doesn't matter whether it's a church or a business or a nonprofit. You can't import your values. Your values are an extension of you. Import your values. Your values are an extension of you. When you think through this in terms of alignment and the kind of ministry, you want to build a business, you want to build a non-profit, you want to lead or a family, you have to really do some soul-searching. What are my values? What are the things that are going to ooze out of?
Speaker 1:me.
Speaker 3:Because you, as an independent leader, are going to create the culture around you, and that's not you know. If you try to import a value that is counter to your own personal values, it won't work.
Speaker 2:Yeah, one of the next podcast topics that we're going to deal with you guys tune back for it is on culture and culture building and how important that is. I know. When you told me that little word of advice on the golf course, I went back home and I said, man, these are areas that we're out of alignment on. We had a school that was competing with value. They just gobbled up all the oxygen in the room. Our ministry team would spend all day at staff meetings putting out fires on a side of the ministry that we didn't really have a lot of authority in at the time, and so I'm like we got to fix that and we wrote all of our bylaws and constitution fixed it.
Speaker 2:A lot of people didn't like how we fixed it and they left, but that was okay. They stopped being oxygen thieves in our staff meetings and we were able to work. It just freed up workspace right, because we were able to work on the things that actually grow the church instead of the things that aren't growing the church but maybe they're negatively affecting the church because of reputation and gossip and all of that kind of stuff. So, man, I'm just a living testimony of how important that advice was, and to your statement on values. We instituted just three values. Long before we did mission statements, we said these are our values, this is who we are, and that's part of alignment, as you're saying. What are some other things you mentioned? Go ahead.
Speaker 3:Oh no, I just was going to say, when it comes to that, one of the things that I heard that really helped me kind of frame this is you know, imagine you're on a cruise ship and you know everybody who's aligned with you're on a cruise ship and, uh, you know everybody who's on, aligned with you, who shares your mission and values. They're kind of like the staff of the cruise ship. You know they're the crew that's running everything, um. And then the people that are with you but they haven't bought in, you know, haven't signed on the dotted line or whatever. They're the passengers, uh, you know. And then, uh, you've got a few stowaways that are with you. They're're not a danger, they're not a threat, they're just checking things out.
Speaker 3:Those are the guests that are slipping in and wanting to see, hey, what do you really like? What's Cross Church really like? What's Calvary really like? But the danger is the pirates. Right, the pirates are the people who act like they're with you. They really want to take over and they don't share your mission, they don't share your values, but they try to look like they do so they can gain leadership, gain authority and then steal what the ministry or the nonprofit or the business really is. And when I heard that now, when we run into somebody who we go and we've had volunteer leaders, we've had them in the school and the church that were pirates they wanted to hijack the mission of what we were doing we had staff that were pirates, that played along, spoke the words but they didn't live out the values that the rest of us are trying to live out and it just stood out like a story of time and we're like hey, you're not with us, you're a pirate. And that picture for me kind of brought it all into focus of going hey, who's on the crew and who are the pirates? That's the people. They're our targets really.
Speaker 2:You've got an actual name for those that are out of alignment You're a pirate.
Speaker 3:Well, I mean, if they're not going to get in alignment, yeah, yeah, we use a little bit different analogy.
Speaker 2:We talk about how vision is created at the top, it's supported at the bottom, but it can be destroyed in the middle. And the people in the middle are people who just have enough influence or, you know, nobody. Nobody's going to destroy the vision or the alignment of the church that come and sit on the back row once a month Um, it's going to be from those that have some level of buy-in at least, uh, appear to have buy-in, and now we're going to call them, uh, pirates, and now we're going to call them pirates. You mentioned earlier your class that you use to maintain alignments, anything else that helps you maintain, to continue proper alignment.
Speaker 2:And let's realize, this is just an ongoing deal. You're always going to have to fight for it. Right, like I have a lifetime. I got new tires on my truck. I got the lifetime alignment deal. Every time they go in, my truck goes in for an oil change, tires are getting rotated and aligned, because it's always. We're going to always fight for that. And what are some ways that you guys outside of your class fight for it? How do you speak to it?
Speaker 3:Yeah, well, the class really is for our lay leadership and make sure that the people we're trusting to help us lead are aligned with us. For a staff we go through the five dysfunctions of a team by Patrick Lencioni every other year because it kind of helps us keep a healthy working model of how we want to lead team, healthy working model of how we want to do team. We, again, in staff meetings, we go through our mission values on a regular basis so they become the focus of devotions for a season. As we talk through that or when we're doing phrases, we go, hey, that's, you know, that's embodying that value, and then we teach them to the church regularly. So those things that are really key, the mission and the values we just drip in and most messages we'll have one of them.
