From Athletic Dreams to Indigenous Ink: Nolan's Story of Resilience and Tattoo Artistry

#004 When life throws a curveball, it's the resilience within us that crafts our most profound stories. Join me as I sit down with Nolan, a Beauval-born tattoo artist, whose life took an unexpected turn from aspiring athlete to a master of ink and culture. His narrative is a powerful reminder of the beauty and strength that emerges from the ashes of shattered dreams, amplified through the deep connections between his art and Indigenous heritage. In our conversation, Nolan opens up about the car accident that rerouted his destiny and the pivotal role of a friend who saw his unmined potential, setting him on the path to tattoo artistry. 

Embarking on a journey toward self-discovery isn't without its hurdles. Nolan's candid tales of growth, from the initial hesitance to embrace a new identity to the eventual fusion of personal and cultural expression in his tattoo work, are nothing short of inspiring. He highlights the importance of evolving artistically, taking risks, and the intrinsic value of incorporating indigenous narratives into his designs. This episode peels back the layers of Nolan's artistic metamorphosis, celebrating his bold leap from the safety net of a teaching career to the creative freedoms of tattooing full-time.

The power of storytelling in our episode does not end with Nolan's transformative experiences. It extends to the communal journey of resilience, the emotional depth of ancestral tattooing, and the profound impact of setting boundaries. We traverse through powerful moments at an Indigenous tattoo gathering and the soulful connections that can only be forged through shared heritage and art. As we wrap up our time together, we leave you with a sense of anticipation for what's to come, including an upcoming conversation with Natalie Standingcloud, another remarkable artist whose journey is bound to captivate and inspire.

I hope you have enjoyed this episode, and I am excited to travel the world of Indigenous tattooing with you as we visit with friends and colleagues from across the globe doing the work. 

Check out Nolan's work at:
Instagram @malbeuf

Check out my tattoo work at:
https://www.consumedbyink.com
Instagram @dionkaszas

Buy me a Coffee at:
https://ko-fi.com/transformativemarks

I acknowledge the support of the Canada Council for the Arts 

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

I don't want to romanticize it too much, but as soon as I hit the skin with a needle I was like I found it. You know, it was just this realization, but I didn't find it, it found me. You know the circumstance created this thing, where I would you know be ready.

Speaker 2: 0:22

The Transformative Marks podcast explores how indigenous tattoo artists, cultural tattoo practitioners and ancestral skin markers transform this world for the better, dot by dot, line by line and stitch by stitch. My name is Dion Casas. I'm a Hungarian Métis and Intlacopak professional tattoo artist and ancestral skin marker. I started the work of reviving my ancestral Intlacopak skin marking practice over a decade ago. I've helped, supported and trained practitioners and tattoo artists here on Turtle Island. In this podcast, I sit down with indigenous tattoo artists, cultural tattoo practitioners and ancestral skin markers from across the globe, bringing you behind the scenes of this powerful, transformative and spiritual work.

Speaker 1: 1:18

My name is Nolan. I'm from Boval, saskatchewan. It's really really good to be here today and I'm grateful.

Speaker 2: 1:25

Awesome. Yeah, I'm stoked that you know we are able to visit in this way. You know we've been visiting for a day you know working on doing some work for the True Tribal exhibition that'll be at the Museum of Vancouver. But before we go any further, I'd just like you to kind of tell the story of the journey that brought you into being a tattoo artist.

Speaker 1: 1:50

Well, honestly, I never, ever, wanted to be a tattoo artist. I never, ever like, associated myself with art. I saw art as like a one dimensional kind of like oh, you have to put a brush to paint or pen to paper, whatever it is. Through my journey, I was always into tattoos. I loved the idea of having them. I got them and for about 15 years I was tattooed by an artist named Bunt, who became my really close friend, and he recognized something in me and he would often invite me to learn and he would offer to teach me how to tattoo. He said grasshopper, I think you should try this, I think you'd be really good at it.

Speaker 1: 2:36

And I was like man, there's no way I can't even draw a stick. Man, there's no way. I'm not an artist, I'm an athlete, I just want to play sports. And then kind of a perfect storm happened in my life where it was in a car accident and I couldn't play anymore. I was boxing at the time, putting all my energy into that, and in an instant it stopped and so I was kind of lost, feeling like an invalid. I didn't know who I was. I was 27 years old and my identity was so closely tied to my physical ability. That that's what I identified as and that's what I put my focus, my vision into was sports and when it was taken, I struggled with just being happy in my life, having purpose all that.

Speaker 1: 3:30

And during that time of grief and loss, tattooing kind of entered the story. I was in a vulnerable enough place to actually acknowledge, and maybe question, whether or not I should tattoo. I was offered to do a painting at the school I worked at and the guy said he'd pay me 300 bucks. So I said, okay, I'll paint the wall.

Speaker 2: 3:53

I didn't know how to paint.

Speaker 1: 3:55

I never painted before. So basically what I did in hindsight is I basically tattooed the wall because I had a projector. I traced all the lines and then instead of paint, I used pencil crayon. I didn't know how to paint, so I was just coloring and then it was like a big turtle with finger waves and cherry blossoms, and when it was done it was actually really nice and people really really liked it and then, that's the moment where I thought, holy man, maybe I should tattoo.

Speaker 1: 4:25

So I called Bant. He was in LaRange. I was here and I said, bro, I think I'm going to buy a tattoo kit. He's like write on grasshopper. Here's what you're going to do. You're going to tattoo a million grapefruit, find a couple guinea pigs and, when you get stuck, call me.

Speaker 2: 4:41

He said hey, write on.

Speaker 1: 4:43

So I went on eBay and I did what you're not supposed to do and I ordered a $90 kit. And then just every night in this tiny little room in my house. I was tattooing grapefruit, tattooed my sister and like don't want to romanticize it too much, but as soon as I hit the skin with a needle I was like I found it.

Speaker 1: 5:07

It was just this realization, but I didn't find it. It found me. The circumstance created this thing where I would be ready, so that's kind of it. And then, not even a year later, somebody saw my work and invited me into a shop, invited me to be an apprentice. That quickly fell apart about eight months in. I was a teacher at the time. I taught for 15 years and juggling that and them wanting you to be at the shop for street, you know like just walk-ins and I couldn't do it.

