Inking Identity: The Journey of Filipino Tattoo Revival and Cultural Heritage with Elle Festin

Bonus episode # 006 Have you ever considered the stories etched on one's skin? This episode, I'm joined by our guest L Festin from the Four Waves tribe, as we unravel the profound narratives behind the resurgence of Filipino tattoo traditions. Listen to Festin's candid story, transitioning from a past filled with gang tattoos to using ink as a vessel for cultural revival and unity among those of mixed heritage. As we discuss, tattoos emerge as a living canvas, not merely for artistic display but as a deep-seated emblem of one's lineage and community—a testament to the ties that bind us to our ancestors and each other.

Embarking on a personal quest for identity can be as intricate as the patterns adorning one's skin. Elle shares the emotional odyssey of tracing the Polynesian roots, a path strewn with financial hurdles and the frustration of chasing whispers of the past through old magazines and books. The episode captures the essence of tattoos as a key to unlocking hidden connections, a narrative interwoven with shared memories and the support of the Hawaiian Polynesian community. Our discussion showcases tattoos as storytellers, with the power to fortify relationships and honor heritage in an era where cultural practices can be misunderstood or exploited.

In the spirit of cultural preservation, we shine a light on the collective efforts to research and sustain the integrity of traditional tattooing. The spotlight falls on community support, including the role of Lars Krutak, whose writings kindled a renewed interest in Filipino heritage. We navigate the path of learning and inspiration that leads from being a tattoo enthusiast to becoming a cultural torchbearer. Tune in to find out how tattoos offer a source of pride and inspiration, serving as a bridge from our past to the present, and encouraging others on their journeys of self-discovery and
 cultural awakening.

I hope you have enjoyed this episode, and I am excited to travel the world of Indigenous tattooing with you as we visit with friends and colleagues from across the globe doing the work. This bonus interview is from my extensive archive of interviews, conversations and presentations I have recorded over the past 8 years. 

You can check out Elle and the Mark of the Four Waves @

https://www.spiritualjourneytattoo.com/elle
Instagram @spiritualjourneytattoo

Check out my tattoo work at:
https://www.consumedbyink.com
Instagram @dionkaszas

Buy me a Coffee at:
https://ko-fi.com/transformativemarks

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

I don't know who it was, like ancestors maybe or whatever, but they were just placing blocks after blocks, me not knowing where I'm stepping, but it was just nice flat road and I just kept going and going. Next thing, you know the guys I was just excited to share things with for actually walking the same path.

Speaker 2: 0:19

Now, we were. The transformative marks podcast explores how indigenous tattoo artists, cultural tattoo Practitioners and ancestral skin markers transform this world for the better, dot by dot, line by line and stitch by stitch. My name is Dion Casas. I'm a Hungarian, matey and intercop look professional tattoo artist and ancestral skin marketer. I started the work of reviving my ancestral Intlacop look skin marking practice over a decade ago. I've helped, supported and trained practitioners and tattoo artists here on Turtle Island. In this podcast, I sit down with indigenous tattoo artists, cultural tattoo practitioners and ancestral skin markers from across the globe, bringing you behind the scenes of this powerful, transformative and spiritual work my name is L Fustin and I'm part of marketer four waves tribe and I'm one of the founders.

Speaker 1: 1:15

There's ten of us and that's that's about it. I think that's yeah, that's something.

Speaker 2: 1:22

So you mentioned the, the four waves tribe. Can you tell me more about that?

Speaker 1: 1:30

Yeah, the four waves. Basically it's a revival that we we did, like Most, 18 years ago and it's focuses to revive traditional type two tribals for the Philippines. It's to gain identity again in some sense. In the beginning of all the research and everything, the most covered group and tribe in the Philippines was the Kalinga and I was very inspired by their tattoos and everything. So I wanted to find out more about Finding, just in general, filipino cultures as an as a nation.

Speaker 1: 2:11

You know from different tribes here and there what patterns mean what. So maybe you know, even though this person from a certain tribe if that meaning applies to you know that person's persona. Because in the Philippines now, like imagine if A person from a different island it has a baby with another person from a different tribe or clan, that baby is half of those, both of those cultures. So Nowadays a lot of people political stuff when you're wearing a tattoo, they they put that in a category. We're like, oh, you're trying to be this and this and that, when really it's contemporary now because the person's mix. So they're representing both cultures but they pick which one would look familiar to the eye.

Speaker 1: 3:04

You know, if the Kalinga tattoos are published more and it's defined as a Filipino tattoo and that means, uh, what like, if you do like Tradition, uh, tribals that are not familiar to the public, like the Kalinga one, and they wouldn't even think that's Filipino. So if a person's mix and he decides to get a chat log, which is a chest tattoo, but the patterns mean his, you know, aside of the family, his other side of the family, then you can't hate him for that. You know he just wants it to be recognized as Filipino, but the patterns speak of his storyline. Did I swerve?

Speaker 2: 3:46

No, that was good Um. He said um it is. Wearing the tattoo is a way of Regaining Identity.

Speaker 1: 4:00

Yes.

Speaker 2: 4:01

Could you tell me more about that?

Speaker 1: 4:04

Oh, people get caught up like nowadays, society in general, like civilization in general today, you know they're so caught up in trends so people lose their identity because everything's beautiful, like, oh you know, for instance, since age, asian culture, you know, and Like meditation, indian culture, yoga, so many people are so inspired and have choices because of technology, computer, they could just gain access to one and want to practice that because it fits their their, the soul, the personality. So some people get lost nowadays, you know. I mean so basically being in America or in general, like different societies, you know, that are influenced by a certain like a calling, you know, colonizer or whatever. They they lose that. They say that's uh, they don't know what seed they grew from. They don't know what seed they grew from, you know, I mean they see the sun because they're the leaves on top of that tree. But what's, what did I start from? You know, like, what seed did I sprout from?

Speaker 1: 5:14

You know they're not even known to, because you know how a tree just drops fruit on the floor. They're, they have the knowledge because they're dropping it on the floor. Now, in society that's what they do they drop it on the floor, not knowing. Hey, I had that knowledge right there. I didn't pay attention. I paid attention to getting so high up there in the sky to see the sun that I didn't pay attention. Right next to me there's a ripe fruit, you know, ready to be planted. So they just drop it and whoever catches that, or ever waters that, that, anything that fell in there, hey, they're in the revival movement, you know, like, like a gardener, I guess I don't know, cool, yeah.

Speaker 2: 5:58

So when did you start tattooing and what got you into it, and maybe make a distinction between Did you start tattooing like a western and, you know, like a formal apprenticeship, or and then did you move into this revival movement. What was that relationship? I?

Speaker 1: 6:16

wasn't. I wasn't into tattoos. There's too many growing up. There was too many gang, you know, affiliation and all my friends would get tattooed gang tattoos and with hey, it was ugly. You know the tattoos are ugly, gang tattoos or whatever, and they're doing too many um, you know, like drugs and all that stuff, right. So I was more like you know. I want to get away from that. Because you're in that neighborhood, you can't help but be like, you know. So I'll try to get away from that and try to change my life for the better. I'll get away from tattoos and didn't even want to be tattooed or anything.

Speaker 1: 7:02

Then one day it was the Polynesian Renaissance, like revival. I had a gig to go to hawaii and I met a very inspiring brother like uh poeno and isiah, and there they were part of the you know the pioneers, like the second generation pioneers and the the Polynesian Renaissance, because the the first ones were like Daotie, a bunch of his colleagues and and then the persons that look up to them met me in hawaii and At first he was basically Basically talking to me like what are you, you know, like? And of course, in california, you know, if you ask the Filipino, that they'll be proud to say, hey, I'm Filipino. Why, what's up, right. And so he told me that. And in hawaii, and I go, I'm Filipino. And he's like that's good, you said that because the Filipino's over here, I don't think they're Filipino. Now I'm thinking like no, that's not the truth. They should be, probably their culture or whatever. And then he said go to my shop, check it out, right. So I go to the shop.

