#132: Goop Is Everywhere—And It’s Making Us Worse

Get 20% off any STSI course with code GOOP20 — become a systems thinker today!

In this episode, Drs. Derek and Laura Cabrera expand the idea of “goop” beyond food and into the systems all around us.

They explore how heavily processed food, social media, education, news, consumer products, and even AI can become forms of goop: things that appear useful, nutritious, or informative, but are often stripped of real value and repackaged in ways that manipulate us. From chicken nuggets and plug-in air fresheners to social media echo chambers and memorization-based schooling, they show how goop replaces real nourishment with convenience, consumption, and passive acceptance.

The conversation also explores how parents, teachers, and individuals can build “goop radar” through thinking, metacognition, media literacy, and systems awareness. Instead of simply consuming more information, Derek and Laura argue that we need to help people—especially kids—learn how to organize information, question what they are being fed, and develop character, agency, and adaptive thinking.

If you’ve ever wondered why modern life feels overloaded, artificial, or manipulative, this episode gives you a systems thinking lens for seeing the goop—and choosing something better.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:01

Welcome to the Cabrera Lab podcast.

SPEAKER_03 0:05

Hey!

SPEAKER_01 0:06

What's up?

SPEAKER_03 0:07

Everything?

SPEAKER_01 0:08

Everything's up?

SPEAKER_03 0:08

No, some things are down.

SPEAKER_01 0:10

Yes, that's true.

SPEAKER_03 0:11

By laws of the universe and things like that.

SPEAKER_01 0:12

Well, there is no up and down in the universe.

SPEAKER_03 0:15

That's true. It's just everything's everything. Alright, so listen.

SPEAKER_01 0:19

What?

SPEAKER_03 0:20

We've gotten a lot of play on the idea of goop.

SPEAKER_01 0:23

Oh.

SPEAKER_03 0:24

And goop in some of the previous podcasts, I think we've done one or two on it.

SPEAKER_01 0:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 0:29

We were referring to things that are pretending to be nutritious but that are not nutritious, mostly food and food products.

SPEAKER_00 0:37

Yes. Anything that has been at any point in its life goopy.

SPEAKER_03 0:41

Squeezed through a tube and then reconstituted to another thing. Yeah. Like a lot of heavily processed foods and things like that. But you know, we recently had some friends visit us and we were talking about it a little bit, and it seems to me that goop is all around us.

SPEAKER_01 0:57

Goop is all around us.

SPEAKER_03 1:00

I think goop's all around us. I think we should talk about the other places that goop exists and why goop is a problem. It's problematic.

SPEAKER_00 1:08

Yeah. So it's usually problematic.

SPEAKER_03 1:10

The most obvious example food. Food. The next most obvious social media.

SPEAKER_00 1:16

Yeah, social media is goop.

SPEAKER_03 1:18

Next one.

SPEAKER_00 1:20

News, education, schooling.

SPEAKER_03 1:23

Those kinds of things.

SPEAKER_00 1:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:25

Pretty much everything these days is goopy. I mean, you know, it's it's just like social media is like, you know, everything's very short. Everything's compressed, processed, inauthentic, you know, not from the s not from a source, not from you know, it's like anytime you start breaking down the thing, really in any way, the ro the way I think of it is like you you think, oh, uh if I t if I've got like an apple, that's an apple, you know. But as soon as I put it in a blender, I'm breaking all the fiber and I turn it into a like a like applesauce. That's the beginning of goobiness. But then I'm like, oh, okay, well, I want to remove all the lumps and then you know, just keep going down to apple juice, and then you're like, oh, I want to make it clear. Or whatever. Or I want to make it blue or whatever, you know, and you just keep you keep getting further and further away from Apple.

SPEAKER_03 2:32

Which is designed perfectly.

SPEAKER_00 2:34

Yeah, it's pretty good. I love apples.

SPEAKER_03 2:36

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:37

But you know, that's the the goopification of things, is is uh, you know, and you you hear you see this with like chicken McNuggets or whatever, you know. So we'll probably never get sponsorship from McDonald's, but no thanks.

SPEAKER_02 2:52

Or the dinosaur-shaped chicken McNuggets.