Speaker 1: 5:52

So I began tattooing in my basement. I worked alone for about eight years, moved to my garage, made a pro quality studio in there, and then one night I got a message and my boss now was in a small space and wanted a bigger space, and she needed someone and, for whatever reason, my name popped in her head. She reached out and the rest is history.

Speaker 2: 6:22

Awesome. So where do you work now?

Speaker 1: 6:23

I work at Midnight Oil in Regina, here On Dudney. It'll be five years. I'm going on 12 years tattooing, so my mat's a little off, maybe seven years. I worked alone, almost broke me.

Speaker 2: 6:38

So you said I don't know if you said now or was yesterday. We were talking about it, but you'd mentioned that it's been about a year since you went full time. What was that transition? Why was it important for you to stop splitting your time and to go full time into tattooing?

Speaker 1: 7:00

Well, you know, I guess that all comes back to that accident I was in, because it's important to realize, or important to pinpoint the fact that I didn't see myself as an artist. I would never, ever say I'm an artist. I learned to draw after I learned to tattoo and so I learned to draw. And so when that happened, then this thing was happening inside of me. I'm a matey person and I see that situation as being provoked. It's like I've got these stones inside my belly, these talents, these giftings that I don't know aren't there. I don't know they're there, but when they're provoked they move from being dormant and they become active. And so over the years, I started to just believe in myself a little more, a little more. Part of my decision not to leave and not to tattoo full time, as I have a big family for children and a wife, and teaching took care of all my needs in my life, and then tattooing was just kind of like hey, bonus you know little gravy on top, yeah, and I was good at my job.

Speaker 1: 8:18

I was a really effective teacher in the job that I had and even when I told my boss I was resigning, she was like trying to convince me to stay. But I came to a point in my life and I heard myself saying something I hadn't planned and I said I'm ready to bet on me and I took the risk and I jumped in and since then it's been wild man Like wild.

Speaker 2: 8:46

So it was worth the bet. Yes.

Speaker 1: 8:52

And you know like I don't know, like when you grow up thinking you know you have your place where you grow up, what you're born into, don't rock the boat. You know, try and act good if you're doing something different or you get teased for you know doing that stuff. So you carry that mentality. But over the years I just realized, man, like I can do this. If I work hard, if I'm willing to fight, I can do it. So what can I do? Yeah, that's the question. Now, what can't I do? Yeah, so yeah.

Speaker 2: 9:29

Yeah, and you know, when I think about that story that you have just shared with me, you know I appreciate you. You know being vulnerable and saying, you know, like I didn't have that confidence Tell about a year ago, where you were like, no, this is time it's, you know. So I really hold you up and commend you in taking that step. And you know, I hold you up because I think it's a good lesson for people to understand that it's important to bet on ourselves. You know it's important for us to take those steps to make us happy. Yes, we have other. Maybe there's other things that we've done in our lives that have been taking up space, you know, and there's no way that we can take the next step and the next thing that we're supposed to do if we're allowing that space to be taken up by something else, right, whether that thing is good and valuable and noble and all of those types of things.

Speaker 2: 10:25

Maybe that's space that needs to be let go of, so you can bring the other thing in.

Speaker 2: 10:31

So, I really commend you and hold you up for you know doing that, betting on yourself, and I think that you know that bet is paying off, because when I see your work you know I was sharing with you yesterday you know how I see your work and how I see it developing and coming forward. And you know, maybe you don't even know what you're doing. When you're doing those things, that melding of two distinct styles you know two parts of who you are, as you know, a Metis and Indigenous person in the nation state of Canada. So you know when you think about I understand you have a word for the style that you're bringing forward. Do you want to just talk about the style of work that you do? Or maybe let's start with what was? Where did you start, like what was the stuff in the beginning that you were doing as a tattoo artist, and then we'll move to what you're doing now.

Speaker 1: 11:26

Sure. So when I started, I'd like tattooed grapefruit and all I knew was like okay, man, if the skin's shredding you're running too hot. And if the line's not buttery, then you're running too low, and if it's perfect, that's where you live. So I learned my needle depth, and all that through grapefruit and $40 tattoos in the wood. That probably washed off later anyway, when I started this working at this other shop or when I was working with Bunt, I quickly gravitated towards traditional, because traditional has such bold line work.

Speaker 2: 12:10

So traditional in the sense of American.

Speaker 1: 12:12

American traditional. Yes, sorry, yeah. So just the heavy line work and bold color. And so that was my mandate like, get in there, single pass needles, single pass lines, take saturation, walk away. And so I don't know it's hard to put into words what was happening to me, because I felt like even now I have a hard time taking all the credit. I felt like something was transferred to me, whether it was my brother, my friend, just being so informative while he's tattooing me. I had no interest, but there was something being deposited. Maybe my memory he was. I mimicked him at the beginning. So there's this story that I'll never forget. But the first time I ever tattooed in front of Bunt, I went to LaRange and I was tattooing the scorpion. He set me up, he was starting tattoo and I said, bro, save me some. You know, like your cousin's eating all the chips, save me some.

Speaker 1: 13:20

And he looked up at me and he said nobody's ever said that to me before. Because he's had a lot of apprentices, so I get in there. I'm nervous, I'm picking up where he left off. He's mister me arguing, me like hands behind his back watching me. And he says well, looks like I'm going for a smoke and I'm like what?

Speaker 2: 13:43

Why are you?

Speaker 1: 13:43

leaving Did I quickly realize that I was doing what he wanted me to do and so, like that, kind of propelled me into having this confidence to just keep on taking risk and keep on trying to push my art. And so for a while there I was really into American traditional, and then my eyes started to like more detail, so then I kind of gravitated into neo-traditional, and then color was, I was getting into blending, and then my confidence kind of took a hit, so I kind of tried to fill my day with black and gray.

Speaker 1: 14:24

And then I realized oh, I'm not really about this and it's really hard. Like so let's go back to color. And then I just like put my helmet on and I just put my hand on a plow and just did. I was so hungry, just to tattoo, just to get someone in the chair, just so I could like keep going and it wasn't all good. There was lots of frustration and anger, and when your coil is not doing what you wanted to do and you're looking at your client and like you know trying to hold it together.

