How An Indigenous Bodysuit Becomes A Healing Practice with Ecko Aleck

063 A year after the last needle pass, what’s left is not just ink, it’s a new way of living inside your own skin. I’m back with Ecko Aleck, who returns to reflect on what it’s actually been like to live with a full bodysuit long after the swelling fades, including the moment the markings helped make it impossible to keep hiding and led her to come out publicly as Two-Spirit.

We talk about the hard, honest mechanics of transformation during ancestral skin marking and cultural tattooing: hitting a pain threshold, the shaking that can take over, and the deep breaths that follow. Ecko connects breathwork to waves and even to childbirth, where you grieve an old self while bringing a new self forward. We also explore trauma-informed practice in real terms, including the idea that shaking can be part of completing a trauma cycle and why grounding through the senses can bring you back when your mind tries to flee.

From warm hands and aromatherapy to a heavy blanket and a “wellness basket,” we break down what community care looks like in a tattoo room and why support people can be foundational, not optional. We also zoom out to the bigger arc: monumental Indigenous portraiture, stewardship, the power of practitioner gatherings like the Nlaka'pamux Blackwork Roundup, and how personal healing ripples outward into family, community, and the planet.

If you care about Indigenous tattooing, ancestral skin marking, Two-Spirit identity, healing, and what real transformation demands, hit play. Subscribe, leave a review, and share this conversation with someone who needs a reminder that they are not alone.

You can find Ecko @sac.red.medicine

Check out my tattoo work at:
https://www.consumedbyink.com
Instagram @dionkaszas

Buy me a Coffee at:
https://ko-fi.com/transformativemarks

I acknowledge the support of the Canada Council for the Arts, ArtsNS and Support4Culture

Transcript

Welcome Back And Why An Update

SPEAKER_01 0:00

And it just it just felt like all of the pieces that I was trying to hide and keep quiet and keep shy or small in some sort of way, the the empowerment from receiving this bodysuit has just like shattered all of that.

SPEAKER_04 0:16

The Transformative Marks podcast explores how indigenous tattoo artists, cultural tattoo practitioners, and ancestral skin markers transform this world for the better, dot by dot, line by line, and stitch by stitch. My name is Dion Kazas. I'm a Hungarian, Metis, and Intakutmuk professional tattoo artist and ancestral skin marker. I started the work of reviving my ancestral intakmuck skin marking practice over a decade ago. I've helped, supported, and trained practitioners and tattoo artists here on Turtle Island. In this podcast, I sit down with indigenous tattoo artists, cultural tattoo practitioners, and ancestral skin markers from across the globe, bringing you behind the scenes of this powerful, transformative, and spiritual work.

SPEAKER_01 1:01

I'm Hensla Kawea and Squash. My ancestral name is Kawaya. My English name is Echo Aleck. I'm from the Inflikotmak Nation. My parents are Shinkyap, Terry Aleck, and Kollegik Robin Atkinson. My family comes from Tekamchin and we carry Grizzly Bear Medicine.

SPEAKER_04 1:20

Awesome. Yeah, I'm stoked to have you back. You know, you were what? The third, I think the third episode that we launched on January 9th of the uh Transport of Marks. And I think that was what, like, was that the day we finished your back piece? Like your body?

SPEAKER_01 1:39

I think it was actually.

SPEAKER_04 1:40

I think it was that day.

SPEAKER_01 1:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:43

Or no, it was the day after.

SPEAKER_01 1:46

That's right.

SPEAKER_04 1:47

Yeah, so fresh. Yeah, really fresh. So I just thought it was important to do an update just because you have been living with your bodysuit now for a number of months. Like coming on, what six, seven, eight months? That would have been October.

SPEAKER_01 2:03

That was we went to Costa Rica and I was done. So it's been it's been more than a year.

SPEAKER_04 2:10

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_01 2:13

It's been more than a year.

SPEAKER_04 2:15

That's crazy, hey. Wow. Yeah. Yeah, that's right. Because that was okay.

SPEAKER_02 2:23

That's wild. Yeah. That is wild.

SPEAKER_04 2:25

It is kind of crazy. So yeah, I thought it was kind of an opportunity to do an update to see how, you know, living with the work.

SPEAKER_03 2:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 2:33

What that's been like. And also, you know, explore some of the new things that you've been getting up to since we did our first interview. And I also thought it was important because we're really in an important time and space in the work in the Intacop of Black Work Roundup. So maybe, you know, pick any of those that you'd like to explore and to start uh, you know, talking about, and we'll go from there.

Coming Out Two-Spirit Through Markings

SPEAKER_01 3:02

I'm I'm so grateful for like the opportunity to come back and land in. Um so often when I speak about the markings, I talk about the in-between space, like the the time in between our sessions, um and now the afterwards, like there's so much that happens in that that in-between space. And so part of the journey that happened for me uh through our sessions was allowing pieces of myself that I had kept hidden or quiet for a really long time to be as loud as possible. Um I had people around me my whole life who have known that I'm two spirit and I never spoke about it. I was so afraid. Uh and through receiving the markings and then completing the bodysuit, there was just this like I can't hide anymore. It was like pushing it up and out. Um and it just it just felt like all of the the pieces that I was trying to hide and keep quiet and keep shy or small in some sort of way. The the empowerment from receiving this bodysuit has just like shattered all of that. Um so I came out publicly as two spirit and have allowed myself to like slowly, gently step into that, however that that means. Um, but it feels like I'm finally showing up to everything I do in my life as my whole self. Um so that's been a huge, huge piece is just allowing those those quiet little voices that exist to finally have a say in things.

SPEAKER_04 4:51

Wow. Yeah, that's so powerful. Hey, in terms of like having that time to be able to go inside and to just reflect and to take those steps that you need to to come come into that full sense of who you are. It was that opportunity to do that work. Yeah, it's pretty cool. Like it's amazing. You know, when I think of uh, you know, all of the folks that I've talked to who've gotten the work, it's like what would you say? The like I didn't know, you know, I had a hunch that this would be like a really transformative process. Yeah, but I didn't know what that looked like or how that would manifest in each individual's life. And so, you know, it's pretty exciting to hear, you know, your journey because of course we've been, you know, slowly talking about things as time has gone on. But you know, after living with the marks for a year or so now, you know, um, there's lots of things shifting and changing, right?

SPEAKER_01 5:56

Yeah. It is, yeah, it's just completely wild to look back on who I was when I first stepped in to start this project with you and all of the ways that I was kind of like I was starting to step into it. Um and the journey of the ways that this has just completely strengthened my relationship with my ancestors too. Like they're so loud.

