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Overcomers Approach
“The Overcomers Approach” podcast showcases stories of resilience, where individuals transcend challenges to achieve personal and professional success. With a focus on spiritual, mental, emotional, physical, and financial growth, the podcast inspires listeners to embrace their potential and thrive in all areas of life. Join us to learn how overcoming adversity can lead to evolution, healing, and lasting success.
Overcomers Approach
Redefining Disability: Jenna Udenberg's Journey Beyond Labels: Wheels of Change!
In this powerful conversation with disability advocate Jenna Udenberg, we explore the profound journey of living with juvenile arthritis since age seven and transforming personal challenges into a platform for disability rights. Jenna doesn't just share her story—she fundamentally reshapes how we think about disability, accessibility, and human dignity.
Disability advocate Jenna Udenberg shares her journey of living with juvenile arthritis since age seven and her mission to create more inclusive, accessible spaces through education and storytelling. She challenges negative disability stereotypes while offering insights on advocacy, self-care, and the complexities of navigating a world not designed for wheelchair users.
• Disability is not a bad word – negative connotations come from historical treatment and ableist thinking
• People with disabilities face infantilization despite their accomplishments and capabilities
• The Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) establishes minimum requirements but is an unfunded mandate with limited enforcement
• Disabled Americans spend $10,000-$30,000 more annually just to exist while systems keep many below poverty level
• Finding your community is crucial – seek out disability centers, independent living resources, and immerse yourself in disability culture
• Overcome other people's interpretations of who you are by being self-reflective and giving yourself grace
To learn more about Jenna's work or to purchase her memoir "Within My Spoke: A Tapestry of Pain, Growth, and Freedom," visit AboveAndBeyondWithU.com.
Listen to this episode to gain a transformative understanding of disability rights and walk away with Jenna's powerful message about overcoming "other people's interpretations of who I am or who I should be" through self-reflection, purpose, and grace. Ready to see accessibility through a new lens? This conversation will change how you think about inclusion.
Thank you for listening!
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Thank you for listening!
Good day everyone. This is Nicole Ellis McGregor, the founder of the Overcomers Approach podcast. This is an opportunity where I meet with people from different walks of life, different experiences and different journeys, but the overarching theme is we could almost overcome any challenge that is set before us and empower others with our story. There is power in storytelling, there is power in advocacy and there's power in education and information and people with lived experience. I'm so happy to have Jenna Udenberg here today.
Speaker 1:Today's guest is an inspiring author, a disability advocate and accessibility educator. Diagnosed with juvenile arthritis at seven years old, jenna has faced life's challenges with incredible resilience and determination. As a 2020 Bush Fellow, she uses her voice to create more inclusive and accessible spaces for everyone. Her book Within my Spoke shares heartfelt stories of perseverance, healing and the relationships that shaped her journey. Jenna's work through her nonprofit Above and Beyond With you is a transforming lives by championing Okay, let me start that over. Above and Beyond With you is transforming lives by championing inclusion and breaking barriers. Let's dive into her incredible story and the lessons she has to share with us.
Speaker 1:Welcome, jenna. I am so happy to have you on the Overcomers Approach today. To get started, I know that I'm a native Minnesotan, so I'm so happy to have connected with someone who has roots in Minnesota and advocacy is something that I'm close at heart. I know that close to I think the 2021 census says that close to 13% or 42.5 million people suffer from a disability and I know just from your experience. I know you have a lot to bring to the table today. I want to say welcome today, thank you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, thanks, nicole for having me. It's great to be here.
Speaker 1:Thank you, jenna. To get started, I want to ask a question why is disability not a bad word? I know people hear the word disability in all types of things. Assumptions come up into people's minds, but why is it not a bad word?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I would say for most of my life. I heard that it was right.
Speaker 2:I heard that the challenges and you know even the statistic you shared earlier right were suffering with it. Or I hear the comments of we're wheelchair bound or home bound or bed bound, or you know, and so they've had there's been such a negative connotation. And when you look at historically how disabled people have been treated, yes, of course that makes sense why there's such a negative stereotype, at least in our American history, at least in our American history. And so the more that I'm learning about the people that have wheeled before me, have come before me, have fought very hard fights, the more that I am so indebted to them and I'm in enraged isn't the right word, but I'm on fire to do my part because if we stay silent and if we stay, as you know, all the different ways that the non-disabled population is present and supported and seen to be this place of trying to achieve yeah.