Speaker 1: 14:57

But yeah, I don't know. I think that my mind sometimes I have to tell it to chill out because I really like the complexities of life and so now, like even when we're talking yesterday, the color for me creates in my mind more of a contrast of what I want to do. So now, in this place that I am, I use both, a lot of my stuff. If there's bone structure like a skull or anything, I try to saturate that, not just black and gray, but actually with gray or some really really cold blues, and then I set off the outside with bold color or I split the skull.

Speaker 2: 15:41

So when you say the gray, you're like an opaque gray so like a black white. Very flat, yeah, and instead of you know, a diluted black.

Speaker 1: 15:51

Right, black, right, like a gray color.

Speaker 2: 15:54

Yeah, yeah, okay.

Speaker 1: 15:55

Yeah, and then intentionally contrasting that with as much color as I can go. And, like I said before, I think I am very, very drawn to the relationship between starting and stopping and life and death, because they're intertwined, it's almost like they're braided together. Yeah, you can't have one without the other. Yeah, right, so it's kind of how I ended up here. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: 16:31

And then how would you describe the style that you're doing now, with the kind of what would you say that taking some of that American traditional iconography, the design work you know, and then pulling in from your own ancestral visual language you know, some of the beadwork, the florals, all of that stuff? What would you say that is?

Speaker 1: 16:53

Well, I coined that, the floral stuff, muskihki, and in my language, which is mechiv, melding of kri. In French, muskihki is translated as medicine, and so my initial inspiration was beadwork. I grew up seeing a lot of beadwork. I didn't identify closely historically, had some of like. The beadwork was so beautiful that it was considered currency. People would trade for it, and so I hold that really dear to me and I think why it's so powerful for me is nature speaks of resilience, Nature speaks of fortitude.

Speaker 1: 17:47

You know you don't get to see the flower if it doesn't have that time in the soil, the pressure, all that until it breaks through. So that's life. You know, like I've struggled with a lot of stuff in my life outside of even substances just existing. You know just some challenges. But like I wouldn't be who I am and be able to express the things I do if I didn't have that soil time of the pressure and the darkness and that being planted, I guess right, and then being able to bloom after. So that, I think, is what I try to portray, is that no matter where you've been planted, I guess you know you have what it takes to make it and we're not just existing.

Speaker 1: 18:41

We have stories to tell. We have impact to make. I am somebody's legacy. Somebody fought for me to be here through maybe some of the hardest times, if not the hardest time in the history of Canada. They broke through so I could be here. So my mindset is the future is behind us, they're coming. So what can I? How can I set the table?

Speaker 2: 19:09

for my legacy.

Speaker 1: 19:11

You know so.

Speaker 2: 19:12

Yeah, it sounds like the work that you're doing when you talk about it in terms of you know the life and the death. You know, as you're sharing more about this idea of medicine, you know the. It sounds like that you're expressing that struggle that you have constantly within yourself and some of this work that you're doing.

Speaker 1: 19:34

Absolutely.

Speaker 2: 19:35

You talk about the darkness and all of that you know the death, the part of you that is the struggle, but then you're bringing forward some of that beauty and power and bringing life.

Speaker 1: 19:46

Right.

Speaker 2: 19:47

So it's pretty poetic and a beautiful expression of you know, the contemporary experience of Indigenous people. So that's, you know, yeah, just kind of a realization as we're talking through. You know some of the work, so thanks for sharing. You know the way that you see that developing out into the world, into your work, and how it comes from your life experience.

Speaker 1: 20:13

You know, and like the crazy thing, dion is like I'm not aware. I wasn't aware, you know, of the significance of what I was doing. Until I started there, there was almost an immediate traction to what I was doing. You know, métis, people have been neglected, forgotten. A nation without land, you know, for a long time.

Speaker 1: 20:41

And then that's like a huge form of abuse. And so when you know, when you're young you don't know better you want to be validated externally by not necessarily the people that you want validating you. So, like my, I feel like my purpose. I feel like tattooing is my purpose, it's my purpose to be an artist. It's, it's, it's bloomed. You know and I'm not saying I'm done, but I still have lots to go but I, I, I want it internal validation for me. But I want to also perpetuate validation for my people that you're a beautiful, strong, resilient people and that, no matter what happens, you've got it. You know they're like we don't know. And so to see that, even to be with other Metis artists, it's like whoa, you know, something cool is happening. And even when Riel said my people will sleep for 100 years, but when they wake it's the artists that will give them their spirit back, I carry that man in my backpack. I'm like, let's go, let's go.

Speaker 2: 21:59

That is that legacy.

Speaker 1: 22:01

Yes, for sure.

Speaker 2: 22:02

I think that part of the reason that you had that traction is exactly what you've been saying is just coming to that realization, and I always say a lot of times people will try to talk about tattooing when they're not tattoo artists or non-practitioners not doing the work, all these academics and stuff, but they're just observing from the outside and I always say, like, for me, when I write, when I talk about, when I think about tattooing and ancestral skin marking, it comes from within the work, right, and so you're just sharing. You know, you just brought that forward, that you weren't aware of it, but you did it and it found the traction and then you began to realize the reason it has the traction is because my people have been neglected. The reason it has traction is because people can identify. Absolutely, that's me Right. Just the same as on the coast you have folks who have their clan and their crest symbols.

Speaker 1: 23:03

Right.

Speaker 2: 23:03

For your people and partly my people as well, on my dad's side as Metis the flower beadwork people. You look at that beadwork and you know. Maybe you can think, oh, remember, my grandma had that on her jacket.

Speaker 1: 23:19

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 23:20

Or any you know, any number of folks that you can think of in your family or in the museum.

Speaker 2: 23:25

You know, maybe you don't have it currently in your family's lineage, but you know it's there, that's who your people are, so you can look down and you remember, you know, you remember your kids, you remember your grandma, you remember all those things which helps you to be connected to the world today. For sure, and I think it's also important to highlight like the thing that you're sharing is by us seeing how beautiful we are, how powerful our people are, helps us to have a vision for the future. Of course, because sometimes, you know, in those dark times, it's hard to have that vision for the future. Yeah, but sometimes, when we look at those marks, we understand that we have a future because we are powerful For sure, right, so that struggle, it's just a cool realization to see. You know how you are starting to and I would say, theorize For sure About your own work.

