Students of Standards

Introducing students to ASTM standards can create a nexus of opportunity, engagement, and robust standards development. Learn how student involvement is shaping the next generation of standards professionals on this episode of Standards Impact.

Join guest host Donovan Swift as he speaks with Joe Sinicrope, research scientist for Florida International University’s Applied Research Center and faculty advisor for the FIU student chapter. He is also a member of ASTM's committee on nuclear technology and applications.

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Transcript

Donovan Swift (00:12):

Colleges in Miami are famous for a lot of things like football and proximity to Florida beaches. But Florida International University is also where A STM opened its first student chapter in 2020. The student chapter program was created to get students and young professionals involved in the standards development process, both during and after their time in college. The program has since grown to five chapters across four countries. I'm Donovan Swift, managing Editor of Standardization News, and I had the pleasure of talking with Joe Syncro to learn more about ASTM student chapters. Joe is the faculty advisor of the student chapter at FIU and he is also a member of ASTM's Committee on Nuclear Technology and Applications. I talked to him about why it's so essential to get students involved in the standards development process and how student involvement shapes the future of standards. So while you and I might find standards interesting, I imagine standards may not be the first choice for most 19 or 20 year olds on a college campus, especially when you're right around the corner from South Beach. So how do you get students excited about standards in the standard development process?

Joe Sinicrope (01:16):

That's a great question. I, I guess if I had to sum it up in a word, I'd say purpose. I'll be honest. I mean, listen, I've had the honor and privilege of leading young men and women from all walks of life across the globe. It's been my experience that today's generation is every bit, if not more so self-motivated about doing one of two things. They're either driven to change the world, to make it a better place, or to literally change the world itself. And that is the purpose that they want to align with. And standards facilitate both of these motivations, these challenges. This purpose is embedded in the very motto of A STM helping our world work better. And this is particularly true in the case of university-based research projects. We have about 21 active students in our A STM student chapter at FIU shout out for all of our, uh, members.

(02:13):

And of those, about 18 of them are either masters or PhD candidates working on and advancing research and technology in their respective fields. They all firmly believe that, uh, their research is gonna make the world a better place or maybe even change it. And we emphasize here at A STM through our student chapter, we emphasize the fact that in our advanced standards curriculum that we develop for that chapter, that voluntary consensus standards serve as critical enablers that facilitate their respective technologies, acceptance, adoption and diffusion across the public. And so when they see that direct link between the use of standards and the advancement of their technology and their research in their minds, it's intended to make the world a better place and to change it, then they see and immediately make that connection, that standards help facilitate their purpose. And this alignment, uh, at least from my experience, is what keeps them excited about the standards development process continues to keep 'em, uh, participating and just really super, super excited about joining this overall effort. So if you can link and tap into their purpose, which is making the world a better place, they see the linkage of standards in that it has proven, uh, to be fertile ground for us to maintain a high level of interest in the entire process of what many would probably consider mundane. But if you can get 'em tapped into that purpose, they really latch onto it and excel.

Donovan Swift (03:46):

Once students get their foot in the door, what are some examples of the kind of hands-on experience they can get through student membership?

Joe Sinicrope (03:53):

So there's the obvious examples, right? The tangible ones as I call 'em. Things like networking, things like mentorship from some of the world's leading technical experts in their field, access to scholarships, opportunities to participate in internships like at the nexus of engineering and policy, much like the WISE program, which I was just a faculty mentor for. And so, yes, absolutely you have for the students very tangible benefits and experiences that the students can, can get involved with. But again, to kind of link to my first point, you know, what I really believe is the most rewarding aspect of student membership or some of the intangible ones that you get through through that membership with A STM, I'm a huge, I mean a huge proponent of A STM as an institution because it truly invests in establishing what I kind of refer to constantly as this infrastructure of opportunity for young men and women to do.

(04:56):

And this is important to me, meaningful engagement towards a purpose. I emphasize meaningful engagement kind of because it links to the above point I made about purpose. And I know that that's the key for keeping these youngsters engaged, but meaningful engagement in that it's to capture and maintain the attention. If you're gonna do that, if you're gonna capture and maintain the attention of today's generation, I firmly believe we need to go well beyond the idea of just allowing participation. And we need to create an environment and culture for them to contribute for them to be meaningfully engaged. This is a shift from the old school ways of transferring knowledge or of providing opportunity. You know, these kind of these long drawn out apprenticeships. Today's generation, I'm gonna tell you are ready to engage and to do meaningful engagement right out of the block. And frankly, in my humble opinion, it's that approach that's going to be way more successful as we kind of all open up opportunities for the students.

