Overcomers Approach
“The Overcomers Approach” podcast showcases stories of resilience, where individuals transcend challenges to achieve personal and professional success. With a focus on spiritual, mental, emotional, physical, and financial growth, the podcast inspires listeners to embrace their potential and thrive in all areas of life. Join us to learn how overcoming adversity can lead to evolution, healing, and lasting success.
Overcomers Approach
Fighting for Us: How Couples Turn Pain and Trauma Into Deeper Love
I had an insightful conversation with Licensed Family and Marriage Therapist Kayla Crane. She specializes in relationships and trauma. She works with couples to help them improve communication, heal from infidelity, and develop conflict resolution skills. She practices relational life therapy, EMDR therapy, solution focused therapy, systematic affair recovery therapy, and attachment theory.
We converse about how conflict isn’t proof your relationship is broken; it’s a signal that growth is knocking. Therapist Kayla unpack show couples can turn tension into connection by building better communication, honoring trauma histories, and learning the language of attachment. From anxious protests to avoidant shutdowns, Kayla shows how small shifts—softer tone, staying present, clearer requests,create safety in the moments that matter most.
We dig into the real drivers behind blowups: family-of-origin patterns, lingering negative beliefs, and the subtle ways childhood messages echo in adult love. Kayla explains why trusting your partner’s subjective experience is essential and how to navigate “loud vs. quiet” communication styles without shaming or stonewalling. For parents, we talk about modeling healthy disagreement so kids learn that repair is normal. For caregivers, we cover boundary-setting and bite-size self-care to prevent burnout and preserve empathy at home.
If your relationship is recovering from infidelity, you’ll hear a clear, structured path forward: mapping early messages about trust, reviewing prior relationships for patterns, examining the couple’s shared history, and then addressing the affair with questions that build understanding without graphic details that do harm. We also share practical tactics you can use now—pick a neutral space for hard conversations, keep your bedroom a sanctuary, set short phone-free check-ins, and use simple touch to quietly reassure each other.
Whether you’re nurturing a new bond or renewing a long one, this conversation brings grounded tools and hope. Learn how to name triggers, translate feelings into needs, and create rituals that keep your connection warm even during stress. If this resonated, follow, share with someone who’d benefit, and leave a review to help others find the show.
More on Kayla and her services at https://www.southdenvertherapy.com/
Thank you for listening!
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Thank you for listening!
Good day, everyone. This is Nicole Ellis McGregor, the founder of the Overcomers Approach Podcast, where I meet with people from different walks of life, different experiences, different journeys, different expertise. But the overarching theme is we have the ability to overcome almost anything that we face in life. And I love the fact that I have Kayla Crane here. She's a licensed marriage and family therapist, and she works with uh families, couples. She has some experience in trauma and couples really navigating and working through relationships that can be difficult. Um, and anytime we have tools, a therapist, a coach that can come along and provide us with information, I'm always open to, and I know that other people are open as well. Kayla, thank you for being here in the Overcomers Approach today. I appreciate your presence and time today. Tell me, why did you become a licensed marriage family and therapist to get started? Yes.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, thanks for having me. Um, so yeah, I have had my own fair share of therapy and um and I had some really wonderful experiences and maybe some not so great experiences. Um, but I've always been like really fascinated with psychology. And after having some those wonderful experiences, I got really motivated and I also felt like I learned a lot from the negative experiences. Um, so that's why I became a therapist, and then I just randomly at a practice I was working at was given a couple to work with, which was so scary and overwhelming, but I ended up just loving it so much, and so now I work uh exclusively with couples.
