Cogent Conversations
Welcome to Cogent Conversations, a new podcast that explores the dynamic world of emergency management in sports. This podcast features special guests from the medical field to talk about practical strategies, challenges, and success stories that they encounter while navigating the unpredictable terrain of emergency care.
Cogent Conversations
Ep. 18: Inside the Game-Day Duties of NFL Spotters
In this episode of Cogent Conversations, Dr. Shelly Weinstein sits down with Brian McGuire, who serves as the lead athletic trainer for the NFL Scouting Combine as well as an injury spotter in the league’s Player Health and Safety Program. Brian takes listeners behind the scenes of the combine, explaining the evolving role of athletic trainers in protecting athletes and highlighting the importance of preparation, communication, and emergency action planning at every level of sport.
He offers an inside look at how spotters work behind the scenes to protect players and shares insights on how the role has evolved, the technology and training that support it, and why spotters are a crucial part of game-day safety in the NFL.
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SPEAKER_00:everyone and welcome back to another Cogent Conversation. I'm Dr. Shelley Weinstein, owner of Cogent Steps, and with me today is our guest, Brian McGuire, a retired United States Marine Colonel and currently serves as the head of the United States Marine Corps Human Performance Branch in Quantico, Virginia. I'd also like to add that Brian was a member of the CrossFit Game Safety Advisory Board and a member of the National Strength and Conditioning Association's Blue Ribbon Panel on Military Readiness. Brian also serves in two key positions in the National Football League. He's the lead athletic trainer for the NFL Scouting Combine and has been involved with that since 2008. More recently, since 2017, he serves as one of the Player Health and Safety Program Athletic Trainer Injury Spotters, but he also just received a recent promotion, and we'll talk a little bit about that. Welcome, Brian.
SPEAKER_01:Good afternoon, Shelley. Thanks for having me.
SPEAKER_00:So before we get started, as I do with all of our guests, I'd like to give you a chance to offer any disclosures that you need to offer to make sure that we stay within the rules of all of our organization.
SPEAKER_01:Thank you, Shelley. Any opinions or views I express on my own that are not the official position of the NFL, the Marine Corps, Department of Defense, and my participation in the podcast is not an official endorsement of Cogent Steps and Cogent Conversations.
SPEAKER_00:Thank you very much. So let's kind of take this back to the beginning, Briar. You and I have known each other for a long time. First met you many, many years ago when you were with the military and doing some work with the athletic trainers. But let's start at the beginning. Why did you decide to become an athletic trainer?
SPEAKER_01:Well, I was a good, not great athlete in high school, but I enjoyed all what sports gave me. And I had an interest in the health sciences and interest in sports and the health sciences intersected. And that led me to pursue the athletic training undergraduate program. And here I am.
SPEAKER_00:So what types, growing up as an athletic trainer, what types and levels of athletes did you work with?
SPEAKER_01:It's, of course, starting college and I went into the military. I received my Marine Corps commission in 1986, was on active duty from that time until 1990, left the active duty, continued in the reserves. And I, you know, from 93 to 2001, the first four years of that, I worked at the Emory Clinic in Atlanta, Georgia, then moved over to the university where I was the associate director of athletics for sports medicine and the head athletic trainer and oversaw the delivery of sports medicine services to 17 different sports and around 360 athletes. So ranging baseball, basketball, tennis, track and field. I'm going to miss them here. Swimming, a bunch of others. But that was it at the collegiate level. And we'll talk more about the NFL beginnings here soon, I'm sure.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. So college athletes at various levels. So let's talk a little bit about how you broke in to the professional athletes and what you do with the NFL. And I want to start with your role in the Combine, which is pretty interesting. And that's become big business, right? That's televised now. We see a lot. But as always with sports, we never see the backside of things, right? What has to go on to get these athletes ready. So can you tell us a little bit about how you got involved with the Combine and what your role is in that?
