The Hidden Wounds Men Carry: Breaking Free from Trauma, Shame & Survival Mode

Disclaimer: This episode is intended for educational and informational purposes only and reflects the personal experiences and opinions of the guest. The discussion of psychedelic-assisted therapy, including MDMA-assisted therapy, is not an endorsement or recommendation to use these substances.

The legal status and availability of psychedelic-assisted therapies vary by country, state, and jurisdiction. Listeners are responsible for understanding the laws where they live. If you are considering any mental health treatment, please consult a qualified, licensed healthcare professional to determine what is appropriate for your individual circumstances.

The Overcomers Approach Podcast does not provide medical, legal, or mental health advice. If you are experiencing a mental health crisis, please seek immediate assistance from a licensed mental health professional or call or text 988 the national crisis line for crisis support or suicide prevention. 

Your life can look “successful” on paper and still feel unbearable on the inside. Steve Saporn knows that gap firsthand. He’s a former hedge fund manager and the host of the Neuro's Journey Podcast, and he joins us to talk plainly about childhood trauma, addiction, shame, and the moment he realized his nervous system was running the show.

We dig into men’s mental health and masculinity in a way that actually helps families. Steve shares why a well-run men’s group can be a game-changer, how vulnerability builds trust faster than any tough persona, and what it felt like to finally say the quiet belief underneath everything: “Deep down inside, I feel like a bad man.” From there, we talk about repairing relationships, owning your mistakes, and learning to regulate instead of leaking pain onto the people you love.

We also get practical about trauma recovery tools and neuroscience-based healing."Steve shares his personal experience with psychedelic-assisted therapy, including MDMA-assisted therapy for trauma where legally available, and discusses the importance of professional guidance and integration following treatment.". We discuss neurofeedback as a way to treat trauma like an injury you can measure and train, plus daily practices like breathwork, meditation, and journaling that support nervous system regulation. We close with identity-based habit change, small wins, and how to stop defining yourself by your past.

If you’ve been stuck in survival mode, listen through and pick one next step you can take this week.

Feel free to leave a review, if you were impacted.

More or Steve at https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-neuros-journey/id1854154199 and https://theneurosjourney.com/

Thank you for listening!

Transcript

Resilience, Trauma, And The Nervous System

SPEAKER_00 0:02

Welcome back to the Overcomer's Approach Podcast, where I share different stories of resilience, healing, and transformation to inspire you on your own journey of overcoming. Today's guest is Steve Saporn, host of the Neural Journeys Podcast, and a passionate advocate for trauma recovery and personal transformation. Steve's story is one of remarkable resilience, a former hedge fund manager who battled addiction and survived childhood abuse, domestic violence, and gun violence. He has courageously rebuilt his life through neuroscience-based healing and deep inner work. Today, Steve uses both his lived experience, evidence-based approaches to help others understand how trauma shapes our lives and how healing can help us rewrite our stories. Steve, thank you to the overcomers coming on the overcomers approach today. Feel free, I'm just so happy to have you here. I'm not sure if I missed anything in an introduction. Feel free to interject anything that I may have missed, but just going to be an organic conversation today.

SPEAKER_01 1:03

Great. Well, thank you so much for having me, Nicole. I really appreciate it. And, you know, like any introduction, that's a part of the story. Certainly, um, you know, trauma is a big part of my experience. And really, I think the realization that I had at some point was that my nervous system was running my life. And really, for most of my life, I did not even have any idea that that was going on. And at some point I made the choice, mostly because, you know, they these things, as you know, they're not just difficult for us who've had these experiences, but they leak out onto the people that we love. That's true and you know, and I think, you know, what's what's out there in the world right now is a version of masculinity that you often see, not all of it, yeah, that um is kind of mean and is is not what I think most men are really about. Yeah. And so like I started to orient, and what was what was a real blessing to me was to say, like, I'm gonna connect my my masculinity to handling my business. And because those things were leaking out onto my partners and my kids, and and so um, and I have had uh, you know, a big experience with it, and I feel blessed um that I really have, I believe, regulated the nervous system down to a pretty normal state. And um it's not something I ever felt, you know, you have these experiences, and you might not feel worthy of that. You might feel that you're something wrong with you or broken, and that's why I quit a career in finance to just tell people you know what, you you just had an injury, you can heal this injury, there's nothing wrong with you. Um, and so thank you for giving me the opportunity

Healthy Masculinity Without The Spillover

SPEAKER_01 2:55

to bend your ear a little bit to fully appreciate it.

