This episode is brought to you by ChiefAIOfficer.com. Most companies know AI can slash costs and free up teams, but they get stuck on the first step. ChiefAIOfficer.com can identify your highest value use cases, train your people, and build the workflows that do the work for you. Book your free private 15-minute executive briefing by going to ChiefaiOfficer.com and scheduling a call. You'll leave with a clear, no-jargon roadmap for your goals. Now, enjoy the show. And a quick note before we start this episode. Starting August 29th through October 29th, we're actually taking our AI executive immersion on the road. This is a free, half-day, in-person, no fluff workshop for executives of lower middle market and above-sized companies. You'll leave with a 90-day plan, a simple AI policy and guardrails, and a personal AI stack that gives you hours back every week. If you'd like to bring your executive team at no cost, go to chiefaiofficer.com forward slash roadshow to see the dates and locations where we'll be. Seats are limited to keep it hands-on. Hopefully, this is an opportunity for us to meet in person and for you to learn exactly how we're teaching busy executives to take advantage of AI and their role and across their companies. Now, let's start the episode. Welcome to Using AI at Work. I'm your host, Chris Dagle. Each week we'll be learning how today's business owners, entrepreneurs, and ambitious professionals are getting more done with smart use of tomorrow's tech. Let's get started. Hi, everybody, and welcome to an episode of Using AI at Work. And today we're going to be talking about AI with Steph Van Haverbecke. Steph is she just shared with me that she's about to release a book, which we're going to be talking about. But um, Steph, before we get started, if you don't mind, take a moment and just kind of share with the audience like what you're doing in AI today.
SPEAKER_03Today, I give a lot of training courses, do a lot of workshops with uh with people uh in in businesses um uh who want to adopt AI. So um so that's what I do on a day on a day-to-day basis. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Well then you're uh talking to the right people because the people here want to learn how to use AI. Before we talk, I I definitely want to go into that and what the experiences are like working with clients and kind of like um what that whole paradigm looks like in bringing AI into business. But I want to start with your book that you were telling me that um it's about to come out. I'm fascinated with the subject uh of the book. So you you mentioned the title was being replaced.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Being replaced.
SPEAKER_00Being replaced. And I think that everybody listening probably knows the context of that, right? Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Um but the subtitle of the book The Five Human Skills That AI Cannot Uh Automate. That's a subtitle.
SPEAKER_00You know, I think that's a big question for a lot of people because listeners to the podcast, I think, probably know a little bit more about AI than the average uh business person out there. Um and and that's a concern. I just got off a podcast now, and that was how we wrapped it up. Like who's safe, right? So um I'm particularly interested in what those skills are, and fingers crossed I've got all five of them. So do you mind sharing kind of the the thesis of the book? Yeah, of course, of course.
SPEAKER_03Well, um let me just uh start with how the book came to be, maybe. It's yeah, it's not it's not something because I I I said uh in our pre-talk, I said, you know, in the past few weeks I've been work working on a book, but the book was already a couple of years in the making, of course. And it's in the making uh because of the conversations that I've had during all that time with people in business, and and uh the anxiety that that lives um among you know people who just will love to do their job.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And uh and then yeah, and then there's this thing, AI, that that's going to replace me. So that's uh there's there's a lot of concern there, and and it's and it's a valid concern, of course.
SPEAKER_00Agreed.
SPEAKER_03Um uh and then I started to think, yeah, well, that's that's all AI can do a lot of things, and I can be an accelerator, and I have a whole story about that as well. But then I started, you know, what what what what are the answers that some of the the the things that we can hold on to as human beings that not only will um be will will never probably be replaced by AI, but will actually make big the big differences for businesses uh in in in the foreseeable future. So and that's that's how I um came to this framework, which I call the cognitive agility framework.
SPEAKER_00I like it.
SPEAKER_03Uh and of course you have some words there. It's it's cognition, so it's how does our brain work, and it's agility, how can you be agile in a changing environment? Uh and and a framework, meaning that it's it's something that has a couple of components, five to be exact. And uh and and so it's it's it's something that that we can use as a person, as as a company, as as teams also to leverage uh our human potential. And if we look at it in that way, actually um AI sets us free instead of uh replacing us. So that's the core message of the book.