SPEAKER_01:Well, sure. Well, one of my early mentors at Salisbury University, Hunter Smith, He later became the Indianapolis Colts head athletic trainer for 25 years. And we stayed connected over the years during my military career. And as the scouting combine grew, especially the on-field events, it outpaced the capacity of the Colts athletic training staff to cover and support. They wanted their focus to be more on the medical aspect of the combine. So Colts brought in other athletic trainers to work with the athletes, participating in the on-field skills and drills. And I was lucky. to be one of them selected to work at the Combine and I've been doing it ever since 2008.
SPEAKER_00:What does that week look like or the time? So can you kind of take us through the preparation for the Combine through the actual, again, kind of what we see on TV that is now big ratings. So take us through what that looks like with the Combine as an athletic trainer.
SPEAKER_01:Well, sure. My focus and that of my team is on the on-field skills and drills is what you see mainly on TV. There's There's plenty more to the Combine. Really, more of it is related to the off-field meetings, interviews, et cetera, and testing. And so what it looks like for a particular one player in a certain group, he will arrive on, let's say, Monday. They will do orientation to the Combine. They'll get exposure from the league representatives on what to expect at the Combine, as well as what to expect as they lead up to the draft There are interviews with the teams, the coaches, the GMs, et cetera, other testing that goes on. And they also have not just interviews with the teams, but interviews with the media. And that is largely covered as well. But that leads up to the on-field skills and drills, which, again, that's what me and my team of four athletic trainers focus on.
SPEAKER_00:So when you talk about that testing that's taking place before and kind of in the background, what kind of testing are they do? Are there physicals? Is it VO2 max? What is happening behind the scenes? Is it more physiologic stuff or is it other things?
SPEAKER_01:It's both the physical and mental aspects. What I'm more involved with or related to are the medical screenings and really think of pre-participation physicals, although it's really more than that. It's reviewing the athlete's history over their collegiate career and they get a chance to discuss their history with the medical providers from the teams.
SPEAKER_00:Nice. All right. So talk to us a little bit about those skills and drills. That's right, the public-facing side of what we see. And what is the role of, specifically of you, but of the medical staff during those skills and drills?
SPEAKER_01:Well, to go to the first part of that question, it's really position-specific. You will see a lot of, in the case of the wideouts, a bunch of different patterns. They're getting evaluated on their ability to change direction, to run routes, to the vertical jump, et cetera. Those are the position drills. The other drills include vertical jump, broad jump, center reach testing, and of course, the 40-yard dash. And there are other parts of it, but think that not all the athletes do the very same drills. For example, a lineman wouldn't do what the wide outs do. Let's
SPEAKER_00:hope not.
SPEAKER_01:So, right. But it changes every year. Like I like to say, you never step in the same combine river twice. It's always changing. It's great to be part of that. They're always assessing, analyzing, modifying their procedures as necessary. But that's the big picture of it, Shelley.
SPEAKER_00:I imagine that there is a lot of data that comes out of that, that the teams then distill down to look for what they need, to find the best fits for what they need for their teams as well. And as you said, very position specific. And we're starting to see that even in pre-participation physicals at other levels, right? We're starting to realize that alignment is not the same as a running back, is not the same. Although we need to make sure medically they're all clear, there are certain things that pertain more to one particular position than another position. So I imagine the data must just be incredible coming out of a combine.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. It is, Shelley. And the data that's gathered at the Combine complements all what the scouts have been collecting over the college years of the athletes who were selected to go to the Combine. So the data collection doesn't start and end at the Combine. It proceeds that by at least three years in the case of the football players who must spend at least that much time in college. So there's a lot of data, yes, that is gathered. And that all leads to draft decisions that is televised and the public gets to see some of that as well. And in between the combine and the draft show, there's also what's called a pro day. And that is another chance for the athletes to show off their skills to the teams that are interested in them. So there's a number of opportunities for the athlete to show his skills as the draft decision years.
SPEAKER_00:Great. Who else, Brian, is involved from a medicine standpoint? So you mentioned that some of the things they do beforehand, there's a mental aspect. So I imagine there's some mental health or psychology people involved looking and talking to some of these athletes. Are there physicians of various kinds there? Or is it kind of who else in the medical sphere is involved in the combine?
