How A Wildland Fire Became A Story Of Survival And Community

A wall of fire doesn’t just burn trees, it burns through every assumption you had about safety, preparation, and what the human body can endure. I’m joined by 2023 Library of Congress award-winning author A.J. Otten to talk about Burned Over, her narrative nonfiction book about Montana firefighter Dan Stephenson and the Red Lodge community that refuses to let him be “just another tragedy.”

We get into the wildland firefighting realities behind the Robertson Draw Fire, including how a distant storm can hide a dangerous downdraft and turn a small fire into an 80-foot firestorm in seconds. A.J. breaks down what happened on the ground, why communication timing matters, and what it means when a severely burned firefighter can’t feel pain and still insists he’s fine. From the ambulance ride to a top Utah burn center, we talk burn recovery, wound care, physical therapy, and the mental and emotional cost that follows.

What stays with me most is the community support: neighbors, first responders, and family turning “bring him home” into a plan with meals, schedules, medical help, and constant presence. We also name a hard truth in first responder culture: the people who save everyone else often struggle to ask for help, and that single sentence can be the beginning of survival.

If you care about firefighter resilience, burn survivor recovery, and how community healing actually works, listen now. Subscribe, share with someone who needs hope, and leave a review with your biggest takeaway.

Dan Steffensen passed away after a courageous battle with cancer on July 26, 2025.

More on Author A.J. Otjen and to purchase the book at https://ajotjen.com/

For responder support or crisis support, here are some resources below.

https://responderstrong.org/

https://www.frsn.org/

https://www.therapyaid.org/first-responders

Thank you for listening!

Transcript

Welcome And Podcast Mission

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Good day, everybody. My name is Nicole Ellis McGregor, and I'm the founder of the Overcomer's Approach podcast. So I meet with different people from different walks of life, different experiences, and different journeys. But the overarching theme is that we can all almost overcome anything that we're presented with in our life, that we are built with resilience and the power of community and the power of storytelling. And so I'm so happy to have the author here, AJ Otten. She is a 2023 Library of Congress award-winning author, and she tells the story of a Montana firefighter, Dan Stephenson, and she offers a gripping first-hand account of survival, courage, and the power of community in the face of the unimaginable tragedy. Our listeners will gain insights on how the howering world of the wildland firefighting, the physical and emotional challenges of burn recovery, and the extraordinary strengths of the human spirit. At jen and Stephenson story is a testament for the unbreakable bonds forged in times of crisis and the profound impact of community support on the path of healing. And I just want to ask for apologies in advance if I did not pronounce your names exactly right. I am working on it. I am so sorry, but I got it right. You got it exactly right. Okay, awesome. AJ, well, I want to talk, uh ask some questions about yourself and also uh um uh uh Mr. Uh Robinson, who's not oh that's the uh who's not here today. It's the per the firefighter that you're telling the story of who's not here today. Thank you, thank you. I wanted to make sure I got that right. Thank you. Um, and I wanted to know what inspired you to write this story, and I I'm so interested too in your life story because I know you live in beautiful Montana, and now I'm inspired to visit. I know Arizona's far, but not that far. So I'm truly inspired by Montana as well, and just the talent that took him in, the firefighting that he did, and just the importance of first responders. And I know a little bit about your history, which is very inspiring. You've done a lot of impactful, powerful work, and I want to acknowledge that as well. Um, tell me what inspired you to write the book.