SPEAKER_00 2:58

No problem. I you touched a bit on I have two adult sons, um, and me and my husband have a blended family of six children. And so I I know when you spoke, I touched a bit on, you know, men's masculinity and men's mental health. I think that's something that I have conversations with with the men in my life, my husband and my two sons. And you know, one of my sons was in the military, he's a veteran, and um he does all the masculine things, workout, but then really being open to being vulnerable. And he uh lost his father, my late husband, to cancer. So he lost him when he was 10. So that caused some trauma in his life. And that still brings, especially during the anniversary of his death, it brings up, you know, thoughts and feelings and vulnerabilities. And and um how do you think men could, you know, like you said, tap into their masculinity to do these great things without it leaking out in toxic ways to impact their families in a more positive way? What what's your thought on that? I mean, I love the men in my life and I want to be able to support them, but I, you know, I I want to be able to create a space for them or direct them to the right spaces to have those conversations. How did you even? I know you said you regulated your nervous system. Uh, you realized that you needed to transition. What recommendations do you give other people or other men who who are in that space? They want to be vulnerable, but they don't feel comfortable. There's a fear there.

SPEAKER_01 4:25

Well, thanks for the question. The number one thing that got me going on this was a men's group. Awesome. And and I'm not, you know, I wasn't traditionally a joiner type or that kind of thing, but I was going through a divorce and it was really dramatic and messy. And um, I saw a flyer, and I think one of the first times that I just trusted my intuition, I just did it. And that men's group has been, you know, we were a year with a facilitator. So a skilled facilitator was very helpful. Uh, but it will be in our 10-year anniversary this August. I was just with those guys um last night. And I would say, you know, for me, um, I learned a different way of masculinity, a different way to interact with men. I mean, I had a lot of like boys. I mean, I was like pretty crazy young kid, and we, you know, told each other we loved each other, but it was mostly through insults and this and this kind of thing. And um, over time, I really learned that like um being vulnerable actually got me the things that I was trying to get by not being vulnerable. That's I have this tendency to do everything exactly opposite in

Vulnerability, Shame, And The “Bad Man”

SPEAKER_01 5:40

my life. But you know, and and and we did have a very skilled facilitator who would ask you questions and bring out things. And he asked me um one day, you know, he he has you say things out loud. He's like, I want you to say deep down inside that I feel like a bad man. Right. And and when he did that, I just cried and cried and cried. And um, you know, I'd had a history of sexual abuse in my childhood, yeah, and I don't know that guy's name, but as a little kid, what I what I named him was the bad man. Okay, the bad man's hurting me, the bad man's doing this. And I never really knew that that was inside of me that I felt that way. And what was interesting, and the way I'm telling you about it, is you know, when he taps into something so primal in you, you just I just burst into tears. I wasn't really in control of it. And it was not uh thing that I'd done in front of men or 10 guys. And what the the response that I got was man, this is the first time I'm really feeling you. Like I got so many good responses, and then they're all nice guys, they kept telling me what a good man I am and all this kind of stuff over time. But I really started to notice that you know, questioning the how I was operating, right? Like I was hiding, I was basically putting out for people a version of me that I thought was safe and I thought they wanted. And I think people are smart, they deep down inside know when you're fronting. That's right. And then they don't really trust you, and you're not really getting all of them. And so it's been a slow process over 10 years, but as far as a first step in this culture, what we're lacking, I think men's groups are an incredible thing. That's one thing that I'm gonna be starting to offer with my men's group leaders online groups this is this fall. There are national or organizations. Honestly, I think if you just kind of tell yourself, I'm looking for a men's group and be aware, it things just pop up, right? The universe gifts, so you'll hear somebody talking about it or whatever. But you can definitely reach out to me. I have resources on them. And I just think they are um a transformational way for men to re-experience what it's like to be with men with a different set of values, saying, like, like what we value here is honesty, what we value here is truth, what we value here is like taking care of our business and not fucking shit up, you know, like we are we're you know, and hold you accountable, but love you in a way that um, you know, I don't think a lot of men have gotten, you know, and even if they have, we all want it. And it's been such a blessing in my life. So that was really the start and and the beginning of so many different things to help heal trauma.