SPEAKER_00Yes, I I totally um see the uh inspirational elements of that uh approach to things. Do you mind walking us through kind of the the areas that you see or the cognitive capabilities that you see that AI is not going to replace and that we should be developing as modern-day business people?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, of course. Well, first of all, yeah, um, right off the bat, the first principle or the first skill that we have as as humans is flexible thinking. Uh and what do I mean by this? Um our brain uh works in a totally different way than a machine does. Meaning uh our brain is embodied, so we have this corporal entity that we are, and so our brain has senses, it has a way to flip the switch easily from deep work and then um doing dreaming and and you know being all over the place somewhere else, and going back and forth uh between those those different modes, neural network modes that our brain uh is able to handle. And uh and that's that's something that a computer is not very well equipped to do, um, even large language models. Uh and I'm sure that a lot of us have been accustomed to you know working with AI and you know asking AI to do some some things, and that these large language models back basically are very rigid in their cognition. Um, you know, once once they're on a on a particular path, it's very difficult to move them elsewhere. So, and this is this is the first thing, so flexible thinking. And I break it down into three subcomponents. Um, first of all, it's critical thinking. Uh, critical thinking is a cognitive ability that is uh that never has been as important as it is today, uh, because everything that AI generates um in terms of images but also in terms of you know text um and information. Some people really believe that um AI is something that comes from aliens or you know something divine, which of course is not, and and it only uh um shows how how people are just not seeing AI for what it really is. It's compute, uh it's it's just a prediction model based on pattern recognition, and that's it, you know. Uh and of course it can emulate the way we think very very nicely, um, but it's not real cognition, it's not really understanding. So critical thinking is the first, and then the second element in that in that part is um creative thinking. Um and that that's that's the way we uh can imagine things, that we can come up with totally new things. And um and why do I use these two elements? Because I work uh before this I did a lot of work in no doing workshops around innovation and change. What I always thought is that critical thinking and creative think are two, you know, two sides of the same coin. It does not go without the other. Um and so that's what I why I put them also in the framework. Like these are the two core elements. And then you have systems thinking. Systems thinking, which has long been uh the underdog of of management theory, but but it is it is becoming uh yeah of utmost relevance. Uh and I've heard you worked with Shell, so I'm I'm sure that you you're familiar with you know scenario thinking and all these things which are which are based in systems theory. And and so systems thinking is is is a skill that we need to develop to see the um you know the relationships between the parts, not only see the parts from what they are, but see the relationships and the you know how the system works and go go a bit deeper below the surface, so to say. Um and that's something that an AI cannot do. AI only sees the service. There's there's a whole lot of information that that um is invisible to AI and will probably be always invisible to AI. Uh let me just clarify with an example.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Um, so imagine you're sick, you're going to the emergency room and hospital, and then you expect you know the caregiver to do some diagnosis, uh, you know, hearing, seeing, using some instruments. But it's not only what is being diagnosed, that is information, it's also who, how have you come? Are you alone? Are you with somebody? What is your state of mind? What is your what is your physical state? What is your emotional state? And these are all things that are very difficult for an AI to understand uh or even to detect, you know, the unspoken information, yeah. Um, which is just there because it's there. And as human, we can we have our our senses and and and our ability to to sense the unspoken things, which is very hard for an AI to do. So, and that's why um, you know, AI is blind for an a lot of a lot of the information that is innately with us as human beings. That's that's the first thing. So uh critical thinking, creative thing, systems thinking, and the flexibility that we have to switch from one to another. So, and then there are four more parts. If you're comfortable sharing another book, doesn't come out. Of course. Yeah, yeah. So the the second part of the of the cognitive agility framework