SPEAKER_01 2:22

Well, Dan asked me to write it. Um really so and and and yes, it's inspirational. Uh, it was daunting to write the book because it's so um I mean, I did 50 interviews um of the people who are involved, and every one of them made you cry. So it was a very emotional, you know, it took two and a half years of a lot of emotion working directly with Dan, talking with Dan, trying to pry him open because Dan's a very tough guy. He does not like to share his, he doesn't share his feelings. And in the beginning, he wanted it to be a fire book. So I'm an academic, I'm a professor. So I started to do a lot of research about fire, firefighters, weather, radio frequencies. Um, and and I realized it wasn't when I started interviewing people, I said, Dan, this is not a fire story, this is a human story. And I've got to give all the human elements in here, which were hard for him because he did not want to talk about his feelings of everything that happened before, during, and after the fire. The the burn recovery was just horrendous. And and then meeting other burn survivors, it became a book about you know burn survivors, um, the psychological elements of it, and the town of Red Lodge. Red Lodge sits uh right on the edge, on the northern edge of Yellowstone National Park. Okay, and and so it's surrounded by fuel, which is trees, forests, and grass. Yeah, and so they are a town that's always on alert, and the fire department is part is the family. I mean, everybody you're either part of the fire department or you're a family member of the fire department, which Dan was. Yeah, so the town itself was a very important part of the story. And him coming home, I mean, because he died, he should have died that night of the fire. In fact, he did die about three times while he was in a coma for weeks. And him coming back to the town is very important. And once I realized how important it was for him to get get well and come home, that's when I knew, you know, that's that was the that was the structure of the book, bring Dan home. That was what was so important.

Red Lodge Brings Dan Home

SPEAKER_00 4:31

Wow, that is so amazing, you know. And I love the fact that you said that, you know, and that's something I could definitely relate to. Um, when people are he's he was a man of few words, and usually the people men are um, and my grandfather was a man of few words, and my husband's the same way, but those men are so powerful, and what they carry in their spirit is so impactful, it's larger than life. And I like the fact that you wanted it, it you said this is not this is a human story, you know, this is really a story of overcoming, and it sounds community, and like you said, for the people that lived in the community, really came together for him, you know, and and and to be really part of someone kind of like a family. How do you think um that helped with his recovery and his sheer survival?

SPEAKER_01 5:19

Yeah, well, in the end, it was essential. Um, yes, first of all, though there is there is fire in this book. So there's a lot, so if you're looking for a fire book, there is a lot of fire in this book. I had to explain because I wanted to know how did this senior firefighter, this well-trained firefighter, get into this position where he was burned so badly? 60% of his body, third degree burns. Um, and you know, and so I had to understand all of that to get him to the point where he was in this fire and burned over. Um, but that the town of Red Lodge called it the summer of hell because there were other tragedies that happened that same summer. And and they all turned out badly, and that's why Dan had to come home. I mean, they had to have one thing happen, and they kept praying, Dan, you've got to come home. We can't take any more sadness.

SPEAKER_00 6:09

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 6:10

So they and they and and he was going stir crazy in Utah. They had flown him to the Utah um uh burn center, which is one of the best in the country, and then he was going crazy because he was in gauze from head to toe for a long time, and then just coming back, you know, just being able to lift to go from a three-pound weight to a five-pound weight in your hands took a long time. And the wound care is awful, and the PT is awful. His family had come from all from different parts of the country to come take care of him, and he had been estranged from his family, and they all showed up for one purpose, and that was to save Dan while he was in the coma. And then when he got out of the coma, they got a schedule of never leaving him alone. Wow, and so but but but for him to come but get out of Utah, the town said, bring him home, we'll we'll finish the job. And they did because they are all they are talented first responders, as you said. They don't that they'd much rather care for somebody than worry about them, and so they got him home and they continued with the wound care, they fed him, they got him to the hospital. You know, there was a doctor that lived next door. His brother came home with him and lived with him and kept the bandage care. So he came home, you know, three months early because the town helped him come home, and that's so it wasn't just you know thoughts and prayers, it was actual doing something to get him home.

SPEAKER_00 7:32

Yeah, so they put that into action, you know, and it sounds like a true act of love to really help with his recovery. I'd go back a little bit. I know that he was, you said there's a lot of fire stories in the book, and so with that, um, you said the town experiences fires, you know, quite frequently. They're they're on alert for fires. And from my understanding, he was trapped, or you know, when he got burned, or he was somewhat trapped. Does Did he ever say like how he or what it what was that or explain more about that? Yes.