Speaker 2:You know, and then even in that that's ableism right.
Speaker 2:So the belief that people that are non-disabled, that are walking versus wheeling, that are, you know, healthy and fit in a certain size and you know all the things right.
Speaker 2:But then we say that that's the best thing to be, yes, and we know that that's bunk right. Like people of any minority status and namely I talk about disability because that's my, my main claim to minority status is we are all important. Every single life has value, every single life has worth. Every single story can be learned from and should be learned from and should be shared, and so the more that I feel like we can break down those barriers and stop, stop. So in our culture we use the word infantizing a lot, and so the breakdown of that word is just that you're making us feel or talking to us in a way that is making us seem like we are younger than we are. So many times, you know, I'm 44 years old, almost 45 this later this week, and I can't tell you how many times, even in the last decade, how many times people have talked down to me as if.
Speaker 2:I don't have two bachelor's degrees, as if I don't have a master's degree of education, as if I'm, you know, not a veteran Lego robotics coach, as if I'm not X, y, z, as if I'm not XYZ. As if I'm not a 2020 Bush Fellow 2017 Blandon person, a 2025 Shannon Leadership Institute person. But, why do I have to come and throw all of these accomplishments out?
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:If it's Jenna and Nicole sitting having coffee, you and I are the same, right, we're different. We have different shared stories, we have different whatever. But why would they look at you more supremely than me Just because I happen to have wheels on my chair that are bigger than office wheels, and so and words matter, right. So disability right now for me, and that's all I can talk about, is for me. I would rather be called a disabled female. I don't like the word handicap, that was a lot of my childhood.
Speaker 2:I'm not a golf score, never played real golf a day in my life. Mini golf, love it. Not quite sure if there's handicaps in mini golf, but I don't know any other people group that has. Well, there's lots of slurs and those kinds of things, right, but that are compared to sports in that sense. And there's even worse words of you know the R word and other things that are even historically back farther and still used today, unfortunately. And then there's you know different things of people wanting to say that you know you're handy, capable or you're you know all the little things that people want to say and you know what.
Speaker 2:That's fine if that's like a person within my culture, that that's what they want to call themselves, Right, what have you? But when it's the non-disabled population trying to label us to make them feel better or make them feel more comfortable. That's where I'm starting to kind of like push back.
Speaker 1:Yes, you know, I love that. There's a number of things that I love that you said and it's really. You know, people having assumptions and labels can be very dangerous and to infantile people. To speak down to people, to having to prove your worth and your value and your intelligence to people by, you know, having to put out these things I could totally relate to, I can totally experience with my lived experience as well, and it's dehumanizing and it can feel very disrespectful.
Speaker 1:And you, educating us and my listeners is extremely important because we're more connected than we know. We're more. We have way more in common than any differences. But to talk about those differences and those challenges, that's the way. And to have these courageous conversations. That really allows us to grow and it gives people more opportunities to show up in spaces and places. You know whether that's an elected official, whether that's veteran, whether that's the president, you know whether that's a teacher. You will go into a store. Like being able to really educate people in systems that don't understand that. You have a brain, you have a mind that's creative, that's innovative, that's very powerful and the more we talk about it, the more we're educated on it, the better that will be and I just love that. I could totally relate and in terms of being an advocate, I know that can be. Sometimes it can be challenging, sometimes it takes a lot of energy. What do you do to give you the endurance and the resilience to keep going for it Like what? What do you do?
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah, that's a great, consistent question. I would say I really had to confront that during my 2020 fellowship through the Bush Foundation, because it was all about our own individual leadership journey. It was about you know how do you continue the work, because it is exhausting and that's why for so long yes, I've always been a self-advocate, because I've been dealing with this since age seven. You know my parents um super thankful for them and their ability of giving me my agency over my medical future at age 15 and deciding when and if I wanted to have orthopedic surgeries and those kinds of things. But learning at that young age how to self advocate, how to stand up against adults, stand up against people that know quote unquote know more about you than you know, right, and then want to make life better for others that are coming alongside me and behind me.
Speaker 2:When I was in college and you know, getting into the grassroots of what disability advocacy and disability rights looked like, yes, but then at any time we're taking out at, you know, any moment with our medical, it's not like something that we can always keep the fight going, and so I think that's the hardest part in the history of disability rights is you get momentum going and then something takes one of our leaders out, takes ourselves out what have you?
