Mending Spirits Through Indigenous Tattoo Traditions with Holly Nordlum
Jan 09, 2024
Dion Kaszas and Holly Nordlum
Bonus Episode # 002 As I sat down with Holly Nordlum, a voice from the heart of Kotzebue , Alaska, we found ourselves swept into the profound narrative of Indigenous tattooing and its potential to mend the fragmented spirits within our native communities. Holly, with her Inuk and Norwegian roots, unveils a world where the art of traditional tattooing transcends mere aesthetics, becoming a beacon for cultural revival and a testament to Indigenous resilience. She takes us through the emotional landscapes of her personal and communal struggles, emerging as a mentor determined to safeguard and breathe life into the ancestral practices that have long fostered unity and healing among her people.
This heartfelt conversation spans the breadth of historical wounds to the present-day triumphs in the reclamation of Indigenous heritage. Holly's story, rich in empathy and understanding, serves as a guidepost for those navigating the complex waters of cultural loss and recovery. As she casts light on the shadows of abuse and the deep-seated anti-native sentiments that persist, it becomes clear that this is not just about tattoos—it's about stitching together the fabric of a community with threads of knowledge, support, and pride. Holly's vision for Alaska and its Inuk generations is both a heartfelt rallying cry and an invitation to all listeners to acknowledge and embrace the power of their own histories.
I hope you have enjoyed this episode, and I am excited to travel the world of Indigenous tattooing with you as we visit with friends and colleagues from across the globe doing the work. This bonus interview is from my extensive archive of interviews, conversations and presentations I have recorded over the past 8 years.
Check out my tattoo work at: https://www.consumedbyink.com Instagram @dionkaszas
Buy me a Coffee at: https://ko-fi.com/transformativemarks
You can find Holly Mititquq Nordlum (Inupiaq) at: https://naniqdesign.com/
Bonus Episode # 002 As I sat down with Holly Nordlum, a voice from the heart of Kotzebue , Alaska, we found ourselves swept into the profound narrative of Indigenous tattooing and its potential to mend the fragmented spirits within our native communities. Holly, with her Inuk and Norwegian roots, unveils a world where the art of traditional tattooing transcends mere aesthetics, becoming a beacon for cultural revival and a testament to Indigenous resilience. She takes us through the emotional landscapes of her personal and communal struggles, emerging as a mentor determined to safeguard and breathe life into the ancestral practices that have long fostered unity and healing among her people.
This heartfelt conversation spans the breadth of historical wounds to the present-day triumphs in the reclamation of Indigenous heritage. Holly's story, rich in empathy and understanding, serves as a guidepost for those navigating the complex waters of cultural loss and recovery. As she casts light on the shadows of abuse and the deep-seated anti-native sentiments that persist, it becomes clear that this is not just about tattoos—it's about stitching together the fabric of a community with threads of knowledge, support, and pride. Holly's vision for Alaska and its Inuk generations is both a heartfelt rallying cry and an invitation to all listeners to acknowledge and embrace the power of their own histories.
I hope you have enjoyed this episode, and I am excited to travel the world of Indigenous tattooing with you as we visit with friends and colleagues from across the globe doing the work. This bonus interview is from my extensive archive of interviews, conversations and presentations I have recorded over the past 8 years.
Check out my tattoo work at: https://www.consumedbyink.com Instagram @dionkaszas
Buy me a Coffee at: https://ko-fi.com/transformativemarks
You can find Holly Mititquq Nordlum (Inupiaq) at: https://naniqdesign.com/
Speaker 1:
because she wasn't the only one right, that this is so common for us that it's not even a Ahhhh, but that's the stuff that I want to do. That's the work I want to do is for her, because I was that same girl and I didn't have anybody and I didn't tell anyone until I was 40. So, like, how do you, how does it change you as a person and the success in your life? Because you're just dealing with that. Yeah, so, um, yeah, that's the work I want to do and that's the healing I want to get to.
Speaker 2:
I've helped, supported and trained practitioners and tattoo artists here on Turtle Island. In this podcast, I sit down with Indigenous tattoo artists, cultural tattoo practitioners and ancestral skin markers from across the globe, bringing you behind the scenes of this powerful, transformative and spiritual work.
