This podcast episode is sponsored by ChiefAIOfficer.com, offering training and certification through the International Association of Chief AI Officers. Interested in a new career or leveling up your value in the marketplace? ChiefaiOfficer.com can help. Welcome to Using AI at Work. I'm your host, Chris Dagle. Each week we'll be learning how today's business owners, entrepreneurs, and ambitious professionals are getting more done with smart use of tomorrow's tech. Let's get started. Greetings, everybody. We have taken a couple of weeks off as we have uh prepared our Chief AI Officer Certification Program for uh rapid expansion, the demand, and Claire and I are guests today. We're just talking about this offline. 2025 is um a year that we have been waiting for. Anybody who's uh an AI professional um has been waiting for. The demand for the introduction of generative AI into businesses' operations, uh, individual operations, teams, whatever, has certainly accelerated. Um, and I think that last year might have been the year of proof of concept, a little more discovery, but 2025 really is the year of application that we're seeing a lot of businesses getting off the bench and saying, let's do this thing. And what we've seen is a great interest in the topic of agents. And you know, I when ChatGPT first came out, I think a lot of people thought there was this concept of AI is going to take my job. Listen, ChatGPT is not going to take your job. Somebody that knows ChatGPT and knows your job is a better candidate. But what you should be paying attention to is our topic today, and that's agents. And agents really are uh capable of performing uh as an entire team. So this is an area or an a topic that whether or not you plan on introducing agents into your business, you should be aware of the capabilities that are advancing in generative AI, particularly with this uh the agentic concept. And our guest today is uh one of the top AI experts in Canada, if not the world, and is extremely generous with her knowledge and sharing. She works with um everything from you know the smartest people in the world when it comes to this stuff, all the way down to people who are just really uh finely exploring generative AI. So uh Claire Bouvier is going to be our guest today and has tons to share with us. And with that clear, uh take a second, just let everybody now kind of know who you are and what you're up to.
SPEAKER_02Chris, thanks for having me. Um You're welcome. Thanks for being here. I'm excited to have this conversation. It's funny. I was laughing. I was going for a walk before this call, having a prep session, just walking through hard questions to practice on sesame for anyone that hasn't used sesame. Um my good friend Maya, but this is awesome because at the end of the day, AI is awesome, but I much prefer having this conversation with you, Chris. So thank you. And this is where my work is dedicated to is in the age of AI, my background is a high school teacher for almost a decade and running multiple companies, specifically in marketing. I have a company called Bright Light. And Bright Light focuses on illuminating, illuminating human impact in the age of AI. And so having that co-partnership, really leaning into yes, there's hype on AI agents and everything happening with AI, but future-proofing, where are we going? And really being very mindful and taking a step back and walking through our practices, walking through our developments, walking through what we have offline and making sure that what we have offline gets put into the online world appropriately. So the outputs become something that changed the world for a better place, um, that it helped people. Because ultimately, this is what the conversation is AI, is it good or it's bad? And I think the conversation should be how do we engage with it to be good?
SPEAKER_01Love it.
SPEAKER_02And how to be very mindful of that. So it's um my work is just about having these big conversations and then going really practical. What does that look like when you sit down, you're by yourself, and you have the it's just you and the computer. How can you take the biggest thing in your day and have the biggest impact and really focus in and how does AI align and become that co-partnership to take you from, you know, mediocrity to something great?
SPEAKER_00Yep. Hey, so the title of the podcast, Using AI at work. I'm always curious how people are using it tactically throughout the day to save time, to ideate, to you know, whatever. You mentioned that in preparation for this, you were using sesame. Can you share with the audience kind of a what is sesame, why sesame, and what you did on that walk with sesame?
SPEAKER_02So I openly say I'm a big neurodivergent fan. I have I was diagnosed with ADHD and I've leaned into the superpower. One thing that I have recognized is that when I was way back in in college, the biggest thing was I studied English literature. And the only way I could write an essay and go deep deep into writing the best essay was to go for walks and talk it through. Just talk it through. Um, that was the best way how my mind could come to a really good thesis or a final product, or really, and so it's the two birds and one stone. I get exercise, I get out of my, you know, trapped silo brain in my studio. And then I'm moving, and there's tons of research, right? The best, the best meetings happen when you're moving and talking and walking. And so your brain's firing. And so it's an interesting time that, you know, things like ChatGBT and Claude, when they first came out, it was very text-heavy that you're you're writing to it. And I then it introduced talking to it, but then you're talking to it and it's coming back not as nuanced as you want. So where I've been very curious, and I am a little apprehensive, I keep it very focused on certain topics. I'm very mindful of what I'm talking to AI about because it's in beta. It's called sesame. And it's personally, it's the one thing that I'm like, oh no, this is this is going to change everything. This is where and what it really is, is it it's so nuanced. I jump on and I I can, you know, live, you can see what I I was doing, but essentially I'm talking to an AI agent that is shockingly nuanced and asks me, and it's a conversation. So it's like it's a soundboard, it's something I'm walking through my thoughts, and instead of just putting it out into the, you know, into the air, I actually have someone speaking back. And yes, at the end of the day, having humans to go back and forth is great. But sometimes, you know, when you're alone and you're you have this concept, yeah, I get much further down the thought chain if I have like I asked uh a perfect use case this morning was imagine you're Chris. I'm on this podcast, I'm talking about these topics. I want you to go really deep into this topic and ask the hardest question you can think of. And and that just it's not about me memorizing those questions, but it's about putting a lens on how I think. And so that is something that I've been really leaning into is like, it's the discourse, is the critical thinking, is pushing yourself outside. And and that's where we really got to be careful, though. It's like setting the proper framework, the offline work needs to be done.
