This podcast episode is sponsored by ChiefAIOfficer.com, offering training and certification through the International Association of Chief AI Officers. Interested in a new career or leveling up your value in the marketplace? ChiefaiOfficer.com can help. Welcome to Using AI at Work. I'm your host, Chris Daigle. Each week we'll be learning how today's business owners, entrepreneurs, and ambitious professionals are getting more done with smart use of tomorrow's tech. Let's get started. Yeah. But um we had a chance to connect before we started recording, and um, there's a lot of parallels to with what you're doing and the experiences that I'm having. So I think this is gonna be a fantastic conversation. So before we jump in, um, if you don't mind, just share with everybody kind of where you are now and how you arrived at that as far as uh being an AI expert.
SPEAKER_02Well, I always hesitate to say AI expert to start with. So thank you, Chris, for having me on. Um, my name is Angie. I I had a marketing agency for 18 years. And um at like I said, the worst than the best time I jumped out of my agency to pursue consulting. I actually pursued consulting to take control of my life, to not have employees anymore, to um not work so much. And uh at the same time, I had AI on the uh in my sites. Like I knew it was coming, I knew it was going to transform my industry. And um when I took on consulting, I was planning on um infusing AI into everything that I did. But I although saw AI coming, I didn't understand how big the transformation would be. So I jumped into consulting about two and a half years ago with a specific intention of just doing it in the marketing lane. I was an expert in marketing, and I can I can confidently say that, um, and learning AI as I went. Uh, but then I jumped into doing consulting and AI marketing, and quickly the corporations that I was working with said, wait a second, you know, the marketing teams are having success. How can we do this here, here, here, here, here, here? Generative AI touches everything everywhere. And so quickly I started becoming the person that could help all departments everywhere understand how to utilize generative AI. And so I became more of a broad scope AI adoption consultant in the you know from the very beginning.
SPEAKER_00So um were you already using generative AI tools prior to the release of GPT 3.5 in November of 2022?
SPEAKER_02Um, yes, we were at the marketing agency. We were already using the tools. Um, I can't remember what the one was called, but like Jasper, uh anyword. I think it was called AnyWord. We were already using those tools, but nothing to I had like that aha moment like you just described as we were talking earlier. It was when I jumped into it using generative AI, like more as a focus instead of an afterthought, I was like, wow, this is changing everything. And so when it became more of a focus was when I really saw the potential and started putting my emphasis on it.
SPEAKER_00So these clients, once you started consulting, did you, you know, was AI part of the narrative? Hey, I'm an AI marketer, or were they had that go?
SPEAKER_02I can't say I so just to preface all this, it has not been easy peasy. Like this has been a rough road. Um, I think a lot of corporations are hurt in the beginning, you know, we're talking two years ago, heard AI, didn't know what generative AI was versus what AI is and was and has been for the last 70 years. Um, there's been an enormous education factor here. Uh people wanted to do AI because they just wanted to be the first to say they were doing AI. And to be quite honest, some of the CEOs that I worked with in the beginning just wanted to be the guy that in the room that told their buddies that they, yeah, they were doing AI. I'm just being real here.
SPEAKER_01Sure.
SPEAKER_02So I jumped into that right away with the kind of the CEOs that wanted to be that guy. And I I saw that right away. I did start working with people and teaching the teams how to use generative AI, and it was great. But no one two years ago, none of the teams really even understood what generative AI was, the capabilities. And it, you know, I'm in the Midwest, so I don't believe that we are in the forefront of adoption necessarily. I do think that little sectors of us are. But um, yes, so in the beginning, it was just sort of a there is a major disconnect with what I want to do, you know, and in my proposals and pitches were very clear. This is exactly what I want to do and what I plan to do, and what the vision of or what the CEOs or executive teams thought that they wanted or understood what was going to happen here. So I jumped into roles and then very quickly understood that I needed to rethink my plan. So at the end of my first year, I kind of stopped working for everyone that I was working for and revisited my entire business model to rethink that and start over again. So it has been a constant iteration of what am I doing? Who am I working with? What do they know? What do I need to teach them? What are my service offerings? And it hasn't been really a straight uh up the ladder type of progress. It has been all over the place.
SPEAKER_00You know, you mentioned something about it hasn't been easy, right? Like people that might be listening to this and might think that uh I'm gonna learn AI. And my experience was that being early, right? Like you were, there was certainly interest, but it didn't necessarily translate into like overwhelming business flow necessarily. I don't I don't know if being early was something that that you realize, like, oh my gosh, I'm early, and this is um there's a lot of education that needs to take place. There's you like there's personal upskilling that needs to take place because you have to stay ahead ahead of the clients and the curve and all that stuff. The the challenges that you were talking about, talk to me about that. What where did they come from? What did that look like?
