Starfish Social Club

In the latest episode of Wild Developments, I sit down with Steph West, the inspiring founder of Starfish Social Club. Steph shares her journey of supporting neurodivergent kids and teens, helping them grow from socially challenged to socially competent, confident, and connected individuals.

Steph's approach is grounded in the belief that every small action matters, much like the starfish story that inspired her club's name. She works with one child at a time, making a lasting impact on their social lives. Through fun and creative challenges, her students learn to be flexible, navigate group dynamics, and develop essential life skills.

Starfish Social Club Website

Wild Wisdom:

1. Small Steps, Big Impact: Whether you're working on personal growth or helping others, focus on making a difference one step at a time. Every small action counts, just like in the starfish story.
2. Schedule Time for Nature: To strengthen your connection with the outdoors, start by adding it to your calendar. Whether it's a 30-minute walk or time in your backyard, making it a habit ensures it becomes a priority.
3. Embrace Flexibility: Social skills, like navigating friendships, are often about adaptability. Practicing flexibility in group settings can help you develop stronger, more meaningful connections.

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Intro & Outro: Bernie Baggs

Transcript

And a man comes along and he sees her doing this. 
And he says, why are you wasting your time? 
You can't save all of them. 
And she runs to the next one and throws it in the ocean and says, 
I just saved that one. 
So I'm not saving anybody, but I really was just drawn to the concept of one at a time, 
right? 
That I can help and I can support and I can coach one person at a time. 
Welcome to Wild Developments Studio. 
Join us as we venture into the breathtaking realm of wildlife arts and untamed adventures. 
With captivating stories from the field and ideas to dive into the visual arts, 
we'll ignite your passion for conservation. 
Get ready to develop something wild. 
Welcome to Wild Developments. 
I am your guide, Lauren, and today we are talking to Steph West. 
She is the creator of the starfish social club she helps neurodivergent kids and teens go from socially challenged to socially competent confident and connected she has a bachelor's degree in psychology and master's degree in special education and education administration she also has specialist certification in autism behavior support traumatic brain injury inclusion and transition she has been supporting neurodivergent students for almost 20years is a special education teacher. 
School administrator, and behavior specialist for school districts throughout Texas. 
And she also runs two private schools for neurodivergent kids, one of which she created independently. 
In addition to her work at Starfish, she also is an Ironman triathlete, 
currently learning three languages and working on getting her private pilot's license. 
She also has ADHD. 
Steph, thank you so much for being here today. 
Yeah, thanks for having me, Lauren. 
I'm glad to be here. 
And I'm excited to hear all about Starfish Social Club, but before we start talking about your business, 
what is your background and what led you up to that point? 
I come from the public school system and the private school system. 
I've kind of been all over. 
I have always been in special education in that field. 
So I started as a teacher. 
I then moved up, I became a specialist. 
I became a campus administrator. 
I became a consultant, all kinds of things in the school system under special education. 
And I was at a workshop one day and people were talking about running social skills groups for autistic and ADHD kids. 
And I just decided that I was going to do that and so that was in February of 2016and I went home and I registered a business and by June I was running a summer camp and so I am just finished my eighth year of my business all just coming from me sitting in a workshop and deciding I'm I'm going to do that. 
So I have ADHD, if that wasn't obvious. 
So I'm really impulsive. 
And so when I get an idea, usually I kind of just run with it. 
And so yeah, eight years later, this is what I do. 
So I'm a social coach for autistic and ADHD kids. 
I primarily run run social skills groups, but I also do one -on -one support and I run an in -person summer camp. 
That sounds amazing. 
I have ADHD too, which I want to kind of pick your brain on a little bit. 
Yeah. Tell us about the summer camp and some of the things that you do with Starfish Social Club. 