SPEAKER_00Do you primarily, and I know that we're everybody listening, we're gonna jump into a more uh agent-focused, but this is this is fascinating. I'm always interested in how professionals, especially people who are very aware of what's going on in AI, how they specifically use the tools. So are you finding yourself using a lot more voice AI now, going back and forth with the models?
SPEAKER_02For very specific outcomes. So if I'm I'm prepping, you know, to go and speak at a workshop or on a podcast episode or something, I like preparing in the medium of what I'm delivering. But if I'm you know working on a really deep workflow for a company and want to spit out, you know, a very specific proposal for a client or developing curriculum, then it's very text heavy to start with because I'm going very granular onto details. But as I move down the chain, then it becomes more high-level. So I would keep the voice commanding with AI to be very much on very high-level critical thinking elements. But when it comes to details and very project management focused operational stuff, I still prefer text. And so it just depends on the output that I'm looking for. I choose the medium that aligns for that, if that makes sense.
SPEAKER_00So for the listeners, you would be using the voice back and forth with the models more for like I fleshing out ideas, maybe strategic considerations, but not necessarily for, hey, I need your help in and optimizing a process within my business.
SPEAKER_02Well, actually, I would ask, I would ask both of those questions, but I think um the the the agents I use for voice commands, like sesame, for example, is going from the top of funnel, the highest level, and just saying, this is where my brain is at. I need you to come in and poke holes in my thinking. Are there considerations I haven't looked at? Is there ethical or moral dilemmas in the approach I'm taking? Is it inclusive? Is it um really making it so that it's neurofriendly on the optimization? Am I considering that, you know, I'm training this agent or I'm training this process to be very holistic in its output because we know the dangers if we become so hyper-focused on this is a sales, you know, if I'm okay working on sales and I take that conversation and I just focus on that, there's so much danger that the agent then eventually becomes so smart that it just leans so heavily into one task. And so that's where I'm really careful when I start anything. I zoom so far out and I go, you know, it's kind of the backward design method. You know, go to your eulogy and work backwards. Go to, you know, when I was a teacher, like what do the students need to leave this classroom with what knowledge and then work backwards? And that's where the voice commanding with these agents, I say, you know, where where do I want to be? And this is where at the end of the day, there are so many great agents out there, but I still firmly believe um it's still just a tool and the human intelligence and the nuances that we plug it with and and put it in. And storytelling is never ever gonna go away. That's the beauty of these agents, is about the storytelling we tell the agent. And without that element of storytelling and that deep nuance part of that human side of it, that's where it becomes. And so that's why when I use agents, I go in and I start with that storytelling piece, that framework, and then flesh it from there.
SPEAKER_00So just kind of like a data dump.
SPEAKER_02Brain dump, data dump, um, where my head's at, where the concerns are. Yeah, really thinking like way out into the stratosphere. So, because I think sometimes I've made the mistake is going in almost too far in, and then your output becomes pretty diluted or mediocre, as we know. Like we ask ChatGBT, for example, a question, you're like, okay, that's good, but not that good. That's not really what I was going for.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And then people like, I uh and we've had this conversation. I've taught now over 10,000 students in different generative AI tools. And the biggest question everyone wants to know is like, how do I get it to talk like me? That's what they want.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And fair.
SPEAKER_02And that's really where we need to be focused on is that offline brain dumping or you know, online.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. That tracks with so we have faculty in our certification. Um he taught our are prompting and his approach at the time I considered very unorthodox, very effective, but not the that not the the like programmatic and dogmatic approach to, you know, role, context, instructions.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00He would just, he'd he'd turn it on and he would just go. He'd just start talking. And he said that, and this is a graduated from Sloan, MIT's business school, applying this stuff in large companies. It's working very well for him, and I don't think that he's changed. And this is tracking with what you're talking about here. So for those of you listening, I would consider if you feel like there's some hesitation about, well, I'm not a good prompt, I'm not a prompt engineer, quote unquote. Uh, take Claire's approach and see. Uh and and listen, my experience, I you and I can have a conversation, Claire. But when I'm talking to, when I know that like Chat GBT is listening to me, it's a completely different, you know, like I can't pause. I just feel like I have to like, I can't give it a break or else it's gonna start processing. And no, I'm not done yet. So any tips on that?