SPEAKER_02Most of it is just that I would, I mean, it's hard to answer that question in a simple way, but the challenges were enormous. They still are. I mean, they still are enormous. But most of my challenges stem from an executive team or leadership wanting to achieve what, you know, the conferences and headlines say they can achieve with AI, but not wanting to invest in the literacy and education of their employees that are utilizing the technology. This is a huge disconnect. We need to train from the bottom up, is what I say, even though that sounds probably terrible. But like I see a big disconnect in all, you know, I'm gonna be, this is probably gonna come off bad here, but I'm just gonna straight up say it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02I think a lot of the upper level management and CEOs are seeing generative AI as a way to decrease workforce. And I think why do you invest in the education and literacy of your workforce if part of your motive is to get rid of some of them? And I think that that's a major it's a major problem. So I think that what there's a people want generative AI, they want it, they want it, but they don't know the problem that it solves. They just want it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02So they need a plan to identify the problems that it solves and then a strategy to put it in place to um identify the use cases to solve those problems, but instead it's more like what I'm seeing right now is just we want it, we want it to do this, we want it to do this, and we want it to automate everything. And it's it's just it's yes, parts of it are easy. Is that what you're seeing? Like, what are you seeing in yours?
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So like I don't have an answer to what's gonna happen five years from now because of AI. Because for sure, as you have seen and your clients see when you work with them, you can get more done with this technology than you can with, you know, 40 mules. Um what I tell individuals and business owners is that look, the hard part of AI isn't learning how to use the tools, it's knowing where to use it.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_00And you've got these people who understand your domain, how your business works. Oh, she's got the keys, and on Thursday we do it this way. And if you come in and replace them with AI, AI is not gonna understand all of that operational nuance. So I tell people that they've done the hard part, and that's all the experience they've built in their career, so that when they learn the tools, which isn't hard, they're able to go, oh, I can use that here, here. Oh, they can like they they make that connection. Um one of the things that we like to do is have a meeting with a leadership team and just make sure that they're all at 101. We do like a presentation so that it kind of demystifies it for them and they don't think, hey, can I just push this AI button and get rid of the HR department? Like they need to understand stuff. And um the way that we approach it, two steps. Let's figure out a use policy or some guidelines so that everybody understands like the right and wrong way to use it in our company, and then we do the training, and then we kind of you know start with pilot so that it's not just a switch that we flip and all of a sudden, you know, people are learnt like figuring out the wrong things while they're on the clock, kind of thing.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I take a very similar approach. I I and I try, I try to take that similar approach, but I have been met with resistance even with CEOs that don't want to put policies in place because they don't understand the value of policies, which they think they're being forward-thinking because they don't want to restrict their employees. But I explain it that by putting the policies in place, you're actually freeing your employees to experiment by giving them guardrails and giving them protection and letting them explore an experiment and not letting them go off the cliff. But I have had CEOs also that just say, no, oh yeah, no, we want to be forward thinking we don't want any rules, we just want to let them, you know, and so that that too I've had, you know, people that are that have said just the opposite. But I and then I say we need to get, I agree 1000% with you, Chris, is that the people, and I and this is re this is my most recent like passion or efforts, is that a workshop, a company-wide workshop that levels the understanding of generative AI. I don't care if you have been using generative AI for two years, the likelihood that you actually understand what's happening under the hood, how it works, how it's progressing, um is unlikely because I've done workshops now for I've done an intro to generative AI workshop now for a year. And the people that are using generative AI leave the workshop and say, oh my gosh, this changes everything. And so, like that first workshop, just invest in getting your team at the same level so that you are sure that everything you the language that you speak moving forward, if you say L L M, everybody in your company knows what that means and what L and L and M stands for. You know, it's just like that. I just wish it were so much easier for companies to say see the value in that and just to say, oh yeah, you know, for however much it costs, like that is just an essential starting point, even if that means reeling back, you know, walking back a few steps. Yes, let's do that. And I just wish it were a lot easier and more clear for companies to see that value.
SPEAKER_00So these companies, when they reach out to you, as far as your marketing goes and and the the marketplace, what are they what are they reaching out to you for?
SPEAKER_02Well, I'm in my area, I'm one of the few that are that are doing is is doing AI consulting. So I get a lot of so you focus on local businesses primarily? Well, I have a large community here in my local area. And by word of mouth, um I am, you know, talked about by a lot of people. I don't do any marketing myself at this point. I am trying to streamline, productize, and and sort of do some things, but I'm like you probably, I am so busy with will you speak here? Will you do a workshop here? Will you be on this podcast?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. Thank you.
SPEAKER_02And I like it. And I love, and I have a, you know, I want to spend my time also with my community. And and I'm really right now this year focused on individual learners. You know, the World Economic Forum just indicated that the United States initiating the AI learning is through the individual learners by a huge percentage, something like 90%. So corporate America is not supporting necessarily or initiating the people learning their their their AI learning journey, but the people are.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_02And yes, the the the buku money is not in the the the individual learners, and I don't care about that. But supporting the people that are saying, I see the value, I want to, I want to be in charge of my career growth. I'm going to learn. So I'm I'm I'm shifting my focus a little bit right now. And I kind of say, like, some of these corporations, and this is gonna sound bad too, but you know what we said we said at the marketing agency, the people that didn't, you know, they you know, you you do your marketing pitch and they don't they say, ah, we're gonna try to do it ourselves. We say, you'll be back. You'll be back, and when you do, you'll be the most loyal client ever. That's where I feel a little bit corporate has to, they have to like a toddler, you know, they have to fall before they walk. And I'm seeing a lot of corporations that I work with try to help, try to consult, kind of hiring an internal growth officer or hiring a a non person that knows nothing about AI, but one that wants to take on that role that will epically fail, understanding the potential of generative AI.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And they're hiring that person that says, oh, I'd like to, but that person has a hundred hats to wear and a hundred roles to fill. And that person is going to try to figure out the AI, they're going to fail.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02They're going to fail, especially if they don't understand the landscape of AI, of generative. And so I in my space, in my Midwest understanding and area, and I truly believe that it filters into every area of the United States in some capacity. I feel that some of the corporations have to fail and maybe fail fast and fail epically in order to understand the value of the chief AI officer or the head of AI.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02That role, because that role is um an unusual role that's never existed in corporate America before, because it's a role that has to translate tech to people. And it's it's an unusual role. And I don't know that the value of that is understood. And those of us that are trying to navigate the space aren't very good at explaining what our value is, or at least I'm not. And so I think the corporate has to fail. And with AI, you can fail big and fast over and over again because you can do things so fast. And so I'm kind of like in a space where I am helping some companies, and I love, I love the agencies, marketing agencies, and I love the smaller. Um, but I do think that some people have to learn a lesson, you know, a little bit of a lesson before they really start to value and um hold, hold these AI officer, chief AI officer positions at a higher level than what they currently are. I think they're trying internally first.
