#015 When Stacy Fayant, a Métis and Cree member of the Peepeekisis First Nation, began to etch her pain and heritage into her skin, she tapped into an ancient well of healing and expression. Our latest episode takes you through her extraordinary transition from harboring inner turmoil to becoming a beacon of cultural revival through ancestral skin marking. Stacy's narrative is not just about ink under the skin; it's a testimony to the profound ways traditional tattoo practices can unite communities, serve as medicine, and rekindle a sense of identity on Turtle Island.
This conversation is a raw and honest look at the pain that precedes personal growth. Stacy speaks to the cathartic role that body modifications, like ear stretching, played in her journey through grief and the resilience needed to navigate life's trials. Her story with Earthline Tattoo Collective underscores the importance of high health standards and training in the tattoo industry and their ability to command respect, even from skeptics. Her insights shed light on the delicate ethics of care that tattooing demands, ensuring that the art form is both safe and empowering, particularly for Indigenous women.
Our episode wraps with the vibrant hues of artistic growth and the celebration of Indigenous joy. Stacy illustrates how her artistry has evolved, guided by the narratives of her life, including motherhood and the process of healing from loss. She emphasizes the significance of tattoos and scars as indelible chapters of our stories and the importance of embracing body art without succumbing to societal pressures. As we close, we extend a heartfelt invitation to our listeners to join us in spreading love and support, sharing these stories that bridge past and present, as we envision an empathetic future together.
I hope you have enjoyed this episode, and I am excited to travel the world of Indigenous tattooing with you as we visit with friends and colleagues from across the globe doing the work.
You can find Stacey at:
Instagram @staceyfayant
Check out my tattoo work at:
https://www.consumedbyink.com
Instagram @dionkaszas
Buy me a Coffee at:
https://ko-fi.com/transformativemarks
I acknowledge the support of the Canada Council for the Arts
#015 When Stacy Fayant, a Métis and Cree member of the Peepeekisis First Nation, began to etch her pain and heritage into her skin, she tapped into an ancient well of healing and expression. Our latest episode takes you through her extraordinary transition from harboring inner turmoil to becoming a beacon of cultural revival through ancestral skin marking. Stacy's narrative is not just about ink under the skin; it's a testimony to the profound ways traditional tattoo practices can unite communities, serve as medicine, and rekindle a sense of identity on Turtle Island.
This conversation is a raw and honest look at the pain that precedes personal growth. Stacy speaks to the cathartic role that body modifications, like ear stretching, played in her journey through grief and the resilience needed to navigate life's trials. Her story with Earthline Tattoo Collective underscores the importance of high health standards and training in the tattoo industry and their ability to command respect, even from skeptics. Her insights shed light on the delicate ethics of care that tattooing demands, ensuring that the art form is both safe and empowering, particularly for Indigenous women.
Our episode wraps with the vibrant hues of artistic growth and the celebration of Indigenous joy. Stacy illustrates how her artistry has evolved, guided by the narratives of her life, including motherhood and the process of healing from loss. She emphasizes the significance of tattoos and scars as indelible chapters of our stories and the importance of embracing body art without succumbing to societal pressures. As we close, we extend a heartfelt invitation to our listeners to join us in spreading love and support, sharing these stories that bridge past and present, as we envision an empathetic future together.
I hope you have enjoyed this episode, and I am excited to travel the world of Indigenous tattooing with you as we visit with friends and colleagues from across the globe doing the work.
You can find Stacey at:
Instagram @staceyfayant
Check out my tattoo work at:
https://www.consumedbyink.com
Instagram @dionkaszas
Buy me a Coffee at:
https://ko-fi.com/transformativemarks
I acknowledge the support of the Canada Council for the Arts
Because that's really all we ask of people. Right Is to not come with your negativity. Why? Why you gotta come and be. Yeah. Be a jerk about stuff, right? Yeah, because it is that feeling like why would somebody with a face tattoo make you sick? Yeah. You're choosing to be dramatic the.
Speaker 3:Transformative Marks podcast explores how indigenous tattoo artists, cultural tattoo practitioners and ancestral skin markers transform this world for the better Out by dot, line by line and stitch by stitch. My name is Dion Casas. I'm a Hungarian Métis and Intlacopak professional tattoo artist and ancestral skin marker. I started the work of reviving my ancestral Intlacopak skin marking practice over a decade ago. I've helped, supported and trained practitioners and tattoo artists here on Turtle Island. In this podcast, I sit down with indigenous tattoo artists, cultural tattoo practitioners and ancestral skin markers from across the globe, bringing you behind the scenes of this powerful, transformative and spiritual work.
Speaker 1:I'm Stacy Feont and I'm Métis Cree Soto from Regina Saskatchewan and I'm a member of Papikasist First Nation.
Speaker 3:Awesome. So first thing I wanted to explore with you is just the journey that you've had coming to be an ancestral skin marker or cultural tattoo practitioner. What was that journey to becoming the practitioner you are to be speaking with me?
Speaker 1:Wow, that's a long journey, I think In some ways it seemed like quite sudden, but really the journey itself was there. I guess through my whole life I often introduced myself to people saying I was very angry growing up and through my whole life my tattooing has been one of the only things that's changed that. So growing up, of course, I had a lot of trauma and stuff as an indigenous person and saw my dad go through a lot of difficult things. I was really angry at Canada for all of that. Then, when I was about 30, I had a four month old daughter and something really really hard happened in our lives. I couldn't see a way through, I couldn't see hope, I couldn't see a future. But I knew I had to learn to be happy again, to teach my daughter to be happy, and so I faked it. I faked laughing and I faked smiling for her. Around that time I had been stretching my earlobes and I found that it helped me get through that I had to come into the present and stop worrying about the past or regretting things, worrying about the future.
Speaker 1:At the same time I saw a documentary about tattooing. I think it was in the Philippines. It was a long time ago and they were talking about how tattoo is used as medicine and how it brings communities together and is used for healing. I was like, wow, I wish my culture had something like that. So I just went along. And then one day on Facebook I saw someone post something about indigenous cultural tattooing in this part of the world and I was like what? I didn't know about that. My dad didn't know about that. My dad was really strong into his culture and I just knew that I had to be a part of that in some way. I had never I had one tattoo. I had never thought I want to be a tattooist or anything, but I knew I wanted to be a part of bringing it back.
Speaker 1:For some reason. I knew that that could help people, so I started researching online and I found Earthline Tattoo Collective. I applied there and I didn't get in the first time and I was like that's okay, it wasn't meant to be, and just kept on going. And then you guys were running the school again and I applied and got in and it was really. It was terrifying for me. I said to I remember before I like actually applied, I was sitting on the couch with my partner, jason, and my daughter Lila, and I said can we do this? Can I go? Because we only work part time, we're artists and stuff. And my daughter said you have to do this. You have to do this for me.