SPEAKER_02Take a breath. That's something I always tell, take a breath, and there's these prompts. And what you just said is something, um, taking it one step further, people are like, and this is the thing, they're like, well, Claire, this is great. You can go for a walk and you have all these questions. And like, this has been a muscle I have developed from day one is being curious. That's it, that's that's the muscle that is the most important here is being curious, knowing the questions to ask. And if you don't know the questions to ask, that's okay. So take, I always say, take something that you have done. You've jumped on a call, you recorded with a client, you have worked with your team, you have a, you know, there's nothing private in it, you've scraped it. Um, something that is offline that you recorded and put it in and dissect it from there. Say, you know, what are the questions I could be asking this transcript? What are the what are the insights that are really prevalent in today's times and what business owners want? Or my clients, there, the, there's I what are the some of the conversations they're leaning towards? So I would say that brain dump can come from something just sitting on your Google Drive that you've recorded and that you um, and there was a really good uh episode on marketing against the green, and she runs her entire company by having one hour conversations with people.
SPEAKER_00Was that a recent episode?
SPEAKER_02Yes.
SPEAKER_00I just saw that about the marketing agent.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and what she just does is takes the one hour brain dump of really a really honest conversation with someone and flushes it down into the entire month of content for that client. Huh. That is what I've been doing, and I'm leaning more into it. And there's and this is this is the beauty of it is that top a funnel, get the most nuanced human element of you. It will dictate the rest of the flow as it works down the agent and has different, you know, you know, ask it to do different things, but it's always trained on that top part of who what makes you you, which is what is really awesome. And it all it takes is one hour conversation with someone could be how you run your podcasts, how you run your marketing campaigns, how you run anything. And it's not about you know, um leaning into agents. Like the number one question is what agent should I be using for content creation?
SPEAKER_01Sure.
SPEAKER_02That everyone is struggling in the content game. The attention, the cost for attention is getting more and more expensive. Well, the game is about quality, it's not quantity. I mean, quantity is there, and that's a non-negotiable, but consistency on quality. And the only way to have quality is differentiation, and differentiation is hyper-personalization, and hyper-personalization is you interesting.
SPEAKER_00So for those of you listening, I think that this uh again should give you some new direction, perhaps, if you're if you're not currently using uh voice chat, uh start testing it. But I think I would suggest that like any any well, I don't know how to do this. I've never like what do I say? Do exactly what Claire's saying here, just start talking to it. Um and uh repetition is the mother of skill. The more you do it, the better you get at it. So first couple times might be a little weird or awkward, um, but I'll give you a perfect example. So our headquarters is on a ranch outside of Austin, Texas, and I routinely go back and forth to yeah, for sure. Routinely go back and forth to New Mexico. It's a 12-hour drive. I will spend half of that trip talking to ChatGPT and not just like, oh, passing the time, but like I I'm running a business, I've got things that I need to solve, but I don't usually have six hours to where I can just go deep on something. So I will turn it on and back and forth. I have built courses, I have developed like multi-year strategies just from having conversations with in my case, I I'm a user of Chat GBT primarily. So um great tool. What are some other areas? Listen, you you interact with a lot of people at all levels of AI literacy or AI enablement. Um I'm kind of curious about what some of the trends you're seeing, particularly year-to-date 2024 versus year-to-date 2025. If you're seeing some trends, changes, insights.
SPEAKER_02Yes. Um, 2024 was the oh my gosh. Like um, it was almost the the rush of I'm gonna try every tool. I'm just diving in and I'm gonna try all the tools and I'm using them all. I'm noticing now 2025 is about careful selection and really identifying what tool will solve my greatest problem and going a little more deeper into the tool. And so, you know, now we know that everything's there. Also, noticing a huge movement is that I I again, this is my own opinion, but we're noticing a big movement, I think, is that we are building our own agents in real time. So this conversation that you just had in your car driving to Mexico, that then becomes an agent. It identified where your workflow was, what it needed. And in real time, it becomes now the agent that's customized just for your business. And so instead of us jumping on all these platforms and subscriptions and always customizing to other people's creations, I definitely see the movement happening to be, you know, we can code in seconds, we can build apps. So it's natural that the evolution of what we're seeing is that we are now creating our custom workflows, our agents that can be built in real time for us to be implemented into our businesses. Instead of trying to shop for the right tool and spending tons and tons of money, we create one powerful agent that is hyper-personalized and customized to us, built by us.