SPEAKER_00And you know, I think one of the challenges was that because the analytical side of AI has been around so long, there was already an established kind of um taxonomy and and curriculum and things like that. So individuals who early on wanted to learn about AI, that's what they found. And they went in there and they learned about neural networks and and you know, deep learning. And that does not help you. Uh most businesses, at some point perhaps, but the real value is not going to come from somebody understanding how a neural network works.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. So the efficiency gains come with translating, in my opinion, translating task-based use cases into workflows. This is where it starts anyway, and then it needs to um it needs to be transpire from that, but that's where the disconnect is. AI is not the IT department in any capacity. If anything, I would argue that it is the marketing personnel that understand generative AI and its capabilities more than anyone, because marketing, it touches every single aspect, like the image, visual, data, text, like so whereas I can see why understandably corporations think IT and but it's try to get your IT department to translate generative AI into creating assistants that manage automations for email organization and replies. Like it it yes, it's it's it's a new language. It just that doesn't work.
SPEAKER_00This is fascinating because, you know, uh, as I mentioned before the call, like this is like the frontier. There's just nobody out here, right? Yet independently, we're seeing the same things. I agree on the the IT side of things. If anything, I IT has held, and for IT professionals listening, we love you in the generative AI world. Please don't.
SPEAKER_02We need you. We love you.
SPEAKER_00Um but this is not an IT role. It's a it's more like a domain, somebody who understands.
SPEAKER_02And they would agree. I mean, I those that understand generative AI absolutely know this is not them.
SPEAKER_00And when we talk to companies and they say, well, we don't have anybody using AI, I'd say, hold on, let me talk to the marketing team. Right? Because they've always been uh digital marketers are are uh eager to test out new tools and things, so they weren't afraid of the technology. And so like those are some interesting parallels that uh you're experiencing that we're experiencing as well. So the individuals, you said the individual learners that you're talking to, who are they? Have you noticed a pattern?
SPEAKER_02They're everyone, everywhere. There's no pattern, there's and like we call them a diverse group of people. Like um they're from you know, PhD at university to uh retired, a lot of retired individuals, which I love seeing.
SPEAKER_00We see the same, yeah.
SPEAKER_02We see high school students um that are trying to figure and figure out and navigate their own learning journey to people in corporations that the corporations aren't supporting AI adoption, or to people in corporations. You know, at my last workshop last week, I had individuals from a corporation that is very successfully adopting AI has been for years, and and they're known for how well they've done it, but the marketing, the individuals are still looking at their screen saying, What do I do with this? Um, to the people that there's a company well known that's also saying, absolutely never use this. We will not, we don't, we don't let you cannot use Chat GPT. So, like, um, but the individuals are taking it on themselves to say. And I argue that the companies that that say you cannot use AI, generative AI, are going to lose their employees because these individuals are pursuing their own, they're they're taking their career into their own hands and saying, hey, sorry, Charlie, I know that this is important for my future. So I'm learning. But there is absolutely no uh persona that you could put on the people that come to my workshops. There's nothing that you could do to define there are everyone, everywhere, all ages, um, and all uh education levels and and everywhere.
SPEAKER_00Are you noticing any patterns as far as like what the initial questions are or miss uh the miss assumptions? I don't know if that's uh the wrong assumptions that people might have before they get kind of tuned up on what's possible?
SPEAKER_02The first, I mean, there's the first two things, I guess, that always come up. I mean, in my community, it's it's it's been around long enough and so forth. We have constant conversations, but it's about these two things. It's how do I use it? How does it practically apply to me? Like, what are the practical applications? Because people are sick and tired of seeing, oh, you can do this, you can do this, this is amazing. People are like, yeah, but I see that all day long, but like, what how does that make what do I do with it? And then ethical, ethical concerns. Like those are the two things that will be always I can all I I joke around, like when I do a a keynote or a speech or anything on stage, and I open the door for questions, I will put money on the first question being, but what about copyright and ethical use? You know, and which is right rightfully so. I just say that's a topic for another person and another day.
SPEAKER_01Good point.