SPEAKER_03 6:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:23

And it's it's the same as that that internal voice as well. Like it's to a point where I can't ignore them anymore. And um, this year it has just become so vastly clear that my only role is to show up and to listen and then to act on the things that they're asking me to do. Wow. Um, that was like there were sparkles of that before, right? Of like, yeah, I think this is my journey.

SPEAKER_03 6:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:49

And um yeah, this year it's just been like they've like cleared things and moved things and shifted things and opened up all sorts of opportunities and doors. And they're like, okay, so we've helped you with this, this, that, and that. Now it's time to go.

SPEAKER_04 7:06

This is the way. I thought that's cool. Yeah, yeah, that's so amazing in terms of um yeah, that time that you have while you're getting that work done.

Pain Thresholds And The Shaking Point

SPEAKER_04 7:16

Because it's almost like sometimes we don't in some way take time just to be in our bodies, just to be, you know, even calm, even though you are not necessarily calm still, I would say.

SPEAKER_03 7:32

Still calm. You still freaking out a little.

SPEAKER_04 7:36

But yeah, that opportunity to sit for you know six, eight hours. And yes, uh, the experience is traumatic, but it's also uh a time that you have to be just in one spot, and yeah, you have nothing to do. Because of course, sometimes people will try to distract themselves with their phone or whatever, but that just never works. It's impossible.

SPEAKER_01 8:00

It just like it's like, no, I don't even know what I'm trying to do right now. Even with music, sometimes like you music's such a comfort thing for me, and I would try to play music on some of our and I was like, no, too much, too much going on.

SPEAKER_04 8:15

Um, one thing I wanted to explore that I've just been starting to think a lot about lately is that experience of um, you know, when you get to that place of like being all the way there in terms of like the pain and the experience and that like shaking that happens, and then those deep breaths that you take, and then it's almost like that's the point at which you're transformed.

SPEAKER_01 8:45

Yes, yes. Uh, there's so many. Um, I actually started writing a book because there was so much that came from uh like I like to see them as teaching models that come from the healing journey.

SPEAKER_02 8:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:57

Um, and there were so many just little things through our process together that contributed to my like lifelong healing journey and teaching model um story. Um and that point of shaking where you're you're reaching your like threshold of pain. Um in your mind, there's two different paths that you can take. And so often our human selves want to take the easy way out. Where we're like, nope, done, can't do this. And so we go through that, right? We go through that, like, no, I could just call it quits. Like, I know Dion would stop right now. Like, I could totally bail on this. So we go through that. And then the other side of that is like, what am I capable of? What am I truly capable of? That if I were to just shh my mind and sink into my body and trust my body, it already knows what to do. Um, like I've taken some breath work uh classes and ceremony, uh, had some guidance and support on learning how to work with my breath. And that was the most powerful tool through our process together. But um, when I worked with that breath work and then allowed my hands to kind of just guide the process, they would actually help to release trauma from certain parts of my body. Yeah, uh, I my brain wouldn't be able to figure that out. Yeah. But my body, yeah, it already knew what to do.

SPEAKER_02 10:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:31

Um and we witnessed that in uh I have a friend who's coming to mind right now as I'm speaking. She's an incredible athlete. And for her reaching her spiritual practice, like she struggles to sit down and meditate, but she can run and she will run past the point of her thinking she's capable of. And when she hits that point, is when she reaches her connection with her ancestors. And so it reminds me of that of like our ability to push past the threshold the threshold, yeah. Um, bridges us to the spirit world with our ancestors, where we can have a conversation, yeah, uh, where we can open up some like portals or pathways for them to come in and guide us a little bit further.

SPEAKER_04 11:16

Wow. Yeah. You know, uh, when I was thinking about it, so it's cool to start to like start thinking about these things, especially like as a practitioner observing, and then as like a person receiving, so starting to explore them in a pretty like diverse way is actually quite exciting. And you don't, and I don't always get the opportunity to talk to someone who has the ability to articulate it and to think about it in a really uh deep way. And when I think about it, I think it's in some ways that shaking is actually like a trauma response. And uh I was actually talking to Danita, uh Keith's wife, and Danita was saying that it's like actually the completion of a trauma cycle.

SPEAKER_03 12:05

Yeah, yep.

SPEAKER_04 12:06

It's like you because a lot of times, like, say if you get into an accident and you aren't hurt, but it's actually a traumatic experience, you will shake and then you'll breathe really deeply. And so I was talking to her, and I'm like, this is what I've intuitively recognized. And then she was like, the training that she's taking. She's like, Well, that's actually, yeah, it's actually the continuation of an unfinished trauma cycle.

SPEAKER_02 12:34

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 12:34

That you never were able to move through, and that's what that shaking is.

SPEAKER_02 12:38

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 12:39

And I was like, What? So it's pretty cool to start exploring these things because for me it's like observations of the work. And you know, I have seen as well, like people, you know, pushing in different places and doing that, you know, all throughout my career. And people are like, Oh, I feel that pain there, you know. And the first are like, oh, I don't know what that, like, and they're like, This is so weird. I feel that in my toe when you're like tattooing their neck or something, right? And so it's like, yeah, these are just all things that I'm now beginning to start to explore because I think that's also part of sharing that intuition, those ideas of you know, helping people to ground and all that stuff. So to hear you talking about it is also a powerful thing in terms of, and I would say it was also that experience of, you know, I just put my hand on your on your leg.

SPEAKER_01 13:33

That was a game changer for me.

SPEAKER_04 13:35

And grounded you, and then we came back out and we continued.

SPEAKER_01 13:39

Yeah, it taught me so much in that moment. Like I talk about that all the time. Um, in terms of, and as I stepped into being a practitioner, yeah, it taught me so much about how I hope to hold space for people. Yeah. Um, but also there are like that, you have such a warm body heat too, right? And I'm always really cold. And so that there was just this like anchoring of having a warm hand and this like gentle, particularly masculine energy that was just like anchored me back down to earth because I was in that mind state of wanting to smile. Like, no, uh the trauma that's particularly in my legs that like came up and out was it was almost too much to sit with sometimes.

SPEAKER_03 14:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:27

Um, but that it just completely transformed the way that I was able to like come back down and be in my body in that space.

SPEAKER_04 14:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 14:36

Yeah. Well, now I'm actually telling people, um, I'm like, welcome back.

SPEAKER_01 14:42

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 14:43

You know? It's because you know, you do start to go somewhere, and then, you know, as a practitioner, you just have to intuitively know, okay, we're pushing too, not too far, but too fast.

SPEAKER_01 14:55

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly. There's like a um, it's like growing pains, right? Like if we stretch too far, then we're gonna pull something. So we've got to like do our stretches beforehand and see how far we can push and then come back in and try again. And yeah, it's this whole like dance that we do.

