The Erasure of Indigenous Tattoos in an Effort to Civilize the Savages with Pauline Alvarez
Jan 09, 2024
Dion Kaszas with Pauline Alvarez
Bonus Episode # 007 When Pauline Alvarez speaks about her grandmother's tattoos—symbols etched with cactus spines—she isn't just recounting family history; she's weaving a narrative of identity, resistance, and empowerment. My latest conversation with this passionate zine maker and advocate for indigenous tattooing traditions reveals how these practices are much more than skin-deep. Pauline, with roots in both Los Angeles and Oodham territory, joins us to discuss the cultural significance of tattoos within Indigenous communities.
This episode is an intimate glimpse into the personal and transformative power of Indigenous tattooing, as Pauline shares the poignant story of her family's tattoos and how they serve as a testament to reclaiming autonomy, particularly for indigenous women. We explore the resurgence of traditional Oodham tattooing methods and how they affirm identity in a contemporary world that all too often seeks to erase Indigenous histories. Through Paulines work on a zine project aimed at documenting and preserving these traditions, we are reminded of the importance of keeping this knowledge alive and widely accessible for future generations. Join me for a journey that transcends the mere aesthetics of tattooing and honors the deep spiritual connections they represent.
I hope you have enjoyed this episode, and I am excited to travel the world of Indigenous tattooing with you as we visit with friends and colleagues from across the globe doing the work. This bonus interview is from my extensive archive of interviews, conversations and presentations I have recorded over the past 8 years.
You can check out Pauline at:
Instagram @oodhamhoney
Big shout out to Tia Clearsky for assistance with recording this interview.
Check out my tattoo work at: https://www.consumedbyink.com Instagram @dionkaszas
Buy me a Coffee at: https://ko-fi.com/transformativemarks
Bonus Episode # 007 When Pauline Alvarez speaks about her grandmother's tattoos—symbols etched with cactus spines—she isn't just recounting family history; she's weaving a narrative of identity, resistance, and empowerment. My latest conversation with this passionate zine maker and advocate for indigenous tattooing traditions reveals how these practices are much more than skin-deep. Pauline, with roots in both Los Angeles and Oodham territory, joins us to discuss the cultural significance of tattoos within Indigenous communities.
This episode is an intimate glimpse into the personal and transformative power of Indigenous tattooing, as Pauline shares the poignant story of her family's tattoos and how they serve as a testament to reclaiming autonomy, particularly for indigenous women. We explore the resurgence of traditional Oodham tattooing methods and how they affirm identity in a contemporary world that all too often seeks to erase Indigenous histories. Through Paulines work on a zine project aimed at documenting and preserving these traditions, we are reminded of the importance of keeping this knowledge alive and widely accessible for future generations. Join me for a journey that transcends the mere aesthetics of tattooing and honors the deep spiritual connections they represent.
I hope you have enjoyed this episode, and I am excited to travel the world of Indigenous tattooing with you as we visit with friends and colleagues from across the globe doing the work. This bonus interview is from my extensive archive of interviews, conversations and presentations I have recorded over the past 8 years.
You can check out Pauline at:
Instagram @oodhamhoney
Big shout out to Tia Clearsky for assistance with recording this interview.
Check out my tattoo work at: https://www.consumedbyink.com Instagram @dionkaszas
Buy me a Coffee at: https://ko-fi.com/transformativemarks
Speaker 1:
So, in order for us to be invisible and not appear as we don't exist anymore, our markings had to be erased, and that was metaphorically and literally, in a very intentional and deliberate way.
Speaker 2:
The Transformative Marks podcast explores how indigenous tattoo artists, cultural tattoo practitioners and ancestral skin markers transform this world for the better, dot by dot, line by line and stitch by stitch. My name is Dion Casas. I'm a Hungarian Métis and Intlacopak professional tattoo artist and ancestral skin marketer. I started the work of reviving my ancestral Intlacopak skin marking practice over a decade ago. I've helped, supported and trained practitioners and tattoo artists here on Turtle Island. In this podcast, I sit down with indigenous tattoo artists, cultural tattoo practitioners and ancestral skin markers from across the globe, bringing you behind the scenes of this powerful, transformative and spiritual work.
Speaker 1:
Shabkaish onion up chigi polin alvres. I'm Akmal Otham and Thono Otham. I grew up in Los Angeles, which is unceded Tongfa territory, and right now I'm currently back home on Otham territory, so yeah, so what do you tell me about what you do, especially in relationship to tattooing?