Speaker 1: 8:15

Everyone that came in it's as Filipino would go. I'm just this and that and a little bit of you know. And they look like my uncle. You know what I mean. They look exactly like my uncle. They look like pure Filipino. Maybe skip the generation, maybe they are half or you know mix and stuff. But why always saying just this much you know? I mean when they could just represent the whole culture. But yeah, I saw. I don't know what it was, but I saw, like the general thing that everyone's losing themselves From you know, like imagine the guys that are into video games. They lose themselves so much in society that they're like what a home in the couch, not even seeing animals jump around, fly or whatever.

Speaker 1: 9:03

So he was telling me about the tattoos and I was into graffiti and and, uh, poetry. So when he explained to this, like to me, imagine me not seeing like Patterns, yeah, geometrical patterns I was uneducated about it. So when, what do you call this? When I saw what he had, it was too exotic for me. So I'm like, like, what are those?

Speaker 1: 9:32

Like, you know, to me, I see letters, you know, I see like Dragons from my gangster friend, you know dragons, old English, and all those you know, like what's related, gang related, and everything. And um, to see patterns. I'm like, uh, what is that? So I asked them, you know, I go Me not knowing that he planted a seed already about, like me not knowing what's up it did, because I asked them what it, you know what is that.

Speaker 1: 10:05

So he goes, oh, this is this, this and this is that he explained. I was like, wow, that's like poetry, I'll see it, you know. Like. And he's like, yeah, you know, this is my culture. And he start counting in numbers and then he sags and and it's like do do you recognize the other words? And I go, yeah, you're speaking a Filipino dialect, right? And he's like, no, that's the he's in.

Speaker 1: 10:29

See, you see, like you know, they travel from Southeast Asia to what he call this to the South Pacific. You know what I mean. And Like they would trade everywhere. I mean the Pacific Rim, you know they would. They would probably Taiwan. They went to Japan, I'm pretty sure. Like Everyone traded, everyone has similar mythology etc. But To get to the point, I went on the tangent but he showed me that it was like poetry on scan.

Speaker 1: 11:03

That got me more interested, because graffiti is like abstract to me. That was abstract, I've never seen it before and the in-depth meaning of it too was very poetic and touching. You know what I mean. It gets here like oh, oh, like what is that? You know what I mean. And then after that, like he goes, mean, not knowing what's up, I just go, I want exactly like your tattoo. You know I want to copy that exactly because in society today, like everyone could wear the same clothes. Oh, I like your jeans, I like your shirt. Man, would you buy it Right? So this one, I was thinking like Same as society. And where'd you get that tattoo? You know I want exactly that one.

Speaker 1: 11:47

And he's like what are you stupid? He tell me like, are you stupid? I was just telling you there are cultures the same, you know if it's the same, expressing, you know, our tradition via tattoo, storytelling, dance, you know, that means we're all related, that means your people had tattoos long time ago, right? And I was like, hmm, you know, because in Philippines if you're tattooed you're part of like a gang, you know, like like mafia stuff. So I was kind of like there's no such thing, only the ones in prison do that shit, you know. Oh, so yeah, yeah, so I already called it. So I didn't believe him. And then he's like no, trust me, yeah, just just look around when you're free or whatever. So I go to back to the, to California, and you know I, he planted that seed.

Speaker 1: 12:44

So sometimes they're going to internet and that's when there's no Google. I mean, google was still starting, maybe, you know, this is a long time ago. And what topic should you type? I mean, you know, so I would put Filipino tattoos and what will come up is like Japanese tattoos, you know, or Chinese writing, you know, or All kinds of stuff. So I'm like there's no such thing, you know.

Speaker 1: 13:09

But one thing stuck to me. He said Our culture in general and general never had writing before writing even involved. To like it was like petroglyphs, you know, and it evolved to like what that petroglyph meant, what that character, that stick figure Met to that culture. It became a word. You know that's a letter before. So he said ours didn't evolve or morph to that, not say advanced, but to in in that path. So we expressed it with. You know this, because it's personal to us, like only one in your village or only the whole village can read you, not someone else out there, because this is your heirloom, this is your, your personal stuff, like your personal space. So, and when was I?

Speaker 2: 14:06

You were saying that he planted that seed. You came back to California and what happened from when you came back from there and you found this idea of Poetry on skin. How did that then transfer to you? Because you said you Shied away from tattooing. Yeah and then how did that seed be implanted? How did that transfer you to then changing to be to get tattooed and then be a tattoo and tattooing yourself?

Speaker 1: 14:39

It was just aspiring, I mean, like they were in the midst of, you know, like a great Polynesian Renaissance and like, if he said he was related to us. You know, I wanted to be something, a part of like Something very deep, you know, at least, even if I didn't believe we were related to the Polynesian, at least I wanted to be part of that support, you know, and I accidentally, through Him, pushing me in some sense not to the point like a every day you got to do your homework, it was more of like I want to find the relation. You know, I mean, why is he so convinced we're related? Maybe it was he. He well, he jokingly, you know, like fueled it and I was more curious about it. So it wasn't like more homework to me. If it was homework I wouldn't do it you know.

Speaker 1: 15:41

So it fueled the, the curiosity and the fact that, wow, there's this, a, a culture trying to revitalize you know something. That's great, I want to support it. And I accidentally like run into a National Geographic like 1912, and the first interesting thing on there it says Philippine headhunters right, and I'm like I never heard of that before and it's 1912 and I saw it in what? 1995. So I'm like well, how come I never seen this in books? Or they never led us to the church or whoever never showed it in books? You know, because they're ashamed of the past and Most likely it's probably a church or just the influence of the church, that society just embedded in the whole idea of like hey, don't look at the past, look at the future, you know.

Speaker 1: 16:42

And and Saxon Lee looked at that book because the interesting title. I looked through it and I see the Kalinga's People with the tattoos and so beautiful. At first I was like this can't be. I looked at it, I saw tattoos after tattoos and I opened and again the title and I looked at the page and the table of content if it matched the thing and I like this guy is right. You know, I'm like what that we're, we're fucking really into them, wow. And then I look at them, I'm like, wow, why this little tall, though? No, but I look at that, I noticed the similarities. I mean, like you know, I'm Artists, like I draw and everything and do graph or whatever, but you could see and recognize your geometric patterns that are so similar to each other. So that's when I wanted to, you know, dissect it. Why did they place certain patterns on this side and compare it to the Polynesian one, like, why is it that way?

Speaker 1: 17:49

Because, and then and your computer never helped then, you know, I had to go to every library everywhere and hoping To find something. Go on eBay, go on a books, amazon, just go anywhere that they sell books. And I make sure that to cover, like, I had a list of two pages of different keywords how to find a secret book or something To you know, to make me knowledgeable of what's going on it. To me it was just like a the steam is there. You know I'm on fire, but it's cold outside, so you create steam and you can't see in those windows, man. So I'm there, I know I'm there, so you know the fuel it's fueling me. So kept searching and searching and With a key thing trying to find books.

Speaker 1: 18:42

But book after book, I was getting broke, you know, and what sucks sometimes is I can't believe I would celebrate with, like what two-page worth of description. There's no patterns, so by a book and the descriptions like it's a circular pattern. So, yeah, buying all these books was, like you know, was getting frustrating, because you, you just want it right there and then you know, it's like a, the mental of a colonized people. Basically, you know, oh, the land is beautiful. You know, oh, there's plenty of trees, there's plenty of water. I want that. You know they come in there and they get it. You know what I mean. To me it made it more. How do you say that, like I tracked through the woods and found my? You know, the force is dark, you don't know how to survive, but you gotta, it feels like you're gonna here's. How do you say that, like you're, I don't know, it seems like I needed something, like I was thirsty and stuff. You know I need to find the river.