Speaker 1:And I was like you're right. So, yeah, we did it. And you know it's just. I remember at the school, I remember you asking us what our big dream would be with our tattooing, and I think mine was very. It was just bring it home for me and my cousins. It was really small and it didn't turn out that way. It got big as soon as I got home.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it did, didn't it?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it was pretty cool to see you know as soon as you touched down. It was like you started running right away, probably just because people want it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah I don't know how words spread so quickly Like I assume someone on my Facebook or something, but it wasn't. It was like like weeks, a couple of weeks maybe or something, and the news was calling me and stuff, so yeah.
Speaker 3:Crazy. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it was. For those of you who don't know the Earthline tattoo collective, it's probably been talked about a couple of times on the podcast already and Earthline tattoo collective was a collective. I started with my friends Amy Mulbuff and Jordan Bennett and we did four indigenous tattoo schools. The first two were in Kelowna, which Jordan and Amy were taught as practitioners, and then successive years were taught in Kelowna, where Jordan and Amy then started to be instructors throughout the successive schools, and then we went to Halifax and then Regina. Here was the last tattoo school that we did. So just a big shout out to Amy and Jordan for coming along on that journey with me of starting a tattoo collective and then doing tattoo schools.
Speaker 3:So just wanted to give that shout out and give more context maybe for folks who don't know, because I know I've talked about it or it has been talked about and maybe not expounded on what that is right, so yeah, so it's one of the things I really wanted to explore with you a little bit, which we did in an interview when I was here in Regina for the tattoo school here and we talked a little bit and it was like you know what I really I was one of the interviews that I thought was amazing, but I rushed it too much and there was like way too much sound noise into it.
Speaker 1:It was very windy.
Speaker 3:So that was just my bad. So you know the setup and the way that we do it is. You know, due to some of those journeys of like, oh that was amazing, but the sound of the wind is just too crazy. But what we explored kind of in that interview and that conversation was how you know, you started with the stretching of your ears as a form of pain regulation physical pain regulation to regulate emotional, internal pain. Would you like to talk about that a little bit?
Speaker 1:Yeah, sure, I would like I had started stretching my ears and like doing a few things as I was grieving and trying to get through my pain. I had always been a pretty physical person. My mom was an aerobics instructor. Both my parents ran marathons and lifted weights and stuff like that my whole life.
Speaker 1:So I was always involved in like exercise and dancing. I love to dance and so I started belly dancing around that time and then I started stretching my ears just as an. I always feel like I have curly hair, so I look cute and so I was like I could look tough. So I started doing that and I found that the pain brought my mind into a space Like I had done yoga my whole, like from when I was like a young teen, and they always talk about using your breath and coming into the moment and being present and stuff, and I was always like I don't know who knows what you're talking about, and I found that the pain and the stretching really actually brought me into the present.
Speaker 1:It was my first real understanding of being really in the present, and not only the pain but the visualization of what my ears were starting to become, that like connection to the body where I was in control of it. But you can only control so much, and so there were elements of like wonder and, I think, really elements of hope that were there right, because I had lost hope and being able to like have that pain and the feeling of changing my body were like tiny hopes, like a hope for like a second away, right.
Speaker 1:This is the change, as opposed to like taking a huge leap of hoping to be happy in 10 years or something like that. So, yeah, that was really one of the things that made it possible for me to start sleeping well again and actually finding happiness again, because, like, true joy and happiness is being in the moment, right, and so those things really taught me how to do that again. Wow.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, it's such a cool metaphor or lesson for life, right, that thing that you articulated, where it was like just the next little hope, right, you know, you talk about that in recovery. It's just today, you know, I'm just clean for today, I'm not drinking today, right. And then you do it day by day and, yeah, that's a powerful lesson just to think about and to ponder that we just need to be concerned with the next step, the next move, the next day, and not to be overwhelmed by that vision of the five year plan or whatever. Right, you know, I think sometimes some of that rhetoric is coming from a place of privilege where people aren't struggling just to get to the next day or even the next hour or the next minute, sometimes, right. So, yeah, thank you for sharing that. That's pretty powerful insight that you got from your stretching of your ears, that journey.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think another part of that was learning about that. Focus on the next second instead of the second before, right? So a lot of pain and anxiety is about like regretting things that have happened in the past and with stretching my ears.
Speaker 1:I remember there were times you know you have to go really slow and everything or you'll like, you'll like get a tear or whatever and there were times when I did go too fast and it like I did learn to like not regret that, like that happened. You have to, I did that, you have to be okay with that. You have to be okay with your past. Yeah. Yeah, so yeah, it was very many layered lessons.
Speaker 3:Well, yeah, it's so powerful just to even think of, like the philosophical mind, that you have to be able to bring these lessons forward from your body modification.
Speaker 3:You know it's so cool and, yeah, you think about that so much of today. You know people are looking to the past and trying to shame people and starting to, you know, bring forward stuff that you know has happened. Yes, those things happen, but we're changed, we transform, we become new people every day. You know even our skin changes what every year, or something. You know you got a whole new body right. So we have to be willing and caring and give people the space to grow and to become somebody different from who they are or who they were. And you know, if we don't do that, we don't give that grace to ourselves really. Yeah, right.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, it was a pretty cool experience. So what was it like for you going through Earthline and becoming a practitioner?
Speaker 1:It was terrifying for me. I don't like to travel because of a lot of the things that have. When I grew up, we were, we didn't have a lot of money and we lived in a rental house, and so a lot of some of my traumas center around worrying about having a home, and so when we were able to buy our home my partner and myself it was. It was just like amazing to me, but so that was a good thing. It was a space where I could set boundaries. My father was an alcoholic, and so I knew that a relationship with him was really important to me. I loved him, but I had to have a boundary of. He couldn't be in my space in that way, and so my home was really. It made me feel so safe, but on the flip side, that meant that anytime I needed to travel or anything like that, especially without my partner, jason, I felt terrified.
Speaker 1:So, going to Halifax for the school was like that was extra.
Speaker 3:That was extra, that was extra Like for five weeks and I'm like, how am I?
Speaker 1:going to be on my own and everything. But I did it and I went and there was a moment like I really knew that I needed to go to the school to learn because I like I knew a gal here in Regina who wasn't indigenous, who did hand poke, and she showed me how and stuff and everything. But I have a real fear of authority and I knew I needed like training in health and safety and I wanted that basis. I didn't want to hurt people and so I. That was a big drive for me to go to the school and I was very like, happy with the way that we went over and over and over the setup and
Speaker 1:the teardown and everything, and then the teachers that were there were so inspiring and the students that were there were so inspiring to me. I remember, almost right from the get go feeling like, wow, these people are like full of like boldness and spirit that like here in Saskatchewan it's getting I think it's getting better since since COVID, but it's a space where racism is really blatant here and constant, and so you know, a lot of us here don't have that boldness. We have that like survival, like just smile and take it kind of get through the day attitude, whereas at the school, like you guys were, like you would just say, you know, this is the boundary for like non-indigenous people, and like all of you guys were like that. It was really inspiring to me to like come back here and be able to say to people I'll do this but I won't do that.