Speaker 2:And so for me, during my college days I just had to say I just have to focus on me, because my medical world was just taking all of my spoons, as we say in culture, and yeah. And then I became a teacher and then I was like now I have to advocate for all of my disabled kids and you know, like that was such a joy and such an honor and a privilege and to be able to create an adaptive music class at one of my elementary schools and just make this huge impact, not only for these kids but for their families, for for that school, for that, you know, for their peers. And then you just come home and it's like I have absolutely nothing left.
Speaker 2:So, circling back to the, the Bush, you know, fellowship, it was like I have to do more. I need to be creative in my time away. I need to be selfish with those little pockets of time to do self-care, to do soul care that's right. And to really have, you know, find my people right. So now, after that, I've found my people, I've found my trusted people that I can just be like, yep, I've been politically correct for this many straight days, so I've been, you know, like having expressed my views because I'm representing my nonprofit or I'm representing my book, or you know, and it's like you just have to have those spaces where you can just be real.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:And and not that I'm fake. I'm very authentic in an open book. But there are just things that you just have be real. Yes, and and not that I'm fake.
Speaker 2:I'm very authentic in an open book, but there are just things that you just have to say and do and be at times so um. And then I also got a love into gardening. So, dear friends of mine, let me put a 20 foot by 20 foot paved or a cement pad with a ramp, on their farm property, and so I've got lots of raised beds for different vegetables and flowers and strawberries and just a place that I can call my own to get away from the world and get away from technology and and just rejuvenate. So, finding those special things and, like you said earlier, being creative. You know going to glass blowing classes, going to paint pouring classes. You know doing things that I'm not really good at, but it's super fun to try and it's good to feel.
Speaker 1:Yes, I love the fact that you said you know self-care is important. You know gardening, connecting with your people is important. You know gardening, connecting with your people, your tribe, having a space to just be authentically who you are and feeling okay with it and not having to be, you know so politically correct, a place you could just let your hair down and just be free. And so I think having those safe spaces is so important for people with lived experience to be able to just kind of relax and breathe. And so I love the fact that you make self-care a priority and, like you said, your cup can be empty because you're giving, giving, giving, you're pouring out, you're advocating for the students, and I'm sure that took a lot of mental and emotional and willpower to even get that accomplished and done, you know, and so and I love music I think music is a universal language and the fact that I work with a lot of people in the community and a lot of kids who they may or may not have a disability, but music is something that does something for their emotional regulation. And so, to being able to be in a space that is accommodating to you and that you can be able to participate with everybody else and be creative in your genius and in your purpose, I think is a big thing, so I want to thank you for that. So many of our children need that. Yes, thank you.
Speaker 1:I want to talk a little bit about the ADA. I know that that's Americans Disabilities Act and does that code matter? And we're more than just a checklist, if you can kind of? I know I'm familiar with the ADA and I know people throw it around a lot. You know, but I don't know if people really know specifically what that does and why are we more than that?
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah, great, yes, so the Americans with Disability Act was passed in 1990 by the first President Bush. I'm not going to say the middle initial because I don't want to get it wrong. I think it's George H, but just watched a documentary about it again the other night. So I should know this. But you know, and so that gave people with disabilities the right to have equal access to all public buildings, or any buildings or systems that get federal funding yes, that get federal funding, yes. And so from there there's a ginormous binder of all of the things that you know are ADA code, whether it comes from. You know entrances to public buildings, whether it's bathrooms, whether it's showers, whether it's. You know pools and pool lifts and hot tub lifts and Braille and things, and you know a variety of translations. The size of font you know. I mean you could sit there for your lifetime and read ADA code if you really wanted to.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the hard part with code is that it tries to go by universal design and so, like if you were to Google. You know the height of a transfer bar in an accessible restroom, right? I'm pretty sure the code says something along the lines of it needs to be 32 to 42 inches from the ground. Well, a 10-inch difference can make something accessible or inaccessible, depending on your disability and how you transfer and what type of chair you use and you know, or walking apparatus, mobility device, you know there's. There's so many different ways that our a, that we acquire our disabilities. B that our disabilities are presented. And see, we have good and bad days, just like everybody else.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:So yeah, and the part about the checklist is like, at least in my lived experience living in rural Minnesota before the ADA came to be and then also now that ADA has been around for almost 35 years it'll be in July it's just hard of like. So many places are still not accessible because there's that clause in there, like unless it provides financial hardship Wow, well, what does that mean?