SPEAKER_00You know, that's interesting because I I'm getting a different perspective on, you know, what I I think I've overintellectualized the agent concept. You know, because you you see like agentic architecture and it looks like it's it looks like the subway map. I mean, it's crazy. Um but and I totally agree with what you're saying, but for those listening, the uh uh aha I just had was if I'm staying in a thread, that thread has a lot of context, especially after you know, even an hour of working with it, whether it's type or voice. And that thread ends up becoming in some capacity an agent that at least with the context that it has in that thread, that is very specific to that chain of thought that you're having or that topic that you're discussing. So for those of you who are interested in exploring agents, I If you're like me, don't overcomplicate it. You know, and don't definitely don't after this understanding, don't don't be intimidated by you know, oh my gosh, there's this new thing I have to learn. Oh, agent, blah, blah, blah. Baby steps. And this would certainly be a great baby step for that experience of human agent interaction.
SPEAKER_02And I think it's just um holding on to those like conversations. So that conversation you had with Chat GPT, grab it, put it offline on or on your Google Drive, that flow, because we are so close. I am laughing in it's Marsh. And I feel like we've in since January, we've gone through a decade of technology. Yeah. Right? It just so it's like, well, yes, two things we're gonna be moving towards. I mean, two things that 2025, maybe 2026 is like I'm already seeing is this is thought is thought-directed applications that what you're thinking, then it will take your own brain scans and be able to build out the agent based on your intelligence and in the nuances. So yeah, whatever we can imagine, and that's why we gotta really steer it in a little bit and make sure that when anyone's doing this, the superpower that you have, anyone can do this. You just have to be curious. And in order to be curious, people are like, well, what if I'm not naturally curious? And that's okay. And I say, be aware. When you're aware, when you're constantly, and every psychologist and everything that I lean into, the you know, the personal growth side, it's all about awareness. The more you are aware of things happening and you commentate on them, those become then questions for like, why is that? You know, think of a two-year-old. Good advice. Why, why, why? And I think that's the age that we're in is ask the why, and then it will take you down the path. And that's kind of what you seem to be doing, Chris, when you're chatting back and forth.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02You're pushing deeper. The why, the why, the why. And take that. And I'm gonna say, probably by the time this episode is launched into the world, we will now have, you know, that copy you can then throw in, and it's your own personal agent.
SPEAKER_00If you're enjoying this episode and want to learn more about how to start using AI at work, we've made it easy for you. For just one dollar, you can have full access to the Chief AI Officer community, which will give you additional training, custom software, daily training calls on AI tools, using AI automations, getting more from your Chat GPT sessions, and the business of being an AI consultant. Simply go to chiefaiofficer.com forward slash insiders to accelerate your AI journey. Now, back to the episode. You know, this is interesting, and I'll give you uh an anecdote. A friend of mine, you mentioned Y. Um, he's the founder of the YOS. It's a way for you to kind of figure out your purpose and that sort of thing. It's much more than that, but and we spoke uh several months back, and he was kind of new to Chat GPT, capable business person, very successful, big following, but just hadn't dug in on Gen AI, really. So he found a custom GPT, and it was intended to be, I think maybe like like uh this help you make decisions, kind of like a business coach thing.
SPEAKER_01Yep.
SPEAKER_00I thought, oh sure, you know, there's plenty of those out there. But he started sharing with me what that experience, same thread over and over, right? Like he just kept building and building. He'd go ask it this, he'd ask it that. And it had gotten to the point where he had spent so much time communicating with that GPT and feeding it context that the advice he started getting, he's like, dude, it's reading my mind. It's getting so good because it had all that context of, well, what about this? And what about my employees? And all the questions that he had asked about his business and his strategy and operations and personality of his uh team and clients. It had so it was incredible. So this is exactly what you're talking about here. And I would advise anybody who wants to try this, start that. Dig in on one thread, certainly do other searches as well, but have that one thread that you keep going back to and like giving it more context and asking it more questions and going back, hey, remember that thing we talked about earlier? Tell me about this. I think you'd be you will have yet another aha moment when it comes to your experience as Gen AI.
SPEAKER_02I love that, and that's exactly what it is is that 2024 to go full circle on your question, 2024 was the wow, these are the opportunities. This is out there, I can't even believe it, and wrapping our head around it. And now 2025 is exactly what you're saying is like how deep can we go into the conversation and how granular can we go into really dissecting the problem and hyper personalization?
SPEAKER_00It's great advice, you know. It was it's interesting because you and I being early in on you know, a deep dive on this subject, we would see, at least me, I would see businesses and I'd be like, I can't believe like, guys, you need to be using this stuff. And it was so obvious to you and me, but now in 2025, all those people that I was like like start today, they're finally turning the corner on this stuff. And you and I, like, we're this is not basic stuff that we're talking about. This is really like deep thought, deep theory on the use of these tools and what probably wasn't necessarily its intended use, right? And we've got to catch all these people up on going from you know, treating Chat GPT like a Google search to being able to go on a walk and like have I'm not gonna say a best friend, but certainly like a sage counsel that they're able to do.