SPEAKER_00 2:54

Yeah, dinosaur shaped, right? Like they weren't even okay with the sh the McNugget shape. It had to be dinosaurs, right? But it's like it's in reality, you you you have one of those and you think, oh, this is just breaded fried chicken. But it's actually breaded fried goop.

SPEAKER_04 3:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:12

And the breaded and and the fried is also goop, by the way. They're all three of those things are f goop.

SPEAKER_05 3:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:18

That are just goop on goop on goop, right? And at one point in time it was like this extruded pink paste. Mush. Which may or may not be chicken.

SPEAKER_03 3:31

Well, there's some.

SPEAKER_00 3:32

And it's certainly not like the breast of chicken or whatever what you think of, or whatever.

SPEAKER_03 3:37

Probably not the parts you would eat.

SPEAKER_00 3:39

Yeah. So I think we're doing the same thing with you know knowledge. We we we you know put it into these little goop packets of curriculum, and then we put it on tests, and it's you know, true or false, and multiple choice, and you know, it gets so far away from the source of what is it, why do I need to know this? And why do I need to, why do I need to take up this limited, very expensive real estate of my brain to know this when I can look it up or I can, you know, what do I really need to know? You know, like I would what what do we really want in a person? Yeah, do we want them to know the you know counties of New York State? The 62 counties of New York State or whatever, you know, do we want them to know that? Or do we want them to have high character, you know, integrity, thinking skills, thinking skills, yeah, you know, understand how their how their country works, you know, etc.

SPEAKER_03 4:47

We want everyone in the world on the path to pro. White belt, yellow belt, blue belt, landing in the PST credential.

SPEAKER_00 4:55

The professional systems thinker credential. And that's not just personal, it's also part of a wider vision of eight billion systems thinkers above the standard, which is the professional systems thinker or PST. Count yourself into it and let's change ourselves. And when we change ourselves, we change the world.

SPEAKER_03 5:17

Well, the thing that's interesting about that, if you look at the examples of food to social media to education, the thing that's interesting about it is you take something that has the potential to be nutritious, delicious, and good for you, you kind of reconstitute it, you sell it as if it's good for you, nutritious, right, and has positive value, like chicken McNuggets. Oh, yeah, chicken, that's a great lean protein.

SPEAKER_00 5:43

Well, I love it. In the goop that they sell, they even put on it and fortified with vitamins. You're like, well, the original thing was fortified with vitamins, and then you've bleached the crap out of it, and then you had to re-fortify it with gooped vitamins, right? You took you you bleach the crap out of those vitamins and then put them in there. And you're like, Yes, how insane is this?

SPEAKER_03 6:08

It's crazy, but then take the analogy further, right? Then you go into social media.

SPEAKER_00 6:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 6:13

The benefit of social media to a lot of people is that it's fast, right? That it's little bits of information. It can scroll, scroll, scroll, scroll. And I mean, I know I've met a lot of people in the age group of you know, like 10 to 20, and they believe that what they read is true. That's why we have classes on media literacy now, because people are taking all those things as facts.

SPEAKER_01 6:34

Yeah, that's bad.

SPEAKER_03 6:35

But the truth is they're echo chambers, they're a place for ads to manipulate you. They're goop, right? They have they they pretend to be good information, they pretend to be good for you, but they're just terrible for you.

SPEAKER_05 6:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 6:49

And you're being manipulated every time you're on there. Now you take it to education. So we're learning a lot of things, they're learning a lot of stuff, a lot of information, and that's you know, cultural literacy, however you want to say it, and it's the basics. But the truth is they're not going to match up to the world that they are leaving to become.

SPEAKER_00 7:12

We, you know, had grad students at one of the best universities in the world who presumably went through at least 16 years of standards-based education that had reading, writing, speaking, standards, math standards, and they could could barely do any of them.

SPEAKER_02 7:37

They struggled.

SPEAKER_00 7:38

They struggled.

SPEAKER_02 7:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:39

So so if that's the case, if you can make it through s the gauntlet of 16 years and the net result, and even do so well that you're able to get acceptance to uh a difficult to get into university and you can't do the thing that the standards are about, yeah. It's uh that means that you ate a lot of goop.