SPEAKER_04 15:13

Totally, yeah. And it's so cool to see like uh the way that people move through that. And I think, and one of the things, yeah, that I really wanted to explore a little bit is that breath work that you do, right?

SPEAKER_03 15:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 15:28

Um, because I think that is so powerful people for people who may be going through the work, yes, right, as an opportunity to help people move through. So when you think of the breath work, what is that uh for you and what helps you to get through it in terms of the breath work?

Breathwork As Waves And Rebirth

SPEAKER_01 15:48

I always see breath work as waves. Um, and waves are showing up a lot in our channeling sessions right now that I'm doing with my friend Sammy. Um, we're in like these massive waves of change. And our bodies have that natural ability to find a rhythm and find its own waves to be able to move through the cycles of death and rebirth. Um, so tuning into that cycle, uh, it reminded me a lot of childbirth, where we're actually grieving as a mother, you're grieving the old versions of yourself. Like you're never gonna be that version of you again. So you're having to like move through the death of who you were to birth a new life into this world.

SPEAKER_02 16:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:34

And so the the breathing that I was doing actually reminded me a lot of childbirth, of like there was this new version of me that was asking to be birthed into the world.

SPEAKER_04 16:44

Wow. Yeah, that is just amazing in terms of like uh that picture. And I think that is really uh, it is very pertinent in terms of the transformation that happens when you're doing that work because it really is a transition. Like getting this big work really is a transition into a new person.

SPEAKER_01 17:06

Yeah, which the snake skin. Yeah, we don't talk about the snake skin a lot, the tattoos, right?

SPEAKER_04 17:12

Like let's say more about that.

SPEAKER_01 17:14

So I was completely obsessed with the afterwards. I hated the feeling of it, but the the visual of my skin shedding in the way that it did. And this pattern, right, is the snake pattern. Well, one of the meetings. Yeah. Um, and so I really embodied and like sat with what does that mean and what does that mean? And I'm physically shedding my skin right now. I am actually birthing a new version of myself.

SPEAKER_03 17:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:42

And that was just so cool to me in that in that afterwards and that in-between process. Um, I've never really been too keen on snakes, but they show up a lot in a lot of different ways. And I know that they always represent transformation, they always represent the shedding of the old and the rebirthing of the new. Yeah, so I learned to actually love that process and I want to talk about it all the time.

SPEAKER_04 18:11

Yeah, I think when I think back to our first interview, I think the way that you articulate it was is that I am uh shedding the old stories.

SPEAKER_01 18:20

Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_04 18:22

I think that's the word the narratives, yeah, those stories.

SPEAKER_01 18:26

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 18:26

Yeah, I think and I thought that was just so uh powerful in terms of yeah, letting go of all of those things as that skin was sloughing off and you know, re-regenerating a perfect a purposeful regeneration, yeah, right, because of course our skin does regenerate on its own, and yes, I don't know what the statistic is, but you have six seven years or something. So you do it like very intentionally, yeah, right. And that's what I'm starting to think about my practice as is intentional tattooing. You know, like all of these observations that I've had as a practitioner is like, okay, what are the principles that we can find there that then we can use to help people in their journeys as practitioners? And so yeah, it's just so I think that is such a good word for it is intention, right? Intentional, like we're stepping in. Oh, and the other thing that I was thinking about the observation I made as well is that a lot of the folks who have stepped into the work uh who have found the greatest amount of transformation are actually people who were on their own healing journey before they got. And so a lot of times people, I think when we talk about it, I think we have to be a little bit more nuanced in terms of what to expect when you come into the work.

SPEAKER_01 19:50

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_04 19:51

Yeah, absolutely. Because I know you have been on a journey for a while of transformation and healing and doing your own work, yeah. Which actually in my uh estimation or my way of thinking about it, is also honoring that you know, that is the 90% of the work person getting the work done has done and has to do, whereas it's only 10%. And so the practice isn't really about me, it's actually about the person getting the work.

SPEAKER_01 20:21

Yes, yes. And like the self-awareness journey, that was why I applied to receive a full bodysuit. I was like, I know this is the next, and almost I didn't, I don't know about like final, but final of that chapter to help me push through and get to the other, like the next version of myself.

SPEAKER_03 20:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:41

Um, so it was a very intentional relationship and to like enter into the project of like this is what I need to be able to push through that threshold.

SPEAKER_04 20:53

Yeah.

Tools For The Table Humor Voice Support

SPEAKER_04 20:54

When you think about that healing journey, um, you know, what are some of those key things that uh you had in your basket of uh I think you'd call it medicine tools and technology.

SPEAKER_03 21:09

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 21:10

Um, what were those key things that you needed in while getting the worker that brought you to that final transformation to bring you into the next phase?

SPEAKER_01 21:22

Um the first one is humor. Yeah. That's a whole lot of humor. We take ourselves way too seriously. Totally. And that really showed up on the table a lot, especially, you know, because I could just banter around with you and there would be moments of like silence. And I think the the allowing ourselves to sink into vulnerability and you really helped to create an environment where that was okay. Yeah. I generally show up as a hot mess to any woman, anyways, but you wouldn't experience. Um yeah, so just the the ability to like ride the wave. Of the different emotions and memories and traumas that we're going through instead of it's easy to pick one and then spiral down into it. And part of the practice helped me to acknowledge it, work with it, and then let it go.

SPEAKER_02 22:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:21

So there was a lot of, I just keep seeing waves, just these waves of like learning how to flow with the things that were showing up. Um my voice and being able to voice the things that I needed of like, hey, I need a break, I need to step outside for a minute, I need to breathe some fresh air, I need some water, I want a snack, I want a juice box.

SPEAKER_03 22:43

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_01 22:44

Those are things so often in general, I think, but when we show up into a space that isn't our home and it isn't our comfort zone, then we feel like we have to be quiet. We feel like we can't address our needs. I've had people uh witness me out in the world now, and they're like, your voice is so like you're so clear on what you need and what you want. And it's profound to folks who are still in a place of feeling like they can't voice their needs.

SPEAKER_03 23:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:18

Uh so that was a really interesting tool to like expand and play with and uh have it honored by the person I was working with, you know. Um my uh resources, the people that I could reach out to, you know, we would hit a spot and I would be like, oh my God, I'm gonna throw up. Like I have to figure out what this is. Yeah, you know, and I would get on the phone with a friend and who could help me when I wasn't able to hear myself or hear my ancestors properly because I like to filter everything and not listen to them. So sometimes I would have to reach out to those people. So having those resources on the external who knew the journey we were going through, but were like, you'll call me anytime and I can help you process this. That was a huge piece as well that we don't always think about as like within our tool basket of who our people are.