Speaker 2: 24:19

Yeah, right, you know. So that scholarship, right, because I would say that's what you're doing. Even though you're not writing it down, you're still thinking about it. Yeah, you're still coming out with it and saying, well, hey, I didn't really realize that. But after doing it, you know, and that's why I always say to people, the perfection isn't in the end product, the perfection's in the doing. For sure, because it's the last. For me, it's less about what that mark looks like, how perfect that line is, it's how beautifully it fits that person's body. You know how beautifully it fits their spirit, right, right, there may be a little janky line in there but when they look at it, you can see the joy that is created in their being.

Speaker 2: 24:59

Yeah Right, so yeah, just a cool observation to bring forward and highlight. You know, in that conversation because you know that's how conversation works You'll say something I'll be like, oh yeah, there's that, yeah right, you know what I mean, of course. Yeah, man.

Speaker 1: 25:18

Yeah, it's cool, like what you're saying about you know, it's almost like it evolves. So then what I was doing, without consciously doing it, is I was putting buds. In all my work there's always buds, and because that is, you know, life, man, it's coming, it's coming. And then, like I said, I'm always conscious of them. They're coming, they're behind us, they're coming, right. So I started doing buds with that intention, yeah, and then I started adding all these like squiggly lines, like on the design that I did on Amanda yesterday. There was none of that.

Speaker 2: 25:55

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 25:56

But then I just threw it in.

Speaker 2: 25:57

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 25:58

And then I was tattooing this lady and she's like man, I've seen this somewhere. Yeah, I've seen these lines somewhere.

Speaker 2: 26:04

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 26:05

Right. And then I said, well, tell me more about that. And she, the next couple of days later, she sent me a picture of this artist, this Cree artist, that had all these lines, and then he was saying these are communicative lines.

Speaker 2: 26:17

Oh, cool Between the beings, yeah.

Speaker 1: 26:21

Lines of connectivity, connection, yeah. And so then I'm like whoa man, now we got to do this, yeah. And then another thing is like oh, there's this principle called Wakutuin and that's kinship, interconnectedness, yeah. So then I started connecting all my stuff, making sure it's connected, because even in Meti beadwork you'll see, there's usually one matriarchal flower that everything comes from, but it's all connected.

Speaker 1: 26:50

Yeah, so it's pretty cool to learn as you go and then kind of feel like you know your tool belt's getting a little bigger as you trudge on right and then you get to gift this to somebody yeah.

Speaker 2: 27:04

So yeah, it's you know, part of that journey. You know, sometimes we feel like we have to know everything.

Speaker 1: 27:10

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 27:10

And it's like, oh, I don't know enough. But the reality is is we know a hell of a lot more than we actually realize, right? And it's interesting because we were kind of having this conversation yesterday and you kind of expressed like, oh, how do I find out more? Right? It was your question to me, Right. But as I hear you talk about it, as I hear you express yourself, you know, you actually, even though you don't realize it. Maybe you actually have a lot more knowledge about this thing. You actually realize it Maybe.

Speaker 2: 27:43

You know, yeah, just because you know, you're like, hey, this is this, you know you're explaining some of that stuff, right, right. And so you know, acknowledge that and live in that and just continue, like you said, to add more to that tool belt, right, yeah, yeah. So we don't have to know everything you know In the beginning. For my own, my own experience is like, okay, this is the little, little, tiny bits that I know. I'm going to fucking go for it.

Speaker 1: 28:16

Right, right.

Speaker 2: 28:18

And then, as the years go on, you have more conversations as you're tattooing, more people. They'll bring their aunties to their grandma.

Speaker 2: 28:26

And then they'll start talking and then they'll tell you about oh well, this is actually this, right, yeah. And then you know, sometimes for me I'll go out into the museum collections and I'll go visit those baskets. I'll go visit all of those things. And you know, beadwork Sometimes I'll visit with the beadwork. Most of the times it's with the basket. So my mom's side of the family and took up looking interior, salish stuff, but sometimes I'll visit the beadwork. You know, thinking about my dad and all that stuff, right, right. And so that's where we learn those things.

Speaker 2: 28:58

And I would say that those are those beadwork pieces are kin Like those are our relatives right, and I also tell all my students you know, it's actually our responsibility to go visit those things, because some of those things haven't visited for a hundred years. Wow, none of our people have maybe been in that specific museum to visit that specific piece right, to pick it up, to hold it, you know, to visit with it, right, mm-hmm. And so it's actually our responsibility to do those things, to visit with our kin, to visit with our relations. That are you know, held captive for most part as many of these museums.

Speaker 2: 29:37

So we gather knowledge from there. You know, we gather knowledge from books, all of those type of things and we'll learn more and more. But I would say, you know, you have a pretty good tool belt already.

Speaker 1: 29:49

Thanks, it's not enough. I need more. Yeah, definitely, I always need more.

Speaker 2: 29:55

Always need to grow and move. For sure, in conversation we were talking the other day, yesterday and you were sharing how a lady came to you and, you know, shared with you how she sees the work that you're doing, living on the people now as opposed to being just beadwork. But you're doing it by putting out on people's bodies.

Speaker 1: 30:21

Do you want to talk about that? Well, yeah, it's actually a longer story. I was tattooing in my garage and then this guy reached out to me. He wanted a Red River cart for his dad that had passed away, and so I invited him over. We met. He walked in. He had gifts for me. The first thing he said to me and I don't want to get too emotional, but the first thing he said to me was I've been waiting for you. I said what, bro? I'm a stranger. He's like I need a matey artist because you'll understand, and I'm like getting goosebumps as I tell this story because it was.

Speaker 1: 31:03

You know, I had never really had that before. Awesome guys Name's Derek, and so I did that for him. And this you know, at some stage in your career as a tattooer, you know you start to realize that, hey, maybe this is more than just ink and skin, because it did you. You are transforming people right on their skin, but you're also transforming them emotionally. Somebody will come in one way, leave another. Somebody comes in and the tattoo is almost a byproduct of the conversation you're having. Like I remember with Bunt, the tattoo was a bonus because he was so fun. I just want to hang out with him. And if, in order to hang out with him, I have to pay him to tattoo me, I was willing to do that, you know.

Speaker 1: 31:47

But yeah, derek came in and then I started drawing this design. I was teaching at the time, drawing on my prep. You know, maybe during class, I don't know, I'm not going to say one way or the other.

Speaker 2: 31:58

That can't confirm that.

