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Overcomers Approach
“The Overcomers Approach” podcast showcases stories of resilience, where individuals transcend challenges to achieve personal and professional success. With a focus on spiritual, mental, emotional, physical, and financial growth, the podcast inspires listeners to embrace their potential and thrive in all areas of life. Join us to learn how overcoming adversity can lead to evolution, healing, and lasting success.
Overcomers Approach
Inspiring conversation with Michelle Reitinger on overcoming bipolar disorder, embracing holistic mental wellness, and empowering personal growth through integrative healing and community support
Michelle Reitinger's journey with bipolar disorder challenges the norm and offers a beacon of hope for those seeking alternative paths to mental wellness. From years of misdiagnoses and ineffective treatments, Michelle discovered an integrative approach that not only managed her symptoms but led to genuine healing. Her story is a powerful testament to the transformative impact of personal responsibility and a holistic approach to mental health. This episode promises to shift your perspective on bipolar disorder and the possibilities of overcoming it.
Throughout our conversation, we emphasize the importance of taking control of one's mental health through proactive methods. Assemble a dedicated support team, recognize the early warning signs, and prioritize tasks when emotional resources are stretched thin. Michelle highlights the game-changing role of micronutrient therapy in enhancing mental clarity and discusses how mindfulness meditation complements her healing process. This episode will equip you with insights into the profound connection between nutrition and mental health while stressing the value of therapy as a tool for empowerment.
Michelle also advocates for community support and the significance of surrounding oneself with like-minded individuals. By moving away from medication dependency and the romanticization of victimhood, listeners are encouraged to nurture an empowering identity. As Michelle shares her work with True Hope, a nonprofit focused on micronutrient research, you will be inspired to rethink mental health management and embrace a life aligned with personal growth and empowerment. Discover how to harness the power of mindset and community to write your own story of healing and triumph.
For more information about Michelle and her services you can locate her at https://theupsideofbipolar.com/
Please connect with your provider(s) before changing your current treatment plan. If you are in a mental health crisis, please call 988 for assistance.
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Thank you for listening!
Good day everybody. This is Nicole Ellis McGregor, the founder of the Overcomers Approach Podcast. This podcast has guests on with different experiences, different life experiences, different journeys, different cultures, but the overarching theme is that we have the power to overcome no matter what barriers that we face in life, and there is power in storytelling. And so I am so happy to have Michelle Reitinger here today with me, and I'm just going to give a brief bio of her and then we are going to just go into our authentic conversation.
Speaker 1:Michelle was diagnosed with bipolar disorder in 1998. She spent 12 years trapped in a relentless cycle of manic and depressive episodes and during a parade of therapists, doctors, psychotropic medicines and hospitalizations and suicide attempts. Doctors, psychotropic medicines and hospitalizations and suicide attempts. Overwhelmed by despair, she felt humiliated, hopeless and lost, deeply pained by the impact she struggled with and the impact it had on her family and husband. A turning point came this is amazing when she and her psychiatrist discovered a groundbreaking approach that transformed her life. That marked the beginning of her development of integrated method for understanding and treating bipolar disorder.
Speaker 1:She's now a passionate public speaker, author and mentor, and she champions the revolutionary shift and approach to bipolar treatment, focusing on healing and recovery. She emphasizes personal responsibility and challenges that victim mentality is often faced with this disorder. Michelle advocates for integrative, research-based treatment model that addresses the root causes of bipolar symptoms, paving the way for true healing. Michelle, thank you for being a guest on my podcast today. I so appreciate it and I think there's so many people that are dealing with mental health diagnosis or bipolar disorder, and I also believe that I love the fact that an integrative approach, always challenging the models that we have to bring it to our fullest purpose and destiny. Please tell me more briefly on your journey and I know I kind of briefed everyone on how you got here, but please tell me what did that feel like or look like as you was going through the process?