Club oh it's a tongue twister yeah I the summer camp is half a day it's in Texas um and so summer in Texas can be a little bit brutal um and so what we do it's in the afternoons because that's when most of my kids are the most active and engaged is afternoons myself included I'm not so much a morning person but we the first hour we are outside um the the space that we've had for the the last several years has been walking distance to a park that has a playground and my students are actually 7to 21so we're we're a little bit older but the playground is um really for everybody it's not built for all of us but um we all use it and love it um it's a very large playground so we spend we walk there and back so after all that is probably about 30minutes that we spend actually running around outside playing. 
It's very shaded where we've been the last several years. 
There are some days where we're under a heat advisory. 
And so on those days, we stay at the place that I rent and we just hang out outside. 
We do water guns sometimes, just hanging out outside. 
The kids can, we have sidewalk chalk, we have footballs, baseballs, all kinds of different stuff. 
A lot of my students have mobility challenges, coordination challenges, just, you know, 
things like that's pretty common with autism and ADHD. 
I have my own coordination challenges, but it's because so many of us are struggling with it, 
playing together and running around together and doing physical activities together is pretty fun when you're are not the only kid who can't catch the ball or when you're not the only kid who doesn't run fast so I actually find that my students seem to be much more comfortable in the physical environment in my club because we're all we're all a little bit awkward in multiple multiple senses of the word so that's our first hours we're just being physical outside our second hour we go inside we we do some meditation and some calming so that we can help. 
We can transition. 
And then we do executive functioning games. 
So executive functioning skills are all the things that our frontal lobe of our brain is responsible for, 
which are really challenged in people who are autistic or have ADHD. 
It's part of the diagnosis. 
So things like organizing, planning, decision decision -making, prioritizing, memory, paying attention, all these things are part of executive functioning. 
So I have a bunch of games that I just make up. 
And so we, we do those for the second hour, just whatever game I kind of pull out of the hat that day. 
That's what we do to work on our ability to pay attention, remembering things, 
organizing things, structuring things. 
Things. Turn taking is another part of that being able to to navigate your turn and waiting for other people. 
And then the last hour of camp is game time. 
So I have a bunch of different board games and card games. 
And in summer camp, every day, I give them a different challenge for the day. 
So for example, it may be play a game you've never played before. 
It may be I give them a game, but I don't give them the directions. 
And so they get to decide how they want to play that game that day. 
It may be sometimes I'll have everybody go pick a game. 
So say there's eight kids there and they all come back with a game. 
And then I pair them with another kid and they get to figure out a way to play both of their games together. 
So just a bunch of different stuff that really challenges my students to be more flexible, 
more adaptable, but also the whole point is that we're learning how to be part of a group. 
We're learning how to get along with other people. 
We're learning how to problem solve. 
We're learning how to be social, all that good stuff. 
So that's a day in my camp. 
Man, I want something like that for adults by me. 
Cause like, okay. 
So I was diagnosed with ADHD in my twenties and it, I, okay. 
I call it my superpower. 
I love that. 
I see the world differently than other people. 
However, my kryptonite is time blindness, rejection, sensitivity, and object permanence. 
Like I kind of have figured out executive function. 
Like I have a, an outfit that I, you know, I wake up, 
I'm like, this is kind of my uniform. 
So I don't don't even have to like, think like, yeah, what am I going to wear today? 
Do you have any like tools that you keep in your back pocket for some of those things? 
Yeah, absolutely. So time blindness, I struggle with time blindness as well. 
And because I'm self -employed, most of my day does not revolve around the concept of time. 
You know, I can kind of get up whenever I want to, I can kind of do whatever I want to until it's time for my classes and that kind of thing. 
For time. 
Time blindness. I use my phone a lot. 
I actually have timers on my phone for different times of the day. 
For example, the time of the day that I want to get up in the morning has an alarm. 
The time of the day that I want to start my workouts has an alarm. 
The time of the day that I need to start working has an alarm. 
The time of the day that I need to turn my electronics off before bed. 