Speaker 1:Or you're allowed to do this in my space, but not that, which was amazing. And I remember at one point talking to Nahan, we were walking back to the hotel and I had noticed how much he travels, right, and I was talking about how fearful I am of travel and how I often felt really bad about not traveling because, because you know, I don't explore the world.
Speaker 1:And he kind of talked to me a little bit about why I don't and like my relationship with my brother, having to support him when he was living here and stuff, and Nahan was so generous. He like told me you know, that's like a big thing that you're doing. And so it just kind of made me feel like okay, like I'm doing something good.
Speaker 3:Yeah, definitely, yeah, yeah, moving through those spaces is important, supporting those people that need it, that are in our lives yeah, that is definitely a big thing, right? So, and as I always say, we have to be gentle, you know, be gentle with ourselves. Yeah.
Speaker 1:That's a hard thing to learn.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it is, and I, you know, I said that the other day a few times and I think it was. Nolna was like, do you know, and he said that to me a lot today. I said yeah, because I've had to learn that lesson for myself. Right, it's something that I continually have to remind myself to be gentle with myself. You know, I'm probably more gentle with everyone else than I am myself, right, yeah, so, yeah, just remembering that lesson, you know, and knowing that when those times come, they'll come, right. Yeah.
Speaker 3:You'll be able to do those things Well. I mean what? In a couple of days you're going back over to Halifax. Yeah, terrifying to go again to Halifax, but this time my family's coming with me, so it'll be.
Speaker 1:I suppose in a lot of ways that's still pressure, because I'm always the one who's organizing things.
Speaker 3:So Well, I won't be snowing this time. Yeah, that's true, because it was hella snow last time.
Speaker 1:But I laugh because everything would shut down when it snowed yeah. Yeah, and nothing shuts down here, no same with BC.
Speaker 3:It's like on the day on with the day. Maybe you have to wait a little while until your road gets plowed, but right, you just wait and then go. Yeah, yeah, I wanted to also touch on I remember you sharing after you came back you'd set up to do some work in an art gallery or a museum or something and I just wanted to highlight because I know a lot of folks you know especially like Western kind of professional tattoo artists. Look at, you know, the tattoo school that we did for Indigenous cultural tattoo practitioners and I know even when I heard yesterday, gina said that people were writing in to the university saying why are you letting a tattoo school come in here? But I just wanted you to share the response you got as you went through the health board approval process for a temporary license.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I did that at the Dunlop art gallery and one of my teachers from university like I have my visual arts degree and so one of my teachers from university worked at the Dunlop art gallery and she was she's always been very supportive of me and so when I came back she was like we're doing this show, and I think it was. It was called a stitch and time and so all the pieces in it were needlework kind of things.
Speaker 1:And so she asked if I would be willing to tattoo in the gallery space for three afternoons and I said, sure, yeah, we'll have to do all this stuff with health and safety and everything. And so she was really excited about that and I was really nervous about it. As I said, I'm terrified of authority. But I contacted the same health person health authority person that you had used at the U of R and she was so excited about it, like she said, that since the school they had been, everybody in the office had been like looking up Indigenous tattooing and really interested in it which was surprising to me.
Speaker 1:I thought that they would be like, no, you can't. But she was, she was very helpful. We had like a meeting and she just explained what I needed to do and we did all of that stuff. And then, when it was time to set up in the gallery, like I think it was very easy because the school had, like your, the earth line had set me up for success in those situations, both in terms of like being taught proper health and safety, but also with the, as I said before, the inspiration of how bold everybody was and just like saying it out right. And so when we got into the gallery space and I had, I was all set up.
Speaker 1:She was very impressed with everything. She said, oh, most lots of tattoo shops in this in Saskatchewan are not this well set up and everything. And yeah, and then when the sink had come that we rented, it was plywood and her and I were just horrified but it didn't end up working, so it had to go back and he brought a stainless steel one. So we were really happy about that. And then, yeah, that one was really easy to do. I did another one at the Kenderdyne in Saskatoon and I was again really nervous about that because it was a different health authority person and but it was the same thing. He came in and he was really impressed with my setup and actually he touched a couple things of mine that were already set up and I was like as soon as he left.
Speaker 1:I'm like new ones out, but but yeah, it made it like so easy to do. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I just wanted to bring that forward and let you explain. You know, I think we had a conversation shortly after you doing it and I think the phrase that stuck in my mind that you said is she's like I'm glad you were so well trained, yeah, yeah she was, and because I had, I had like my bloodborne pathogens certificate there and everything, and she's like, yeah, most people don't even do that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, she was very impressed with our training.
Speaker 3:So yeah, I just wanted to highlight that, because the reality is is a lot of, you know, professional tattoo artists have a bit of a what would you say like a hate on for the tattoo schools. Well, this is something that's very different than the tattoo schools that you would find in other parts of the world doing Western tattooing. You know, for us as cultural practitioners especially the folks that I've trained or helped train alongside Jordan and Amy and Amber Lee it, you know, we have a such a strong emphasis on health and safety. So if you're bitching about the stuff that we're doing, you know we can look on your Instagram and see the shit that you're doing.
Speaker 3:So, you know, just make sure that you know when you understand what you're criticizing and what you're looking at, because the reality is is that many of our students have been through health inspections, myself included, through, you know, michigan State University. I did a state and a county health inspection right, and so I've been all across the world, you know, all across Turtle Island doing health inspections and they're always impressed with the work that we do. Now, that isn't always necessarily the case with all practitioners, just the same as with all Western tattoo professional tattoo artists, but you know, the people that we work with and the people that we train have that at the foremost forefront of what we're doing, and doing it in a variety of contexts as well. So I just wanted to put that out there, that you know the health inspectors see your shops too.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, and I think the intent, like the intent is for because it's it's healing Medicine, that we're providing. I think a lot of us come at it from that point of view that, like we're caring for somebody when we're tattooing, so we it's so important to not harm them in any way. Yeah either physically, mentally, emotionally, whatever, yeah, so yeah, of course that that part's a huge part about it. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I take care with everybody I tattoo to explain what I'm doing and what I'm using on them. Yeah to make them feel. A lot of them have had tattoos at shops and they're like. Why are you like? You don't have to explain this to me, and I'm like, I just want you to feel safe, I just want you to know that I'm doing things, yeah, correctly.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I got. I kind of got the language. I touched on some of this yesterday, not this specifically, but with Gina and, and we were talking about, you know, having care for people, and I just thought last night, as I was, you know, dozing off to sleep, that I got the language around. What that is from a research Intensive that I did with the Iota Institute, who does a lot of work with bio art, and the language that they use in bio art, probably in other places, is ethics of care. Oh, yeah, right. And so I was like, oh, that's totally what it is.