Speaker 2:Absolutely. Thank you so much for having me. I've been looking forward to this conversation, thank you. When I was in college back in the 90s I'm dating myself here I started experiencing increasingly erratic mood swings. You know, I was going through periods of time when I was, you know, really elevated in my mood. My mind was racing, I'd have all these big ideas and make big changes in my life and then I would crash and I would get really depressed and I would struggle with just even getting out of bed in the morning, you know missing classes in college. And it was getting worse and worse until my parents finally pleaded with me to go see a psychiatrist and I was initially diagnosed with depression and anxiety disorders. I was extremely depressed when I went to see the psychiatrist the first time and they put me on antidepressants and very soon I became manic. And then they said, oh, we've misdiagnosed you, you have bipolar disorder, and they switched my medications and that began the roller coaster.
Speaker 1:And.
Speaker 2:I. I was told that I had, you know, a chemical imbalance. I was told that, you know, I needed medication for the rest of my life and I trusted the doctors and I did everything they told me and I just kept getting worse, and it became especially bad when I got married and then I started having children and I could see the damage I was doing to my family. It caused a lot of hopelessness because, based on what I'd been told, there was no cure for this. I would have it for the rest of my life.
Speaker 2:The only hope was medication which was not working for me, and so it created a really hopeless situation and I began to believe, truly believe, that everybody in my life would be better off if I was gone, and I wanted relief from the suffering. There was no light at the end of the tunnel for me at that time, and so when my doctor and I found the first step in the process, I remember feeling cautiously optimistic. You know, I felt like it can't get any worse. Truly, it didn't feel like things could get worse. You know, the hospitalizations that I went through were very damaging. You know and I'm not saying that to discourage people if you're in danger.
Speaker 2:You know the hospital is the safest place to be, but it didn't provide solutions for me. Yes, and when I first started this path, I didn't know that I was on a healing journey, because my my belief at that time and for the following decade you know from the time that I started this process through the next 10 years I still believed what I've been told that bipolar was incurable, that I would have it for the rest of my life years. I still believed what I'd been told that bipolar was incurable, that I would have it for the rest of my life. And I just believe that I was finding tools that were helping me learn how to manage it better.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:And it wasn't until about 2021 that I started recognizing no, I, this isn't, I don't have to have this for the rest of my life. I am actually healing, yeah, and, and so that was when my messaging changed. I, you know, I started my blog in early 2021, just hoping to help people learn how to manage things better, but as I started to discover and do more research and recognize it actually is possible to completely recover, I don't have to have this for the rest of my life. That was when things changed for me, for me personally, yes, and then for what I was sharing with others. And now I've had the opportunity. I coach people through the healing process and I've had the opportunity to help other people go through that process, and it's really exciting to me. Yeah, it's made me want to shout it from the rooftops, because I love my life now and I love what I'm seeing for other people and I want to share that with the world.
Speaker 1:Yes, thank you, michelle. I appreciate your transparency and your authenticity, just sharing your story and, like you said, feeling like this was something that you were gonna have forever, and then feeling like maybe people were better off if you did not exist. And I'm glad that you pulled through divine orchestration, through challenging the systems, to actually meeting with a provider who really was going to take this approach on and know that there is fulfillment, there is purpose, there's even greater. That comes out of your story and your experiences. And, like you said, sometimes hospitals could just be there. And I get this piece because I work as a community resource navigator and that's really.
Speaker 1:People may call 911 for different reasons, but sometimes they're calling 911 because there's an unmet need, there's a need, there's a crisis and public safety or law enforcement is not meant to solve that, and so it's really like redirecting them to community services, natural supports.
Speaker 1:Sometimes there is hospitalizations, but we're really looking at it from an integrative, holistic approach and I love the fact that there's someone that exists in this space that can really speak to that, because I'm hearing that and I'm observing some things, and then that is just given my listeners tools, me tool as well. So when I'm assisting people. What does that look like? Even my listeners, who may want to reach out to you if they're experiencing a diagnosis and they're really trying to walk this journey because I do believe we can get in this space like I'm going to be this, this is my forever and there's you are showing us that there's really more to life and still maintaining your family and your husband, you know, and we don't have to take that loss. We can really navigate around these, these, these integrated services. Tell me, when you met with a new provider that really was looking at an integrative approach to what you were dealing with, how did that work, or how did that even come up?