Speaker 1:
Right. So my interest in indigenous tattooing definitely started off with my master's thesis, and I was really intrigued by my family's tattoos because it definitely like asserted our identity as Otham folks, especially in the context of LA right, it's away from our traditional territories. But then I was really fascinated more by my grandmother's tattoos, because I that was really empowering for me to see like a woman be tattooed and like my grandma, and it's like it's also like cute that she had these like tattoos like on her, like wrists, on both sides, and one was just like Mary, like her name, and another one was like RE, my grandfather's initials, and so I asked her more about them and I come to find out that one of them was actually done when so she went to Sherman boarding school in Riverside, california, and while she was home on vacation she had one done, but it was done with cactus spines. So it's like oh, wow, like that's, that's interesting. And she's like, yeah, like you know, we're just kids kind of like messing around. I'm like okay.
Speaker 1:
And so I started getting more into like what we as Otham people, like what we used for our tattooing and what it looked like, and so obviously had to sift through a lot of anthropological work and things like that. And so, yeah, and it really got me intrigued into how, like this, as Indigenous folks, like marking our skin is really important and how we've always been doing that and just because, obviously because of like colonialism, there's been this like shame around it, and I just kind of like think that when we mark ourselves, like we reclaim our um indigeneity, but also like we're reclaiming our bodies and um it's, you know, we're reestablishing this autonomy we have over our bodies. And I think for me, especially as an Indigenous woman, that's often not afforded to me, so it was really important for me to kind of, like, you know, follow this like footsteps of my grandma and like I'm going to tattoo my body and I don't care yeah.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, and so, um, aside from my thesis, I also have a zine. I really I got really into zine making because of how accessible it is and like um, and it's like basically self publishing, and because I wanted to share my work with that. I did for my thesis with my family and I knew like they wouldn't really be able to, you know, read the. You know all this text, and so I was like, all right, I'm gonna put it into a zine, and so this is kind of also a way for me to like archive, um, not only like my family's tattoos, but I also have reached out to other folks and I'm currently working on the second issue of it and, yeah, I just kind of want to use that as like a source that's accessible to lots of other folks. Awesome.
Speaker 2:
Um, you know, one of the things that you said that I find really interesting is that you know I'm continuing to you know ask especially, you know, indigenous women about this process of reclaiming our body. So, um, could you share whatever you're comfortable with you know in relationship to that?
Speaker 1:
Um, yeah, so it's obviously really personal and um, and I had always known so on my back I have um itoyki, which is like men in the maze and it's very specific to uh, often people, um, and I had always known like ever since I was little. I'm going to get that tattoo. Like a lot of people in my family have the same tattoo, I was like I'm going to get it, but then my dad was kind of like, don't get it too big, like it has to be this side, I have to go with you, um, and it was kind of like, oh, okay, but I'm going to get it, um, and so that was great. But also, I just actually recently got um, this was actually hand poke, it's our, our water design. Um, kind of who's actually like, did this work?
Speaker 1:
And like, when I got home he was like no more tattoos, like, and so you know, we're, as women, like we're still struggling to kind of like like say, hey, this is me, like I'm your daughter, I'm indigenous, and like this is me, um, recuperating not only these traditions but like being proud and being um, you know, and being unapologetic about who I am and uh, making space for myself in this world, as we should, and I think we should also like uplift other, um, you know, young native girls, um, and other native women, um, and I think we, you know.
Speaker 1:
So my grandma was kind of like giving me permission to do this, to get these tattoos, and I kind of did, like you, sir, when I first, when I got my first tattoo, I was like, well, grandma has tattoos, so yeah, so that's kind of like what what I was thinking about and also like if we, you know, think a little more about like violence against indigenous women and, um, and and just how, like indigenous women are constantly fetish sized and, um, exotic sized, like I definitely think when we put like markings on ourselves that we're pushing against like that narrative. So that's, that's kind of where I'm coming out from it.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, you know when. Uh, the thing that I really enjoyed about your research is the way that you talk about the erasure of tattoos connected to the erasure of white, so can you share a little bit about that?
Speaker 1:
Yeah, um.
Speaker 1:
So, you know, obviously, with settler colonialism, you know, the whole purpose is to take the land.