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:What might be a hardship for me isn't a hardship for you. Or what's a hardship for you know, mom and pop restaurant isn't an issue for applebee's, or you know, like, whatever this the scenario is, yeah, um, and then. So that's the hardest part is the americans with disabilities act is the the greatest unfunded mandate the american history has ever created or the American government has ever created? So you get all these rules that you're supposed to abide by.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:But there's no funds to help you meet those guidelines, and then there's no disability police to make sure you're accessible. So we don't have somebody like the fire marshal, we don't have somebody like, you know, osha I mean, osha does do some of that safety stuff when it comes to ADA things, yes, but the hard part is is then people start treating us like a checklist. Well, what do you mean? Nicole? You can't use the restroom in my restaurant, right?
Speaker 2:We have bars and it's like yeah, but I can't get my wheelchair in my restaurant. Right, but we have bars. And it's like yeah, but I can't get my wheelchair next to the toilet or yes, I can use the toilet, but you don't have a sink that I can roll under to actually wash my hands and be safe after using the restroom. You know, so you know, or like, once you get me in a space I can do all things, but I can't independently get in and out of the restroom.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:And it's shocking because I've worked with a lot of local agencies and organizations and government and those kinds of things. And it's so funny because, again, it's just lived experience, right, if you've never lived in a wheelchair, if you've never been a caregiver of someone, yes, it's like awesome, you built a ramp so I can come in this space. Awesome, all right, 15 years later you put buttons on the door so now I can get up your ramp and I can hit a button and I can get in your space. Awesome. And now, what can I do here? And the leaders were like oh, oh, can I get in your lounge to nourish myself? Can I get and use in your restroom? Can I go to all the different offices to have meetings with all the different entities and agencies that are represented in this space?
Speaker 2:And it was like, oh, so again, like we're fully human, we fully have the same needs all the rest of everyone else does. It might look different how we do it, it might act different, it might have a different timing. You know all the things, but basic human needs and basic human rights provides dignity. And so, therefore, by treating us as you're committed to being accessible not that we're a checklist to be like ooh, pat me on the back, I gotta check, you know, each box of wood. Pin a sticker on my nose and and it we're not that right. It feels, like you said earlier, very dehumanizing and it takes away our dignity.
Speaker 1:That's right. Yes, jenna, I this, you telling me this information is so impactful and so just insightful for me. You know, in terms of, like you said, if you don't have that lived experience and you think the checkbox might be OK and it most definitely may not be and then to say, oh, we're, we're fine, oh, we have it, you know it's okay, like you said, put a button on your nose, and I think you know it's so individualized as well and I think we just really we have to be human centered and really person centered and it's really individualized because someone may have a totally different experience, like you said, or based on whatever facility or restaurant you go into, it could be very different. And I know, working in the space that I work in you know I work in public safety and human services I work more with people with behavioral, mental health issues to try to redirect them from, you know, the police if they don't have to be in that space.
Speaker 1:But I will have conversations with parents who may have a child that's been in a car accident and now that their child is now in a wheelchair or and when you spoke about the financial piece how that just totally blows their life totally way, in a totally different proportion. And then the financial financial to who and so and and some of the challenges and barriers that people go through just makes me even understand that even more, and once me, I want to advocate even more on their behalf. But the more I know, the more empowered they can be, and so I'm great, I'm so grateful we're having this conversation because it brings it into context.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and that that financial piece is new to me and having vocabulary to talk about it. But in case listeners are wondering, like, if you search about Crip Tax, you know disabled people spend anywhere from $10,000 to $30,000 more a year just to exist compared to their non-disabled counterparts. And yet all of the systems and I've been on and off systems of a varied amount yeah, they keep you below poverty level, that's right. So you're spending all of your existence to make up for your medical world.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you know.
Speaker 2:I mean it's a very complex situation. It's a very complex system. I'm not saying that our current systems are all horrible and I'm not saying they're all amazing. I'm not saying that there aren't bad people doing fraudulent things or stupid things. But then there's some of us that are just. Most of us are just trying to live the life and abide by all the different, different things we need to abide by, yes, and do what's best for us, yeah, but the stories needs to still be shared, so the world still keeps getting better and more inclusionary.
