#021 As the buzz of the tattoo machine hums in the background, our studio comes alive with the incredible story of Paul McKenzie, a Wet'suwet'en tattoo artist whose skills tell a tale as rich as his heritage. The artistry of ink and skin runs deep for Paul, from the influence of his father's passion for tattoos to his own self-taught mastery of the craft. We journey through his transformative experiences, from sketching designs inspired by old flash catalogs to buying his first tattoo kit and beyond, highlighting the cultural threads that weave through his work. The conversation brings to light the unique styles that fuse traditional Indigenous designs with modern expressions, a testament to the evolving narrative of Indigenous art.
Unlocking the world of arts funding can be as intricate as the designs etched onto skin, and in this episode, I open up about my own experiences with the Canada Council for the Arts and the pursuit of grants. The insights I share are not just about funding – they're about the powerful role of tattooing in cultural revival and identity reinforcement. I lay bare the impact of this ancestral art on individuals and communities, and how it can empower youth, prevent suicide, and connect us to our ancestors. As you listen, you too may find yourself inspired to leave a mark, in ink or through your own cultural expression.
Finally, we dream big with visions of an Indigenous-focused tattoo studio that doubles as a cultural hub, where history and innovation come together. This dream is about more than just a place; it's about creating a community that celebrates both historical and evolving facets of Indigenous art. The transformational stories shared in this episode underscore the profound impact tattoos have on self-identity and the importance of cultural sharing. Join us as we celebrate the rich tapestry of Indigenous tattooing and its potential to knit together a tapestry of community and belonging.
I hope you have enjoyed this episode, and I am excited to travel the world of Indigenous tattooing with you as we visit with friends and colleagues from across the globe doing the work.
You can find Paul at:
Instagram @ceremonial.tattoo
Check out my tattoo work at:
https://www.consumedbyink.com
Instagram @dionkaszas
Buy me a Coffee at:
https://ko-fi.com/transformativemarks
I acknowledge the support of the Canada Council for the Arts
#021 As the buzz of the tattoo machine hums in the background, our studio comes alive with the incredible story of Paul McKenzie, a Wet'suwet'en tattoo artist whose skills tell a tale as rich as his heritage. The artistry of ink and skin runs deep for Paul, from the influence of his father's passion for tattoos to his own self-taught mastery of the craft. We journey through his transformative experiences, from sketching designs inspired by old flash catalogs to buying his first tattoo kit and beyond, highlighting the cultural threads that weave through his work. The conversation brings to light the unique styles that fuse traditional Indigenous designs with modern expressions, a testament to the evolving narrative of Indigenous art.
Unlocking the world of arts funding can be as intricate as the designs etched onto skin, and in this episode, I open up about my own experiences with the Canada Council for the Arts and the pursuit of grants. The insights I share are not just about funding – they're about the powerful role of tattooing in cultural revival and identity reinforcement. I lay bare the impact of this ancestral art on individuals and communities, and how it can empower youth, prevent suicide, and connect us to our ancestors. As you listen, you too may find yourself inspired to leave a mark, in ink or through your own cultural expression.
Finally, we dream big with visions of an Indigenous-focused tattoo studio that doubles as a cultural hub, where history and innovation come together. This dream is about more than just a place; it's about creating a community that celebrates both historical and evolving facets of Indigenous art. The transformational stories shared in this episode underscore the profound impact tattoos have on self-identity and the importance of cultural sharing. Join us as we celebrate the rich tapestry of Indigenous tattooing and its potential to knit together a tapestry of community and belonging.
I hope you have enjoyed this episode, and I am excited to travel the world of Indigenous tattooing with you as we visit with friends and colleagues from across the globe doing the work.
You can find Paul at:
Instagram @ceremonial.tattoo
Check out my tattoo work at:
https://www.consumedbyink.com
Instagram @dionkaszas
Buy me a Coffee at:
https://ko-fi.com/transformativemarks
I acknowledge the support of the Canada Council for the Arts
Growing up down here not in touch with my nation too much. I recently went to a Wet'suwet'en feast, an urban feast that the nation came down and put on for us. Living off reserve and just being in the room with that many people of my nation after, like most of my life, not feeling like I fit in, I got chills. Just walking in there and then hearing every speaker come up and speak our language blew my mind.
Speaker 2:It made me feel the sense of belonging and the transformative marks podcast explores how indigenous tattoo artists, cultural tattoo practitioners and ancestral skin markers transform this world for the better, dot by dot, line by line and stitch by stitch. My name is Dion Kazas. I'm a Hungarian, métis and Intukmok professional tattoo artist and ancestral skin marker. I started the work of reviving my ancestral Intelkatmok skin marking practice over a decade ago. I've helped, supported and trained practitioners and tattoo artists here on Turtle Island. In this podcast, I sit down with Indigenous tattoo artists, cultural tattoo practitioners and ancestral skin markers from across the globe, bringing you behind the scenes of this powerful, transformative and spiritual work.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's an honor to be here, man. Yeah, it's an honor to be asked. My name's Paul McKenzie. I am a member of the Wet'suwet'en Nation from outside of Smithers, BC. I grew up in Vancouver, around New West and East Van, between my mother and my dad.
Speaker 2:I guess the first thing is what was that journey for you to get into tattooing? When did you start all of that type stuff?
Speaker 1:I've been tattooing for about five years now and it's been a wicked journey, man. I've wanted to do it ever since I was a little kid yeah you know, like I can say, like grade one or two I've been wanting to be a tattoo artist, like my dad was into tattooing yeah when he was my age.
Speaker 1:He tried to do it and he didn't find a apprenticeship okay so he had tattooed my uncles and some friends and I grew up around the shit and seeing him like he has like eight tattoos on either side, you know, like half old school traditional sleeves, yeah and uh. It didn't work for him but he kept all his flash catalogs and his tattoo magazines that's cool and all this shit and he's like here you go, like here's your art supplies. Yeah, and I use that as reference, right, yeah, and it was really great for me and like in learning to do art, because these flash catalogs would be a little skull and dagger and rose like that big right, all the old spalding and rogers spalding and rogers, yeah, they were like.