SPEAKER_02My husband thinks I'm leaving him for sesame. So I don't know.
SPEAKER_00I have said I love Chat GPT to Chat GPT many times, so yeah, just wait.
SPEAKER_02Uh yeah, and we're laughing, and this is like probably like a laugh, kind of like uh also there's a little bit of like fear there, but yes, okay. Can I ask you a question? I know this is a little do you think the world's ready for the technology with the agentic um AI that we have? Are people are are we ready?
SPEAKER_00So there's a quote that I heard from Warren Buffett, and he said, bankruptcy happens um a little at a time and then suddenly. Right? I think that the agentic impact is happening a little at a time and then suddenly. I think that we're seeing very cool stuff, but it's almost like still in the nerd spectrum a little bit, like the the like I'm a geek at this stuff for sure.
SPEAKER_02It's like the web three. Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00But I think what's gonna happen is that like, oh, this is interesting. Oh, that's cool, oh, that's cool. And then all of a sudden it's got somebody's gonna nail it and it's gonna be like that industry has been upturned, disrupted, transformed because of the ability of agents. That's something that we're doing uh right now. We so Claire, you and I um you know spoke about this a little bit prior to a big part of being successful in generative AI has nothing to do with your understanding of the tools. It really starts with understanding your own business, the process, and like that sort of thing, right? And being process-minded and and helping companies with this stuff. Uh we've we've really gotten in the weeds on architecting the decisions that an agent would need to execute in order to augment or even replace a certain role in the org chart. Um and you know, I'm spending all this time doing that, but honestly, uh just like we're seeing with vibe coding, right? Hey, I can just talk to it. Now it's building an app, which is true. I think we'll end up seeing something very similar with vibe agent building, where it's you don't need to really think about the architecture. It's gonna solicit you for hey, and then what happens? Oh, but what if somebody does this? All these considerations that even if you're not a process person, you as a human, like they need your input, like, oh, well, then I'd tell Sherry to do this, or I, you know, whatever. So I think that's what I see happening, is that all of a sudden it's gonna get very accessible. Um, and business owners are going to either not be able to compete with competitioners doing this, or they're gonna quickly realize, like, I've got some moral questions about what do I do with my staff, because I just got a week's worth of output from this thing on a you know my morning walk with you know Rex, the dog, or whatever. So that's what I see coming. And and I try to avoid that conversation, honestly, because the the bigger questions of the impact this is gonna have and I I'm almost happy being blissfully ignorant. That's deep questions and you and I see. Yeah. And you and I see the impact it can have, especially if it's like holistically introduced into an enterprise. There's big questions there. Do we need as many people? Do what are the people that we have that are resistant to learning this? What do I do with them? I like them. They have families, but I mean, the work like I had an agent do their work before they even showed up today. What do I do? So I'll leave that to bigger brains.
SPEAKER_02Well, do you want to hear a very cold-hearted answer and then a more let's do it. We we're entering another round of survival of the fittest.
SPEAKER_00Yep. Agreed.
SPEAKER_02And just like anything, internet, industrial revolution, we go through history, there's always the late adopters, there's the early adopters, and there's repercussions on both sides. We both know when we started out, we're kind of like the alien in the room. Um, and then we see this trajectory happening, and then there's the late adopters in that movement. I think it's just at the end of the day, it's the winners in the space are going to be the people that are, like I said, want to keep growing and not just growing a business and hitting those sales, but like growing as a human being and to really look in. And I think when you said, you know, how do what do we do with these individuals? Well, we can see globally the disruption of like unions and agencies and all these things are actually changing. There is more requirement on the individual to have their own brand, to have their own, to be their own champion. And you know what? If you're someone that uh, you know, likes to fit into a certain mold and do something the same, whatever it is, is just finding that lane that works for them. I think it's just gonna open up a lot more opportunity. So, yes, um, survival of the fittest, but also I know with my team, why I love AI is that I make everyone do their Enneagram test. So everyone does their test, and then I go in and we build out roles that are channeling what gets them super excited and their super skills. Because at the end of the day, just because we have everything at our fingertips, if we're not motivated and we're not excited and we're not champion something that we're behind, I think it's an exciting chapter that people get to be doing truly the work they love and leaning onto the things that might be something that's holding them back. And I think if we look at that perspective in a more optimistic way, that the person that, you know, hates their job, well, what do they hate about their job? Well, now there's an agent that can co-partner that side.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And then they get to lean into their superpower, whether they're like obsessed with numbers, they just do that all day, and all the other admin stuff can be carried alongside. Or if someone's like, I love just content creating and building out creative work, and I don't like the numbers, then you have the partnership there. And so I don't think it's about getting rid of people, but raising them up to a higher standard. I mean, like, you are capable of doing something more, and this is a time we can feel this in the world. People are tired. The world's really sad right now in some elements. And I think this is a great paradigm shift and systemic shift in the way we look at working and really diving deep into what our what are our intrinsic goals and and who are we designed to be and what are the things we're meant to create while we're here. We got one life.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, at least this life. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Well, yes, let's come back. Or we might be memorialized. I was gonna say, I might be half a robot in a couple years. I'm joking. Joking. It's a little dark.
