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Overcomers Approach
“The Overcomers Approach” podcast showcases stories of resilience, where individuals transcend challenges to achieve personal and professional success. With a focus on spiritual, mental, emotional, physical, and financial growth, the podcast inspires listeners to embrace their potential and thrive in all areas of life. Join us to learn how overcoming adversity can lead to evolution, healing, and lasting success.
Overcomers Approach
Pause & Reset: The Therapy Breakthrough You Didn't Know You Needed
Burnout doesn't discriminate, but it particularly affects high-achieving people juggling professional ambition with personal responsibilities. Licensed psychotherapist Maryanne Nicholls joins Nichol Ellis-McGregor to share powerful insights on recognizing burnout signals before they derail your life.
"Our body gives up on us or needs a rest. It really lets us know and it's really important to listen to that," explains Maryanne, drawing from both professional expertise and personal experience. She challenges the common belief that ambitious people must fundamentally change who they are to prevent burnout. Instead, she advocates for self-acceptance as the foundation for sustainable success.
The conversation explores how our cultural rewards for busyness make it difficult to recognize when we're approaching our limits. Maryanne introduces listeners to EMDR therapy as a powerful tool for breaking unhelpful patterns by addressing their root causes. "EMDR helps to take that pattern... and work with it until it no longer triggers you," she explains, offering hope for those caught in cycles of automatic reactions that lead to exhaustion.
Boundary-setting emerges as another crucial skill for burnout prevention. Maryanne illuminates how high-achievers often unknowingly take on others' responsibilities, creating unsustainable workloads. She provides practical guidance for breaking free from codependent dynamics in both professional and personal relationships.
The discussion culminates with a profound exploration of hope as the essential fuel for resilience. Drawing inspiration from Viktor Frankl's work, Maryanne reminds us that finding meaning and purpose—even in small daily experiences—provides the energy needed to persist through challenges. Her parting wisdom: hope and intrinsic joy remain accessible even in our most difficult moments, offering a path forward when burnout threatens to overwhelm.
Discover practical strategies for balancing ambition with wellbeing in this thought-provoking conversation that will resonate with anyone striving for success without sacrificing their health.
More on Maryanne Nicholls and the services she offers at https://www.thejoyofliving.co/
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Thank you for listening!
Hello everyone, this is Nicole Ellis McGregor, the founder of the Overcomers Approach podcast. This podcast is really for those who are experiencing any type of pitfalls in life or challenges or valleys and mountains. We all experience those, life, will life and we will continue to face challenges as we go to our goals, our accomplishments. Whatever we have before us, the overarching theme of Overcomers Approach is that we can basically overcome anything that is set before us, whether that's through therapy, whether that's through different body modalities, whether that's through spirituality, whatever your approach is, or maybe it's even a holistic approach. So I'm honored to have Mary Ann Nichols here today.
Speaker 1:She has a practice that she's been in existence since 2002. She's a registered psychotherapist with CRPO, a certified EMDR practitioner, a certified Just Thoughts therapist and a past president of the International Association for the Advancement of Just Thought Therapy. She holds additional certifications in narrative therapy, brain spotting, mindfulness-based cognitive therapy, emotion-focused therapy and trauma attachment psychotherapy. Together she feels that we can overcome challenges, burnout in life for those success-driven women who have different responsibilities, different things coming towards them in their lives, different goals that we have in life. But the overarching thing, like I said, is we're able to overcome those. Marianne, I am so happy to have you here today. Tell me what got you into this field in the first place. Was it a personal experience, a personal story? How did you get here in the first?
Speaker 2:place. Was it a personal experience, a personal story? How did you get here? And I'm really delighted to be here.
Speaker 2:Nicole. Well, it is a personal experience First of all. Even though I went into business big time for quite a while in my life, I was trained in psychology and I kept on getting trained in psychology and in psychotherapy and eventually life circumstances got me to reconsider what I was doing and I ended up in therapy land, becoming a therapist and a coach for women, who mostly women, but also I have quite a few men who are like me in how they live. Yeah, it really intrigued me that so many of us go around feeling guilty for who we are and people like me are ambitious and we're always energized for something and somehow we felt guilty about it and I was included in that. I wanted to do something about it.