Speaker 2:Well, actually he wasn't a new provider. He was the doctor I'd been seeing, for, you know, at that point I think I'd been seeing him for eight years, and it wasn't. He didn't bring the information to me, I brought it to him. Somebody had given this information to me, and so I have to back up tiny bit. I actually started. I thought, if I am going to deal with this for the rest of my life, I've got to come up with a different plan. Nobody's coming to save me. I've got to do something to help myself. And so that was the beginning of the creation of something I call a mood cycle survival guide. It's a free resource I offer on my website now, and it was me learning how to take responsibility for the symptoms I was experiencing.
Speaker 2:Okay for years I felt like every time I started to experience mania or depression, it felt like getting yanked onto a roller coaster and I was just holding on to her dear life until it was over, and then I had to observe the damage of my life. You know, and try to clean up the mess Right and I felt like a victim.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:And I had an experience after my third hospitalization where I was watching my children play and I had this thought come to my head like nobody's coming to save me, I have to save myself. I've got to do something about this.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And so I started kind of thinking what do I need to do? How do I, how do I manage these symptoms? And so that was I started with, like who can I ask for help? I recognize I couldn't do it by myself. Who do I ask for help? What are those resources? What are the boundaries around those resources? You know who is my team? And starting to identify that ahead of time and and identifying like what can they do to help me and what is my responsibility Started helping me to not burn the bridges in my life. You know, I think that's one of the challenges. When you feel like you don't have any control, we're always going to people in crisis and that burns people out. It damages relationships. The second step in that process, in that mood cycle survival guide, was what are my symptoms? What's my early warning? You know, how do I start recognizing as early as possible?
Speaker 2:when I'm starting to experience these symptoms so I can manage them more effectively. Yes, and then? What are my? What's my baseline? What is, what is the? What are the power priorities, the most important things that need to be done all the time, and what can I let go of when I don't have the emotional resources to do everything?
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:And then how do I get myself back into a healthy place? So I had started that process, working on those things, trying to figure out how to manage things better, and then a friend of mine actually introduced me to a company up in Canada. It was a nonprofit that was doing a lot of research into micronutrient deficiency and micronutrient insufficiency in people's brains and the fact that that was correlating with the symptoms that were being diagnosed as bipolar depression, anxiety. And so I brought all the information to my doctor and he looked at it and at that point he really cared about me. He could see how much I was suffering and that nothing really was working and he said well, this looks legitimate, it looks like something that's a viable option and I'm willing to let you try it. And that saved my life literally, because getting going and it was a you know it's a challenging process, it's something called cross titration.
Speaker 2:So I had to go through this really slow process of getting helping my brain to start healing with the micronutrients and then gradually taking away the micron. You know the medications and it takes time. You know it's something that you have to be very careful and you have to work with an expert. You have to work with somebody who understands what this, what these drugs look like when you withdraw from them and once I got them all the way out of my system. After several months of this process, I had one morning when I woke up and it felt like it was the first time I was fully awakened over a decade. It was like my brain started working normally again and I hadn't experienced that in over 10 years.
Speaker 1:Wow.
Speaker 2:And that was the beginning of all of the other. You know, over the next 10 years I was finding starting to learn about therapy and actually how to use it proactively not just to go and talk to somebody, but how to be proactive and in utilizing it as a healing tool. You know something to. You know what my responsibility was, what the therapist responsibility was, how to look for the right kind of therapy that was actually going to help me heal and not just yeah talk about my problems all the time right.
Speaker 1:Exactly, yeah, you know.
Speaker 2:And so then, in just over time, I discovered, you know. I discovered, you know, mindfulness meditation like how to actually use it in a way to heal, not just, not just as a grounding tool that's not, that's not to knock that use of it. But I didn't understand what mindfulness meditation really was and how it could actually help me on my healing journey and recovery, you know.