SPEAKER_02But it's that, like there's a disconnect with what you know, open AI is saying, this is game changer, you know, we've launched operator, it controls your screen, it does, yeah, okay, you can book your flights. Okay, well, that means nothing to me, the everyday people.
SPEAKER_00Yep.
SPEAKER_02Like they're still a year behind. So that's just like they just want practical use cases. They just want to know, like, what what are this a thousand things that I've heard? What's the one thing that I can take and I can apply today to help move the needle forward? That's it. That's what I'm seeing. And they're frustrated and they're exhausted from hearing all this.
SPEAKER_00Is it because they're trying to keep up or what what is, or are they just they're like kind of scrambling and don't know, like don't have any stable data to attach to, oh, this is the direction?
SPEAKER_02They, you know, if you've ever been in a position where you know you should do something, you know you should, and every day you kind of try, but you can't get anywhere, that's how everyone feels. Everyone knows they should learn generative AI and they're trying, but every time they literally every time they look at their computer, I had someone say this to me last week at a meetup. I've been to a million conferences that have told me I need to create an AI assistant and I and how easy it is. It's so easy to do, but every single time, and this company has successfully adopted AI within every department of the huge company. She says, But every time I look at my computer, I know I should do this, and I know it's so easy. Every time I look at my screen, I don't know where to start. Like I have no idea what I should do. And there, it's just you, we've all been there. It's like a graphic designer looking at a blank screen in Photoshop saying, You need to design the most beautiful brand ever for a national brand. And everybody is waiting on this brand for you to design. Like, it's how do you do that? Like, what's the first step you take? And that's what the individual learners need is that that gap filled. So that's what I'm trying to do is just like be there to also comfort them and tell them that this is easy to learn and it's okay to feel overwhelmed.
SPEAKER_00If you're enjoying this episode and want to learn more about how to start using AI at work, we've made it easy for you. For just one dollar, you can have full access to the Chief AI Officer community, which will give you additional training, custom software, daily training calls on AI tools, using AI automations, getting more from your Chat GPT sessions, and the business of being an AI consultant. Simply go to chiefaiofficer.com forward slash insiders to accelerate your AI journey. Now, back to the episode. Do you have a process? I know we were talking about Story Brand earlier, and Donald's big on the three steps and that sort of thing. Do you have your three steps for a new user?
SPEAKER_02For a new user?
SPEAKER_00Like for somebody that's coming to you and it's like that that individual perhaps it's I I see the little icon, the company's allowed me to use it, but what do I do next?
SPEAKER_02No, I don't have anything like that. I should. I'm still in the formulating right now. What I'm doing is taking what I've taught in corporate America to teams.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And what I feel resonated most with those teams, and I'm refiguring those workshops into workshops to offer to my community. And so last week I taught how to build AI assistance through custom GPTs, Gemini Gems, and um anthropic claude projects. And so it's more right now what I'm trying, and I took it's really hard now that I'm a couple years ahead of everybody, as in as Donald Miller also says, is like it's really hard to read the label when you're inside the bottle.
SPEAKER_00Yep.
SPEAKER_02So taking what I'm doing, if if a new product is launched, I'm jumping into it and trying it and using it. Like I'm building assistance every day, every day, multiple. So to teach how what do my individual learners, how do I teach them that? It am I moving too fast? Am I am I not moving fast enough? I am I am I dumbing it down? Do I make them feel like idiots? Like I'm trying to figure out where that, like where the happy medium lies. And so I'm the workshops that I'm doing right now, I'm just collecting a bunch of data, asking, what can I do better? What did you learn? What were your takeaways? And so I'm just sort of forming that. I literally forgot to give people the Wi-Fi password at the last workshop. I over I'm thinking so much about content that it's just right now, and I'm doing them whenever I can because I'm also at max capacity. Yeah, yeah. And it's like I want to cater to them, but I also have a lot. So, you know, there should I wish I have how how many? Probably 40 AI assistants, but there's still only one of me human beings. And I I mean, I do have a twin sister. She does not do a AI. So yeah, it's like an avatar. Yeah, yeah. But the those avatars still, they just don't, they aren't exactly you.
SPEAKER_00Not yet. Yes. So you mentioned that you're building assistants with um custom GPTs, gems, and projects. Do you have one that you tend to lean on the most?
SPEAKER_02I build 90% of my assistants, my functioning assistants, meaning not my personal coaches or strategy coaches in with custom GPTs.
SPEAKER_00For those who are listening, there um you may not have even known about Gemini Gems or Claude Projects, but you may be familiar with custom GPTs. What has been the pros and cons of the other ones? Because I have a personal interest in that. Because I'm like you, everything I do is with custom GPTs as far as the assistants go.
SPEAKER_02Well, I, you know, Gem Gems, just for Google in general, I'm not a fan of Gemini itself, but I am a huge fan of Google products. Like they're notebook LM, deep research, like that stuff is not like my favorite products. But Gemini, and so I have not had any success in anything with AI assistants except for things I I did build a market research, like a deep market researcher assistant, and that worked wonderfully in Gemini Gems. Okay. Anthropic Projects is uh strategy coach. I um I a focus, a full focus, like Michael Hyatt's full focus strategy. I built a coach for full focus and like things that are conversational or strategy personal, I do in projects because I'm a huge fan of the way Claude has con uh has conversations. But when it comes to broad range capabilities, Chat GPT just for me, it's it's easier. I can do it immediately, and I just I have a system in place that it's just I can have it done in minutes. And so that's why I use I use it there.
