#012 When the ink settles into the skin, it's not just a tattoo – it's a legacy being etched. Join me and the talented Cree tattoo artist Poppy Del as we traverse the vibrant juncture of cultural tattoo art and Indigenous heritage. Poppy unveils her intimate connection to her contemporary cultural tattoo practices, all the while balancing the beams of social media's double-edged sword. We're stitching together stories of her beloved English Bulldogs, the enduring influence of her father, and how these personal threads are interwoven with the tattoos that mark both skin and soul.
Transitioning through the realms of modeling, makeup, and hairstyling, Poppy found her true calling in the buzz of the tattoo machine. She pulls back the veil on her design process, from the initial spark of inspiration to the final reveal on appointment day, while shedding light on the digital revolution that's reshaping her craft. And as we sketch out her apprenticeship journey, you'll discover how every line drawn and every color filled is a testament to her thoughtful approach, ensuring each tattoo not only adorns but also honors the body it lives on.
This episode is not just about the art of tattooing; it's an exploration into the renaissance of Indigenous tattooing traditions as a form of academic interest and community connection. From the hum of conventions to the silent depth of cultural ceremony, we unpack the significance of these practices in today's world. So, immerse yourself in a story that celebrates transformation, love, and the intricate designs that bind us to our roots.
I hope you have enjoyed this episode, and I am excited to travel the world of Indigenous tattooing with you as we visit with friends and colleagues from across the globe doing the work.
You can find Poppy at:
Instagram @poppy_del
Check out my tattoo work at:
https://www.consumedbyink.com
Instagram @dionkaszas
Buy me a Coffee at:
https://ko-fi.com/transformativemarks
I acknowledge the support of the Canada Council for the Arts
#012 When the ink settles into the skin, it's not just a tattoo – it's a legacy being etched. Join me and the talented Cree tattoo artist Poppy Del as we traverse the vibrant juncture of cultural tattoo art and Indigenous heritage. Poppy unveils her intimate connection to her contemporary cultural tattoo practices, all the while balancing the beams of social media's double-edged sword. We're stitching together stories of her beloved English Bulldogs, the enduring influence of her father, and how these personal threads are interwoven with the tattoos that mark both skin and soul.
Transitioning through the realms of modeling, makeup, and hairstyling, Poppy found her true calling in the buzz of the tattoo machine. She pulls back the veil on her design process, from the initial spark of inspiration to the final reveal on appointment day, while shedding light on the digital revolution that's reshaping her craft. And as we sketch out her apprenticeship journey, you'll discover how every line drawn and every color filled is a testament to her thoughtful approach, ensuring each tattoo not only adorns but also honors the body it lives on.
This episode is not just about the art of tattooing; it's an exploration into the renaissance of Indigenous tattooing traditions as a form of academic interest and community connection. From the hum of conventions to the silent depth of cultural ceremony, we unpack the significance of these practices in today's world. So, immerse yourself in a story that celebrates transformation, love, and the intricate designs that bind us to our roots.
I hope you have enjoyed this episode, and I am excited to travel the world of Indigenous tattooing with you as we visit with friends and colleagues from across the globe doing the work.
You can find Poppy at:
Instagram @poppy_del
Check out my tattoo work at:
https://www.consumedbyink.com
Instagram @dionkaszas
Buy me a Coffee at:
https://ko-fi.com/transformativemarks
I acknowledge the support of the Canada Council for the Arts
Yeah, social media, I think, is a huge reason for anxiety for me, but it's also the reason why I am where I am, which is weird.
Speaker 2:The Transformative Marks podcast explores how indigenous tattoo artists, cultural tattoo practitioners and ancestral skin markers transform this world for the better, dot by dot, line by line and stitch by stitch. My name is Dion Casas. I'm a Hungarian Métis and Intlacopoct professional tattoo artist and ancestral skin marker. I started the work of reviving my ancestral Intlacopoct skin marking practice over a decade ago. I've helped, supported and trained practitioners and tattoo artists here on Turtle Island. In this podcast, I sit down with indigenous tattoo artists, cultural tattoo practitioners and ancestral skin markers from across the globe, bringing you behind the scenes of this powerful, transformative and spiritual work.
Speaker 1:My name is Poppy Dell. I'm a Cree Tattoo Artist in Edmonton, Alberta. I'm from Fort McMurray, First Nations.
Speaker 2:That's me Awesome. Before we go any further, I was looking at your socials and I seen you post about your dogs all the time. Tell me about your dogos.
Speaker 1:Perfect, that's my favorite subject. I have two English Bulldogs Butters, who is a year and a half now, and he's a giant turd. He's a baby dog. And then the older one is nine years old. His name is Sebastian, but we call him Pig. Oh, and Butters is usually called Bum Bum.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, bumber, bumber, ruby, he's got all kinds of names.
Speaker 2:They both do yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but yeah, I am obsessed with them there in my life Awesome.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we my wife and I have two dogs too. Aspen is our Husky and she's mostly white and we always got my nickname for her is Aspen the asshole. I love that, just because when she was growing up she would tear everything up just rip it up and yeah, like knives she would get, like I would have like camping, like legit sharp camping knives in the sink from coming home from camping and she would somehow get it out of the sink and be chewing on it like holding the blade down.
Speaker 1:Oh, my God.
Speaker 2:Chewing the handle like somehow just figured it out.
Speaker 1:And then chasing her to get it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and then we have beans and I call them stinky beans. He's like 100, Moogatami was 115 pounds, so yeah.
Speaker 1:We are my dog. Before Sebastian, I had a boxer named Lennox, but we called him beans too. Oh yeah, that's what I was like.
Speaker 2:oh, Yep, yep, beans. We got beans, oh, a couple of years ago now, because our other dog, rocky, passed, and so my wife called and she's like started crying on the phone. The lady said, okay, come get him. So we went and got him. Yeah, beans, he's awesome, he's like just a beast. When we first got him, we were walking on a trail and somebody was riding on their bike and they were like oh, look at that beast. You know it's a big dog when somebody says that.
Speaker 1:That's funny. Everyone's afraid of our dogs, but or not afraid. But when we go walking with them, sometimes people will cross the other side of the street, oh yeah. Because they're like the big, burly, flat-faced guys. They're sweet, they're the sweet. And they're short, yeah, and they're not the yeah, no.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but people don't know shit. So, so I just wanted to kind of, as we warm up in this conversation, just give you an opportunity to talk about your dad. You know, read quite a bit about him, as you had mentioned. I should do. Yeah, he's the best, so I just wanted to give you an opportunity to talk about your dad and yeah, yeah, yeah, my dad was a professional boxer until, I believe, like 1995.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but yeah, he has some big acclaims. He was the light heavyweight champion in Canada and the heavyweight as well held them at the same time and he fought for the world title against Michael Moore, which was a pretty big deal.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:He always came out in full regalia to drumming, which was pretty sweet. Whenever he'd win I'd hop on his shoulders and he'd carry me around the ring. Yeah, yeah, he was just. He was just a big deal, kind of not just in Alberta but all over Canada, for being, you know, a indigenous person to look up to and stuff. And yeah, he ended up having like a few boxing clubs for kids in, like Masquatchees and whatnot. But yeah, he was a pretty profound individual, I guess, and something to look up to for a lot of that stuff. Yeah cool.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah, I just wanted to give you an opportunity to talk about him, yeah totally. And maybe just tell us his name.