Speaker 2:And then how to use exercise in a healthy way and what yoga could really do for me, and so I was piecing all of these things together and finally understood like what I was actually dealing with, and that's one of the biggest challenges that I think a lot of people who get diagnosed with, like anxiety disorder or major depressive disorder or, you know, bipolar disorder. You, putting disorder on the end of it leads us to believe that we have been given a diagnosis of a medical condition, and that's not true. It's not. It's not accurate.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:And, and so it helped me to understand. Yes, I'm in, just my brain is in distress and there is a reason for it. And it helped me to start to have more curiosity about what is the reason. What's actually causing these symptoms to occur? Yes, so that I can treat the underlying source of the symptoms, you know, and so for me and for a lot of people micronutrient insufficiency. Our brains need micronutrients to function in a healthy way, and if they don't get what they need, our brains start to malfunction.
Speaker 2:Yes you know and how to use therapy. I had a lot of trauma. You know from my growing up and from you know a very abusive marriage and that had never been treated properly, and so I ended up with emotional dysregulation from that. And then I developed unhealthy thought and behavior patterns. So all of these things caused these, this erratic mental and emotional state. That was very unpredictable and as I started digging down and understanding what was underlying these symptoms and started treating them at their source, it started resolving the symptoms.
Speaker 1:Yes, wow, michelle, that is so powerful. There's so many things that I could pull out of that, but I love it because I think that people go into this space and, like you said, when you find a therapist, like you have an accountability and responsibility in that relationship, and then you have to find one that really works with you, that's collaborative and partnership with you, and you have to really know what their roles are. I think a lot of people and not all, but really need to know what that relationship needs to look like, what do the boundaries around that need to look like and how you become empowered out of it, because they're just really a tool. They're not going to fix anything. And I love the fact and I want to know more about the micronutrients and I'm going to table that for one moment because I just want to pull out the nuggets that I got from you Also really addressing some mood dysregulation in our nervous system and how to use yoga and what is mindfulness. I think people are kind of throwing that around and like is it a breathing technique? Can I use it for this? What does this look like? I think the more we're educated, the more empowered we can be.
Speaker 1:And then you said putting that disorder tag on the end of the diagnosis.
Speaker 1:It's a touchy space, you know.
Speaker 1:And so and I know that I'm not licensed you know I have my master's in human services and family studies and I was going to go to be licensed, but then when I started to go to school I was like this model is not going to work for me, like I got to throw this out the door.
Speaker 1:But I respect, I know I work with other clinicians and they they use it as a tool and we're having like really courageous conversations around that. But then I love people such as yourself that are coming out and asking questions and have a sense of curiosity, because that is something innately in us and we have a right to the curiosity, we have a right to ask questions and I do believe that we have the solutions within us. How we begin to marinate that and discover that. I love the fact that you started moving in that space and just bringing it to your doctor. It was like, hey, is this something that we could do? And we, it's okay to do that, and so we have permission to do that and I love that. My next question is and I and I know how dangerous it could be to discontinue medications like that.
Speaker 1:Oh absolutely it has to be. You know, have to be with a provider. That has to be a process and I meet so many people that want to transition off a medication, not really sure how to do it, you know, I would say go to your provider, but that's, we can do the research and go to our provider to have that discussion. So I like that. So you model that. I want to know about the micronutrient information regarding that piece. I'm very curious about that. Tell me more about that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely, and it's interesting because there has actually been research going on since the 90s in this space and maybe a little bit before that, but a lot of research started in the late 90s and the company that I go through it's a nonprofit out of Canada called True Hope and I recommend if anybody's interested in more information. That's a great resource because they've been in this space for a long time and it started very personally. One of the founders had lost a wife and a father-in-law, both to suicide because of their treatment for bipolar bipolar affective disorder, I think was the way that they were diagnosed, and he had two children that were well on their way, two kids that were in and out of the hospital, that were struggling severely, and he recognized they are going to die as well if I don't do something to save them. And the psychiatrists that they were seeing were telling them that there was no hope. This was their life, this was you know. They were telling him that his son, who was a teenager at the time, was going to need to be institutionalized. His daughter, who is a young mother with one little baby, wasn't going to be able to care for her child and he just thought that can't be right and it through it's. There's not time to tell the story, but I encourage people to go look up the information on their website. But but what they discovered was that they were struggling with micronutrient insufficiency.