SPEAKER_00It's great advice. So for those of you listening, you hear about all these new LLMs that come out. Deep research can't or Deep Seat came out uh last week, I guess. You don't have to know all of them. Um, find one that works for you. And for most people that I talk to that are professionals or power users, Chat GPT gets it done. So so don't feel like you need to be a master of all of these or even get the paid account for all of them. Find one that you work, Chat GPT, that you like, and you'll be good to go.
SPEAKER_02So please don't, that's one area where you don't need to feel overwhelmed because that's yeah, the only people that need multiple paid accounts are the people like us that are just like constantly testing and then you know, seeing what works for what, because it's just overkill unless you know specifically that this is what I need for this, this, and this. It's just it's to have multiple accounts is crazy.
SPEAKER_00So one of the things that you've mentioned a number of times is your community, and you're not talking about the the community that of the city that you live in. You've actually created an AI community.
SPEAKER_02It is the city that I live in. Um, and I only do in-person meetups at this point because I I'm a big, like as society moves forward with uh more and more capacity of working with machines, I feel strongly that our connection with humanity needs to be it will exponentially be more valuable to us. And so since the beginning, I have said you gotta show up. If you don't show up, um, then you're not really in it. And so I have only hosted in as far as the meetups are concerned, meetups are a little different than workshops. But um, yeah, so it is only I'm only trying to create an AI community within, you know, say 40 or 50 mile, you know, radius of my city. So there's no reason people can't drive to a meetup. Um, but yes, I just um rallying up people because first of all, we've decided that we want to be in charge of the narrative of how this plays out in society, or at least feel like we have a say, we are having a conversation about it. We may not end up being a part of that narrative, but at least we can have conversations that make us feel like we can relate to each other. We we are we are somehow, by having those conversations, changing the outcome of the way AI will be infused within our own lives. And so that the community is uh, I don't know, a way of bringing people together to navigate this transformation revolution together as well as a learning and collaborative space.
SPEAKER_00Do you encounter people when you do your meetups that you're you're like surprised at how advanced they are in the usage of it? Or is everybody kind of what's the the temperature in the room?
SPEAKER_02You know, even people that have been using AI for many years are I just someone messaged me the other day and said, this is the first time, you know, I've been using AI for years, and this is the first time I felt like an absolute beginner again.
SPEAKER_00Wow.
SPEAKER_02Uh so I think there, I also sort of lead with you have to keep a beginner's mindset, no matter what. You know, like I started this whole conversation. Someone I get called an expert all the time, and I'm like, Are you kidding me? Like, not an expert. I have a hard time believing anyone's an expert in generative AI. It's moving so fast. Um, so but there are some people that are, especially in machine learning, which we, you know, we we overlap in machine learning and deep learning and in the community meetups. But there's there are people that advance that are advanced that they still like they they sort of lead conversations as far as big picture societal impact and you know, ethics and uh, but they don't, yeah, they're they're doing demos and they're showcasing their work, but it you don't know they're super advanced. You know, we also we have people that come and not not in a negative way, but they they they have you know, we don't all agree, you know. We had a great conversation uh last week about whether or not the individual should be in charge of their costs of learning AI or whether the corporation should pay.
SPEAKER_00What was the outcome?
SPEAKER_02There was, you know, a person that strongly felt like the individual should be in charge of that, you know, responsibility and several people that they're they in management or were they Okay, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Okay.
SPEAKER_02Mm-hmm. But that we had such a great robust conversation around it. No arguments, a lot of conversations surrounding education and whether or not AI should be used in the classroom. Um, these are very controversial topics, and these are things that, you know, we we had, you know, conversations when the um child committed suicide after using character AI. These are conversations that need to happen. Yeah. But everyone's afraid to talk about them. Like you. These are society things, these are real things. So I think that, you know, yes, nobody wants to talk about the bad things and everyone wants to talk about the good things, but you really like you have to the kids, the kids, I say kids, I called them children at the meetup, but they are high school students spearheading a group at their high school to talk about the dangers of children, of children, of of the usage of um AI to generate porn. These high school kids are starting, like, this is just needs to be talked about. The more we talk about it, the more the awareness is there. Like, this is the reason for the community. However, it's it's a learning collaborative thing as well. But these these conversations just need to happen openly and not like uh, you know, oh my gosh, this is so embarrassing. It just we need to have these conversations.
SPEAKER_00So I'll be honest, I avoid those conversations because I don't have answers for them. Right. So I figure somebody smarter, somebody with more empathy like you will figure this out and I'll just I'll read it in a you know an article or something. So I think that's fantastic. How do you structure these communities? Because we we host something in Austin, I mentioned earlier, but it's more of a a social gathering. And there's we're we're moving into a themed environment, but it's been just like, is anybody interested? We're overwhelmed with the interest, but we haven't had a lot of structure. But it sounds like in your case, there's a topic to address, or there's how do you guys like what what is the agenda of this?
SPEAKER_02We have a structured daytime meetup and an unstructured evening meetup.
SPEAKER_00Do they run concurrently?