SPEAKER_00:Awesome, awesome. I love that. I love the fact that you said, like, you know, having your own experiences, and you know, um, I think that's so, you know, it we don't have to have our own personal experiences, but I like the fact that you interjected that. I love that transparency and the fact that you worked with a couple and found that that was really like your gift, that was really your lane. And I um I I know, you know, being um in a marriage myself and had relationships in another marriage prior to my marriage, my first husband, I was a widow and I was a widow for seven years. So I've been married a couple of times, but I had um some relate a couple relationships in between that, and some were good and some uh some were a pleasant experience. But I think what I'm finding with you know my audience members and listeners and just friends and associates, that sometimes relationships can be difficult. Um, working through communication issues, conflict, and just really trying to make them work. Um, what what do you feel like are some of the biggest challenges for couples these days?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and you know, I think I wanted to say a lot of people um sometimes think that if the relationship is difficult, that's a negative. There's something wrong with that. Um, but relationships are inherently difficult. That's what they are. And sometimes I give the analogy of like going to the gym, right? Like you always want the working out to be challenging, you always want it to be difficult, or else you're not growing. Right. And so you know, comparing that to a relationship, it's kind of similar in that way that that's just part of it, you know. Um it's always learning and growing and you know, continuing uh communication because as humans that's what we do. And so we gotta keep up with each other. But yeah, I definitely uh communication is the the root of everything because all the other issues can be resolved if you have the healthy communication. And so that's what really needs to get like managed is how we can talk about the problems rather than solving each individual problem that's not realistic. You know, we can't anticipate everything that's gonna come up. But if we can develop the tools to talk about the difficult things that do come up, then that's the key.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, I agree. And and I also agree with you saying that, you know, um, just because there's problems or there's you run working through a conflict, that's not necessarily a negative because that's really how we're gonna grow and learn and develop. And I know there was a time in my life, once there was a conflict, I was gone. Like I was a runner. Um, and you know, I and I and you know, as we live this life, we find out that every relationship is gonna have issues or conflicts that you have to work through. And definitely having tools to support that is very important. I I and I believe more families and couples can say what they have if they have the tools to manage and navigate through that for sure. Um, one thing that comes up is we people experience traumas, whether in early childhood or in life, or maybe they had a traumatic relationship. And how do you feel like trauma impacts relationships these days?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, you know, we childhood is what forms us as humans, right? That's what how we become us. And trauma doesn't necessarily have to be um like a huge event. You know, those are as well, but it can even be a comment that a a classmate made of somebody and it just happens to stick. We never know what like memories are gonna stick. And so, you know, one little comment could actually create a negative belief in someone and they hold on to that their whole life. So um that is those negative beliefs are completely impact your relationship because that's what how you you interpret things through that lens. And so a lot of times when people when they have a response that might seem a little bit like confusing or maybe disproportionate to the scenario, likely they're responding to a situation from their past. They're not responding to their actual partner that they're speaking to in that moment, they're responding to, you know, that that bully that they talked to or that angry parent or whatever it is. And so I think that's so important because without that recognition and knowledge, it can like drive people apart so much. Um it just doesn't make sense. But um, once you have you can put the pieces together, it's oh my gosh, now it makes sense why when I did this, they got really, really upset in that way.
SPEAKER_00:Yes. And I I like the fact that you said like um those negative negative experiences, I think should be validated no matter how small or big. Like you said, it could be a bully, or maybe it's something more extreme, you know, we don't to quantify the trauma, but everybody has it, whether small little ones or a bigger one or a combination or vicarious trauma, that it really impacts when people go into relationship because they may not really be responding to the person, but that self-talk from way back when, you know, um, and and I'm sure that that really leads to not good communication issues, and then it could ultimately lead to the to the that relationship dissolving because that issue is really, really never addressed. And so how important do you think it is? And and I think you know, we all with lived experiences, how important it is for people to be honest and address that as they navigate through the relationships or marriage or what that is up opposed to like stuffing it away. Um, how important do you think it is for them to really address that?