SPEAKER_01:Well, just as the complex or the medical complement of the team's interdisciplinary, that is what you'll see also at the combine as you're doing the evaluation. So you'll see the orthopedist, primary care, physical therapists, the athletic trainers are coming along as well. And so it's really what you'll see at the club level, they bring some portion of that footprint to the combine to aid in the meta evaluations now again my focus and that of my my team of athletic trainers is on the on field skills and drills and we you know we do some uh you know preparation for the athletes as they request but they those who are participating in the skills and drills come in a pretty healthy state so it's not you know there's not a whole lot of um treatment that we do like at the stadium they come ready we'll help them out uh get ready and we're also of course we uh we were respond should there be an injury. I'm involved in the development and implementation of the Emergency Action Plan, the EAP, and that has evolved over the years. So, you know, thankfully, most of the injuries at the Combine are strains and strains of, you know, because there's no, you know, there's no contact. It's not environmental challenges. But over the years, we've had some emergency situations that have needed emergency response.
SPEAKER_00:Great. I love that you said emergency I think I've been able to get that into every podcast I have done. It is something of mine that I think is very important. It needs to be written. It needs to be used. The NATA talks about, you know, has such wonderful papers on how to put them together. And it's actually one of the skills that we make our students do when they take our classes. We give them a team and a location and they actually have to write an emergency action plan because it is something that is that important and needs to be used. So thank you for mentioning that. That just makes me happy for my listeners to hear that.
SPEAKER_01:That's good to hear, Shelly, because there are no routine emergencies, but there are routines for emergencies. And we're lucky to have a very solid crew of professionals who support us during the
SPEAKER_00:event. That's awesome. Awesome. So now I'd like to turn to your role as an injury spotter with the NFL and their player health and safety program. But as we start that, I'd like you to talk, because I believe you recently just took on a promotion. I think that might be the correct word in the region. So can you tell us a little bit about what your new role is in that position?
SPEAKER_01:Well, I've been an athletic trainer injury spotter since 2017. And this year I was named to be the lead AT spotter for the crew in DC. And really that's a, you know, chief among equals sort of title. We, you know, we all do the same thing. I'm more involved in scheduling and interviews, but largely Again, I'm one of four, but I'm involved more now in the scheduling and interviews for open positions.
SPEAKER_00:So you've been a spotter since 2017. How long has the program existed in the NFL? It goes back a little bit earlier than that, right?
SPEAKER_01:2012.
SPEAKER_00:And it has evolved a little bit, or quite a bit, I think, in some ways. So can you talk about, and I know this has gotten more stringent, what is required to be a spotter for the NFL? And again, I think the this goes to having the best fit for the person that needs to do this job?
SPEAKER_01:National Athletic Trainers Association Board of Certification certified at least 10 years working as an athletic trainer. And what the league is seeking is sustained and significant experience working in football at high levels. Now, there are some of the parameters that there must be some distance between an athletic trainer spotter and working with a club. And that is important because we are, we're not affiliated with clubs. We're, we're league employees. So we are, that's an important distinction that I think, you know, when I discussed this with folks who are interested that some may, may think in my case, you know, we work in DC that we're employed by the commanders. That's not the case. And that's, that's, we're employed by the league. And that's, that's the true, true as well for the injury video replay system operator as well as the neuro trauma, unaffiliated neuro trauma consultants. So we are, again, not employed by the team or we are employed by the National Football
SPEAKER_00:League. Thank you. So can you talk a little bit about the initial training that you have to go through as a spotter and then kind of the ongoing training? Because I imagine things change and we've heard about updates throughout the years, sometimes in the middle of the season, sometimes at the end of the season when they've implemented a new rule or done different things. So can you talk a little bit about the training pipeline that you have to go through?