Speaker 1:
I'm Holly Nordlum, originally from Katabio, alaska, above the Arctic Circle, and traditional tattooer. My grandparents on my mother's side are Annie and John Schaefer and on my father's side Lillian and Lester Nordlum, and they're of Norwegian descent. So there's my mix my mom's side Inok and my dad's side Norwegian.
Speaker 2:
So people want to reach out to you. Where can they find you?
Speaker 1:
I'm all over. Yeah, yeah, hollywood, if she could, on Instagram, but Holly Nordlum on Facebook and I'm all over the place. Just a Google search will get my website, and O-R-D-L-U-M is my last name, which I've been struggling with. Maybe I shouldn't even use it. That's very Norwegian, right.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, and I think about that because my last name is Hungarian, so for me it's also like honoring all of who we are. So part of that is and my interviews are usually just conversations focused around a few questions but part of that, I think, is not bifurcating our identity, because that's part of who we are. We try to fragment ourselves, then that fragments our psychology fragment.
Speaker 1:
Exactly. And if we can't, we have to live in a duality, and not only, I think, exacerbates the issue. So, yeah, I'm sticking with my also, like when you grow up in the village, you work on your identity, your PR, from age 10 on and I've worked really hard on it, so I'm not going to let that go for name change. That was a lot, not for no man, not for no society.
Speaker 2:
So what got you into the work that you're doing in terms of the revival work? Oh, yeah.
Speaker 1:
So I think, being I was an artist for almost 20 years and I was doing artwork all kinds, I kind of do multimedia stuff. But calling out the issues in our community worldwide, well, at first I started in R little neck of the woods, northern Alaska, and then realized it's more, and the more you travel, the more you realize any an indigenous population is suffering, and suffering like we are, and the stories of colonization are so similar and everything's so similar that then we started traveling just with ICC, inuit Circumpolar Council and reaching all in in Canada, greenland, alaska and Russia, right. So then we started doing that. I had worked with ICC as a teenager so I knew it was out there, and then I was lucky enough that a good friend of mine became the president of ICC International, so that has been a lovely connection for me to all Inuk and how I got to Greenland.
Speaker 1:
But calling out the issues in our communities, I felt like, and processing that pain in myself as an artist, eventually I started to feel like I'm not doing enough positive. So in the last five years I've just been trying to doing things that celebrate us as people, as we were saying last night about yeah, we are marginalized and yes, there is oppression and yes, there's all this bad stuff we are, that we are the products of cultural genocide, that now I just wanted to do something more positive and uplifting because we are suffering and tattooing. In our early discussions with funders I had hoped it would bring this healing. I have a really bad Western tattoos and I was like even that was healing Bringing.
Speaker 1:
Inflicting pain on someone can be so cathartic in the internal struggle that we have, and I'd hope that's what we would do from then on for our Native women and then eventually our Native men, and so far it's been so rewarding. I almost feel like you're put in this path and it was like it's been a roller coaster of me, just like flowing with it, and that often speaks to what was meant to be. So I kind of love that. That was the journey that got me tattooing. I wish, as I was saying, that my body would keep up with my like get up and go, but I'm 47 this year and that's getting a little tough on my body, so I just have to be more cognizant of and make sure I bring apprentices with so that I'm continuing the cycle and it doesn't disappear again for us.
Speaker 2:
So you touched on it a little bit. We had a little bit of a conversation about it last night, and one of the things that I've been really thinking a lot about is this idea of tattoo medicine, right, and so I wonder if you know, is there anything that you feel comfortable sharing in terms of for lack of a better term historical tattooing for your communities?
Speaker 1:
Yeah.
Speaker 2:
In terms of healing.
Speaker 1:
Yeah.
Speaker 2:
And then, how is that manifesting today? Or is it different? Or you know what comes up for you when I say that.
Speaker 1:
Right, I'm a believer. I'm a believer it can be so healing, I think traditionally. I mean, if you just look at the tattoo patterns, like the women tattoos on the breasts, to me that speaks right to medicine. As a mother, like I'm like, oh, she got my cytos they're trying to cure it with, like either bloodletting or you know they're trying to fix the things. But even the celebration of a woman's marker in her life is fixing the things Right, like it's healing. So I'm all about it.