SPEAKER_02No, they have they're on different dates. Okay. They're each we have one per month. This the daytime meetup has demos, cut community conversation, and then networking. And then the evening meetup is like an Alcoholics Anonymous meetup.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02We sit around in a circle and we say, hi, I'm this and I use this. And that's, you know, the evening meetups are generally where the the uh more controversial topics are talked about. And it, you know, you know, and it's just I guess it's because it is more casual and there's no, it's literally called the unstructured evening meetup because there's just no, if you have, if you're struggling with something, if you if you need to find someone to help you with a topic or with building an app, you know, for that matter, you can meet up with someone there and and yeah, so it's sort of just and I manage and run and and make sure that everything is ready for those daytime meetups, but the evening meetups, the community is just like they do it. Like I mean, we I I put it on Eventbrite and stuff, but the community just takes it and runs with it. The the community is fantastic.
SPEAKER_00So are these people feeling some relief that you're creating community because they feel like they're out there in a vacuum doing this stuff?
SPEAKER_02Oh my gosh. I mean, people will say all the time, like, I found my people, I'm so grateful to have found my people. It's huge relief. You've you no one wants to journey along any anything alone. You know, I I went through a terrible divorce when, you know, 20 years ago, and I journeyed, I made that journey by myself. And for a full year, I was really a hermit, isolated in a house. And I, you know, that was a very difficult time. And if you're trying to journey this along by yourself, like you don't want to be alone. Like, even if you're struggling, you want to know that other people are struggling as well. And so community, and like I said, I I feel strongly that humanity like needs each other right now. I I hate that now more than ever.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02But humans need humans, and I am more introverted than anyone would ever guess. And during COVID shutdown, I was like, Yes. I was like, hallelujah. I don't have to see people. I I loved it. But now I I see my community and I feel like so grateful for them. So I think that we as a society are moving in that direction and we value each other and each other's time and more. And I think that this is it, I think community moving forward will be absolutely the most important and significant piece of the puzzle with AI. That's just me.
SPEAKER_00So in our chief AI officer world, we have we have an online community. And when we launched the certification program, we were like, oh, we need a community because people are going to need to connect. I had no idea how active it would be. Oh.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_00And it's like I don't have to teach everything now. I go there to learn, which is pretty amazing. And I think this this idea, this concept for anybody listening, A, see if there's one in your city. And you host yours on Eventbrite. I think we use Party Full as an app, but find one. And if there's not one, like what did you do to get started with this and in your community?
SPEAKER_02I just threw it out there and said, Hey, where's my people? And a lot of people say, How do I start my community? And I just say, like, have coffee with a couple people and throw it out there and say, Where's my people? They will come. Like it will happen.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I think that's huge.
SPEAKER_02Other people have started like the AI in. I think that's kind of a trendy thing to do. But yeah, just like if you just throw it out there and say, Where's my people? It doesn't have to be any structure at all. For the first like three or four months, we just met and networked.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02We didn't have anything structured.
SPEAKER_00And now you I like this idea because we do the nighttime thing that's just really, you know, get to know each other kind of thing. Um, but the thing that's missing is that structure that you do during your daytime. And I like that idea of um having both, not trying to blend the two. So, for those of you listening, if you're not plugged into something, online communities are great, but being able to know that there's other people in your own city where you're able to go and hey, like I'm gonna be at the Starbucks, you want to meet me and I wanna show you some new stuff I Did it's only going to encourage, and what I've seen is that by being together, like you can't keep up with it by yourself.
SPEAKER_02No.
SPEAKER_00And knowing, like, like me asking you, well, what's what do you what do you think about gems versus projects versus because I haven't had time to build a bunch of gems or projects. So it allows you as a learner to compress your learning curve because, oh, you're interested in this topic. Tell me all about it. So I don't have to go and start from scratch.
SPEAKER_02Mm-hmm. Yeah. It's it's I still tell people like it's the way to feel like you're doing something every month to keep you accountable in your journey. It'll allow you to learn a little bit, you know, it'll allow you to connect with people to see where they are. People make there's businesses that have started from people meeting at the community.
SPEAKER_01Yes.
SPEAKER_02Opportunities are had, like even side gigs are started, apps are built. Like this is a whole ecosystem that's happening. And and you don't know until you get you just get the people together. They make the the magic happen. You just get them together. And I've had all of my opportunities, which is why I don't do any marketing. I nothing. It's like all of my opportunities have come based on a you know, somebody connecting me with something in my community. In 10 months, in 10 months with zero marketing whatsoever, 688 people came through a community meetup. And we are a small, you know, big, small town here. Um, and that's with a lot of fear and anxiety about AI, a city that's not, you know, actively encouraging or adopting. Uh the people showed up. Almost 700 people. We had 26 states, like six different countries represented because they happen to be here visiting, but who cares? That's a detail. But yes, so like they they want this. They want they want a community, they want it. And so you build your community. And if you're a marketing person, you don't need anything else. That's your engine. That is your marketing engine. That's all you need.
SPEAKER_00Guys, I I think that this is uh something that is really worth paying attention to. Learning this stuff and listening to podcasts is great and watching TikToks and YouTube's or whatever. But the connecting with other people, like, well, how are you doing this thing? Right? Like, it's almost like you've got uh not even a large language model, but an actual human to talk to, which can give you answers, which is much better.