Speaker 1:They were like the paper was yellowing. They're so old, right, but, um, I would take that little picture and I would make that shit like this big, yeah, and then I color it, yeah, so, um, it's good for my perspective and like like changing, like being able to replicate different sizes and stuff. So that was it. Man, like I draw pictures and, um, you know, grew up like pretty, pretty poor, but my dad was always making sure to have a big stack of paper there, always a fresh set of pencils, and like encouraging for art. You know, like if we weren't outside and we're bored yeah he's like draw me a picture yeah
Speaker 1:and like that was it man. So so I've always wanted to do it and, uh, you know, thought about it always seems so intimidating, like it was hard to get the machines back in the day. Yeah, getting my hands on that shit just seemed kind of out of reach and and then all of a sudden you could get it everywhere, yeah, like so I was like I was out working on a tugboat and I was thinking about this and mentioning it to people around me and kind of people are kind of like shaking their head, like I haven't seen you draw for a long time.
Speaker 1:You know yeah so I, uh, I remember I was reading a book a nelson mandela autobiography and, uh, it had a picture of his face on the front. Yeah, and I used to draw faces all the time. Like I loved drawing faces when I was a kid. So I figured I'm going to sketch this shit right now and if I can draw this, I'm going to buy myself a tattoo kit.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So I drew it in a couple minutes and I sent it to somebody like who's this?
Speaker 1:And they're picture of Nelson Mandela, like, yeah, wow, that's it. I still got the picture. I want to frame it because it was like a pivotal moment for me, right, a pivotal moment, or a pivotal moment, um, so that's it. I bought it online that day and I picked it up on my way home from that trip. Sweet. So I was like trying to get myself into shops and one of my best friends uh, jody Blakeway or Kings of Cultist tattoo okay, I was trying to get an apprenticeship with him yeah and he's like yeah, dude, it's not a good time for me right now, so, uh, maybe try back yeah
Speaker 1:so I was kind of like, kind of bummed out. I had my whole plan in my head to like be there, right. So I'm like fuck it, okay. So then quarantine came. So I had this kit and I started to do latex. And I can, I literally did latex twice for maybe 10 minutes each, and I realized that it was bullshit. Whatever the latex I had was was straight garbage, because no matter how deep I went, how slow I went or fast I went, it was the same shit, right. So I was like, hey, this is weak. So I uh stenciled up some leaves and I blasted on over my knee, okay, and uh, they're pretty decent, like I'm pretty proud of them still. And uh, then I did more leaves under and some script. Um, I put true love on my knee because I knew once I put that needle in my skin I was like I was in love with that shit.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean. I was like people get addicted to tattooing like I.
Speaker 1:I really love the shit, man. Like I knew right then that it was a true love. And uh, yeah. Then I started posting my buddy pictures like, hey bro, check this shit out. Yeah. And after like three or four he's like wow bro, he's like you should blast something on me one day yeah.
Speaker 1:So I'm like fuck, I'd be honored. So it was funny. I was camping like just down the street from this guy's shop. Yeah. So I'm like, hey, I'm gonna see jody tomorrow. I need to get something dope to show this guy. So I blasted this frog on my foot yeah oops um, my first three-liner tattoo. You know I was scared of the three three line needles at first but I figured like if I want to do it I might as well start there yeah so I did this frog.
Speaker 1:He's sitting back on a leaf smoking a pipe still one of my favorites. So here I am. I get to the campsite. We're chopping wood, so I chopped wood and this piece of fucking wood flings off and splits the tattoo open like right in the middle of the belly.
Speaker 2:It's like but the tattoo still looked good.
Speaker 1:Right, it didn't happen on a line or anything. So I'm like fuck, fuck, fuck, come on. I'm like whatever. I'm like hey, kids, let's go for a bike ride, let's go see jody, so we go down there. And I'm like hey, check this shit out, bro. And he's like oh, fuck, that looks awesome, besides what you just did. He's like fuck, come on in on monday he's like let's do this shit.
Speaker 1:That's awesome. And I started my apprenticeship there out in chilliwack cool and uh, it was great man, it was a great experience. I was only there for like a few weeks before I was tattooing clients.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And like it was like giving away freebies and stuff, you know, like he had to have someone in the chair and their friend or brother or sister would be in and they in the chair would be like, hey, there's a new guy, roll up your sleeve, I'll buy, you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so that's how it started, man, it's been a fucking great journey, yeah, cool. Yeah, that's nice to hear that you know he finally picked it up. Are you still in that shop, or have you moved or what's?
Speaker 1:the no, I've been bouncing around a bit. So I'm still living in South Story White Rock area and I was commuting out to Chilliwack every day to make that happen and it was like about three hours in my car every day, so every day to make that happen and it was like about three hours in my car every day, yeah. So I was kind of a struggle with my family and stuff so I moved to start looking for a shop in the city.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I found a guest spot which turned into a residency. Yeah, and um, it was under a really amazing tattoo tattooer and um, it went really well. But she ended up closing the shop, so she got me into another shop with her friend. Yeah, and I've been just bouncing around doing guest spots around the city trying to get my name out there and all.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Uh, since moving my business from Chilliwack uh, it was no one knew me, yeah, so, uh, so, bouncing around, I did a few guest spots and still got a couple scheduled, continue those and um, yeah, it's been great man bouncing around meeting everyone in the industry, like everyone I've met so far is fucking amazing. Like they're so helpful and like welcoming on, welcome you into the shop, like yeah, like you, like you've been there all along you know yeah it's.
Speaker 2:It's been a really great man, like yeah, I really appreciate everyone I've met yeah, what, uh, what is the, what are the styles that you like to do. You know what is the, what is the styles that you like to do. You know what is the stuff that you do.
Speaker 1:I love black and gray realism.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And my original like West Coast indigenous designs. I really love tattooing those. I've always wanted to tattoo and draw like indigenous art. Yeah, but ever since I was a kid I wanted to create this stuff. But it was very intimidating for me.
Speaker 1:You know, like I grew up like huge fans of Bill Reed, of course, and Richard Shorty, yeah, and got their shit all over my walls right, and I'm looking at this stuff all the time like how the fuck do they do this? You know, and I know there was rules and stuff which I learned were more like guidelines and uh, I just started diving into books. Yeah, um, I started like I I ordered like half a dozen books, yeah, on indigenous art and just even on the indigenous people. Yeah, um, of like where I'm from, like, uh, the deneris this book I read and like just started to like dive into that and my mom's been sending me stuff down from our nation like textbooks that they teach the school, like called the ways of our ancestors, and I got to this part in that book where they said that tattooing is a part of our culture and they actually like the men would get their clans tattooed on the chest and the women's would usually get on their hands and wrist yeah and like that moment too.