The Downdraft That Built A Firestorm

SPEAKER_01 8:05

Well, I you know, the actual burner, the chapters, he doesn't get the the burning happens in chapter six, believe it or not, because I tried to make sure everybody understood who he was and who Red Lodge was, and how and all the people around that were you know listening to the radio, the on the radio as the they as they're fighting this tiny little fire. But and then the weather service was part of I made the weather service a character because you know they are monitoring the weather and there's a helicopter in the air, and they see a storm 30 miles away on the radar, but they don't see it on the horizon because it was a clear blue day, and this is normal for Montana that there'll be a storm miles away, but in front of that storm is something called a downdraft, which could be 60 mile an hour winds that you don't see. Wow, and it's and it could so it's it's in front of the storm, you know, miles miles away, and so that wind was in front of that storm and it created a wall of fire 80 feet high. Wow, and it came running at Dan. And Dan was just putting out this little three feet high fire, and he turned around, and all of a sudden 80 feet wall of fire came right at him and burned right over him.

SPEAKER_00 9:17

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 9:18

He had not he, you know, so he it within seconds he was he was you know he was caught by this wind in front of a storm. Yes, that the weather service was just getting ready to say, send out an email saying, by the way, we see there's possibilities of strong winds in Joliet, you know, coming.

SPEAKER_00 9:35

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 9:36

And they had, but they didn't get the they didn't get the information out to the firefighters on the ground. Wow. That is and then and it blew the hell, it blew the helicopter off the bluff, you know, and hit it was really a uh it was like a 15-second moment of bad.

Survival, Coma, And Burn Reality

SPEAKER_00 9:54

Yeah, wow, I could totally uh wow, that it sounds very, very uh unexpected and impactful and powerful. And it the the resilience of the human spirit, you know, because just to be unexpectedly, I mean, we trust that the you know, uh the all those systems will work perfectly, you know, in line and it'll just come together, you know, but just in minutes, things had changed just that fast. It was a rapid change, and um, and and and just totally being able to uh your survival instincts to kick in, you know, as much as it can in a moment like that is very, very imp powerful. And the fact that he was able to to go to make it through that is just uh so profound.

SPEAKER_01 10:42

Well, at first he didn't know he was burned. You know, he thought he thought, well, okay, I'm fine. I that that was that was bad. It was hot, but I but I'm okay. And then the chief the incident commander and another chief came up and said they looked at him and they were trying to stay calm because his skin was falling off. And he kept saying because when you're when you're when you're burned that badly, the nerves are gone as well, you don't feel any pain. And they're often called the walking dead because their organs are starting to shut down and the infection's setting in, and usually they're dead within a day, but they don't know it because they have pain. And it and if he had breathed in any flames, then that then his you know he his lungs were gonna shut down as well. I mean, the EMT, this is all in the book, but the EMT on the way to the hospital thought that he would die on the way to the hospital, and she was, and it was one of her first experiences of having somebody about to die in the ambulance. And so it was just, you know, he kept saying, I'm fine, just take me home. I'm not I'm not hurt. Right. Let me go, you know, just I can probably get back to the fire, you know. And then even at the hospital, he was wondering why everybody in these blue scrubs behind their masks, their eyes looked like they were gonna cry or cry or tearing up, you know, and he thought, gosh, do all these people think I'm gonna die, you know? And uh so and so then they said the the doctor said, Well, I'm gonna go, I'm I'm going to put I'm gonna put you out so I can intubate you, and then you'll wake up in Utah. And he kind of went, Okay, you know, that is my last are these are these my last words? Right. He actually looked around the room and said, Well, thank you, each and every one of you. Wow, that is he thought, yeah, he thought those might be his last words, yeah.