Speaker 1:Oh, his name was Danny Stonemacher. Stonemacher was his Korean name, which he also got in sweat and mask with cheese.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Apparently I was there, I was like eight months and they asked if I wanted to name at that point but they were like, oh, I should probably a little too little yeah. Yeah, cool I wish, though, because I still don't have a Korean name yeah, it's coming One day, I know One day, I know. Yeah, one day it's supposed to, it'll happen.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, it was just pretty cool to be able to watch some of that stuff and see those connections that you had, because I did watch, yeah, like I said, the little clip, I think, cbc or whatever. Yeah, you were talking about when he passed.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And yeah, you told that story of being held up on his shoulder as he was in the ring, so that was pretty cool and I thought it was important to highlight and bring that forward. And yeah, I think that I guess that's one of the reasons why I'm doing this podcast as well is like highlighting indigenous folks are doing dope shit, yeah, you know. So that is another reason. Like, hey, y'all, if you don't know who Danny Stone Walker is, go check him out. A couple of YouTube videos with him fighting.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's pretty awesome. Yeah, I actually was just occasionally. I'll like look up his name and see if more things come out, because they do over time.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And I ended up just getting an original stub from his fight with Michael Moore. I just got yeah, my boyfriend and I found it online. He bought it for me, but it's an original ticket from the original fight. We're going to put it in like a shadow box and have all this stuff on the wall. We've got, like the Canadian Championship belt that was given to me after he passed, because when he won you didn't get to keep the belt, but so they gifted me one after he passed and like just a bunch of other memorabilia.
Speaker 1:So we want to have like a little section of like this badass box and stuff.
Speaker 2:Dope yeah, and then we have like history there and highlight it and you know, yeah, because you know our youth need people to look up to. Totally, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, actually, with the belt, a couple of people have asked. I have a girlfriend who works with Indigenous youth in Vancouver and she asked me to speak with them just about my career next time I'm up there, yeah, and she was like, maybe bring the belt. It's like yeah, totally yeah.
Speaker 2:Some kids hold that. Yeah, like a little video clip or something.
Speaker 1:Yeah, totally. Yeah, that'd be awesome.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So from looking at your socials and reading old articles, I dug up a few old magazine articles before you started tattooing so you've done a ton of different things before tattooing Do you want to share what some of those things are.
Speaker 1:One of my favorite things to tell people is well, my very first job ever. This is not related to that, but I was a clown and then a transition of loving clowns and stuff, I used to be a makeup artist, but also as a side hustle I did kids face painting at events and stuff like that, so that was one of my favorite past careers is face painting.
Speaker 2:No.
Speaker 1:No one is more stoked on something that you provide them that a kid getting their face painted yeah. Like if someone a tattoo and they're like really happy. Sometimes you get a tear, which is fun. But yeah, when you show a kid and they're just like I'm a dinosaur.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's the best thing ever. Pure joy, yeah.
Speaker 1:Like sometimes I think of that and I'm like I should just start doing that again as like a side Totally.
Speaker 2:It was so much fun. Yeah, big time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I don't know, but I'm trying to think of like what year?
Speaker 1:Professional makeup artist, hairstylist and model yeah, I modeled since I was a kid on and off, but yeah, I was getting more tattooed and being an alternative person. I was tattoo modeling for quite a while, since I was like early 20s. So I did that as a side hustle. And then I did professional makeup for a while for a lot of stuff. And then I went to hair school to kind of further that because I would do hair as a side but, yeah, to get trained for that. I wanted to have more of like a wedding business and just wanted to be fully rounded with that. But then I got my tattoo apprenticeship as I finished hair school, so I never ended up working in a salon.
Speaker 2:Oh, wow, that's crazy yeah. So I guess the question why tattooing then?
Speaker 1:I guess, getting tattooed. I just really liked the process. I started getting tattooed when I was like 19. Lots of my friends ended up being tattoo or tattoo artists and then modeling, just being in that kind of, I guess, similar realm. But I'd like to draw on Doodle and they were always very silly. But then I was like I'm going to like focus on this and try to get a little better. So, yeah, when I was working in Fort McMurray on night shifts, my partner he would let me excuse me, he would let me just sit in the back and draw all night. Well, he did all the pickings and stuff. So he was like you're gonna be attached to yours one day and you owe that to me. But yeah, I just would draw and draw and really enjoy like recreating and realizing that you could draw something and it's not perfect then. But then you keep going back to it, redraw it and it gets better each time. Because, yeah, growing up thinking like, oh, yeah, I feel artistic, but then being awful at like oil paintings and stuff like that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the ability to just create and then like work on it until it's what you want it to be. And then I liked the style of neo-traditional artwork is like what I was drawing mostly at that point.
Speaker 2:So just rendering, having the strong bold lines and rendering it to more realistic, then yeah, totally. Cool. So do you oil paint or anything? No, probably no.
Speaker 1:My favorite medium is actually pencil, crayon-hundlewood, oh yeah cool. Yeah, I like the ability to make your color super bold and stuff and I have ADHD, so slowly watching like water, watercolor, oil painting, all that stuff too Like I need to be done now.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, pencil crayon is good for me, and then I do digital paintings on my iPad a little as well. I haven't been doing enough, honestly, of like personal artwork. Yeah, I do bead and I sew and I always feel like having those artistic works. I think that you should always, outside of tattooing, have another artistic niche, otherwise you're just gonna get bored of what you're working on, Stagnant yeah exactly.
Speaker 1:So I do try to do those kinds of things and I feel like I'm like pretty creative at home, like I like tinkering around with things, yeah, yeah yeah, yeah, and I thrift a lot. I feel like that's a network.
Speaker 2:Yeah, being able to find that and digging through everything.
Speaker 1:And then hoarding things being like this is a future project. I'm not sure, if that's free, you know, but we'll roll with it. That's one of my challenges, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:so how quick. Just thinking about the iPad, how quick were you to pick it up as a tool for tattooing?
Speaker 1:I knew some Photoshop and stuff from when I was like modeling and stuff. I tried my hand at photography for a second. I was awful at it. But yeah, with hair school and whatnot, there was some Photoshop, a portion of that, so I had a pretty general idea of it.
Speaker 1:So, it was pretty easy, Like procreate is pretty easy when you have that touch of knowledge anyways. Also, when I worked at Capital Tattoo, I worked with a lot of artists that do realism and stuff. So when they needed to change things they would use Photoshop to quickly.
Speaker 2:Layer it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly. So, yeah, just watching them with that. Once iPads came around then I found that it was pretty easy to pick up, but I did have friends that were not able to pick it up as quickly, so being able to help was pretty cool too.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's dope. Yeah for me. I was hesitant. You know just drawing for it, but fuck, hand stenciling.
Speaker 1:Yeah, oh, I've never, ever done that. Well, I mean, other than if someone doesn't walk in and I'm like here I'll just scribble it on here, but other than that, I've never had to do a full hand bombed stencil.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like a mandala that you have to trace and double over a stencil.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like folding your trace paper to make a mandala. Before I had to do a lot of that and then you'd be like get to the edge and you're like that doesn't match up.
Speaker 2:Right, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1:Or if someone wants something changed before the Procreate, someone would come in and be like oh well, what if we did that? Like that? It'd be like oh, get a coffee for an hour.
Speaker 2:I need to really draw this stencil. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so having that ability is awesome. I look like, yeah, when people because I don't show my drawings until the day of and some people get a little apprehensive of that, because if they want changes, but when I show them how quick I can change something, they're like oh, but that makes sense.
Speaker 2:Plus, if they have too much time, they show everybody and their dog what it looks like and they all have something to say yeah, yeah, that's it for sure.
Speaker 1:And then you can't explain, because I don't fully render things either. So if someone sees it in advance, they're like well, what does that mean? So it's just so much easier in person to be like? This is what I'm thinking. Let me explain it to you.