Just everything has an alarm on my phone and its own tone, its own ringtone to it that is tied to what that is for. 
Because otherwise, yeah, I could spend three hours on, you know, scrolling social media or, 
you know, reading a book, whatever. 
So I just do timers for everything. 
I also, instead of a timer for when I need to be somewhere, 
if I have have an appointment. 
That's a timer for when I need to start getting ready to leave. 
So if I need to be somewhere at three, I may need to start getting ready to leave at 2.15.
Some people do it for the time they need to leave. 
But if you're getting an alarm when you need to leave and you're not ready to leave, 
it's not as helpful. 
So for the time that you need to start getting getting ready to leave. 
I think that's a really good strategy for time blindness. 
Even another thing is you can record yourself doing certain tasks. 
We tend to overestimate how long non -preferred tasks will take. 
You can record yourself doing it and record how much time it actually took you. 
How much time does it actually take you to unload the dishwasher? 
All right. How much time does it actually take you to brush your teeth? 
But it feels like forever. 
Right? But once you record it and then you can write it, you can write it next to your dishwasher on a post -it note. 
You can write it on your bathroom mirror in a marker, right? 
It only takes two minutes to brush my teeth. 
It only takes, right? 
I mean, whatever it may be, but we procrastinate so many things because we overestimate how long they'll take when really it's minimal. 
It's pretty insignificant in the scheme of the day. 
So those are some strategies for time blindness, rejection sensitive dysphoria. 
I think the biggest thing for this is recognizing that nobody thinks about you as much as you think about you. 
Everybody else is thinking about themselves as much as you are thinking about yourself. 
And also another thing that I I really love to remind myself of is that, 
let me think about how to, how to say this. 
If somebody, anything that somebody says or does is never about the person they're saying or doing it to. 
It's always about them. 
So anything somebody is going to say to you has nothing to to do with you. 
It has to do with them and how their filter is perceiving whatever you have said or done. 
There's nothing to do with you because you can have two people that both hear that you say the same thing or both experience the same thing with you and have two completely different responses to it. 
Right? So nothing anybody says or does is ever about you. 
It's always about them. 
And so if you can remember that, I think that's the one that I think helps me the most probably is just anytime maybe somebody says something negative or unkind, 
it has nothing to do with me. 
It's about that person and the filter that they're seeing me through that day or that they're seeing the world through that day. 
It's not about me. 
Well, that is freeing. 
I like that. 
Yeah. 
Nothing is ever about us as much as we like to think that it is. 
That is very true yeah so starfish social club how did you come up with that name I wanted a name that had to do with social but I didn't want it to get confused with social services if that makes sense and so I spent a couple days just really thinking about what could could I call this place that I'm creating that has social in it. 
But where it's more easily identifiable as to what it is. 
And so then I came up with club and I thought, oh, I love that social club. 
I really love that. 
And so then I just needed kind of like a name for it. 
And starfish comes from the starfish story, which is just, it's just a popular tale about a girl who is on a beach and all these starfish have gotten washed up on the shore and she's running along the shore and picking them up and throwing them back into the ocean and a man comes along and he sees her doing this and he says why are you wasting your time you can't save all of them and she runs to the next one and throws it in the ocean and says I just saved that one so I'm not saving anybody buddy. 
But I really was just drawn to the concept of one at a time, 
right? 
That I, I can help and I can support and I can coach one person at a time. 
Um, and, and I can make a difference in the lives of one person at a time. 
I can't help everybody. 
Not everybody knows about me. 
I'm not that famous this yet um but but I can help one person at a time to change the trajectory of their social life you know um so and then when I put those three words together it just sounded super cool so there we go when you were getting to the starfish part I'm like I wonder if she knows the story of the perfect yeah that's where it comes from yeah that is amazing and that is so so important because seven to 21years that that is so important in developing and getting social skills and friendships. 
And even gosh, in my early forties, it can be hard finding friends sometimes because, 
you know, I might not talk to my friend for a couple of weeks, 
but I still love them and adore them. 