Speaker 1:Awesome. I love that. I like the fact that you have some personal experience and personal journey of going to therapy yourself, which I have personal experience in as well. That, really, which I have personal experience in as well. That, really, when change came from me is when I entered into therapy, and that was a little challenging for my family because from and I think things are definitely changing now, but when I entered into therapy years ago, it wasn't a thing that my family was even open to. I think it was more fear of the unknown, not trusting systems, and but I'm so happy that I stepped outside of the box and really tapped into therapy because it really was a change for me for the better and it really allowed me to model those behaviors and new way of thinking or maybe even tapping into my strengths that were already there that I just needed someone to be a guide for me to help me with that. So I'm so grateful and I know that therapy may not be for everybody, but I know that more people are really leaning into that to really get the best out of life and to our fullest potential and changing some patterns that need to be changed in our lives. So I'm grateful that you have that personal experience as well.
Speaker 1:For women who are leaning into therapy and maybe they're in entrepreneurship or leaders in the spaces that they're in but also have family responsibilities, burnout is a real thing and health. You know, once we start facing that burnout, our body will start telling us, like you're burning out, it's time to take a pause or do something different. What do you think some of the challenges are for people that are facing burnout and their body is beginning to tell them that things are not working. Or maybe they're getting messages at work as well, you know. What do you think people can do to kind of lean into change or be open to therapy? What do you think are one of the first signs that are coming up and what do you think they need to do?
Speaker 2:Well, for most of us, one of the first signs is that we get unhealthy.
Speaker 2:We get sick because there's a kind of excitement about doing too much and always being on the move, and so it's really hard to give up. Also, our culture really pays people well and rewards them for being so busy, and so those two things combined make it really really hard to give that up. And one of the things that somebody like me really doesn't want to hear or do is told that I have to give it up, that I have to relax, that I have to, you know, stop wanting so much or doing so much and become another person who isn't me.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So I don't think that's the answer, and I certainly don't facilitate that kind of thing, and I haven't done that in my own life. I think the answer is to yes, definitely take your body messages seriously, because our body gives up on us or, you know, needs a rest. It really lets us know and it's really important to listen to that, and one of the things I've noticed is that I don't know about most people, but I was certainly not taught to listen to my body. I was taught to do the exact opposite, and so one of the first things that I work with, with my clients, is to reacquaint them with what their body is telling them, because without our body, what else are we gonna do? We can't do anything. We need our health that's right. So our body is so, so important.
Speaker 1:Yes, the thing you said that I think is really important like, without our body, what else can we do? Health is really wealth. You know, like you said, our society pays us well to do great things and to kind of, you know, go at it and just get to work and do it and, you know, if we perform well and those outcomes show we even drive even harder sometimes, drive even harder sometimes. And it's really, like you said, really beginning to listen to our body when we become unwell, because without our body we at some point we're not going to do well personally or professionally, because our body can give out, it can give out on us.
Speaker 1:And I know a number of people and women who are, you know, beginning to face, you know, body issues. You know, beginning to face, you know body issues. You know whether that's breast cancer, whether that's stress, anxiety, depression, you know our body will begin to tell us when we have to really like slow down and take a pause and it's really okay, like it's okay because we really need to be here. At the end of the day, we can always start, pause and restart again.
Speaker 1:But I like the fact that we really need to listen to our bodies and, like you said, coming from an environment where we're kind of trained and taught and I was the same way like we don't listen to our bodies, you just have to just take an aspirin yeah yeah, don sleep, you'll wake up fine, you know, and it's kind of like, you know, we're trained to be workers and that's okay in one sense, but in another sense, there's so many other parts of ourselves that are so much, very, very, very important and we can't really tap into the fullest purpose of our imagination, our creativity, our fullest potential If we're kind of we're just got our head down at the plow and just kind of working really hard, um, cause we can always restart and reset at any point, you know, and so I like the fact that you said that, um, in terms of really beginning to key in and listen to our bodies when we become unwell, and really becoming self-aware that that's okay, that that is actually okay.
Speaker 1:I love that. What do you think a holistic approach to when we do face burnout? What do you think some methods holistic work for people when they know they're burned out like it's time to. We've accepted it, we acknowledged it, it's here. What do you think is a holistic approach to addressing that?