SPEAKER_01:I do. And I think, you know, it's a blend of self-paced training, but the, you know, the stock and trade for what we do, we have plenary training during the off season and the leadership from the player health and safety program. We do it in a venue similar to what we're doing now. We go over the current protocols. We review, you know, data for from previous years. And also we go over changes. And there have been some changes. We won't cover them all here. But as I mentioned with the combine, I hope this isn't trite by this point, but you never step in the same NFL season. It's always changing. Or you never step in the same NFL season river. It keeps changing and for the better. So in the last couple of years, one of the changes was that we now, we chronicle or catalog the non-injury head impacts. And that is curated by a team. And that helps with largely getting the head out of the game. And that goes into recommendations for rule changes and other aspects as well. So always analyzing, assessing, and modifying if warranted.
SPEAKER_00:And then what about recurrent training? Do you have to say, do you have to do so many games a year? How do you keep your competence up as an NFL spotter?
SPEAKER_01:Good question. The AT spotters are required to work at least four games a year. And that is a standard which gives a reasonable assurance that the individual is accumulating as the time goes on in their tour, so to speak, as a spotter with different game situations. And they remain relevant and current in all of the different changes that a And also it just gives confidence that the AT spotters are gaining the requisite experience to continue on. So at least four games a year. And I mentioned the summer plenary training, but there's also other training that the NFL requires, ethics training and other important training related to human resources, et cetera. But also during the season, there are periodic meetings, which, you know, which serve to clarify, you know, points of emphasis and, you know, bring folks attention to areas that need attention and also to reinforce, you know, the good things that happen throughout the year.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so it's very dynamic, it sounds like, very dynamic.
SPEAKER_01:Just recently, I need to add that the player health and safety leadership have implemented a very interesting simulation training where the AT spotters are, they're given a scenario, their provided a video and they're given you know just about as much time as you would get during a game to make a call on what what to do and as as we go through the questions i'll explain you know what we are looking for as an at spotter but you asked about training shelly and that really has the simulation component has really been a good addition to the
SPEAKER_00:oh i imagine that just has to literally be game changing if you're really getting true experiences and the timeframe So the, you know, a little bit of the stress, but really, you know, it's very reality based, which I think is very important for them.
SPEAKER_01:It is. And it's not a, the simulation scenarios aren't a giveaway either. And you have to really, you know, go in understanding what triggers a communication and what doesn't. So very, very good enhancement to our training.
SPEAKER_00:Nice. So can you talk a little bit more, Brian, about the technology that you all use during, so you're, I know you're, you're upstairs in a booth where you have good view of the field. Can you talk a little bit to us about what's in front of you? Take us through kind of a game day scenario when you get there. I imagine there's some meetings and some group talk that has to happen. Can you kind of take us through what your day is like when you get ready to start covering a game?
SPEAKER_01:Well, sure. We're required to arrive three hours before the game, and that gives us a chance to coordinate and sync with the the injury video replay system operators to shake out any changes in communications, just get an assessment that the booth is set up for game operations. And it also gives us time to prepare for a very important part of the gaming operations on the medical side. And that's a 60 minute medical meeting. And that is a meeting that is an interdisciplinary gathering of the team physicians, team athletic trainers, the UNCs, the airway physicians, the EMTs assigned to the games, the officials primarily, they come out and ask who the athletic trainers are. And we have really just face-to-face interaction. They hear our voice, we hear theirs. That's coupled with radio checks that we do later on. But the three hours for the game show, it gives us a really good opportunity to settle in, get into the the mindset that has been set by the training conditions that we've all benefited from. So that meeting is very key in having everybody understand what each other is doing and what their role is in the EAP. That really has matured over the years, and we have great examples. You saw it at the conference in Atlanta, how that all came together in the We make it better every year. So the 60-minute meeting. In between 60 minutes and game time, we are doing radio checks, again, to ensure that the comms are ready without a hitch. And there's other checks that we do. We call down to do radio checks with the clubs because there's that communication as well. So that's what we do before the game. Would you like me to proceed on what we do during the game?