Speaker 2:So we briefly, so people understand what I'm talking about we know about macronutrients. Macronutrients are, you know, fats, and you know, healthy fats and protein and carbohydrates. Those are the things that our bodies need to function in a healthy way. Those are the building blocks for energy and cell growth and all of those things that our bodies need. Yeah, our brains require nutrition as well. In fact, our brains require higher levels of micronutrient support, and micronutrients are minerals and vitamins that are the building blocks for the neurotransmitters in our brains.
Speaker 2:Yes, and our diets are so depleted now in you know, in our society we, and for a number of different reasons. Some of it is because we eat highly processed foods that have been stripped of all their nutritional value. Some of it is because most of our food is not locally grown. You know, we're getting things shipped from other parts of the world and because of that, they are lower in nutrient density. So there's a lot of different factors that have contributed to the fact that our bodies are not getting what they need to function in healthy ways, and our brains are definitely not getting what they need.
Speaker 2:So, we've seen huge spikes in people starting to struggle with these types of mental health disorders, and one of the main underlying factors is micronutrient insufficiency. So the neurotransmitters in our brains that help regulate our emotional responses to things and mental acuity and mental stability require micronutrients, and when they don't have it, they don't function in a healthy way. And so that's why, a lot in a lot of the research, there's a book called the better brain.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:And it's written by doctors Bonnie Kaplan and Julia Rutledge, and they are some of the pioneers in this field. They have done a ton of research about how micronutrient insufficiency leads to these mental health issues. And when you provide the micronutrients, when you put that back into the body, the brain starts to heal and the brain starts to function in a healthy way.
Speaker 1:Wow.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it's. It's really incredible. I mean it's. It was life changing for me, and I've seen the same thing happen for other people as I've coached them through their own healing process.
Speaker 1:Wow me, and I've seen the same thing happen for other people as I've coached them through their own healing process. Wow, I love that and that totally resonates with me. I definitely believe that diet is tied to our emotional, our emotions, our mental health. Some diseases are impacted, like they're finding that Alzheimer's is. Really it could come from a diet base, maybe lack of nutrition to the brain, and so I you know I'm kind of a nerd that way.
Speaker 1:I it's not my expertise, but I love reading about it and I know that it's all interconnected.
Speaker 1:And then when I'm working with people, whether that's in my family or in community, I just really begin to assess, like the whole bigger, the systems that are at play the nutrition, the food and I do believe it definitely plays a part in it and I find that a lot of the issues, you know, when I take a look back and I see the excess of food resources, I could definitely see it being tied to that.
Speaker 1:So I'm glad that people are doing the research and pioneering this, because this is something that's really progressive. I believe that we're kind of working behind. We're trying to catch up where we need to be in terms of this, in terms of the field of mental health and holistic health and the medical model, and I know that people are challenging those systems and I'm just so happy that's why I'm so happy to have this platform so I could talk to people such as yourself, because it's really bringing hope and inspiration and knowing that this is not a cookie cutter solution, because everybody has their individualized process and the needs that they may have and the way they're physiologically made up. It may be a little different, but it sounds so. It's like cultivated specifically for them, and so I truly, truly love that and it brings me hope, and it brings me hope with the people that I serve in community. Wow, I so appreciate that. My next question is can people truly live life without being on medication? Who are diagnosed with bipolar?
Speaker 2:Absolutely, absolutely, and and I, I want to reemphasize, I always am very careful about this because, yes, my medications change the way that our brains work. Like it, it it alters the brain chemistry, you know, and so your brain adapts to the medication and when you take the medication away, it goes through withdrawals and sometimes it can be, it can be life threatening. So I want to be very clear that I do not advocate people going off their medications cold turkey, and I don't really advocate them going off on their own Because, yes, these all, every different medication, has its own withdrawal issues.
Speaker 2:And so I always advocate people go to an expert, whether it's working with like True Hope or with a holistic psychiatrist who's been trained in cross titration. Unfortunately, most medical practitioners are not trained in how to safely withdraw from these medications. They will have you come off them entirely too fast and it's very dangerous.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But what I have learned is we we, like I said earlier, we have been kind of conditioned to believe that bipolar diagnosis and, and again you know, ADHD, anxiety all of these diagnoses are medical conditions, and that's not true. What you are being diagnosed with is symptoms. Yeah, All they're doing is identifying the symptoms that you have. That's right, and the symptoms are an indication of a brain in distress, so I'm not saying that you're not having a serious problem.