I still think of them. 
I just might not message them or see them all the time. 
And I feel that I've lost a lot of friendships over the years because they don't understand how how I function in a friendship and it, 
you know, it can be hard. 
So I, I wish I had a safe space where I could find a bunch of like -minded people like that. 
That's such a common story with adult women, um, is the concept of losing friends because we tend to be perceived as flaky or disinterested or whatever. 
And it, like you said, it's that object permanence, right? 
And I, I'm like that, even if I'm dating. 
Um, I mean, if, if I don't talk to somebody for a couple of days, 
they kind of just don't exist in my brain anymore. 
You know? Um, I can't tell you how many times I've started dating somebody and we've gone on a date, 
two dates, three dates, but then we go a couple of days without talking. 
And, and my world has like every morning when I wake up is like a new day. 
And so if I don't talk to that person that day, it's my brain is just moved on to something, 
not another person, but just, it's just moved on with life. 
Um, so yeah, I hear that so often from adult women, uh, who have ADHD that, 
that they, they feel like it really affects their relationships when, when they're not present the way that a lot of neurotypical people are able to be present. 
Yeah. And I find it difficult too, because people will remember like, Oh, 
you did this a couple of months ago. 
And I'm like, man, that was so long ago. 
How do you even remember that? 
And I'm like, I'm really interested in you too, but I don't really remember some of those other finer details. 
And it just makes me feel like horrible friends. 
Sometimes we, I need to, I need you to come out here and make a starfish social club for adults. 
Yeah. Well, I'm on zoom now. 
Um, so I'm, I am available. 
I even have students in the UK now because I'm on Zoom. 
So yeah, I think one thing we call that social memory, remembering things about other people. 
And sometimes you can use your phone for that. 
I mean, you can open the contact for that person on your phone and type it in that contact about them. 
Like if you know they have an event coming up, if they're going on a trip, 
just different things that they, if they're are having marriage difficulties you know you can just put those things in in their contact and then the next time you're you know that you're going to see them or talk to them pull it back up and it'll have your notes of what was going on the last time you guys talked because I do the same gosh I do the same thing even with my students like I adore them so much but even remembering remembering things that they were talking about from one week to the next. 
I very often forget and I feel really bad about it. 
But yeah, it's just that, that, that memory, you know, but that's a strategy. 
You can do it in the notes app on your phone. 
I went out with a guy one time and I don't even remember why we were talking about this, 
but he was saying that he does post -it notes for women that he goes out with. 
And so when he gets home from a date, he'll do a post -it note. 
And then if they go out again, he'll add onto the post -it note. 
So yeah, social memory is a really, really important factor in relationships. 
And some of us, it's interesting because a lot of autistic and ADHD people have really good memories for information not social information right but if you have a hyper fixation if you have a special interest um you probably have a really good memory for everything you've ever learned about that thing um but yeah I but social memory not so much not so much related to people that's a good tip with the phone I'm gonna have to start using that yeah the other thing I struggle with too is if somebody's talking to me about something and I have a similar story or something I'm like I connect with you the same way and sometimes I feel like I don't want to draw the the focus on me but I'm like I get that I'm trying to say that I get what you're saying and I think that comes across really rude to people sometimes that I don't know how to fix that that's so I hear that one so often as well that's so interesting that those are actually really common things that women with ADHD talk about. 
And it's exactly what you're saying. 
That's what all the women say. 
I'm trying to relate to them. 
Isn't that what we're supposed to do? 
We're supposed to relate. 
So I'll show you the strategy. 
I teach my students for this. 
I call this the candy strategy. 
So when I think about candy, I think about if you and I are going to share candy, 
I'm going to give one for you and one for me and one one for you and one for me, 
okay? 
So that's how I think about it. 
When, and the example I give is if I were to say right now, 
oh, today's my birthday, okay? 