Speaker 2:So just a line drawing basically.
Speaker 1:Typically, or like I'll throw down like real quick, like select areas and put some color, just so that they kind of have an idea. If I've never tattooed someone before, then I'll usually do a little bit more with letting them see what my idea is and stuff, yeah cool.
Speaker 1:And now that I'm doing a little more of the traditional style, well, what I base it on? I find that that is easier to color in advance than like a full Neotrad piece. So with those ones I'll kind of just put where shadows would be or whatever, but not like a full rendering, unless I have a lot of time or the hockey games on.
Speaker 2:Yeah, cool. Yeah, it was kind of cool to. In an old article you said I either want to be a tattoo artist or open a punk beauty salon. Oh my God. So it's kind of cool to see that that dream of the tattoo artist came true.
Speaker 1:That's fun. I feel like I remember what that one was from. But, yeah, I also back then, before I was in the tattoo industry, I wanted to like put them together as an idea and now I'm like, no, no, that would be awful yeah. Totally different yeah definitely, but also, that being said, my space here is it's a small studio in like an area with a bunch of collective studios, so I do work around a lot of hairstyles, ah cool. So in a sense, I'm kind of doing what my dream.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there you go no came true without you having to try.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2:So you shared in an interview that reconnecting to your dad and his passing had a big part in you moving your work towards ancestral visual language, specifically beadwork. Do you want to talk about that?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean I felt getting to be connected with him more, though years before his passing really made me more proud of where I came from and I just, I guess, also growing up, I was like more inclined to want to learn more about my history and culture and I just felt like it just was becoming such a beautiful thing to me that I really wanted to do more in it. So that's why I also started sewing and picking up beading and stuff and then I was like, how can I incorporate this into my artwork? So I really wanted to and I talked about it for a while with people. But people only get tattooed what you're showing, right.
Speaker 1:So I ended up having to I'm not having to didn't take much convincing but I offered my little sister for me to do a mucklub ramp on her shin and once I posted that then it just came so quick. But a big part of it was definitely the reconnection with my dad and just seeing the fact that he came out in Virgilia to his craft you know Like it just and then being able to start like now I always say I like to indigenize my outfits. While I still consider myself very punk rock. It's fun to like have a mixture of both.
Speaker 2:Yeah, totally.
Speaker 1:But yeah, it definitely was a progression of the reconnection and then, just as I learned more and realized how inclusive also people can be, because growing up in Fort Mac there wasn't as much opportunity to learn from others.
Speaker 1:And now that so many people are connecting to culture again, being able to talk with people and get like advice, like, oh, come to this sewing gathering or this, you know, I feel like now, as an adult, it's become so much easier to be able to do that. And, yeah, and now every client that I tattoo, I learn so much more from which is also the coolest thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, it's such a beautiful reciprocal relationship you know For sure, yeah, you gain so much from the folks that you spend time with and visit.
Speaker 1:yeah, I feel like at home. I'm constantly being like oh, my client told me the other day, or oh, this client said something like a lot of the things that I know are just based on my full conversations with my clients, and then I get to, I don't know, have all this extra knowledge of things I probably wouldn't have known anyway.
Speaker 2:so yeah, such a blessing, hey, yeah, it really is, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:And then also being invited to like I've been invited to sweats with clients, or I've had clients offer me to like go berry picking in their neck of the woods when the time comes and things like that. So yeah, having those connections like I have more friend clients now than I ever did in my career before yeah, yeah, that's awesome.
Speaker 2:All their names in my phone, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, some people are like why do you give people your phone number? I'm like they're not abusing it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, definitely yeah, that's cool.
Speaker 1:Like all my clients, have my phone number.
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah, yeah, cool. Yeah, it's actually funny that you said that, because my next thing was talking about understanding that you recruited your sister to get that first fever piece. The reason I highlighted that? Because it mirrors my own experience. My sister is always the one who's like yeah, I'm good. She's actually been part of some of the Indigenous tattoo schools that I've done. The funniest story is one of my early students was doing a skin stitch. For people who don't know what skin stitch is, you have a needle and thread. You dip the thread in and it goes underneath the skin for a couple of millimeters. Then you bring it out and you pull it all the way through and you create a tunnel filled with ink. She was in the middle of a stitch and she was like, oh, I can't do this. The needle is there, stuck in my sister's skin. My sister's like yeah, that's okay, you have it All encouraging, that's sweet.
Speaker 2:My sister was like you know is dope and was able to help bring her through, coax her through, being able to teach, shout out to sisters for all the things that they do. My sister I'll be like, oh well, somebody's coming to do a photo shoot or somebody's coming to do an article, can I tattoo you? She's always like yep.
Speaker 1:I'm in, yeah.
Speaker 2:I just wanted to highlight that I love that.
Speaker 1:I'm in for it. Yeah, that's solid for sure. I have a similar. Well, not really, but when I first moved to Edmonton, my boyfriend at the time was a piercing apprentice. I guess because I find the thought of getting skin stitching so petrifying, but that's because one of my clients told me it was the worst experience of her life Not worst experience, most painful experience but yeah, she's super proud of it. I wonder if I could go through it. I'm a baby when it comes to getting tattoos, but yeah. So the boyfriend at the time he needed to learn to pierce, but before going to an actual piercing they would take the I don't even know what they are, I'm not a piercing but the littler needles he needed to practice. So I went in and he did a bunch on my arm and then I was just like okay, but then when he pulled them out, then I had to look away. Yeah.
Speaker 2:I know a similar experience. The piercer at the first shop I worked at was learning how to do dermals and so she was like, can I try it out? So I had like two right here and then like, yeah, when she went to take them out, not the coolest experience.
Speaker 1:No, you got it done and taken out on the same day.
Speaker 2:No, no, I let them heal for six months or something. And then, yeah, she took them out and it was like not cool, I would say, skin stitching. My friend, lane Wilkin, who hand tapped this he's Filipino and he so we did a trade he tapped this and I skin stitched his leg and when I was done he was like oh dude, your ancestors are so cool Because he was like in terms of pain he's like stitch, tap, hand poke, then machine. So it was pretty cool and I would say it's more the visual that people get tricked out about it's like well, that shit's going under there.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Because you think, once it goes under the skin, those pain, those nerves are not there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, true, because it's on the surface of the skin.
Speaker 2:So you're doing that.
Speaker 1:How deep is it? You said Same as machine.
Speaker 2:Okay yeah, same as machine.
Speaker 1:How are you gauging that? Like, I guess, like a piercer would. But like are you pinching it? Or like because of the no? It's just under and through and you know you would One hand or two hand, Two.
Speaker 2:Yeah, two hand and you could. You know, that was one of the things, because I taught myself on my own leg. Okay, right, because there was nobody when. I started it doing it. You know, there's a couple like white dudes doing it and I reached out and they just didn't say nothing.
Speaker 1:Yeah Right, I've actually reached out to people in the past too about like things like that or like hey, you want to trade some knowledge, but no one ever writes back.
Speaker 2:Yeah nobody's like nah crickets right, and so I was like I can do it because I already knew how to use a machine. So when you go underneath you know, ah, that's too deep. That's going to blow out, or you know ah that's not.
Speaker 1:That's not going to.
Speaker 2:You know it's not deep enough.
Speaker 1:Is that the?
Speaker 2:one. Yeah, yeah, right here. You can see this is a thick ass line. So when I first started, I just grabbed whatever needle, threw it in the autoclave and sterilized it. So it's super big, and it was one of those needles that has the bump on the end, oh God. And so I pull it. I'm like nope, the force stitches with that, no, and so you can see they kind of get smaller and smaller.