Speaker 1: 19:53

So, even though I was dry, my pockets were dry I just kept like buying books and Would read it. Sometimes I wouldn't even finish the book because I skimmed through it and, okay, it's leading me to something. You know. You read the myth, the legend, and you start to realize Doesn't talk about no patterns, doesn't talk about this. So after a while I just read the whole book and at least I have a base. You know, if I do see the tattoos, it'll relate to the dance I studied, or the myth I studied, or the basket that I studied, the weaving that I studied. You know, why are they so obsessed with Certain patterns in their weaving, their pottery, their you know their dance and Carvings, or whatever? Why are they so obsessed with that? Is it our dozer tattoos? But I didn't want to jump to sit, you know dang, because you know you want reference. So I I basically just Kept going and this became broke, you know it's. But Every time I go to Hawaii to, because I used to be a fashion consultant, so I would get a gig and go to Hawaii again.

Speaker 1: 21:14

The brothers over there, my Asian brothers over there was just, and my Tongan brother, isaiah, very inspiring guy, he, he, basic. They basically, you know, joking around like oh, did you find yourself? Yeah, you know, like it's fucking with you and stuff and everything. And I'm like, yeah, yeah, whatever, man, you know, I know why I'm a badass, you know, joking around stuff like that. And they're like no, really, you know, did you find the link? And I go, yeah, you know, I looked at the language thing or similar people.

Speaker 1: 21:46

But did you find your markings? And I'm like you know, I couldn't say anything. They're like and I would always ask for tattoo. Just tattoo me, man, you know, because I want to be a supporter of that. So I don't care if I got palm Asian tattoos, I don't, I didn't care, you know, it's just the fact that people is, it's very inspiring, you know, like they're what they were doing, not knowing we have it too.

Speaker 1: 22:07

So I told them about the book and I showed them and everything and they were like oh, it looks like this pattern. They were saying all the meanings of the patterns, right, but he said the catch was he goes, yeah, he goes yeah, but it's not ours, it's yours. So ours mean that those kind of pattern mean are like you know there's, but what's yours? And I go how am I gonna find that? Sometimes it's a description, sometimes it's not even drawings. You know it's like, yeah, but you said you found patterns off like this and that you want that tattooed and I was thinking, ah, but it's, it's like getting well. Nowadays, now that I think about it, it's like getting a Louis Vuitton on it. You know, I mean those markings because you find it neat, right. So I was like, you know, maybe, maybe I should put deeper than, because I mean that those little teasing basically Got me to where I'm at right now because I want to really find it.

Speaker 1: 23:16

I just Go and restating everything and next thing, you know, like born I don't know how to explain it man, like you know, like a Filipino that's a immigrant that came to the States want to want to blend in. That's, that's all they want to do is always blend in, because they hear so much about racism, you know, and we're already brown, we look Asian, we look like islanders, pacific Islanders, we look Indian, like you know, from India, and Indian, native American too. Like there's so many different looks on a Filipino that you know they could totally blend in. You know, some look more African-American too. So I started looking at that too. What we're come? Confusing culture, because you can find us Everywhere, all over the States, but you don't know who rich one or who we are right. So I'm like we're really lost.

Speaker 1: 24:18

So they let me discover that Filipinos are really lost about things and I start realizing too that just society in general makes you lost because they give you abundance of you know you're spoiled, you know. I mean like, imagine if Somebody, a kid that never tasted something you know outside of things kids they keep beating in McDonald's or something they were he wouldn't know what's outside, what kind of other food it's like, could feed them better and make them healthy Not the junk, not just the junk food you know and make them healthier. So me, I was just Looking for the right food, basically, and I was stuck in that forest and I was like, wow, you know, if I was a plant, the canopy was too wide. I couldn't see, you know, it was just right in front of me, right next door, is the trunk in a route, yeah, yeah, or, or the branch is the one that dropped me, you know, and I'm trying to sprout and stuff. But so these guys are just kept watering me with like little elbows.

Speaker 1: 25:25

Hey, you know, you know that every day I am around the new tribal, which is that's one of the shops in Honolulu. No, no, yeah, who are who? Hawaii that had the best, not like I wouldn't. Yeah, information for me. I thought, you know I don't know other people's judgment, that's just for me, so I would just be encouraged.

Speaker 1: 25:53

I found everything else around the Philippines, like I found some Japan pattern, you know. I found Taiwan. I found high non in high non island tattoos and and and nothing on the Philippines. Yeah, I found Borneo nothing on the Philippines. So I tried to do a shortcut and printed those photos, go to Hawaii and Show it to my friends and I'm like we're related to them too and they're around our block.

Speaker 1: 26:26

So I want that tattoo and they're like you know what it means and I'm like I think, yes, I'm like I go away. It's like he's like you're not getting it. He said you, you just not getting it. But I think, to be honest with you, they weren't trying to like Be preaching, they were more like talking about the joke. It's a continuous joke because they know it bothered me, you know.

Speaker 1: 26:56

So, man, every time going back and forth, going back and forth, they're the water. You know I spend my time in the sun real quick and Like babe in there and like, okay, let me see the intent. There's bright light computer, you know. Like you know, am I growing here or what? So research and search, no, fucking no tattoos, you know, like these, well, like, what am I supposed to do? Like, because ontogalog, my region, my island, everything has no, um, it's basically sucked right by the Spanish that came, you know, because the galogue in general means uh, you know, by the river or people. But you know people from the river because taga means from and Tagal means long ago and logs from illog water long, long ago. People of the river.

Speaker 1: 27:54

Now, if we were in that river system, of course anyone that came from the ocean that goes through the river Guess what we trade with, so influences and this and this and this and that we Like, imagine on, if someone has a better coin, yeah, and the person actually approached you to trade with what you think it's not good, you would trade that and get the better toy right. So, uh, just humans in general, I think uh just want to forget about the past, not knowing the sentimental value of it. The parents gave that toy that you don't think sucks. You gave it away for something that was manufactured. You know what I mean nowadays societies like that.

Speaker 1: 28:41

So I was blind, so I was just wondering, like, okay, I don't want to disrespect the clean does tattoo I, but I need to represent Filipino too. So finally, I bugged them so many times Going back to Hawaii. I told them okay, I know the National Geographic, there's tattoos and everything. I couldn't find the rest of the other meanings because I was looking wrong. You know what I mean. I was looking in general like microscope, not like from far away like this. You know, I got to look from afar. You can't see, you can't zoom in in the horizon and think like where's the boat when it could be here. You know what I mean. Yeah, you got to make sure you see from afar, right outside of the picture. So to me I was like oh, just, you know what I'm going to get, this pattern I'm going to. This is when bands were in, so, because I'm not into tattoos. So I asked them okay, this is my design and the general pattern that I found in every culture.

Speaker 1: 29:42

The weaving pattern. It means tighten it. You know what I mean. Because you weaved your mat and in the Philippines I found out, since I studied the textiles and everything and the arts and crafts and the basket dreams, stuff, like I noticed that it's been passed on. So I felt like, okay, this is like an heirloom, this is like a tattoo, because they weave it together. That's different hands, you know, passed on. The grandma passed it on, they just kept passing it. So I'm thinking, okay, I'm going to design this right here, because I noticed in some of the descriptions that the warriors, would you know, put crocodile teeth on them. So I had this tattoo crocodile teeth, the weaving pattern, the tight mat and then half of the honeycomb is to honor the first, you know, finding. I did, I wanted to tie my finding with, you know, the warrior symbol and the people of the past till now, and what it is.