Probing Questions And Asking For Help

SPEAKER_00 12:27

That is incredible, and the fact that he was able to, you know, have that sense of awareness even in the even in the fight for his life, that like you said, he didn't even realize it at the moment, you know, like you said, because a nervous guy and everything like that. And I think for you to be able to put that in the book burned over, I think speaks to so many listeners that maybe have experience, maybe they are first responders, you know, maybe they uh they live in communities where you know we have to be responsive. We live in communities where people do come together. I think it speaks to something that is so needed. Um, and just the the ability to just overcome whatever you have experience. And I want to go back a little bit, like how did you, because it's you know, he was a man, a few words, sounds like he was a strong man. Um, how did how did you get him to open up about this? What strategies did you use to even pull it out of him? Yes.

SPEAKER_01 13:22

Uh that well, we became very close. We became very close friends. We spent time I we live about an hour from each other, so we would meet halfway at this little cafeteria, halfway between Red Lodge. He lives in Red Lodge, I live in Laurel. Um I live outside of Laurel. I live in the country. This is a country house. Um and so um we'd meet at least once a week at this cafeteria, and I would just ask very probing questions and make him respond. And he sometimes he'd look at me, you know, he'd frow his brow lower, like, how can you ask that question? And I just would not give up. He uh he I even say in the book that he thought that it was like um Cartman in South Park where he was being probed by aliens. And he was he was seeing a psychiatrist at the time, which was you know an admission of weakness in his mind. And he said, you know, you writing this book with you is the same as seeing my shrink. And I'm like, yeah, okay. If I'm asking those same questions, you know, and getting and getting those same kind of answers, then I think that's probably appropriate. You know, and uh so it was it was sort of like that, you know. If I if I if he hadn't been seeing a shrink at the time, maybe it wouldn't have been as easy. Uh or it wasn't easy, but you know, as you know, conducive. But yeah, it was it was it was it was painful. There were a lot of tears, as a matter of fact. Okay. Um, sometimes whenever whenever he uh told me of some of times in the hospital when nurses or anybody went out of their way to care for him, he would tear up. It's like whenever whenever he realized people cared for him, that made him emotional, very emotional. Because one thing about first responders is they don't ask for help. You know, first responders are the people who help, but yeah, never will they ask for help. And for Dan to finally admit that he needed help was a big moment in his life. He had to ask for help to get over this, and that was a big, big moment. And that was part of the book to say, ask for help. You know, that's a key to surviving. And that that's very hard for first responders. Yeah.

Red Lodge’s Summer Of Hell

SPEAKER_00 15:36

Yeah, I totally, totally understand. Uh wow, like you said, you know, it was difficult for him to ask for help, you know, and then you know, him being able to even talk with you. I'm sure he may have not realized it, and I don't want to speak for him, but that that probably was kind of healing and cathartic in a way to get that story out for you to be able to share and support him with that story. Um, and like you said, first responders, and I know they're trying to change the culture and they're implementing some things in different uh systems and different um cities and states for first responders because really realizing uh you have to be healthy to go out there to be the first responder, to be the first person on the scene, to be the person that saves lives. And and to be there for the community is it's huge. It's even much bigger than helping them at a time of crisis. It's um just being able to be present, you know, and and some families are part of that whole experience. And I know that uh first responders can compartmentalize just to survive all that they see and all that they kind of go through. Um, and for him to even say, you know, as the years that he committed as a first responder and a senior first responder, like it's okay to ask for help, just ask for help. I love the fact that you were able to hear that and for him to say that and to experience it. I think that is a major, I think that is that's a big win um in terms of, you know, you know, how he moved forward in life and what that looked like. So, and then that there's the power of storytelling. I think the more people can hear about these type of stories, um, the more that they can really understand and really connect and really support, you know, our first responders and what their needs are and how we could best support them as a community. And and that is just a big win. Um, in terms of the summer of 2021, I want to revisit that a little bit. You were saying people wanted to help them, they wanted them to come back okay. What were some of the things that went on in the summer of 2021? I know you may have that in the book, but it sounds like it might have been a lot. But just like in a brief synopsis, it was it is in the book.