Speaker 3:And so, you know, our ethics of care is not only around Bloodborne pathogens, cross-contamination, all of those things, but also, you know, the way that we care for people, the way that we make sure that they have continued Opportunities to consent and descent. You know all of those things. So, yeah, just I Wanted to give a shout out to that. You know, that Research intensive I did with Iota because it helped me to Focus in and solidify what is my ethics of care and be able to outline it in a way that is, you know, fully out there, I suppose. Yeah, so I just wanted to give that shout out again because you know You're always building relationships.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah and to acknowledge them when I want to circle back and Talk to you a little bit or get you to share about the process that you took to do your Dropes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, when I was in Halifax at school I was, so it was so beautiful to see so many of you all with Just really like vis-visible tattoos. I remember we were in a restaurant once and there were all these like like military guys coming in. I don't know if they were the Navy or what, but they were eating in there and they were kind of like trying to not stare openly but they were staring Because there's, there were neck tattoos or face tattoos or hand tattoos and everything. And, as a I'm rather fair skinned, people generally know that I'm not white and and things, but but they don't know precisely what I am and I have a stable part-time job at the library, so I feel very stable in my life and when I came back I felt like I really wanted to represent the way you guys represented. I really wanted to, with my privilege of having a union job where I can't get fired and that stability because I work downtown as well. I wanted to be like openly representing both indigenous people in the area but our practices to and tattoo whether it was like traditional tattoos from books or whatever, or tattoos for any other reason right to represent that. And so when I came back I knew I really wanted a neck tattoo and so I designed this.
Speaker 1:It's a wild rose, and wild roses are important. My parents grew them in our garden and they remind me of my dad, yeah. And so I started, I, I did the inner circle first and like in the mirror in my bathroom, and when Jason came home from work he was like what's that? So I told him what I was doing and then I was like I think it's a little off-center though, is it? And he's like yeah, it is. I was like that's okay. So I just like shaded it a bit, so it went more centered and everything, and then I just worked on it like a pedal at a time, for a few weeks and and yeah, it was.
Speaker 1:People always ask because people comment on it a lot. Yeah and when I say, oh, thank you, I did it myself, they're just like what? And they're like, didn't it hurt? And and I'm I think it like concentrating on, because you're doing it in a mirror, so you're doing it kind of backwards and stuff, so it takes a lot of concentration so you don't really notice the pain.
Speaker 1:Yeah as much as like other things sometimes, I guess I don't remember noticing it too much, yeah, and I don't remember it like being that difficult, even though it was in the mirror, like I cut my own hair as well. Yeah and I find that really hard. Like the scissors are often going in the wrong direction but this wasn't for some reason and it really did like no Han again, he like talks about our tattoos as our permanent regalia. Yeah and and like.
Speaker 1:This tattoo really makes me stand tall you know, often when I'm out in pub I'm quite like I'm vocal. I don't mind these sorts of things. But when I'm out in like a crowd or like when people are visiting me, I tend to start to hunch and like Crawl into myself. Yeah and I think like this tattoo and all of my tattoos really, but this one's so visible it makes me stand tall.
Speaker 1:Yeah and be really proud of myself, and I feel so. Like as soon as I did it, I felt so beautiful, which is like not a familiar feeling to me, and I think a lot of indigenous women feel that way. Yeah, so yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think it also brings from brings to mind the forefront of my mind. You know something that I always like to put out there, because a lot of times, you know, when we think about our ancestral skin marks, a lot of times people think they have to be some super Spiritual, you know about some journey or you know which. All of those things are true. You know they have to be about healing, they have to be about this, they have to be about that, but the reality is, is our ancestors Tattooed to be beautiful, to adorn themselves as well, as you know? Tattooed to mark their guardian spirit, right to Mark healing? You know all of those things, but they also mark just to be hot? Yeah, you know, to be beautiful, like.
Speaker 3:So for me, that is a part of our traditional Ancestral tattoo practices as well. Absolutely, and it's important to put out there so that people don't feel shame when they come and they go why do you want this? Or when you get into that conversation. I just think it makes me look beautiful, right, like. That is a traditional tattoo and it's traditional in the way that our ancestors did it as well. Yeah, because I think that sometimes people try to Make it More than what it has to be. Yes, it's important, yes, there's healing, yes, there's all of that stuff, but there's also this other part where we're contemporary people trying to live in this contemporary life and, you know, be attractive to whoever you know we want to attract into our lives. So, yeah, thank you for sharing that and bringing that forward.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I talk a lot about Vanity with, with the people that come to me, my other degrees and women studies and so, like a lot of people don't realize that that idea of like vanity being negative, vanity being Evil, is brought over from Western belief systems, specifically Christian ones, and is really connected to the like taboo of tattoo right. Like and I think that, yeah, a part of Decolonizing ourselves is starting to be okay with being beautiful, starting to be okay with decorating yourself to the nines and with other people doing that as well.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, it's really important like daily right, that's like your daily armor is to, and it's a celebration like our connections Between you know, like when, when we say land back and stuff like that, it is like give the land back, but it's also go back to the land, right, and like go back to that belief, which is true, that we're a part of the land, we're a part of the animals and we're a part of ourselves, our bodies that separation of our minds or spirit from our Physical bodies is not true.
Speaker 1:We are our bodies, and so celebrating them with decoration. Yeah like lifts your soul.
Speaker 3:So yeah, yeah, it's such a I think probably part of that is also like we Live in these boxes and we live in the concrete jungle, so to speak, you know. So we don't always get that chance to be out.
Speaker 3:Mm-hmm the land and be to experience it as ourselves, right, yeah, and to get into those rhythms. I think that's also another thing. Whenever I'm out on the land and Spending a significant amount of time there is you get into the rhythm of the land, yeah, which is just so beautiful and powerful, instead of staying up really late and then you know all of that stuff. But no, the Sun goes down and you only have so many batteries to in your head lamp or whatever. So you're like, okay, I should probably go to bed, right, getting into that rhythm of that is such a powerful experience. But, yeah, I guess I wanted to Give you an opportunity to also share about some of the teaching that you've done, because you've also, you know, in the past few years, you've also become a mentor to other practitioners in the area, and so I just wanted you to share about that experience and what was the Desire or what made you go, okay, it's time for me to start teaching.
Speaker 1:Well, you did I because, yeah, I never, really I never thought I would teach anybody I. But I was here and there's not very many people that Were would would have called themselves a cultural tattooist or something like that. There's indigenous people who tattoo and were trained in the in the shop way and everything.