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, it's it's critical. Um it's critical. Uh if they're not, then they're probably just not that they probably really have a wall up from their partner. So, you know, stuffing it down, it comes out in different ways. Unfortunately, that doesn't, you know, that's not as effective as sometimes people, you know, want it to be. Um so I think, you know, it really is important to at least to be able to acknowledge and recognize this is what's going on here. And I do a lot of uh trauma work with both um both clients in session because it's it they can work as a team, right? That's relationality. And you know, if somebody is triggered from a past trauma, their partner might be able to say, I remember we worked on this, I saw that you know, they had a um really angry parent. And so when I raise my voice a little bit, they start getting, you know, really scared they shut down or whatever. And so they can work together in that way.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, I completely agree. And like you said, being more collaborative and working more as a team because that's what they are, you know, and then getting that wall down that may be up for whatever reason, um, that just creates a barrier. And then, you know, it allows them to grow and understand each other more, you know, as they work through their relationship. That makes complete sense to me 100%. Um, and I like I said, um, I have my own lived experience. And I think um, you know, I think I might have had abandonment issues because my parents um were teen parents when they had me, and my grandparents took me. And my grandparents already had 13 kids, and I was like the 14th. And so there was this, you know, kind of my my I feel like my aunts and uncles are kind of my siblings, but they were like, We're this wait, wait a minute. You she's getting exclusive parenting that we didn't have, and then my parents weren't there, so then I kind of walked around with this sense of like, when is the ball gonna drop? And why will I not be liked, you know, based on just circumstances and life situation. So I could totally relate to that. Um, and and it's still like a really a work in progress, but every day, every year gets better, and the more I'm more transparent about it, it not only affects my marriage, but my my my parenting skills, me, me and me at work, you know, it just makes a big difference. So I ultimately like if people do get couples therapy, how it could really kind of overflow in other areas of their life. Yeah. Right.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. You know, if you know your partner struggles with abandonment, hopefully, you know, you can learn to, I need to stay present, right? When I'm upset, I don't just disappear.
SPEAKER_03:That's right.
SPEAKER_01:And um I do a lot of attachment theory work, and usually abandonment is paired with rejection.
SPEAKER_03:Yes.
SPEAKER_01:So, you know, it can be really confusing. Like, um, I have anxious attachment, and so I feel rejected. It is not difficult for me to get there. Yeah, um, it could be something that looks really small and it doesn't even make sense. Um, like if I'm talking to someone and they answer a text message on their phone or something, that can, you know, really hurt and it'll sometimes take a minute, like, wait, why am I having this reaction? That's right. And I can look and okay, now it it makes sense, and I can be aware of that. But also, like I said, my partner can be a little more intentional about those things, you know, and they're more likely to do that if they understand.
SPEAKER_00:That's right. Yes, yes. That that's completely right. And like you said, any small little thing could trigger something, and somebody's like, I do, you know, but it could simply like be your attention may be focused on something that's not you, and then it could just spring right from there. So I completely, I completely understand that. Um, how do, and I love the fact that you deal with, you know, attachment theory, and you know, because that's a big thing. And I think the more we focus on that and understand it, the more that we can move forward in life completely 100%. Yes. What do you feel like now? Some couples deal with their marriages, infidelity, and and that that that definitely does occur. Um, some people can survive infidelity, some people can't. Um, what can couples do? Or this is probably a two-part question because infidelity can happen for so many different reasons. It could happen for attachment theory issues for so many different reasons. But when a couple faces that, um, what can they survive that? And what tools can they use to navigate through that?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I actually specialize in infidelity. Um, and so people they do uh it is definitely possible to survive that. Um, I see it more often than not, but also I'm I'm seeing people that are already coming in for therapy. But um but it's not uncommon that people come in and they they already they say, I am already kind of out. I'm giving this a try just to like kind of check the box, and it really can, you know, get better. Um the way the the training that I have for uh infidelity is called systematic affair recovery therapy. And I really like it because uh it's very structured and we start with first each partner's family of origin and we explore that and then we come up with those beliefs that they developed as child, um, any messages they might have received about infidelity. Then we go through each of their relational histories, so any relationships they had before their current relationship. Um again, you know, looking for more beliefs that were likely reinforced from their family of origin, but also could have been developed through there. Um and even sometimes people say, Well, I had like a a boyfriend in sixth grade, but that doesn't really matter. But actually those do because when you're in sixth grade, it it's in it's very important to you then, right? And so those things like that still sticks in your mind, even though maybe as an adult you can say, oh, that was kind of silly, but it didn't feel that way, and your brain didn't feel bad like that.
SPEAKER_03:That's right.