Speaker 1:
They came here, you know, settlers came here to say, um, so, with that, in order to, you know, say, like native peoples weren't here, they had to take away our markings, because that's what made us indigenous, that's what, um, you know, that's what identified us to our specific tribal nations and also, um, our our connections to other tribes as well, because I, you know, from some research that I've done, some indigenous folks would go for ceremony to, like, you know, another indigenous nation and then get tattooed there.
Speaker 1:
So, um, for ceremonial purposes, um, one indigenous nation might go to you know another nation's territory and within certain ceremonies they might do kind of like, like, like share tattooing traditions in a way, but like, someone might get tattooed, um, within that ceremony, and so I think it's, yeah, so, in order for us to be invisible and not in a period we don't exist anymore, our markings had to be erased, and that was, um, metaphorically and literally, uh, in his very like, intentional and deliberate way. So that's kind of a little bit where I talk about like unmarking specifically, yeah, Um, so kind of.
Speaker 2:
I have two more questions. One is you know, uh, you know we talk a lot about, you know the healing and you know kind of frame this work that came around had medicine. Do you have any thoughts around, uh, you know, that idea of the use of tattoos as medicine?
Speaker 1:
Yeah, definitely, because, as I stated before, I grew up in Los Angeles and so I definitely had some issues with my identity and trying to figure out oh, I'm just an urban Indian, I don't have much of a connection, but when I first got my Ietoi ki even though it was done by a non-native person, it was done in just a tattoo shop near my house it definitely made me feel like I'm awesome.
Speaker 1:
I chose to have this symbol on me, this marking that other awesome folk can identify and be like oh, are you, pima, are you TO? And it's just a way for us to also build community in that way. And I think with communities comes healing as well. And yeah, so definitely, from my perspective and my experience, my tattoos and my markings have definitely brought me healing. I do think it's important that we because I think sometimes there's a lot of conversation around this kind of contemporary versus traditional tattooing and I think sometimes that's very limiting and that's restricting to us ultimately trying to recuperate our communities and healing, going back to healing and ultimately being sovereign, because I think it's up to us what we think of tattooing and how we're going to define it.
Speaker 2:
So the last question I always ask people is is there anything you ever wanted to share or is there anything else you'd like to share? So a lot of times I work with other indigenous practitioners and they get interviewed time after time after time, and it's always the same question. So is there a question or something that you've always wanted to share that you don't agree to do that?
Speaker 1:
Okay, I know it's tough, that is tough, it is tough, and I'm also like this is like my first interview, like this, so I don't know, or is there something else you would like to share?
Speaker 2:
add to what we've already done.
Speaker 1:
Well, I guess one thing that I'd like to share is that I admire all the work that is being done in Canada First Nations folks and also Maori folks and Native Hawaiians and Samoans and I just wish we can bring that here to the States.
Speaker 1:
And I think there's definitely a need and there's definitely people already doing that work and it's just about hopefully bringing some of those folks together and I know we had talked about previously maybe like a collective or working together across these borders that aren't doing anything for us anyway, to begin with, and collaborating because I think, yeah, I think this is really there's definitely a resurgence, a huge resurgence, but I think it would be definitely great if we brought it more here in the States and there's definitely like I don't know how to say it like obviously a need, but like people are so excited for this.
Speaker 1:
But I would say, like, along with that excitement, I think we need to have more discussions around responsibility. And I think for myself, like doing this work, sometimes I felt like, oh, maybe people won't take me seriously because, like, I don't have any like facial markings and like, and I think, like, compared to most people, like, relatively speaking, I don't have that many tattoos. But it for me it's about because I know there's a lot of responsibility that comes with these markings and that we need to carry and like. We need to live in a certain way and gain some understandings. And I'm not necessarily saying we have to go back to like these traditional ways, but those are traditions, definitely need to inform how we're going to think about you know when we do these tattoos and who gets to be tattoos and who's doing the tattooing in the present and in the future.
Speaker 2:
Hey listeners, thank you for listening. I hope you enjoyed this episode. I just want you to remember that, no matter who you are, where you're from, what you've been through, what you've done, that you are amazing and beautiful and I'm excited to see you next week. If you haven't already subscribed, please go and do so, and if you have subscribed, I appreciate you following the Transformer of Marks podcast, and the last thing that I will ask you is to do me a solid and share this episode with somebody that you think will enjoy it. Thanks a lot and see you next week.