Speaker 2:It's very obviously a big problem, you know. But what we need to do is identify what is causing the symptoms to occur. And so, once you identify what's the source of the symptoms, when I talk to people I'll always ask them to ask them to tell me their story, and usually within about 10 minutes, I've identified, through their story, about three or four underlying sources of symptoms. And so if we can address those underlying sources of symptoms, you can heal, you can recover. You know you get those underlying problems resolved and the symptoms go away.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, and I love the fact because, to me, I always believe there's a root cause to those symptoms and we have to address what is those root causes, because then we're just dealing with the superficial symptoms, that we might be treating systems, the symptoms, but the root cause is still existing. People can get definitely caught up in their minds or in their emotions because you're taking this medication that's giving you like a superficial fix, but you're still, your mind could still be racing, you know, absolutely yeah. And so I definitely could definitely understand that, and so I am.
Speaker 1:I have a niece that I took temporary custody of for like six months and she was on some medications, took a temporary custody for like six months and she was on some medications, but we get to incorporate other modalities and other supports and she wanted to get off.
Speaker 1:She just was like I don't feel like myself, like I I feel I'm starting to feel now and what does that look like? And I was like, well, you don't have to be on medication forever. And so we get begin to walk that journey of what does that look like? She's back with her mom and I'm so happy with her mom and she's doing extremely well, but I was so honored to take that journey with her and just to be able to walk with her on that to really get a more clear understanding of what that looks like and what she was feeling and kind of the language that she was using as a teenager too. I had to, really because she was like I'm starting to feel and I don't know what to do with that, but I don't want to be in this medicine anymore.
Speaker 2:You know yeah absolutely.
Speaker 1:I love that. I love the fact that now for integrative approach, because it sounds like there's therapy involved. There's some other modalities. Do you feel like those are really important? You know, because as people start to address the nutrients in their brain and other things, there's some physical things they might need to do. There's some therapy. They probably has to come go with that. What are your thoughts? And I know it's more integrated, but how important do you think that is? Because some people want to do one thing and maybe not the others.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we have this idea that there's like a magic bullet. You know, there's one thing that's going to fix me and I want to just take a pill or I want to just, you know, and we're very complex, you know people, you know human beings are complex, right, yeah, and so it's important. One of the things that was I recognized as identified each underlying issue and started working on that. I would heal a little bit more and I'd get a little healthier and I would be able to handle life a little better. And therapy is highly beneficial if you know how to utilize it in a proactive way. Because I did talk therapy and I'm not. I think that there's a place for talk therapy, but if you have any kind of history of trauma, it doesn't actually make things better and it can make things much worse because you're just you're just dwelling on the issues and not actually getting to the source of the problem.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So I always tell people therapy is a is a tool, and a therapist is a facilitator in utilizing that tool, and so you need to identify which therapy modality is going to be most effective for you and I you know, when I worked with people in my program, I have them, you know, I have them research a few different modalities.
Speaker 2:I share with them what I know and then I give them some other resources and I have them research it and say what do you think would work best for you? And then you need to find a practitioner who is certified in that modality. And so then you start looking for somebody that you're going to work with that has certified in this modality and then you start working with them and you have homework to do. You have to do the work on your side, provide the information to the practitioner. So it's a very proactive process that is working to identify unhealthy thought and behavior patterns, unhealed trauma, unhealthy coping mechanisms, getting to the source of what's actually causing these things, these issues, to occur.
Speaker 2:You know, a lot of times it's interesting to me that people haven't made the connection with you know they'll say a lot of people who have bipolar disorder have a history of trauma. Duh, that's not a coincidental thing and it hasn't created a medical condition. It's I always. The way that I can help people to start thinking about it differently is I tell them if you started running a fever consistently and you finally went to the doctor because the fever started to get higher and higher. And you go to the doctor and they told you you had fever disorder disorder and that you would need to take anti-inflammatories for the rest of your life because it wasn't going to go away. You'd think that the doctor was cracked right. We recognize the fever is a symptom and we need to get curious. You might have to take something initially because maybe the fever is going to cause brain damage it's so high.