SPEAKER_02 24:15

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 24:16

And they play a huge role in, you know, I always say that it's I'm by community for community, like I'm community made. I'm not, I'm not self-made.

SPEAKER_03 24:27

Yeah, 100%. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 24:29

Yeah. And I would say for me, that is always relevant, especially when we have gatherings like this. Yeah. Right. It's like all of these people have played a part in you know, every single person in the room has played a part in every other person's journey. Yeah. Because it's this the support and love that I have from them that helps me to do everything else. And so, yeah, I think those are all like essential. Are there anything else that you can think of? In 2006, I found a tiny pamphlet while getting my right sleeve done uh entitled Tattooing Face and Body Painting of the Thompson Indians. I didn't know we, as intercouple people, had a tattooing practice. That pamphlet changed everything for me. Now, 20 years later, I've gathered friends and colleagues together who are on the exact same journey, and I've edited a collection of 18 artists from 14 different nations, all embarking on the same journey, bringing back those things which colonization tried to erase. Truly Tribal Drops, May 7th, 2026.

SPEAKER_01 25:43

When we started the journey, and this has shifted, but when we started, I physically trained my body. I wanted to be like physically strong going into the session. And what happened is through our process, I uncovered a um like endometriosis that my body was carrying as a part of my lifetime trauma that I've had. Uh with that and my brain injury, my tuning into the chronic pain that I was carrying in my body and was ignoring became very, very loud. And so there's been this physical unraveling. I stepped into it thinking I had to be physically strong.

SPEAKER_02 26:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:29

And what actually ended up happening was this like softening into exactly where my body's at and that it's okay.

SPEAKER_03 26:38

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:38

Um, whereas I think before I had this like very right, like I had to just pretend that I was okay all the time and I was trying to push through a brain injury.

SPEAKER_02 26:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:48

And there's just been this like massive softening that's happened. And that was unexpected.

SPEAKER_04 26:54

Yeah. Yeah. That's one of the things I've uh really enjoyed about speaking with people about their experience because you know, these are insights that, you know, maybe I have an intuition about them or like I know, hey, something's going on there, but I don't actually know what is going on, right? So it's cool to explore these things with you. And when I think about it, it's also like because you brought in the idea of like people being uh part of the

Documentation Senses And Staying Grounded

SPEAKER_04 27:24

tool basket. I wanted to also ask you, because I've been asking other people, because in the beginning I thought having somebody coming to document, you know, with video as well as photography, that it would actually be intrusive, right? Especially when uh, because you know, you're getting a bodysuit. So a lot of a lot of the times you're basically naked, yeah, right, fully on clothed. So I was like, oh, like how is that gonna work? And you know, like all of those intricacies about uh having care and also protecting um, you know, uh whoever's there on on the table. And so, but I found it to be almost one of the foundational pieces of the practice.

SPEAKER_03 28:11

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 28:12

So I just want to ask you, what was that experience when you thought about being documented in the beginning? What was that thought of like, oh, I don't know, or you know, and then explore with me how it became part of the experience.

SPEAKER_01 28:28

I don't think I was afraid of it or shy. I've kind of always been in front of the camera. So I was like, yeah. Um, but I did not think about how impactful who was behind that camera would be. And I got to work with Billy Jean, I got to work with Chris, I got to work with Steven, and every single one of them brought something absolutely beautiful into that space that helped me. I think that uh the timing of each one was exactly what it was supposed to be. And the gifts that they brought into that room and into my healing process was exactly what I needed for that part of the journey.

SPEAKER_02 29:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:08

Uh, so that was completely unexpected, is the connection and the co-creation of that container that those beautiful humans brought into that space.

SPEAKER_04 29:17

Yeah, it's big time. You know, what I think about it as well is like each I love how you said that each of them brought something very unique and different. But for me, it also taught me important lessons that again gave me intuitions that were actually confirmed by my conversation with Danita. Yes. In terms of uh Danita was saying that uh she's been learning that it's actually our senses that help us to bring us through some of those trauma experiences. And so when I observe Billie Jean bringing you some aromatherapy, some smell, because uh Billie Jean could tell that you were going through it, it brought you back. Yep. So it was actually what I think the sense, the senses, the sense of smell actually brought you back. And then other people, I don't know who it was, but somebody brought you something for your hands.

SPEAKER_01 30:16

That's right.

SPEAKER_04 30:18

And then you know, you were whatever I can't even remember exactly like a crystal or yeah, yeah, yes. And then, you know, that brought you back because you were, you know, again, because a lot of times our trauma is stored in our bodies that we start to escape from that. Yeah, and so it's our senses and are actually our body that helps to bring us back. And so it was like so cool to see that, and also to be like, okay, what's going on there? And then, you know, like, hey, this is what I was experiencing, this is what I observed, and then and this is what I and I was starting to think, oh, I gotta bring this these intuitions into my practice, and then Janita's like, oh, well, there's like actually people who've done science about this stuff. And I'm like, what? Okay, now I know where I gotta look, right? To get that more information, but it also taught me like helped me to ask the question, how do I bring those support people into my own practice? Right, because I think that it was it would have it would have still been a powerful experience, but it would have been completely different without them.

SPEAKER_01 31:28

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_04 31:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:30

Um, and it makes me think of uh Natalia's just coming to mind of having the stretcher or right, like, and I know that we've talked about that. Um of having maybe it was conversations with Keith too about having like men supporting men who are receiving the markings, where there's like someone to hold, someone to like sing, or yeah, right, where it's like a fully uh a community practice that is helping to support this person move through. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 32:01

Yeah, and I just think when I think about um creating those safe and sacred spaces, it's also finding that balance of energies that are there as well. Um, so yeah, those are just some interesting things that I've been starting to think about in terms of like how do I bring that into my say even the shop work that I do. You know, uh having somebody along with me as I go places that can document, right? That can, you know, bring, you know, hey, you know, here's something for you just to hold, or hey, here's, you know, take this and hold it. And of course, it's a smell to help bring them back, or all of those things. So I'm thinking of like as I move forward and I think about say opening a shop, that's like, how do I bring these principles that I've learned into you know a tattoo space in a professional setting that creates something totally different than what we have in the everyday tattoo world.

SPEAKER_01 33:04

Set me loose in there. Let me do my thing.

SPEAKER_04 33:08

Yeah, totally.

SPEAKER_01 33:10

Um I had this practice that I created and I'm just I'm seeing it as you're speaking. And I I called it like a wellness basket.

SPEAKER_03 33:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:20

Um, so I've got like my tool baskets and those kinds of things, but this was very particular about the senses. Um and it was, I had just given birth to cedar and I was really struggling with postpartum depression.