SPEAKER_01:So yeah, and then we go to the couple's entire relational history trying to learn about what what was going on here, what hasn't been working, what what was we connect all of it. What how was this, you know, this belief getting activated in the relationship and what wasn't working? What were you not talking about? What were you not realizing or understanding that maybe your partner was asking for, maybe they weren't, maybe you were not asking for it. Um, maybe you didn't even realize that that was something important to you. A lot of times people they can't really put their finger on it.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Um and so we just go through all of that and then we talk about the story of the infidelity and kind of all of that. Um so I think that that's really important to uh kind of explore all of those things.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:But um, for people that don't have access to therapy, I definitely remember um suggest reading books on it and trying to um trying to really understand as best as possible. There are a lot of books that are um written kind of in case you can't access therapy. Um and so I think that that's kind of the best thing to do, also being um like aware of what what kind of questions you're asking each other. That's something I I'm very um cautious of and very aware. You need to know the facts of what happened, but you don't need to know the the details.
SPEAKER_03:That's right.
SPEAKER_01:And so those details can actually uh oftentimes do much more harm than good. Um that will kind of stick in their brain and it's not but you know contributing to any kind of understanding. So those are the questions you need to know the what makes you understand, but not all the details.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Um and yeah, I also recommend not ever talk, always talking about it in a neutral place. So um don't have the conversation in your bedroom because you're gonna then have a negative association in your bedroom if you do stay together. Right. So I think that's a good kind of general, some general tools that you can use to kind of work through it if you don't have access to therapy.
SPEAKER_00:Yes. I, you know, the fact that you, you know, have these several different components um to infidelity and addressing, you know, really going back to the family origin and what's influenced you, like who your role models, what were your lived experiences, what messages you got, I think that is like so important and pivotal. Some people think that's really not important. They're like, oh no, like you said, something that may have happened in sixth grade, you may know that's not important, but you like you said, that is an important part of your life, and that's that's where you're forming trust the relationships and all that. And so to go back, uh and and if you don't know your history, you really don't know kind of where you want to go or go. And so that's the first time I really uh heard about that, and I think that is definitely key. And like you said, doing a relationship like assessment to talk about the relationships you had prior to the the one that you have with the person that you're with, to really kind of go through those and then talk about what was going on, you know, what what what did I do? What did I not do? Like really, really breaking that down and and really understanding more. Um, I think that could be definitely good, great tools. And like you said, if they don't have access to a therapist, there's books out there that people could read, you know, to get more information, to get more knowledge to help them work through that. And then, like you said, don't have the conversation in the bedroom. Um, I that's very important. And then, two, you don't need to know everything. I completely agree with that, you know, just some of the generals surrounding it, um, because that can play in a person's head forever. And like you said, maybe even do more harm. Um, and and I that's just really, really good. And then some people may experience infidelity and maybe the partner doesn't want to talk about it. Oh, it's just over, it's done. But if you don't address that, that's not going anywhere. That that whatever whatever started it or whatever triggered it, if if it's not addressed, it'll just kind of keep cycling itself through. That's my from what I've observed. And so, and and the fact that people can, if they decide they want to salvage their marriage or a relationship, there is tools and there's support to help them do that, and they can come out on the other side stronger. Yeah. So yeah, yeah, I really like that. Yes. Yeah. What do you think in terms of let's say, um, because uh couples go through things, but in this world that we live in, you know, we're all getting older, someone may experience maybe. may be like a a short-term health crisis or disability. And that could be challenging even within the with the relationship. Do you have any suggestions as people navigate through that? Um, you know, how can they strengthen their um marriage or relationship as they work through uh like my such as myself being a caregiver right now, um, but my caregiving duties are much less than before. But um as that's that's that could be very hard. What suggestions do you recommend as well?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, you know, um I think it's so important to be and it can be challenging, I can understand that, but to be able to also um build in a little bit of self-care sometimes for yourself, whatever however you can do that if you do have the luxury of you know having some help.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:But not everyone has that and so in those ways you know you might get a little bit creative. Yes. But that will burn a lot of people out to not have any of their self-care and it could also create some resentment.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And so I think that that would be the most um the most realistic tool to have is just really making sure you've um got you can incorporate as much self-care as possible. When possible being able to kind of set boundaries again I understand sometimes that's just not possible. But if it is, you know, try to use that and that will actually those things will make you a better caregiver. Yes because you have more bandwidth you have more you know um just ability to really help others.