Speaker 2:Well, first of all, I hope that we find out, that the person finds out or that you find out or anybody like that, before you burn out, because when you're really and truly burnt out, it's so much harder to get back on that. Yes, bandwagon or horse or whatever, yeah, and it's so. I again listen to your body, and that's the first thing. It's self, self-awareness, and the only way that works is really and truly is self-acceptance, and that's another thing that most of us don't want. We don't really accept ourselves, we don't accept how we look, we don't accept where we are in life. We want to be someplace else, and that future focus means that we aren't present, and if we aren't present, there's no way we can really be in touch with who we are and what we need.
Speaker 2:Physically, mentally, emotionally, spiritually. It can't be, because it's always about the future, and so it is self-acceptance, and maybe it is slowing down, maybe not. So I was just talking to somebody the other day a young man, as a matter of fact, and he's come, he's recently discovered that his attitude towards work as being something that he had to do and get over with so he could do the things he really loved to do was actually wearing him out. He was fighting with himself over working or playing, and it wasn't until he began to let go of that that that energy eater of that inner resistance ended up going away and he ended up having lots of energy and so it wasn't so much that he was doing too much he's always busy.
Speaker 2:It much that he was doing too much, he's always busy, it was that he was fighting himself.
Speaker 1:Wow, I really like that that you used him as an example. I could think of a number of people that could identify with that Right. Coming to that self acceptance, you know, I think that is so very, very important and, like you said, really tapping into that, that self-acceptance, what do you think the first step? I've met people I was one of those people too where you don't even know how to even title it, you don't even know what you're feeling at even at that point like to even get to the self-acceptance piece. What do you think some of those pieces are that can lead people into self-acceptance piece? What do you think some of those pieces are that can lead people into self-acceptance?
Speaker 2:oh my, um, it usually means they get help. Yeah, um, it's. It's at the point where you're willing to open the door and ask for help from maybe a self-help book, maybe a friend, maybe a professional, it doesn't matter. It's the willingness to reach out and start to consider other alternatives. Because, like the old saying goes, it's sometimes attributed to Jung, it's sometimes attributed to Einstein and to other people, which is, if you do the same thing over and over again and expect different results, that's called insanity, and so you can't do what you've been doing. You have to do something else. That's very, very, very hard, not to mention scary.
Speaker 1:Yes, thank you, that is so, uh helpful and I think, just in layman's terms, you know some people that like going into that self-acceptance means reaching out for help, whether that's picking up a book, that's reaching out for a mentor, that's reaching out to a coach or a spiritual advisor. But just step, the first step is stepping out so to help you become aware, and so that is so, so, very helpful. Thank you, I appreciate that for, especially for our listeners. I kind of don't know where to start or which direction to go. That first small step is just acknowledging is that I need help and it's okay to reach out and ask for help. Acknowledging is that I need help and it's okay to reach out and ask for help.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I love that. And you mentioned that pause. You know taking a breath, it's okay to you know, take a moment, it is true, because that pause will help you start to shift into a different direction and a different approach.
Speaker 1:Yes, for sure. I completely believe that that is definitely a philosophy that I take, that it's okay to take just a brief pause, just to reset for a moment, just to be in the present, because being so future focused for me caused anxiety. I know I needed to set goals, small and short. I'm one of those people that have to break down goals to get to the big part. I'm sure that has some root issues to that, but I, if it's like, oh, I got to get my master's, like I did get my master's, but I literally had to break it down and take like night classes first, then I went and got my associates, then I got my bachelor's, then I got my master's. I knew I was going to get it, but just the thought of me getting the master's overwhelmed me and caused me anxiety, and so I know that that works for me and I think we have to individually know what works for us. Along with the help of a therapist who can kind of guide us through that, or a coach, is really, really, really helpful.
Speaker 1:I'm really interested in some of my work. That I do in my personal life is professional life is that I'm a community resource navigator, so I work with public safety, which I'm really happy they're doing this. In the city that I live in, a lot of our calls are mental health calls and we really wanted to redirect those calls, not to our police officers, because they're there to serve and protect, but when there's immediate harm or threat. Sometimes they will get those mental health calls or behavioral calls, or someone's having a crisis or a meltdown, but we really want to redirect those calls to services that can really help them. We don't want to have them entrapped in a system that's ultimately going to be more aggressive or, you know, really not meet the need of that mental health need.