Speaker 1:
I think at Western medicine, because of whatever the politics, insurance, pharmacy conglomerates that it does a disservice and not recognizing the spiritual aspect of healing which can be even more powerful. And it's not like I'm anti Western medicine, I just think complimentary. I just took this trip to know when it was funded by the for indigenous peoples day. It was funded by Norton Sound Health, which is the hospital up there, and I feel like that was a big step in the direction we want to go to partner with as tribal healers, all of us, and not just tattooing but like plants and medicine, touch, massage, traditional massage, touching that that can all compliment Western medicine and really do some soul healing.
Speaker 1:
Because I think when Western medicine can hardly deny that. That's what breaks people, yeah, and it's a constant broken soul, broken heart. And how we can integrate holistic healing. I've partnered with amazing native physicians who have now turned tribal. So Western physicians who are native and now have gone tribal and I love that story so much because they have that experience of Western medicine Right, and they've been doing 20 years of study so they can practice and then, like this isn't working. We can't holistically heal this person without touching on the root cause, which is the spirit. Yeah.
Speaker 2:
It's very interesting, I always. You know another thing especially, you know having a lot of female to spirit students, the whole conversation around you know appropriate touch.
Speaker 1:
Yes, yes, yes.
Speaker 2:
Not only that, but like taking control of your body and that identifies. My friend Amy says, you know, makes us visible.
Speaker 1:
Yeah. You know, because she's very fair and right. You know, I'm very fair People look at you.
Speaker 2:
If they can see something other than the native person, they'll see that exactly. Right, and so she. You know, we just skin stitched your chin.
Speaker 1:
Oh, nice, good for you, cause I'm worried about that Cause skin stitching can be a little bit unpredictable. So I haven't done a whole chin yet or a face. I don't work on it, you got it.
Speaker 2:
I'll get there, I'll get there.
Speaker 1:
Also, I have to find the right girl. She has to be woke like.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, and that's one of the things you know. I've done a few little like up here with the skin stitched. Yeah me too Full. Yeah, oh, good for you, thank you. If it's anybody, yeah, it's gonna be her yeah, it's quite an honor that she asked exactly.
Speaker 1:
I love that.
Speaker 2:
I love when people come to you with their yeah, and it's like, and also because I am, but you know, a man yeah, right yeah, it's quite an honor to.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, give that gift well, I wonder that too, like it's. So it's so great. As a man, I would love to have, like a man, a young man, come to us and want to do the piercing, the traditional piercings and stuff, because I would love to offer that to our men. This the pride. It's so interesting with our man because our women were. I lined up to get tovlogons, to give tovlogons, to give the chin tattoo, but the men have a real hard time with the face.
Speaker 2:
American in oak men have a real hard time with the face and I don't know that, you know, I always think it's like kind of that laugh, that sacredness of the face, and you know, part of that is, you know, tattooing the face is going against those Western body norms exactly?
Speaker 1:
and why is women? You think we'd be more resistant? Yeah, well, and some of us are to be fair, but yeah, I just feel like I wish I could get more of our men. I'm getting close, I'm picking up the right men and they will start the ball rolling.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, and I think there's there's a lot of stuff too, you know, in terms of when I think about, you know, our Western constructions of masculinity, yes, those types of yes, yes, toxic?
Speaker 1:
yes, especially in terms of sexuality and pornography emotion, even showing emotion, jeez louise, yeah, I know, yeah, that whole you know it makes me very sad for a lot of our men yes yes, just because we don't have that ability to find who we are, and you know so.
Speaker 2:
And then some of us who are, you know, for lack of a better term you know, in touch with our femininity, our ability to share, you know right who you know how we're feeling about those things. They it's unsafe in a lot of ways right, but for me it's easier just because.
Speaker 1:
I'm a big, yeah, I know. So, like nice, to be a big dude and be open like that, I just it's, it's, it's interesting as a little in a woman, right, because already we're culturally kind of giving, yeah, right, mothering of everyone. So to walk around, I've kind of mastered walking, like this tour season in Alaska, we get, you know, millions of people and it's kind of made me, I've got a harder shell. Yeah, you just have to, otherwise you'd be hurt at every Costco visit or every parking lot interaction and they just don't have time for that negativity. It used to hurt me and I used to have to process no, I'm not even. Yeah, I just move on.