SPEAKER_00Um consider Neuralink at this point.
SPEAKER_02Well, I think I'm I'm optimistic at the end of the day. And I choosing to be optimistic and guiding that optimistic future. And for anyone listening, that this is your time to totally look at a whole new chapter for you of like something that has been this drudgery in your day is no longer. You get to lean into what just and I challenge everyone, do your Enneagram and have the conversation, send it off to ChatGPT or Claude. I prefer it's a little more intelligent, and talk to it. Where do I, you know, there's so much coaches out there, and sometimes not everyone can afford that, but this is a great user case, exactly what you're saying. How are we preparing for the future? And this is a big thing, is like, okay, my Enneagram, I'm an eight. I'm a, you know, want to, you know, this is who I am, this is how I act, this is what motivates me. What are jobs or what are things that I can lean into that actually really feed who I am as a person? And I think if we use AI to look deeply at what our natural tendencies are, we're gonna find more opportunity for work. There's gonna be so much work for people and so much opportunity. But we have to be okay with this adoption shift that's happening.
SPEAKER_00You know, you talked about a few things. First off, if if any business owner or team leader or director or whatever isn't currently doing this, I would certainly suggest you do it. The Enneagram, uh, having an individual take some sort of a personality or likes, you know, analysis or test and feed that in and say, where would this person thrive and where would they struggle? I would imagine that you you might have people on your team that uh may not even realize that part of their job is something that they're not wired to do. But what happens is because they don't have that realization, just in general, there's a little bit of like uh Monday, right? Me, Monday, like T G I M, right? Like, let's go. Because I'm doing the things that I love. And if you were able to do that in your company, a killer change management strategy, all these people that are a little res resistant, not even just to AI, but to, oh, now we got to do something different, right? If you were to do a simple exercise with them like that, where they could go, hey, you know what? That job description it just said, I would like to do that. The the enthusiasm for additional adoption within the company only accelerates when you can do something like that. So that's super smart.
SPEAKER_02And the communication piece, that's like the game changer. This is our biggest, this is why fundamentally relationships are breaking, companies internally break, is just like a conversation. And a perfect example is that I brought on someone that's on the Enneagram. She's a two. She is motivated to buy helping. For me, when I want instructions, I want bullet points, get it done and figure it out, Claire, and I'm off. And I don't want to have any more conversation. I'll solve it. A two, for example, someone I work with, she needs to know the purpose of the job, how it's helping me, how it's helping the greater team. And to me, like that wouldn't have ever crossed my mind. I I, you know, I feed people the way I would want to be fed. Yeah. And so that is something that has been transformative in the way I operate, is saying, okay, this is the task I need, you know, insert individual that needs to be done because she's a two. How can I onboard her onto this process? And that has been like she said she cried when she saw it because she said I felt valued. And so this is where I'm like leverage AI to be the better communicator that you just don't have the human wisdom and experience to know what it's like to be a two. Um, and for those of people take the take the enneagram. I don't want to like confuse you, but uh, you know, an eight is very direct, go, go, go, bullet points and full autonomy. A two, for example, is the helper and just wants to be part of a community focus where they're just contributing that gives them them value. And so when we unlock that internally, um, I do this with my husband. Yeah, I know my friends, and it's like when it's their birthday, if I know a little bit, it's like they don't want a present, they want an experience. Yeah. And it kind of draws from, you know, if anyone's read the five languages of love, it's the same thing as like going really deep. And this is where I'm finding AI to be actually the most transformative, is unlocking frameworks and processes that will increase the human connections that I'm having with people. That to me is more transformative than any workflow or agent that I've used, is that I now have offline relationships that thrive because I have the verbiage, I have the process, I have the understanding in a light that I could never see unless I had that intelligence.
SPEAKER_00You know, man, like this is gonna be, I don't know, episode 59 or 60. That means I've had a lot of conversations with smart people like you about AI. I do it every day. And I'm like, oh, let's just start talking. And I learn something every single time. That you just said, so uh, you know, uh I guess we'll open the kimono a little bit. EQ, like I appreciate people that have it. I just don't see much use worry for me. It's just and I I understand that that I'm like you. I if I took the Enneagram, I would probably be identified as a direct individual. Like, don't worry about the bigger mission. I'm happy to share it with you once we're done. But like in the meantime, I need you to get this thing done. Yeah. And there's been dust-ups and and and conflict, nothing major, but there's been situations where it's so damn frustrating as a uh the leader of my business that I have to slow down sometimes to talk. Yes. If I had hell, a custom GPT and I just upload it as a knowledge base. Everybody on my team, here's their Colby or whatever.