SPEAKER_00:I agree I agree 100% uh and thank you for the information that's always like a constant reminder and um just always something to keep in the forefront and like you said create those boundaries when you can um for those small moments of just self-care and sustainability. I want to circle back real quick like when people do address their family of origin, let's say their family it could be they could be so extremely different, you know, because and and that's hard because you're coming from your family who helped create you and influence you and you know you may have one family that's extremely extroverted and emotional and another family may be really very reserved and we don't talk about you know we don't talk about much it's just presentation. But the couple wants to bring their two worlds together um and I and I know that could be like challenging at times and I know you've I think just you talking about communication already what tools can people have they love their families and they want them to still be a part of their life but you have the focus of your marriage and relationship how do people navigate around that so that I don't know if you can make everybody happy but what does that look like yeah you know first is kind of awareness that no one grew up in a perfect household.
SPEAKER_01:Yes and so um but sometimes I mean that's all you knew growing up right and so sometimes you have no idea that maybe this wasn't a healthy behavior or maybe this wasn't modeled to you appropriately. So I think trying to understand that and be aware of that something I see often when it comes to you know completely different households. That example you gave maybe somebody came from like a very you know uh like loud chaotic family and the other family might have been very quiet and reserved is people have different measures of their response. And so the person that came from a chaotic family they might be speaking really loud and uh their partner might say stop yelling at me right going wait this is not yelling like I'm not yelling as that's what I saw. But to the partner that grew up in the reserved family it really does feel like that. You know so I think staying aware and being compassionate and trying to understand your partner that oh they're they're probably not just saying that if you know if they're not really experiencing that. And I think that's also important trusting your partner if they say this doesn't feel good to me I don't like this like under hearing that you know likely people aren't saying things just to hurt the other or just to be you know I hear a lot of times people say um oh they just love to complain. People don't usually really do they're asking for change maybe not in a healthy way maybe they can work on that um communication but they're they're looking for something and usually ultimately they're looking for something so they can stay in the relationship.
SPEAKER_00:That's right. Yeah like you said there's a need there and kind of expressing whatever that need is and I like the fact that you said like um there's measures to that you know like and so somebody could be completely misinterpreting your you know the way you're communicating with them as being aggressive or assertive and it's just the highly intensely emotional loud talking family you came from it's nothing personal. But like you said then have a little compassion about it and kind of step back and see what what what kind of works for you guys, you know, or you know uh and just you know someone just acknowledging that oh that's not how I meant to make you feel like you said no one really intensely I don't think comes out to just intently hurt people but it's just really understanding and communicating more and and I like the fact that you said that you know as people you know evolve and grow in relationships um conflict will occur and and like you said conflict is not always bad it's an opportunity to kind of talk more to to build on your relationship more um what would you say to those that think that you know conflict is you know just always bad it's not like what are some of the benefits of working through conflict or a conflict that may occur yeah yeah yeah I mean usually you know if people didn't sometimes when people come in they'll say we don't fight at all that's right that's a red flag you know because you're different human beings you've got different brains and sometimes you know some people have more conflict than others but you know it's not abnormal if it if that's not happening that one person is not at least one person isn't sharing what they're what they need or you know what they're hoping for what's hurtful um and that really can create a lot of resentment down the down the road um and it can create a lot of frustration from the the other partner as well because they're going wait why are you kind of shut down today what's what's going on here and they just don't understand it because they're not given that information also you know if if children are involved it is so important to model healthy conflict um and not yelling and screaming and shouting but for kids to be able to see that oh people can disagree people will disagree sometimes and that it's still okay there's still you know that doesn't mean anything necessarily negative or anything bad when people don't when children don't witness that they often go into a relationship thinking oh my gosh one fight could mean the end of the relationship because they haven't been it hasn't been modeled to them that a disagreement doesn't it's not bad it doesn't necessarily mean anything.
