№9 – Perfumer&Flavorist+ and the World Perfumery Congress with Jenna Troyli

Perfumer&Flavorist+ is a multifaceted media platform that not only provides updates on the Flavor and Fragrance Industry but also democratizes information within the field. In this exciting episode, managing editor Jenna Troyli shares insights into her journey, the role of P&F+, and highlights the upcoming World Perfumery Congress. Whether you're a professional, journalist, or student, this episode offers valuable insights into the industry.

EPISODE LINKS:

• Stay updated with P&F+ website: https://www.perfumerflavorist.com
• Register for WPC:  https://worldperfumerycongress.com/

Jenna also mentions during the episode:

• IFRA Global Fragrance Summit
• DSM-Firmenich
• IFEAT Berlin Event
• Panel "Industry Insiders Talk Evolution of Synthetic Materials & Fragrances"
• Bath and Body Works
• Axe

Ever dreamt about going to space? Connect with Tanya!

• https://www.instagram.com/neparfumer/
• https://www.coachmironova.com/

Transcript

0:00

Kim Kardashian created this fragrance. No, there's a perfumer who made it and now these fragrance houses are starting to share that information and make these perfumers more like celebrities. uh Hi and welcome to Not a Perfumery podcast, where we talk about scents in relation to wellness, art and innovation. My guest for today's episode is Jenna Troyde. Jenna is the Managing Editor of Perfumer & Flavrist Plus. She is also the Conference Moderator for the World Perfumerry Congress. Jenna reports on the latest news, ingredients, regulatory updates and technologies in the flavor and fragrance industry. So Jenna, welcome. Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to be here. And also you may hear my cat as we go along. So she just let out a small meow as you were introducing. oh so beautiful. I guess I could also hear that, ah So, Janda, my first question to you is, like, when I was preparing for the episode, I was thinking, like, what is the best way to describe what perfume and flavor plus is to the listeners? Because maybe someone doesn't know that. And to me, like, the best analogy was that it does remind me of Vogue, but in the flavor and fragrance industry. Yeah, I love that. um I think that it's super funny because whenever anybody asks me what I do and I say, I'm a managing editor of Perfumer and Flavorous Plus, they go, so you're a perfumer and you make perfumes. No, can't. No, I'm not. you know, I think that and that's as far as it goes for them wanting to understand it. But so Perfumer and Flavorous Plus covers anything from the ingredients that Perfumer and Flavorous use because they a lot of times use the same flavor and fragrance houses. the technology that they use to make um their individual formulas, whether that's, and it's anything that smells good, not just perfume for fragrance specialists, it's deodorants, laundry care, home care, ambient scent. So ah all the way until who's making it. And those are the perfumers or the flavorists themselves. So I get to speak to them and see what trends are driving innovation behind the scenes, what kind of regulatory issues are happening and can um how they're navigating them. So that's kind of everything that I'm focused on for reporting. I do not make, I do not have a nose. I wish I did, but unfortunately I do not. You know, again, what you're saying is just seems like yet kind of thing because like in the movie the devil wears Prada. Yeah, so like and halfway she knew nothing probably about the fashion industry before joining it. But like since you've joined and I'm interested what have you been doing before that? Maybe like people who are asking you, well, maybe you are a perfumer. They're just like seeing the future. Oh, I like that. Hey, I don't mind that. Well, since I joined three years ago, and I've been to a lot of like round tables smelling ingredients and listening to the way that perfumers talk about how they could use a specific ingredient in a formula is really exciting to kind of see how their brain works and they consider themselves to be artists. And I completely agree in that way. Before this job. I was a food and drink editor for a newspaper in Florida. And then people were like, oh, so you're a restaurant critic. And I was like, no, no, no, I don't do that either. So yeah, so I was more on the flavor side. And now I get to be more on the fragrance side, which is so exciting because World Perfumery Congress is this summer. And I got to create a whole lineup of perfumer and fragrance specialists to talk about. like what's exciting right now. So it's really cool. call it you knew that it's something you liked and you just continued working in that. Yeah, I got really lucky, I think, because I was in kind of more like the restaurant side of reporting. And now I get to be on who's making it taste good in the first place. But also, like, I tell this story. And when I was in middle school, I would wear Bath and Body Works fragrances. And I didn't realize, obviously, someone's making that. And now I get to meet people who have made, like, iconic Bath and Body Works fragrances. So that's really cool to see the behind the curtain. Yeah. I wanted to ask about one more thing about the perfume and flavorist as a magazine. I remember because I started reading it back in, I guess, 2017. I was receiving it at paper. I lived in Sweden at the time, but I received it still from the States. I was so surprised by the fact that this is even possible. Are there still many people who do order it in... paper or you just don't even have it right now because I don't