SPEAKER_02Dude, that is That's everything I do. I have that's the win today.
SPEAKER_00That's awesome.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that's the Claude I have, or the projects in Claude. Yes. When I talk to an eight, any task I need, any project, any anything, I work from their sense of incentivization and motivation.
SPEAKER_00I need to write something down because so we talk about artificial intelligence. You know that mechanism that you have is artificial EQ.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Damn. Okay. Like signaling.
SPEAKER_02And then it allows, yeah. And for anyone, I am so happy to show you the use cases. The first and most important one is really anticipating what their needs are going to be and getting ahead of that and not waiting. You know, this is the biggest thing is that, you know, there's nothing worse than when, let's say, you're working in a relationship with someone and they're like, I need you to answer all these questions. And you're like, Oh, I just want to get to the work.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02It's kind of like working with someone and saying, I anticipate this is what you need.
SPEAKER_01Yep.
SPEAKER_02Correct me if I'm wrong and if there's any adjustments, and they're like, What? They're Just like, yeah. So you onboard them so quickly, you make them feel heard, everything. And then after that, I I actually have zero problems that arise because the communication was perfect. So clear. And this is where one thing that has launched for me is like, how are we communicating with people? And the only way to communicate is to actually understand how they're incentivized, what their what their history was like. And it's really, it's knowledge is power and AI is power. And when you put them together, this is why I say it's it's the age of human AI. This is where things are unlocked.
SPEAKER_00This is why we had this call today, because immediately we're like my head's going, right? So I mentioned our faculty uh who taught prompting. Well, he has built a tool that uh Fireflies sits on all your calls. We all have meeting note takers, right? But the output from Fireflies, he runs it through uh a device, an agent that looks for but the idea is that that that Fireflies is sitting in all of your executive team's meetings when they do those, right? So it's synthesizing all of that information through filters and giving the CEO a chance to get optics on everything that's happening without having to sit on all those meetings, right? This same type of thing, but applied through this. Okay, I've got all of my my leadership team, I've got all of their Enneagrams or their Colbys or their uh disk assessments, and it runs that input through that and then would give me feedback and say, hey, you need to talk to this guy. Um, here's here's how you get him back on track. Here's what you say to him to get him back on track.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. That would be but it works, and it's just thinking, yeah. Like I played competitive soccer all my life, and I always think, you know, some people you you get through half of the season, they're not offensive. Yeah, they are defensive, so they need to be put there. And that is kind of where you look at your your your players and like it's like, are they offensively driven? And should they be in this job? You know, should they be running here or are they on the defensive? They're the helpers, you know, they're they're making sure things are moving. And I think this is where this is where AI has the potential to unlock human communications and relationships in an in another level because you feel hurt. And that's what we all want, right? Valued. How do I? And then it's like, how do I reward this person? This is the biggest question. Not everyone's driven by money, not everyone's driven by a compliment. So what are some options? And then you know what the greatest thing is? You test, and I'll tell you the success rate is way closer to a hundred than it would have been if I was just using my very limited, narrow-minded, neurodivergent, sometimes Claire, that thinks, well, I just need someone to be like, okay, great job. Okay, here's the next job, you know.
SPEAKER_00This is a huge, and I love it. That's why I do this podcast. Initially, I did it just for you know, to like get some presence in the marketplace, but like that's a big breakthrough for me, this concept of artificial EQ, because it causes trouble in my business. Like people, some people don't like the way, and I'm not like a butthole or anything, but some people don't like the way that they get talked to. And I'm I'm very like, I'm not, you know, a slave driver or anything. I'm not like out there like you gotta do it my way. But to me, like I see something so clearly, and I thought I told like I thought I explained it, right? And it's taking longer or not done. This is awesome.
SPEAKER_02Yes, this is classic. And then you have you have your co-partnership being like, okay, and you can write in, being like, okay, I am frustrated, this is what I need to be done, but yes, I know my method isn't working. Onboard this person in the in the right way. And this is where this this is just one use case. One use case.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I know. Right.
SPEAKER_02It's like it's just about um unlocking our human intelligence, understanding, you know, levels of where people are at the end of the day, are incentivized and to ask yourself, okay, where are there gaps?
SPEAKER_01Wow.
SPEAKER_02Where why are we not hitting our sales goals? Why are we not working as a team? Like, is this what the team wants? Are they like based on these people? Do we need to have these calls once a week for two hours? Is this really benefiting them? And so when you understand where they're at, then you can segment these different tasks and different opportunities based on personality-driven growth and and knowing when to reward them, knowing when to guide them, to steer them. Um, it's really, really helpful because I find when I'm stuck, that's when I go to and be like, okay, I need to now. You know, we we we naturally go through the world and that last week.