Speaker 1:But people were coming to me and my list was so long and saying I was like people were coming from far away to see me, and so I knew that we needed more people in this area, but I didn't feel like I was ready to teach anybody anything really I never feel like. And then we were doing bone carving workshop to make bone needles online with you, and you had announced that earth line wouldn't be having any more schools and that you felt like it was time for us to start teaching. And really I Think in my, in the back of my head, I knew at some point I would have to start training people, because people had already asked. Yeah, and.
Speaker 1:But I was like, I'm not gonna do that until I, until somebody, until like Dion or Amy or Jordan Release. As to me, yeah, you should start teaching. Yeah. So when you said that, I was like, okay, I guess I should start teaching, and I had Three Women who were ready. So Jada DeLorm Was a daughter of one of the first people I tattooed.
Speaker 1:When I came back that I didn't know like I when I came back I tattooed my sister and my cousin and stuff like that and Chastity DeLorm Jada's mom had contacted me and you know, told me her story and and you know you just sometimes get a message and you're like this is a tattoo emergency right.
Speaker 1:And that's what it was so I tattooed her name on the back of her neck her indigenous name, and Then a couple a little while later, maybe a couple weeks or a month or so, I tattooed Jada's as well, and so that's where I connected with them and and as I went through my journey, I just kept connecting up with Chastity. She's a really strong, amazing woman here and and so, yeah, she had said that she would love, like Jada's, an artist, an amazing artist and so interested in tattoo and Would love to learn, and I at the time was kind of like, oh yeah, well, maybe in the future.
Speaker 1:So when you said that I was like, okay, I have to contact Jada and invite her. And Gina Dunbar I had met through her cousin who I went to school with and you know she had she, she already was a tattooist, she had her own shop and Just really knew the, the cultural side of it, the like, what makes it different from shop tattoos and the the techniques that I was teaching the stitch tattoo and hand poke.
Speaker 1:And Holly Obashan was the third woman and I met her. She was, she was going to the you of R. She was she was taking her degree at you of R and they offered Indigenous cultural tattooing class like about the history of it and stuff, and so she contacted me to ask me some questions and we just kept in touch and so what it started with like I felt really nervous because I was like I can't run a school like Earthline did.
Speaker 1:I don't have the money for that and or the time, and so we just started out. Every Wednesday night we would meet and I would like tell them things. We would talk and we would tattoo each other, I would show them what to do and they would practice on me and each other. And we did that, like we still do, and it's developed from like. We've done that for over a year now. I guess in October it'll be two years and they're just such amazing women like. We had the tattooing symposium here last summer. Yeah, which was awesome.
Speaker 3:And it was them that organized, that you know like they would.
Speaker 1:They would come on Wednesday nights and say well, this is what we want to do. This is yeah, and I was like great, yeah, like do it like. Holly had the, the connections at Sakewa to be the one presenting it and all of that. And Gina had the background of knowing how to set she does so many like fundraisers and stuff like that knowing how to set up a tattoo space in a different space and all of that and and yeah, jada brought her artwork to the table and helped with all that kind of thing, and I just kind of sat back and, like I barely had to do it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they organized the whole thing and it was. It was amazing. So it seemed like we had been meeting for years, but it was just. It was. It was just like a year when they started doing that. And so now we're developing, we're wanting to develop a website to kind of connect people with tattooists in their area and stuff like that. And and yeah, they're just always coming up with with other ways that we can build and connect and all of that sort of stuff. Yeah so yeah, awesome.
Speaker 3:Well, I guess I guess I just have to express you know how proud I am of you for the work that you've done, you know here and with the ladies that you've taught you know, and I guess I felt that I needed to express that because I can probably know how you feel about them, right? So I just wanted to express that how proud and you know how honored I am that you went through tattoo school and the way that you hold the work and the way that you move in the world, you know it's. You're a pretty powerful woman and it's awesome to be part of that journey as you've taken it.
Speaker 3:So I just had to take the time to express that.
Speaker 1:That means a lot to me. Like I often go through and like what I do and I'm like am I doing this right? Am. I doing this in a good way? Am I stepping on somebody's toes? Yeah.
Speaker 1:And I don't want to do any of that right. I want to do it in the right way and I want I want to be honest and and humble. But I often feel, like a lot of us feel, like I don't deserve what I've gotten, or like I question myself a lot and I feel like I'm an imposter in everything. And so, yeah, to hear that it like builds me up a lot and I'll forget it, yeah, like the next time, once this comes out, you'll be able to listen to it every time.
Speaker 3:Well, the thing is, I'll tell Jason and he'll remind me when I'm feeling that way he'll be like Deon is proud of you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, totally that's good, that's good.
Speaker 3:You know, I think we don't hear that enough, you know, and so I always say, you know, on my Instagram, when I'm doing posts, I always tell people, you know, reach out to those people you're thinking about, let them know that you care for them. You know, reach out and tell people that you're proud of that. You're proud of them, right? Because I think pride is something that we give, you know, not something we take. Yeah, and so I'm, you know, I just wanted to express that and share it and let you know, you know, my heart, because it's those things are important and we don't do that enough in our everyday lives.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think it's, you know, a practice that we have to really get used to doing just sharing our heart with people and letting them, lifting them up, because I think that's how we get to the next place.
Speaker 3:Yeah, is lifting each other, going forward together and helping each other, right, and so, yeah, I think that's just an important message to put out into the world and, yeah, so, if you're listening, whoever is in the sound of my voice, reach out to somebody special, you know, whoever that may be, maybe somebody you haven't talked to in a, you know, a long time. Just reach out and let them know that they came into your thoughts, right. It's just such an important thing to do as human beings in the society. You know, so many of us feel lonely, so many of us feel down. So, yeah, reach out, let someone know that you care for them. That's a super important lesson that we need to do. Yeah, I just wanted to give an opportunity to continue to discuss what maybe a reflection on what was that experience of teaching and going through the school. What were some of those differences that you found?
Speaker 1:Well, the school, like the school, was intensive, right. So it's five weeks you could focus on just that, so I think that made it really easy for me as a student to learn it and to know it, but meeting once a week you know it took a lot longer for the three of them to feel confident in what they were doing.
Speaker 1:And it's funny because, like, they're all so good, but I would like have my hand out for them to be tattooing me or something and I just, you know, like whatever, and they'd be like am I doing this right? And I'm like, of course you're doing it right, you're perfect at it. So there was that, and I think, just like the health and safety, just making sure to be correcting, it's really hard for me to correct people. I think that's one of the reasons I don't like. I don't feel like I should be a teacher or I want to do that.
Speaker 1:You know it's one of my struggles to be like you're doing that wrong. So that was a big learning thing for me to like because I knew it was important and I had to do it. I had to like, swallow my shyness and and just say you're doing that wrong. You're doing that wrong?