Speaker 1:That's right and it's so insightful and helpful because, like you said, people who and I've been in systems and throughout my life, different systems, and then I've helped people navigate different systems and it can be and, like you said, it's not to say that they're bad because they're there for a reason, but just some type of more inclusionary, more lived experience, more stories that need to be told for those in leadership so they can really understand what people are really dealing with. And you talk about that tax. That really brings it to insight. Because if you're talking about they're paying up to $30,000 more a year, well, if people are not represented in those systems you're talking about, they have to come up with that from somewhere. And if they have to be below poverty level in these systems, sometimes it just makes it even more difficult. So you have to definitely have a sense of resilience and toughness and advocacy and self-care holistically to even come up against those systems. So I definitely, like I said, I appreciate them as well, but I think the more leadership, the more people understand on leadership and government and those who hold power in those spaces just can really understand it more and get those stories out. I think more change could even happen.
Speaker 1:So I really appreciate that and I know my listeners do too well especially if they're dealing with something very similar to themselves or they have a child that may have to have a wheelchair. What does that look like? What does that feel like? So, for somebody who finds themselves all of a sudden having to use a wheelchair, whether it's temporarily or permanently, I'm sure that is maybe challenging. Do you have any advice for people who this is something that's new for them and they're just trying to live through it? Do you have any suggestions that you think would be helpful for people?
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know it's hard because we can all acquire a disability through so many different means and we can acquire it at any age in any way, and so you know, I've always been very blessed with a great medical team.
Speaker 2:It doesn't mean that there hasn't been some black roses amongst the way or some hard people to deal with or that I've had to educate or dismiss from my case.
Speaker 2:But I think, finding again, finding your people, reaching out to local rehab spaces, finding adaptive outdoor recreation type folks I mean it depends on if you're and even if you're not, if you don't have like a big rehab center near you because I definitely didn't I had a, you know know, a smaller one in my situation um, they were great, they're, some of them are still a part of my life even today, um, but I would say now, in the age of internet, because that was not my lived experience for most of my disability, um, but you know, searching out those places, looking up Bradford Woods, looking, looking up what was just my head, oh, craig Hospital out in Colorado, depending on what your disabling condition is, finding where those experts are and get outside of the medical model, and I know, that's super hard, because that's what's forced on us all the time but find right find that disability center, find the center for independent living, find all the different things.
Speaker 2:Go and read judy human's memoir, whether it's the adult version that's called being human or the youth version that's a rolling warrior. Watch crip camp out on netflix like immerse yourself in our culture and community, because that's what I missed so much of my growing up and now I'm so thankful that I have that as a part and that that's my goal.
Speaker 2:Like I want to grow and becoming understanding more of other people with different disabilities and and being that conduit, like our website says, of you know, like we speak for you know, mobility disabilities, because that's our experience. But we want to make sure that we're advocating for all disabled people. And I would kind of jump back to the previous question. Just a smidge is like um, just because most people live in the poverty world as disabled, not all and so there's that misnomer, especially in the travel industry, that well, why do we have to build it?
Speaker 2:because they don't come. And if that's just a broad saying for every area of life, but necessarily for sure for travel. And Americans alone spend billions of dollars in the disability community to travel every year and our needs are continually not met, both in airfare or not airfare, but in the actual um airplane industry, like not being able to go to the bathroom, not being able to safely get on and off the the planes, having over 100 wheelchairs um destroyed or greatly um damaged every single day in america which hello, we're in 2025, how?
Speaker 1:can you?
Speaker 2:not figure this out. Um, and you know. Then you go to hotels and you say, hey, I'm going to come on this date. I've stayed here before. I want this room. This is the number that works great for me, this is where I'm safe. All the things are like oh, I'm sorry, ma'am, we don't pre-describe or pre-assign the rooms. And it's like how do you not? And then you call back the day before you go and you're like hi, I'm just calling for this room and whatever. They're like no, it's already been assigned. And it's like no, wait, what? So there's just, there's just policies and and things that we need to change in so many of those scenarios and we need to realize that disabled people come in all economic backgrounds that's right all you know, all racial backgrounds, that's right, all you know all racial backgrounds, all religious backgrounds and anybody.
Speaker 2:That's why we're the most diverse minority group in the world, because anybody can join our world at any time.