Speaker 1:
And yeah, that first realization, when it wasn't about me, when it in Oakman was following me and saying he was behind me. I was at the native hospital, which is our place, and he's my mom's agent. He was following behind me. Who do you think you are? You, you know, I in the elevator, after I the doors closed, I cried and then I realized it wasn't about me at all. Now, poor fucker, like poor guy, had to go through so much and it's so, so much pain, so it's hard to see someone who who comes from such privilege, right he? I didn't have to go through anti in-back stuff, except in my own little family my dad, yeah, whatever, like. In comparison, I wasn't sent off to boarding school, except by choice. You know, there's just a very different. So I wish I had had not had that knowledge and been able to turn and say I love you and I'm sorry yeah, and I think also too.
Speaker 2:
In those circumstances I would say it's, that's not your labor, right either, right, right but I didn't have to be so dismissive either.
Speaker 1:
I could just like, yeah, just just a gesture would have been enough to yeah, I just support yeah, it's support.
Speaker 2:
It's okay, I hear you yeah yeah, for sure, yeah, I guess we talked about it a little bit and you know, it's. It's a kind of a deeper level of what we were talking about in terms of healing, and I would just ask you know, when you think about that, that idea of healing, what are the things that you see we're healing from?
Speaker 1:
oh, well, I'm sure you know. But Well, colonization, the loss of everything, not just culture, not just roles, not just sexuality, not just education, one day we're living one way, they take our kids away, and the next day we're living another way, right that, that harsh Reality of one life and then another life, and then the, the dual Roles we play in those cultures as we we grow. That can be painful, also as native women and I don't know what the statistics are in Canada, I just assume they are the same. But 90% of us in Alaska are sexually abused in some way, as adults, as children, as infants. There is abuse happening, physical, sexual, verbal. I would say a hundred percent of us suffer from some kind of abuse and and those Abuses directed at us. That's not historical trauma which we're carrying, but that's right here and now, that abuse is happening right here and now. That that can be painful and stunt so much growth and turn. And then you turn to self-medication Because of those issues, because the pain is so deep. Those things are the things I I talk about and that's what I'm hoping we're healing from.
Speaker 1:
I had a young girl Come to me for her first tattoo and it was fun. Right, it was fun, until I said that's a statistic. And and she said, um, I mean, she just broke down and she'd never shared the story of her abuse, which had just happened, like six months before, and she had no, she'd never told anyone. And just to be there to listen and to love and to tell her she's not alone, that that had nothing to do with her. Right, she's six, she's 17 when I saw her, so she's a little young, but I knew there was a lot there that she was dealing with and she I knew she was also having Suicidal thoughts. So when we did a small tattoo for her, I just wanted her to know that I was there for her, that she don't have to tell everybody else. It's okay that you can just tell me, I'll forget it, like I, I, I can just be with it Because she wasn't doing one right, that this is so common for us that it's not even a.
Speaker 1:
But that's the stuff that that I want to do. That's the work I want to do is for her, because I was that same girl and I didn't have anybody and I didn't tell anyone until I was 40. So like, how do you, how does it change you as a person and the success in your life, because you're just dealing with that. Yeah, so, yeah, that's the work I want to do and that's the healing I want to get to. And often they come in and we talk boys first, right, we, he, he, he, he. And then, before we know it, we're crying and they're spilling their guts and I.
Speaker 1:
That's the real work, that's the stuff that makes me proud of what I'm doing and I often, if they're not ready, to tell me when you're ready, turn to another native girl. Yeah, you don't have to use me. Yeah, right, that we can be there for each other and I think that's the way we heal as a community is to be there for each other, talk to each other and, like you say, rise up, yeah, yeah, and that's all we can do.
Speaker 2:
I would say, you know uh. Thank you for your courage.
Speaker 1:
Oh, please you as well. You have a hard time.
Speaker 2:
You know, I have to just honor the courage that you thank you Just share those things and yes in that subjective reality of you know, this is us. Yes, right, right not to put it out there, but to own it. Yes, right oh yeah, just Holding you up.
Speaker 1:
Thank you. Thank you, you too, and it's so lovely to see you again.
Speaker 2:
I'm planning then, and then I would say you know, and if, if there's anything you know I can do me too, me too. Just let me know.
Speaker 1:
Me too. I think together we can be more, we can do more. Yeah, we can make. I think, as a team, that we can make the outside world see more. Yeah, definitely. I have a hard time in Alaska. It's a red state right and it's like retired military mostly and that's real hard for me and there's a lot of anti-native propaganda, talk, whispering Attitude and I really want to change how we we do that and any way I can do that.