Speaker 1:So you're doing it already using the string as well. Yeah, the string is what holds the ink.
Speaker 2:And so yeah, if you just did with just the needle, without the thread it wouldn't, you wouldn't get any big.
Speaker 1:I can't hold it like a yeah. The tube holds the yeah, that's fine, that makes sense. Yeah, it was a?
Speaker 2:Yeah, my wife took a video. I don't show it very often because I'm sitting in my underwear in the shop trying to stitch myself.
Speaker 1:But funny, we should send it to you at some point. I'm doing it to yourself to learn that's badass. I tattooed my own knee. And Well, I tattooed myself a couple of times, but tattooing my own knee was brutal.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I did this blackout.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you can only tattoo your lower legs pretty much, pretty much yeah.
Speaker 2:Once you get up here, it's just too awkward.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, it's weird yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Actually funny story. I tattooed myself when we had our closure during TikTok on. Yeah, there we go, I got it and so I'm tattooing myself and I was answering questions at the same time, so it took extra long. That's probably why it hurt so bad. But a bunch of people were like you're not supposed to be tattooing right now. I was like I'm tattooing myself Also in my home, but it was clean, yeah, but yeah, I got a lot of guff for that. But most people were really, really sweet, but yeah, just tattooing myself. I was almost like you know, tattooing's not supposed to be going on right now. I was like I think this is fine.
Speaker 2:You're like look again actually. Yeah, plus, besides, you look at half the fucking conventions and yeah fair.
Speaker 1:Dirty-esh everywhere Not talking about any convention in particular, but yeah.
Speaker 2:So what is your design process when it comes to ancestral designs?
Speaker 1:Ooh. Well, at the beginning I just would look up different artworks by like as traditional as I could get to newer people and just kind of seeing like what I could pick up was their process or what parts of the design were important, like the line weights and things like that. But now that I've kind of honed in on what's more my style because I feel like I have my own style that is really reflective of that. But also I feel like it's still very much a poppy tattoo. So at first I just read through.
Speaker 1:I have this beautiful app that my assistant has for me and she breaks it down perfectly for someone with ADHD. So I look at their sample pictures. She always only puts like the top ones in it and then just what they're looking for if they have like a specific tribe that they're wanting to have it based off of. And then, yeah, once I get an idea of like what it's supposed to look like, I really just think about it, like I'll read something maybe in the morning and think about it all day and like kind of give myself an idea of what I want to do different or what I liked about old pieces or if they had something. And then, when it comes down to drawing it, it's a matter of just scribbling out my spots and then, yeah, fixing it up. But most, a lot of the process is really thinking about it.
Speaker 1:I like plan out the location of the body because I really pride myself in my tattoo background and my tattoo background. My first teachings were to every part of the body has rules and the flow and location and the direction of things have spots that they're supposed to be in and whatnot. So I keep looking at that friggin light. But, yeah, so I, when I'm designing, I just really think about the location and go from there, because sometimes people also will write and be like oh, I'll have it on my neck, on my arm or on my leg, but I'm like I need us to make a decision.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly, yeah, yeah, I totally get that. Yeah, because your style, with the beadwork specifically, is simplified down so you're not doing like 800 beads or a palm size, you're doing 150, right, and so, oh God, I thought it was smaller.
Speaker 1:So I counted one piece, I did, and I was like I'm going to count in my head and see, and I counted two berries and it was 120 and I was like I'm not counting it yeah, exactly. I actually have an idea too.
Speaker 1:I want to maybe do a giveaway, but I don't, like I've never done one to have to plan it, but I thought it would be fun to do like a video of a piece and have it be like a jelly bean counting contest, but of my beads but I'd have to count them first. So, yeah, that sounds like a good giveaway. Yeah, yeah, that's cool.
Speaker 2:So how did you come up with that, instead of just rendering, say, like the stitch, you know the patch, you know people do the patches.
Speaker 1:It looks like a Donald Duck patch, you know you're rendering every detail and everything you're more taking the structure of yeah, exactly, I think what led there is like, if you look back at my old work, I've always done really pretty things and I always had pearls dripping in them. So those pearls are beads and I was like, well, what if I do that idea and I've been doing that forever and the way that I shadowed and highlighted them, but making that the bead. But I also was like if I do, each row that's just potentially over time going to bleed together, not be as legible, because I wanted to not include the black for this style unless it was a black bead and I wanted to use those colors as their shadow and use the white highlight as the reflection. So I figured if I did all that together one day it might look like a weird birthmark or something. So separating them for longevity, I thought, was the best one.
Speaker 1:So so far, everyone that's come back has been pretty bang on. And then I have done a couple where instead of rows of beads in between I've done some color. So that would be like where, like, the hide would be typically or whatever. So I've done some of that and I do like them too. But the ones that really seem to punch the best are having the separation and the skin.
Speaker 2:Well, skin, yeah, yeah, just helps to what's that.
Speaker 1:I actually might have to use this one pretty much.
Speaker 2:Cool. So yeah, and I guess that's really speaks to the training that you have as a tattoo artist and the mentorship that you got, teaching those rules and lessons and also teach or tattooing for as long as you've tattooed, being able to make those decisions in terms of design and longevity. So that's pretty cool. What I will? I guess I never asked how long have you been tattooing and what was that journey to be a tattoo artist.
Speaker 1:So well, yeah, I started tattooing in. I don't know the year, but it'll be nine years in October. Actually, that's when I started at the shop. I tattooed at Capital Tattoo. That's where my apprenticeship is from. That's here at Edmonton under Jessica Wright, or she's Jack Asakow Wright on Instagram.
Speaker 1:And, yeah, the process was pretty cool. My first weekend she took me to the Calgary Convention and was just like, okay, talk to people, get to know the industry, we'll make some friends. And just like watch a tattoo of it. So that was fun. Just like talking about tattoos, getting to tell people no one had any time, but yeah. So then after that, it was just getting to know the shop, getting to know the cleaning protocols and having homework. So I was just like here's this, here's this. Actually, one of my friends, katie, came up with this idea. She didn't work at the shop, she was just there all the time. So they made a jar where there would just be random things in it and it was called a pop quiz, hot shot, and I would have to pull out of there and draw whatever was on it. So that was fun. But, yeah, just lots and lots of drawing and getting to know how to take care of everything, keeping doing blood worn pathogens, things like that.
Speaker 1:And then after like six months I believe it was oh and parts of the machine, all that. I think it was after like six months, then she I had been doing her like set up and tear down. Then I came in one day and I was allowed to tattoo a banana. Yeah, so just things like that. We like slowly progressed up. I think banana was my first. And then one of the guys did a tiny portrait of, oh now, clint Eastwood on an orange and he did half. And now he's like now do you do the other half? And I actually did a pretty good job. He might have looked like he was half zombie, but but then we peeled that off and I think just still has that at her shop. But yeah, but yeah, and then just like fake skin, all that stuff, and and then I think it was after years when I started tattooing people, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Process. Yeah, I was like oh, maybe, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Right now I'm using the Goodpen by Goodguy. Yeah, it's really cool. I believe they're coming out with like a full wireless one, but this one's a battery pack. My business partner I think she has crap I'm going to mess this up but I think she has a Cheyenne. But just seeing her sometimes she'll just walk around the bed and tattoo from over here and I'm like I do want to ditch the cord. So, yeah, so I got the Goodpen. It's a really good machine and I love the guys, the Goodguy. So I went and was playing around with the stuff that they had and, yeah, so I've got that one. Before that I was using the Zion and I had one right stuff. It was called the Hornet. That one was a pretty good one. I got that from Northern. But yeah, my last three machines oh, also, I break everything. I just I'm a tornado. So, yeah, I treat my things not the best, so I go through them pretty quickly. But yeah, my last three machines have been pens. Before that I was all Neotets.