Speaker 1:And I'm starting to see people experience trauma in different ways in life. You know whether that's an experience in their life. It could be so much war, it could be. You know, maybe they're from another country and they experienced war, they experienced trauma in their own families. And so tell me a little bit more about EMDR. I have a friend who did it. She, she gave like the praises about it. She really, really loved it and I won't share her story, but she shared it with me, but it was just really. She really began to tap into her gifts and talents and her purpose and it really accelerated after she went through that. Can you tell me a little bit more about EMDR therapy?
Speaker 2:Yeah, EMDR therapy. It fits so well with gestalt because they're both somatic based and it is used a lot and people associate it with helping people with extreme trauma like PTSD. But honestly it can help anybody who has a pattern that is unbeneficial to them, because usually when do our patterns or unbeneficial patterns kick in? It's when we're stressed.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:We get triggered and that means that we're not really present. We are automatically reacting in the same way that we reacted before when we were stressed before for similar reasons. So EMDR helps to take that pattern. You go all the way back to when it first started. Take that pattern and work with it until it no longer triggers you.
Speaker 1:Wow.
Speaker 2:And then keep doing that until you really aren't triggered by that particular kind of situation again, and that gives you the freedom and the space to do something different. Yeah, and so it works so well with what I do as a therapist in other ways and as a coach that I I use it quite frequently.
Speaker 1:Yes, thank you. Thank you, I so appreciate that and thank you for really breaking that down for me. I know, like I said, I heard it through a friend and I think so many people could benefit from it, especially, like you said, you go back to that route, the history, when the pattern first started. I can think of a number of people or reasons or situations, whether that came, whether they're, you know, choosing to select, maybe, the wrong partner continuously, over and over again, and how they react to that situation and how to respond.
Speaker 2:yeah, yeah, we go into automatic, and when we're in automatic we really can't deal with anything else. You know, we're sort of headed in a particular direction, whether we like it or not yes, thank you.
Speaker 1:thank you. I so appreciate that. It gives more insight and I'm sure more of our listeners insight as well. Um, and I've seen the benefits through my friend, um, and so when she told me about it I didn't have an opportunity to really more insight and I'm sure more of our listeners insight as well, and I've seen the benefits through my friend and so when she told me about it I didn't have an opportunity to really dive deep into it. But you're giving me some more insight to that and I'm sure my listeners can tap into that as well. I so appreciate that.
Speaker 1:Work life balance. We, a lot of us, are having responsibilities and and some of my peers you know we're dealing with aging parents, we're dealing with youth, our children that are maybe going into college or their careers, and so we're we're kind of being responsible for ourselves but being supportive to our family members, but also we have professions and careers as well to our family members, but also we have professions and careers as well, and we always have this discussion about balance. How can we balance that, or what does that look like? Do you feel like balance is a real thing, or is it a reality? Or is it really just sustainability, trying to support everybody, including ourselves. Do you think that's real or is it a myth? What are your thoughts on that?
Speaker 2:Oh, I don't think it's a myth. I do think it's real, but sometimes it can end up being not so much a myth, but maybe the wrong thing to focus on. If you have aging parents and they're living at your house, or if you have a child with special requirements, or if your partner has Alzheimer's or something that can just sap your strength, because, first of all, you care about those people and you want to be with them as much as possible. Secondly, you probably feel guilty every time you're not with them.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:That's a big one for parents.
Speaker 1:For sure.
Speaker 2:And that means that there's a resistance. I was talking about the resistance and the inner resistance.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And that has to go. If you're an entrepreneur, then there's also that, yeah, and so there's that feeling of guilt and there's that tug of war inside you. Yes, I've certainly felt it and a lot of the people I work with have definitely felt it.
Speaker 2:And that is what needs to be resolved. It's the inner tug of war that needs to be resolved, so that you can release that energy and start being able to be present enough to focus on what's the priority for now. Yes, you have to change your plans and start working on it and relaxing into it, instead of trying to force something.