Speaker 1: 30:50

I researched my island and I noticed it was like the Switzerland of Philippines, you know, different clans and different tribes would come there for a meeting. You know, and I didn't know, my island called Mindoro, meant in Spanish Mina de Oro, like mining gold, so people go there from different cultures and would trade with gold and everything, so from different subscripts of India. When they went over there for trade. The Filipinos by the river, which is us, basically learn the writing and I put the writing here, but, as you can see, I covered it. I put the writing here and it just basically to represent my island and everything. And now, as I researched it more, I thought it was Filipino and I researched it more, it's from India. So so where are we? You know like what? You know what are we man? So I just kept going back and forth over there, like seeing how they, they, how do you say that?

Speaker 1: 31:58

Like their actions lead to like them being like that? You know, like like, how can they find theirs? Like, how does like, how does an engine work? You know, you look at like the little bits and and it's in screws and you know how it combusts and everything. You try, I try to figure it out with, like how they speak, how they. You know it's inspiring. So I was like I'm going to try that with my thing.

Speaker 1: 32:25

So I tried it and tried it and tried it, but LA is just not doing it. I mean, I mean there's no, I mean there's a forest there, but yeah, it's like so saturated with like I don't want to say, but it's just the inspiration was in there, not like an island where it's like you know that's the streets are. You know a native name, you know, and growing up in LA is just like all the white man's name Smith. You know Smith street, you know stuff like that, and you're totally colonized. Still, your brain is colonized, still that you don't even see what the fuck's in front of you. You know, like, even though you look in the mirror, you're still fucking blind because you want to. You want to be something that you're not. And what sucks, too, is like seeing those tattoos although you're inspired, you're being something that you're not either, because you have the pattern from another side.

Speaker 1: 33:29

But somebody told me too, my Polynesian brothers. They told me that it's not even that. We're one people you know, and if you're island group, region, you know, if you pick and choose what pattern that correlates with your persona, your everything, that you feel that's a whisper right and I go. I just I wanted the same tattoo. You told me no. You told me no, and he's like well, let me read, you know, and I'm like this guy dude, I go, you guys, you know effing to be right, and it's like no, no, no. He said I can't explain without me being like how do you say that? I forgot what that was? But yeah, well, I wasn't into tattoos. These guys just kept fueling me and fueling me and basically finally seeing that book.

Speaker 1: 34:31

I knew we had tattoos, but I still wanted to go dig deep. I want to come back and say to them why this looked like that and that's freaking poetry for me, you know. I wanted to bring it back to them. You know, I don't know if it's little man syndrome, mom's kidding, but what do you call it? So I wanted to bring it back like hey, you know what? Yeah, we are the same people, but I have my own you know, like we have our own.

Speaker 1: 35:00

You know, although it's missing right now, I'm going to fuel it in some way. Like I didn't even know, it just fell into my lap Like this, this, um, this project I guess it wasn't a project at all. I didn't plan to like, do a revival. Um, us 10, the first 10 guys that started the organization. We weren't planning to do revival. You know, honestly, you were. You're from different um clicks. You know different sets and stuff. We all hated each other.

Speaker 1: 35:30

What made it together and what made the building blocks perfect to to, to be a temple, to be one, is those steps, like what I was talking to you about, like gangs and all that stuff. Right, it's a tribe. You know, something just needs to be. A stone is missing. That's where they're fighting. You know, if you put that stone of knowledge, it'll just build a step and it'll unite the individuals, you know, to the right path, to the top. And see down below, I'm like, oh, those were the hardships, those steps that hurt my thighs to walk up. There is the hardships, you know. So I realized when we were like, oh, okay, I got these little patterns, we were inspired. So I'll start drawing, showing my friends and the first 10 guys were.

Speaker 1: 36:22

We got into positive stuff, like guys. They they're the musician, they became musicians, some games to do, right, and they were into Russ Farai and some russet stuff and that brought peace because we were all from separate things, you know groups, and we all hated each other before, but you know, it just brought us together and gave us like a little, we like the same thing, so we're brothers. You know, we're just trying to forget what he did to my friend. You know it goes and then so try to break out the past alliance and make new ones, positive ones.

Speaker 1: 37:01

And since that tattooing thing, every time I go to Hawaii and come back I would preach to the guys, like not preaching some sense, but more excited. You know, yeah, like, oh man, you know I'm at that wine. They're so culturally sound there and you know I'll this and this and this and that, you know. And they're like Nate, you know, I mean because they're not in the what do you call this? They didn't go to Hawaii, I mean they weren't watered. They're just like you know, if you're a seed, you don't know if you're growing or not. You know what I mean, you're just laying down, looking at the.

Speaker 1: 37:41

So what Not knowing right next to them is I'm growing already. I'm being watered, you know they're like you're looking different, you know, every day. Imagine a line of seeds. We're looking different every day, you know. So I'm pumped up. I just kept like like telling them seed is thing for a bunch of warriors, you know they. And they're like oh yeah, man, did you buy more books? At first they're teasing, you know what I mean. They're like wow, they're like you're the guy that always ditch class, always never read books, always like an F and everything. And now you're the biggest fucking nerd. And I was like well, you know what? This is something I like and you like music and you're successful in that. So shut the fuck up. But together to the point. So they, we got together and they started seeing the designs and they got inspired like, wow, like I want to rock back, cause no one does. And I showed them pictures of my friends from Hawaii and they're like whoa, like that's a lot Cause usually back in our what Like in the nineties, early nineties, the only ones we see with tattoos was Samoans with the bands here, you know.

Speaker 1: 38:56

So that's why. That's why the traditional bands, getting bands. A long time ago they got it from the Samoans, right. So they wanted to get tattooed too, cause I told them, hey, look, I got my band already. They know Filipino, you know. So they're like sure we'll get ours. So they start getting theirs and everything. And then finally we start finding that, like it's just I don't know who it was, like it's our ancestors maybe, or whatever, but they were just placing blocks after blocks, me not knowing where I'm stepping, but it was just nice flat road and I just kept going and going.

Speaker 1: 39:31

Next thing, you know the guys I was just excited to share things with for actually walking in the same path. Now, we were actually like, for instance, I go to the Bob Marley his. When they were placing the star for Bob Marley, we ran over there in Hollywood. So, searching over there, I bumped into a lady with a nice tattoo and she said oh yeah, my hat's been tattooed. Coincidentally, this guy is his name's PJ, but he's Filipino and black. Any apprentice under Leo's or Weta, okay. And he is about to work at my friend's shop the one that's been teasing me too. So that coincidentally right. So there's no such thing as coincidence. So he bumped into me and he said he tattoos here, here's the car.

Speaker 1: 40:22

So I go over there, checked it out. And then he and I go, well, check this book out, and you think you could make up something. And the first thing, like every tattooist that care about tribals, what does it mean? And I go, well, all I know is this one, the little things I found. This one means this, and it's like I go, can you put it together? And he's like you know what your old news? And then he showed his tattoo and it was clean a tattoo. And I go wait, why would you ask me what it means when you have it already and you don't know what it means? So I was thinking, hmm, you know. But I just kept my mouth shut.

Speaker 1: 41:01

So we found the guy, he helped us out, and what I would do, too, is just just to get things started. I was I don't know what it was I was so hungry that I paid for my friend's tattoos. I work hard doing my job and I would do is give them loan the money, you know, because they were hungry for it. But they don't have cash, you know. So I was thinking, if I'm buying books anyways, I would. I would take each other's thing, I would go okay, I'll pay for books this month and I'll save money again and pay for it.

Speaker 1: 41:40

You know, big tattoos and blue was tattoo and the 10 guys you know, and so that we could be like you know, like a group that's Filipino, and we could be the guys from Hawaii, like they're united. You know what I mean, because I saw like such a unity when we all just like each other's crew, and then you see a group of people that's united already. Let's make it like official, you know, let's be a tribe. So I told them to, every time I go home, find a book, I read and I tell them, like you know, we're mixed, right. Like you know, we're like Afro-Agiatic, the black tribes that traveled, you know, and went to Melanesia, which is the black South Pacific. And then we're relays, polynesian, second wave, third wave, indian, arabic, and fourth is the Spanish fucking rulers, right. So we're basically mixed.