SPEAKER_01 17:48

It's well, it started with uh the Robertson draw fire, which was it came, it came right over the Mount Maurice, which is right on the edge of town, and came right to the edge of town. They almost evacuated Red Lodge because it was such an intense fire, and that fire kept going until November when the first snows came. So they had a fire going all summer long that they were having to maintain and or contain, as they say. Um, and the second thing was a um uh Montana State graduate had, you know, recent graduate was going hiking in the Beartooth Mountains. She was a very skilled hiker, but she got lost. And so the search and rescue team, which is part of the Red Lodge uh firefighter organization, they were out all summer looking for her, and they finally helicopters, everything, and they finally found her remains at the end of summer. And then um another firefighter, beloved firefighter, uh, very talented, uh snowboarder. There's a there's a ski mountain in Red Lodge. He um he was skateboarding and fell and hit his head and ended up on life support for a week or two, and then they finally let him go. And so they had a big funeral on the mountain, a firefighter's funeral on the mountain for him. And so that you know, so that was what that all that was happening in Red Lodge while Dan was in a coma in Utah. And uh it was, you know, it's like they couldn't get any worse, it just could not get any worse. Dan, you know, they they all summer they've been praying for Tate to find Tate, praying for Brian to come off of life support, uh, praying for the fire to go out, and praying for Dan to you know to get out of his coma and survive the burns. And and then everything is finally they said, you know, when Ryan died and when they found Tate's remains, they said, okay, Dan, you have got to come off, come you've got to wake up from your coma now, please. You've got to wake up from your coma. And that's about the time he did was when they found Tate Remains. When they found Tate's remains, that's about when about the time Dan was waking up from his coma.

SPEAKER_00 19:52

Awesome. Wow, I could totally that is I could see why the community really wanted him to come back and come out of a coma and come back. I think hit with so many vicarious losses around the same time within the same year. That really impacts people, families, and communities. And I know to be able to hold them with some type of hope is is big. You know, we gotta we gotta have a win because we're being hit in so many different places and spaces and and being uh having to let go of people you love um is difficult and it could be hard. And so uh I love the fact that he that he came back and persevered and was able to share that story with you.

SPEAKER_01 20:32

What do you think in terms of Well and came back to be a firefighter? He was he really returned to the fire line in 2023.

Returning To The Fire Line

SPEAKER_00 20:38

Yes, he did. Wow, does he speak about that? Like what after he made it through the recovery, what inspired him to come back or what was that driving him? Did he speak to that? Or what did he say?

SPEAKER_01 20:49

He worked so hard to become a firefighter, he worked so hard to become a firefighter, he loved it. You know, it was he wanted to be a firefighter his entire life. He started late in life and he worked so hard to become a very good one, a senior firefighter, nationally, nationally uh ranked firefighter. And so he wanted to get back to it. Um and then in 2020, he in 2024, unfortunately, he came had to come off the line because he started chemo for his he developed small cell lung cancer. And so in 2024, he started chemo, but uh he made it back to the fire line in 2023, which was pretty pretty miraculous. It was two years after the burn. They said it would take three years to get back to normal, but unfortunately he made it back into yeah.

Gratitude, Love, And Takeaways

SPEAKER_00 21:31

Yeah, that is amazing. You know, I love the fact, you know, I'm all about people. Um, and just like I said, I've read some some some information about you from your website, which I think was inspiring, like you know, being able to transition careers to give so much, to work in the corporate world, to do certain things, to to work in academics. I mean, you've had a well lived life and give given back in so many different ways. And that is a real honor. And you show us that it it can definitely be done, and being able to take people like him and tell Their story to impact our listeners and for people, I definitely think they should purchase the book. I think there's so many nuggets of wisdom in the terms of resilience community, starting late in life and living your dream and trying so hard and finally getting to this place that you want to be. And not only that, but to recover and to come back and to be uh renowned for the work that you do. And now as he walks this journey of cancer and his transition, that his legacy and his story and you supporting that still can live on, still can inspire other people, no matter where they are in life, whether they are first responders, you know, whatever their um experiences or journeys are, he's actually can, you know, he's a living legacy right now. But even when we like we're all gonna transition at some point, but to leave a legacy of that richness and that story, it can be very empowering for our listeners and other people. What do you hope for uh for people to get, you know, if they purchase the book, which you encourage, we encourage people to do that, uh, to purchase a book burned over. What do you want listeners to take away from the the book that you wrote and the stories that you put in there about Dan? Yes.