SPEAKER_02Um and to say, like, I don't know, we I think, and this is one thing that I did with my corporate like early on, that I was like, this is this is a game changer. I I hate that too, but it's a yeah, genius is um sharing your wins. Like win sharing is hugely beneficial and fail sharing, but when sharing. So in corporate teams, you know, we can sit at our computers and computers and write an amazing prompt that gives us the best output and we can be super excited about it. Where does that benefit anybody unless you tell somebody this is what I did and this is how I did it? So if you're an individual, solopreneur, working from home, like all of these scenarios where you're really siloed, where do you get to like share that and have that conversation with? And and so sharing that with a community and just saying, I did this and it worked really well. Well, that person will inevitably say, Oh my gosh, that reminds me of this that I did. And just that exchange moves the needle enough for the following week, month, or whatever to get you keep you going.
SPEAKER_00And I think that, you know, I routinely I'm like, oh, I'm not gonna mention that because everybody knows that. But they don't.
SPEAKER_02No, they don't. Yeah, I do that too. I know what you're saying.
SPEAKER_00So I think that's uh another benefit to being around people is that you don't understand how much you know until you start talking to others about the subject and they're like, tell me more.
SPEAKER_02And you're like, That's such a good point.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. That is you know, there's a few things that um I guess we'll call them theses that have uh developed.
SPEAKER_02Did you say thesis or theses?
SPEAKER_00I usually correct that, but yes, theses. I don't know what the plural of thesis is.
SPEAKER_02I've got more I heard theses and I was like, oh, okay.
SPEAKER_00Change of topic.
SPEAKER_02Not an expert on that.
SPEAKER_00You know, I what one of the theses, one of the a thesis that I hold is um, and I shared it with you before we started recording, and that was that people misunderstand, they think, oh my gosh, I have to prepare for some huge pivot in my career. And what I tell them is, no, all the career experience you bring, that's what it's not you versus AI, it's you with AI. Like that's that's the secret sauce. And do you have any kind of do you have a thesis that you hold around um things that you've kind of said, you know what? I don't hear a lot of people talking about this, but but I think that it's relevant and it it's it's accurate about the the environment like the zeitgeist of generative AI and business.
SPEAKER_02I I'm on board not to hijack your theses. I'm on board with you. Um, and I'll take it in a little bit of a different angle. Uh a lot of times we have retired people, retired folk, they call them retired folks, yeah, come into the workshops and come into the meetups and they say, Oh, I'm I'm gonna set the bar, I'm gonna set the age bar higher here, or they say, I'm just I'm just here to kind of, I'm the old guy in the room. Here, I I'm learning and I'm observing that the more work real world experience you have in in in life, in work, um the more traumatic experiences you've been through and navigated through, the better you are with utilizing generative AI capabilities to the fullest extent of possibility because communication, critical thinking, creativity, all of these things are only learned and achieved through living, uh living experiences. And I'm like you, um, I think that it does not replace your career, your job, or whatever. If you can find a way to utilize these these things you've learned and what you understand and the big picture you and then utilize that with generative AI, you you are setting yourself up for success. So I believe that the retired folk that jump in or the people that have reached a certain level of success in their career, they tend to say, oh, those young kids, they they adopt this tech so fast and they learn so fast. And it's with generative AI, it's a paradigm shift with tech because being able to clearly communicate to generative AI is is it changes results being average to results being extraordinary. And the and I have two, you know, two college students, and they we don't know how to communicate clearly until we have learned criticism and learned how to take, you know, or learned how to direct people. And so this, and I'm going, you know, a little bit more probably into detail than you wanted, but like I think that what most people think is that the young kids adopt generative AI and know how to use it. They know how to use Chat GPT and they know how to pick up the tools and build an app. But when it comes to getting extraordinary results with generative AI, you're talking the difference between pumping out a blog post versus getting like incredibly good prediction analysis strategy. The people that are really great at the career field that they're in or have lived a lot of life and understand how to, you know, communicate well and they use generative AI way better and understand how to utilize it way better, just jumping right into the tech than the the young tech savvy kids that are coming right out of college. So that's what I would how I would answer that question is yeah, and I I love the the retired folks that kind of say, oh, I'm just I'm just trying to keep my brain sharp, and I'm like, you're gonna have a million-dollar company in a year because your brain is is sharp, you know. And I love that they're still learning this.
SPEAKER_00I think that's an interesting point because that and uh and an easy assumption. If there was a new technology out there, most folks would would assume that it's the more tech savvy of the group that are going to get the most benefit out of it. But my interpretation of what you just said, and I've agree I'd never really considered it you know, externally before, was that it boils down to you having the life experience to know what to ask it, right? To get that nuance out of it rather than just you know, crank out a thousand blog posts on a certain topic. It's huh, if this life situation occurs or your understanding of how human dynamics work because of your career, because of your age or whatever, you are able to get into deep water with the models a lot faster with stuff. It's great that you know, as a marketer, you know, you can appreciate, oh, that email sequence is written. It's not 100%. I'm gonna go back, but I don't have to start from scratch.