Speaker 1: 42:38

And my friends and he was just playing guitar, oh, that's cool man, you know, that's why some Filipinos got deep eyes. They look like freaking Indians, right? Yeah, just being jokers, of course. So what do you call this? We just joke around like that and then finally I go. I'm such a guy that starts clique all the time I go.

Speaker 1: 42:58

I guess we started group. Let's call it Filipino headhunters or something, some corny stuff like that. So one playing guitar and the other one's like that's corny, right. And then he's like, why don't you just talk about, like, name the things you've learned, like, why don't you talk about, like, like, the people that came right? So, boo, boo, he goes. What Call it? Like? Some kind of like you know the mark of those five things? Am I five? I thought it was like, oh, it's four. Spanish is like stupid, we're American, you know. So that's the five influences, mark of the five influences you know like.

Speaker 1: 43:49

And Krushy, another brother, he's playing, strumming the clarinet. It's like you know what Like? You know, fuck you, that's, or something right. So like, fuck that shit, that's Babylon, you know. You know their vastamanya, basically society you know they hate. So I go, what should we call? I go, I was still sticking to like Filipino headhunters, because as I researched more, I noticed that I'm born young, starting their own revival, and what's crazy is I'm friends with them now too, and their group is called born your headhunters, right, and I'm friends with the person that used to work for them, and so I was like we should call it that a virgin of that.

Speaker 1: 44:36

But see, my mind was still in that colonial thing where it's like I want it Sounds good, I want it. You know what I mean Lighten the water, I want it, yeah. So I did that too, but a good thing. They were just like why don't you just call it like Mark of the? I don't know they sail there. I was like four waves, I'm like it's too long. I was like it's too long, we'll see whatever. So I just put it in the back of my head, you know, and stroll there I go. Who's up this month for getting tattooed? So I just got them in line, like 10 of them, and even got my boy, charfield, you know, cut it up. I paid for that.

Speaker 1: 45:25

I just wanted as much people as possible that are related to polis, you know, to parallel them. How's that To show that? Hey, we got something to show too. Although it's little, you know, little patterns are in there. We got something to show Like Okay, but like a pandemic like that, keep people going, it's all so bad.

Speaker 1: 45:48

Like an existence, like a, like what do you call that? Even it's minuscule and everything. It's a proof, you know. So I made sure to make different, like it's same pattern, but different in every way. Like you know, you would place it a certain way, this, so at least you could share the same pattern. But yet, you know, and then, like we had the name thing, but finally we kept depending on the tattooist, so kept going over there spending cash, out the cash. You know the guys love it, I'm pretty sure. But what do you call this? After a while, like wanting to go home. I, you know how. You don't know you're broke, you're happy.

Speaker 1: 46:39

Yeah, so just seeing how damn, looking in the mirror, going like they, they could see themselves, their reflection, already, the real selves. You know the mind, the ancestors, they could see themselves being the ancestors, how happy they are, like it's alive, that thing, that whole thing was alive. So I could, I could feel it, but wasn't awake yet you know, like, how, like, how a dream is, you know, you keep just going along with the dream and you know, until it wakes you up. So I could see that happening and it fueled me more. I'm like, oh, there, first it fueled the eagle artists, cuz I'm like, oh, I'm drawing it, they like it. But if you see the bigger picture, there's more about the soul. You see that you know their appreciation for their culture. They're at, you know, their ancestors center.

Speaker 1: 47:35

So I kept doing it and doing it, even though it's like miniscule stuff, little stuff, and then probably fourth year or so yeah, the fourth year or third year we only had bands at the biggest. I'm the at the biggest. It's like probably from here to here, because when I got the band I was like I'm done with that dude. This whole thing could represent me, you know, but you always learn in life, so you got to add to your the landmark on your body, you know. So I, I would totally drawn everyone and I would like, totally like, try to push them to get it. You know, I was such a pushing. I was thinking, hey, I learned the best from, I learned it from the best in Hawaii. You know they were pushing me because they were so inspired that I got so inspired and it became the pusher, like that, and I kept doing it, doing it next thing, you know, like somebody, next thing you know it was, it was me.

Speaker 1: 48:43

I got my whole chest done everything in four days, you know, and I made sure the patterns only that I know I put because I gave the artist okay, place it wherever you want to place it. I want the framework of, like the Kalinga way, but the patterns I want, you know these kinds of patterns and assemble it so they could recognize. Okay, oh yeah, that's that from that hasional geographic Filipino book. Oh, so he's Filipino, so the patterns are home you and you know to me. So I just put the patterns that relate to me inside that frame, so the identity is there. That's for. You know, not the specific tribe, that's Kalinga, just the frame. Like, for instance, there's so many Native Americans with this right, but only a certain percentage, like because it looks so similar, have a certain either line, little zigzag here that could change the whole view of that. You know that group, so similar with that. You know, if I see a woman with these things, oh, and you went Indian, da da da right, you're jealous because they already identified with documents. So if this was documented, this chest piece, and it belongs on a Philippines, I don't need to say you know a first Kalinga, but now I do because we're. So what do you call this?

Speaker 1: 50:12

The revival was so open now that I could tell you. They could tell everyone. I just wanted something documented to represent things. So that's why I got the chat log, just that you. But the patterns belong to other groups that create my persona and everything. So I get this.

Speaker 1: 50:27

If we go to tattoo convention, our chart Phil goes to me and you know some of the founders they're, they're showing their, their bands and everything. We look ridiculous because everyone's fully tattooed in conventions, you know, and we have bands, we're wearing King Top and the bands right. So, but I'm the only one like that's really filled in the group. So when I went one time to what do you call this convention of photographer, saw, saw me and said what kind of tattoos are you ever seen? Is that that's one ding? I was like, wow, this is the question. I go on Filipino, these are Filipino tattoos. That's when, like bing, bing, bing, and you go because here's, here's my card, if you're interested, magazine wants to do an article. We never heard of a Filipino tattoo before, so they did an article.

Speaker 1: 51:25

At first I was gonna say no, because I'm thinking I don't know what to say, I'm not ready yet. I like what you're advising me, like you're not ready for speech, do this and do this and that I went to my friend's little white dude. They said that by just do. But I still stuck in my way. You know, I go, I come through. I'm not ready, you ever. So we still went with it like by the swallow my pride and I can pose there like I'm not freaking, posing for shit, me again, the rest of the ten guys that started the tribe and we're posing over there and and we thought that was our 15 minutes of it. So we're like giving each other that's yeah, yeah, that's so. We made it big, my little bad man.

Speaker 1: 52:11

And and then I noticed that I guess they did a additions, like okay, they did a big group shot and then each individuals they're gonna do what he called us the article on. I didn't know that. So but I saw a magazine and I noticed that it's my picture and it's article on me and I was like what the crap? And I noticed the in the bigger picture too, that everyone is abandoned. I got the suit. So I was like man, like I need to encourage these guys more because I don't want to be the only freak, because back in the days you don't see somebody, you like, you know, and so what he called it's like hers and more. They got more tattoos and then I would go back and get watered more and go to Hawaii and stuff, see how they're productive.

Speaker 1: 53:03

Yeah, that progression, the progress with their revival, and I showed them my progress and everything you know they could meet. That's, of course, not like yeah, you know, learn that, learn this, learn that. You know they just shooting. They just give me the right. You know ingredients, basically that I'm cooking up and then. So finally, I thought you know, maybe I should propose something to them go to Hawaii, color all of you, since we're all related.