Speaker 1:I was like holy fuck, like this shit is in my blood yeah, like it's time to do this right, you know like it just felt right at that time. So I continued to do research and I basically taught myself to do that. Um, indigenous designing. You know, it's very contemporary, it's far from traditional, yeah, but um, it just flows out of me like I very I love drawing that stuff because it's it's the most natural thing I've ever drawn, where it just, it just just comes yeah and black and gray.
Speaker 1:Um, I've learned under two black and gray realism artists who are like fucking amazing and they've really helped me a lot in that industry and in that part of the industry. And, uh, like I did a couple days ago I think the one of the best tattoos I ever did and it was black and gray, yeah, and I just I love it. Like I find it's like a puzzle. I look at it and I'm like, hey, what movement, what depth, what I got to do to make that shit look like that. Yeah and um, I get lost in it like I'll lose'll lose hours and it's like I think of it like meditation. Oh, it big time is I can just escape the fucking world for those hours, right, and it's really great, man. So those two styles black and gray and the indigenous are definitely my favorite.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you kind of. The last one I seen you posted is like a bit of a hybrid.
Speaker 1:It has some black and gray, but then you have some other forms in there. You know, I love that. Actually that was a client that started me on that, that road and with her idea and I find, like the hard line, crispy form line, with a soft black and gray, like they contrast each other so well and, yeah, I'd love to do more of those projects yeah, it's kind of cool piece.
Speaker 2:I really enjoyed looking at it.
Speaker 2:I was like, yep, that's dope you know, it's like a unique style too right, because it truly is a contemporary imagination or a manifestation of your culture, right handshake to your ancestors in terms of, you know, adding that form line in there. But then it's also that real contemporary black and gray uh you know fine line stuff which is really, uh, it's kind of cool and uh nice to see you know that evolution of the practice of you know really indigenizing that black and gray work for us here on turtle island. So it's pretty cool all right, thanks man.
Speaker 1:Yeah, man appreciate that.
Speaker 2:Um, yeah, it was interesting to uh hear uh the. I just was talking about it yesterday in the podcast the, uh the tattoo magazines. Right, I? I said, you know, I had like stacks and stacks and stacks of tattoo magazines and uh, when we moved, I had to like, I was like oh shit, what am? What am I going to do? Because, of course, when you move it's by weight, you know, if you get somebody to move, your shit for you.
Speaker 1:The boxes are fucking heavy. I was like what am I going to do here?
Speaker 2:So I ripped them out all the pages you know, like the articles of the artists. I like I ripped those out, stapled them Then any those out, stapled them then any like reference photos.
Speaker 1:I really enjoyed so I have like folders instead of like full magazines.
Speaker 2:I am a bit sad that I let those all go but yeah, yeah, it's always money to travel, so it's cool to hear, uh, you know that was like part of your inheritance was those magazines which you know put you off on the right foot, you know yeah, totally yeah.
Speaker 2:I loved it like um as well as like easy rider magazines, you know that's like some of the first tattoos, I think, uh, when I think about the history of tattoos, yeah, easy rider was one of those ones that, like, then morphed into tattoo yeah, yeah, yeah, it's given all sorts of different like uh, stacks of magazines.
Speaker 1:You know some of them were like age appropriate, but my dad was cool, like that. He was like I understand that you shouldn't look at this, but just flip past it and get to the art. Yeah, he's like, he was very much like um uh, you know, didn't baby me.
Speaker 2:Yeah yeah cool, yeah. So, uh, when you think about, uh, your vision for the future of your work, what do you see?
Speaker 1:My vision for the future, just like what I've been doing, I think.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I would love to do more of those black and gray projects mixed with the indigenous style, yeah. But yeah, I've been just going with the flow. Yeah, I've actually just been tattooing full-time for just this month because I was doing another job on the side, I was juggling both things and it was getting in the way of my family, yeah, so I quit that job and just focus on this.
Speaker 2:Yeah and um how does it feel?
Speaker 1:fucking amazing yeah, yeah, like you know, like I've I haven't been happier and like I've I haven't been happier in I can't remember how long, and uh, it's just like I'm I'm exhausted, you know, after staying up to two sometimes drawing, yeah, but then the next day I feel fucking amazing because I'm doing what I love all day yeah you know.
Speaker 1:So it's been great. My future, my vision for the future, is I would like to eventually get like a front street studio, like a walk-in studio somewhere. Yeah, because right now I'm in a private space, yeah, and when I'm not in private space, I'm doing guest spots and a lot of times in other private studios. So I would love to have a shop one day. You know, it'd be dope to have one on white rock beach for my kids to come in after school. You know, yeah, some place for them to come and draw. Yeah, um, yeah, I just I would like to just get out there one day.
Speaker 2:But it's just, you know, slowly make my way down that road, yeah yeah, well, congratulations on you know taking that step to go full time and you know, really buy into yourself and buy into your passion. So you know. Congratulations on that. That's pretty cool. Appreciate that? Yeah, so I'm here in uh for the True Tribal exhibition opening up. I look forward to seeing you over there and checking it out. You know, we were just before we started. You started to ask a few questions about grants and stuff.
Speaker 2:Yeah yeah, yeah. So, uh, you know why don't you give a bit of context to that conversation before we get into, yeah, sharing a little bit about that?
Speaker 1:yeah, I was told about these grants through another interview with teddy carter and yeah, she was very informative and like just kind of planted the seed of thinking like maybe I can have my own shop one day, yeah. But I figure like, um, my nation helped me a lot to go to school, to get on the boats when I was working that job, so and they were amazing, yeah, like they were really helpful yeah so once I heard about these grants, I figured why not, man like, why not try and get all this help that's to me?
Speaker 1:so that's my next step. Yeah, so try and see which avenue I'm going to see to get into a shop yeah, yeah, it's a interesting question, Cause you asked me like what's the first step?
Speaker 2:And I think really you know that's a important question because I think a lot of times, like when you look at those pages and you look at, you know I guess they're not pages, they're web pages. Now, instead of like physical. Uh, you know sheets, but um, when you look at those it's kind of intimidating, eh.
Speaker 1:Oh, very much. So, yeah, you know what I finally want to make you jump through some hoops to make sure you're serious. Yeah, big time. Because when I got some help from the nation to go to post-secondary schooling, I had to jump through a lot of fucking hoops, man, and I figured I want to make sure you're for real, and so it can be intimidating looking into these things.