SPEAKER_03 33:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:33

And so I created a physical basket, and I realized how much that basket meant to me, and I actually started dragging it all over the house. And so I would have things like candles and journal and crystals and um like just all the comfort things that would have like little snacks in there. And so I'm seeing like right, like a little wellness basket that can be a part of that supporting the senses for people's journeys. And there's so much out there that's possible when it comes to working with our senses. Yeah. Even like Billy Jean telling me or telling you to about a blanket and how much of a difference it made to bring a blanket. Yeah, I brought the softest, heaviest blanket that I own. It took up more than half my suitcase. Yeah. And well we're I brought it to every single session, and it was the most comforting thing that I could think of. Um, just to have that weight.

SPEAKER_02 34:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:32

It felt like being held through the process, right? There's so many things to work with in terms of our senses. And we also we work with our senses through anxiety as well, right? Because anxiety is very much that getting stuck in our head. Yeah, yeah. And we need to come back down to our body.

SPEAKER_04 34:49

Wow. Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah, I love how um I love how the community of practitioners, you know, there's so much knowledge among us that when we come together and we start to explore these things, that like um, you know, we start to build these things together. Where it's like, hey, here's the little piece that I have. This is what I've been thinking about. Like, this is the knowledge that I have, or this is the experience that I had. And then uh Danita's like, hey, we'll check this out. And then you're like, hey, this. And you know, he's like, hey, what about this? And so it's like such a powerful um opportunity. And I would also say, not only an opportunity, but like uh a demonstration or a model that other people can, you know, take in their own practices. Find those people to support you, find those people that you can trust, and find those people that you can bounce ideas off and start to have that support network. Yeah, you know, I think it's so powerful.

SPEAKER_01 35:59

It makes me think of um our ancestors who would travel and trade. Like we there are songs that were known by different communities because the songs would travel and be taught to other communities, especially um when there are communities who maybe lost all of their songs. And so there would be uh singers and storytellers who would travel and they would share their songs and say, Yeah, you know, you are welcome to bring these in and use them as your own songs as a part of the rebuilding your nation and your people and your storytelling.

SPEAKER_02 36:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:37

It reminds me of like the abundant sharing that our ancestors knew how to do, right? Of like, yeah, we have these things and we want to share them with you and teach you how, if you don't have these things, and we'll learn some things from you, and it all becomes this wave of transformation that gets passed down for generations.

SPEAKER_04 36:56

Yeah, big time, yeah, 100%. Yeah, I think of and it's also that sense of like I don't know, maybe because there has been so many years of affluence in the Western experience that um, but on the flip side, we have experienced such a uh sense of want or need, yeah, right, as a community, that we don't always take that opportunity to share. We really have that scarcity mentality of like hey, I'm gonna keep this, this is my little piece. But I think, you know, uh in that giving, you know, because the reality is that our ancestors had to give. They had to for survival, just because sometimes some people didn't get enough fish for those for the winter time. Yeah, they didn't get enough berries or roots or whatever they needed, and so you had the potlatch to distribute that wealth so everybody could uh survive into the next season. And so it's really taking some of those ancestral principles of like giving. It's like, hey, I do have an abundance of this, so I'm gonna share it. And then next year, maybe I don't have an abundance, but you do, and so we give so that we can all be lifted up together and so that we all go forward into the future together. And I think those are some of those principles that maybe we've forgotten that we have to gather all this stuff and then hoard it away, yeah, right. Um and just transform is like I think when you talk about it in terms of wellness, I think that is really what that lifting up is doing, is like creating a community of wellness. And the way that we do that is through generosity and caring, right?

SPEAKER_03 38:52

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_04 38:53

Um, there was another question with a scum.

SPEAKER_01 38:59

I'm trying to remember the first like the list of questions you had. Yeah, that was all good.

SPEAKER_03 39:04

Yeah, it's all good.

SPEAKER_04 39:05

No, I just wanted to explore a little bit that experience of like having people come in and documenting um what that experience was and what it added. Um and I think I don't think that it really just detracted anything. I think it was all additive. Yeah, yeah. Um when you think of uh this past year of living with the work, what are some of those insights that really come up for you?

A Year Later Dreams Shatter Open

SPEAKER_01 39:41

Um there is a complete shattering of the dreams and the life that I thought I wanted and I thought I was going to live. Um and the visual that's being brought to me right now is uh like when a caterpillar goes into its chrysalis phase and it's transformed into a butterfly, and it has to like break out of its cocoon. Um, I was telling everyone for a long time that I was going through my like cocoon phase. Transforming, I don't know what's on the other side, but there was just this like shattering of everything that I thought I was moving towards and um I thought I wanted. Um it was kind of scary in the middle of it. Yeah, uh, most of it's been in the last six months of just this like, no, this isn't it. This is not how this is not how I want to live. Um, and coming out the other side of that, being able to step through, which our entire process taught me of just pushing a little bit further past the threshold of what you think you're capable of. Um just taking one step after the other, not being able to see the big picture. Yeah. There was just like a lot of mud, um cosmic dust, whatever you want to call it. Uh but that process of leaning into ancestral guidance and really listening to them when they bring me things and they bring me like big scary steps, and I just take it instead of going, How am I gonna do that? What do you mean? What is this? Uh I've just taken this step.

SPEAKER_02 41:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:37

And they have brought me this whole other life that I I thought I was only dreaming about. I thought maybe I would get it in another lifetime. Maybe I would, maybe I was living in like an alternate universe in my head.

SPEAKER_02 41:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:52

They have brought me all of those things within six months to say, actually, that's what you're supposed to be living now. Wow. Um and it's it's becoming really surreal. Yeah. But it's like uh all of the things that it felt like it was riding a bike in sand to get certain projects done or to bring ideas into the world. They're just birthing. They're just like, okay, well, you've done all the work. Yeah. You've physically done the work, you've transformed, you've created a safe space for you to actually create the things. Uh, you are somewhat working towards like, you know, the well-being of your body and living in your body exactly as it is.

SPEAKER_03 42:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:30

Um, you're listening to your ancestors instead of fighting with us most of the time. Um and so all of those things, it was just a few weeks ago where they they brought me the message we've brought you a safe vehicle. We've brought you the specific visions and steps for just this next like season or whatever, right? Like you don't get the whole picture. You don't get the whole picture. We know the whole picture.

SPEAKER_03 43:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:01

Um and they showed me those wings, which we tattooed on me for a reason. They showed me those wings, and it was almost like this push, which uh I've had a vision of my great-great-grandmother pushing me off a cliff before of like, it's time to go. Yeah, it is time, you're ready. Yeah, we've done all the all of this work that needed to happen for you to transform into who you need to be to do the things we want you to do. Yeah, you're ready.