SPEAKER_02I say, like, the people, like the people jumping out of college, um, they know they want the fire, right? They know they want the fire, but the people that have been in the career for a while, they know they want the heat, or they know they want the boiled water. And downstream is that like they the people jumping out of the they're trying to make the fire because they know fire is really, really important. They use Chat GPT to make the fire. But those that are out, they know they know what's past the fire, you know, and so they want the heat. That's what I've been trying to kind of like in my head, it's a it's a it's a pat it's past the original result, but it's what they and so to guide someone past or guide someone, guide a thing past, that's that's what the people with real world experience are doing with large language models versus what young minds not that they can't do amazing things and build amazing things and probably amazing companies, but the utilizing of actual natural learning or natural language. I think uh it right now this brilliance lies with the people that are really good at what they do.
SPEAKER_00I think that's very profound. This concept of, you know, action versus result. The seasoned individual who is using the tools isn't looking for the action. They're looking for the they're starting at the result. They know what they're looking for.
SPEAKER_02Yes.
SPEAKER_00Well, Angie, I'd I'd love to, this was a fantastic conversation. And there's thank you uh so many parallels between, even though we've never spoken prior to we got on this today, the the sympathetic nature of what we're both experiencing is um I'm I'm curious to ex to find that more out there in the world, more Angie's out there. This is fantastic.
SPEAKER_02As we navigate the world as the painful, the painful consulting world that we love.
SPEAKER_00We might have, we might have some uh we might have some tricks for you. Yeah, Angie, if people want to, if maybe they're they're um interested in doing their own uh meetup or whatever, they want to find out more about how you're delivering. How do people plug into what you're up to?
SPEAKER_02I mean, the very best way I'm not uh I have a create, don't consume mantra. Uh, the only social media that I exist on is LinkedIn. So that's the best place to find and connect with me. My website, you know, um, could be can be found at angiecarrol C-A-R-E-L.com. But really show notes. Just, yeah, just just connecting with me on LinkedIn and shooting me a quick message. I'm I try to be available to have conversations with people, and I I always try to say, I'm here to help. I really, like we were just talking about before, this there's plenty of room in this space. No one feels like anyone's stepping on toes or competitive, much like it is in the marketing industry, like generosity here to help, trying to help move, you know, literacy efforts forward and so forth.
SPEAKER_00So, yeah, LinkedIn would be the best way to so I mentioned that one of our chief AI officers is in your community. I'm gonna get you guys connected. Um, and he and I are doing business together. If I'm ever up there, I'm gonna make sure that I try and coincide that visit with one of those meetups, either the daytime or the nighttime, it'd be fantastic.
SPEAKER_02There's another podcast recording right there. We can do it right here in the studio.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's right. Very cool. Yeah, Angie, I really do appreciate the time. This is um uh you've given me a lot to think about. I like this, I'm gonna noodle on that concept about the the youth perspective versus the seasoned perspective.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um and seriously, I'd love to. If you want to see what we're doing in our community, it's a free community to join.
SPEAKER_02Um looks like I'm taking a trip to Austin.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, there's there's plenty going on here. And oh yeah, if that's gonna happen, um, I'd love for you to coincide it with when we do ours. Oh, yeah. For sure. Because as far as our community goes, and I'll this will be the the first reveal, I guess. So I I host that event in Austin with Rachel Woods from uh AI Exchange and Kurt Malley from Black Box Social Media. Both of them are tactically and strategically very strong at the application of generative AI. So we've had some success for anybody listening. Look, we were like, is anybody gonna show up to this meetup? We hosted the meetup and we had 40 or 50 people show up the first time. And they were, they were like, Can you believe the people that showed, not the volume, but the caliber of talent and interest that was there? And last night, uh the three of us got together to talk about, hey, this isn't this is something, like, let's do something with it. So the name of that event is going to be the uh the AGI meetup, but not because artificial general intelligence, it's because the focus of our event is artificial intelligence, go-to-market strategy and introductions, A G I, right? So um if you are gonna be uh if Austin, if there's a need for you to be down here for sure.
SPEAKER_02I mean, there's a need because I'm in the frozen tundra of the north.
SPEAKER_00What we got one tenth of an inch of snow last week.
SPEAKER_02So gosh, stop the presses.
SPEAKER_00So um, but that would be great. Yeah, and and honestly, if you are thinking about coming down to Austin, there's there's so many talented generative AI people here. If you let me know what like what would be um the ideal introduction for you, oh yeah, I guarantee your dance card would be very full.
SPEAKER_02Sounds like a strategic trip. Strategic work trip.
SPEAKER_00Just don't come down during South by Southwest. It's gonna be a little crazy and that's coming up. Fun, but crazy.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um, awesome. Well, so everybody, uh, please check the show notes. I think that you'd get a lot out of plugging into what Angie's doing, especially based on the conversation that we've had here. And um, with that, we'll see you on the next episode. Thanks, everybody.
SPEAKER_02Thank you so much for having me, Chris.
SPEAKER_00It was awesome. Thanks for tuning in to using AI at work. Don't forget to subscribe for more conversations about how to use AI at work. And a special thank you to our sponsor, Chief AI Officer, for empowering businesses with AI education and training. Visit their website for free AI readiness assessment and AI strategy guide to help you get started using AI at work. That's www.chiefaiofficer.com. Well, thanks to our producer, Evan DeSaulnier, for making this episode possible. Follow us on Twitter at the handle usingAI at work. And visit www.usingai at work.com for free resources to help you harness AI in your role.