uh is emotional intelligence, the ability to have uh to feel what another person feels. And I don't have to draw a whole pictures to um understand that uh an i an AI is just incapable of feeling, really feeling. And and the the the thing is that that AI, the the large language models and the the system prompts that are written around these large language models are written in such a way that um these AI agents or the AI tools, the chatbots, are very accommodating. They are really very positive and very, you know, they they they always seem enthusiastic and you know helpful. And it seems like that's that's emotional intelligence, but it's just simulation. It's not real, it's not a real person. You know, they cannot sense what's really going on, they have no empathy, and and you can easily trick them, by the way, you know, these these chatbots. So um, so if you have some time uh left, you know, you you should go and play with that a little bit. There's there's one of these uh chat GPT, um, you know, these custom GPTs, and it's called Negative Nancy. And it's it's really fun because you know, instead of being uh accommodating negative Nancy, it's very critical. You know, and and so so you can really um you know have have this illusion that there's an intelligent being on the other side of your of your screen, but it's not. So emotional intelligence, you know. And the the the example that uh that uh that I often uh talk about is you know, well, it's it's for my personal life. And um and my father last year my father passed. Uh so he he was uh in the last two years of his life, he was paralyzed from the neck down. Um so he he he had no no real future no more. No vision anymore of you know what what to do with his life and everything. And and here in Belgium we have this this um this ability to utilize people. So he applied for that, and it's at first um it was rejected because you know this was still some chance for for recovery and we'll see. But after two years it was very apparent that that recover recovery was out of the question. Uh and he had no touch in his hands, he had no he had no taste anymore at the end, and and you know, and no, he he life for him was nothing more than pain and struggle every day. Yeah and so uh at the end um the the procedure was approved and he got yeah, so he he yeah he passed.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And of course it that was for for us as as as as the family was a very um tumultuous time, but also kind of a release for you know I I've I I came to peace with it. Um you know I was with be in peace now with with the fact that he this was his decision, he chose for it and and everything like that. And but for him, it was a release. Now as I am telling the story, um, you know, for a lot of people that will evoke emotions.
SPEAKER_00Yes.
SPEAKER_03Um, you know, it evokes emotions with me, with my family members, if we reflect on that, but also with other people, and that is something that an AI can never do. They they cannot never have a real sense of what it means to lose a parent, but also what it means to see your own father or parent or mother suffering every day. So and we can imagine a world where everything is highly optimized by AI, that disability will truly make a difference.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. You know, you'll still be able to protect authenticity in that.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, it comes down to authenticity and deep understanding and having a sense. And and let's imagine again the uh emergency room where you get to when you're when you have something and you want to get help. Uh I would not appreciate having to, you know, explain everything to a chatbot.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_03You know, I want the real person there who really can understand me.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. So when we pull that thread all the way through, uh we can imagine a world where a lot of the first line assistance will be provided by AI, chatbots, agents, whatever. Yeah. You know, when it really comes down to it, you want a real person to be there to help you.
SPEAKER_00Customer service, maybe not so much, but but a situation like this, 100%.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. And and most of the time, you know, like like when you get into a store and there's somebody there already, you know, nagging you, you know, can I help you, uh uh Madam or Sir, you know. Yeah, at first you say, go away. I will, you know, I'm here just to to you know to explore or to browse or whatever. And and after a while, you won't help. Good point. So after a while you really and then you want the personal assistant. You want somebody, somebody, you know, there, literally somebody.
SPEAKER_00Yes.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. That makes sense. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Okay, so that's two.