Speaker 1:Yes, I love that, thank you. That is so that tug of war and that inner resistance and having to release some things and what's the priority for now, because those priorities could change. Yeah, and I can definitely identify with that in my own family as well, and so thank you for that. I greatly appreciate it. Another thing that has really come up in conversations personally professionally is boundaries. Personally, professionally is boundaries, and that can go in so many different directions. But having those boundaries, I know are really important. But for people who struggle with boundaries, maybe they came from a family that didn't really have them, or I've been in professional spaces and places where boundaries can get great sometimes and we can get unhealthy when we do not have them. What do you think? Where can people tap into professionally and professionally personally, how to set boundaries and why are they important?
Speaker 2:Yeah, boundaries. So people who work too much often don't have very good boundaries. I can attest to that. They take on other people's responsibilities without even knowing it and then, of course, when people get used to it, they expect you to take on their responsibilities, and that often leads to burnout, because it becomes a kind of impossible, untenable situation. You've just got too much on your plate.
Speaker 2:You can't even get to the things you want to do because you're too busy doing the things for others that they want you to do, and so boundaries can be loose boundaries, porous boundaries, rigid boundaries, which are kind of the other side of the same coin, are an indicator that you're not taking care of yourself.
Speaker 2:You're taking care of other people instead of yourself. You're taking care of other people instead of yourself, and it isn't. The answer is not to not do anything for anybody else. The answer is to get interested and curious about what's really going on. That lets you cross your own bottom lines over and over and over again and think that's okay, isn't okay yes, thank you.
Speaker 1:Thank you for just confirming that, like you said, when we don't have them, and like you said, it can go from not having boundaries to having rigid boundaries that go from one extreme to the other just really becoming aware of when we're not in our most functional, healthiest places and just if we need support on what that looks like, you know, maybe reaching out to a therapist, reaching out to a coach to change those patterns. We're winding down to the last few minutes of the podcast and I do, you know, have another question, another that's come up, is enablement. Whether that's with our adult children or you're working with a client, you know where you want to really empower people and not do for them. What do you think what can help people who struggle?
Speaker 1:I know there's a real fear with parents if they have adult children who may be struggling some areas and they want to do, do, do. Maybe that's paying, you know, doing too much versus allowing their child to kind of figure things out and that's really based out of fear. You know, I get it, I I experienced that and I needed therapy to help me work through that. Yeah, I didn't really have and there was some point where I had to let go and trust the process. What advice would you give parents of children maybe they're minors or maybe they're adults where they're more enabling them versus really empowering them to kind of figure out life? What does that look like?
Speaker 2:yeah, uh, hmm yeah, it look you, I you've heard of the codependent triangle, yes, um, and that's what you're talking about, uh, where there's always three roles, whether there's two people or three people or more than that, yeah, is the rescuer, the victim and the perpetrator, and those three roles tend to rotate and morph and change so that everybody gets a chance to be something like they're either the rescuer or the victim or the perpetrator, and it never feels good for anybody.
Speaker 2:And yet especially in families. Most of us probably grew up learning about that kind of unhealthy way of being with each other, and so it is about breaking that pattern, and all it takes is one, and there's going to be a lot of resistance from the other people because everybody has bought into it. Right, it's about breaking that pattern, and if you're usually the rescuer, then it's about becoming the supporter yeah, and even saying it sounds so much better and healthier it does.
Speaker 2:And it's hard. It's actually hard to do. If you're the perpetrator, you're probably the one trying to shove good information down somebody else's throat yeah, and it's again to sit back and not get drawn into being that part of the unhealthy dynamic. And if you're the victim, then it's time to say to yourself I don't want to be a victim anymore. If I'm in this victim role, it's because I somehow allowed it to happen. So how can I get out of being the victim and being responsible for how I got in here?
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, thank you. That is very, very helpful and gives some additional insight. My final question is I'm meeting so many people, women, who are really, you know, either they're they're attaining more education than some, some of their family members have, or they're moving into an economic space that they haven't been in before, but they're still really learning. They're still learning and figuring this out because they're like the first person in their family to attain degrees, or the first person to maybe make six figures, and so at that same time, they still have family members that are still maybe haven't and and that's okay, they don't have to um, attain a degree doesn't necessarily mean success. It's whatever your life's purpose is for you.