SPEAKER_01 23:10

Well, Dan wanted this book written to thank all the people that helped him that brought him back to life, basically. There are so many doctors, first responders, um, burn survivors, firefighters that to thank a thousand good people stepped up to greatness. But the thing is they do they do this every day, and they you know, and they do these so many people that they you know bring back to life. They they bring back to a normal life. You know, most amputees, most burn survivors have amputees, or many do. And these were the people who inspired Dan to get out get out of bed and get and get to work and and and be a firefighter again. You know and they have a saying, um, between the past and the present is acceptance, and it does get better. So part of what he wanted to thank all the people that made him that inspired him and recognize all these people that do this work every day and never get recognized. So that's mainly what we were trying to do.

SPEAKER_00 24:09

Yeah. I really support that message 1,000 times over. Like I said, because I work in a space of public safety and just aware of what some of our firefighters do and first responders do, and just to honor them and to give them a huge thank you. And the physical, mental, and emotional work that goes into that is much bigger than anyone could even imagine. Um, and so I want to say thank you too as well, you know, and thank you to the people that helped Dan and his journey because I really feel like even if we're not connected in the same city or town, that we could really replicate this story um wherever we are in the country to really support our first responders and the ability to overcome and be resilient, and for him to show us that it's never too late to live your dreams, it's never too late to start whatever you want to do and just to continue to push forward. Um, AJ, as you wrote this story, and this is a question for you, um, what gives you hope? I know you you you've done so much and accomplished so much, but what keeps you going in terms of doing the work that you do? What gives you hope?

SPEAKER_01 25:20

Um you know, other writers have said, or other people wanting to become a writer have said, what's the key? And I and I think the key is falling in love with the subject matter. Um and and that and then you become so you know involved in the story that you feel the you feel the pay you feel the pain as well as the love. So it's the love in the story that gives me hope. Trying to capture that and put it on the page. There was so much love in this story, and I felt like I had really I had to really raise my skills to capture it and get it on the page. I did I did my very best, you know. I'm like I'm an academic writer or uh a researcher, and uh to be a narrative nonfiction writer all of a sudden for this novel was daunting, and but it was so important to try to get this right for the community, for Dan and his family. You know, I did my very best. And uh so and we wanted to get it done, and so I'm hoping that I did capture as much love as I could. But what I think I learned is be open to love. Yeah, that's the main thing.

Where To Buy Burned Over

SPEAKER_00 26:30

I love that. You know, what gives you hope is love and be open to love. And like you said, when you wrote the book, you know, really fall in love with falling in love with the subject matter, you know, and I would definitely agree to that as well. Um, you know, being open to it and just and and and falling in love with it and just let it encompass you. And like you said, you know, you you've done academics and research. This was a little stretch for you, but I think the stretch was definitely worth it, you know. Uh, and I and from what I could see, you interpret the story. Well, I look forward to reading the book as well myself. So if people want to purchase the book, what web linker can they go to purchase the book Burned Over?

SPEAKER_01 27:10

Well, it's uh it's available in Kindle and Audible and in print, and all three are available on Amazon. Um well, you live in Arizona in in the West, it's available in many local retail stores. So you should probably check there first to support your local retail stores. But otherwise, it's available um on Amazon uh in all three Kindle, Audible, and print. And otherwise, my website is ajotgen.com.

SPEAKER_00 27:37

Okay. Well, thank you. I will make sure I have that in the narrative when I complete and edit the podcast. But I so greatly appreciate you sharing the story uh of Dan and his experience, and we send out many blessings and good energy to him and his journey as well. Thank you. Um and I greatly appreciate this time that you had with us today. Thank you, AJ. I greatly appreciate you.

SPEAKER_01 28:00

Thank you.