Speaker 2:So, um, yeah, I appreciate all the help you're giving me yeah, so I just wanted to give, I guess, some basic uh information for people who may be listening, who may be interested. I just thought it was a good opportunity to share here on the podcast some knowledge that I have just because I have uh applied for and received a number of grants from a number of granting agencies. You know, when I think about, you know, for the Canada Council for the Arts they're actually part of supporting this podcast, so it's, you know, maybe a good thing to talk about and give them a lift up.
Speaker 1:Yeah, true that man.
Speaker 2:So you know, the first thing for the Canada Council is you go to the website, you go to the portal and you have to set up your portal, your portfolio, right.
Speaker 2:So you're going to add some of your work, You're going to add like your CV, and so basically a CV is called a curriculum vitae, which is like your resume, your artist resume okay and you would put down on there things like uh you know when you started tattooing any art shows if you've been in art shows any, you know, uh, in terms of a tattoo artist, you could put your guest spots that you've been okay. Uh, you'd put, like your blood-borne pathogen certificate. You know when you got it, when you updated it. You know any training that you have. I would also say, even in terms of your own experience, you could put like working on the tugboat, she said, because for me that's like inspiration for the work that you're doing in the future, right, because of the knowledge that you get just from knowing water right.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, all of that stuff is relevant. So you just put all of those things that you have been a part of and look for opportunities to add to that CV. Whether it's like somebody's asking for a contribution to an exhibition, a group exhibition, just submit some stuff right. Okay, so that's the first step. You put up your CV, put up, you know, a portfolio and then they'll ask you to describe you know what?
Speaker 2:basically what I asked you what your journey in in the art practice okay and so usually that takes like 30 days for them to look at it and to uh agree that you fit the criteria for the area that you are applying to. So I can't I don't know them off by heart, but you know, there's the creating, knowing and sharing, which is the indigenous stream of arts funding. There's media art, and I can't remember what the other one is, but, like fine artists, I guess.
Speaker 2:I can't remember exactly what that one is. But there's different streams that you can apply for, and so then you would just think of a project. And so then you would just think of a project Like what is the project that you would want to create that fits within the parameters of you know that certain grant that you're applying for? So some of them could be a travel grant, like, hey, I want to go to New Zealand, I want to hook up with the homies at the indigenous tattoo gathering, the Toikiri. It's every year in October. That sounds awesome. If you want to go there and and like so you can apply for funding to go there okay, and then, um, then you just look out for the time frames.
Speaker 2:So it's really just imagining. What is the project? Well, the project could be well, for example, uh, the intercut muck block work project. So that was a project where I decided I wanted to take Inca Cutmuck designs, patterns and motifs and stretch them to fit the whole human body, so creating a contemporary, a truly contemporary Inca Cutmuck tattooing practice. So when I think of your work, just spitballing, just throwing an eye out, not saying that you have to do it, but here's an example of something just from the shirt conversation that we've had Maybe you want to take some more training on black and gray charcoal drawing.
Speaker 2:That's a good idea get funding to go do that, and then maybe you want to go get funding to uh learn some more stuff up in your nation so you could pay for a trip up to work with a, uh, contemporary uh, you know someone who does does form line design right from that'd be amazing too and then I would say, like the larger project would be you want to create more examples of references like flash, or you know available designs that merge those two?
Speaker 2:right, so that's a project that you could apply for. So your end goal is hey, I want to do these type of tattoos, which are unique to me, a style that I'm developing that takes these contemporary and these ancestral ways of creating art and merging them, and I want to get more skill in that. So that would be a project that you could apply for and you'd get funding. You could apply to get funding for training in the drawing part and also the designing part for form line and then time.
Speaker 2:So part of it is also making sure that you have time, because of course you have to make a living, so you'd put like a subsistence amount because, you're taking away from, of course, tattooing, which is your livelihood yeah you're taking away time for that, so you would put time into creating this brand new style from your community. So that would be an example of a project that you could do that sounds amazing I didn't realize there was so much support available.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, yeah, I'm pretty excited about this shit yeah, and then of course in bc I know there's the first people's cultural council okay, so they do a lot of stuff with language. They do a lot of stuff supporting the arts as well yeah, so there's another uh one here in bc that I'm aware of um you could look for other, of course, each province. So arts nova scotia is another supporter of the podcast, as well as the exhibition alongside canada council for the arts for the exhibition that we're doing.
Speaker 2:You know they both provided support for the true tribal exhibition. Okay, so you just think of these things that you would want to uh develop and there's probably provincial ones as well for artists and then you just go and do that same process yeah and look for those opportunities. Another one actually would be uh, I did, it was the yvr masterpiece uh study program okay, I don't know the exact name of it, but it's something like that, but it's the yvr masterpiece.
Speaker 2:When I did it was the masterpiece study grant and so that took me to the burke museum in uh, seattle and I looked at, uh, all of these different baskets from my community. So that could be another stream. You know you could do that. I know they fund people to go to the American Museum of Natural History in New York. You could get funding to go. You know, and I would even say part of that is reaching out to the local museums and say, hey, I want to come look at our shit.
Speaker 2:I want to come look at those kin that are in the museums.
Speaker 1:Yeah right.
Speaker 2:So starting that research of, like, studying those ancestors that are in the museum, those, yeah baskets for you would be box designs, all of those type of things yeah, the frontlets and things like this have been amazing yeah, so those are ideas of like things you could do that sounds great.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know what I've been wanting? To go to the museum of anthropology so bad. Yeah, I remember going in elementary school with this native support worker. Yeah, and um, even at a young age I was I was fucking amazed by the art in there. Yeah, like it blew me away and that's. I really started my love for the culture and art form. Yeah, um, you know, like being growing up in vancouver kind of disconnected from my culture and people yeah um, that's when I first seen all the art and I was blown away like that.
Speaker 2:This shit even existed, yeah, and I've been dying to go back there actually, but it's under um renovation right now well, uh, as part of the exhibition, I have it set up so that you can visit the ancestral objects there at the museum of vancouver. So, on the 28th you'll. There'll be the collection staff will be there and you know, uh, if you haven't had an opportunity to look at their collections already, yeah um, then we can do it right there.
Speaker 2:Part of that could be just go down in the collections and I just call it walk the stacks, because there's stacks and stacks and stacks I bet in the, you know, in the basement of all the objects, and you're just like, can you grab that for me? And I'll pull it out and you can have a look at it. That's amazing. So part of that for me is like supporting local indigenous tattoo artists and practitioners to get access to these things, because it's important for us to visit them yeah, yeah, yeah, I can't wait.