SPEAKER_00:So I'd like to just add a point. to that for our listeners. So, you know, again, NFL game, the big 60 minute meeting, but I tell our sports providers all the time, whether it's a high school volleyball game or a youth soccer, you know, before the game starts, you as the sports provider, the AT on the field should be, you know, reminding your coaches, the official will usually come over and ask who the medical person is, remind you who allows you to come out onto the field, right? A little bit different. You're sitting up in the booth, but that medical timeout before the game is always important. So everyone's got a visual with an eye to eye. Who do I look for? I tell people all the time when they start covering sports, I'm not watching the game to watch the game. I'm watching the athletes for injury. And so I think that it's, this just hits home how serious this has taken, even at a level where everyone's very professional, but it still needs to be done and it still needs to be prepped before every game. So it's just very important. It's one of the key things that God forbid, should something happen, everyone is ready. And I think You know, we all saw that if you were watching the game with DeMar Hamlin, how well that was carried out. And I'm sure in part because of all the training and the meetings and the rehearsals that go over and over again, that made the difference in someone's life.
SPEAKER_01:Sure did. And I don't want to forget the role of NFL operations. There's a representative there at the 60-minute meeting, and they're busy throughout the game, but they play an important role during that meeting as well. Security is part of it. You know, the x-ray techs, the way I could go on, it really is kind of a, you know, a very, very good interdisciplinary interaction of all those different providers.
SPEAKER_00:And so whether it's, you know, downsized to a small high school game or all the way up to the NFL, I think there's still a lot of takeaways that people can get from what you're telling us here today that can be valuable when they're providing support to youth or, you know, levels of athletics that are not professional, that are just as important to take care of. So thank you. Let's talk about, so now take us, so we've had the meeting, you've done your comms check. So what happens next?
SPEAKER_01:Okay. Well, my role in that of the other spotters is to observe play, monitor the broadcast feed and other camera angles that we have available to identify athletes who may potentially be injured on a play with an emphasis on the head and neck injuries. What we're looking for with head and neck injuries is a head impact that causes an injury behavior that suggests concussion. And that's really the two together. It's not just head impacts. I mentioned earlier, Shelly, that we are cataloging non-injury head impacts. But if we call down on every head impact without an injury behavior, you can see where that goes. And certainly the equipment has gotten better that mitigates the injury part of it.
SPEAKER_00:So if you You radioed down to the head athletic trainer because you saw head impact or concussion behavior. What happens then?
SPEAKER_01:Well, the athlete is then put into the blue tent and evaluated by the unaffiliated neurotrauma consultant and the team physician. They make a determination of whether the athlete needs to be further evaluated in the locker room or based on what their clinical exam shows is either ruled out of the game or returned to the game. You know, the threshold is low to do that. As long as there's two, really three elements, one, head impact, concussion behavior, and the athlete trying to return to the game, we have the authority to call down to make that medical timeout.
SPEAKER_00:So, Brian, how do the videos, you've talked about all this great technology, but how do the videos assist the UNC and the team physicians in their evaluations?
SPEAKER_01:Thank you, Shelley. They were able to see near real time of what the injury mechanism was along with the type of concussion behavior that necessitated our call down to the sideline. And after all the times that we call down, whether it's where we radio down or whether we call medical timeout, once the evaluation is completed, they make the determination, they call us and close what's termed closing the loop. And that's a very important part of the process because that gives everybody the understanding that the the evaluation has happened and that the determination has been made. Now, in a very rare circumstance, if an athlete returns to the field and the loop has not been closed, we are required to call down to make another medical timeout to ensure that part of the process has been taken care of.
SPEAKER_00:Okay. So that's a lot of moving parts to make sure. And who all is involved in closing the loop? Like what are all the different parties that are part of that? Can you just clarify who that is?
SPEAKER_01:Well, the, the decision-making that leads to the evaluation is the UNC, the team physician. And before the game, I talked earlier in the meeting here today, we talked, you know, the 60 minute meeting in there is where we determine who closes the loop and it differs by team. It can be the head athletic trainer. It can be, the team physician or the UNC. And it's just a matter of their comfort level. That is determined before the game so we know who that individual is.