know I redidged it. Oh, no, yeah, you can get a paper copy. It's actually really funny whenever we go to international events, people are like, excuse me, why hasn't my paper copy showed up on my Dory yet? And I'm like, well, it's not the first, give it a couple of weeks, but it still comes and it's so exciting. And it's really nice to be able to see everything. Like when we do a profile of someone, they get to have a hard copy. And sometimes their moms are like, can I have your autograph? which I think is really sweet that these adults in the industry still are signing autographs for their parents. yeah, copies still exist and digital editions still come right to your email inbox, so whatever is your preferred choice of reading. And I need to ask what does plus stand for? And in what moment did it appear? Because I was pretty sure that it was perfume and flavorist all the time. And then now I discovered it's a plus. Yes, I loved during the uh intro you're like plus. So I appreciate that, which is super funny. It came right before I started. in 2020, it's pluses for like wellness. So there's been an entirely new wellness aspect added to both flavor and fragrance, especially during COVID-19 that, you know, functional fragrances were happening. So if you smell something, it'll make you feel better or like it make you happy and make you relax. So it's kind of things like that. We wanted to incorporate wellness, so that's where the plus comes in. Now it's clear, if at any point you decide to plus artificial intelligence, oh or It just keeps growing. Since you mentioned wellness as also one of the parts of the perfume and flavors today, how do you curate the topics for each ah magazine? That's a good question. It is funny though, too, because it is since it is a B2B magazine there those flavor asserts speaking such industry language that sometimes I have to be like, Can you break that down for me? What is the language? you, yeah. Tell me what that means. Because there are people who just are genuine uh lovers and who are genuinely like interested in the flavor and fragrance industry. So that has to just be more accessible. uh So that's something that we're actively working on, just so you know. But uh as far as our editorial calendar goes in the beginning, or sorry, more so like at the end of the year, we'll plan out kind of what's happening and what each issue will be. Usually May is our main issue, but Just because it sounds good may have been an issue. uh Shouldn't that love this wife like oh also fall the scene? oh Right. ah But this year, since we're going to be in Geneva for World Perfumerry Congress, that magazine is dedicated to World Perfumerry Congress. So it'll be switched this year. usually at the end of the year, we go, OK, what's trending right now and also what goes together? So there will be like a wellness issue where we talk about functional fragrances and we also talk about functional flavors. So just kind of pairing those to see which will go together and how we can kind of tap both industries in a similar direction. Does that make sense? Yeah, yeah, does. But do you have situations like a lot of people are writing you something, well, you always give these call for papers, like, I guess, two times a year, if I'm not wrong. sometimes, like, sends you something totally not related to the subject. And, well, accidentally, you think that it's interesting. So what do you do? Or do you try to still stick to some sketch and postpone stories like that? I see. All right. um No, I, if it's random, um usually we find a way to work it in to the issue anyway. There are always going to be some wild outliers in each issue that you can't help that just so happen to also be very timely. um But what's funny is that I work two months ahead of time. So right now my brain is in May because I'm doing the May issue. um So. That's my timeline's kind of always like that. But um like, for instance, in the March issue, it's supposed to all be about the future. And I had just met this author in Berlin during Iffiat, and he wanted to write about the history of a flavor and fragrance company that was around like a century ago. And I was like, well, it's really cool photos, and I want this to already be online. So let's just publish it with it. So I just kind of worked it in as like, While talking about the future, let's do a nod to the past. So, um, yeah, sometimes you just can't help it and it's just too good a content to let go, but we can usually put that online first and then see where it can work in, a future issue. I see. for the listeners who like just journalists who desperately want to write something for you, we should maybe highlight it that it's totally possible to send you uh any paper and you will just if your colleagues choose whether it's relevant or not. Absolutely, think even if it's over my head and it's someone who it's a very scientific paper We have a board of advisors who can look over it and say my gosh. I'd like to learn more. Let's put this in print Yeah, feel free to email me jtroyli at alura.com or There's a submission portal on our website too. So which chapter is easiest for you. But yeah, we're always taking submissions And just kind of keep in mind that we're working two months at a time. So if you want to pitch something, pitch it for June or beyond. thing is that seems like the goal of... if there is any goal for the perfume and flavors plus is just to keep the most updated... I don't even know how to put it better, to curate um the most uh relevant information from the industry or maybe you could somehow else put