If you wanted to relate to that comment, you may say something like, 
oh, my birthday's November 3rd, right? 
That would be you relating to that comment. 
Or you could say something like, oh, my birthday's in April also. 
Also that's you finding a common ground, right? 
A common theme between us, which is what we're trying to do when we relate to people. 
We're trying to find commonalities, but you have bowled over my comment, right? 
And so just like if I were to say, oh, today's my birthday, 
the expect, the socially expected response would be happy birthday, right? 
And then you can add on whatever you want to. 
So that's where the candy strategy comes in. 
When somebody shares something, acknowledge what they are saying, first and foremost. 
Acknowledge what they are saying. 
Maybe even engage in a bit of conversation about what they are saying. 
And then, if it still feels appropriate, add your piece into it as well. 
Because the whole point of conversation is to find connections with other people it's it's to what do we have in common what what can we share together that's the point of conversations but when we when it becomes like a ping pong game we're not actually connecting right it's almost like we become ping pong competitors and does that make sense so it's yeah so the candy strategy is is go with what they have shared before you think about adding on how you can relate to that. 
And sometimes too, even if you think about an example, if you have a friend who's sharing that they're having marriage problems, 
even if you may be divorced, you may totally be able to relate to what they're saying, 
but this isn't the time, if that makes sense. 
So if you have somebody sharing something that is very emotional for them, 
which could be any emotion. 
Maybe they're really excited about a promotion at work. 
I mean, it could be any, but if it's highly emotional for them, 
it's probably not the time for us to try to relate to that. 
It's the time for us to support them. 
Those are excellent, excellent tips. 
Yeah. Thank you. 
I love it. 
At Starfish Social Club, do you have some success stories of some of the kids that have gone through your program? 
Oh man, I absolutely, I actually, because I see the kids, once kids are in my program, 
they can stay for as long as they want to. 
So I have kids who've been with me for six years at at this point. 
It's, it's staggered. 
So, you know, kids, six years, and then kids, you know, three years, 
I have kids who just started a couple months ago. 
So it's all staggered. 
And so sometimes I have to reflect back and think, oh, my gosh, 
two years ago, this kiddo was doing this or saying this or pissing everybody off, 
or, you know, whatever the case may be. 
And so I have to reflect because I'm with the kids so often that it's easy for me to forget where we came from but I'll tell you my favorite story I had a student early on um so probably about six years ago I've been open for eight years now probably about six years ago came into my program um upper middle school and he managed to alienate everybody in my program which is hard to do too. 
The students in my program really connect with each other and really relate with each other. 
And it's a very welcoming, nurturing environment. 
So it's pretty hard to be that kid in my environment. 
And he became that kid. 
He was just really rude, disrespectful. 
I remember remember um if somebody so for example if we're playing a game and somebody accidentally skipped his turn he would get so upset and then you know usually the kids say oh i'm sorry and he anytime anybody apologized to him he would say apology unaccepted so it's you know he just he was abrasive I mean. 
He just, and he would only play two games out of the 20that we had because he knew that he could win them. 
So he wouldn't play anything different. 
If we were playing something different, he just wasn't going to play. 
So that's how it started. 
And within a year, he had completely turned that around and he became one of the most popular kids in my program. 
And a few years ago I started hiring students from my program to be teaching assistants in my program and he was one of them so he went from my most difficult student just the most stuck kid I've ever worked with to being a teaching assistant in my program and he's now in college yeah so that's he's my favorite story but it's when I ask him I'll ask him if he remembers what it was like when he started but anytime I ask a kid that they don't because they did not have the awareness at the time to be able to recognize if that makes sense they didn't have the self -awareness when they started to be able to see how far they've come and how different things are. 
So sometimes I have to remind them, Hey, five years ago, three years ago, 
two years ago. 
Um, yeah. Wow. 
Yeah. 