SPEAKER_03And then there's a third element, and the third element is uh collaborative intelligence is the intelligence that we have as a group. It's the ability uh of a group or a team um to pull together um when when when all things fail. And uh the example that I wrote in the book was just something that happened here in Belgium uh a few weeks ago. You know, we had this we have this festival. It's it's it's well known, it's too called Tomorrowland. I've probably heard of it, you know, it's this big uh you know how to say music festival. And you have a lot of DJs going from all over, and you and and hundreds of thousands of people gather. And two days before the opening, the main stage just literally burned down to the ground. Well, nothing more than ashes and cinders. And what happened? So everybody thought, you know, this is this is a disaster, you know. There's no way that this festival will happen two days before grand opening. Well, they opened. But what did they do? They pulled in resources, people from all over the world. Everybody wanted to help. And they got got a big, you know, big screens and they got a whole new uh you know installation. I think it was it from Metallica or something, you know. Somebody gave them the whole kids and uh just use that, you know. And there's the whole the whole world became a community just to make this festival happen. Yeah, yeah. So and in two days' time they shipped over from all over the world um the things that they needed to to to do to have to hold the festival. And it and people said it was the best festival in years, you know, even though you know the glamorous stage was wasn't there as as it was foreseen. And that's something that we people have, and that and that we always had. We as a species were we were able to you know to hunt the biggest animals out there because we are able to communicate, quickly uh shift gears, to no uh from one uh strategy shift to another. And that's that's what we have as a collective. So it's collective and collaborative intelligence, and that is innately human. And and we can imagine a world where people will work with AI and agents, AI agents, um, and there there will be to some degree uh parts of this collaborative intelligence there, but not the same way as um as a as a group of people can do. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And then there's there's the fourth element, and that's intuition. And how does that work? Well, the story that I tell in the book was something that I that I heard a couple of years ago. Uh it was about uh an entrepreneur and an investor. Um and and he heard about this small company, which was doing very good, but at the uh at the one hand, but also struggling at the other hand, like many many startups do when they when you know become successful. And he he's he looked at that company and said, you know, I'm I see the potential. So he he just called the uh you know the owner of the of the of the company and said, you know what, let's get together somewhere and and and talk about you know the future of their company. And right off the bat, during that uh lunch meeting, let's say, you know, he said, you know, I want to buy your company or want to have the a big stake in your company. And uh the other one said, Okay, okay, um what's the uh uh what do you uh what do you want to offer? And there and then, during that uh lunch meeting, they agreed on on the price and everything. So everything was was was already decided. And then of course the lawyers and the you know the accountants came in and they they just rubber stamped everything. They they didn't, you know, they weren't even allowed to say, oh, this is this is not a good idea. No, no. The idea was there, the conclusion was there, the deal was there already. They just had to rubber stamp everything. And that's that's something that we have. As as humans, we we can have this conviction that something will succeed against all odds, maybe.
SPEAKER_00Yes.
SPEAKER_03uh because we can see sense have this intuitive true feeling yeah you know that something will uh will succeed of course or could succeed we are dreamers and so that's that's that's our power and that's something that in ai and probably any version of ai that will come uh in the future will never have you know this this this gut feeling that something is is possible even though nobody believes it yeah intuition is not a uh it can't predict that yeah and that makes sense and then there's the the fifth component and that's um that's innovation the ability to innovate it's just a bit different than than pure creativity because you can be creative for the creativity just you know do some art or something but innovation is really bringing to the world something that is totally different probably disruptive and that changes the world fundamentally or maybe in a small way or in a big way um and we see that happening all the time of course and um and that's something that happens when people not only intuitively imagine things but that they also create it they bring it into the world they they they prototype it they test it they they they tweak it and uh up until it you you have something that works and very often and and um you know what we see in is that when we try uh to have agents because they do these tests and tropic is is very well known to to run these tests you know about you know uh giving some AI some agency and see what happens when when they they really want to um run a business for instance and and what we see today is that they falter every time because they they lack these these core elements yeah they lack the the flexible thinking they lack the emotional intelligence they lack the collaborative ability they lack intuition but they also lack the ability to truly innovate and and uh and bring into the world something that is totally different than than what we ever had before and it's not just the rehashing of known patterns and so that's how we close the loop because then we come again to flexibility and creativity and and so so it's a wheel it's it's something that's that's um it's not not just you know uh like a menu card you pick and choose something no no yeah you have to do everything yeah yeah I hope you're enjoying the episode did you know that while you're listening to this competitors are already boosting EBITDA with generative AI if you're still stuck in pilot mode margin and market share are leaking every quarter cheapaiofficer.com guides executive teams to the three moves they need to be doing identifying the top AI plays that will lift revenue or slash costs within 90 days de-risk adoption with team training airtight governance and change management best practice and then building and deploying production grade AI powered tools no extra head count full ROI track the results operators at scale generative AI cut process costs 22% last year let's talk claim your free private 15 minute executive briefing by going to chiefaiofficer.com and walk away with a board ready roadmap slots fill fast so lock yours in now enjoy the rest of the episode does the book give any advice on how these skills can be applied or or or enhance in your role so that it becomes obvious or we could have an AI you know push the button move the email whatever but we want them on board because they are contributing at a level that we recognize AI can't do.
SPEAKER_00Is there any advice for individuals on how to do that?