SPEAKER_03 8:05

Right, but to be fair, yeah, the students are meeting the expectations of the system.

SPEAKER_01 8:11

They're goopy expectations.

SPEAKER_03 8:12

Yeah, but it but in many ways they're excelling at the expectations of the system. Of course. So they did what they thought they were supposed to do.

SPEAKER_01 8:18

Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 8:18

The teachers are teaching what they need to teach, they're told to teach. Absolutely. Right?

SPEAKER_00 8:24

And the truth of the matter is Our government put out a foo food pyramid of goop.

SPEAKER_03 8:30

Yeah, now it's a plate.

SPEAKER_00 8:32

I'm just saying, like, I'm saying just because everybody's doing it and just because everybody accepts it doesn't make it not goopy. I mean, are I mean most of the food that is in our grocery stores is goop. Most of it. In fact, there's a pretty simple rule that you go around the shop the edge, and there's only two edges, by the way, because the other edge is like dog food and paper towels, and the front edge is is like cash registers. So you basically have an L of food that is not goop.

SPEAKER_03 9:09

Fruits, vegetables, and meats in the L.

SPEAKER_00 9:12

Right.

SPEAKER_03 9:13

And all of the processed stuff is in the center aisles.

SPEAKER_00 9:16

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 9:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:17

So take that ratio and apply it to every other system that we have. And what you find is it's goop. Even, you know, medicine and healthcare and all these different systems are populated by goop. And yet we trust them, and we, you know, and what we need to do is not trust or distrust them, but be like, wait a minute. Like, let's separate the wheat from the chaff, let's separate the goop from the nutritional stuff, the stuff that fortifies us. And let's learn, let's be educated by being able to think for ourselves. Let's be educated by being able to, you know, take information and organize it for a particular purpose and adapt to whatever situation that we're in.

SPEAKER_05 10:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:08

Not just I consume information. I'm a consumer of information, right? Yeah. Which sets us up almost perfectly for being a consumer of information on social media.

SPEAKER_04 10:23

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 10:23

Which sets us up perfectly to be a consumer of information that's selling us all the things, all the other goopy products that we this made no sense to me. And if you're out there and you have one of these things, I strongly encourage you to get rid of it. What things? And since the day they came out, I have been like, there is no way that that isn't horrible for you.

SPEAKER_05 10:51

What?

SPEAKER_00 10:51

And they've been around for like 40 years, maybe longer. Those little things that you plug into the wall that makes smell. Glade plugins. Glade plugins.

SPEAKER_03 11:04

Well, that's one brand, but yeah, plugins. Yeah, any plugins.

SPEAKER_00 11:08

You look, it's literally like a reservoir of chemicals that you are heating up and then dispersing into the air so you can breathe it. And we think that's a good idea. And nobody goes, What? No, we can't do that. That's insane.

SPEAKER_03 11:31

I thought you were going to talk about those candies that are sticks of sugar that you dip into.

SPEAKER_00 11:38

Yeah, exactly. I mean it's like sugar on a cane of sugar picking up sugar. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 11:44

Yeah. But though, okay, so here's the thing. You're saying we need to be educated consumers. And so what does a person do to be?

SPEAKER_00 11:51

I'm saying we need to think, right? I I can't tell you the number of houses I've walked into that like smell like that. And you just like, I am literally having like an asthmatic attack in the first 20 seconds of this house. And these folks are living in this house 24 hours a day. They're breathing this in. It's like vaping. They're vaping.

SPEAKER_03 12:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:13

They're basically vaping. It's environmental vaping.

SPEAKER_03 12:16

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:17

If we just kind of go through the motions and take the information and consume the information, then it's very easy to be consumed by a great story. Like you can make your house smell great.

SPEAKER_03 12:28

It can smell like Christmas. It can smell like Christmas.

SPEAKER_00 12:31

It can smell like candy canes. It can smell like cotton candy. It can smell like whatever you want it to smell like. That's goop.

SPEAKER_03 12:38

It is. And I'm saying to you, we make the case that goops everywhere, goops all around us. How do you become a savvy consumer that can spot it from a mile away?