Speaker 3:We'll refer to the mission, we'll refer to one of the values that illustrates a point, just kind of going hey, connect this to the dots about why. And we do that on the macro level with the whole church and sermons. But we do that up close with staff in our staff meetings as well. We'll do it at deacon meetings. We'll do it at our executive council meetings. All the key leaders, we just kind of remind them hey, this is part of who we are.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we tell stories a lot and we also lean into those slogans because they're memorable, and I try to remind myself and our team that we're constantly preaching to a parade, right, because there's a whole group of people coming this week that wasn't here last week or maybe wasn't even here this past year, that need to continually get the message about alignment. Hey, let's move the conversation on a little bit here. What are some mistakes that you've made as a leader when it comes to this or other areas? Just a little transparency Areas you wish you had a mulligan in, and I know how much you love mulligans. So what are some areas that you're like? Man, I wish I'd done this earlier. I wish I hadn't done this at all.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean the the the most obvious mistakes are kind of like the unaligned staff hires. You know you have hopes for somebody to, and I'll just say this I think it's harder to align staff than it is to align lay leaders, because lay leaders, you know they can walk away, go I'm going to go to church down the road. I don't like this one. You pay someone to be there and they're going to show up, but they may or may not be aligned with you and you don't usually find that out until you know they've already had an opportunity to do some damage. So biggest mistakes unaligned staff hires.
Speaker 3:For me it was not holding staff accountable at the real active level, especially in the early years. And there was this one time that I had two staff members, a school director and a children's minister, that were about to beat each other up in the parking lot. They were about to get into a fight and I wasn't on campus at the time. I heard about it and you know, uh, and I wasn't on campus and I heard about it, uh and I, you know nowadays, if that happened, jackie, I mean both of them would be terminated on the spot, you know, or put on probation and and you know, written up and said hey, one more thing like this, you're gone.
Speaker 3:We just grease them up and put them in the Octagon and it's like fight it out and so, but back then I was like trying to placate, trying to oh, okay, yeah, and so we lived as long as they were both on staff. We lived with that tension between these two that we never resolved. I mean, they learned to pretend like they resolved it but they really didn't, and that was on me, it was unnecessary tension, and so I've learned to step into accountability. That means that that one of the things that church is really bad at is calling out bad behavior of leaders. If a leader is doing something that doesn't align with the value, the way you treat people, or just not being transparent, or whatever the case is, then I grew up in churches that tolerated that. I've tolerated that at times. I always love those excuses that churches make for people who act you know, who act out in church.
Speaker 1:You know, oh well they meant.
Speaker 3:Well, actually, it looks like they meant was evil and we excuse bad behavior, and so I've learned to address it and hold it accountable. I think one of the other mistakes and this is probably not unique to me, but definitely one of my biggest I'm really organic as a leader. For a long time I resisted systems. I didn't like systems personally. I have them, but it's in my head and I can't describe them. I didn't like systems personally. I have them, but it's in my head and I can't describe them but I didn't like systems for the church and I handicapped the church and the growth that we have, and we're always now trying to retrofit and catch up with our systems, whether it's for life groups or for operations, and we just haven't done enough of that, and that was my fault.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's good man. I'm going to try to land the plane a little bit here. Let's talk personally in your life. How do you maintain balance between a growing church I know you have denominational responsibilities and the denomination I'm a part of? How do you maintain balance between the growing church, denominomination, responsibilities, family and your own self-life?
Speaker 3:How do you stay personally aligned? Okay, fair enough, make sure that I get rest. My wife would disagree with this next statement, but I'm not a workaholic she thinks I am, but I have my average hours per week at least inactive in the office or doing ministry is probably 45. So I don't work a full 60-hour week. I'm always thinking about ministry and so even when.
Speaker 3:I'm at home, I've still got thoughts in my head, but I'm not in the office doing things. So, getting rest, I play religiously. So it's golf once a week at least, and I try to do more often than that if I can. It's playing with my grandkids, because they're important to me, and hanging out with friends and laughing a lot. So that's recreation for me. That's recreation, uh.
Speaker 3:And then you know, I had to build into because I almost burned out, uh, or did burn out I don't know if we can put it after 10 years, uh, leaving calvary, the first 10 years I didn't take time off, I was a workaholic, uh, I didn't neglect my kids, but I neglected my own personal health. I didn't neglect my kids, but I neglected my own personal health. And out of that recovery I developed a rhythm of prayer that works for me and it involves, you know, regular prayer time each day, extended prayer time each week, and then prayer retreats on a regular basis throughout the year, longer ones in the summer, shorter ones in the other seasons, but where I can pull away for a day or a couple of days and just be alone with God. Again, those tools have helped me just to stay balanced. But I also have a cheat code built in.
Speaker 3:I like to again, I like to play. So if I don't play, I don't function well at work. So I want to work so I can play, and I play while I'm working and I work while I'm playing. I don't know where the lines are all the time, but I make sure that play is a big part of my life.
Speaker 2:I think that's great, great advice. And if there's other pastors watching this, uh, I just want you guys to hear this. Here's a guy that pastors a church of three thousand some odd people on the weekend, that has time to play and permission to do so. And so I just say, man, make sure that there's there's margins in your life so that you can stay personally aligned, and then make sure that your church stays aligned to that thing, that vision, that mission that God's called you to be about. Chad, appreciate it, man. I look forward to playing golf with you soon. My golf season started now that quail hunting season has ended, so I go from shooting birds to trying to shoot a birdie and, uh, I'm not good at either, but I enjoy it.
Speaker 3:Well, hey, jack, for having me on. I appreciate it, and I need to play golf with you really soon before you have a chance to get back in your group so I have a better chance to be. So hey, uh, no, hey, continue the good work. Uh, thanks for the opportunity.
Speaker 2:All right, thanks, and I hope you've enjoyed this episode of the Leadership Drop podcast.