I did a nature journal class for an afterschool group and, you know, 
it was like, Hey, you know, did you guys hear anything while we were doing our sit spot? 
I heard nothing and I'm like wow we're I kind of it was picturing some of those kids when you were describing this kid but I heard from the teacher later on she said that because we did a nature journaling activity she was like some of the kids that don't normally participate were actually participating in this and I was like that just touched my heart so much but yeah having breakthroughs with that like that with kids is pretty amazing yeah with the name starfish social club do you enjoy the beach you know what I actually I grew up on the beach and couldn't care less um I I travel a lot I adventure a lot and I don't go to the beach intentionally it actually means nothing to me um so yeah starfish actually has nothing to do just the meaning behind the story then yeah where's your favorite spot to go outside I um where I live now there is a it's called mountain like a little mountain um just a few miles from my apartment and they you can go hiking there are all kinds of trails and I don't ever follow. 
They crisscross all over each other. 
So I just start walking and I walk until I feel like I'm done. 
And then there are signs that will tell you how to get back to the parking lot. 
And so I love when I find myself on a trail I've never been on before, 
because I go there, I mean, I go there two or three times a week, 
but I love finding myself like, oh, I've never been on this trail before. 
I've never been in this part of it before. 
So I love that just because it's so accessible to me. 
It's just a few miles away from my home. 
So I can go there multiple times a week. 
So that's, that would be my favorite just because it's right there. 
Nice. Yeah. It's important to have spots that are convenient to go. 
Do you have a favorite memory out in nature? 
Oh my gosh. 
I, I actually have started traveling a lot and doing a lot of road trips right now. 
Um, I've started doing a lot of national park trips, um, which is new to me. 
So, um, I did several in the last month. 
I'm leaving again tomorrow, um, to go do, I think four or five over the next few weeks. 
I, um, Utah, um, I spent some time in Utah. 
I love just the different landscapes in, in our world. 
I just think it's amazing how you can go from a canyon to an arch to the desert to the mountain. 
I just think just the different landscapes are so fascinating. 
And especially if you can throw in like the Grand Canyon with the different colors. 
Zion National Park, oh my gosh. 
Gosh it's I just think the world is so amazing just to look at just to sit there and look at it and just be amazed by it did you get to see the solar eclipse yes yes I actually um went to an elephant sanctuary a few hours away from where I live so where I live wasn't in the path of totality. 
But I could just drive a couple hours and be in it. 
And there's an elephant sanctuary. 
And so the weather was pretty sketchy that day. 
And so I thought, well, going to an elephant sanctuary, it's going to be an amazing day, 
whether I see the eclipse or not. 
And so I got to do the elephant sanctuary and then the sun came out and we got to see the eclipse. 
And the one last year I got to see in Santa Fe, I was in Santa Fe at the time of the one that was last fall. 
So. 
So I got to see both of them. 
Yeah, yeah. 
That is really neat. 
Were the elephants doing anything like unusual during totality? 
They put them all inside. 
So they had everybody go out into a big field and they put all the elephants inside, 
but you could hear them. 
They were trumpeting. 
So I think they were definitely affected by it because you could hear them making noises and stuff. 
But yeah, they had them inside. 
That is really neat. 
We had to drive a couple hours to, I mean, we didn't have to, 
we, the place that we ended up going to was a couple hours away. 
We could have gone like a half hour down the road, but we were, 
we saw totality. 
It was like out of this world, wasn't it? 
Like it's a whole experience. 
Somebody I was talking to today said that they miss it. 
And they're like, I'll just see a video or a photograph. 
I'm like, no, you don't understand. 
It is a whole sensory experience. 
Yes. And I mean, I think anything, anything having to do with nature is just amazing. 
I mean, it's just awe inspiring how the world works. 
I'm just fascinated by it. 
Yeah. And one of my students asked me when was the first eclipse? 
And, and so I was talking to him about how there've always been eclipses. 
There just haven't always been people to witness them. 