SPEAKER_00 12:51

I just think it's common sense and like have goop radar.

SPEAKER_03 12:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:54

Just have like build goop radar. Like a hat or something that's like goop. You know, like everything, like, you know, and sometimes there are times where goop is fine. Like, you know, I guess if you go to the circus or something, cotton candy and whatever. I'm not saying avoid all things all the time. I'm just saying don't we shouldn't be mindless about it. Right. We shouldn't be mindless about it. We should be aware of it and aware of how how predominant it is, how pervasive it is, how much it's affecting our children's lives, how much it's affecting our own lives, and be willing to question systems that are purveyors of it.

SPEAKER_03 13:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:42

And and don't think that, you know, little old me can't use common sense to be like, I don't care what these experts are saying.

SPEAKER_03 13:53

Yeah, I get that. So it seems like if you look across the examples, the thing that you need to do is, well, first you have to ask yourself, is this good for me? Like, is this actually nutritious, healthy, meaningful, helpful? And whatever the verb is relative to each of the examples, is it good for me? If it's not, then you can go a step further and say, okay, well, why am I making this decision then? How am I being manipulated to make this decision? What's missing?

SPEAKER_05 14:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 14:24

Right? Where's the nutrition? Where can I get the nutrition from another source? Nutrition metaphorically.

SPEAKER_00 14:29

And uh, you know, these things aren't black and white. For example, like I said about the circus, like you, you know, if if you spent the whole week being as, you know, doing hard common sense, like thinking, you know, and then at the end of the week you want to go to a mindless movie and consume some, you know, some movie junk. Yeah, that's not that's goop with a purpose.

SPEAKER_03 14:56

And awareness.

SPEAKER_00 14:57

And awareness, and and it has a point to it, and it has a beginning and an end to it. But if the if the constant inflow and outflow is goop, yeah, and it's almost like you have no choice in it because you have no agency in it, you have no awareness of it, and you send your we send our kids to school in it, and we send our and you know, for years and years and years they're being exposed to goop.

SPEAKER_03 15:20

Yeah. But I mean, as a parent, you can help your kids with the school stuff, right? So we were talking to a guy uh a week or two ago at a conference, and he was saying, because he's learning all of these systems thinking stuff, and he said, I really want to help my kids navigate school with this, but I don't know how to do it, right? And we talked to him about well, they're bringing home informational content.

SPEAKER_05 15:40

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 15:41

Your job is to question how they're thinking about that content. With the O. Right.

SPEAKER_00 15:46

With the IO.

SPEAKER_03 15:47

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 15:48

Because all they're getting at school is I.

SPEAKER_02 15:50

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 15:51

And a particular type of I, even, not even good, terribly good I, but you need to bring the O into it, the organizational ability, the ability to organize information and make relevant meaning out of it for a particular situation, that adaptivity and mental fitness.

SPEAKER_05 16:08

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 16:09

So it's absolutely an inoculating uh role that the parent has to play in this. If you're not gonna if you're not gonna completely remove your kids from the system, which some people don't want to do, some people can't do, whatever, then you have to inoculate them because every day they're going to school, and every day they're on the internet, and every day they're on social media, and every day they're being bombarded with goop. Yeah.

unknown 16:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:38

From every single direction.

SPEAKER_03 16:40

Right. So part of it is helping to, as they grow older, help them develop that awareness like we do with our kids with social media. Is that something to be trusted? Is that an actual source? Are they trying to manipulate you for your time, your money, your vote, whatever it is, and try to get that sort of metacognant awareness in them so that as they're navigating these systems, they can kind of spot it for themselves.

SPEAKER_00 17:04

That's right. I mean, it is fundamentally thinking. That's really it's nothing new. It's something that we've been very good at for a very long time. And we've kind of, in a way, we've almost handed over our strongest inoculation that we humans have, which is the the ability to think.

SPEAKER_05 17:24

Yeah, to understand.

SPEAKER_00 17:26

And we've we're all we're almost in the process of just handing it over almost completely. Oh, you mean with AI and with AI and and I mean we've been handing it over for decades now, slowly like the boiling frog, but we're about to just be like, hey, you take it. And by the way, all the information that we've created with that thinking over time is how that thing's trained.