SPEAKER_00 8:39

Awesome. Thank you for that information. You know, I greatly appreciate it. Like you said, just starting with the men's group. Like you said, a place of like-minded people who want some realness and authenticity. Like you said, the minute you fake something, they're not gonna trust you, you know, your wall's up and you're not allowing that those authentic emotions and realness to even share in that experience. Other people, I'm sure, experience what you experienced, but they've probably never been in a safe place to be vulnerable, to even say that they experienced, you know, some type of trauma or sexual abuse or or or something in their life that caused a very traumatic event. So um, thank you for that. I think that's so needed and it's so appreciated. Um, and I want people to live as freely and as honestly as they can. I feel like the more we could do that, the more we we can connect and have healthier families and environments and communities and all that. So thank you. I

The Moment Surviving Was Not Enough

SPEAKER_00 9:30

so appreciate that. It sounds like uh, can you take us back to a moment where you realize that surviving was not enough and you needed to truly heal?

SPEAKER_01 9:40

You know, yeah, you know, I've had, I I I was um fortunate that, you know, I had some entrepreneurial success when I was younger, and I didn't really even know what trauma was until about five years ago. And then I started oriented around healing it. And so I've done a lot of different things from flying to the Naval Academy to getting a stelic ganglion block in my neck to psychedelic therapies and all these kinds of different things. And I would say, um, you know, probably the most important turning point where my behavior started to switch was like in the in the middle of a mosh pit at a red hot chili peppers concert. And I had done a small amount of of psychedelic mushrooms, not some big therapeutic dose, but I really got a download in my life, and it was fun. I mean, all these people are jumping around crazy. I'm like crying, you know, like tears of joy. But but but the messaging that I got was you know, you've been operating like the world is out to get you your whole life. And you know, my lived experience when I was a kid is there were people out to get me, honestly. Like, but it it sort of just reframed it and it said, all those things as experiences that you think are so bad, they actually happened for your growth. And and they didn't happen to you, they happened for you. And and really what was interesting is I think I was listening to my intuition for one of the first times, and it was saying, like, listen to the differences in the voices in your head, like the ones you listen to are scared, and they yell at you and they're telling you to do something, and listen to what's happening now. Yeah, I'm not yelling at you, I'm not scared, I'm just laying out this thing. And if you listen to this voice, you know, you'll have more success in life. And I was fortunate to get COVID during that thing. And so I was in in uh in bed for two weeks, and with psychedelics, um they really do, they they encourage change because I think really what it is is you get um you get your own inner wisdom with like the fireworks of a movie or something about it, you know, like all the you know, and so you believe it. And but what what you have to do is that state disappears. You have to start acting on it. Yeah, and so I got COVID and I was in bed and I started journaling, and I was just like, when my my inclination is something will be good for me, I'm just gonna do it. I'm not gonna research it, I'm not gonna do, you know, I'm just gonna do it. And I mean, since that time, that'll be four years ago. I haven't had a drink since that day, and I was a heavy, uh, heavy alcoholic and drinker. I haven't used any street drugs, I've lost 50 pounds, I've gotten a new, I mean, everything has changed. Wow. And and you know, and I don't I don't think it's like psychedelics are a tool in your toolbox. I mean, I did the things, like I went to yoga hundreds of times, I went to the places, you know, but it gave me an inclination that I was on the right path in a voice that was very believable.