SPEAKER_00:Right. So again, all these pieces linked together from what you talked about earlier, the meeting beforehand, the practicing, the discussion. So everything at the end of the day is closed and there's good understanding on everyone's part.
SPEAKER_01:Yes. And I mean, the different scenarios, I've covered a couple of them where when we radio down, it's where we see the injury and the mechanism and behavior. We will call down if the athlete is walking off the field and as a change of possession or a substitution, we see it, we call it down. Or if an athlete is being evaluated on the field after a head impact and concussion behavior, even though it would be obvious to everybody in the stadium and watching on TV what has happened, a helmet impact or head impact with a concussion behavior, we still call that down. Now, we don't do that while the athlete is being walked off the field by the athletic training staff. We wait. A reasonable interval has happened when things when the athlete has been moved to the sideline again to direct the evaluation to occur. And again, I may have covered this earlier, but if the athlete is trying to return to the huddle or return to play after having the helmet, the head impact and the concussion behavior, that is what triggers the medical timeout to the referee. And in that case, even after we make the medical timeout to the referee and he stops, the official stops the game and ushers the player off the field, we still call down to the sideline via the radio to ensure that evaluation is conducted.
SPEAKER_00:Great. Thank you. That's a very good explanation of how that all works. So Brian, you've talked about all this video and the behaviors you're looking for and the head-to-head contact. Do you, as an observer up in that, are you recording every time there's head contact? Because that seems like that's a lot of activity that could happen. Could you just explain that a little bit more?
SPEAKER_01:Sure, sure. Even though we may not call down to the sideline or referee for every head impact that doesn't have a concussion behavior, we do document the, or what we call tag the videos of the non-injury head impacts. And that is fed into a team at the NFL league office who is curating that information to support the overall effort to, you know, to reduce head impacts of any type, and that is useful to them. So we, again, we don't call down to the field for every head impact, but we do those head impacts that we see on different plays, we do tag those videos so another team can review them. And Shelly, we also, although our emphasis is on head and neck injuries, we do document the, the occasions where an athlete has sustained an orthopedic injury of any type, where a response is needed on the field, and also in the rare circumstance where an athlete has to be removed from the field via cart, et cetera, a significant injury. And we don't call down for those injuries, for those non-head and neck injuries, but what happens often is because of the quality of the injury video review system, the teams will call up to us us to see the mechanism of a non-traumatic knee injury, for example, and that aids in their diagnosis just as it aids the UNC's and the team physician in their evaluation of concussions.
SPEAKER_00:And that makes perfect sense because we talk all the time about when you're on the field, you're not a spectator, you're watching, but that view has got to really provide some additional substance for the staff who's evaluating that injury. That's wonderful. You really can't be not paying attention. I mean, you can't even blink up there, Brian, during that game. You're constantly, with your head on a swivel, looking at all of those monitors and what's going on. I mean, your focus really must be intense. I would imagine you've got to be a little tired after covering a game?
SPEAKER_01:Well, there's a very good team up there that we were assigned. The AT Spotters are assigned to different teams, so it certainly is intense. But the more, you know, the more games that we do, the more comfortable you are with the pace of the game. And, you know, there's there's never, never a dull moment. But you just you're able to to look forward a bit to prepare, prepare yourself when the game might might become a little bit more intense, but vigilance is there all the time. what we've seen also in recent years, that medical timeouts have decreased. And that is because, in part, that the officials are recognizing that something is wrong with the athlete after sustaining a head impact and having them be evaluated. So that helps everybody, that they're available to see that and do that. So they do as well. Also, we see that the individual athletes themselves are giving the tap out sign and taking themselves out of the game, as well as teammates saying that a fellow teammate needs to be evaluated. So there are a number of ways that an athlete will get before a team of providers to be evaluated for a concussion. So that's the immediate response part of that. Then the evaluation piece comes in. And that's where you see the athlete go in the blue tent and the evaluation happens with the unaffiliated a neurotrauma consultant and the team physician. And after the decision is made, whether the athlete can return or not, they call up to us to close that loop. And that is very important. It sounds pretty elementary, and it is, but we're very, very focused on that to ensure that in the heat of the moment, that all who are involved in the process of ensuring that the athlete has been evaluated with the correct disposition, either not clear to play or clear to that is known to all. So closing the loop happens after that, after the evaluation piece.