SPEAKER_05 17:49

Right.

SPEAKER_00 17:50

So it's just gonna regurgitate back to us all that.

SPEAKER_05 17:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:54

And then it's gonna, and then it's gonna start eating its own tail of regurgitation.

SPEAKER_02 17:59

And it's gonna implode.

SPEAKER_00 18:01

I don't know. At some point it degrades, right?

SPEAKER_03 18:04

It's interesting. I think I think a lot of it for me is the distinction between I mean, I I think a lot of the the way that we deal with it is we ask ourselves, well, how, how am I thinking about this thing? You know, what are the things that matter in terms of school? If you think about social media, it's sort of don't trust it, verify it. Like usually you would say trust, but verify. I would say social media, I'd say verify and then trust, because social media is just wrought with ill-intended manipulations, google, everything.

SPEAKER_00 18:34

And echo chambers. I mean, uh, you know, like I I'm constantly, if I notice that my social media is feeding me a lot of the same thing, yeah. Uh the same opinions, the same politics, the same what I'll purposefully go out for a few seconds and train it to bring in some more stuff. So it's just that awareness, because otherwise you get locked in it and you start to think everybody thinks like this, now I think like this, and it's it's these are echo chambers.

SPEAKER_04 19:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:05

And they give you the impression that you're just absolutely right about every single thing you think, and they start influencing you in that.

SPEAKER_03 19:16

And that you're in the majority. And that you're in the majority, and you're pushing out all of the opposing views, minority views, and all that.

SPEAKER_00 19:24

It's just unhealthy.

SPEAKER_03 19:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:26

So that's mentally it's mentally unhealthy. And it can be physically unhealthy. Absolutely. It's it's meant it's mental, physical, all of it is. I mean, I think the biggest one of the biggest issues is goop.

SPEAKER_02 19:38

It's everywhere.

SPEAKER_00 19:39

It's everywhere. Goop is all around us.

SPEAKER_02 19:41

I think there could be like a movie poster of like slime. So that could be the sound.

unknown 19:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:47

This goop part three or part two.

SPEAKER_00 19:50

Yeah, I think we've done a couple others on goop, but yeah. It's pervasive. That's the problem. And and if you have children, you know what we're talking about because it's like every day you're like, God, how do I navigate the popularity of these things and the popularity of these foods and the I mean blue takis and you know, how do I navigate that? How do I navigate all of it, you know, social media constant? How do I navigate that the things that we need? I mean, I always think about when when I was a kid, we used to go to the flea market and buy furniture and then we'd like we'd buy like antiques and then finish them for furniture in the house.

SPEAKER_04 20:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:37

And I learned at one point in time that an antique, the way that you determine what an antique is is 20 years. So something becomes an antique at 20 years. Not sure if that's still true, but that's what I learned.

SPEAKER_03 20:50

Seems young to me, but yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:52

So you think about it like humans who are 20 years old are antiques.

SPEAKER_02 20:59

Yeah, that's weird.

SPEAKER_00 21:00

Right? They've been on the planet for a long time. And I don't think we're developing them as best as we can. I think I think they I think they could be more developed.

SPEAKER_05 21:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:13

I think we're missing out on a tremendous amount of potential and opportunity. You know, as an antique, as a fellow antique. You know, if you're looking around, if you're 20 and you're looking around, you don't say I'm so young. Say I'm 20. I've been I've been alive for 20 years, as long as the antique.

SPEAKER_03 21:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:32

Maybe I start thinking throwing down some wisdom.

SPEAKER_03 21:36

Some wisdom at 20.

SPEAKER_00 21:38

That's what I'm saying. There's no reason why we couldn't. The problem is we're wasting a lot of years developmentally. We're wasting it in hours and hours and hours a day of training in schools that is not up to snuff. be far better.

SPEAKER_03 22:01

Yeah, yeah. I mean I think the other scary point about that is there's a point where you really have very little influence over and so what you want to do is build those skills early so that they are their own sort of intrinsic moderator of what's coming in and how much what's coming in is trusted. Because once they're gone I mean imagine unregulated kids are on social media becoming adults.