Speaker 1:Man, this sounds great. Actually, uh, my spouse, uh, malehood tattoos as well. She's she's gonna join me and like we're both super excited to see all of this.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's going to be exciting and I look forward to meeting you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it'll be good.
Speaker 2:You know, when I think about that is part of that is finding that inspiration Because you really get to see. You know, because so much of the narrative is that we're, you know, savage and dumb and all of that stuff when you look at the things that your ancestors created, you're like fuck, they were amazing you know, like you think of the tools that they had to create those things and how powerful and beautiful they are yeah, you know it totally flips that reality in your mind, it's like no, they weren't any of that.
Speaker 2:That was their shit that they put on us.
Speaker 1:I look at that and I think of Savage in a different way I look at them like they're motherfucking Savage.
Speaker 2:Like yeah, they did.
Speaker 1:I think of that as now, like when I call myself a Savage. It's in a good fucking way, you know. Yeah me, it's in a good fucking way, you know, yeah me too. Like what they accomplish with the tools had is it's fucking amazing.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, I'm looking forward to that. Yeah, when you uh, you know, I guess when you think about uh, you know you said you had some other questions for me when you walked in, you know you wanted to explore some things. Uh, do you have anything in mind that you'd like to ask me in terms of tattooing, anything else about the grants or anything else?
Speaker 1:I just would like to hear a little more about your tattoo story.
Speaker 2:Yeah, for sure. I think it's kind of similar in terms of like, well, I guess when I think back, it was looking at my uncles had these tattoos. My uncle had a tattoo on his arm for when he did some like military stuff, army stuff, and then my other uncle had, you know, some tattoos on his hands and arms and stuff and I always looked at him like, oh, they're so badass. It just made you think like they're awesome, right, you know, it just made you think like they're awesome, right, you know?
Speaker 2:like you're heroes, right and so I was like I love tattoos, then, of course, uh, tattoo magazines, you know, uh, I always say that you know, uh, a lot of people had, like you know, different singers or different bands or like actors or whatever.
Speaker 2:Mine were all like tattoo artists and tattoo models in my room. All over all the posters I had up, um, and of course, some like dragons and stuff, because I was into martial arts back in the day, but that was kind of the mix of stuff hanging up in my room and then, yeah, one day I was actually I was going to get work done on this right sleeve, which is now covered up, which is blacked out, but it was a culturally appropriated Mari sleeve, a Mari-inspired tattoo that you know a local artist did for me. Of course I asked him to do it and you know he did his best, but it's just was not, it's not authentic, not actually Maori, and so I've covered it up and I always tell that part of the story because I think it's important for people to remember is we don't know what we don't know and yeah exactly once we know better, we do better, and so, yeah, I just took the steps to get it covered up, not because I was embarrassed or anything anymore.
Speaker 2:You know, my Maori friends would tease me a little bit sometimes here and there, like oh what's that?
Speaker 2:I thought I knew all the forms, but the fuck is that one? It's contemporary Maori, yeah, but yeah. So I just decided, you know, it was time to cover that up and take those steps, to move in a different direction with it. But anyways, I found a pamphlet that was called Tattooing, face and Body Painting of the Thompson Indians, and so the Thompson Indians is one of the names that was given to my nation. You know, we call ourselves Inthakamuk.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:But I saw that and I was like what the hell? And I always say like my head just about popped off when I seen it, because I didn't realize. So that's why it resonated when you said you were reading through that book and you're like what this is like we fucking tattooed it's Pivotal Moment.
Speaker 1:I actually got chills. Just that story, dude, yeah.
Speaker 2:So when you were telling that story, I'm like, yep, I can relate to that, and so I seen that and it sat in my heart and my mind like well, actually at that time I thought, oh, I could do master's research on that, even though I didn't have an undergraduate degree.
Speaker 2:I wasn't, you know, signed up to get one. But for whatever reason, I was like, oh, I could research that in school and then I was a bouncer, bartender, all that shit at the time. So that just sat dormant for a long time until I realized how powerful our tattooing is and how powerful the revival and the embodiment of those marks is for our people. You know, because when you look out into the world, you realize that suicide is like the number two killer of our youth and our young people. Right, and so I was like, well, what can we do to help to anchor our youth to this reality?
Speaker 2:You know, of course the choice to exit is, you know, a very complicated issue. But part of that the research says is the destruction of our identity and our destruction of a view of the future. Right, and so I was like I recognized what tattooing and the revival of it was doing in new zealand, uh for, uh, the maori. The phrase that comes to mind is our identity, is our power, and so that came from an academic article and I was like, wow our identity is our power.
Speaker 2:And then I read another article about the receiving of the triple 11s of uh the people in northern and southern California who were getting their triple 11s, uh, the women who were receiving those facial markings. And I heard the story of El Frank Manriquez, who got their tattoo and looked in the mirror and said like it's always been there. And then, when asked to you know expound on that, she gave the example of it's like reaching hands across time and holding hands with long past aunties, grandmas, great grandmothers, and holding their hands in the present.
Speaker 1:That's what it felt like for her to get that. That's amazing.
Speaker 2:And then she, and so I realized that and she said the one quote that I always quote her on. It was kind of fun to share this in a presentation in Santa Fe, new Mexico. Share this in a presentation in Santa Fe, new Mexico, at the uh ancestral skin uh symposium.
Speaker 1:And uh, l Frank was actually sitting in the audience when I gave her quote.
Speaker 2:So that was kind of cool. Um shout out to L Frank Um. She said that our youth are like seaweeds without roots. And then she said but our tattooing is a way to anchor them to today, to give them those roots. And so I realized that it was my job to revive into karmic tattooing and so I started my tattoo apprenticeship in 2009. In 2010, at 11, I was doing research about our tattoos, doing research about tattooing in indigenous communities and the revival of it, and then 2012 was the year that I skin stitched and hand poked my own leg.
Speaker 2:So I always quote that as like the official start of the revival of infacomic tattooing, even though I was doing research prior to that and so 2012 was the first time I would say that I started that revival and took that step to uh move from just uh doing, uh you know anything that came in the door to doing stuff for our communities yeah and so that's kind of like the journey has just continued since then and it's really been a journey to.
Speaker 2:Uh. What would you say like, just like you say, going with the flow, right, like this is the thing that I noticed that I have to do, so I'm going to do it, and who knows where it's going to be is actually cease. Uh weiss was here the other day. We were doing double leg sleeves. We started and she was like I bet you couldn't imagine where you'd be today when you first started.