SPEAKER_01:Right you just try to understand your partner more. And so that I think that's really important for people especially parents to keep in mind.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah it's very important like role modeling what does working through conflict look like in a healthy way um because they're just going to go into school or the world and just kind of replicate maybe something that's not so positive. And the more they see that healthy communication, you know, I think it just overall is just better for the family. And I know I got a couple more minutes here we're winding down and I just wanted to ask a couple more questions. My other question is um people really want to make their relationships work. What are some key things that they could do to nurture you know and you know I know people have date nights they do certain things that kind of nurture the happiness in there and the joy in the relationship and every relationship has their peaks you know and valleys where you know you're super committed to work or maybe you're hit with a temporary crisis but your focus is to really nurture and you want to remain and stay in that what are some tools that they can use to just help uh nurture that relationship or marriage what does that look like yeah I think it is important to just keep it in mind that it's it is hard you know and that means that is good like it means we're growing um and so I think that helps just kind of you prioritize that this is something that I need to always be working at.
SPEAKER_01:My partner needs to be working at it. I think yeah of course date nights are great they're not always um realistic all the time doing at-home date nights but even if you know if you spend even 10 minutes if you can set that aside but use it intentionally there's so many like games and stuff online that ask questions like they're understanding your partner better and even if you can set aside time to go through one of those it's that focused no phone time where it's just the two of you um and you're just getting a little more understanding about your partner and just having a really um like I said focused on each other conversation. So you don't have to have hours all the time to connect but all you know if you can at least set aside like 10 minutes. Another really important thing that's super easy is whenever you're together just be touching. Yes whatever way if your legs are touching if you're holding hands whatever it is just try to always be touching that is actually really connecting and simple.
SPEAKER_00:Yes I love that I love that and that's that that that is um that's that's key and I think you just the form of touch and connectingness you don't even that's a form of communication even if you're not talking so um I love that reminder um as people you know close out this new year we're going into the new year um I'm sure people have resolutions or you know they say try not to do those you know just you know try to just make it a lifestyle growth and changing um what key things do people before they even get into the relationship before you know I what are some key things that people can do for themselves so when they now decide to join with someone and make it to what do you think are some key things people should work on maybe individually before they even walk into a relationship or marriage?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah I think you know back to recognizing the impact of your upbringing of your earlier experiences earlier relationships trying to really like get curious about that about yourself um reflecting on like your history of why did I respond like that like I was kind of mentioning earlier. A lot of uh you can understand a lot about yourself by just learning your attachment style and right now there's so much information on attachment styles it's kind of like a hot topic I feel like social media and stuff. So there's a lot of information there and I love attachment styles because they look pretty consistent across the board. So anxious attachment style is going to have characteristics that almost everyone with an anxious attachment style will have. Like I said that rejection and abandonment. So if you can understand I tend to feel rejected or abandoned abandoned like that's incredibly beneficial to go into a relationship and communicate that to your partner. I have a tendency to feel this way. And if you have an avoidant attachment it's gonna be a fear failure worthlessness. So knowing that that's really helpful telling your partner please don't use the word disappointed with me or something like that. Yes the best thing you can do.
SPEAKER_00:Yes that's good like you said no kind of know who you are you know and be honest about it. And then I think the more open you are the more transparent the more authentic you are um then that parent that person can make a decision on you know if this is if this is if this is right for me. Is this something that I could do and then you're kind of starting off to me with just more awareness just like you said. And there's lots of information like you said it's all over social media about attachment styles it's there's several books about it. And I'm kind of stepping into and kind of learning my own as well because you're never too late to to know what you do and who you are and why you why you think the way you think and do the things you do. And how can I more effectively improve myself and myself in relationships. And so I think that is awesome. Kayla if people want to reach out to you and get more information about the services you have or anything that you may have written any any other services that you may offer or any written literature any other podcast you've done what website can they go to uh it's just uh southdenvertherapy.com my social media is uh Instagram Facebook just South Denver Therapy Okay thank you Kayla it has been a pleasure this morning uh talking about relationships conflict family of origin um how people can work through infidelity and come out on the other side better and understanding each other more attachment styles I gave I feel like you gave us a lot of information in such a short time uh and I know my listeners will appreciate um all the tools and advice that you've offered and again thank you for leaving your web link and information if people want to reach out to you I'll make sure that's in the description of the podcast um thank you Kayla I greatly appreciate it you've been really really empowering this morning and I know that my listeners will be as well thank you thanks so much for having me it was really nice speaking with you thank you