SPEAKER_00:That's great to hear because I was thinking, you know, once you guys have made your call, you're kind of done. But now I'm thinking when you talked about the simulation earlier, these are great examples, right, to help train for nuances. Because I imagine there's some nuances and I imagine the more you do this, the more you're able to pick up on some things that you might not have noticed or the different angles and the different people It's just all feeding in to making a better decision for that athlete.
SPEAKER_01:Well, and that's from the spotter's perspective. This will be my ninth year coming up. And I think I've worked 48 games so far in the previous years. And just every game just sort of adds to the game slowing down for us, if you're familiar with the term. It's just you get a sense of the flow of the game and what's what actions need to be taken and what actions don't need to be taken in the event of a injury that could be a concussion. So, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Brian, this is great information. So can you take us, you're in the booth, and what is that timeframe? So you talk about all this technology, you're hearing the broadcast, you're watching it on different videos, you have to make a decision. I would imagine pretty quickly, what is happening from the time you suspect something and see the behavior and injury to the call down the review. What is it? Can you explain that timeline and how fast you need to do that or what the right answer is for that?
SPEAKER_01:Thank you, Shelly. The longest that we would have is 40 seconds, and that is the play clock. And that's the amount of time the offense has to snap the ball before a penalty is given to the offense. But many times, it's much quicker than that. And this is where knowledge of the game and the preseason scenario training comes in that if there's a an offense that has a or team that runs a hurry up offense that 40 seconds can get compressed very very quickly and depending upon the closest of the game and you know within the two minute period before the halves are over the game's over that can be a single digit second so the longest amount of time we have is 40 but most times it's much less than that so again that's where the training comes in and the scenarios that were provided to review
SPEAKER_00:And again, I imagine that's where that value of that simulation training that you get is very helpful to make it real life.
SPEAKER_01:Absolutely, yes. And again, as I mentioned at the outset of the podcast, there are some pretty stringent prerequisites to become an AT spotter centered around mainly the length of time that an individual has with working at a high level in football.
SPEAKER_00:Great. The next question I have, so you're independent, right? So we know that you're hired by the NFL. So how How do playoffs and the Super Bowl work as far as the spotters go? Are there the same number of spotters? How do you get picked or an opportunity to participate in playoffs?
SPEAKER_01:Generally speaking, the home team, wherever that game is played, the home team AT spotters cover that game as well. So that's the general aspect. There are certainly some nuances to that. As the playoffs go on, there are more plus-ups in different areas, not just the spotters but you know plus ups but not you know not excessively so but generally speaking Shelly that the whatever home stadium is hosting whatever the playoff game is the home AT spotters cover them.
SPEAKER_00:And that makes sense because when you talked about this whole interprofessional team with security and operations it would make sense that that person who knows that field right is familiar with all the the goings on so that seems to to make a lot of sense. What's your favorite part about being a spotter? I'm curious. You're going into your ninth year, so you must absolutely still love this. What about it is your favorite part?
SPEAKER_01:Well, my favorite part is as it was working in the large sporting events that I've worked before. I was the chief athletic trainer for rowing and canoe kayak during the 1996 Centennial Olympic Games. Again, I've worked at Combine for many years. For me, it's kind of the the coming together of all of the interdisciplinary members of the team and working through scenarios and problems, but with a way, as I said earlier, there are no routine emergencies, but there are routines for emergencies. And just kind of understanding what your part is in the whole system, but being part of that whole system is very professionally satisfying to me. And I'm glad to be part of it. So hopefully I've explain that well enough, that this is big enough than just one person, big enough than me, bigger than me, but I'm glad and professionally gratified that I am part
SPEAKER_00:of it. It's systems thinking. We can only see the part that we can see. And so when you put the whole part together, it gives us all a much better picture. One of the things that we're starting to see in the professional leagues is spotters in other sports. So we're starting to see them in soccer and rugby. And I think I know what your answer to this will be, but obviously that's a good thing. Do you think, and again, I understand this is just your personal feeling. Do you think that we need to add spotters in college football?