SPEAKER_00 13:03

Yes. I like I like that. Uh for two things you that stood out to me is uh the the red hot chili peppers. Um I I love I believe like you music is universal. They're those are they're one of my favorite groups, legendary. Um, and I do believe in musical experiences and concerts and things like that. Real spiritual things can happen. I've seen it. And also, like you said, you had that download at that moment and you're open to it. Like you didn't shut the voice off. You're like, I'm gonna receive this. And I love the fact that you didn't shut that down and not not not everybody's out to get you. Like there are good things that could definitely happen. And I truly believe that. I believe that we can manifest that in our actions, but we got to get regulated

Psychedelics, MDMA, And Real Integration

SPEAKER_00 13:45

and open to what we're open, you know, what we're open to receiving. So I love that. Tell me a little bit about psychedelics. You know, I've heard about it. One of my sons have talked about it um as well. I know they have evidence-based research in psychedelics. How did you approach that or how did it help you? Yes.

SPEAKER_01 14:04

Yeah, so um I happen to be blessed with a partner who's one of the leading minds in psychedelics in the United States. And so I've learned a lot from from her. She works in getting them into the medical system. But um, you know, they are, if you listen to my podcast, like a there'll be an episode that'll come out in a couple of weeks. Okay. Um, and uh prominent psychiatrist who'd worked all these years in it. And at the end of the day, like he would tell you, like, when you get on the path of antidepressants and this and that, at the end of the day, they have like a 12% um success rate, and their version of success is really just sort of numbed out symptoms. I mean, it's not really. And when you look at psychedelic treatments, it's more like 60 some per, it's like 500% better. And so there's a variety of different psychedelics. You need to know, you need to be involved with the right people and those kinds of things. And that's something anybody listening can reach out to me. I can help people with that. But you know, for instance, like with my sexual abuse, MDMA, which is called ecstasy, you know, that's that's not like something where you see visions and stuff, it's mostly like love feelings, right? But what it's very good for that kind of trauma because it allows you to engage with it without being so worked up, right? And you know, part of the experience of that was I needed to find forgiveness and actual love for the man that abused me. And I know that sounds hard to hear, but but like I called it am I allowed to curse on this podcast?

SPEAKER_02 15:51

Oh, you're allowed to curse.

SPEAKER_01 15:52

Okay, well, I call it fuck you and I love you.

SPEAKER_02 15:55

Okay, I like that.

SPEAKER_01 15:57

You know, I I I mean what he did was reprehensible. I was a little boy, but you know, on the other hand, I could see like all the bad choices I made as someone who was traumatized, and I didn't hurt other people, but I was a crackhead for a long time. You know, I'd hurt myself, and I could see, all right, this is a cycle, and I'm gonna like see some humanity and I'm gonna forgive. But like that wasn't the whole process. Then I did hypnosis to kind of get him out of my psyche, right? And so what I have noticed with psychedelics is that um, you know, you're not doing them all the time. You might do it like once a year. There, there's there's ceremonial ways of doing it with indigenous people, there's therapeutic ways. But in general, what has happened is what I needed in that moment at my life to have the confidence of the to say this is the direction I'm going. And I don't attribute it to the medicine, I attribute it to love, you know, taking down the barriers to my own wisdom. Yeah. All the things that what my parents said or this said, and all that. And what I firmly believe is when you are free is when you trust your own inner voice. Yeah. You talk to yourself and your own God, and that's what you need. And you don't need anyone else to tell you how how to be. And psychedelics can encourage those states. I mean, they're very proven, it's an evidence-based thing. I mean, you can research. Um, I know you said your son was a veteran. Um there's something called Ibegain. You can look up a documentary called In Waves and War. It's on Netflix. Um, but there's Stanford study of, you know, it's not like Army Rangers and Navy SEALs, the like highest of the high. Um incredible transformations of their lives. And my partner went went down and did it, and she did it at the same clinics, and there were veterans there that were participating that week, and I was blessed to go into a gratitude circle. And one of the guys said that he was gonna commit suicide if this didn't work out, and he was so bubbly and happy and holding my partner's hand in the circle and all that. And she said, you know, when he came in here, he was so withdrawn, he was just looking down, not saying anything. So I just think like I know for me personally, I don't know if I could have gotten out of my cycle without being blasted out of it. Right. Like, I also don't think like you could do it too much and all that. Like, I also do stuff every day. Like, I this is my what I consider what it is to be a man, and then I'm gonna take care of my business by meditating, breath, you know, whatever it is. But psychedelics really just helped me get out of a very difficult circumstance that my brain adapted to a lot of fear when I was a kid. I mean, it wasn't just sexual abuse. I witnessed a mass murder, I lived in domestic violence. You know, it was just like a lot was going on for a five and six-year-old kid, and I learned that, you know, the life is dangerous and scary, and men will hurt you. That's what I learned. And so, you know, over time, and that's why I'm so committed. Like, I I don't have, I don't want to hear all this stuff about all these men hurting people. I think that we can heal. And I think that like if we get enough of us that do our own work that we can change the culture and say, like, hey, that's not acceptable. That's like, hey, I love you, brother, and you can, you know, and I, you know, you can be forgiven for anything, but you gotta stop. Yeah, you gotta do some shit to like heal. And I think that there's an opportunity to have that happen. Um, if enough guys just decide, and and you know, to your point, it takes courage, yeah, and it takes love, like self-love. You know, and I think the love enough to say, if I go inside and I go inward, well, I was I could not meditate, I could not sit still because I was so scared, you know. I was scared, I think, that what I was finding there was wrong. Right, you know, and as I and so, you know, you have to be at like some point, like, I'm gonna give this a shot, you know, and and have enough love and courage to do that. And it's a self-reinforcing thing, and your people will support you. That's my experience. Once you say, like, look, this is my issue. I'm sorry I yelled at you last night, right? Because I got out of control. Yeah, but I I understand like what's happening and I'm working on it, and I'm sorry this morning, like your people will forgive you as long as they know that you're working on it.