SPEAKER_03Yeah um well the book is full of of examples and also uh some um you know very useful tools and and and and things that you can do to to develop these these skills uh and to uh to put them into practice with your team as well or in your organization or it can be just for yourself but but the the the the the the whole premise of the book is actually you know this is not a book about AI it's a book about people you know working with AI in a world where AI is abundant is everywhere uh you know the the world of today and tomorrow where you can imagine that every business to some degree will be using AI. Yeah agreed could be for uh translation purposes or copywriting or maybe it's doing some design stuff or maybe automating some some some aspects of your business or whatever. Now in such a world how will you make a difference as a business how will you make a difference as a person it is not by just you know doing what everybody else does and and the reason why I'm saying this is that the the the way the technology technology evolves right now is they make it very easy it's it's never before in in our um you know existence have we had such powerful technology in the hands and the pockets of everybody you know and it's free you know gym and I is free chat GPT you can use to a certain degree for free so that that is amazing and the only the only thing that I can think of is you know when when the emer uh emergence of the internet you know um you know the world wide web and we had suddenly access to all this information well now we have access to compute and that's basically pure power yeah and and it's and it's very very easy to fall into the trap believing that we need to move faster in that world well uh and that's the case that I make in the book that the the economy of the future will not be for for the business who is able to move the fastest because that will be irrelevant. Yeah everybody will move very fast yeah and have that ability you can have you know a teenager tinkering with NA10 and you're hiring him to automate big chunks of your business and you'll be the fastest maybe for a minute or two. So what what will make the difference well the people the the companies are most human will make the difference interesting yeah because what we forget is that we all have compute we all have compute power but it's on a a whole other level than what the AI can do and and sometimes we forget this you know we're dazzled by the new you know the new you know GPT 5 and new agent here and new ability there and it's all shiny and and great and wonderful how will you make the difference?
SPEAKER_00Yeah so not only I guess the businesses that are human will get distinguished in the marketplace but the businesses that are seen as more human they can't be fully automated by agentified businesses. They have to require people so okay this makes a lot of sense what's gonna happen because that's obviously not going to be every business and and not every business is going to they they might be okay with synthetic right like oh it's close enough to human um for us to go to market or us to ship or us to you know take on clients so it doesn't necessarily mean that there will end up being oh everybody's gonna keep their job um because you know because of these five factors there's going to be some recalibration of what qualifies you as a viable employee or or service provider or vendor. So an interesting topic you know there's um I I I didn't think we were gonna we were gonna be able to get into um that when I heard the title of the book I thought it was going to be roles or you know like tactical skills that would be like oh if I can learn how to do this I'll keep my job but that's not it at all. It's something that we all have access to today. There's no new upskilling required perhaps learning how to make sure that your personal brand I guess is recognized as part of that authentic effort or authentic movement that's going to be the difference.
SPEAKER_03Absolutely absolutely you know everybody's talking now about AI slob. You know it's everywhere. And I see I see it everywhere and everybody sees it and and for people who you know you know I shouldn't say who it is but let's say some people in my circles they often you know send me these you know little shorts you know or whatever reels you know that they they picked up from from whatever wherever and say is this real because they can't tell the difference between if a human did it or if it was like a hatan yeah yeah yeah yeah and but but but you you can still you know point but we can imagine um a moment where we will not be able to distinguish yeah but AI SOP is a big problem. One of the things that people are really looking for is authenticity. And I'm Belgian. So and if there's something that Belgium is very famous for it's for beer. Let's make an analogy the beers in Belgium that are most appreciated are not the beers that everybody all over the world is drinking. You know not even left you know yeah the beers that we prefer come from what we call microbreweries and so they are very small enterprises um some some friends or you know some family members some brothers or some sisters even you know whatever you know they they brew their own beers and they market them very locally and they're very different in in character and taste and everything and they're very highly regarded very much appreciated and very popular. And then you have these you know A B NB into brew beers you know like Stellartois and all these you know and Heineken and all these okay people drink them but they're not as much appreciated as as you know the artisanal beers so I can imagine that um in a world where everything is AI swap yeah people will look for the products and or the services that are human that has this human element in it that are authentic. So let me ask you I believe that you can but in your opinion can you leverage AI for the scale and speed to deliver the authenticity to support the auth the delivery of the authenticity not report yes for yeah for sure and and that's that's also you know I'm not against AI I'm I'm I'm for AI of course yeah yeah I I I enjoy working with AI I I even my book that I wrote you know I used AI but and I explicitly say uh how I used AI in it but um you know it's it ai still is a tool and that's what some some of us you know often forget and when we can imagine and of course you know the big tech entrepreneurs they all dream of this world where you know everything is AI and everything is you know handled by AI and there's this big wonderful world where we don't have to do anything anymore. Well I got news for you.