Speaker 1: 53:35

I noticed that we're related within the four waves, probably related with us, like they've been telling you we should call, because in our language group it's called the Ashton Asian people and we spoke every speak the same language, dialects and everything. We're gonna call it ashrin, asian or Malay or Polynesian movement, right, and then back in the day there was a lot of prejudice with Islanders. If you say I'm there in your Filipino, you said you really want to be Islander, you know, want to be Pacific Islanders, right, ever, even though you're in the Pacific, they're like saying oh yeah, you're Asian or whatever. Right, so well, we would. Basically they're saying you're getting tattooed with palmese and stuff and it's not, when it's not even palmese. And I did my research but the politics of the majority was overruling it, even though my educated friends are saying that's Filipino. That's why I wanted to start that group where we're all tied together.

Speaker 1: 54:37

But my friend said you know what, just right now, since we're not educated yet, they're not ready. You know, let us keep doing our progression, you know, with our revival palmese revival before they're ready, because you guys need to go on your own path paralleling us. That you know. So I did that because we can't cling on to them. You know it's inspiring, yes, but you have to walk your own path. You know your dad or your mom can't hold your hand all the time.

Speaker 1: 55:11

You know it was scary, but I went on my own path and my senior know I just kept falling to place, man, my everything, the whole journey kept getting tattooed and and I could say, like I'll do these tattoos, it's like experiences that I had, feelings that I had. You know many rivers at the cross. I mean look all these rivers, you know, and I would have all tattoos that I will cover up, like the writing, even those from my island. It represents, yeah, one of the four waves, but it reminds me of, like one of the, the waves of influence that killed some of the deeper words in our language. The Indian came there and influenced the language in some sense. That how we, you know how people say, like there's the Shakespeare English right and the.

Speaker 1: 56:14

English of today like they. It's so different that over there it's like that now too. We have Indian words, we have Arabic words. So to me it's just like another influence.

Speaker 1: 56:26

I just erased it and started anew and I put a river here you know, and it's the famous river in the mountain region in the Philippines, because it's worse now over there. It means like where the road will take you right from your village and everything. But to me what it means is you know what, let it, let it keep going. You know what I mean. One word can't define you. You know, like people they get the word strength. That's so limited. If you get a pattern that's like even small, you could turn a whole fucking story like a whole book with one pattern, like friends and so sanity.

Speaker 1: 57:14

Son of a okay, it's an animal, I mean, it's the insect. That's very venomous. Correlates with what if he puts that on him and he's a tough warrior. You know stuff. You know right now. Put centipede in their sense of village and community, they'll be like one thing with many legs, meaning community, working together stronger, because it is one thing, not first I'm thinking that I don't know. Then I looked at a book too. When they're coming across mountains with all their war gear, shield and everything this, the spirit of the antics, it looks like legs of the centipede going up. So back in a day, I'm pretty sure since you can't take a snap of that, you're like well, I'm gonna take here, so they wouldn't. So that's when I realized yeah, but brother guilty.

Speaker 1: 58:11

I you know, I look up to that guy, he how he listens to water, and you know this is not turn it into his own experiences. I did the same, you know. I did the same without even I haven't even met him yet, you know, but I did the same. I looked at it in the print in their shoes. How's that like? How, like from afar, you know, like if you see people walking, well, they look like a bunch of ads, guess what? Yeah, so I did that and then I got into that thing, basically that way.

Speaker 2: 58:51

Sorry, it's pretty long-lasting no, no, I, you know, I know enough that indigenous people who tell our answers in a story. Yeah, it's, it makes sense yeah, thanks no man, we think it's good. So when do you actually start catching? Because you said you had you. You know you had been getting tattooed, encouraging people to get tattooed and getting tattooed yourself. When was that point where you're like, yeah, I'm gonna do?

Speaker 1: 59:25

actually, um, it was more of like an experiment. I just there was too many tattooists like taking advantage of the fact that we were so inspired, you know. And then they knew I'm not, money was no object, but they knew that we'll get the money, you know. So they would basically try to prolong sessions, you know they'll let you draw, it be all like hyped up, and then they're like, oh, we can't finish it today and you know it kind of kills the motivation because you lost money when you thought you're gonna finish this certain amount. But yet you think you have a relationship with the artist too. That's maybe it's a fake relationship, you know they mean they're just taking advantage you because you're gonna have no tattoos. So I would just, I was blind to that fact, you know. So because my Polynesian brothers in Hawaii that there were tattooists were very, you know, kind, but it is a ways, you know, it's not the same. So because there in Hawaii they're really inspired to tattoo things. So I'm pretty sure. But LA is like, who cares? It's money. So we just got in this, kept milk and it's for money, I guess one day, and you, it took me a long time to really decide that I should tattoo. To be honest with you, we got to dependent, like nowadays Everyone's dependent on their phone, everyone's dependent on Google, everyone's dependent on Wikipedia you know everything. So we got so dependent on somebody that's inking us. If the fact that we already have books, we already have drawings that we could do, that's enough for me. I was already drawing it, so that's enough for me and we'll just find any artist. Oh, we don't get along with artists anymore, right, let's move to artists we could trust and have a better relationship with. So we keep doing that. That's probably like oh, let's see if it's 18 years now.

Speaker 1: 1:01:41

I got started probably a long and the person that got me actually started is a friend, a good friend. That's part of those main people that helped me get inspired. It's Isaiah he. What do you call this? He's a Tongan brother. He's Filipino and Tongan and he just does what he does and inspire people. And he was just telling me that you know you should be the one applying this, because you know it's your people. I mean, he sees the progression. You know he settled in his place, where he knows where he's at, whereas me I'm still going because I don't know around that. Still, I know it's progressing, but I don't know, I can't see from afar yet I don't know. But he could see where it's going.

Speaker 1: 1:02:36

So, but my ab bad habits, I would just be like I can't do it. You know I can't do it. I mean, what do you call this? Let me just find a new artist that could work with, or whatever. So I didn't really listen. Next thing you know like we go to another artist, syncing happens and then we work with Filipino artists Because what they do, when they learn, they take off because it's for cash and fame.

Speaker 1: 1:03:10

You know us were more about soul. You know like, wow, this is for your people. That's more of like we were so hyped up that we were welcoming everything, or like open arms and everything, not knowing every individual is a different person or personality, the way to raise a different. They could fuck you over any time, right. And we were to the point that like, yeah, you know like, but I call this that's the right thinking, but we weren't careful, how that? So I just kept denying stuff and have Filipino tattoo it. Because his advice is yeah, I have Filipino tattoo, you don't want to do it, I have Filipino tattoo it. They learn it, they go. You know, they get their 15 minutes of fame. They're the specialists you know. So, yeah, we kind of get, like you know, like I felt, used all the time, you know.

Speaker 1: 1:04:08

So we made it tighter in some sense. Where it's like, okay, first we're losing money because we order so much books. So we got organized something where you charge for research, you know, and then with that research money that you actually charge them where build, you know, treasury, where it's like, okay, one goes for the books, one goes for the artifact and once go for the labor, the person that researched it. So we organized that. Next thing, you know, it just fell into place. It started to be organized more and we start money start coming in because a lot more Filipino that saw magazine, saw other Filipinos that they've gone into that have a little banner, little thing would be like, hey, I want to repose my Filipino heritage.

Speaker 1: 1:04:50

So next thing, you know, it's like it's getting so big and we're getting known to be the ones applying it, even though we're not the tattooists that we encourage them to be. Hey, we have a group, you know, let's all hang out or whatever, but the name was something behind our back and stuff. So we're like, finally the guys I guess that's kept insisting on me for a week, dude, because some are surfers already. Yeah, man, sport waves, man, and you know like four waves. So next thing, you know, I just make it long, you know long term, like, let's put it in Tagalog, right, so it's the top, not up at now, right, that's the tribe.