SPEAKER_00 20:56

That's right. That's right. I love I love the fact that you said that. A couple of things to like, you know, F them and love them. I love that concept because I had my own trauma in life, and the person that caused me the most trauma, we might have trauma bonded and that my life. Um, they they they stayed in my life, but they were physically no more in there. But I allowed that trauma to like attach me and impact everything about me for like 10 years. And the minute I released that and loved that person, it was like after you do, you know, then the doors begin to open. Like I had a new freedom, a new breath of air, a new clarity, a new gratitude. So I love the fact that you said that because love is gonna, it's gonna make that movement. And then I love the fact that I believe, um, and I'm not a licensed provider, I'm a master's level educated person in human services, but you know, and I have some lived experience. But what I know about the systems that we're currently functioning in, they're not working. And so we have to take a look at evidence based research, whether it's in psychedelics or other uh modalities. And consider those as options, especially for people where they're just taking certain medications and it's just not numbing the system. It's numbing the issue, but no internal work was really happening. So I love the fact that you spoke to that. I find that some people, I have two questions. How did you transition from being a hedge fund manager to the space that you're now? Like what did that look like? Because that's a

Neurofeedback And Treating Trauma Like Injury

SPEAKER_00 22:30

shift.

SPEAKER_01 22:30

Yeah, yeah, it's quite a shift. Um, and I want to just go back just in one thing because psychedelics is one thing and they have their own things. Yes. Um, I would just give one other thing completely on the other side, it's called neurofeedback. Yes. And so what was incredible with that for me is one, I did not have to talk about anything. They they took a scan of my brain and they could see that the brainwave function was impacted by my trauma. And then they said, All right, what we're gonna do is we're gonna do like 10 sessions, we're gonna rescan your brain and we're gonna move your brain towards health. And a couple things. One, I mean, I my brain shifted and my life shifted during that time. And I think seeing it in a medical way, like this felt more like an appointment when I did, you know, I tore my knee up than it did a mental health thing. It just made it less shame, right? I was like, oh, this is an injury. So, so um, evidence, so all of these things just you know, you got to be curious and go out there and find things. And you know, and again, on my podcast, we talk about these things a lot. Um specifically, what what happened with me was, you know, I said I've been working on this for about five years, and four years ago I had this experience of the like the change. Yes, and that, you know, what was happening is outwardly, if you knew me, you would be like, all right, Steve's things are changing, right? Steve's losing a ton of weight, he's not a drunk, he's uh you know, all this kind of thing. Um internally, even though I wasn't using drugs and alcohol to do it, I felt a similar dynamic, which when I was a drug addict, basically what it was like I wasn't intending to be a drug addict at 10 a.m., right? It was by like 9 p.m. You know, because I would just have this feeling and it would just come up, and you know, and it would be at some point I would give into it because it was just too uncomfortable. And with all the work and stuff, like that general dynamic had been had had still been happening. Um, and I would, you know, like do yoga instead of crack or whatever, but but I still was feeling it, you know, I was feeling this discomfort. And literally, like after all this work and during the time that I was doing neurofeedback, um, like it just felt like that dynamic shifted, and my nervous system went from um one that still had me telling myself that there was something wrong with me to like, oh, this is functioning normally. Like, yeah, if I if somebody scares me, like my nervous