SPEAKER_00The thing with people is uh people invent work yes good point yeah yeah they always come up with something that we can do and we will leverage AI to do it but we will do it in a way that is totally unexpected and that's our power and that will never go away yeah yeah we are so creative in inventing work you know this this is such a uh like you you and I we use AI on a daily basis as you mentioned you love AI I love AI but I don't think much beyond its application and what I'm doing. I use it strategically to help with planning and and ideation on bigger picture stuff. We use it tactically throughout the business and it's just become almost natural usage for me. I I I if you're familiar with Ethan Moloch and his concept of the cyborg it's a seamless activity that I do I don't it's not like oh I'm gonna go do AI later. Like I I don't spend a lot of time trying to forecast what's going to happen on the macro like the the the global stage because A, it's a big question. B nobody knows and I think you just brought up a good example of that even if AI could do it well maybe I like the activity of doing that. So I'm sure I could use it maybe I'll use AI tomorrow but hey I'm going to roll up my sleeves and do whatever that thing is. So it's nice to have the conversation uh especially the perspectives because I think it's gonna be a topic like AI's efficacy well established at this point. Even if the some of the listeners are new to it talk to somebody's been using the tool for three months, right? They're gonna say it changed my life. So that's not the question but the I think that so the conversation the narrative in the marketplace I fully expect to start to shift to but what does this mean? What does this mean for people parenting for uh kids in college or who are you know going to col like what should they study? Like all those things are changing. And I don't I don't I'm not dig into the guesswork anyway. I'd rather just go and and do the thing. So this is nice to have this conversation. Now I'd like to shift gears a little bit because not every one of our guests works as closely with clients uh who aren't AI experts as you do. So I'd I I'd kind of like to like collect some intelligence from the field essentially like like I'll share with you an experience that I've had and I want to know if it's similar for you. In 2023 when we launched our business chiefaiofficer.com I thought we were already late right like and we launched it in March of 23 and the big pop didn't happen. And I thought oh that's okay everybody's learning about it but 2024 it's gonna take off the pop didn't happen. Now like not even at the beginning of this year it was it was accelerating but like now we're in the thick of it and at least in our business and it's not because oh well you've got two years in no it's because the market is catching up to the messaging like what's happening here. Has your experience are are you encountering more sophisticated or savvy or better questions from your clients than you did two years ago?
SPEAKER_03Uh yes and no my sense is it is that the majority of the people that I that I work with that I encounter um are using AI but not on the level that they could be using it.
SPEAKER_00Okay yeah like they're using it for emails or document summaries.
SPEAKER_03Yeah yeah yeah and I refer to this very nice model that uh uh George Burson um came up with it's called the super worker model and I expanded a little bit on it uh so I see again five levels and level zero is well I've tried AI but it didn't do what I want so I won't be using it or maybe you know just scarcely yeah that's level zero they'll use it like Google. Yeah yeah and then you have the level one superworkers which are the people who are using AI on a day-to-day basis regularly to maybe write some text translate some uh you know make some translations charite some images whatever yeah uh help to study whatever you know those those are the the level one superworkers so and then you have level two and those are the people who think about the way they are working with AI so it's already a meta cognition here this so what am I doing actually with AI and how can I optimize this so they start to create um you know these customized GPTs or the custom GPTs uh which were already there you know for for two or three years I think yeah um and are called agents in co-pilots but they are not agentic. And so they they start to evaluate the way they work with AI and and to a certain degree automate some of the stuff that they do. And then these are the things that every anybody can do on an individual level you don't need any approval for that because we all have uh ChatGPT or Gemini or Claude or whatever on running on our phones you know you can just do it. And then there's um level three which is you know ah but maybe you can give my uh not only automate some of the things but give agency uh to to my uh to the the AI tools that I use if there's something that that that becomes popular or all businesses start to you know uh chip in and uh and now you have agents everywhere it seems uh but real agency is still not there yet yeah we're getting there yeah and then we can imagine a world where you will have organizations and teams that work seamlessly with diverse team with human agents and AI agents and that's level four so and and this is an evolution on scale from working harder or working hard better to say to working smart yeah um from you know working hard and you're paid to work hard if if you're not completely done with the work you just you know put a little extra effort a little extra time you work a little bit harder and you're getting there and this is changing to working smarter and working smarter means that you really think about what you're doing with your work and so this this this trajectory everybody is on at a certain point on this on on this trajectory uh so you can ask yourself your qu the question of which level super worker am I um and maybe you're level level one for some some things and they're level uh zero for other things yeah yeah so and this is this is this is a question this is a framework that I often use in my workships as well and I ask them uh my audience know on which level are you most of them they position themselves on level zero or level one yeah so if that's that's that's the the long answer to your quick question.