Speaker 2:But you're not going to do that for the rest of your life. You're going to get curious about what is causing my body's in distress. There's a reason it's having a fever. What's causing the fever to occur?
Speaker 2:Yeah same thing is true for these symptoms, and so if you have a history of trauma, if you, you know I have have you developed unhealthy thought and behavior patterns, like get down to the root, and that's that's where therapy can be highly effective If you get with a practitioner who's proactive in seeking out the underlying sources of the issues and resolving those so that you can heal the symptoms.
Speaker 1:I love that and thank you for just affirming that you know like and just calling that out. You know, get with a practitioner. That's going to be proactive. That's very key. I have a few questions before we wrap up. I'm just going to be conscious of time. So my next question is I know when people have these disorders or in crisis whether it's anxiety or bipolar disorder, depression sometimes when they have a crisis or meltdown, they'll get. There's a need, so they'll start reaching out or they'll connect with people that might burn bridges. They kind of kind of get caught in this cycle and when they begin to start their healing process I've observed this it scares them a little and they want to go back to the familiarity, even in the discomfort and the chaos. When people start leaning out and leaning into the healing journey and they start it, what do you think is going to create that support for you know, what recommendations would you recommend for someone who's experienced in that?
Speaker 2:So there are two things. Number one I always encourage people to figure out why they want to heal. Yeah, because, because if you don't know why you're doing this, it can create a problem for you when you hit challenges, because the healing journey is not smooth at all. Right, right, going to have hiccups, you're going to have, you know, regression, you're going to have relapse.
Speaker 2:It's very difficult, yeah so you need to have a reason why you're doing it and you need to get that really clear in your mind so that there's a reason to get back up and try again, right? The second is you need support, and it's in in that. You know, in my group I have we've got people going through the process and we meet every Wednesday night together as a group online and it's it creates a super supportive environment because we can share our our triumphs, we can share our difficulties. It's a, it's a space where people are working together towards the same goal and and there are other people on the same journey that understand what you're going through. It it creates an incredibly supportive environment that keeps you moving forward.
Speaker 2:So and I you know there are lots of resources out there you know I work in a very specific way. You know I'm I'm working with people who want to get off their medications, who want to heal, who want to recover. There are other people who are doing okay on medication. They just want a little bit of support and I know that there are resources out there for them. But you need to find a community. You need to find people who are working towards the same goals so that you have support in that process.
Speaker 1:Awesome, thank you. I appreciate that. Figure out your why. Figure out what the reason and that could be for so many different, could be for so many different reasons. Some people do it for their families, their kids, for some spiritual reason. Find out what your why is and then find that community out there that is in alignment with going through the healing process so you could share your wins, your triumphs, your challenges. Maybe you hit a crossroads.
Speaker 1:I always think two or more minds together can help come up with solutions, because sometimes you hit a roadblock, especially if you're in a crisis, because your brain is not operating in that space to even think of solutions. But if you have some other people there that are like hey, that are actively listening, reaffirming you and helping you work through that, I think supporter community could be very impactful. And I want to speak to the introverts out there that are a little afraid to reach out, because I'm an introvert myself. I'm selectively extroverted. When I'm passionate I can be extroverted, but then I have to close back in and have my safe space. I want to be one of those people like when I find my community. You know, maybe it's online, maybe it's just, you know, getting two people together, whatever that looks like, until you're able to build up to the bigger community.
Speaker 1:But I think, michelle, you hit the nail on the head. We cannot do this alone. It has to be in a supportive community, a safe space, and I love that. And then I have two questions and we'll close up. My next question is people get in a state of victimhood, you know, when they're experiencing trauma. It's easy to do. I've done it. I wore victimhood as a badge of honor through a period of my life, you know, but I had to move out of that space and move into a sense of empowerment, no matter what barriers you face. What helped you or what would you recommend for other people? I know there's some integrative approaches, but what are some something practical that they could do to help them with with moving outside of that space?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think again it goes back to that community, you know, looking for other people who who are choosing to step outside of that victim narrative and it and I. It's very unfortunate but we've kind of created like a, a status symbol out of victimhood in our society and it's really sad because it doesn't serve. It doesn't serve people in that to stay in that space.