Speaker 1: 1:05:35

And they're like, oh why that man? Like, you know, a bunch of American Filipinos on freaking find that, and I was like that's the point, man, I mean that's the only thing they need to know. Like I mean, we did all this research, got to know, you know, the deeper stuff and it's everyone's given so fast that at least let filter the ones that are actually inspired. So they're not familiar in tapping that, turn them or even pronouncing it or even saying it. At least they learned one thing before it's an introduction, it's like an arrow going towards that path, you know. So, like, let them get to know that.

Speaker 1: 1:06:18

So I made sure the site is the native tongue, you know. And we got sisters in there, we got everyone in there, and yet still I wasn't tattooing. And finally everyone was saying why don't you tattoo? Why don't you tattoo? And then my brother is there on this, I kept telling him to, yeah, just tattoo. You know, here here's a tool, like because he does tapping. Then, when he wasn't at the with the family, the, the great Swapia family, so I'm he had tools and he learned how to make it and stuff and he was saying, hey, try it. You know, like me, I was. We tried it on Charfield, you know, we tried it on like one of the other guys from tribe. We tried it on one of their, the ones that started to try it, and I would look at it and I'm like, damn, I suck Right and I go, this not for me, cause I thought you know things are so in line. I'm like, oh man, I don't think I could do it.

Speaker 1: 1:07:18

You know, it's like one of those like when you first touch the pool it's the whole school. I don't want to jump in there, yeah. So next thing, you know, just keep trying and drawing and drawing, and drawing. Finally, you're just freaking, so upset with things Well, push is it, and everything that you go back to your Polynesian brothers and be like, hey, um, hey, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know I, rather you guys have to us with Filipino cuttings, because the Filipinos that we turn to actually steal it in a colonial way. They sell it to the majority that's not even Filipino, because they think it's exotic.

Speaker 1: 1:07:58

Yeah, you know what I mean. They sell it out. So, um, working with Polynesians, they already have their culture, they progressed it Right, so they have something to offer in society. They don't need to steal our shit to offer it, you know. So we welcome them to tattoo us and everything. They did non-stroll it. But things happen, there's fallout sometimes and everything. So what do you call this? That's when we start to um, I guess I tattooed for like probably like only like nine years or ten years there's 18 years so but it wasn't consistent.

Speaker 1: 1:08:47

It was like if somebody gave me a chat I'd go. You know I'll tattoo. But I noticed that if it was consistent within a year like I'm a badass, you know. And then people that are scared to do half-puff or whatever, or tapping or all that stuff, of course you get rusty. It's not like a bike. I know a lot of artists would say it's like a bike man. Yeah right, people's skin is always different. Just because you got comfortable with the other person's skin, consistently tattooing them, you know, the next person that you tattoo, it kind of shows your pride too, because they turned out badass on the first one. But when you tattoo the second one, if it's different, it kind of be like oh man, you're stuck in doctor's skills, right. So I was that. I was like I was in and out of it within a time span of eight to nine years.

Speaker 1: 1:09:44

And then finally we got recognized with the books and articles. Yeah, I got to give a shout to her friend, lars, because when I was really inspired with the revival, I looked at articles left and right and he wrote for a page and there was a picture of a warrior and all I did was email him and asked like, hey, where do you find this picture? You know, I want to find it where the book is, because I'm thinking if I saw it on the National Geographic, the other chief would have faced that too. Who is this one? Maybe there's another book? Yeah, so it's me. Yeah, so it's me that I can say, oh yeah, you know, this one's from Missy, missy Matt, and I go oh well, I'm part of this group because we already settled the name right. I'm part of this group here.

Speaker 1: 1:10:43

Check out the website. Although it was a weak ass website, it was on. It was on like a, a space or some Asian Avenue. It's called like that, yeah, yeah. And it's like oh, okay, that's the one from the magazine or whatever and he's like okay. And then he was interested in like doing an article on this, taking pictures of something and everything. We built a friendship that way and he helped like he's a great supporter on that Like. So if we're down about like certain things he would write about being keep it going, tell us, inspire other Filipinos. So he was. He was a big time like arsonist. He was setting fire on every Filipino.

Speaker 2: 1:11:27

He was writing. Yeah, he was a big arsonist, that's what I call him Arsonist.

Speaker 1: 1:11:35

But yeah, with this, the revival, like, it's so strong sometimes that when we knew we were established and I know we're still learning but when we knew we were established, we could assist other indigenous group. You know what I mean. Or like, if you know your friend, native American, but he was like I don't want to say you're doing white stuff, but in the place that you were, how's that Like? You don't define it as a white thing because you're not white and you're practicing it, but just what society in between you know branded you with right To act a certain way. Because you grew up with like everyone in your group. You know you're like shaped in a certain way.

Speaker 1: 1:12:24

I mean, imagine if you're bathing they put a band here or a tree with a pipe. You know what I mean. The tree is going to be like that, right, because they morph the whole tree. It's not natural. So basically, that's us. We're just trying to escape that. You know how they've tried to morph us. So when I see like any other indigenous person, I'll be like okay, you know what I could see myself? That was me, you know. So that's why I reach out to other indigenous people and like, hey, well, I heard, because they don't have an idea. You know they don't have.

Speaker 2: 1:13:01

You were there.

Speaker 1: 1:13:03

Well, I wish you know I was, I was that charismatic, inspiring, but you know I, you know I. I just want to at least be just a pebble on that road that you know that they'll make for their future. You know people to be recognized and stuff, so at least, yeah, I could create that right and cool. So I became a tattoo. I mean great artists like Taku, I mean he's inspired by it, reviving Jamon tattoos, and that's the right thing. He saw pottery and it is a Pacific Rim.

Speaker 1: 1:13:44

Everyone traded, Everyone saw tattoos in general aesthetically beautiful. You know what I mean. Their tattoos, their art, you know. So imagine, like their icebreakers too. For instance, a person that doesn't do tattoos but yet a portrait is so is so aesthetically pleasing. Or a dragon looks so real what they see on TV but yet it's on skin. A person that's old, doesn't like tattoos would always say that's neat, Is that real? They'll still be shot and they'll still be amazed, even though they don't like the tattoo. So we're colonizing them. You know, or you know, yeah, in some sense you know their vision is changing with certain things the tattoos, and so, I think, the educational one, if the approach of an indigenous person is very upset with being colonized, that if their approach is through educational, use of cultural meanings and everything, I think the other people could embrace that. You know, like by force, that's like they feel threatened. Of course they're going to grow up in arms too. That's how war started. So it's you know, you're educated about certain things. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:15:10

You know, in the beginning you were talking about your friends were kind of giving you the elbow and saying, well, you don't get it. You know. Well, you said one, so you know, but you weren't getting what it meant to have these patterns.

Speaker 1: 1:15:25

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:15:26

Right. So why is that important now? Why is it important for you or anyone else to have these marks? If, coming from the past to the you know, to the present, towards the future, why is that important for them to have these marks to say who they are?

Speaker 1: 1:15:46

Well, okay, you know the struggle to know all those patterns and everything. What I went through to research and everything I wanted them to at least like not think how it was like you know I told you about like how the colonizer think, like oh wow, how pretty is that thing. I'm going to stay there and squat. You know I'll be a squatter, right. So I didn't want to be like that. I worked hard to research stuff, to get books, money broke and all that stuff For me to establish it and have it progressed and have it set where people could see patterns people see on live person as an exhibit, right. So for the first few years, how to not know what it means when we bought, whole box got broke To me is like getting a PhD when you didn't even deserve it. You know, for years we've done it, 18 years and for them to just go that looks neat. They're the ones who look like me from a long time ago.