SPEAKER_00No it's very helpful I you know there's not a lot of people like you and me out there who don't just know the subject but are actually interacting with people at all skill levels. And I'm I'm always interested and I think it's important for the audience to hear it too because I I think there's a lot of people that two things either they think you know I'm using AI but boy I'm I'm way behind because they they they know enough about it to know how accelerated the advancement is of the technology or there's people who are using it who think they're way ahead of where they right actually are you know we talk to executives and they'll say oh we're already using AI. That's fantastic. What do you you know give me some examples and they're like well I use it to write emails and summarize documents. Yeah that's level one helpful certainly however it can do more than that but if you ask them on a scale of and because we usually do we say on a scale of one to five where are you? We don't define like one, two, three, four, five and in the fall we would do some we did a lot of training a lot of free training for executives and we would always start our training so that we could kind of calibrate the messaging like hey audience where are you on a scale of one to five and there used we used to get a lot of ones and twos and then I noticed in the spring of this year we started getting more threes and fours and I was like what does that mean? And what we found out was it wasn't that they were that sophisticated. They self diagnosed as Sophisticated users. So as you're dealing with clients, do you get people who you know show up to the training, but they're like, I already know this stuff, even even though you and I know that they are just scratching the surface? Or are you finding that people are airing more towards the side of thinking they don't know as much as they do?
SPEAKER_03Well, um the quick answer is that most people do not use AI to its fullest potential. They do the very basic stuff.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_03Using a chatbot like ChatGPT or you know, stuff like that. Never have I encountered a person who is, you know, really proficient in model context prof protocol implementations.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Never.
SPEAKER_00You know. I know one guy.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. And it's it is it is a whole other level, of course. Um, it's not that it's that difficult when you're really getting into it, but it's on a whole other level, and most people, you have to understand, you know, let's say uh let me just say with a clear example. And I also I think I mentioned it in the book uh somewhere. So there was one at one at one of the workshops that I that I ran a few uh a couple of months ago, there was this this young woman, and she said, I love my job, and I love my job because it gives me the ability to speak and write in other languages. I love languages, and that's why I applied for this job as a tra you know being somebody who has a lot of translation work and you know working with foreign clients and everything. I said, and now you you're telling me that I can do this quicker with AI, but I don't want to do it quicker with AI. Yeah, you know, because then I lose that thing like going deep into the language and figuring things out. Something she loves doing. It's something she loves doing. Yeah. Same with developers. Yeah. You know, you have all these things like vibe coding and you know, all these yans everywhere. It seems like and and a lot of developers are being laid off.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_03But why do you pick that job because you love tinkering? You love figuring things out.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_03That's what you do as a developer.
SPEAKER_00You know, this is such a big topic. Um, I'm glad you you've put so much thought into it and actually have your book coming out. So can can you take a second, Steph, and tell us about uh when the book's gonna be released and how uh uh the listeners can get access to it.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, well, imagine that I uploaded it to Amazon today.
SPEAKER_00Oh, congratulations. It's a big accomplishment.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So but it's not there yet. It has to be reviewed and everything. So I think in a couple of days we'll be there. But you can go to um our website and it's called thehouseofcoaching.com. So it's not difficult. It will be there.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, we'll put it in the show notes too.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, we'll put the link there. So, and then you can just grab the book uh from Amazon. Yeah, uh the link will be on on our website. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00You know, anybody can put a book together today in ChatGPT, and this this plays right into what we've been talking about is that authenticity.