Speaker 2:
So you know we we talked a little bit about. You know the challenges with the, the, the work that we do in terms of our body. Yeah, you know, you know, but we also carry not only a physical burden but, you know, a mental right with spiritual. Are there any things that you do that you would feel comfortable sharing to Deal with that?
Speaker 1:
You know how do you?
Speaker 2:
work through that. How do you carry that burden?
Speaker 1:
Well, first I want to acknowledge that I'm obviously not doing that great of a job, even though I say I am. I Feel physically and I think a lot of that has is up here and then transforms to my body. I Joke about being old, but I think it's just a lot of work. It's a lot of work, so I need to get better at that. But fortifying, fortifying before Every session I I burn sage, I'm doing every like the little things.
Speaker 1:
I use CBD oil, I use traditional, not oils. I use traditional plants and medicine For my shoulder and my back, and then I use ergonomic as much as I can in my own studio. But but there is definitely some fortification that I could and still be an effective counselor, right. So I I'm looking at more training for Sarah, I and Jamie in those with tribal healers, so that we're doing the work, but being Cognizant of our own bodies because, like Sarah, she'll go five, six hours and that's just treacherous to your body, hunched over a tattoo, even if you're ergonomic. It's a lot of work and I don't want Her to be where I am in five years and be sorry she didn't Was. It wasn't more fortified, wasn't more cognizant and Educated about how to protect herself. I do feel like it's what I can give, and I just give yeah and and that's okay for right now.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, we're in that place exactly but we have to train those who are coming.
Speaker 1:
Exactly and that's something else is our apprentices, when we find them and we start. That's what I'll work on. I mean, I can't we tell Jodi gets here, so we can talk about her too, because she's getting close to my age and I want her to be careful, because it can be hard and I think we can learn from each other too when we start working. Oh, that's a great idea, right?
Speaker 2:
Yeah, that's what I always do whenever I am like yeah, and I do.
Speaker 1:
I'm looking at it as a I mean, I still come. I was raised in the restaurant system and thrived in the restaurant system, so I fight that a lot like it's okay, oh, they to be hippie, trippy or more spiritual than Then you were raised, it's okay. So I still, I'm still working on that. It's a process. I definitely yeah.
Speaker 2:
When you, when you think about, you know, because part of this is about archive. You know, some of some of this stuff obviously won't get used, but we will archive it so that the coming generations will have access you know. So, when you think about the coming generations, you know and this is a very general broad, doesn't have to do anything with tattooing what is the message you want to send to those who are, you know, the people to be?
Speaker 1:
Right, so we were talking this morning about? Well, I was talking this morning about what my kids look like and those are the Inuk men of the future, right? These one, fourth, one, eighth Inuks. But I have said this to people who approach me about questions about their ancestry right, I did the DNA test and it turns out I'm Inuk.
Speaker 1:
What I really am trying to get across to the next generation is that it is our responsibility to keep this alive.
Speaker 1:
Our ancestors survived, our grandparents survived and our parents survived so that we could take this on as a people, like we have a responsibility to them and they would want us to, because I want them. If you think, like I was saying this morning about, we are only the product of our ancestors, I want the next generation to know who they are and to celebrate it and to keep it alive, because if they're not doing it and it's gone right, unless all of us are putting the education into our children, it will be gone. So that would be my biggest message to the next generation there's no hamsis, you are Inuk and that you have a responsibility to me, my mom, her and mom and all the atatas, the grandfathers before us, to celebrate that part of you, because the other part is being very nicely secured. The western part, everybody's living it. But the inner part, it is our responsibility. And if you don't know, go find out, be confident enough. And it's hard because we all come from abuse, just to try.
Speaker 2:
Hey listeners, thank you for listening. I hope you enjoyed this episode. I just want you to remember that, no matter who you are, where you're from, what you've been through, what you've done, that you are amazing and beautiful and I'm excited to see you next week. If you haven't already subscribed, please go and do so, and if you have subscribed, I appreciate you following the Transformer of Marks podcast, and the last thing that I will ask you is to do me a solid and share this episode with somebody that you think will enjoy it. Thanks a lot and see you next week.