system freaks out, but it also regulates, right? You know, and it was a really noticeable shift. It just felt like one morning almost, I was like, Well, there's something different. Yeah, and so really, and the beautiful thing about this is so what I thought my life was gonna be was I hopefully heal my trauma sensations, and I would just be Steve without those sensations. And what has happened is everything has shifted. And literally, from maybe within a couple weeks of having this feeling of like, okay, I no longer feel like a damaged unit, like that that was wrong from birth, kind of vibe that you know. Um, I just said, you know what? Like, I feel like there's probably millions of people out there that have had this experience. And I had a lot of shame and a lot of bad feelings about myself, but never about the sexual abuse. I mean, I just sort of thought, you know, that's some creepy old man. I didn't do it to anything, you know, you know. Um, and so I knew I had known from talking to some people individually about it that they just told me it was helpful to hear that, you know, somebody. And look, I had the Instagram lifestyle before there was the gram. I mean, I was making money and I had apartments and an actor's girlfriend, all this kind of stuff, and it was very empty. Yes. And and what I have found is just more of that um spirituality has been able to come into my life in a way that uh it just couldn't really fit with a superactive nervous system.

SPEAKER_03 26:44

Right.

SPEAKER_01 26:45

And what and as I get more deep into that, it's very common, you hear it all the time, is people want to serve, right? And so, and so what I have, I mean, I'm not I don't have a master's degree in anything, uh, but I have my experience, you know, and and I've done, you know, and I've been fortunate enough to like do a lot of things. And in my trading career, basically what I did was create a system, right? Like, okay, there's tons of data. Yes, here's here's eight pieces of data that I think are important and I'm gonna let guide me. And so, really, what I think that I offer people who've had trauma that's different is for me, I would get so excited, like breath work, oh, I'm gonna do that, and it's gonna cure me, or meditation's gonna cure me, or this or that. And I never really knew the overall thing that I was dealing with. And to me, it's more like um understand how you got here, like how your brain shifted. It's cultural too with men, right? We're told not to feel, we're told, oh, and there's all kinds of things that are making it more difficult for us. Um basically, in the layman's terms, the way that I understand it is everything that starts to happen when we become uncool, like you're depressed or over, you know, is we get narrower, right? You get narrow in your thoughts, thought loop. Keep saying the thing, you're replaying the thing over and over, or this or that, and you start to learn ways to kind of expand your awareness and and which tools are gonna work in that situation because you've been learning about yourself a lot, and your nervous system is gonna be different than mine. That's why it's like I'm not gonna tell you. I mean, I keep mentioning breath work, it is incredible and it's very helpful to shift your state. Yeah, um, but it might not be the thing for everything, and there's different kinds. Sometimes you're like kind of depressed, you need to be amped up, right? Other times you need to be calmed down.

SPEAKER_03 28:45

That's right.

SPEAKER_01 28:46

So, so um, you know, to me, what it is is make a choice that like this is important to me, and not just for me, but for the people that I love, and then learn about like you know, the system, the tools, and start to identify as somebody that says, look, I have inherent value, and I'm gonna operate from that place of value, and I'm gonna make mistakes, and when I do, I'm gonna say sorry for them. That's right, and and I'm gonna be forgiven when that happens. And just life, you know, it's interesting because I just had a lot of the benefits of the more shallow, yeah, um, you know, acquisitive American dream lifestyle. And I was on the verge of killing myself.