SPEAKER_03This wasn't written with ChatGPT or you know.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. I'm I'm sure, and and like that it's you used it as an ideation partner and stuff like that for sure. But the the best books that I'm finding on AI are from people that I know. They locked themselves in a hotel room every weekend for two months and just worked on the book. And yes, they had AI there, but they weren't like, here's a mag mega prompt, write my book. Oh, I'm publishing tomorrow. These were books that were that level of authenticity that you're talking about, including the intuition, including the critical thinking, including the context switching of how I think about things. Like all of those things come through, and that's what makes them uh of interest and successful to the audience.
SPEAKER_03If we have still have some couple of minutes, I would just share the story quickly how the book got developed. So imagine I'm doing a workshop, I'm confronted with these stories, these real human concerns, and then I drive back home or to another, you know, uh gig and and I'm reflecting. And I'm thinking about you know the questions that I that I got and you know the answers that I gave that most of the time are not perfect answers either. Yeah, but I want to give the best, you know, and to bring out the best um with with with my clients. So I'm thinking a lot about you know, and then I put up Chat GPT or Gemini on my phone and I just chat.
SPEAKER_01Yes, yes.
SPEAKER_03I had this, I had this, and I and it get gets back to me with some, you know, and that's the ideation part. It's yeah. And the the nice things is that all these chats are being saved in and you know in chat GPT, and then I can just after after uh a couple of days, you know, look into it and just pull some things together, and that's how the book came into existence, you know, and it's been a work for from years, and from reflecting on what the things were that I noticed with people and business owners and and office workers, you know, and entrepreneurs, and you know, and people working in in care and every from every you know part of the landscape. And then I started to put the model together.
SPEAKER_00Innovation, as you referenced earlier, came up with something that, yeah, from all of those experiences started to get the shell.
SPEAKER_03And something and something I wanted something that was useful, you know, that that that people could really put into practice.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00I think it's a good idea for for business owners that are on this to by the time this episode comes out, you can probably find it on Amazon. But if you're looking to uh certainly continue on the AI journey with the implementation of the tools in your business and that sort of thing, but at some point your business is going to be quote unquote AI-ified. And the thing that is going to help you remain to differentiate when every other business in your competition is also AI-ified, is going to be this framework of the five ideas of anti being replaced. So as a business owner, I would suggest that you think about what we've talked about today. I would encourage you to get the book and then start thinking about you can use ChatGPT to help you, of course, but start thinking about how can I introduce these concepts into our product, our customer experience, our user interface on our website. Like what can I do? And I do think that Steph, you're spot on with this stuff. If you pull that off as a business and you're using AI, you are going to be one of those businesses that doesn't isn't a casualty of uh what's happening and and honestly what with what's coming.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it it is not a question of if and not even when, it's now. Yeah. It's happening. It's just, you know, what it's it's a question of what. What can you do right now?
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Yeah. I think it's a fantastic place. So uh houseofcoaching.com is where you can find more information about what uh Steph and her team are doing with clients, helping them upskill and and innovate and transform with AI. That's also where you'll be able to find her new release uh being replaced, which we discussed on the podcast today. So, Steph, thank you so much for taking the time. I'm I'm honestly congratulations on on uh you know getting a book out that wasn't AI generated. That's a big accomplishment. So congratulations.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, thank you. Uh uh, it was my honor to be uh on your show.
SPEAKER_00Thank you so much. All right, everybody, we'll see you on the next episode. In the meantime, uh keep using AI. Thanks for tuning in to using AI at work. Don't forget to subscribe for more conversations about how to use AI at work. And a special thank you to our sponsor, Chief AI Officer, for empowering businesses with AI education and training. Visit their website for a free AI readiness assessment and AI strategy guide to help you get started using AI at work. That's www.chiefaiofficer.com. Well, thanks to our producer, Evan Despolnier, for making this episode possible. Follow us on Twitter at the handle UsingAI at Work and visit www.usingaiatwork.com for free resources to help you harness AI in your role.