Speaker 2:Yeah yeah, I know Rob and Cam from Goodguy, just because the shop I worked at and where I grew up actually is where Goodguy.
Speaker 1:Supply is in San Bernard. Yeah, I love Rob and his wife Natalie.
Speaker 2:Yeah, rob did this right sleeve which.
Speaker 1:I'm going to get fly. I'm not knocked out, but that's fun.
Speaker 2:Get him to do that, yeah one of my friends will, but yeah, no. So I know who they are. Yeah, awesome and dope guys.
Speaker 1:They're the best people. Have you ever done? The Kelowna convention.
Speaker 2:No, I haven't done Kelowna, partly because I lived in Salmon Arm, so it's just real close.
Speaker 1:Yeah, right the convention itself is so fun.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah.
Speaker 1:And Rob. It makes it such an event for the artists. There's food and there's an event every night and I feel like I make the most friends there. But, the first day is the best, the Thursday before it starts, because he rents like a pontoon boat and takes you all out all day. It's really great Dope, yeah, I really love that convention.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'll have to. I haven't been doing lots of I don't even know how to say it like Western conventions. A lot of the stuff I do is indigenous events and stuff. Yeah, it makes sense.
Speaker 1:So New.
Speaker 2:Zealand and Samoa and all that type of stuff. But, yeah, probably time to start moving back in that direction. They're fun, yeah, totally, I just love making friends. Yeah, dope, yeah, 100%.
Speaker 1:It's more about the friendship than tattooing in a lot of places like that. But it is really nice because I'm doing the Winnipeg one this year as well and I booked up so fast because people that in that area they don't want to come to Edmonton. It's a little far so being able to head out that way. I do that one once a year as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's what I've been. Well, some indigenous tattoo artists have a bit of a challenge when they go to some of the Western conventions, and a lot of times I just share with them. Just remember that you're there for those people, the community because I always end up whenever I'm at a convention. All the Indians end up around.
Speaker 1:West End.
Speaker 2:right, yeah, totally, and so yeah, I always say that's really why you're there is to serve those people in that community.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly. My partner came to one with me last year and it was nice because people would be like, oh, is she native? And then he'd be like, yeah, we're from whatever. And it was nice to listen and look up and be like, hey, where are you from Just having that normal how we interact with each other at a Westernized event. It was fun. It's just like yeah, it's a good feeling. Yeah, totally.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's kind of funny because I always say, yeah, all the natives find me. Because even when we were in New Zealand, at the New Zealand Tattoo and Arts Festival in Taranga, the Amygma lady came in. So a native from here, from Canada, rolled up and was like hey, and so I handpoked her grandma's peaked cap design in her arm.
Speaker 2:So they found us, and then her friend came with her drum and her flute and, yeah, the Brona Han was there and we did like a little round dance in the middle of the convention because all the Maori folks were there and all the indigenous folks from across the world. So it's pretty cool to do that. And then actually I had just moved to Nova Scotia when I went to that convention, so when I came back she was like a couple hours away.
Speaker 1:Yeah, totally, and she'd come. That's cool. We made a connection on the other side of the world, right? Yeah, that's cool that you do things like that outside of Canada, like I think of traveling a little in the States and stuff, because the J Treaty stuff would have the ability to. But yeah, I like to go all over like you do. It's really cool. I get nervous about stuff like that, though.
Speaker 2:Why? What makes you nervous?
Speaker 1:Well, like what if I don't pack everything, or like I've not been here before?
Speaker 2:I have people help. Everybody's there to support.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's cool. I get nervous from everything. Oh yeah, you can tell that, I'm sure.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, everyone you know, especially with those indigenous conventions. We went down to Aotearoa to New Zealand in September, october, for a 10 day festival and then three day convention All indigenous artists from all over. So it's pretty dope to be able to check out and everybody's there to help you succeed and lift you up. You know, it's like really actually a transformational experience from my experience is like you know, not to sound not appreciative for the non-indigenous folks in my life, but when you roll up to those spots you're like these are my people.
Speaker 1:Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 2:You know, not putting anyone down, yeah, yeah, just that feeling of like, yeah, I'm home.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, it's like a family feeling, for sure, totally.
Speaker 2:Yeah. The next question I had was you know you do a fair number of guest spots and conventions. You know how was that being and what impact has it had on your work.
Speaker 1:Well, I guess because the shop that I started at they really enjoyed doing the conventions because that's, you know, how you get your name out there a little more and make buds in the industry and that's helpful for going to other places to touch you and stuff. So that's kind of like how I started. I've always done that. So, yeah, I feel like just that's why I feel that I have a following in like Manitoba and in BC and stuff is because of getting out there and doing things in other shops. But I also feel like when I come back from stuff like that, my work always grows because seeing other people and just like feeling more inspired. I always tell people you want to get tattooed for me after I come back from somewhere. That's when I'm on fire, yeah.
Speaker 2:And you appreciate how convenient it is that all your shit is like that.
Speaker 1:Totally. It's like I'm not looking around for an hour trying to set up.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly that's what I always tell people. All my students and people I mentor is like. If you think it's going to take an hour, book two.
Speaker 1:Yeah, right.
Speaker 2:Because part of that setting up or, you know, going to the bathroom when it's on the other side of the convention floor and yeah, so just extend what you think it's going to be Exactly yeah, and then the diesel machines are going to break, or yeah definitely yeah, there's always some problems, so you've always got to at least book some allotted time in case there's like some lap over between glands. Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because I did that, I think the first couple conventions I did, and it was just so stressful right, yeah, like, come back in 30 minutes.
Speaker 1:No, come back in 30 more. Yeah, exactly, no, come back in another hour. Yeah, what's tomorrow, exactly.
Speaker 2:I already asked you that one about the machines. Yeah, I've totally. Absolutely. What would you say? This quote resonates with me. You said it can be a bummer when you're done tattooing someone.
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. When you spend your time with someone, you see them every three weeks, four weeks, whenever you see them, whenever they can come in, and then you finish a project. You're like, well, you want to book something else, you want to meet up.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1:You know, you just exchange so much of yourselves and, yeah, when you're done, it's like, oh, that's really sad because it's such a fun experience and you, yeah, like I said, you exchange so much. So, yeah, I like want to. Or, for an example, I tattooed a friend is a friend now, but we did a whole sleeve on him and I often talk about how that's one of my favorite sleeves and so I think about that one a lot, because people ask what my favorites are. And then he just booked in for a second sleeve. So now I get to have that experience again, get to hang out, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. No, I totally resonate with that. You know doing doing a lot of body suits, bigger projects, sleeves, backs, all of that type of stuff, and so you spend 100, 120 hours with somebody you know just bullshitting around hanging out. It's like oh, I don't get to see you in the next couple of months.
Speaker 2:Like you know, it's totally it's sad and actually I just finished a piece here where it's a double sleeve and across the front and back chest and back piece upper back and the my collaborator was like I'm excited but sad you know cause like let's do a touch up every month. I'm just hanging out, so it just came to mind. When you, when you think about that, is there any difference between your indigenous clients and the non-indigenous clients, or is it pretty much across the board?
Speaker 1:It's mostly across the board. I'd say, yeah, I feel like connect with all my clients, but I also always feel like, do you ever notice how to, or just like, draw people in that are very similar to them?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Big time, Like I've always noticed that at the old shop, when someone would walk in and be like that's, someone says that's someone says I'm just guessing Cause you can like so yeah, like I feel like I have a connection with most of my clients because of that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, big time.