it better than me so like... Absolutely. So usually each issue we have, you know, the industry news section where we catch you up on who's new to the industry or has been promoted. We also talk about like new production sites like DSM Firmation just launched two new fragrance or perfumery ingredient production sites in France. So we'll have that an issue and then we start doing profiles and then we'll kind of touch on like, let me just think. In April, we have an extracts, em two extracts articles. And they're from Flavoris who are talking about how to utilize extracts now in the industry versus years ago. So it's kind of just talking about how things are evolving. So I mean, you're right. It's the most up-to-date information that we can give to the industry uh behind the scenes. people really for the makers, it's for the makers and for the brands out there looking to see what trends are driving these new. updates. So it's, you're not wrong. You're pretty spot on. I can't really update you. Anyways, thank you for just supporting what I said. But it does seem like maybe you also noticed during the last years and during the time you were in Perfume and Flavours Plus that we are really moving from secrecy to more openness. Like, have you really felt it in your work or it's just, yeah, some, well, we talk about this as a trend, but maybe it's nothing you've ever experienced. No, absolutely. And I think that it's something that's really exciting too. It used to be like, oh no, Kim Kardashian created this fragrance. No, there's a perfumer who made it. And now these fragrance houses are starting to share that information and make these perfumers more like celebrities and show their faces. So that's something completely new. Before that, maybe you'd have a perfumer go out on their own and create their own brand like Francise Kirkjian. who is incredible. um And then you're also having people who are still at the fragrance houses who are getting their own kind of spotlight now, which I think is really cool. It's not a secret for the listeners, so that the Feminine Flavoured Plus is not only as we now know a printed copy, digital edition, but also video casts and podcasts. What place does this take in your work? Yeah. Well, I think that as far as our podcasts and videocasts go, some people can get really fatigued just reading and they want to see people talking and hearing people talking because it makes for a more dynamic conversation. So those have been really exciting. Just a few months ago, I had Sumit Basin from Estee Lauder, Mark Knutowski, who was with Victoria's Secret. So that was great on the unnatural versus synthetic ingredients. So it was nice to have all of them in one place discussing rather than it just being another article. But yeah, so those are more for just kind of like to spice things up, but those are all on our website, not so much like you can't find them on Spotify, you can't find them anywhere else. So that is something that maybe we're thinking about working on, but we also have webcasts where people can You log in for free, or you register for free, and people will kind of walk you through their presentation. Sometimes they have samples from companies, which are cool. So that's something to look into if you are a perfumer. Just kind of be on alert for those webcasts that have samples. So then you can go along and smell with their creators. It's pretty cool. Yeah, something new for me as well. yeah, that's interesting. So it's like, you know, more sort of community which gathers at your website and there you could just get what you want. Do you want to listen? Do you want to see something? Do you want to smell something eventually? So yeah, it's cool place. So that's why I understand that maybe you don't even need Spotify or maybe you don't even need other channels because they are and they will maybe take portion of these people. That's true, that's a good point. I know. It's worth kind of looking into. I think that it's exciting, it's like, okay, here's the link if you want to listen. So we'll see. Yeah, yeah, totally. And I have probably last question about your work as a managing editor, because further we will go to the World Perfumery Congress. But this question is uh maybe a bit personal, but was there maybe one topic or anywhere in flavors or in fragrances, which you've changed your attitude towards completely during your work? So maybe, like as an example, thought that Synthetics is bad and now you know that, yeah, it's not that simple or something else. Yeah, that's a really good question. I guess I'll kind of hop on that train of what you just mentioned. Not so much that I thought synthetics were bad, but I didn't really understand what that word meant. And I think that for so long, it's had like a negative connotation around it. So when I spoke with perfumers and fragrance creators about it, that it's really just. another word for like an alternative or something that can help one elongate the fragrance, especially when there are, you know, natural disasters happening. What are you going to do? You can have a replacement. It's not, doesn't mean that it's not good for you. It just means that it's different from natural, but trying to mimic the same things. So I think that that's been really interesting to see that really heat up, especially with social media. Now you have so many of these influencers who don't necessarily have all the facts behind the claims that they're making, which is Pretty tough. Yeah, something you've talked about with the guests who've mentioned, we definitely will leave a link to