SPEAKER_03 29:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:40

And now I don't have all that, and I have a different life, you know, and and I feel um like so much more blessed and whole. And so like I just want that for people, and there's no magic to it. We all have it in us, yeah. And and when you start to learn, it's like, okay, my it's probably really smart what your brain did, right? Like, I operate, of course, my my wisdom was telling me you've operated like the world was out to get you. Well, like, look, when I went into my neighborhood, a man was hurting me. When I walked on the street, I was seeing people kill each other. When I went in my house, I was seeing my dad die. I mean, so it was pretty reasonable that my brain would develop and say the world is dangerous, right? Like that wasn't that wasn't, you know, stupid or bad. It just didn't serve me anymore. And I think like this is our spiritual path is to overcome our thing. Like, you have your stuff, Nicole, you gotta do your thing, and I gotta do my thing. And then when you do it, you have confidence in a way that's different because you know you overcome something fearful for yourself. Yeah, and and I believe strongly that I talk to so many people who've had so much more difficult lives than mine, who've made incredible changes and strides. It's out there for everybody. It can be done. And and I also want to say no matter where you're at, no matter if you just put down the crack pipe, there's nothing wrong with you. That's right. No, there's nothing wrong with what's happening right now, you know. It's just like at some point in this moment, hopefully, you can start to choose to be different. Forgive yourself for your past, be good now. You know, and and you're it's gonna be fits and starts. It's not gonna be easy at first, but but if you can sort of say, like, I'm on this hero's journey, you know, I'm out there slaying these dragons right now, and I'm fucking scared. Yeah, I don't know what to do, and I don't know how to do it, but I know I'm I'm pointing myself in the direction of something good. Yes, you know, and you can change. I firmly believe that.

SPEAKER_00 31:51

Uh I believe that as well. And I I just want to thank you. I have one last question before we close out, and I'll give you an opportunity to give your podcast and your website if anyone wants to reach out to you. Um, my you mentioned something. I I think our identities could get tied to our life experiences and our past. Sometimes when people make that transition, it's hard to let that go. Like it's hard to either forgive yourself or you're tied to that experience. Like you said, you've seen a lot, you know, abuse in the neighborhood, in the house. Like it makes you fearful, like you're just kind of like this victim and the world is bad. So if some people are doing the work and they're using their tools, I love the fact that you said it's individualized. You have your work, I have my work. Certain tools may, I may have to put out a different tool for my for my tool chest that day, depending upon how I feel on that day. And I love the fact that you said that because it is really individualized. And I like the fact that you, you know, overcome and your walk on this journey and having such a more meaningful life. You know, I think some people get caught up in the highlights of what people see in social media, but there's so much behind a lot of that that's not real. And so I love the fact that you spoke transparently about that. What was the step that you did like to not be tied to that identity from the past or things you've done? Sometimes it's a hard thing for people to either forgive themselves

Identity Shifts, Small Wins, And Habits

SPEAKER_00 33:10

or kind of get over. And it might have been the answers that we talked about already, but if they're like just starting out, what would you recommend?