SPEAKER_02 43:31

Yeah. Go.

SPEAKER_04 43:33

Wow. Wow.

SPEAKER_01 43:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 43:36

Yeah, it's so crazy. And you know, when I think about that, actually, I um I really have to thank you because when we were in Outtown Rowland, we did that uh session in the gallery, and you really uh highlighted or like you looked at me and you said, you know, when you uh you know put those designs together, like that is the ancestors. Guiding you. Yeah. Right? Yeah. I was just like, oh, I never really thought about it that way.

SPEAKER_03 44:04

I was wow.

SPEAKER_04 44:06

You know, like so I do have to thank you and hold you up for that. You know, that was a real gift for me to I guess I knew it, but I didn't have it framed in that way.

SPEAKER_01 44:17

Yeah. Yeah. Like intuitively, like most of the other things.

SPEAKER_04 44:20

Yeah. Yeah. Totally. And so yeah, I just want to lift you up for sharing that and uh knowing that I needed to hear that.

SPEAKER_00 44:28

Thank you.

SPEAKER_04 44:29

Yeah. You know, uh, because it sounds like, you know, some of that is those gifts that you have that you know you are guided to. And so, yeah, thanks for uh helping me to see that and acknowledge it. Maybe sometimes I'm like, oh, I don't want to. I don't want to acknowledge that. Yeah. So I do have to thank thank you for that because you know, um, as you share your story in terms of some of that, like, oh, maybe not, yeah, I'm not gonna listen today. Um, yeah, no, I just had to um thank you and the ancestors for sharing that bit of knowledge with me. Thank you. Yeah, yeah. And I also like the the way that you articulate the uh how you say you're actually living in your body. Because you know, when I think about it, there's so much in our world today that we actually don't live in the body that we've been gifted. Yes, right? Like it is so much in here, it is so much in our head, and maybe not only the head, but in the emotions.

SPEAKER_01 45:45

Yeah, yeah, because we've been taught to numb everything out. And honestly, when I think about numbing out my body and the amount of pain that I'm in with living in it, I I understand, yeah, I fully understand the need to be like, cannot, yeah, cannot deal with this, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um and and um our bodies are directly connected to the earth, and the earth is also feeling this way right now. So if we are not tuning in to the ways that our bodies feel and addressing and working with the healing modalities that we can, then we will continue to harm the earth. And so my my whole um essence is healing people heals the planet, healing the planet heals the people. We're directly connected.

SPEAKER_02 46:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 46:39

Um, this practice of living in my body is a part of that, of living with the pain that the earth is in too. Wow. She knows how to uh in the same way that animals do that shaking, right? The earth knows how to just kind of like release and let go. She doesn't have a tantrum about it. She just naturally is like, oh well, there's a lot of energy. This is uncomfortable. I'm gonna do this natural disaster or that thing, right? Like she just has these, yeah, these natural bursts of releasing energy.

SPEAKER_02 47:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 47:08

Whereas we keep it. Wow. We just contain it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because we don't want to sit with it or listen to it.

SPEAKER_02 47:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 47:16

Uh so it's been a really interesting practice of coming back home to my body.

SPEAKER_04 47:22

Yeah, and I uh I've really been starting to think about the practice, and it's so cool how like um the way that you're articulating it, the way that you're starting to think about it, you know, we're having like these very parallel kind of ideas and thoughts in terms of the work, right? It's just so cool because I start I've been starting to think about positioning my work as like creating a personal healing transformation for individuals that help to make the world a better place.

SPEAKER_03 47:58

Yes, right?

SPEAKER_04 47:59

Like that's kind of the language that I've been starting to think about in terms of because of course a lot of times we think of it in such a big way that we have to change everything in the world. Yeah, but the reality is that if we make those shifts and those changes in ourselves, that that will actually shift and change our communities, shift and change our families, and then shift and change the way that we vibrate out into the rest of the world.

SPEAKER_01 48:26

Exactly. The ripples, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 48:27

And so it's like for me, it's like uh starting or encouraging or uh continuing a personal transformation journey for the individual, which then works towards a transformation for the rest of the world. So it's so cool how like the way that you are thinking about it is like so parallel to that. Yeah, yeah, I really I think it's like you know, we've uh we've been talking really about some of those uh what you know, what would you say, like those shifts. And so it's like those shifts are happening in each of us, in each of our minds, and each of our ideas, and each of our practices. And so it's cool to see those parallels because it helps us to realize that we are on the right track, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 49:14

Right?

SPEAKER_04 49:14

So it's like an echo of like back and forth, it's like, hey, and then it's like, oh, you're thinking that right?

SPEAKER_01 49:20

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's like shared language too that can support the continuation of the journey.

SPEAKER_04 49:27

Oh, yeah, it's so cool. It's like filling up that water bottle on both sides. Like everybody put some water in. So cool.

Monumental Portraits And Indigenous Power

SPEAKER_04 49:36

Um, I guess I want to uh start to move towards like when you think about the exhibition that we were at, right? And what was it like for you to walk in there and see the portrait of yourself, you know, seven foot tall in that exhibition?

SPEAKER_01 49:57

The timing of me walking in there, I happened to be right beside Tanasa, who took the photo. Wow. And I I full on like anti-raged in the moment. I think I was like, ah! And was just like a full puddle on the floor. Like it was just the whole space was just so stunningly beautiful. But to see, um I had entered into that photo shoot with Tunasa and was just straight up like I'm really struggling being in my body right now. I'm the heaviest I've ever been. Uh, that means that I'm having trouble like carrying the weight. I I'm trying to be comfy with it, yeah, but I'm struggling. Yeah. And Tunasa just walked me through this like really beautiful session to capture my bodysuit and really bring out the strength in me. And so seeing it like massive like that. I just it brought back that feeling of when I first got the cuffs done and I sat up and I just bawled because I I could see my ancestors coming through my skin. Um and I felt like Indigenous Wonder Woman. Like it just it was just like, rah, like this is this is my armor. Yeah. Um and then the other the really fun part for that, there was a bench that was right, it happened to be right by my image. And so I just kind of like melted onto the bench there and it was just like, holy, like this is wild to see this. Is to hear people. And they so many people were drawn to that image and hearing like the just the incredible feedback from it. Wow. Uh, and then there were a few people who turned over and they were like, oh my god, it's you. Tell me more. And so I got to actually like talk to people about some of the process and some of the things that had to come through. And that that part was really fun for me was to be able to just interact with people who were experiencing that for the first time.