these videocasts. I guess it's called videocast. Yeah. I just liked that. It was a sort of a panel, but like video panel. Yeah. Understand. So we're talking about the Congress, the next big thing or maybe the biggest thing. So like it's probably the second Congress for you or because... That's right. Yeah. Yeah, my second congress. Yeah, and the first overseas. First overseas, that's right, the first overseas for me. stalker in your uh Instagram. I saw that you've been to Geneva already to probably see the spots and everything. you stalked my personal insta- guess it was the only thing I discover. it's open! It is. It's public. Because when you take Janet Rooney, it's one of the things you see in Google. So just for you to know, I guess you've never Googled yourself. It's only celebrities do that. That's so funny. No, no, no. Yeah, it's true. I've been to Geneva twice and it's beautiful. I've been in the summertime and I've been in the winter. uh I'm really excited about going back. PalExpo is massive. Have you ever been to PalExpo? They usually have like car uh expeditions there. they fit entire cars on the floors. have watch expeditions, of course, because it's Switzerland. So yeah, it'll be really great. Yeah. I think it'll be good. Yeah. but I need to ask why did you decide on Switzerland? Because the last time I joined the Congress it was in 2018, it was in Nice. So yeah, I could imagine like France, Switzerland, the fragrance and flavor industries, why Switzerland and have you thought about it for like for a while? Right. eh No, it's funny because that was decided before I came on staff, but it's a topic that is always discussed, especially when we're saying we're going to Geneva and people are like, but Nice was so amazing. And yes, it was so amazing. And we had record breaking attendance, but now like the convention center there is just too small for what we're going to put on, which is unfortunate. But I think that uh maybe they're going through construction or something eventually, but But it's really not big, comparing what you said about the Pala Expo now, it was pretty small, guess, for the car exhibition, it would be visible. Absolutely. So I think that this kind of came up as an opportunity and it made sense because some of the fragrance houses do end up having some of their headquarters in Geneva. So I think that that worked out. But um really, I just think that at the time it was somewhere new and easy for Europeans and kind of people who aren't in the US as a quicker trip to get to. So that's kind of the gist. Yeah, but I think it's wise enough to have like each second congress in Europe and each like each first like yeah, you got me But I wanted to ask maybe for for the listeners who don't know ah Who is this event for like generally? Absolutely. So one, it's for journalists. uh We love to have press. Let me know if you're a press person working in the fragrance industry and we can set you with a press pass. ah But it's for the makers of fragrances, so perfumers, uh people who are sourcing ingredients, because there's a massive expo hall that has all of the latest ingredients at all of our exhibitor stands, which is really exciting for you to walk around and go and smell and meet people from the industry. um It's for producers, it's for buyers, it's really it's for everyone in the fragrance industry and we also have conference sessions as well as the expo hall. Days worth of conference sessions. Yeah, I'm really excited. Yeah, I see. So basically for everyone, like, asked about it, because you know that right now there are a few other events which are like... Now the Swedish word comes to me, like, they exist in the world, exist the end. So uh yeah, are other events, like, which are here. But to me, the World Perfumer Congress is totally unique, just because it's like what you've said, you worked uh previously with the restaurants in your previous job. more on the restaurant side, as you've said. And now you're closer to what brings ingredients to the restaurant, essentially. And same for me with the World Perfumer Congress. Yes, we do have Exxon's, yes, we do have PT Florence, which again, try to be reminiscent of the World Perfumer Congress to me. I mean, now they also have like panel experts, they have sessions, they do have all that kind of stuff. But like the roots seem to be are a little bit further from them than from you because you do like your other roots probably and the people who you work with are exactly those who produce what is going to be in the restaurant business further on. Yeah, absolutely. So thank you for that compliment and World Perfumery Congress. uh But yeah, we're, a lot of these stands have the direct source to lavender fields and they're showing you kind of what those latest ingredients are. And you know, if you can't get that here, you can try this. And uh so I think for those makers who want to see where things come from and talk to people how things are sourced, which is also a really big topic right now, where are my ingredients being sourced and how? This is a really important place to be to get to see the behind the scenes and get to be face to face with people who maybe you've been emailing and you don't know what their face looks like. So now you get to introduce yourself or maybe you're a perfumer looking for a position. All of the major fragrance houses are there and you also will get to meet your fellow colleagues. So yeah, it's just, it's a really great place to not only get to see the ingredients and technologies that are new out there, but also learn from people who've been