Speaker 1:I think that you're kind of you draw them in.
Speaker 2:Yeah, people that are similar to you, yeah.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, I do connect with most of my clients but but yeah, I do feel like sometimes at the end of a day I like have no voice left from all the big anti-lapse with my indigenous clients?
Speaker 2:Yeah, totally.
Speaker 1:Like the whole building started like oh, that's a, that's a laughing day, Like it's real loud in there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah it's kind of funny. That's also the experience. I think it was. Somebody was coming in to get some, you know, ancestral work and one of the artists was like just giggling around and, you know, being maybe a little bit rude, and they were like, oh, somebody's getting this super meaningful tattoo and we're joking about this over here. Yeah, but it's like whatever, that's just what it is, you know, that's what, that's part of the joy of those spaces.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:You know, it's just the different people and I always enjoy it because I always say the other artists who are non-indigenous in the shop that I work at they get an education you know, because we're always talking about colonization. You know the Indian act and all that shit and you know I tattoo a lot of professors and you know professional Indians and yeah, everybody's like holy shit, my client leaves and they're like I didn't know that I was like oh, what was that? What are we talking about?
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's just me and one other person in my shop. So, now that you mentioned it, yeah, she must know a lot of stuff. Yeah, because, yeah, we get to talk about a lot and yeah, and same goes, like so many of my clients are such professionals.
Speaker 2:And like.
Speaker 1:I love when they come in and they're like work attire and then they're like full sleeve.
Speaker 2:Yeah, totally.
Speaker 1:It's cool.
Speaker 2:So in Instagram posts you mentioned that many of your clients feel especially with the beadwork and the ancestral visual language that you're using that they feel that this work is a type of ceremony. Can you talk about that a little bit?
Speaker 1:I feel like it depends on the piece, but like when things are very sentimental, like, say, it's a piece of beading that came from someone's ship in or something and they've been wanting something like this for so long when they get it, and like the things we talk about and the also the physical and emotional pain of getting the tattoo, I feel like coming out when you're finished. They just feel this like joy and like they've just gone through ceremony. I feel.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know, when I think of that word ceremony, I think of it as a process of building a relationship with something you know You're going through that ceremony to be more connected to it. And so when I think of indigenous clients specifically, a lot of times we're disconnected from who we are as our indigenous community, our identity and our indigenousity, and so that tattoo is a ceremony to get to know ourselves better.
Speaker 1:Yeah, for sure. That's a really good way to put it. You're good with words.
Speaker 2:Probably why I'm talking, and you can pick this one up or not pick it up. In a past article you talked about the fear and anxiety of people being judgmental. That I believe was in connection to modeling today, what is that anxiety about?
Speaker 1:I guess the same thing. Yeah, I'm always. That's why I'm awful at posting on social media, because I'm like people are gonna zoom on this, they're gonna pick it apart. It's just, I've seen people do it, I've done it myself, so the judgment is my biggest anxiety. I'd say, but yeah, that's why I have to. I don't go on social media very often.
Speaker 1:I have to be like okay, we need to make a post. It's been a minute, yeah. Social media, I think, is a huge reason for anxiety for me, but it's also the reason why I am where I am, which is weird, Cause, like, I started modeling and got more jobs because of posting on social media. I got a bigger following because of social media which got me my tattoo apprenticeship, and I have a following now which gets me 100% of my clients, Like everything is through social media. So, as much as it like it's like a high high, a low, low, yeah big time.
Speaker 2:I totally. I can resonate with that for sure in terms of my own experience. I just don't fuck with social media that much anymore. I guess it'll be more once this stuff starts coming out Gonna have to.
Speaker 2:But for me it's just yeah, it's that balance between sharing yourself and then also exposing yourself, putting yourself out there and I would just say that less people, I would argue and of course this is probably controversial for some folks, but I don't think we're actually living those ancestral teachings of care and compassion and for bringing people in instead of calling people out I've said it a couple of times now with other folks I've been chatting with is we sit in a circle because everybody's voice counts. And there's actually the teaching behind this tattoo which is on my neck, which is a Maori rendition of the Four Food Chiefs story and it talks about, you know, fly being the most important voice and sometimes the most annoying voice, because, of course, fly zzzz out of here.
Speaker 2:You know, Come on, get out of here, Fly. The most annoying voice sometimes is the most important voice, and so, yeah, I just think I would encourage people to reach back into their own teachings or ancestral stories to find those ethical considerations, Because I don't think the things that we're living by today, especially as Indigenous folks, are rooted in those things. I think they're rooted in Western philosophical traditions which that shit was imported. So you know, look at the shit you're spouting and living by.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, fair. I got a bunch of kids' books. Maybe I'll like go back and read all those for some posy vibes.
Speaker 2:Yeah, totally.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I had a thought, but now it's escaped me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that happens lots. Take it away. Then you're like, oh yeah that's a good Wait.
Speaker 1:what Was that a thing? It's ran away.
Speaker 2:That's all right. So now, how do you deal with some of that anxiety and what is your process of dealing with it?
Speaker 1:A few things I've always been kind of into, like Indigenous medicine type things. So I do make a lot of teas and things for people when they're in a way for different yeah, different things going on. Like my partner gets bed, tell me, I make him something, or someone's feeling stressed, I make them something. So I was doing that a lot for myself before, but there became a point when you can't always say there's not enough lavender to smell anymore.
Speaker 2:I have to be medicated.
Speaker 1:So I'm on medication for a lot of things, which helps a lot. Right now I'm on the lowest that I can be for my anxiety, which feels really good but I'm not sure coming off as an option. But yeah, I find that and just yeah, my dogs my dogs are a huge help for when I'm yeah, for when I'm feeling away being outside. Now that's getting nice again, just walking outside without shoes on. Yeah, like you know, yeah, just things to like ground you, I guess.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I appreciate you sharing that with me, of course.
Speaker 1:I'm pretty open about my mental health, so that's fine. Yeah, no, it's good.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's also one reason why I asked it, because on your social media you are open about it.
Speaker 1:I wouldn't be like yeah yeah, I heard you got some stuff going on, yeah no.
Speaker 1:I think it's important. A lot of people personal message me and thank me for how much I'm opened with those things, because in my journey with my own mental health I have tried things that didn't work and tried things that have and I feel like not talking, or people not talking about those things has been like why there's sometimes a stigma around it, whereas like I don't care, I got stuff going on and I wanna feel good, so I'm gonna talk about it to maybe help other people feel good.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, and I think, when I think about that, I would say that that is a form of courageousness. Oh, thank you. Being able to be a little bit vulnerable and let people know what's going on. That's really good and I think, one of the good reasons why having you on here is important. Not everybody shares it and it's open about it. So, yeah, props to you, just holding you up for that.
Speaker 1:Thank you, I appreciate it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:What are you thinking you were gonna say? Something I?
Speaker 1:was going to, but it left again. Oh, I was gonna tell you something that I'm going to try for, also anxiety stuff, but I've had it for like a month and I haven't done it yet. But Vancouver has one of the first psilocybin dispensaries now. So I got their entry level things to see if it helps. But they promised that I wouldn't get high because I've never tried that. Yeah, but it's been sitting there and I'm like, okay, on a day that I don't work I will try one. But she said people take like a bunch of them, but it's something I might try to improve mood. And they also had some that she recommended that will help with drawing.
Speaker 2:Ah dope, yeah no. I've heard a lot of friends and colleagues who use for their anxiety depression some of the scientific studies around the ability to rewire some of those circuits in your brain Like, yeah, fuck, why not?