SPEAKER_01:Well, they are Shelly. Uh, I can't give you a, you know, a precise, you know, uh, number of, of the leagues that have them, but I think the bigger the league, the more likelihood is that they have a spotter capability. And you mentioned MLS, you know, NHL has them as well. And, um, uh, Aussie rules football, I believe, has them as well. I'll stop there because I know that there are others that have them, but some don't. And some, you know, they do it a bit differently than the NFL. MLS has it done centrally located. I believe it's in Texas. And they do it that way. NHL, I believe it's in New York. So rather than having on field or at the venue, AT spotters are doing it all electronically. So our system works for the NFL and and other sports leagues, et cetera, have their own. So, I mean, what the beauty of the spotter system or the genius of it is, is that, you know, putting us above at the press box level really makes a lot of sense because you've been on the sideline as have your listeners. Football players in the National Football League are pretty big people. And there's a lot that happens on the NFL sideline that the athletic training staff is, that they have to, to be concerned about. And, you know, having that extra set of eyes above the field makes a lot of sense. And it would for other leagues as well, other sports too.
SPEAKER_00:It was the one time I felt small in my life when I was in charge of the offensive linemen at UNC. And I, you know, they were the fat kids and I was their mama. It was my nickname. And, you know, I, you know, they towered over me both width and height wise. But yeah, I just think it's great that we're starting to see other sports really bring this you know, you, the NFL has been doing it since 2012. We're seeing more and more of it. I think personally, I would love to see, you know, college football kind of mandated. I understand there's money and different things that go, are involved in it. But I think as we continue to try to improve safety for our athletes, I think it would be something that would be beneficial. And, you know, it's, you guys have done it now for, you know, several, several years and being able to take the good from each thing. And like you said, each sport has a different way of doing it that works for that sport. So again, I just think it's we're taking care of the athletes, which is what our goal is. I think from the time we became athletic trainers or physical therapists, right, is we want to make sure those athletes are safe and can continue to play. What would you say? So we have a lot of listeners on here. We do have a lot of students who listen, both physical therapy, athletic training. We get some young physicians on here as well. What would you say to an aspiring athletic trainer who wants to work at a higher level? So, you know, whether it's the Olympics or whether it's, you know, pro sports or college sports, what do you think are some things that they need to think about as they move through their career that would do them well in being able to achieve their goals?
SPEAKER_01:Well, I would recommend mastering both, you know, traditional sports medicine and modern technology. Hands-on skills are necessary, but plus the knowledge of the modern day technological tools like load management and data aggregation platforms is necessary. in terms of how to make that turn into opportunities on a bigger stage. Build a network through internships, volunteering, and conference attendance. There's certainly professional social media platforms out there that help enable that. And also develop strong communication skills, because you're constantly coordinating through coaches, physicians, and front office staff. Pro sports, as many of your listeners know is a demanding environment where you're going to need to effectively communicate up and out and down and in. As good as we get with technology, the face-to-face communication across many different aspects of an organization verbally and in writing still is at a premium and developing those skills is necessary to get on that stage.
SPEAKER_00:Awesome. The human factor still matters. We aren't replaced in yet with AI. So, great. Brian, anything else to add as we bring this conversation to a close?
SPEAKER_01:No, Shelley, it's been a pleasure.
SPEAKER_00:Thank you. This has been a very informative conversation, Brian. You have so much to offer and such keen insight and thoughts that are very pertinent to our listeners, and I'm deeply appreciative of you being here today and sharing your knowledge and expertise. And with that, to our listeners, another Cogent Conversation comes to an end, and we hope you'll join us next month for another Cogent Conversation. session.