in the industry for decades and have so much that are willing to give either on stage or off stage. Thank you for these comments and yeah, I also remember like, yeah, six years ago, it was so long ago. But indeed, like I, by the way, I visited as a student at that time and I really appreciated that it was possible for this category of people to again visit for a reduced price and yeah, also like see everything you've just mentioned. And I know that this year is also possible for students as well to visit the events and to write to you directly, Jenna. I'm a student. I do need to see all that. Absolutely, and even if you, you know, if you're a student and you want to just walk around all day and explore, we really just kind of need confirmation that you're a student, great. And then, or if you'd like to volunteer and you want to see more behind the scenes of the event, you can do that too. So. That was my next question. Yeah. Because I do remember volunteers from the first event. were so like first for me. They were so lovely. Yeah. Yeah, we can always use people to pass out samples, which is so great, or direct people, or come through. We'll figure it out. But if that's something that anyone is interested in, I'm happy to facilitate. Do you have a big team right now supporting you or yeah because yeah, it seems like a lot of work It is a lot of work. We have, I would call it like a small but mighty team. Everyone is really excited to get to it. We're also working with the American Society of Perfumers to put this on. So they've been really great in talking about, you know, what's relevant right now and maybe who we should be looking out for as far as who should take the stage. So um it's been a real team effort to get this together, but I mean, we're three months away now. And you're also in May already as a nemesis. Don't bring that up. Yeah, so technically I only have one month. No, but it's uh been a really great time. And I'm excited to actually see all of it come together after all of this work we've put into it. And also like the first Congress in Europe after the COVID and everything because yeah, 16 years ago we just had it and yeah. Right. It's wild too because I remember in Miami, a lot of people just couldn't come whether they weren't comfortable or they weren't able to travel yet. So that's something too. So this will be really robust and I'm excited to see all of my friends who I haven't seen in a while. So it'll be good. Now feel like I also need to register. I mean, not that I... have a press pass with your name on it, so just let me know. So it's beautiful. Thank you, Jenna. Wow. I could not ask before the bleed section. Have you already planned a vacation after the event? Are you staying in Europe uh or? I would love that. wish. I feel like my brain isn't even there yet, but yeah, I think that that's, be much needed. We'll figure it out. I was just in LA for a few days. I was in Los Angeles for a week and a half, sorry. And I came back kind of rested, but almost more tired. So we'll see. Maybe I'll do that again. Mm, yeah, I know it's like there are two, to me at least, two different types of vacation, like the one when you really don't do anything and the one which is very active, very inspiring, but not very resting. No. Right. I come back, you can't tell, but internally I feel better. So maybe that's enough. eh Yeah, sometimes it's enough, I would agree. Well, Jenna, many thanks for your answers, but I have a few more questions. Oh! Those are gonna be sort of bleeds questions, so you could answer the first thing which comes to your mind, but feel free to think it over, because they seem like bleeds questions, but if you've never thought about them, they might not be like that on the surface. Okay! oh Yeah, so number one. favorite fragrance. Gosh, my favorite fragrance. Geez. Well, I think that I'm just going to go nostalgic with this. And maybe I hope you've experienced this. When I was in middle school, Bath and Body Works had gourmand fragrances really coming out. So was like sweet pea and cucumber melon. Did you have these? Oh my God. been that popular, I guess, Russia where I was at that time. But yeah. So no, but in the girls locker rooms, like after gym class, all you would smell was sweet pea and cucumber melon. And I think that those will forever be ingrained in my brain. So I would say that as far as like favorite nostalgic fragrance goes, that's kind of my favorite. Cool, sounds cool. two top ingredients um in fragrances right now. What's most interesting to you, like to see whether it's gonna work, whether it's gonna be popular. was just speaking with Henri Blanc from uh DSM for Méniche, who's a principal perfumer there. She's amazing. And she brought up a really good point with Gen Z right now, they're kind of flipping all of these gender normativities, because everything can just be gender neutral now. But she says that she's seeing a lot of, you know, men more wearing florals and wearing rose where women are wearing vetiver and musk. So I love that happening because it doesn't matter what it is, if it fits you, if you love the way that you smell, then that should be the way that things go. So I think that that's been a really interesting change in what's trending right now. Yeah, yeah, it sounds good. I mean, like my favorite fragrance is a vet's severe you want. yeah, discontinued, unfortunately, but was originally made for men by again, DCM Firminish, by Firminish, but not DCM. yeah, because it's a very nice company for Firminish. So your guilty pleasure fragrance. And if you like you feel it's