Speaker 1: 1:16:55

So I rather be not a dick but more of a person that like push the rules. How's that? Because you can't, it's like. It's more like an easy school, because like school is things you don't want to study. You know what I mean. This one is. It's appropriate for you to study it. It's you. You don't want to be a fucking walking blind. I mean, like, come on, it's like having something you know kick me in my back. You know that's the bigger thing. Everyone's kicking you like wondering what the fuck's going on. You know you want to have a mirror in front of you and where you're going, like you know, I'm like okay.

Speaker 1: 1:17:45

I'm moving forward, you know, but I'm not like I'm just happy that I'm. A lot of different cultures that see my situation. That I saw in the Polynesian situation, you know it's a step Like they inspired me. Polynesians did it. I've fallen in Asian Renaissance and they've never got so strong that we're inspired by others too. And I'm sure I know Taku, great, great artist. You know it's a very humble guy. You know to give me credit for that, no, it was. He should give credit to like what do you call this? The spirit of it? How's that? You know, it was beyond me and it was. It's really beyond us too. You know it's really beyond us. It's where it just uses a vessel. You know there's cups that get dirty and people just attitude change and people that steal from you. Those are the dirty cups, but yet you could wash it too. And then, because they're, they grow and they change their personality I mean personality they can be better. You know people that are saved in Christian life. You know they're born again, right, yeah, that's being washed away. So to me it's like I was just, like I was clear of that. After that I see better.

Speaker 1: 1:19:22

You know, of course, a lot of people that are not educated tend to lean towards hate and jealousy and everything. But it bothers me sometimes to feel a bit better. But I wonder if that's not my responsibility anymore. Yeah, you know they could hate all their mom, you know, because they don't have what you've learned, you know. And why, like, hate somebody because he has a lot of information, why not take that path too? Like I'll beat you, I'll show you right. That's what I did when they kept elbowing me, saying you know you don't get it, you don't get it. I'll show you right, not in a negative way, but I'll be like yeah, thanks for my encouragement, Not knowing he encouraged me.

Speaker 2: 1:20:14

Exactly.

Speaker 1: 1:20:14

Yeah, but nowadays people are stuck in like colonial mental or say, but I wanted that, you know, a small breath. But I wanted it. I can't receive it. I'm not fucking. You know that's ingrained in every immigrant and every native nowadays, you know they get so many things handed to them and stuff Nature handed you the land. You know your ancestors didn't hand you the land. They settled in the land you know, I think, where everything's meant to be.

Speaker 1: 1:20:53

So if things keep evolving like tattoos, right and meaning change is more visual now because there's portraits, everything right. But you're not going to get Native American unless you put something Native American, because people are mixed. Everyone's mixed nowadays, you know, and the one they tend to lean towards more is the one that the soul's hungry for. So if a person's mixed with, why are Filipino? If you're tensed to lean towards the Filipino side, more the soul's hungry for that. That's very curious about it. You know what I mean. So this is a voice from the New Year. It's a mana. You know. That's your heirloom to get. That's your treasure, you know, and my daughter's name is Kaya man. Kaya means I can, and mana is heirloom or treasure, you know. So I can't have it and we had the end on there. It's past tense, I already have it.

Speaker 2: 1:21:55

So what advice would you give? You know, if somebody came to you and they wanted to start a journey reviving their traditions, what advice could you give to them?

Speaker 1: 1:22:07

Like the usual, like when me you have talk strengths right, it just comes out natural. It gets me excited again that you know that there's actually another person that was me. I'm excited for what's next, like you know, when you have a guest at the house, like, wait till you taste my coffee.

Speaker 1: 1:22:30

You know, what I mean. Yeah, like, or oh, man, I can't wait for you to see my place. You know this brand new place, like, yeah, you just want to share it down, like what you achieved. You know what I mean, but really, in some sense, it's not what I achieved, it's what I want you to achieve. You know what I mean. So me showing my tattoos to them is like, oh, he's showing off his achievements, right? No, it's not that. You know what I mean. I'm seeing a mirror image of me, then, and I want you to look like me.

Speaker 2: 1:23:08

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:23:09

Or ancestor, you know, yeah. So to me it's just natural. Before I used to be like tired of it because they like some people, instead of being inspired first to ask for prices. I mean, like, if you're really really curious about your culture, who gives an F about the fucking money? And if you're really looking up about the organization, who cares about the fucking money? Yeah, yeah, we're so spoiled, you know we don't like, but the reality is that we're so spoiled about we could have this, we could have a restaurant, we could buy this. You know what I mean? That we don't live off the land that we cherish. We supposed to cherish that. Now we just build over it. There's plants there. Those plants can be feeding them. Deers that you could be hunting Fuck it, we'll pull it up. Thing TV swimming pool you know so.

Speaker 2: 1:24:17

Well, yeah, I would say the way that I would phrase what he was saying is that it's not necessarily about owning that, but building a relationship with that. Yeah, you know what I mean, because you and I are building a relationship, but if we are just, you know, chilling out next to each other, not, you know, nurturing each other, that's not a relationship. Yeah, and so when you're planting something, or you're going to gather something. You know, hunting something. You're building a relationship with that place.

Speaker 1: 1:24:49

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:24:51

Oh, just one more. What did you learn about your culture that you didn't know before you started this with the bottle?

Speaker 1: 1:25:03

Man, the guy that was looking in the mirror, like 18 years ago, like I didn't know nada, nada, tampe, and now I'm still learning. You know, no one, really, you know, finished learning. But I know there's. Recently we found, like probably three to four years ago, like we just recently found there's still a tribe in the Philippines, down way down south, that's practicing tattooing still, yeah, and the only problem is there's a lot of Islam radicals that are over there. So we can't me and Lars can't travel there. You know, to like give it light to the world that hey, there's still a practice, not this animistic group, you know, and that's so funny. I sounded like that this animistic group, you know. But yeah, man, I didn't know nada tampe thing. And where do what did you say? Where do I find this?

Speaker 2: 1:26:15

No, what did you learn about your culture?

Speaker 1: 1:26:19

Well, man, I learned so much, I'm still learning, and what? Why I'm encouraged to actually encourage, like Marjorie or, you know, any other inipitent group, is because, what do you call it, man? You want to how did I say this? If you're at the capabilities of what you achieved, if you went through that, you know you did that already Give your gifts to somebody else. You know what I mean. If somebody fucking ran out of gas, you know, and you, you know, you have a full take, give them, like what? 25 or 50% of your gas. See, if you guys are going the same way, right, give them a ride, you know that's the least.

Speaker 1: 1:27:13

Yeah, I believe this, but yeah to me. Yeah, I've learned to just be like I said you know, and what that is is like no, no, like try to know who you really are. Like know the person that's in the fucking mirror. I mean, there's so many things that are like you know. Oh, wow, I got new sneakers. Be looking at Mary checking them out. But you're not checking yourself out. You're real soft.

Speaker 2: 1:27:51

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:27:53

Yeah, you're hurting the soul, you know. Yeah, like it's very stupid too, because the cup is clear, right, but yet you're not paying attention to what's being put in a cup before you fucking drink it. You know, you know TV every teacher, or any teacher right, would teach you all this stuff putting in your fucking cup, and you just keep drinking it and drinking it At, not knowing it's toxic and shaping your body and morphing it into some fucking ridiculous shit, right? So to me, look at that fucking cup you're drinking now.

Speaker 1: 1:28:28

And then hey listeners.

Speaker 2: 1:28:31

Thank you for listening. I hope you enjoyed this episode. I just want you to remember that, no matter who you are, where you're from, what you've been through, what you've done, that you are amazing and beautiful and I'm excited to see you next week. If you haven't already subscribed, please go and do so, and if you have subscribed, I appreciate you following the Transformer of Marks podcast, and the last thing that I will ask you is to do me a solid and share this episode with somebody that you think will enjoy it. Thanks a lot and see you next week.