Speaker 1:Throw that away, throw that away. And also I'm stingy. So, like take those gloves off, throw them away Like pretty hard for me, but but I had to do it. So that was a big the time was such a big difference. I think like we developed like friendships with each other and and like a connection with each other that you know we all expect to go on into the future with right, whereas, like, the school ended right.
Speaker 3:And.
Speaker 1:I've kept in touch with with people, but of course everybody lives so far away from me and like Regina is so much further away than anywhere, because for some reason it's like the plane travel here is just horrendous Like you can't.
Speaker 3:I think it's not even it's not the time, but I think it's the. You actually have to pay more. Yeah, it costs more to go from Halifax to here than it does from Halifax to BC.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's totally weird. Like we have what we have no bus system in the province to go anywhere. We have like it's just impossible to get here or to get away from here. So staying like actually physically connected with people from the school is really difficult for me. So having those connections here is really amazing. But other than that, I don't know if there was too much difference. I took the things that I learned at school, that we did at school, and I I tried to like put them into what I was doing. Right.
Speaker 1:So our, like you, had us create a slideshow so that we would be prepared to come and talk in our community about tattooing. So I had them do that as well, and I talked about the importance of that, right. I think that it like, obviously it's not as structured as the school, it's not like nine to five or whatever. This is what we're doing today, today. Today it's a little bit more relaxed, but like, yeah, I'll wake up in the middle of the night and be like I got to teach him that thing.
Speaker 1:We got to talk about this. Hey there, listeners, it's.
Speaker 3:Dion Casas, your host from the transformative marks podcast, where we dive deep into the world of indigenous tattooing, ancestral skin marking and cultural tattooing. If you found value in our episodes, we've made you laugh or you've learned something new, consider showing your support by buying me a coffee on coficom. Cofi is this incredibly creator friendly platform where you can support me directly for just the cost of a cup of coffee. No subscriptions, no hidden fees, just a simple one time gesture that goes a long way in keeping me on the air. Plus. Cofi doesn't take a cut, so every penny goes directly into improving the podcast, from updating equipment to visiting with new guests as I go into recording season two. So if you like what you hear and you'd like to help me keep the lights on, head over to my cofi page, wwwco-ficom. Forward slash transformative marks. The link is in the show notes.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I would say that's. Another thing I think you should be proud of is the kind of cohort of practitioners that have developed here. You know it's super cool. Like I can roll up and do four or five interviews in, you know, for the podcast, just in this one city. You know I've been to Vancouver and I, you know, wasn't able to do that, you know, maybe sometimes because of scheduling, but yeah, just to come here and you know, in this city, in this province, you know it's. I would say it's a hotbed for indigenous tattooing and everybody's doing awesome, powerful, unique and different work.
Speaker 3:So, something to be proud of as well is that cohort of folks that are doing the work here.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think it's like amazing that, like like because there were people doing it like. I remember my talk, my slide show I was talking about prison tattoos and home tattoos because I feel that they're an extension of they're like like never stopped. Right. They were, they served a purpose that was that it was just as traditional as anything else, yeah, and they still do, and so I think, for, like some of the people who were tattooing here already, they just needed to be told that, like your tattoos count.
Speaker 3:Yeah, definitely yeah.
Speaker 1:You know, so like for people like Nolan, when he came to the symposium and met you guys, he was, he just he was just. It made so much for him. I think, and I think that's like so amazing, because he's such an amazing person, yeah, and he does such good work with people and everything. And I think, like here in Saskatchewan, because it is so vast and you don't have like connections, like once we started connecting, it just was like a sense of relief for all of us that like there were people that thought the same way as us and totally and weren't going to be like jealous of each other or whatever.
Speaker 1:Totally. And just. We're thankful for the support. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, everybody here is so great.
Speaker 3:Yeah, such a dope little spot. I think people should definitely make the journey to come here Visit you guys. It's awesome. I wanted to kind of switch gears and maybe give you an opportunity to talk about some of the work that you do outside of ancestral skin marking and traditional tattooing, some of the artwork that you do because, like you shared in the beginning, you've been an artist, practicing artists, for a long time in your life, so maybe just talk about some of the new things that you got coming up or some of the things that stand out for you and your artistic journey any of that type of stuff.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so yeah, I'm old. I graduated from the U of R in 2002. And was a practicing artist. I graduated with a painting and printmaking degree and then I started working part-time at the library because it was a union job and it was made possible Like I only work three days a week, so it makes it possible for me to do art or do whatever I want, as well as have a stable job. And my partner, jason, is the same way. And so I think with my art, I always felt like, like I always did art surrounding identity, surrounding trauma I would say specifically trauma and not healing prior to tattoo school, and I think that goes along with my anger, right, like I really wanted Canadians to see, like I was angry and furious and for a reason.
Speaker 1:And then, you know, I had my daughter and I was still angry then, but I started to get those inklings of I really need to learn to put that aside and so when my daughter was little and I learned how to felt because it's cleaner, and I started kind of branching out I had always sewn and beaded and stuff like that I started branching out into different ways of making art and exploring my art. But like my art was really kind of narrative prior to that.
Speaker 1:And then, with the grieving that I went through, it became a little bit more useful. Like the physicality of it became more useful for me to kind of vent or whatever, and so that's kind of how my art has grown, and then I think tattooing really made my art something worthwhile. Like you know, it was always worthwhile for me. But I think, coming to tattooing, like put everything together, for me and made me mature as an artist, because it made me go from just focusing on trauma to focusing on healing and joy, you know, and still remaining angry, but in a much more constructive way.
Speaker 1:So the projects that I'm working on now are always connected to tattoo in some way, which I think is really amazing for me.
Speaker 1:I'm working on a project with Teneal. Campbell is the lead artist and there's a few of us in the show. It's called Indigenous Joys and which is just like, so like. It makes me smile every time I think about it to be able to be in a project where we're talking about ourselves as joyful. It's like such a change from when I was like in my 20s and stuff, and we were just angry. Like it felt like as Indigenous people that would always be the definition of who we were sad or angry.
Speaker 1:So to be able to be acknowledging our joys is great, and so that project is about travel. We went up to a hide camp and we tend to hide together moose hide and we each got a piece of it to make our peace with. And while I was up there I took my tattooing kit and I tattooed my cousin Garrick, who teaches up there and he has his dogs, his sled dogs, up there, and he took us on a run and it like I didn't know what I was going to make the piece about yet, but being on that run with the dogs really reminded me of my dad and how much he loved our dogs and we would go for long walks, like even though we were stranded in the city here when I was growing up my parents didn't have a car we would go for walks outside of the city and kind of like pretend that the farmland surrounding Saskatchewan was the wilderness and so it reminded me of that and that joy, and so I knew.