SPEAKER_05 22:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 22:30

I mean that's not gonna that's not gonna be end well.

SPEAKER_05 22:34

No.

SPEAKER_03 22:34

They're not gonna be as engaged in the present. They're gonna there's gonna be all kinds of problems downstream.

SPEAKER_00 22:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 22:39

So I think part of it is start early.

SPEAKER_00 22:41

Start early with I think that's true for parents and I think that's true for society. I think if we started early teaching thinking I think if we started early you know being active I think if we started early being Vitruvian across the whole Vitruvian human kind of motivationally emotionally cognitively and physically by 20 by antique state status we could have millions of superstars because their capacity to be amazing is you know remarkable.

SPEAKER_03 23:22

Well not only that I mean it would be nice to have them but it would be just nice for them to be grounded in reality.

SPEAKER_00 23:27

That's what I mean by remarkable yeah like not remarkable like oh I can play a you know the piano remarkable like good people who do the right thing who make the right choices who you know are kind to each other who are who are intrinsically motivated yeah intrinsically motivated who who understand the importance of self and other and community and all you know family and all that kind of stuff yeah all the all the values that we care about those are the hard things to teach those are the hard things to teach yeah we should be teaching those I agree right those are hard to teach that's why family's so important that's why parenting is so important that's why starting early is so important because it takes a long time to teach those things. It takes a long time to teach integrity it takes a long time to teach character it takes a long time to teach thinking it it takes time to build it and practice it and learn how to do it well. It doesn't take a long time to memorize stuff.

SPEAKER_03 24:37

No.

SPEAKER_00 24:37

And it doesn't take a long time to forget what you memorized.

SPEAKER_02 24:41

It's pretty quick.

SPEAKER_00 24:42

It's incredibly quick with the research on it is like you know they do research on testing the kids that get an A on a test and then they test them a week later on the same information they've had like a 30% degree decay 30 days later they've almost forgotten all of it. Yeah so what we're doing that over year over year year over year memorize forget memorize forget memorize forget which is why we get to antique humans that know very little and understand very little and also don't have the thinking or the character or those kinds of things to to to have a great life whatever you want to do. I'm not talking about like you know doctor lawyer or whatever. I'm talking about just have a good life be happy be a have a fulfilling life. Yeah be fulfilled as a human. That's the hardest part I mean being a cog at a machine is not hard. The machine will make you a cog. Being a fulfilled human that feels like they're contributing and feels like they're good at something and feels like they're happy and feels you know feels good with others and is has people in their lives that's hard to produce that's why you have to do these things and goop is taking up all the space.

SPEAKER_03 26:02

Well and I think that's part of the issue is it's hard it's hard to be a parent it's hard to be a teacher it's hard to be a consumer. Yes because the systems are literally sort of working against you and pulling you in. And so developing that awareness that metacognition is the way to really inoculate yourself inoculate others so that that pull isn't really pulling that's why I don't I don't blame anyone and I blame everyone.

SPEAKER_00 26:29

That's what that's really important. It's not like I'm pointing the finger at when I say schools are not doing well, I don't mean teachers because we're all a part of the system like we're all to blame and none of us are to blame.

SPEAKER_04 26:45

Right.

SPEAKER_00 26:45

You know however you want to think about it. But we have to sort of stand up and say well we want different systems and though and that starts with me because I'm an agent in the system. Yeah and if I can f influence other agents to have better systems then we will and if I just keep waiting for the system to correct itself it won't no that's true. That you can predict that you can predict it won't it'll keep going to the least common denominator which is goop.

SPEAKER_03 27:16

Right consumerism and group and goop yep yep but there is an antidote thinking awareness metacognition all those things yep and we can help little ones develop it early and we can develop it and they love it little ones are completely evolutionarily designed for it.

SPEAKER_00 27:34

They love it they love learning they love thinking they love it they can't get enough of it they love it. They were born to do it and then we beat it out of them we we monotonize it out of them that's right we don't reward it otherwise yeah no we reward like you know little Scooby snack memorization games yeah and they're we treat them like seals for long enough that they end up being seals looking for fish looking for fish interesting all right then all right that's a wrap