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I asked in a post on Facebook cause, again, I talk about everything and so many people responded and every single comment was good. So I'm like, okay, well, I'll try one day, but I haven't yet, so I'll let you know how it goes.
Speaker 2:It's pretty jacked up that it's most. Of that should still legal too, though.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's natural yeah.
Speaker 2:And you know when you think about the health benefits for it, you know.
Speaker 1:Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2:Like what.
Speaker 1:Yeah, big pharma, yeah Total.
Speaker 2:So I thought it was funny that in one of your early articles the ones I mentioned about opening a punk beauty salon or becoming a tattoo artist in a recent article or interview you said that you have a dream of opening an Indigenous tattoo studio. Do you want to talk about that?
Speaker 1:Yeah, my direction I guess has changed a little. I would still say it would be a reflection of me as a person, but indigenized, yeah, I would like to open a space and not have it just Indigenous people tattooing me yeah.
Speaker 1:I would like to have a bigger space. I love working with just them, but I do miss being around a little more people. So eventually the goal is to have just a space that I want to have like a monthly Indigenous art showcase kind of thing. So it would be like a spot that you could come by and be like I wonder who's showcased, and it would be like, oh, this month is this beater or this month is a person who's those, and then have, if any sales were made from it, 100% go to them. But a way to talk more about Indigenous art as well, as like I create things not as often as I should, but like have a space to have those things available, because my space right now is very little. And, yeah, just like indigenize the industry up a little bit.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and make it more visible and take up a bit more space.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly, yeah, totally.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean this podcast isn't coming out, probably till the new year. So I've been thinking for a long time doing a similar type of thing and having an art gallery. That's just kind of friends who do art all across the world. So some Maori stuff, some Northwest Coast Haida Clinkit, some Anishinaabe artists, just the packet with Indigenous stuff and probably invite guest artists to come in from Samoa and Fiji and.
Speaker 2:Tahiti and across Turtle Island, and because I always get requests like, hey, can you do this Indigenous tattoo and it's like a Samoan tattoo or a. Maori tattoo. I'm like yo, I'm not Samoan and I'm not Maori. So I can't do that, so bringing somebody in. But if I had a shop where it was like yo wait six months and a Maori is coming to do that work and we can book you in, you know, just so, just you know, bringing those Indigenous artists.
Speaker 1:Connections all over.
Speaker 2:yeah, Bring it in here and highlight the work that we do. Totally. I love that. Hey there, listeners, it's Dion Casas, your host from the Transformative Marks podcast, where we dive deep into the world of Indigenous tattooing, ancestral skin marking and cultural tattooing. If you found value in our episodes we've made you laugh or you've learned something new consider showing your support by buying me a coffee on Co-Ficom. Co-fi is this incredibly creator-friendly platform where you can support me directly for just the cost of a cup of coffee. No subscriptions, no hidden fees, just a simple one-time gesture that goes a long way in keeping me on the air. Plus, Co-Fi doesn't take a cut, so every penny goes directly into improving the podcast, From updating equipment to visiting with new guests as I go into recording season two. So if you like what you hear and you'd like to help me keep the lights on, head over to my Co-Fi page, wwwko-ficom. Forward slash Transformative Marks. The link is in the show notes.
Speaker 1:And then they can go to your shop and then come this way to mine.
Speaker 2:Totally to a tour. Set up a tour package, holiday package yeah, we'll be like, and then here's the sites.
Speaker 1:Yeah exactly.
Speaker 2:It's just a fun little quote that I got from one of your old old, I think it was a modeling article Says maybe one day I'll be a super awesome tattooer.
Speaker 1:I can't believe you found these things. It's so funny. I love it. That's cool. I said that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I guess I brought that up just to lift you up and to share that. I think that that day has arrived and you're a super awesome tattooer.
Speaker 1:I love that.
Speaker 2:So just lifting you up and being able to, what would you say? Celebrate your achievement.
Speaker 1:Yeah, totally. Because I think that's the way that we rise together as indigenous folks is lifting each other up, Reflection and then lifting each other up. But yeah, Totally, that's cool that's funny.
Speaker 2:Do you have any other thoughts or questions or ideas that come up from our conversation, or yeah, anything you wanna ask me, or whatever?
Speaker 1:I don't know nothing. That's like shooting off the top of my head. When I first got here, I was like could I ask you a bunch of questions? And then I was like this is his podcast, I don't need to interview him.
Speaker 2:But yeah, you can if you have any questions. That came up, I'm totally down.
Speaker 1:Well, you've talked about how you were tattooing before you kind of incorporated more of your indigenous things. How long have you been in the industry?
Speaker 2:So I started tattooing in 2009. And then shortly thereafter, I was actually Rob's shop that I went into and I was getting work done on the sleeve and I was sorting through all the tattoo magazines, because a lot of shops have stacks of magazines all over. I was just sorting through and I was like, ah, same old shit. There was this little pamphlet and it's called tattooing face and body painting of the Thompson Indians.
Speaker 2:And so the Thompson Indians is one of the names that was given to us as Intlacutmuc people. So we use Intlacutmuc as our ancestral name for ourselves and this booklet. I was like what the fuck? Like our ancestors had tattoos and I always say that my head just about popped off because I didn't know, I didn't realize that nobody talked about it.
Speaker 2:And so I was working in the bar industry a bouncer, bartender, all that shit at the time so I was just like that's cool, I could do master's research on that. I didn't have an undergrad, I wasn't in a master's research.
Speaker 1:I don't know why I was like, hey, I can do a master's Straight to it.
Speaker 2:And so life went another direction for a while and then I got in. I think that was around 2006. And then, 2009, I started. I went back to get my undergrad and I was in this class called Indigenous Historical Perspectives, taught by my mentor, margot Tamez. So shout out to Margot, you're dope. And yeah, I was like. She was like, find something you're interested in historically and research it. And so I was like, oh, I remember that magazine. Of course, I didn't write it down, I didn't write the author, I didn't write anything.
Speaker 1:I just knew it was about our tattoo.
Speaker 2:So I found it eventually and I wrote an article on it, wrote a paper on it, One of the, I don't know. It was pretty cheesy and I looked back at it. But it was the beginning of that research, and so, after I started my apprenticeship, I started doing that research more and more and more till 2012 is when I first stitched my own leg.
Speaker 2:And so I got what's called an undergraduate research award and that whole summer I went to the museums, I went out on the land looking at the pictographs, looking at the baskets. Doing all that work and I was like realize the power of the revival of indigenous tattooing. You know, because I researched what was happening in New Zealand with the Maori folks and then with L Frank and the ladies with the triple 11s in Southern California, and you know L Frank says that in her experience getting her facial markings it was like reaching hands across time and holding hands with their past aunties, grandmas, great-grandmothers right.
Speaker 2:And she says that, or they say that the youth today are like seaweeds without roots and that our tattooing is like roots for those youth so they can stand there in the turbulent waters of the colonial project. And so for me I was like fuck, you know, I know how to tattoo, I know that we had tattooing and I know the power of it, and so I was like time to do that. So I went and stitched my own leg hand, poked it.
Speaker 1:That's from that time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, from that, that was like 2012. The end of the summer of 2012,. Sitting in the shop, my mentor, Carla Romanuck. So big shout out to Carla. She's now sold that shop, but yeah, still got a shout out to her.
Speaker 1:I love that.