SPEAKER_04 52:06

Yeah, I think you know, uh it it is such a powerful image, and it actually embodies the intention of what those were there for. And when I say that is because, like when I walk through the Louvre or the National Gallery in Europe and England and in France, the I was walking through and I'm seeing all these, they're beautiful paintings, you know, they're beautiful artworks, but they're all Caucasian European folks, and some of them are massive, right? And the thought that went through my mind as I walked out of the Louvre, because I did the National Gallery in London and then we did the Louvre, and when I walked out of the Louvre, I was like, where are monumental works that celebrate us? Yes, right, and so when I think about those portraits, that's what those are about is celebrating us as Indigenous people, creating monumental artworks that people can look at, look at and see Indigenous people represented, but not just represented, powerful.

SPEAKER_01 53:16

Yeah, yeah, that was like the number one word everyone said was powerful, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 53:21

And I think that pose too, right? Is just like uh those connections, yeah, but also uh embracing yourself as you are, yeah. You know, that's just is a powerful picture, but yeah, yeah, yeah. So it was a good joke again, you know. It's just like whoa, bang. Um, and I think you know, uh it it was you know on par, and or I would say like one of the most powerful pieces in there.

SPEAKER_03 53:52

Thank you.

SPEAKER_04 53:53

Yeah, it was awesome. Um yeah, it was uh it was a fun exhibition.

SPEAKER_01 53:59

Oh my goodness, the whole space. It was just uh and I was sharing that with you before we sat down, but I've had several friends who have gone in and they're like, I've never experienced something like that in my life. Like the the feeling that you get when you walk into that space is just such a like like being held in a basket or a cradle, right? Like there's just this feeling. Yeah, and then to witness indigenous people standing in their power like that, like we're just like well, and I think that's what those portraits actually I called them the guardians.

SPEAKER_04 54:33

Ooh, like each of those portraits is a guardian of the ancestral objects and of the yeah, you're so brilliant, yeah, but then it's also like uh guardians in the sense of like these are ours, but also in the sense of stewardship, yeah, right? Like we know that we have to be powerful, yeah, we know that we have to be firm, but we're also gonna be loving, yeah, right. And so it's like that is what those portraits are about. Each of you is a guardian of the legacy of the ancestors who left those images on those baskets, right? And so that's I love that people are experiencing it in that way, yeah, right, without actually knowing that that's what my intention was.

SPEAKER_03 55:29

Yeah, that's the whole point.

SPEAKER_04 55:31

Yeah, so yeah, that's also one of the things I wanted to do is like say those things without saying them. And part of that ancestors walls was like sharing just enough, but not sharing everything, you know, like part of that again is the stewardship of like, hey, some people will get everything, yeah, some people will get part of it, and some people will get nothing, yes, which is okay. All of those things are okay because we all enter into these things as a baby, yes, and we grow and we grow and we grow and we understand more and more. So I just love that you know, you share that people step in and they're just like, whoa, right? And not only that, but that sense of like, yes, it was actually intended as a basket. Okay, holding all of that stuff, holding each person, each community, each culture in that way of like then creating that basket, like you said. The other thing I have to mention too was like how cool it was to have so many practitioners.

unknown 56:34

Oh my god!

SPEAKER_04 56:36

I was like, I stepped up there to do my or as like uh the CEO was doing his thing, in the uh opening, I looked around and I'm just like, wow,

Roundup Reflections And The Second Wave

SPEAKER_04 56:50

like this is like probably one of the biggest gatherings of indigenous cultural tattoo practitioners, ancestral skin markers, or indigenous tattoo artists that have happened on Turtle Island in the international sense in terms of the variety of communities that were represented there. Yeah, I was just like, whoa! And I'm like, that's actually more powerful than anything I have to say. Yeah, so bringing everybody up and like everybody who gave me feedback on that uh shared how powerful it was to hear each person's voice and the little bits of language that they could share as they move through. I was just like, dang.

SPEAKER_01 57:33

What was my other melting moment? Yeah. Um I think I hadn't described it to you as like witnessing in a movie when you see all the ninjas come out of a crowd, that's exactly what it looked like to me. It was just like, oh, there's so many of us.

SPEAKER_04 57:52

It totally was that because it was like this people on the Yeah. Yeah, I was like, whoa.

SPEAKER_03 58:00

It was so cool, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 58:02

It was awesome. And uh, I'm glad we took up more than our allotted six minutes.

SPEAKER_03 58:09

As we said, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 58:12

But yeah, it was pretty cool to see all of those people there and the vibe and in the space. It was pretty exciting to uh have that all happen.

SPEAKER_01 58:21

And for you to I really appreciated the moment where you shared when I started out, there were three of us. Yeah, and then we took up an entire wall of the building. Yeah. And you're like, now this is like this is just a room, right? Of the people who are here.

SPEAKER_03 58:36

Big time.

SPEAKER_01 58:37

We really see that second wave and like how impactful all of the all of the work, all of the pieces, all of the teachings. Uh I always see it as like fragments, like puzzle pieces that are we're trying to figure out and mold into something new. Yeah, all of that is being witnessed in that second wave now.

SPEAKER_04 58:56

Oh yeah, it's just so uh so powerful. And it also uh in some ways helps me to like justify slowing down a little bit.

SPEAKER_03 59:07

Oh fuck yeah.

SPEAKER_04 59:09

Because so much of it has been like, ah, like what happens? Well, to be honest, what happens if I die? Yeah, like what happens just because I have a bad heart, so it's like what happens? That then gets slowed down for the next generation. Not that, you know, because there was enough of momentum, I think, that it would have continued, it just would have been slower. Yeah, and so I was like, what'll happen? Yeah, and so now I can be like, okay, you know, I can slow down and start to focus on other bits and pieces that uh are still important, but maybe not pushing as hard as I have in the book.

SPEAKER_01 59:44

Oh my goodness, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 59:45

So it's like it's actually exciting and it makes me happy because I know that it's going into the next generation.

SPEAKER_01 59:52

You've planted so many seedlings, like and they're growing.