Speaker 1:That's right, you know. I love the fact that you gave voice to that. Like you said, you know it comes from all different type of economic background, different faith, different walks of life. You know different experiences and the fact that you know that even brings more light to it, like you said, because if you have the money to spend and you want to take a trip to, you know, vegas or Hawaii, you know, and I even think how long flights are, you know, and the fact that you know you may not be able to go to the restroom for a five-hour flight, or what does that look like or feel like, and you have the money to spend and invest in that company, that says a lot. So that brings even more light and awareness to those experiences.
Speaker 1:I definitely appreciate that. Just having that insight and that awareness and just the education helps me, also helps the listeners. And so, jenna, I so appreciate that we're winding down to the last couple of minutes here and I want to ask a couple of more questions before we wind down. What was it like writing your memoir? How did you feel about that? How did that feel?
Speaker 2:about that. What was your? How did that feel? It was daunting. It took me about a year I self-published but working with a self-publishing school to learn more about the trips or tricks and trades of you know writing and having a coach and all that. And the most important information that my coach gave me was write the story that you can write in that day, given your mental capacity and your spiritual capacity of that time. Like, don't force yourself to chronologically write, Don't force yourself to do the hard things when you don't have that capacity. And so that was the most beneficial advice I got.
Speaker 2:It was exciting, it was exciting, it was scary and now it's super funny because I have two really good friends that are in the book. And it's so funny because people locally that know them are like hey, Megan, I read your book and Megan's like you mean Jenna's book that I happen to be in. And then other people are like Jamie, when do we get to meet Jamie? Jamie is so cool. We're fangirling over Jamie. Jamie wrote a book and she's like I didn't write a book, Jenna wrote a book. That's what I love, because my subtitle is a tapestry of pain, growth and freedom, and so that's what I wanted to have happen with it. I wanted it to be about my whole care network. It's my story that's impacted everyone, and everyone has a story around it based on, you know, their lived experience with me. And so it's kind of surreal because then people are like Jenna, tell us this story from your book and I'm like, oh good golly, I shared that out for the world to know. I kind of forgot about that, Right.
Speaker 1:Oh, I love it. I love it. I love the fact that you just kind of had to pace yourself and come as you go. Like you said, it was a little daunting, but look at the kind of the overflow, the experiences now, the conversations that are going on and people are really looking forward to it. So I do like that. My one last question, and this is just for people who are overcoming, you know, and I'm sure you can name a number of challenges, but what challenge that you can name in your life that you had to experience that helped you grow and move forward to where you are today? That could probably be numerous, but if you could think of one, Do we have five more sessions together?
Speaker 2:No, I would say, overcoming other people's interpretations of who I am or who I should be.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's good. Yes, I love that.
Speaker 2:Truly being self-reflective enough to dig deep of who I am yes and who I was designed to be and who I've been called to be yes and to also have grace for myself yes, yes, I love that.
Speaker 1:You know having grace for yourself and then not allowing people to define who you are. You know who you are. You know who you were created to be. You have a divine purpose and will here, and for you to stay in that and be grounded in that is great and that's a message for anybody you know, for anybody to to stand on and to keep going each and every day. So I appreciate that, jenna stand on and to keep going each and every day. So I appreciate that, jenna. Well, I appreciate the conversation we had today. It has been so enlightening and so educational and so empowering. It has allowed me to put on another lens when I walk through this life and help me advocate on a different level and a different capacity. If people want to get in touch with you for consulting or read your blog or purchase your memoir, what is your website link?
Speaker 2:Yeah, our website is Above and Beyond with you and, as you can see on my shirt, that's the capital U, not Y-O-U. That's a nod to my teaching career, because little kindergartners couldn't say Udenberg, so they always called me Miss you and Above and. Beyond is an easy way to remember because we can go above and beyond the ADA code to live out the spirit of what the ADA stands for.
Speaker 1:Thank you, I love that and I'll make sure I put that in my description when I complete and edit the podcast so that people will also have that there too. Jenna, you have an amazing day. That has been an enlightening, empowering conversation. Best to your nonprofit and your advocacy, work and your self-care and I definitely appreciate and thank you.
Speaker 2:Yes, thank you so much and hopefully you get to come back to Minnesota soon.
Speaker 1:Oh yes. Thank you.
Speaker 2:Thanks.