Speaker 1:No.
Speaker 2:And I think sometimes, because we start to identify with that idea or that label, we start to be scared of losing that identity, you know, because we're like, well, who will I be without that? Or what if I don't succeed? Or what if you know? And so I think it's really critical to find other people who are doing the same thing, because you need, you need support, you need, you need encouragement and support and and you know, just like anybody who's learning anything new- you need other people who are doing the same thing that can say don't, don't worry.
Speaker 2:You know this feels super scary. I know that this feels really stressful, but you can do it. We're doing it together. You've got people ahead of you who've done it, who are saying come on, you can do this, and you've got people alongside of you who are doing the same thing. So I think that that's the best place, because when we've created, we have a tendency to create communities around whatever space we're in, and so, if you are in a victim mindset, you probably have some kind of a victim community that you're working with, whether it's online, you know, or around you yeah.
Speaker 2:We have a tendency to gravitate towards that, so you need to change who you're associating with. That's right Get with people you know get a community that are getting stepping out of that, who are like I am not going to be a victim anymore.
Speaker 1:I want to be responsible for my life, I want to have a beautiful life and I'm choosing not to be a victim any longer. I like that Again community and accountability, and it's having people challenge you to stretch out of that comfort zone, of having that victim mindset. And I can say, if you look at the circle that you're around, challenge that paradigm and figure out is this the space that I need to be in, are these the people that I need to be around? It doesn't make you any better, but if you're trying to grow and life is so short, if we want to move into our fullest purpose, that's going to be really important, I agree. And then we can begin to change our language, because I meet children who have that victim mentality. They're like, oh, I have this diagnosis and that's just where it begins and end and yeah, and so they have a life too. So I think the more we learn, the more we role model for our children, the more we can impact them as they walk through their journeys as well.
Speaker 1:My last question is as you do this work, what do you do for self-care so your cup doesn't get empty because you're pouring out, you're helping people? What do you do for self care, so your cup doesn't get empty because you're pouring out. You're helping people. What do you do to help sustain? You know the space you're in mentoring, speaking, advocating. What things do you do?
Speaker 2:I walk the walk. I do exactly what I teach other people to do, and it's interesting because I what I teach people are developing habits for healing. Yeah, and those habits for healing stay with you for the rest of your life. You know all of the things that I did, with the exception, like I'm not in therapy any longer and it's not because, you know, I just got to a point where I didn't need any longer. I learned how to utilize the tools. I didn't need that at that point.
Speaker 2:But I do mindfulness meditation every day. I exercise every day. You know, I journal, I do the things that help me get to this space, because those are the habits for healing that help me maintain a healthy, balanced lifestyle. And I continue to read. I love, I love looking for resources to work on mindset and to work on, you know, growth and and progression, and so all of those things help me keep, continue to look forward and to continue to develop and grow. So, yeah, it's the same things that I teach people to get out of it that you continue to maintain, to maintain health and balance.
Speaker 1:And I love that. I love that because I think so many times we have people out there that are doing the work but then become burned out and exhausted and they can be as most effective as they can be, and someone who walks the walk talks the talk. They're just walking the journey with them and you're role modeling that for them as well, and so I definitely appreciate it and I think that builds a sense of trust when working with people as well. So I appreciate that If people want to get in touch with you and use your services or have you as a speaker or want more insight, what is your web link that they can go to?
Speaker 2:My website is theupsideofbipolarcom.
Speaker 1:Awesome. Thank you, and I will make sure I have that in my description when I complete the podcast, that'll be. I'll provide the web link in there as well. Michelle, I just want to thank you for this time today. It has been very encouraging, empowering. It brings me hope and just for you to walk that journey and provide more insight and education to know people that this is not where their story ends. There's still chapters that need to be completed. So, michelle, thank you today. I so appreciate you being here today.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much. This has been a pleasure. Thank you.