SPEAKER_01 33:17

Well, and and so one thing I want to say is like, look, just because I'm, I mean, I'm talking, man, my life is better and all that, like I still have these depressions. I mean, I have these things. I just am able to pull myself out of them. So um, but I think that as part of like, I think it's really important to learn about the system. And and one of the things, one of the best ways to change behavior is to change your identity. That's right. So, like they, you know, like atomic habits, that that book is really famous for, you know, they there's an example in it where it says, like, I'm I'm quitting smoking if I say that, versus I'm not a smoker. That's right. You know, and the people who say I'm not a smoker, um, you know, like they are they succeed more. And so there's a balance of um, you know, you're obviously what you're doing, you like you might be doing things that are counter to that identity, right? So you have to phrase it in in a certain way, like, like so, like let's say I was an active drug addict. I mean, I wouldn't be saying like I'm not a drug addict, because that's sort of like, you know, but I would be saying, like, I'm someone who really values a healthy life. That's right. You know, and then, you know, and you kind of start to repeat that and and over and over, and then eventually one day, like you might be like, Oh, does someone who values a healthy life, is he picking up the pipe, you know? Like, no, I'm gonna put down. That's and and you can let yourself sort of um, you know, and understand what you're doing. When I the first time I quit drinking before the the psychedelics, my men's group leader, he told me to do this thing. He's like, Don't stop drinking. But I want you to just before you pick up the glass of wine or whatever, just kind of tap in for a second and see like, like, why am I doing it? Yes. And so, like, what I really realized is I didn't like appetizers nearly as much as I thought I did. I was always going out for appetizers. You know, but what was happening is I was I was quelling that sensation that was rising each day. And and and his advice would be like, look, just say like I'm numbing out, that's fine, you know, but at least know what what you're doing. And over time, you know, and this is a period of years. I mean, I quit, stopped, and start, but eventually I quit forever. Yeah. Is is I just learned that like I wasn't drinking, I wasn't doing those drugs for fun and adventure. I was doing them to deal with my nervous system. And then slowly I learned how to make my nervous system a little better. And then eventually it just sort of shifted, and I didn't need those things. Yes. And and so it's, you know, you don't have you're not gonna be perfect overnight. If you've had some uh heavy life, like don't expect yourself to be. And I think that's the negative that I don't like about like the single, you know, like meditate. Yes, meditation is awesome. Yes, it's highly unlikely you start meditating this month, and two months from now all your problems are solved. Let's not happen, you know. Like, I mean, it's years of impacting yourself. But if you start doing a lot of things and you just start giving yourself credit for little wins, you know, like I I I met, you know, I have a close friend of mine who she was she was, I mean, she's been alcoholic, bulimic, all these things. But she told me she's like, you know, this is the first year in 40 years that I haven't been bulimic. Wow. And right after that, she's just running herself down for that. She still drinks and this and that. Can you give yourself a little credit here? Like, yeah, your whole life isn't perfect. Right. You have made dramatic shifts in a positive direction. Like, I mean, like, let's let's celebrate that. So I think it's like learn a little bit about these things, yeah, and and start to tell yourself in ways that you are who you want to be. That's right. And then start, you know, and the way your brain works is it looks for evidence to ratify what you think, right? So if you start to think you're a healthy person, then maybe you've eaten a whole bag of Doritos, but you had a banana after, and you're like, look, I ate a banana. You know, that, you know, so I I just think it's just a process to engage with and decide that you're worthy of it.

SPEAKER_00 37:46

That's right. Because, you know, we are worthy. And and I love the fact that you said that. Um, and I love the fact that you said, just celebrate the small wins, celebrate the small wins. They definitely add up. I and there's power in words and kind of how we train our brain to think a certain way. And like you said, it may not change in two months, you know, but just small like practices, you know, habits, you know, um, and just being, you know, having that self-awareness, you know, I think is really important, you know, like being just kind of aware of where you're at, but I don't think that could really happen until you really you're open up and you're a little bit more vulnerable. So I love the fact that you shared um your your story, Steve. It was awesome. You know, I think in this last 30, 35, 36 minutes, you gave great nuggets of information that can really empower people and allow people to forgive themselves and really flourish in their callings and what they want to do, how they define it. Because I think some people get caught up in what someone else is doing or what someone else defines for them as success. We define it ourselves. And I love the fact that you know you've kind of paid this way and

Finding Steve Online And Final Takeaways

SPEAKER_00 38:55

you're just being another tool, another avenue for people. If people want to reach out to you to have you speak, or if they want to listen to your podcast, please share your podcast information with me and um also your web link, and I'll make sure that's in the narrative of my podcast.

SPEAKER_01 39:10

Okay, cool. I will give it to you. It's called The Neuros Journey, and it's uh in all the podcast places, and I'm on Instagram and YouTube. If you want to see my pretty face, you can watch it on YouTube. Um, and I have a website of the same name. And um, you know, I'm I you can just reach out to me. Like I'm happy to offer what I can. And on the podcast, you know, it's just different kinds of people from um science researchers to people the coaches to this and that, whatever I think might be another helpful tool or inspirational story um is on there. And I've gotten a really a lot of good feedback on it. So I very much appreciate you putting it out there and for having me on. Thank you so much. I feel like this was such a blessing, Nicole.

SPEAKER_00 39:57

It has been for me as well. Thank you again. I honor the space and time that we shared this today, and thank you very much, Steve.

SPEAKER_01 40:04

Bye bye.

SPEAKER_00 40:05

Bye bye.