Speaker 1: 32:01

And I showed it to him. But while I was doing it I was like man, this looks wintery, bro, there's, you know, like spruce trees by the river and then there's a cart there and I'm like man, this looks really wintery. But then when I gave it to him, he's like crying, starts crying, breaking down right in front of me and he said it's perfect. My dad died in wintertime, perfect. And I was like whoa, there's fucking magic in this man medicine here. And so, fast forward to this conversation we're talking about. I'm tattooing his sister, vicky. Just as potent, like they can't come from a lineage of politicians within the Metisphere. She's been a president of the Metis local in Alberta, very smart, intelligent, powerful woman I have tons of respect for. Yeah, just so happened. I got asked to be interviewed by a local TV company whatever news company and it, just, like an architect, made all that happen and then shuffled Vicky into being my client while we're tattooing. So they asked her hey, can we interview you? And she's like what are you going to ask me?

Speaker 1: 33:14

Yeah, I agree with the offensive way, but anyways, she did it. And while I'm tattooing her at the convention, there's cameras, there's lights, I'm working, they're talking. And then she said this like completely profound thing that I'd never thought about. She said well, traditionally our people, the Metis people, would adorn themselves in beautiful beadwork, and Nolan is transcending that by adorning his people in beautiful tattoos. And as I was working, I was like being moved and I was going to say fuck, yeah, but we were on TV and so I'm like, oh man, I'm just like trying to hold it together and looking at Vicky and was like whoa, it's like celebratory, but it's also burden, because now you know that you have this thing that you need to share. So you want to be faithful with that gift that you've been given and do the best you can. And just through talking with you, I realized that, becoming more aware and learning more about the history of my people, the better equipped, I'll be to deliver that appropriately.

Speaker 2: 34:45

Yeah, a few things come forward just as you're sharing, and the first one that came up was my friend Nahan, who's a clinkett ancestral skin marker practitioner.

Speaker 2: 34:57

He talks about these tattoos that are connected to our communities and our culture as permanent regalia, and so what he's saying there is that when you wear your regalia whether that's to the long house, the big house, wherever when you wear your regalia to pow, wow, all of those things, you wear it in a different way, you become a person who acts a certain way and walks a certain way, right, and so what he's saying is that when we put these permanent marks that are our permanent regalia, we have the responsibility to walk in a different way, and so that transforms us in a way to be cultural every day.

Speaker 2: 35:50

It's amazing, you remember, yeah. And then the next thing that really comes forward from what you were sharing is that reality of that transformation that happens for people. And also, I would say it's important to highlight just the thought that came forward is you were sharing that, yes, you realize you have this responsibility to share all these things, but I think that sometimes we people feel that responsibility and feel it in such a way that it's almost like injected with some you know religiosity or something, and they feel like they have to be perfect and feel like you know, we have to give everything.

Speaker 1: 36:38

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 36:39

Right, but I always like to bring forward and I say it over and over and many conversations is you know, we just have to be gentle with ourselves. Of course, we have to realize that we're human beings in this world, with our own struggles, our own darknesses. You know the things that we've been through in life and we only know what we know.

Speaker 1: 36:58

Right.

Speaker 2: 36:59

And we can only carry those things that we know. And so you know, I would just encourage you, as you move forward, to be gentle with yourself, for sure, right.

Speaker 1: 37:09

You keep telling me that yeah.

Speaker 2: 37:11

I tell that to everybody, man, I think you know I, partly because it's you know, that mantra that I give to myself, right, the mantra that I have within my own self is I have to always tell myself to be gentle. You know, part of that comes from the drive that I have, right, right, like always pushing, always going forward, always doing this stuff, yeah, and I always say like I don't get sick very often, but when I do it's real bad.

Speaker 2: 37:39

So I just had open. I just had heart surgery. Right, this is the third surgery that I had on my heart, so it's like okay, it's like okay pause. You know, calm the fuck down.

Speaker 1: 37:49

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 37:50

Relax for five months, right.

Speaker 1: 37:52

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 37:54

So I think that's because I have to be gentle on myself.

Speaker 1: 37:56

Right.

Speaker 2: 37:57

Right, and so I've always remind people that we have to be gentle on ourselves and I would say also gentle with everyone else, of course. Right, because sometimes when we realize we got to be gentle with ourselves, we got to transfer that to everyone else and calm the fuck down yeah.

Speaker 1: 38:15

You know, yeah Well, that's the thing for me. It's like, you know, like being a teacher for so long and a parent and all that stuff, it's like it's easy to tend, or not easy, but easier to tend to everyone else than to tend for yourself.

Speaker 2: 38:30

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 38:32

So I appreciate you saying that, because that's necessary. And when you're a passionate person, you know, like I was raised to never take what's not earned and never stay down and work hard, always work hard. You know, and growing up with my dad going to the bush to harvest wood, stack it, chop it then, haul it.

Speaker 1: 38:59

You know that was ingrained in me very young and now my parents messaged to me after them, teaching me that seeing my mom washing a floor with a rag on her hands and knees, they're like rest man, take it easy.

Speaker 2: 39:13

I'm like well, what are you?

Speaker 1: 39:14

telling me to do here. You know, because, like my, even me same thing. As soon as I start to slow down and rest, that's when I get sick. It's almost like you shoot a moose, but it's not like doesn't drop right away If you scare it, it'll just keep running and running and running right, yeah. It beds, and then it's like yeah, you know, then it's done.

Speaker 1: 39:40

But yeah, that's super important and I like that we went to the land, because that's where I go, you know, and that's what clears my. I guess it centers back my true north, on my inward compass, to be out there and to gain perspective. And I don't know if the creator knows or not, but the birds, the birds are the ones that bring me strength. If I see a bird and it's singing to me and say, all right, you got me man, you got me.

Speaker 1: 40:10

You know, I know you're making my path straight, I know you're with me, you know, and then I just feel like let's go so yeah, that's awesome.

Speaker 2: 40:22

See you next time. The one thing I wanted to, you know I shared a little bit with you yesterday, you know, as we were spending the day together really holding you up in the work that you're doing, because I really see it and that's one of the one things I'm like I shared. I'm trying to really highlight in this exhibition the true tribal contemporary expressions of ancestral tattoo practices. You know the longer title, right.

Speaker 1: 40:51

Right, that's right.