SPEAKER_04 59:57

And it's so cool. For me, it's also so cool to see how like say uh someone like Robin, who was you know, has grown up here, you know, and the things that he's doing, like you know, and I said to him, like, some of those were my dreams, yeah, but I realized that those weren't dreams for me, they were actually dreams that I was supposed to pass on.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:18

Yeah, dreams for the people. I had a conversation with him about this concept because he's the same kind of visionary, right? Like that we are, where it's like we can start things and we have lots of ideas, but it's not always our job to carry the things through. Totally. And recognizing that gift is like yeah, it's a very different space to be able to land in, but it's so cool when someone does land in totally, and you're like, Yes, yeah, and I would say also like the differences, like the way that you carry it is also different.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:53

Yes, and the journeys that you have taken and the person that you are is like also some of those pieces that I've also dreamed about. Yeah, and so the way that you are able to take it and also touching people that either Robin or I couldn't, you know, reach just because of you know, that relationship just is different, just because of who we are. Nothing wrong with that. Yeah, it's just that the you know, we need more practitioners to reach as many people as we can.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:22

Exactly.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:22

And it's not about like hoarding stuff, it's about sharing it so each person who needs their mark can get their mark in the way that they need to get it.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:31

Yeah, I just talked to Jackie about this last night too, of like the intentionality around alignment with who we are tattooing, and that we're both stepping into this place of like, actually, I don't think I'm the practitioner for that, but I have this amazing friend, yeah, relative who really specializes in that. And I think that your energies would align.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:52

Right? Where there's just this like trusting that we will tattoo the people we are meant to, and uh that if it doesn't actually line up for us, that it's okay. We don't have to do everything. Totally.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:06

Yeah, 100%. And it's yeah, and I'm thinking, you know, uh my new dream is actually to have uh our nation to have the most practitioners out of everything.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:20

We can do that, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:21

We'll bring them all down to the you know, I just think about that, and it's just like that's the way it really should be, I think. Uh for me and my perspective, is like um then yeah, then we just go out into the world, you know, taking uh intakamuk and interior salish medicine to to the world, yeah. You know, that's that's my next dream.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:45

Which we don't see much of a voice of, right? Which like that was part of this whole journey for me. We everyone knows coastalish art and everyone knows, you know, there's like different styles of art that we're all very familiar with. But uh, if I were to ever say in took up my art, yeah, they'll be like who is that?

SPEAKER_03 1:03:07

What is that?

SPEAKER_01 1:03:12

Yeah, so to give it its own voice and life and just see how it travels out into the world. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:19

Big time. Um, you know, uh shifting just a little again, because of course, like all of these things are all interrelated. Um the we're here at the Intacope Blackbird Roundup. And it was actually pretty cool uh yesterday. Two points, you know, highlights of yesterday was our gathering to you know discuss the potential for an exhibition was like really cool.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:46

But also uh the observation that Steven made as we were all sitting around the hot tub, and he was just like, you know, wow, like seeing everyone's marks as we're just sitting there enjoying our time, relaxing, was like just it's powerful. Yeah, you know, yeah, just to take up that in a regular setting. Yeah, yeah, it was so cool. So those are kind of two highlights yesterday for me is the conversation around like an exhibition and people contributing, especially those people that maybe don't consider this themselves artists or creative, as like to try and ask what is going to be your contribution? Let's imagine it together, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:04:28

I loved that conversation.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:30

So, yeah, those are two things. And so when you think about the roundup itself, you know, maybe share a few little thoughts on that.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:37

I was so excited to see like be in a room with everyone. So myself and Steven, Billy Jean, and Tunasa are generally like in similar circles, and so we've had that, and even um Chris and Wes all see them regularly, like through the summer or something. And there's just this like family feeling that we've had in our interactions, knowing that we're on similar journeys, knowing that we're transforming together. Yeah. Um, so I was like goosebumpy to be in a whole room with everybody who's been a part of this project. Um, which is why when we sat down to introduce ourselves, like, can we talk about what we received? Like, I've seen like pictures and I kind of know who's who, but oh man, to just like have all of us in a room together was so beautiful.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:26

Yeah, it was awesome. And yeah, just everybody's willingness to just share and contribute and put out there despite the nervousness, despite the all of that, you know, shyness, all that. It was just so cool to uh yeah, have that room full.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:44

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:44

And yeah, it was beautiful.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:46

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:47

Um, you know, as we start to wind down, is there any things that you'd like to explore or talk about, or um little things that maybe threads that we started that we didn't really?

SPEAKER_00 1:06:01

I don't really know. There's nothing that's like emerging right now. It feels pretty full.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:07

Yeah, I think it's been a really good conversation. We've explored a lot. And uh I've enjoyed exploring some of these things because, of course, like I said, some of those are those intuitions that I've had. And I think getting your take on it and hearing the way that you articulate it and explore it has been uh an I've enjoyed it. You know, it's been a joyful experience to uh explore some of those things uh from your perspective as someone receiving it, but not only as someone receiving it, but as a practitioner. Yes, right. So there's like two really unique perspectives that are could you that you hold that uh can give a lot of value. So I appreciate that.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:49

Thank you.

The Lights Spreading And Closing Words

SPEAKER_04 1:06:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:50

There's one image, uh, it's been nudging me. I can feel them. They're like, just share this uh throughout our conversation. So I'll share it with you.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:02

Um my great-great-grandmother, who usually her name's Shalenak, uh, she's usually the one who will come down and visit me and like pull me out of my shit. Yeah, um, brought me up like atmosphere cloud level one day and showed me these little lights that were starting to light up around the world. And I'm really seeing the work that you're doing as a part of those lights. So as we're talking about the next wave of practitioners, the next wave of healing, the next wave of like teachings and community, that those lights are like when I look at the image now, they're very, very bright. And they're starting to light up other lights around them. Uh, so we're in that space of like the the transformations that we've been looking for in terms of the collective.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:56

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:57

So thank you for your work that you've been doing.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:00

Yeah, I appreciate you sharing that. And again, it uh what would you say? It allows me to recognize and realize that opportunity to take a breath. Right. Yes, yeah, because that's I think probably what that message really is about for me. It's like, hey, you've done a lot, you've done the work. It's okay to slow down and let others take that. And yeah, so I appreciate that because sometimes that is difficult for me to do.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:32

Especially when there's so many ideas. Yeah, there's so much happening, so much to be done.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:37

Um, but no, I appreciate that, and I appreciate the message that it delivers as well. So thank you for sharing that. And I appreciate you, and thank you for coming on the Transformative Marks podcast again. Um, my first repeat guest. Yeah. So uh yeah, like I always say, thanks for visiting with me on the Transformative Marks podcast, and I look forward to another update. Awesome. Hey everyone, thanks for stopping by and taking this journey with me uh through this episode. I hope you enjoyed it. I'll just ask that you would go and subscribe uh if you haven't already done so. And if you have subscribed, thank you very much. I appreciate you uh following this journey. I just want you to remember that uh no matter who you are, where you're from, what you've done, or what you've been through, that uh you are amazing, that you were loved, and that we need you here today and uh going into the future so that we can transform this world for the better uh through our collective thoughts, actions, feelings, and our compassion for each other as human beings. Remember, every coffee helps me to bring you the content that you love. So head over to my Ko Fi page and let's make something great together. And the last thing that I will ask you is to do me a solid and share this episode with somebody that you think will enjoy it.