Speaker 2:I was like no doubt, yeah, no doubt so uh yeah that's kind of my journey of like coming along that way, um you know, does any of that resonate? There is anything come up when I yeah, share that.
Speaker 1:you know, when you said about like helping out our nation and like the people, like coming up behind us, I love that you want to be an inspiration and help the the people like I find like there's so much intergenerational trauma and stuff and I find like even just tattooing indigenous people I see that it helps them so much sometimes, whether it be through the situation they're dealing with at the moment or stuff they've been dealing with their whole lives. You know, like sometimes that pain therapy is so great and like last week I tattooed over some scars for a girl and she was very young, her mother brought her in and to see the happiness on her afterwards that she could look down and like not see that memory anymore, right, it made me feel super honored to be able to do that for her. Um, I find like that itself will help.
Speaker 1:like I've tattooed myself many times as long as like um eight hours at a time yeah and uh, what first came to my mind when I tattooed myself for that long is I could kind of understand where people that mutilate themselves went to, because I would escape that, that that fucking painful thoughts or whatever, for hours and it would be like a release of endorphins or whatever. And even after I was done tattooing I feel like it was like medicine for me.
Speaker 1:You, know yeah so I think I was able to do that for people is great, like I would love to eventually. I've been thinking about going to touch base with the indigenous education center in vancouver here yeah like my mom was really good at like teaching us about our culture and things.
Speaker 1:Um, she would bring us to that amazing building downtown here and bring us to these feasts and like let us learn about our culture. And it's very powerful for me. So I've been wanting to reach out to them and like take a course myself, if they have one available, on our art. And you know, even though my, my style is very non-traditional, you know, down the road, I would love to teach kids one day. You know, like spread my knowledge I have.
Speaker 2:And like let them be able to escape into a to a sketch pad for a little bit hey there, listeners, it's dion kazas, your host from the transformative marks podcast, where we dive deep into the world of indigenous tattooing, ancestral skin marking and cultural tattooing.
Speaker 2:If you found value in our episodes we've made you laugh or you've learned something new consider showing your support by buying me a coffee on Ko-Ficom. Ko-fi is this incredibly creator-friendly platform where you can support me directly for just the cost of a cup of coffee. No subscriptions, no hidden fees, just a simple one-time gesture that goes a long way in keeping me on the air. Plus, ko-fi doesn't take a cut, so every penny goes directly into improving the podcast, from updating equipment to visiting with new guests as I go into recording Season 2. So if you like what you hear and you'd like to help me keep the lights on, head over to my Ko-Fi page, wwwko-ficom. Forward slash transformative marks. The link is in the show notes. Yeah, and I would say I resonate with that when you were talking about it in terms of escaping that meditation of tattooing, and I would relate that back to my own experience as a young person a youth. That would have been my escape.
Speaker 2:If I was having stress or whatever, I could go and draw right escape, like you say, escape into that drawing pad, escape into that paper, and so, yeah, I totally understand how that transfers to even today. You know you, you know a lot of times people say, oh, you got to make sure you're, like, in the right frame of mind, uh, when you go into that work.
Speaker 2:But I find that as soon as that machine starts, as soon as we put that stencil on, like everything just switches on and I'm in a different place where I'm helping to support that client, that person that I'm collaborating with to bring that, uh, tattoo to life right right, and so it just changes and you're like in that meditative state for that time that you're with that person yeah so I find that it's you know, uh, you know I, I can see how that translates and I would say, and I would encourage you yeah, reach out to those people. And this will probably be next time you hear it. If you forget, you'll hear this come out and you'll be like, oh shit, I gotta go down there.
Speaker 1:Talk to them. Definitely, I'll definitely forget, so this will be your reminder to go.
Speaker 2:Uh, go, reach out to those folks and take some stuff you know for sure, it's always good for us to continue to learn and to develop. Um, even though we're happy with where we are at, it's always, you know, nice to be able to, to develop and change and move forward. Yeah, does anything else come up for you in terms of you know my story or you know I had another thought, but it's gone now.
Speaker 1:So that goes. No, it was really good to hear your story though. Yeah, yeah, I appreciate that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's. You know, I always like to tell that story because, yeah, I think that it's important for us to, like you say, change that narrative in terms of that intergenerational trauma is. You know, my friend, the Han, says that. You know, a lot of times, you know, people will have some of those self-harm scars and you know you put that, you know that mark of who you are on there and it's like you don't see those scars anymore right you see who you are.
Speaker 2:As you know, an intricate mark, orutsu atan or a Tlingit person. You see that mark and you identify with that.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:It holds you up right.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So, so what are your plans for the future For?
Speaker 2:me. You know it depends on the day. You ask me to be honest Makes sense.
Speaker 2:You know, sometimes I dream of opening my own shop. Uh, you know, that shop would look like a uh, you know, of course, a studio, but that studio would have space for visiting artists. You know, uh, it would primarily be an indigenous space. Um, if it wasn't just indigenous artists, it would take a really special, uh, non-indigenous person to be able to fit into that space. So I'm not saying it would be only indigenous, but that would probably be the plan, right. And then, you know, uh, it would also like have set up for a platform so if people who come, who tap, they could come and tap. You know, because you always get people. Hey, I want to get an indigenous tattoo, okay, well, what do you want to get? Usually it's form line or it's polynesian right, yeah, and I'm like you know.
Speaker 2:Yes, I have some training in form line from friends and colleagues from the northwest coast, but I'm not, you know, really connected ancestrally to those designs, so I don't do them anymore you know, occasionally I will, but uh, I just, uh, don't always feel comfortable being known as the form line guy when I'm not from a community that does form line right right, and so what I would do is I'd be like hey, my buddy's coming down, he does form line, why don't you wait three months and we'll book you in with him, right?
Speaker 2:or I'd be like hey uh, my friend's coming over from uh samoa or from new zealand or from, you know, uh, the cook islands. They're coming. They can do that work for you. So if you wait, you can get the stuff then right right, and so it would just be, you know, exposing the Turtle Island to the practice of indigenous tattooing and the fullness that it is.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And then there would be a part of like a like an art gallery, like a commercial art gallery space where I'd pay friends, you know, for their artwork and then I would sell it in that gallery.
Speaker 1:That's cool, I like that.
Speaker 2:And then the last part of that I always dream of having, like an indigenous tattoo museum so there's a second you know, a section for hawaii, section for the philippines, a section for uh samoa, section for japan.