Speaker 2: 40:53

The work that we're doing, as you know, ancestral skin markers, you know some people would say traditional I think that's not the right word, necessarily but the work that you're doing is truly bringing that contemporary touch of who you are as an indigenous person in this, the nation state of Canada. And then also the practice. You know, the training that you had in the early days of your tattoo journey. And then, also bringing you know those memories of the beadwork those experiences as a Metis person and really melding them together.

Speaker 2: 41:34

You know it's a really cool style that I see you developing and bringing forward and it's something that's unique and different. And you know, some people do beadwork, which is beautiful in terms of tattooing, of course, but the way that you're doing it is very unique and different. So I just wanted to hold you up publicly for the work that you're doing. You know it's important to acknowledge those things you know, that we see are unique and different and powerful, because I think it really is a testament to us as indigenous people, metis people, melding those two cultures together and becoming something unique and different. Right, our own culture, our own reality.

Speaker 1: 42:16

So I just want to distinct, yeah, exactly, appreciate that.

Speaker 2: 42:19

So I just wanted to hold you up in that journey that you're taking and being true to yourself, you know, in that journey, even though it's unique and different.

Speaker 1: 42:28

Right, yeah that you know. Nothing stands out more to me in my mind than those red flowers in the bush.

Speaker 2: 42:35

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 42:35

You know they didn't look ill.

Speaker 2: 42:37

Yeah, big time they look strong. Yeah, big time.

Speaker 1: 42:40

You know, in the midst of all these calm and utter plants, they're there existing yeah. Right, and man that fires me up.

Speaker 2: 42:47

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 42:48

It fires me up because it's not just me, it's not just you.

Speaker 2: 42:51

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 42:52

They're coming, man.

Speaker 2: 42:53

Yeah, you know so.

Speaker 2: 42:56

Yeah, it's interesting when you say that, because that's one of the you know when you talk about the responsibility and you talk about the way that you picked up this work. My own story comes from understanding that you know there's a seal for Okanagan story, where the that I heard through Chayuk or Richard Armstrong, a seal storyteller, knowledge keeper, dr Jeanette Armstrong shared this story with me in my classes at UBC Okanagan and then Bill Cohen also shared it with me. In in this story, how food was given, or the four food chief story, the creator comes and asks the people to, or asks the animal people. So the animal people, of course, were all the animals who are walking around and, you know, hanging out like we do before we came here, right, and so the creator came and asked those animal people what are you going to do for the people to be? So those who are coming? And of course, in that story that was us as humans, because you know, from my understanding, us as humans aren't really that well adapted as animals in the world.

Speaker 2: 44:14

You don't have long hair, you know, so we get cold real easy. Yeah, you know we can't really run that fast, you know we can't, you know, to catch up to the bear or the goose, or whatever. We don't have sharp teeth or claws, right.

Speaker 1: 44:27

Well, some people have claws, bro. Not that sharp though.

Speaker 2: 44:33

And then you, you know, you can't, we can't gather the nutrients from the sun or we can't gather it from the roots, right?

Speaker 2: 44:41

So those root foods? So that question is what are you going to do for the people to be? And for me, that saw, you know, sat on my heart until I realized that my contribution to the people to be was this work of tattooing, ancestral skin marking. So I love how you keep saying you know they're coming right, and it's also reminds me as well as they're coming. This concept of you know walking forward as we're looking backward right. So we're making all of those decisions as we look backwards instead of looking forward, you know, which is a powerful testament to the way that we, as Indigenous people, live in the world. Instead of projecting what is the, what is going to be coming, and dreaming of that, we're actually looking backwards to see who's coming behind us and the things, like you said, setting the table so that, when they come, the table's ready for them.

Speaker 1: 45:38

Yeah, eat man, eat baby.

Speaker 2: 45:41

Yeah totally.

Speaker 1: 45:42

And like one thing, I didn't have a lot of role models. You know, I thought the world was real small. I uranium mining, or logging, that's my future. Or, you know, pump gas at the forks, you know, but it's big, you know, and so that I think I talked about it yesterday. I just kind of have this sense that you know, you know there's natural law, you know we have our plans, we have our structure, but there's a natural law. And for me I took my paddle out the water, bro, and I said let's go, just take me, man, I'll go with that current. And I know what that involves.

Speaker 1: 46:24

I know that involves rough water, I know that involves forks, I know that involves smooth water, you know and so just embracing that and saying, let's go take me, man, yeah, and like you, garner a story through your experience. There's a difference between intelligence and wisdom. And wisdom is the practical application of life.

Speaker 2: 46:46

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 46:47

And I'll tell you, I know how to lose and I've lost a lot. Yeah, but I'm carving and shaping this tool called success through that experience and if I can say, hey, what's one more loss than I know? Success is only just right there. Yeah, and if the risk is one more loss, let's go.

Speaker 2: 47:07

Yeah, you know big time, so yeah, so, as we're kind of starting to wind down to kind of the end of this conversation, you know, are there any questions that you can think of? You know anything that you'd like to explore or talk about that we haven't talked about, you know, because of course, I'm asking you questions. If you have any questions that come up that you know we can explore, I'd be totally down for that, because I think this is more of a conversation than it is an interview, right, you know? So, yeah, just giving you opportunity to bring forward anything that you felt like you wanted to explore with me.

Speaker 1: 47:51

Well, I think you know, I think I have a pretty good understanding of how leadership happens and how impact happens, but I don't know if I've heard your story as far as, like you know, we kind of touched on it briefly about how you stumbled into pursuing this, yeah, and how you feel about your legacy or your contribution, but then how you know these doors open for you to be on this level of, you know, having all this, these connections and all that stuff.

Speaker 2: 48:31

Yeah, I think the reality is is just observing, taking time and taking the opportunity to say yes. Right, and saying yes in those times where you're like, oh shit, do I have it?

Speaker 1: 48:49

You know, do I? You know who might have said last night yeah, exactly, I don't wanna be that guy man, I'll be there.

Speaker 2: 48:54

I'll be there. You know, taking those opportunities to say yes and thinking like do I know what to say? Do I know enough? You know? Cause we all have those ideas of insecurity. Of course, you know those moments of like, what do you call it?