Speaker 1:I wanted to do something along with the dogs or with trails or something, and then Kevin, who's another teacher up there, we were tattooing him Holly was tattooing him actually and he was talking about how important it is for us, as Indigenous people, to travel and to explore the earth, and so that kind of brought my project together To make it about traveling and my fears about traveling, but how overcoming those fears really brings me quite a huge amount of joy.
Speaker 1:You know, like traveling to tattoo school, change my life. You know, going up to the hide camp with such a beautiful experience and so I'm connecting all of that in my piece. My piece is called Tickle my Back Traversing Home and so it's referencing, exploring our bodies, exploring the land, exploring our relationship with animals and just being joyful about all of those sorts of things and openly joyful, like.
Speaker 1:I think a huge part of my art practice now is about caring and about, like passing on knowledge to my daughter. All those things are caring. Being allowed to do that now as Indigenous people we're allowed to love each other again, which at one point we weren't allowed to, and so laying hands on people as I tattoo them, tickling my daughter's back or tattooing her, those are like such huge gifts. So that's what that project is about. And then I'm doing another project, a group show at the Art Gallery of.
Speaker 1:Regina called. The show is called If you Prick Me, Do I Not Bleed, I think? And my piece is called People With Faced Tattoos Make Me Heal, so I was asked to be a part of the show.
Speaker 1:I knew I was going to do stuff about face tattoos. But while I was thinking about it, someone at work a co-worker I overheard her phone conversation and she said, yeah, people with face tattoos make me sick and I know, when I was in my 20s it would make me so angry and I was like I'm not going to do that. I'm going to do that and I know, when I was in my 20s it would make me so angry, but I just I laughed Do they make you sick? Is that was making you sick right now? And really no, it's the racism that's making you sick.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, that's why I called it. People With Faced Tattoos Make Me Heal, because they do make me heal. They make me so joyful as I walk through the world and you can see I don't know just the past few years they're everywhere, right? People are getting their face tattoos, people are getting, so they are walking through the world and making people heal.
Speaker 1:They're making indigenous people heal but, they're calling people who are racist to account, people who are against us to account, and saying we're here now and you're going to have to put up with it and hopefully that changes your heart and heals you and I hope that it does Like that project. I've been photographing people I've tattooed or people who have face tattoos, and I'm putting together a book. My elder, brenda Dubois, told me when I came back from tattoo school that we had to write our own books.
Speaker 1:And I was like I'm not going to be good at that, and so with this project, I got an award that's funding part of it, and so I'll be using that to create a book of these women's tattoos people's tattoos really. I always think women, because there's so many women that come to me, but there's people, all sorts of people that'll be in the book and telling their story, showing their tattoo, and then it'll also document my trip to Halifax to see Amy Malboff to get my chin tattoo, which I'm terrified about, and then the last part will be tattooing my daughter in the gallery with her temple tattoos.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and in inviting the community, I was just talking to the curator of the show about how that invitation will look, and what it'll say, because I want it to be apparent that the first and foremost people surrounding my daughter as I tattoo her will be people close to her who are supporting her, and then community people who are interested supporting her, and then, outside of that, just the general public who are willing to come in an open, hard way and be supportive, because that's really all we ask of people right Is to not come with your negativity.
Speaker 1:Why you got to come and be a jerk about stuff, right? Because it is that feeling like why would somebody with a face tattoo make you sick? You're choosing to be dramatic.
Speaker 3:Totally Like it has really nothing to fucking do with you. Yeah.
Speaker 1:And all of those attitudes, whether it be like homophobia or like any of those things. That's just people being nosy and jerks. So, yeah, we really want our invitation to really kind of get that across yeah that's awesome.
Speaker 3:Those are both super powerful projects. When I think about the project the joy, it's just such a powerful testament to the work that's been happening, and I would say, not only the work that we're doing or that we have been a part of, but the work that was done before to set the groundwork for us to be in a place where we can now focus on this Right, because so much work has been done before we even got here to even ensure that we survived to the point that also, we don't have to always be concerned with those survival experiences, that we can now celebrate that joy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I often talk about because I do a lot of tattoo presentations when I talk about my dad and that there were multiple sides to him, that he was an alcoholic and there were monstrous things, right, but he was also and all of his friends as well when I was a kid he was a hero. He was doing, he protested, he camped out on the legislative grounds back in the 80s.
Speaker 1:We have there's a lot of them doing that and fighting for native housing, for native rights and all of this stuff and, yeah, they really laid the groundwork for us to be able to like. While I grew up in poverty and witnessing his alcoholism, he still made it a point that all of his kids were going to university, that he struggled to make us successful where he felt that he hadn't been. Yeah, that's amazing yeah. That's really amazing yeah.
Speaker 1:He did amazing things with what he had, and my mom too, setting us up to be where we are and to be joyful I talked about because we were talking about generational trauma, and then we were like well, if there's generational trauma, there must be intergenerational joy. Yeah, totally. And a gal I know who does a lot of work with Buffalo and with Hyde said that she gets, she salivates when she works on the Hyde and when I tattoo my stomach, growls. Doesn't matter if it's full or not, it's like a joyful growl.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we're just hungry for it. Yeah, that's cool. Yeah, one thing I wanted to again circle back on to a previous comment, and it was in connection to that first exhibition was being joyful about our bodies as well, and I think there's a lot of shame associated with bodies. A lot of that comes from Christianity and that Puritan kind of ethic. And, yeah, just being joyful in our body and how, in fact, tattooing and ancestral skin marking helps you to reconnect with your body, because so often, just as your own experience of beginning to stretch your ears helped you to be conscious and present in your body, this work really provides an opportunity for people to be in their bodies, to experience themselves and experience the joy of having a body right. So, yeah, just wanted to open that up.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I like my thought processes of our bodies and our relationship with them has changed so much since I went to tattoo school.
Speaker 1:You just start thinking about all of those things that you learned growing up in society or whatever that your belief systems about your body and, like recently I've been, because my daughter's a teenager and here in Saskatchewan, you always have a feeling that they could take your child at any moment. Oh wow, and so I gave her her coming of age tattoo on her ankle when she was 14. And we chose her ankle so she could hide it right, and so I feel like we're always, we've always been taught to like people in general, have always been taught to hide their bodies in this society, but especially indigenous people hide your body hide your markings hide what you're doing, and I was thinking about where that was coming from, like where that idea that, like you, can pierce a baby's ears?
Speaker 1:but, you can't give an underage person a tattoo that is, like, really important to them. Or maybe even not really important.
Speaker 3:Yeah, totally.