And there haven't always been people who can document them. 
But there have been eclipses, you know, for as long as there has been an earth and a sun and a moon, 
you know? 
So yeah, it is such a neat experience. 
Are you going to try and see any more in the future? 
I don't know. 
I have I have them saved as far as where they are. 
So yeah, we'll see. 
And obviously, it gets a lot more expensive when you're leaving your country. 
To go, you know, do something like that. 
So we'll see. 
I I'm a very random spontaneous person. 
This trip I'm leaving on tomorrow. 
I decided to go on yesterday. 
So the thought of planning something two years in advance, I don't even know where I'm going to live two years from now. 
Like how am I supposed to buy plane tickets when I don't even know where I'm going to be living? 
So yeah. 
Yeah. Yeah. Two years from now is like an eternity. 
Yes. Yeah. Those are the best trips though, that are just kind of unplanned and spontaneous. 
I was in San Antonio. 
My dad's like, cause my brother just moved to Florida from Ohio and he's like next week, 
let's go visit your brother. 
Can you make it work? 
And I'm like, yeah, I can make it work. 
Sign me up to travel anytime. 
Time. Yeah. So what is next for starfish social club? 
Do you guys have any big plans going on? 
We just transitioned to an online program, um, last August. 
So August of 2023,really we have been in San Antonio, Texas for seven years. 
Um, but really I wanted to be able to move. 
I don't, I don't live there anymore and I wanted to be able to travel. 
And so we're now an online program which has been I think a little hard for the San Antonio community for all my students that were there but it has given me the ability to work with students all over the place so in the Zoom program now we've got kids Ohio. 
California, Florida, New Jersey, I mean Boston you know we're able to have kids from all over and I'm able to do one -on -one sessions with kids I've talked to parents in Australia. 
I worked one -on -one with a student in the UK. 
So I think that's kind of, you know, where Starfish is moving is, 
is more global. 
So that services can be accessible to anybody, anywhere. 
Cause you know, what I'm teaching is not just American social skills, not just, 
you know, Texas social skills. 
So yeah, other than that, just like the rest of of my life. 
I have no idea. 
Yeah. Well, if somebody wanted to be a part of your online community, 
where can they find you at? 
Yeah. My website is starfishsocialclub .org. 
And so that's the easiest from there. 
You can, I have a podcast, Facebook page, YouTube. 
So you can get to all that. 
I do a weekly email. 
You can get to all that through starfishsocialclub .org. 
So that would be the easiest, easiest way. 
Yeah, I will be sure to tag that in the show notes. 
So people listening to the podcast can hop right over to your site. 
And before we go, what is one tip you have for someone who would like to connect with nature? 
I think back to our conversation about time, put it in your schedule, 
schedule a time, whether it's, you know, on your lunch break, taking a 30minute walk at the end of your evening, 
maybe after dinner, taking a walk. 
Sometimes it depends on your climate where you live, but I think scheduling it, 
figuring out what it is that you want to do, and then putting it actually into your calendar. 
Otherwise, we just tend to, it becomes unimportant if it's not scheduled. 
And I think starting where you live and starting with something that is easy for you to do. 
So is it easy for you to just put on your tennis shoes and go walk around your neighborhood for. 
30minutes. If that's easy, then start with that. 
And for me, you know, I, when I go two or three times a week, 
I'm gone for two hours. 
But I also have that time and not everybody does. 
So I think it's just finding what can you do that's easy that you will do. 
And for, it's different for all of us, you know, for some of us it's walking, 
for some of us it's, it's, you know, playing with our kids in the yard but what can you do that's easy that you will actually do well thank you so much and until next time get outside and see what develops thanks for joining wild development studio we hope this exploration into the world of wildlife arts and adventure has sparked a desire to get outside and connect with something wild if you have an adventure that's awe -inspiring sharing. 
Don't hesitate to share. 
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Until next time, keep connecting to the wild and see what develops. 
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