Speaker 2: 49:12

Like, you know, imposter syndrome right, absolutely All of that type of stuff of insecurity and taking the opportunities when they come up to say like, okay, I got this, you know, like you said, like we're just gonna go, I'm gonna, we're just gonna see where that journey takes us, right. And so I think that's part of it is taking the opportunities and just saying yes. But I would also add that in my own journey, I also have come to understand that I also have a right and a responsibility to say no sometimes, of course, right. So I think that those are two big opportunities. I think part of it is just saying yes, going with the flow and learning from that journey, and I would say that it's a continual remembering of why I do what I do, because it's really easy to come to points where, you know, ego comes up. That's why I said you know, be gentle with yourself, cause you know my own ego comes up sometimes, right, and I just have to remember ah, maybe I shouldn't have said that, maybe I shouldn't have done that, but you know, reminding myself to be gentle, you know, as we go forward, and being observant, and that's why, you know, I held you up in terms of doing that work, of theorizing and thinking about the work that you're doing is just through reflection.

Speaker 2: 50:40

Sometimes I'll do something and I'm like maybe that wasn't the best way to roll out with that and so I have to think about it differently. Okay, how can I do this better next time, right? And then I would say always remember, always re-centering, cause you know you start to go off and you start going this way and then you remember that question what are you doing for the people to be? And if that direction that you're going isn't serving that question, you gotta kind of write that canoe. Do that work? You?

Speaker 1: 51:14

know, put the paddle back in the water.

Speaker 2: 51:17

You know to kind of bring yourself back on course to answer that question, right. So always re-centering back to that question is what I'm doing for the people to be right? Is the work that I'm doing gonna make their life better? Right, part of that's also realizing that that's what my family did, you know, that's what my mom and my aunties you know that's what they did is they always ask that question what are we gonna do?

Speaker 2: 51:45

You know they grew up in alcoholism, right, and all of that type of stuff, right, mm-hmm. But they all decided at one point I don't know when it was, but they all decided we're not gonna drink Nice, right, so we can bring our kids up in a household that you don't have to go pick up your dad from the bar, right, right, we're gonna raise these kids, myself and my cousins, without that alcohol improvements, right. And so they asked that question what are we gonna do for the people to be Cause? Of course, that transforms my life as a young man and a youth growing up, yeah, and so you know, taking that lesson, understanding that you know they made that choice, is an example. That's a role model for me as I move forward.

Speaker 1: 52:35

Right.

Speaker 2: 52:37

You know I can't take all of those, all of the credit for the way that I am, and the way that. I roll in the world. You know, it's my aunties. It's my mom. Yeah, it was my dad again, me too, man 100%.

Speaker 2: 52:50

You know giving me those examples. You know, of course we're not all perfect, but they were perfect examples for me to be the person that I am today Nice, and so you know that is. And then you know I talk about my auntie, Sharon McIver. You know being at her house one time during, you know, the holidays, cause we'd always go to Merritt, go back there, and I was looking in the hallway. I can remember she had her what do you call them? The certificates for her bachelor's degree and then her lawyer's certificate or I can't remember the name of it, right, it has its own name, I can't remember bachelor of law or master of law or whatever it is right. I remember looking at them as a little kid and then somebody I don't know who it was, one of the adults was like what are you doing? I was just looking at these cool certificates, right.

Speaker 2: 53:48

I'm like I want some of those, Even though I didn't know exactly what they were, but I knew that they were something important.

Speaker 2: 53:56

They represented something, and so that's kind of you know the examples that I have that I was like you know we got a fight. And then also, when I think even more, you know, you know more broadly, as I've grown up as an adult, I would say that part of it is also understanding the resilience and the power and the true power of our people. You know, you think of like I was sharing with you. You know, going to batash and seeing my great great grandfathers, you know grave, who died at the battle of batash, right, you know understanding that resistance, that it's important to stand up against things that we see as injustices, right, and so, yeah, those are all of those examples and those stories that bring me forward to doing this work and just saying yes to things you know it's dope man yeah.

Speaker 2: 55:00

Dope Any anything else come up.

Speaker 1: 55:05

No, I don't think so. I think we're good.

Speaker 2: 55:07

Yeah, cool, awesome. Well, I really appreciate you, you know, taking the time to hang out with me, also being gracious and inviting myself and to NASA to come and visit with you for a couple of days, you know, hang out at the shop, do some video you know, do some interviews, all of that type of stuff, and you know it's been amazing to get to know you a little better because you know we met what a year ago.

Speaker 1: 55:34

Yeah, we met at the Gaywalk Bloodlines.

Speaker 2: 55:39

Symposium, so it was pretty cool to be able to come and spend some more time. It was also cool to see you come to Tiamt and Ega.

Speaker 1: 55:47

What was that?

Speaker 2: 55:48

experience for you.

Speaker 1: 55:49

Man, I honestly didn't know what I got myself into.

Speaker 2: 55:54

Yeah, At first.

Speaker 1: 55:56

I wasn't going to go. I'm like man, I've never been there before. What's it going to be like? And like my experience with you guys was very brief and so I was coming alone and so, like I said, similar to you, I was just like you got to say yes, yeah, so I did. And then, when I got there, I quickly realized that this was kind of an exclusive thing where it's invite only, but I got to see some really potent people and meet people. It was kind of like, even though we were on the land, it reminded me of land type experiences where you do observe and things operate outside of your control. Like I said yesterday, I used to take my students on the land and I quickly realized that the land can organically do things that I cannot do without, like an eloquence, you can't do it.

Speaker 2: 56:59

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 57:00

You know, affirmation can't do what the land does to your soul. So when I was there I just felt like conversations were timely. The people I tattooed were like kind of like woven into my experience there. That needed to happen. You know, one day they said no music and I understood and respect why that request was made. But I said to my client I like music, I need music. So I said to the stranger sing me a song, how about?

Speaker 1: 57:36

they said it she's like what I'm like, sing me a song, because I'm crazy, sometimes I say crazy stuff. And she looked at me like I was a weirdo and she said what do you mean? Like a song like you Are my Sunshine? And I said, yeah, that's pretty good. My mom used to sing that to me and I sing that to my second-born daughter. And I said but that second verse is pretty taffy. And she says what I said well, it's a real song, there's a second verse. She didn't know that. She said no. And I said well, the other night, dear, while I lay sleeping, I dreamed I held you in my arms. When I awoke, dear, I was mistaken. So I hung my head and I cried you are my sunshine, my only sunshine. As I sang this very intimate interaction, I saw her being moved, like visibly moved.