so... bad to tell in public that you like it and you wear it, but you still have it. Like it and wear it and still have it. That's interesting. I mean, I think, and I'll bring it back to probably high school again, just because so many people usually say that it's bad or say that it's with a bad association. Axe body spray. I love Axe body spray. The Guman one or not? Because this is the only one I know. Oh, there's I don't know? There was such a chocolate taste. It's that one. I mean, I'm not proud of it, but it's just something that brings me back to being like, my gosh, I'm in high school and all of these new boys are around. So maybe that's my problem of my idea. it's so beautiful that you know and you could tell about it. Alright, if you could create a signature scent for perfume and flavors, what would it smell like? Geez Louise, this is gonna be hard. These are good questions. Oh my gosh, this is so crazy. I would probably do something, I'll just kind of do more like notes maybe. So maybe like a citrusy kind of note to keep things like bright and... fresh, just because we like to touch on all the latest topics in the industry. But I'd also kind of like to do something like a little bit more refined because we've been around for like a century or more than a century. So it has to be something that has a little bit. So I don't know if all of these things will go together, but maybe like a vanilla because whenever I think vanilla, think kind of like refined. paper smells with vanilla to me at least Right, yes, ooh, like that. Yeah, I think I'll probably do something like that. Something a little bit refined, but also bright and can kind of shake things up. So I'll say like a citrusy vanilla, if that's okay. Sounds great to me. I don't think we need to add anything else. Of course there will be some other bass notes, pick us how else, but anyways. I'll leave that to the professionals. So maybe you remember a favorite article you've written or edited for Perfumer Flavors Plus. something new. Like I have personally an episode I've been working for more than a week just to edit it. It's not my favorite, but it was so important to do that. So I remember it. Maybe something else. gosh, I feel that same way about so many things that I'm like, oh, why is this taking so long? But I want to make sure that all the care goes into it. that's hard. I think that I'll pick a moment that I was maybe most proud of myself in this industry, which was when I went to do the panel for IFRA for their global summit. And they asked me to come and talk about kind of the consumer side. And I was practicing. all of my answers, all like, because I got asked maybe like three weeks before I went. So I only had three weeks to kind of prepare. I was kind of told my questions and I was like, okay, I'm going to do this. This is going to be great. I get on stage. They asked the first question and then they opened it up to the audience. So everything was just audience questions, but I, but it all worked out and I was really proud of myself for like being prepared and like flying to Geneva and like, doing this panel, but for the first time ever for Perfumer and Flavors Plus, we've never been incorporated in an Infra Global Summit. So that was a big deal. But that was like anxiety at an all time high. oh The last question for now. You're doing fantastic. What piece of advice would you give to aspiring writers or professionals um who want to write maybe for your magazine or for other magazines like future journalists maybe? Yeah, I love that question. em Well, I think that, you know, if you're still in the beginning stages, if you're still in school to find a mentor, I was really lucky to find a mentor who worked at a newspaper. She had worked there maybe like 10 years. She had left that company maybe 10 years before I met her, but she knew how to. write for them if I ever wanted to pitch something. She kind of gave me those tips of what I needed to learn and what I needed to kind of hone in on for my skills. So if you find someone who's already been where you've been or would been where you'd like to go, make that your mentor. um I would say I recently read some of my old writing, which has been very hard to look at. ah But that's important just to see where you've been and where you've gone. Read a lot. especially if you want to write for a certain publication, kind of see what their voice is like. And it also helps you like learn new words about the industry that you're into. But um if you're looking to write for Perfumer and Flavors Plus specifically, I would just go through our website and kind of see, you know, is there anything missing that you want to talk about? um Look at our media calendar. Do you have a relationship with a perfumer that you could do? interview with, I don't think enough people pitch that to do an interview with someone from the fragrance industry. And it's kind of hard to get in to get those connections. But if that's something that you want and something that I can help facilitate, please reach out. I'm always open to helping journalists. uh yeah, any way that I can facilitate that I'm happy to or even if you you send in a pitch and it's not a perfect fit, I can kind of help you tailor that or tell you who else would be a better fit for that article. Seems like we have an angel in our podcast today. Yeah, John, I couldn't be more thankful to you for all your answers. And it's so great to have you and meet you. Like, I'm very happy today. Thank you. Yes, absolutely. Thanks for having me. I was so pleased when you reached out. So happy to be here.