Speaker 2:And then, yeah, just started doing that work and, you know, moving into more bigger work, so bodysuit, sleeves because I felt uncomfortable about doing more. What would you say like the smaller designs that we would have done traditionally and sharing it with non-Indian cut milk, non-indigenous folks. And so I developed this larger work because of course, you can look at it and you can be like that's in the cut milk. You know that's indigenous, but us, we can look at it and go, oh well, that's not traditional or that's not ancestral. So when we roll up and I see a smaller piece on somebody who's from my community or community that's connected, I'll be like, ah, you're in cut milk or you're seal or you know, you know so just starting to make some of those protocols for myself and developing it.
Speaker 1:That's cool.
Speaker 2:Yeah, kind of went all over the place there.
Speaker 1:No, no, I love that. I love the story. That's really, really awesome and like the idea of like the smaller tattoo as opposed to the larger one. That's cool. Yeah, that's awesome. And you worked in. That was a tattoo shop that you started in yeah, so have you always stayed in tattoo shops? Or you said you travel a lot and stuff.
Speaker 2:No, I've always had a. I've always worked in a shop, except for nine months in 2018 to 19,. I worked at Acadia University as the coordinator of indigenous affairs and student advising, so I did min role, yeah, and I was just like. I've been a tattooing pirate for way too long. So you know, go to work nine to five and get four weeks vacation. I had the tattoo school that year. I went to New Zealand for two weeks, so with the tattoo school at six weeks and the New Zealand trip that'd be six weeks or whatever, and so I was just like nah.
Speaker 1:I just can't do that, can't have that. Yeah, yeah, I need to go somewhere, like every month, I can't have a nine to five, yeah.
Speaker 2:Just responsibilities too, because you know teaching and mentoring people and hand poke and skin stitch. Yeah, yeah. People are like, hey, I'm doing this thing, do you want to come out? And I'm always like, but now I have more of the ability to do that but I just have to be more picky just because of the amount of work that needs to be done.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:It's cool to see how many gatherings and events there are, just because, yeah, when I started it was me and a couple other folks.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's cool. Yeah, it's really neat to see too how the like or how cultural how cultural tattoos are like there's so many more artists now and, and I think just like being able to see who's doing what on social media too is kind of cool to like to to figure out like, yeah, I just go on little tangents of like looking at hashtags to see who I can find and stuff like what are they up to over there? Yeah, totally yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, no, it's, and that was also one of the reasons why I wanted to, you know, have a conversation with you. Is, you know, coming from the professional tattoo artist side and then incorporating some of that visual language from your ancestry?
Speaker 1:Yeah, super cool.
Speaker 2:And also, you know, stepping into that colonial space of conventions, that type of stuff, you know not putting down any of our non-indigenous friends and colleagues. But you know, sometimes those spaces aren't always what they seem and they're not always inclusive and don't always welcome. Yeah, a lot of people find you know some racism in those spots. Yeah, it's so cool to see you taking up some of that space.
Speaker 1:Thank you, yeah, here I am yeah. Well, that was the thing too. Also, trying to get into the industry when I was younger, it was like the tattoo industry itself is very intimidating, like it was always scary looking dudes telling you you're at work, sucked if you wanted an apprentice or a critique or whatever, but yeah, I guess just like pushing through it and being like I'm going to be here. So yeah, totally yeah.
Speaker 2:And it's exciting to see the transformation of your work. You know and look back and you know you did a, like you said, kind of some neotrad stuff and then more black and gray yeah. And yeah, now, that kind of that melding of those two to the more beadwork, ornamental and ancestral stuff is cool.
Speaker 1:Thank you. Yeah, and that's another thing too. Like I do still do a fair bit of the black work type designs and stuff, or just like repeat clients coming back for similar work, and then I have started doing a lot more of the neotrad stuff again. Like my indigenous clients have gotten like the beadwork and then my more solid florals, and then they're like well, I want like a bear, can you do it like this? I'm like yes, that's how I started.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's what I used to do, yeah.
Speaker 1:So I've been booking a lot more of those and booking a lot larger pieces in that old style again. So it's cool how it's just kind of those styles that I've always loved. It's not that I wanted to stop doing that, it's just what you're posting at the time. So I like that I can go to work and I do the same thing every day.
Speaker 2:Molding and growing. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm actually moving more strictly to doing the ancestral inca cut McBlock stuff yeah. Cool, you know I still do some watercolor and stuff like that for people that are like old clients.
Speaker 1:People who care about her. Yeah, old clients. Something to pay the bill? No, no, totally.
Speaker 2:Yeah, sometimes just doing that work that needs to be done and realizing that we can always do exactly what we want Exactly yeah. It is a business and you have to treat every client and collaborator with that profession.
Speaker 1:Yeah so yeah, there's a couple of rules in my submission form of things that I don't take on, and script is one of them. But for a little bit, a couple months ago, books were starting to slow down. People were traveling again instead of just wanting to get tattooed, and I was like I might have to tattoo some script.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I'm like taking whatever on, yeah, so it's nice. It's sometimes you can choose what you want to do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was. Yeah, I always tell the because there's two apprentices at the shop I'm at now Not my apprentices, but they're there. And so I always say like when I started it was mostly script and lettering. That was like the popular thing and everybody wanted it on their ribs.
Speaker 1:Yes, yeah, my first tattoo was on my ribs. Yeah, I was just like really.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, just get used to doing everything. Yeah, totally.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I've done a couple realism tiny things and then like dabbled in a couple other things. But it's nice because I know, like, what I'm strong at and what I'm not.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I'm like let me just suggest someone who's better for this project.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, totally.
Speaker 1:So it's nice to be able to have that flexibility and not have to take on everything that walks in the door. Yeah, totally.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I love it because it's big projects.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And I love it because you know it's connected to you, know it's connected to you, know my ancestral's visual language, you know being able to highlight and put those forward. You know, yeah, from my perspective, there's enough folks doing all that other stuff, and there's just me doing the work for my own community.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's awesome.
Speaker 2:So you know, bringing it forward and highlighting the brilliance and the beauty of my ancestral visual language.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love that.
Speaker 2:Anything else, come up for you.
Speaker 1:Nope.
Speaker 2:Cool. Well, I super appreciate your time. Thank you and thank. I'm thankful that you took the opportunity to come and have a conversation with me.
Speaker 1:So do I.
Speaker 2:You know, I hope we can do another one in the future. Yeah, update Maybe yeah totally, when you open your new space.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Awesome, I love that and you know, maybe at some point come and do a little documentary on you or something I do. I'm calling them what are they? Ancestral skin markers.
Speaker 1:Oh, I love that I have five minute documentaries on Cool, I'm an indigenous tattoo artist I would love that.
Speaker 2:And again just lifting you up for who you are as a person and also who you are as an artist, and I would just encourage you to keep going the way that you're going, because it's awesome.
Speaker 1:Thank you, I appreciate it yeah.
Speaker 2:Hey everyone, thanks for stopping by and taking this journey with me through this episode. I hope you enjoyed it. I'll just ask that you would go and subscribe, if you haven't already done so and if you have subscribed, thank you very much. I appreciate you. Following this journey, I just want you to remember that, no matter who you are, where you're from, what you've done or what you've been through, that you were amazing, that you were loved, and that we need you here today and going into the future, so that we can transform this world for the better through our collective thoughts, actions, feelings and our compassion for each other as human beings.
Speaker 2:Head on over to next week's episode, where I'll be talking to Natalia Rojas, a Tagalog hand-tap tattoo practitioner based out of Hawaii. In this episode, we talk about Natalia's journey into learning how to use Filipino hand-tap tattoo tools, where every coffee helps me to bring you the content that you love. So head over to my Ko-Fi page and let's make something great together. And the last thing that I will ask you is to do me a solid and share this episode with somebody that you think will enjoy it. Thanks a lot and see you next week.