Speaker 2:You know, indigenous people of japan, a section for all different indigenous people from across the world and highlighting the work that they do, both past and contemporary. Right, because I think it's important to, yes, acknowledge the history but also acknowledge those who are doing the work today. You know, uh, creating the new, old, as my friend, friend Julia Mungiao Gray, says.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:You know, creating the new, old. So we have to acknowledge, yes, this is the history, but this is also the contemporary practitioner.
Speaker 1:I like that. The new, old, yeah, because this is culture, right. Yeah, even though it's new and we're creating it. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's always evolved right.
Speaker 1:For sure.
Speaker 2:Yeah, when I think about that concept is like there's that critique, oh well, that's new, that's not. You know your culture, but but can? People in England and Ireland and Scotland are?
Speaker 1:not still living in fucking castles, but they're still who they are.
Speaker 2:They're not wearing the clothing that they used to wear but, they're still from that culture used to wear right, but they're still from that culture, still from that. Yeah, straight up, like why the fuck do we have to still be you know, uh, you know, living in the way that our ancestors lived to be truly indigenous? It's like nah, fuck that shit this is new indigenous.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, you know what I've been thinking about wanting to like skin stitch myself, actually too, and do like some traditional skin pokes. Yeah, like I want to get my clan Symbol on my chest as it was traditional. Yeah, but I was thinking like it'd be nice to get it done traditionally, you know. Yeah, big time but um, I don't know, for some reason I want to try it myself. Yeah you know like I Would just be stumbling through it, but I don't know that, that want, has been in the back of my brain for a while now.
Speaker 2:Cool, yeah, well, we can probably help to facilitate that experience of at least learning how to do the stitch. You know I'll be here for a little bit, so a couple other folks are coming through too, so maybe we can get together for a tattoo party, as we usually do that sounds awesome.
Speaker 2:Dude just show you how to do it. You know because it is uh, it is, I think you'd have an easy time. You know getting it because you already know how to use machine and what you know the right depth looks like when you do it, because sometimes you're like, no, that's not deep enough, because you know the right depth looks like when you do it, because sometimes you're like no, that's not deep enough, because you know that that's not going to heal in yeah right.
Speaker 2:So it's the same thing with any other type of uh stuff. So, yeah, I'm sure we can figure out a way to at least get you a few stitches and then you can, you know, start rolling on your own sounds great, man yeah yeah, um, and I would say, yeah, it brings up an interesting, uh, an interesting part of the conversation around, like contemporary, traditional right, um, in terms of.
Speaker 2:I would say that you know, sometimes I do critique the, uh, the sentiment that it has to be with the hand tools, but I do that because I want people who have work with the machine not to feel a sense of shame right, because a lot of time it's like, uh, oh, that wasn't done with hand poke or that wasn't done with stitch, that was done with machine.
Speaker 2:So it's something to feel ashamed about. But I'm like, no, you know, we are contemporary people and these are our ancestral tools today. Yeah, right, yeah, um. But having said that, having said that, I would say that, uh, when you receive work using the ancestral tools and technology, it is a different experience, right, and you feel a different connection because, of course, that is truly connected back, because that's what our ancestors used and the way that kione says it is, when you feel that tapping it's like a time machine, because you know that that's something that your ancestors felt and it's something you can do today. That, uh, your ancestors did, and so you can feel exactly what they felt, right, and I would say that's similar to like, say, being out on a canoe, right, one of the ancestral canoes, or, you know, traveling in a way that our ancestors traveled. They're walking on the paths that they walked on yeah right, um, going on those vision quests like they did.
Speaker 2:Those are all things that connect us back and give us a different experience than the contemporary experience. That's not putting down the contemporary experience, but it's holding up what our ancestors did and you'll feel I think you will sense and feel a different feeling than you will when you receive a machine right mark.
Speaker 1:yeah, I could see that. I would love that. I think that makes me think of um. You know, growing up down here not in touch with my nation too much, I recently went to a wet suit and feast an urban feast that the nation came down and put on for us living off reserve and um, just being in the room with that many people of my nation after, like most of my life, not feeling like I fit in, I got chills just walking in there and then hearing every speaker come up and speak our language blew my mind, like it made me feel a sense of belonging and just I don't know, I don't know.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I could totally, I could totally understand how that could feel that way.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I could totally. I could totally understand how that could feel that way. Yeah, yeah, you get a. You kind of got a sense of what that feeling feels like when you get those marks. In the same way, when you felt when you walked in, you were just like this is home.
Speaker 1:Yeah, right, yeah. I had never felt that way my whole life, and this was just recently.
Speaker 2:In the last few months, yeah, um yeah, it was a really cool experience. Yeah, that must have felt like almost life-changing to step in there and feel that connection that you've never felt it was, it was um.
Speaker 1:My mom went back to um, our home landed at a very young age and I never understood why, yeah, but I totally understood that day, yeah, like because it was, it was I don't know.
Speaker 2:I felt it through my whole body, this unbelievable sense of like, belonging yeah, yeah, it brings up something important too, I think, to explore is the reality is that a lot of people are disconnected from our communities and that's not any of our fault. That was part of the colonial project. You know you have to move to get away from things, you have to move to move towards things. So, jobs, opportunities, education, all of that type of stuff is important to acknowledge is that, uh, those people that are disconnected you know it wasn't their fault that they became disconnected so it's important for us to take steps who are connected and reconnecting, to provide opportunities to reconnect our people? Because the reality is, is that the more that people that we have working with us, moving in the right direction, the more power and the more strength that we have as communities, cultures and nations? Right, yeah, yeah, I think you know we've had a good conversation. Is there anything else that comes up?
Speaker 2:for you that uh, you want to explore, uh, any other ideas that have come up as we've been bullshitting around not really man.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's been a good conversation. Be cool to um. Be cool to connect on a work level one day and do some tattooing together. Like you said, the stitching, but machine as well. It'd be cool to come out east one day and check out where you're at.
Speaker 2:Yeah, man, it'd be awesome Do some guest spots and things. Yeah, I just had one of my friends, tristan Jenny Sanderson Cree artist out of Edmonton. Tristan Jenny Sanderson Cree, artist out of Edmonton, works out of Edmonton, is going to be coming down for the Halifax Tattoo Convention. That'll be happening in May and she's going to do a guest spot, or they're going to do a guest spot just before we you know we go into that convention. So you know, next time that comes up I'll have to send you the link to it.
Speaker 1:Sounds great, it'd be cool to be able.
Speaker 2:That's one of my dreams as well.