(06:05):

And this is precisely the approach and the fundamental difference in the approach that I think that A STM is championing in their workforce development initiatives, whether it's for students, whether it's for emerging professionals, this insistence on providing the intangible of meaningful engagement for our younger generations. And again, it's this meaningful generation linked to that worthwhile purpose that our articulated before that attracts and keeps our students and our emerging professionals coming back. And it's what makes those experiences, those tangible experiences, so absolutely rewarding. It, it takes me back to, to my Marine Corps days where General Dunford gave a great class at my commander's course and he emphasized a particular point religiously. The, the difference between good units and great units are the intangibles and A STM student programs touch on the intangible of meaningful engagement and contribution. And in my opinion, that's what makes it so incredible the overall experience for the students as they come into A STM.

Donovan Swift (07:16):

Yeah, it sounds like students gain a lot of interesting and diverse experience, not just, uh, technical expertise, but I imagine it's a two-way street. So how does A STM benefit from students getting involved with committees and the standards development process?

Joe Sinicrope (07:31):

I absolutely love this question. You know, we lo often look at these types of things as one way or feel good measures to give back, but I can tell you firsthand in a nutshell, what does A STM get? I'm gonna tell you right now from my experience as as a chair for E 10 and E 10 0 3, the things that we're getting higher quality standards and a viable workforce well into the future. Bottom line, I would also say that, um, what a STM gets when they bring these students in, these emerging professionals, younger professionals into the fold, is something that is absolutely critical to the vibrancy and dynamic nature of any organization so that it remains relevant. And that's that you are constantly having the status quo challenged, regularly new blood brings in a challenge of the status quo and ASTMs ability to bring that in and to review that and to constantly have to kind of justify how they do things on the technical committee level or wherever the case is, as you get this influx of new ideas, is it keeps the organization vibrant and it keeps it just where it needs to be.

(08:50):

And so these students are bringing in new state of the art cutting edge knowledge, both in terms of technology and the knowledge itself. As we know both these things are growing exponentially and we must tap into them, bring them in for those things I was talking about, meaningful engagement so that we can improve our standards so that we can improve our business model so that we can improve how we integrate standards. Another example, I served as the faculty mentor for the WISE program of which A STM is a sponsor, uh, where they bring in engineering students from across the country and have them kind of work policy issues related to technology. And so as those folks come in, they're constantly challenging how we can think of new ways to integrate standards. And so we're in an environment of deregulation, for example, where you have deregulation at the federal level.

(09:47):

Well, voluntary consensus standards can potentially fill a role or fill a gap in things that are created through deregulation as another example. And so they're kind of opening up this space for the institution for A STM International to explore and see if there is an increased role of standards during times of deregulation. And that's kind of being birthed from the students, right? That goes into this theme of challenging the status quo. So I think those from the tangible perspective, better standards, more viable workforce well into the future and challenging the status quo are great things. I'd also say as a committee member, you know, so I'm part of the E 10 committee for Nuclear Technology and Applications. I would say our average age of our committee members is easily well into its sixties. Alright, what do these students bring? They are invigorating. I am now sitting in on meetings and have seen some of the old timers come forth and more invigorated, more dynamic, bigger increases in participation in person because they want to be surrounded and engaged with the students and with the emerging professionals.

(11:02):

It invigorates them. It gives them the opportunity, you know, in their minds to kind of pass on their legacy, right? An opportunity to make this lasting impact and to engage and to be vibrant and see what's going on in the field. And so I'm seeing things at the institutional level, like I said, for A STM things at the technical committee level, but things at just the human to human person to person contact level that A STM benefits from and the people within A STM benefit from by having these students jump in and, and, and join the committees and participate in the overall standards development process.

Donovan Swift (11:39):

Yeah. You touched on this a little bit, but I'm curious about when you said a viable workforce. How do you think industry benefits from student participation with standards?

Joe Sinicrope (11:48):

Yeah, with without a doubt. And as an educator myself at the university level, I think industry is for sure coming out with a much better, well-rounded individual that participates not just in the baseline discipline and learning of their field at the university level, but by the opportunities and expanding that through the standards development effort. First of all, they get to see on my committee real examples of, of our committee members, our technical committee members, seeing our students and almost stealing them away to some extent. And that they see, wow, this is a, so that workforce development for their own purposes, uh, in other words, ASTMs kind of efforts here are contributing to the industry at large workforce development, um, at least in the nuclear decommissioning industry, for example. So industry's getting even a better well-rounded individual that they can recruit, retain, bring in, into the fold for their industry purposes.