Speaker 1: 58:49

So then when I stopped, I said well, aaron. I said I think that song was for you, and she said it was. And it was just like this, like you're in the river man. You're in the river and later that night or later, maybe a day later, whatever Gina came to me and she said oh my god, what were you doing over there? Because we all heard you and it was like we're all going to cry and it was just this magical moment and.

Speaker 2: 59:21

I'm like what the fuck is happening?

Speaker 1: 59:24

You know. So that kind of stuff just kept happening and it's like you're on the land man, You're observing, and it's satisfying your soul. So that's what that was like.

Speaker 2: 59:44

Yeah, yeah, I would say that when you share that, it actually helps me to articulate the difference that I see between the times that I've been at tattoo convention you know Western conventions, absolutely 100%.

Speaker 2: 1:00:03

And being out at Indigenous tattoo gatherings, right, and I would say that I would relate it back to the thing that you said where the fellow was like I've been waiting for you, right, because you're Metis, I need a Metis practitioner to tattoo me Because you'll know, or they will know, yeah, right. And so when we are all sitting in that tent or when we're sitting in those spaces where all of us are there from our different communities, our different cultures and our different places, but we're all doing the exact same work, yeah Right, even though it's a different person, even though maybe that person came up for a different reason than what everyone else is doing. But we all know why we're there, right, and we all know what that work is. And so you were beginning to experience that, yeah, right. And so I'm glad that we had this conversation, because it helped me to articulate, because I felt that our gatherings are different.

Speaker 2: 1:01:10

They're so different, but I didn't know how to articulate why they're different.

Speaker 1: 1:01:14

Well, can I touch on that a little bit? Yeah, totally so. When there was a couple of key things, that happened because I never met Seth and Seth organized that. Yeah, what an amazing, admirable person he is. But when he opened with a circle ceremony he says you guys are no longer visitors, your family. That's setting the table.

Speaker 2: 1:01:36

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:01:37

And on top of that you have this wakuta when that's operating, these are my kin. I've never met you, but I feel connected to you, so that's cooking. And then it was almost like you know, when we closed, like I have to say how much I admire and look up to the way that Seth is an orator you know, and he has such beautiful words which is kind of you know, goes under the radar of our people.

Speaker 1: 1:02:10

you know, because we do speak life and we do build each other up and if you dig a little deeper and if you go and experience it for yourself, you'll quickly see that that is a tremendous thing in our communities, right? But at the end I don't think you guys are there, I think you have to leave, but he was. He was releasing us and we release ourselves. We thank the sun that warms us and provides for us, and we release ourselves. We thank the water that flows and does this and does this and we release ourselves. And I was just like just you know, your feet are killing you in your back, sore because it's taking a long time which is beautiful in itself, right, yeah, big time.

Speaker 1: 1:03:00

Because it goes against our convenience. But then I had this vision you know I was telling you about yesterday. I saw this river that was in a drought and all the rocks were coming up and ragged and sharp edge rocks. And then, as he was talking, I saw this storm form and all this rain coming down and bringing that river back up right. And that's, you know, as I interpreted it.

Speaker 1: 1:03:27

I felt like, you know, we get run down and we get tired and then we become agitated and we're not gentle with ourselves and we're certainly not gentle with some people. But then, as we come back to our kin, our communities, and we have our gatherings, then that's that healing rain that falls, the kindness we have towards each other, the words that we give, how we treat each other, and then that river begins to flood again. Something like I felt like my banks were overflowing when I left that place. What a special place. And I tell all my clients man, you gotta go there, bro, you know you got. I might not remember your name, bro, but you better go there.

Speaker 1: 1:04:14

So, but that's Tyned and Aga for me and to get a glimpse of harmony. I've had a lot of glimpses of not harmony in my community, but to get a glimpse of that mandate of gentleness and respect and even to go so far as if you see somebody doing something that might not be right, you have my permission to correct them gently, Because if you're helping them then you're helping us and it's just that community-based that we are at heart. That's our yearning as indigenous people. We wanna be connected.

Speaker 1: 1:04:56

Just sometimes we don't know how you know, so we come off as that low river with sharp rocks like motherfucker, you're gonna like me?

Speaker 2: 1:05:05

you know or don't piss around, you know.

Speaker 1: 1:05:08

But yeah, that's a special place. Yeah, man.

Speaker 2: 1:05:14

Yeah, thank you for sharing that.

Speaker 2: 1:05:16

I'm glad that we were able to speak about that and it also helps to reinvigorate my own passion for those places. You know Hearing how those who are coming up, you know coming into those spaces a new, feel it and experience it and know that you know we have to keep moving forward and we have to keep bringing those forward. So, thanks for sharing that. Yeah, and I would just like to say, you know, thanks for again. You know we tried to end it once but we came back around. Thanks for you know coming and sharing with me and we'll move on to the next part of our day as we continue this journey of curatorial studio visit for the exhibition True Tribal. I'm super stoked to, you know, have it all come together and hopefully we can bring everyone together who's part of the exhibition, all of the artists from all over the world India, new Zealand, you know, down in the US and then all across Turtle Island all of us from our nations and territories and communities. Super stoked and hopefully we'll get to do this again sometime.

Speaker 1: 1:06:35

I would love that man. All right man thanks. Cheers. Thank you.

Speaker 2: 1:06:39

Hey everyone, thanks for stopping by and taking this journey with me Through this episode.

Speaker 2: 1:06:44

I hope you enjoyed it.

Speaker 2: 1:06:45

I'll just ask that you would go and subscribe, if you haven't already done so and if you have subscribed, thank you very much. I appreciate you following this journey. I just want you to remember that, no matter who you are, where you're from, what you've done or what you've been through, that you were amazing, that you were loved, and that we need you here today and going into the future so that we can transform this world for the better through our collective thoughts, actions, feelings and our compassion for each other as human beings. Head on over to next week's episode, where I talk to Natalie Standing Cloud, a salish Cherokee and Creek tattoo artist working out of Tulsa, oklahoma. In this episode, we talk about Natalie's journey from tattooing in the basement to working in a tattoo shop in Tulsa, oklahoma, and her many different paths that she has taken as an artist, model and actor, and the last thing that I will ask you is to do me a solid and share this episode with somebody that you think will enjoy it. Thanks a lot and see you next week.