Speaker 2:You asked what's one of my dreams for the future is that and that's why I invited so many of the local Indigenous tattoo artists and practitioners to come to the exhibition and then, the day after we're going to have a meet and greet visit, go visit the collections at the museum of vancouver is to start to build that sense of community. And of course, we may not all get along, we may not all see the same, but if we're coming together as community, we can put some of that aside so we can support each other, support our clients, because sometimes you may be like, oh, I'm not the right fit for that.
Speaker 2:You can go to that person, right right um, but also my dream is that we start to take over some of those conventions, so it'd be like a lane of all indigenous tattoo artists super dope so for me part of that was like me being you know me and one other polynesian guy in the convention right yeah, so it'd be nice to be able to have, uh, you know, a whole bunch of us, you know 20, 30 of us just at us.
Speaker 2:Every, you know we set up and be like, hey, I'm going to this convention, you know, sign up, and we all sign up and do our, you know I would love that dude.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I have a dream that I have, so, fuck, I'd love to be part of that dream. Yeah, that sounds super dope. I think it's cool. Like I feel like, um, indigenous tattoos are now becoming more common, now that, um, you know, people want to pay homage to that part of bc's culture. Yeah, you know, I have people ask me all the time, what do you think about non-indigenous people getting our tattoos? And I feel, if you want to pay homage to that part of culture that was almost lost, like let's bring the shit back. Let's, let's spread the spread the knowledge and the love you know yeah, big time so I would love to be a part of that.
Speaker 1:Sounds great.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know what I think that's the one thing I always talk about when that conversation comes up is like rights, relationship and responsibility yes, wear that mark, but make sure that you have the rights and the relationship to it, and the way that you do that is by receiving it from somebody who has the rights to give it right, right and so that's why it's important to you know, go to yourself if you want to get some of that form line work, or go to another northwest coast tattooer who does that work, or commission someone hey, I want to get this eagle.
Speaker 2:Can you design that for me? And you know you could go to, uh, a northwest coast artist or a tattooer to get that done but at least then not only are you paying homage to that culture, you're're also supporting that culture in that community, right?
Speaker 2:Instead of siphoning it off, just taking it and running right. So yeah, and I think you know, from my own perspective as well, when I think about the work that I do, especially the big work you know, a lot of that is about creating opportunities for transformation is the way that I would.
Speaker 2:I would phrase that, and by creating opportunities for transformation, that sometimes people's ability to look at their body, look in the mirror and see something beautiful and see themselves as the beautiful, beautiful person and the beautiful being that they are, and sometimes that takes some type of external transformation and sometimes that's tattooing, you know, another way of transformation is that internal experience of not feeling like you have power. You know, a lot of times in, uh, when we're, when I'm doing the work, people step out of receiving that work and I'm pretty sure you know you have had that own experience.
Speaker 1:They look in the mirror and they just stand a little bit taller oh fuck, yeah, yes, for sure, yeah, man, you know, I've I said to my buddy, uh, who I started tattooing with, you know, like, um, sometimes I feel like more myself, yeah, once I get it done. You know, and I got one, one tattoo that was like it was a big scar, cover-up, yeah, and uh, you know it wasn't the greatest memory, you know.
Speaker 1:Like you know, I've lost fights, but that one was like it showed you know, so I got that covered and it was like it's like it's not even there, yeah. And I remember telling him that day I'm like fuck dude, like you, just you just made me more me, you know, like appreciate you, yeah. And and I walked out of that tattoo shop walking so much more taller, you know. I love that we can do that for people too.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's the nice experience of like you see people walk out and you're just like dang, even though maybe it was a hard day. You know, maybe it was a hard piece. You know you've been sitting there six eight hours. Your back is aching, six eight hours. Your back is aching, your hand is all throbbing. But you see them walk out and you're just like dang.
Speaker 2:you know I get to do that, I get to help people do that yeah and so for me, when I think about uh, when I think about this creating opportunities for transformation through tattooing, we all need opportunities for transformation, and that's not only an indigenous thing, that's a human thing.
Speaker 1:And so for me.
Speaker 2:that's why I'm open to sharing the work that I do, even though it's ancestral work, Because I want to create opportunities for transformation for everyone. To feel more beautiful, to feel more connected to who they are, to feel powerful to be the superhero in their own fucking story, you know totally man so yeah, that's kind of uh when I think about the sharing of our work and our culture and those marks uh for tattoos. That's what I think about is, you know, create and creating opportunities for connection because of course like uh, you know this is the first day that we've met right.
Speaker 2:Um, yes, maybe we look at each other's work and admire it, but until we actually have a connection we can't start to build into whatever the future is and the way that we do that is together right, and so we can't do that unless we're creating opportunities for connection. So I would say, when it comes to that cross-cultural connection, that's not only between indigenous nations, but that's uh also uh, those other nations and communities from across the world yeah we create opportunities to come and bullshit, because you know I have non-indigenous clients that I've tattooed.
Speaker 2:You know we've spent 20, 30, 40 hours together.
Speaker 1:You know they're now my homie yeah, right, and it's like definitely they become part of family. Sometimes, yeah, you get sad.
Speaker 2:You're like oh, we're done, your sleeve what?
Speaker 1:what's your next sleeve gonna be?
Speaker 2:yeah, let's start a leg sleeve yeah yeah, I know how that goes but, yeah, I just wanted to put that out there and share that. And uh, yeah, I'm super thankful to meet you and uh, you know, I think your story is inspiring in terms of, uh, those steps that you've taken to you know, uh, step into your culture, but also to step into the work of tattooing and also, representing your community and your culture through the work that you do yeah, it's been an honor, it's been a pleasure man.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's great to meet you cool.
Speaker 2:Hey, everyone, thanks for stopping by and taking this journey with me, uh, through this episode. I hope you enjoyed it. I'll just ask that you would go and subscribe, uh, if you haven't already done so and if you have subscribed, thank you very much. I appreciate you. Following this journey, I just want you to remember that, no matter who you are, where you're from, what you've done or what you've been through, that you are amazing, that you are loved and that we need you, here today and going into the future, so that we can transform this world for the better through our collective thoughts, actions, feelings and our compassion for each other as human beings.
Speaker 2:Head on over to next week's episode, where I talk to Naomi King. In this episode, we talk about creating imaginary worlds and the healing aspects of Botox. Remember, every coffee helps me to bring you the content that you love. So head over to my Ko-Fi page and let's make something great together. And the last thing that I will ask you is to do me a solid and share this episode with somebody that you think will enjoy it. Thanks a lot and see you next week.