(12:54):

Again, better standards. I say that again, our students have literally contributed to not just participate, they have contributed no kidding standards and testing practices that they take out of the university lab and are applying to these new technologies that are being embraced by the A STM technical committees and industry at large. Whether that is a reduction in cost because they've figured out a way to bring in a new type of equipment to do the same type of test, get more accurate results. All of these things come together when you keep these students coming in. They're really contributing in a meaningful way to advancing their fields and advancing the body of knowledge. And that advancement in the body of knowledge definitely helps industry, it helps A STM and the technical committees. It's just this great, great conglomeration of advantages that come towards industry and everybody else by having these folks participate.

Donovan Swift (14:03):

Yeah. And you mentioned that student members help invigorate some veteran committee members, and those committees are even starting to allow student members to join the rosters and participate in the standards development process. So what are some ways members can engage, recruit, and retain those students after graduation?

Joe Sinicrope (14:19):

First and foremost, I'll say I am not a hundred percent a million percent on board with this development and, and have been advocating it for years at every opportunity in every form for the reasons I outlined above. You know, they make our organization better bringing these students in to the rosters, to the recruit them and retain them. I think as long as the committees adhere to some of the principles that I kind of articulated, keep the focus on a purpose. And all of the technical committees are exceptionally committed to their purpose for their industry. So if they continue to emphasize that, and if they continue to do meaningful engagement, which like we said, voting is one of those examples where, where our committee has embraced, we'll let them vote, we're putting some parameters on that so you don't hold up the entire consensus process and the voluntary, you know, standards process.

(15:19):

But we are not afraid of embracing this and allowing and integrating them because we have seen through our sponsorship of the A STM student chapter at FIU, we've seen the benefits that come from adopting and, and really advocating for these efforts to more fully engage and integrate the students into our overall standards development processes at the technical committee level. It's a great development. I would encourage for any of those technical committees out there listening to this podcast to embrace it, to really explore it and see firsthand the benefits that will undoubtedly come from those particular types of initiatives. And then, you know, go out and hopefully when they see that they themselves will start to sponsor a STM student chapters as an example, at other universities that are aligned or have particularly strong correlations or strengths alignment with their particular industry. So if you're in the additive manufacturing industry, go find those schools and establish a student chapter in additive manufacturing. Bring those guys into your committee, afford those students the opportunity to fully engage, contribute, participate, vote, or whatever your particular effort is for us nuclear decommissioning. We recruit heavily from Vanderbilt, from FIU, from Purdue, looking at establishing additional student chapters so we can bring more into the fold and kinda keep ourselves vibrant at the technical committee level, recruit new people, retain them after graduation, all of those things that come through the venue of these student chapters

Donovan Swift (17:01):

Chapter. Yeah, this is all fascinating stuff, Joe. I think we're all excited to see the student chapters expand and see more and more students get involved with standards so that they can make some awesome new technology that most of us couldn't even dream of. So I just wanna thank you again for talking with us today and giving us the background of the A STM Student Chapter Program.

Joe Sinicrope (17:19):

Chapter program. Yeah, no, absolutely. A shout out to A STM International. I tell my students to align themselves with an institution that is willing to invest in them. And A-S-T-M-I say it time and time again over the past decade, has answered that call in spades. They have put skin in the game, um, and the students recognize it. And, and that just, again, an intangible creates this lasting bond, this forever relationship. And so the students that are going through our student chapters, without a doubt, are going to be active participants in the standards development process with A STM and their industry for years to come and will open the door for others because of the efforts of A STM. So, so my hat's off in all sincerity to A STM International, to their support, to the people who are investing in the future in new innovative ways, getting away from some of the old school think and adopting some new initiatives and approaches to student engagement that without a doubt are gonna have incredible returns on investment for the institution and the uh, students themselves in the long run.

Donovan Swift (18:38):

All right. Yeah, I look forward to seeing that future. Thanks again, Joe. 

If you wanna learn more about a SDM student chapters, visit astm.org. And if you enjoyed the show, remember to like and subscribe. I'm Donovan Swift, and this has been Standards Impact presented by A SDM International.