Speaker 1:Where is that coming from? And it's this belief that our bodies are pristine and whatever we do to them is ruining them, and I think we really need to get away from that. We really need to start appreciating our scars and our brokenness and, like as a dancer, I'm a big fan of Bob Fosse and he was kind of a weird dancer and choreographer. He had a lot of pain and a lot of issues. He couldn't do classical dance in the way that it was expected and that's really where the beauty of his choreography developed from was from his issues and his appreciation of the quirks and weirdness, and I think that that's where we need to move to in terms of our own skin and our own bodies and our own beliefs about what's okay.
Speaker 1:I had a lot of people who talked to me about like, oh, there's this one tattoo I got and I really need to get it covered up because I regret it and I think that's great, like, if you can get it covered up, do it whatever right. But also, like, reflect on that. Like what, how was that tattoo on your path, right? What has it?
Speaker 1:given you or what does? It has it. Have you learned from it? What does it make you feel every day? You? Know and how can you change that right? Like we all have scars, it's a fallacy to think, just because you haven't been tattooed, that your body's pristine. It changes constantly, and that belief is what makes us cling to youth and to all these falsehoods that don't really exist, you know. Yeah, big time.
Speaker 1:So like talking, and I think that like cause, I talked to a lot of teens. Now my daughter's 15 and her friends are 15.
Speaker 1:And they're these kids that became teenagers during COVID, so they have so much social issues with them, right yeah, and so I talked to them, if moms ask me to about tattooing and about cutting and about all those sorts of things just to give them a basis on, like health and safety yeah, definitely, you know and to let them know that I'm okay if they have scars, I'm okay if they have a crazy tattoo, I'm okay if they like tattooed themselves and it like blew out and it looks horrible, that's cool, you can embrace that, but it shouldn't be okay to like hurt yourself while you're doing that, like permanently In some way.
Speaker 1:So I give them the health and safety and talk to them about that. But I think that talking about them with, about their bodies, I hope that that gives them like a better platform in life of like appreciating their bodies and appreciating the change, whether it was like a good change or a bad change, you know, just being neutral, like that was a change Totally.
Speaker 3:Yeah, big time, yeah, yeah no, I think it was important just to kind of pick up and just discuss a little bit, explore a little bit, just because, yeah, I don't think we talk enough about it. Yeah. You know, definitely, cause, of course, you can't get tattooed without dealing with bodies. Yeah, so this is one of those things and Gina and I talked quite extensively about, you know, creating safety in those spaces of dealing with other people's bodies in your tattooing practice. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:I remember when I was going through that grieving process, I would be downtown and seeing people's bodies, like all the different bodies, and for some reason I just like really appreciated the beauty of everybody's like different body. Yes. And I don't know if that was connected to like where my head space was in terms of like feeling lost or what, but I really appreciated that that happened in my mind. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I think that if we can all come to a space like that, we won't like the so much. Judgment becomes lost for other people and then for ourselves.
Speaker 3:Yeah, definitely for ourselves. Yeah, yeah, yeah, big time. As we're kind of starting to wind down to the end of this conversation, are there any questions that come up or anything that you wanted to explore with me or things that you've been thinking about?
Speaker 1:I don't know, I don't think so Okay. Yeah, I don't know if you've noticed this about me, but I never have questions, like they don't pop into my head. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I don't know if it's a weird thing with me. I so much appreciate other people's questions, Even if it's mundane questions of like what have you been doing? What's your daughter up to? Just like life, my brain never thinks to question things. I just am purely content to like sit and absorb things, and I think that sometimes that's connected to my shyness, because I don't feel I don't have confidence to like ask people things like even simple things. I feel shy about yeah, and so they just don't. Yeah, they don't present themselves in my brain.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's okay, but I think it's also another lesson to sometimes you know, I was taught you know sometimes just shut your mouth if you don't know what you're talking about. You know Like, and part of that you know. Sometimes your ignorance will leak out if you talk about something you don't really know much about. But yeah, no. I think it's an important lesson to be able to just sit and absorb and bring those things in yeah, so that's cool, not a yeah, no, nothing to feel ashamed about or anything you know. I think it's powerful to be able to do that, cause I think some of us don't do that.
Speaker 3:We always, you know, have to be out there, you know, questioning everything.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's a powerful experience and way of being as well. So, yeah and I know you giggle a little nervously when I asked you but yeah, no, it's cool, totally cool, all good, yeah, I'm just super stoked that we were able to come and have this conversation and explore your experience as an artist and as a cultural practitioner ancestral skin marker and also lift you up in the work that you've been doing with your students and the people that you've been mentoring and the way that you hold the work. You know the way that you know, cause I'll always people will always forward me the. You know the things that you've been in in terms of news articles or whatever it may be. So, yeah, just super proud to have you holding that work in the way that you do.
Speaker 1:Thank you.
Speaker 3:Yeah, awesome.
Speaker 1:I never feel like I say it enough that I so much appreciate the gift that you gave me and that you gave it to me and therefore to my daughter and to like all my cousins and all of the people here in Regina really, who you know would have missed out. I think like it's so life changing, not just for me but for, like, everyone here Wow.
Speaker 3:Thank you for saying that and I, you know, I take that, take that into my heart and accept it, and I'm thankful for it and I'll let you know that I hear it. Yeah, it'll help me, cause I think I have just the same as you. You know, sometimes I have my own sense of imposter syndrome, my own sense of, like you know, not feeling accomplished. So sometimes I'll have to rewatch this episode to understand you know, those feelings that others have for me.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah.
Speaker 3:So I take that to heart and I thank you for sharing it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's big. What you did is big, thank you very much.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's nice to hear those things and to cause. We're always so busy, right? Sometimes I don't get an opportunity to reflect on those things, so I get to reflect on them when others share them. So I appreciate that. And yeah, thanks for coming out and hopefully next time I'm around we can maybe do a follow up and see where you're at, and the next time that I'm through or the next time we get a chance to connect. Yeah, I'm stoked to have you hang out with me on the transformative marks podcast.
Speaker 1:Thanks for having me Awesome.
Speaker 3:Hey everyone, thanks for stopping by and taking this journey with me through this episode. I hope you enjoyed it. I'll just ask that you would go and subscribe, if you haven't already done so and if you have subscribed, thank you very much. I appreciate you following this journey. I just want you to remember that, no matter who you are, where you're from, what you've done or what you've been through, that you were amazing, that you were loved, and that we need you here today and going into the future, so that we can transform this world for the better through our collective thoughts, actions, feelings and our compassion for each other as human beings.
Speaker 3:Head on over to next week's episode, where I'll be talking to Gina Dunbar, a Plains Cree and Metis, professional tattoo artist and ancestral skin marker based at a Regina, saskatchewan. In this episode, we talk about the importance of creating safe spaces and tattooing. Remember, every coffee helps me to bring you the content that you love. So head over to my Ko-Fi page and let's make something great together. And the last thing that I will ask you is to do me a solid and share this episode with somebody that you think will enjoy it. Thanks a lot and see you next week.