Speaker 1:But I think some people can become so driven because we are rewarded to be like winners and leaders their lives so that they can attain the success they want, at the same time, operating and functioning in a family that maybe struggles with that a bit. What do you, what do you? And we still want to be leaders, we still want to become to our fullest purpose. But that work, that family balance, that career balance, what do you think women could do to kind of satisfy their own intrinsic drive and value with balancing family as well?
Speaker 2:Now do you mean? I'm a little unclear do you mean in terms of hurt feelings or being separated from on both sides?
Speaker 1:Yes, I think it causes a separation and a divide, and judgment and judgment for sure.
Speaker 2:Judgments at each other instead of and feeling hurt, feeling jealous, maybe, feeling all kinds of things, and it really, and it really, it really helps to be empathetic, yes, and to not lose contact like open-hearted. Don't go into those walls because, as soon as you do that, you might as well be in a boxing ring.
Speaker 1:I agree, yes, yes, yeah, and I definitely agree, like what you said, just being empathetic and understanding, you know, and having that compassion and just really looking at the strengths within the family, I think is just really, really important have, and they, we, they kind of struggle with that and I've struggled with it too, but I think for me, once I just let go and looked at the strengths within my family like, this is where I come from. I wouldn't want to come from anything else. This is the reason that I'm the woman that I am here today.
Speaker 1:This is why I have an empathetic lens, because I did experience a lot of trauma within my family. I wouldn't want to have come from another family. Because I can hear somebody's lived experience and I can really identify with it, not from a place of judgment.
Speaker 1:You know, I know I'm more so looking at it from not so why are they that way? But what happened? And where can we have like some shared agreements and shared conversation and be courageous about it and curious, yeah, yeah. My last question is, as you do this work, what gives you hope? Yeah, the world is kind of there's a lot going on right now, so what gives you hope in the midst of everything that's going on of?
Speaker 2:everything that's going on? Oh, good question. And we cannot live without hope. Yeah, truly, that is what keeps us going, that's what keeps our spirits alive, that's what gives us energy, that's the whole thing to aim for, is something that gives us hope. Viktor Frankl you probably know about him. He survived Auschwitz. He was a psychiatrist. He became a leader in psychiatry, really focusing on people who had OCD. Yes, he has written a lot about how important hope is. Yes, having meaning and purpose in your life. And, you know, trying to find it like, finding it in some way shape or form and I'm sure that so many people are like me in that's. What gets me up, is a hopefulness that today will be wonderful, like something about it will be wonderful. Yeah, I wish I could put it in clearer terms. It is an attitude.
Speaker 2:It is an attitude and approach towards our own life. It is something that we've got out there, it's something that we've got in here and, like he said, that is the one thing that nobody can ever take from you.
Speaker 1:That's right. Oh, I love that. I love that. You know that hope is what we have, and we all have it. It's an attitude. It's the attitude of gratitude that something wonderful will happen, Whatever that may look like, whatever that, it's a sunset, I don't know. It's a promotion. It could be so many different things, but we have hope and that is key, and so thank you so very much for reminding myself and our listeners of that. There's hope every day that we wake up and take a breath, so I definitely appreciate it. Well, Mary Ann, this has been a wonderful conversation. I want to thank you for this time.
Speaker 1:I also want to give you an opportunity to leave your website. I know that you have a blog and more information. You have coaching and therapy sessions that are offered and you have that information on your website, but I want to give you an opportunity to leave that information. I will also leave it in the narrative when I complete the podcast and I put it out. In a week or two I'll have that information, but I just want you to be able to. What is your web information for people to get in touch with you for that information?
Speaker 2:My website is the joy of living. I know that that's a popular one, but I really. It's particular spirit, so it's the joy of livingco. Okay, and I have my blogs there. I have access to my video blogs as well, and the information is there on what I have to offer. Thank you.
Speaker 1:The joy of living, yeah, just love it. It resonates with me completely, yeah, yes, and so I love that and, just like hope, no one could take that from you, and our intrinsic joy, no one could take that from us either. So I really, really appreciate that and I love it, and so, with that, I make sure I'll put that in the narrative. Marianne, it has been a pleasure and I want to thank you for this time today.
Speaker 2:Oh, you're so welcome. It was so nice being with you for a while, Nicole. Thank you.