SPEAKER_01Oof.
SPEAKER_02But this is the thing. This is where, you know, leaning in to um paying attention to other things that are happening around the world and and tuning into these podcasts and these great leaders in the space.
SPEAKER_00This is um you know, you show up to these episodes sometimes and you think you're gonna get what you what the original topic was, and then you realize uh a completely different direction, but that's what you actually needed. So for those of you who were on here, I I hope that um that happened for you uh as well. So, Claire, we're getting to the top of the hour here. Um, I would love for people to be able to, I mean, you train a lot of people, and I would love for others who are interested in upskilling in AI to know how they can kind of plug into what you're doing. Where do they go for that?
SPEAKER_02Well, we are in the midst of just launching. You can go to Bright Light, B-R-I-T-E-L-I-T-E dot IO. And that's where we offer training, depending on what your needs are, very, very focused on human impact first and leveraging AI to really uh take what you're doing to the next level and to not get left behind in this in this uh world. And just to know, you know, the biggest thing is to know, you know, people don't know what they don't know. And so it's just uncovering that. And there's little so many different ways that we can tackle that. We do it low through a lot of training and one-to-one sessions and workshops for teams. Um, also, if you're interested in the podcast that I run is the Small Town Entrepreneur, and we're about to launch season three that really leans into the human AI uh movement, and it's called the Small Town Entrepreneur.
SPEAKER_00I love it.
SPEAKER_02Um yeah, and so yeah, I'm ClaireBouvier.com. And um, my goal is to take you and hit your highest full potential in this world and to really lean into you know where the next chapter is for you, and that this is a great opportunity to truly reflect and look at what's out there for you.
SPEAKER_00Incredible. This was uh a great episode for me. I I am going to be noodling on this artificial EQ concept and how I can leverage it my business. Not the intended topic, but guys that are listening, um how do I put this? Again, remember low EQ. I I I I start with an intention, but I do this podcast for me because I'm I'm a curious, like I want to know how to use AI better. And how you do that is you you see what other people are doing, right? That collective intelligence. And this is an opportunity. These podcast episodes are an opportunity for that. So um I guarantee uh Claire and I will be talking more about the agentic concept in the future. Um but I I hope that everybody got some aha's from this because the way that she's using generative AI is human plus AI, which is really the best way to be doing this. So um Claire, thank you so much for uh taking the time out to do this. And um I there's no doubt that we've got a lot more to talk about.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I feel like what like you said, we started somewhere, we ended here, but I think this is it is wonderful. I think for your listeners at the end of the day, is um whatever medium works best for you, whether it's writing, it's talking, it's sketching out, whatever it is, is allowing AI to help you take that and to turn it package into something that is really, really close to who you are as an individual. And that is where the competiting, you know, that's the competitor difference, is that you can become so hyper-personalized in this age of AI, uh, channeling mediocrity that's out there and really taking it to the next level and and differentiating. And all it starts with is maybe taking a transcript from a call that you had on your with your friend and just saying, you know, what are some insights from this call? And how can I use this, these insights for my first posts on a blog on LinkedIn? Very simple. Start there and and see how your metrics change. Um, people will be much more inclined to follow that human you than these, you know, spit out, generic, yep, free chat GBT responses on how to start a business.
SPEAKER_00Well, awesome. So, folks, I can't encourage you now. This you'll get this kind of insight from Claire on her podcast, Small Town Entrepreneur, or at bright B-R-I-T-E, light l-i-te dot io. I highly encourage you to plug into her perspective on AI and um would love any feedback that you had on the episode uh on how we can do more cool things like this. So, everybody, thank you so much, and we'll see you on the next episode.
SPEAKER_02Can I add one thing, Chris, before we end? I how about for our listeners? I'll send over some prompts I use when you have the Instagram. How to ask, what are some of the questions you can be asking to improve your team leadership and role? So I thought maybe just we'll leave something and see if people are interested and we'll provide that takeaway in this episode.
SPEAKER_00Yep, you'll find them in the show notes as soon as we get this episode up, everybody. Awesome. Thank you so much. Talk soon. Thanks, Chris. Thanks for tuning in to Using AI at work. Don't forget to subscribe for more conversations about how to use AI at work. And a special thank you to our sponsor, Chief AI Officer, for empowering businesses with AI education and training. Visit their website for a free AI readiness assessment and AI strategy guide to help you get started using AI at work. That's www.chiefaiofficer.com. Thanks to our producer, Evan Destalnier, for making this episode possible. Follow us on Twitter at the handle usingAI at work and visit www.usingai at work.com for free resources to help you harness AI in your role.