Thinking Class
Thinking Class is a weekly long-form interview podcast exploring the cultural, historical, and civilisational forces shaping England, Britain, and the Western world.
Hosted by John Gillam, the show brings together historians, philosophers, theologians, economists, and public intellectuals for conversations that go beyond the news cycle by examining the deep roots of the West's present predicament and asking what genuine recovery might require.
Guests have included David Starkey, Lord Jonathan Sumption, Lord Nigel Biggar, Robert Tombs, Peter Hitchens, Lionel Shriver, Roy Baumeister, Kathleen Stock, Carl Trueman, and many others.
If you value serious conversation about Britain, the West, and the forces shaping our future, then this is the show for you.
New episodes every week.
Thinking Class
#100 - Philip Cunliffe - Britain After Globalism: Demographics, Identity And The National Interest
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Philip Cunliffe is Associate Professor of International Relations at the UCL, where he researches and teaches on the topics of international order, multinational military intervention, and conflict management. He has 20 years of academic experience, having previously worked as a Senior Lecturer at the University of Kent and a Temporary Lecturer at the UK’s Joint Services Command and Staff College. He obtained his PhD in War Studies from King’s College London. He has also worked as a contributor to the Economist Intelligence Unit.
He is a prolific author and editor, having published eight books and numerous academic articles and chapters on many aspects of international politics and security. His recent books include Taking Control: Sovereignty And Democracy After Brexit (2022), authored with George Hoare, Lee Jones, and Peter Ramsay. Philip is the author of The National Interest (2025).
As globalisation tightens and geopolitics returns, “national interest” stops being a slogan and becomes a necessity. Philip Cunliffe argues that Britain must relearn statecraft—what it is, how it’s justified, and how it can command loyalty in a changed demographic and moral landscape.
In this conversation:
- What “national interest” means (and what it isn’t)
- How Britain’s political class became post-national
- Sovereignty, democracy, and the limits of liberal categories
- Demographic change and political legitimacy
- Can institutions forge shared loyalty—or only manage pluralism?
Where to find Philip Cunliffe's work:
- Follow and subscribe to Philip on Substack
- Follow Philip on X/Twitter
- Buy Philip's latest book here: The National Interest: Politics After Globalisation
- Discover Philip's other books on Amazon
About Thinking Class:
Thinking Class is a long-form interview podcast exploring the cultural, historical, and moral forces shaping England, Britain, and the wider Western world.
Hosted by John Gillam, the show features serious conversations with historians, academics, and independent thinkers.
Thinking Class is concerned with discovering long-term patterns over headlines and hot-takes. Expect historically-grounded analysis on matters of national character, institutions, demography, belief, and political legitimacy.
New episodes every week.
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