SisterVibes
A podcast hosted by three sisters with a lifetime of stories and insights to share. From growing up in Japan to now living across three continents, we've gone through life's twists and turns. Join us as we dive into our cherished childhood memories, offer our unique perspectives on a wide range of topics, and recount our humble experiences living in different parts of the world. Despite long distances and scheduling conflicts that have kept us physically apart for years, we're here to give you a glimpse of what it's like to have sisters, regardless of the miles that separate us. Are we still the same as we used to be, or have we grown and changed along the way living in diverse locations? Stay tuned; we hope you’ll be entertained!
SisterVibes
18. Pregnancy to Birth: A Cross-Cultural Journey
In this episode, we share our unique pregnancy and childbirth experiences, highlighting cultural differences in maternal care. From Japan’s focus on natural birth to the U.S.'s medical approach, our stories reveal how environment and culture shape the birthing process. Join us as we explore the surprising and fascinating ways global practices impact the journey from pregnancy to birth.
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Website: https://www.buzzsprout.com/2279605
Big shoutout to Allison Gray for generously granting us permission to feature her song, "Off My Mind" (from Ep 05).
I gotta get you out of my system. I gotta get you off of my mind. But how do I move on when no one compares? They only keep me occupied. I gotta break these chains that bind me. I try to shake them off so desperately, but you pull them tighter, string me along. It's sad, but I'm so gone.
Speaker 2:Hi guys, today I thought we could talk about Sumi's pregnancy a little bit what it's like being pregnant woman in Japan, because Tomomi and myself we went through our pregnancy in the US and I feel like there are some things that are different. By just hearing some things that we just heard and also, you know, her pregnancy is a little bit later, I guess, than when Tomomi and I had our babies I thought there were some things that we can discuss. Yeah, that said. Sumia, where are you with your pregnancy?
Speaker 3:I am currently 25 weeks pregnant. In Japan that's considered to be seven months pregnant, which is, I know it's different from how they count it in the US.
Speaker 2:I don't know about Germany, so that would be six months, I guess, yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, six months in the US system, but seven months in Japan.
Speaker 2:I wonder why it's different.
Speaker 3:I don't know. The weeks is the same.
Speaker 2:By looking it up. It said that in Japan, you count the pregnancy from the last day of your period, whereas in the Western countries it starts when the baby was conceived, which I think it makes sense more, and that's why it's different. So then, what is full term?
Speaker 3:Full term is 10 months, 10 days Wow.
Speaker 2:I wonder if that's how it was taught in Japan too, obviously in health class and stuff, Probably. I'm just wondering because I just clearly remember getting the message that pregnancy is nine months long it's like if you're making bread, it's like you're.
Speaker 4:They count when the yeast is activating. You know, um, before you add it to the flour, and even kneading and watching it rise. Before even all that, they count when they add the yeast to the mixture and watch it activate. Yeah, I guess. So I was just thinking bun in the oven. Yeah, you know like she's making that bun in her oven right now.
Speaker 3:Yeah, the counting system is confusing.
Speaker 2:But I'm sure you weren't confused though, because that's how it is.
Speaker 3:I was confused. I'm still confused, but if you go by weeks, because that's how it is, I was confused, I'm still confused.
Speaker 4:But if you go by weeks, it's fine. Yeah, no confusion there. Yeah, well, I noticed when I went to Nihon, like last time and you know the last couple of times I think that in Japan they have elevators specifically for expectant moms. Or was it pregnant, or just had a baby?
Speaker 3:pregnant, if you have a baby, if you're handicapped, if you're an elderly, they have um dedicated elevators, yeah a separate elevator what's the?
Speaker 2:difference. Oh, you mean like prioritize that so you don't have to wait?
Speaker 3:yeah, if it's busy, probably yeah they also have it's kind of like the prioritized seats in the trains oh right, or the buses, or whatever, yeah interesting.
Speaker 2:Are there any other things like services that are?
Speaker 3:provided. Well, one thing I know is that at costco in japan, if you're pregnant, you can go an hour before it opens to the public, which is nice.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's nice. That is nice. Yeah, you want to tell a story about what we tried to do. Potentially, we talked about when we try going to Costco when we were in Japan.
Speaker 3:What, what? I'll pretend that she's pregnant, yeah because I did.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, I said it. She suggested it because the time we were thinking about going was when we thought everyone will be there, because it's right before New Year's. Oh, you know, it will be bombarded like people will be shopping for New Year's, because first, second and third Usually all the grocery stores are closed in Japan.
Speaker 4:So I mean, it was really, really, really crowded, but no, I didn't, I didn't, I didn't know that that was discussed. I probably would have executed that plan no, we talked about it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, oh, I I remember. I mentioned it because I couldn't go, because I was still feeling nauseous, yeah, and I was like, maybe tomomi can pretend like she's pregnant so that you guys can go an hour.
Speaker 2:I don't remember, you guys suggesting this to me and then we didn't go for it because we thought that they might ask for some so in Japan they have this thing called Boshi Kenko Techo, which literal translation is like maternal and child health handbook.
Speaker 3:This is what you get at your local city hall once you confirm your pregnancy, and what this handbook does is it records you and your baby's health, like, for example, like how much you weigh, how much the baby weighs, how big your stomach is, getting your blood test results, urine test results, everything. So I thought that maybe they will ask for that so that's?
Speaker 3:is that like used in public places at all like a pass, or no, no, no I feel like it's only used when you have your appointment to keep recording in it to keep recording and oh yeah, and one thing I want to mention is they also give you these coupons when they give you this handbook. There are 16 coupons in there and this depends on where you live, but in my case, I was able to use that coupon for my first appointment and it was worth about uh, I don't know the current rate, but roughly about 160 dollars, uh-huh, so I didn't have to pay the full price, like discounted.
Speaker 4:Yeah, oh, okay.
Speaker 3:Then from my second and third appointment, it was like roughly around 50 USD. And then my fourth. Fifth is like around 30 USD, I don't know Nice.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I mean, I guess we don't have a coupon system, but I feel like something like that, like promotions and things in bulk I always see, you know, not necessarily just for pregnant people, but like your first visit to our hospital or whatever you know a doctor's office, you could get this kind of discount. I see stuff like that all the time.
Speaker 2:But Don't you also have some kind of pickup service or something?
Speaker 4:Taxi.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, taxi that is dedicated to pregnant women. This is when you're about to give birth. Yeah, oh yeah, you have to register beforehand. You have to register your name and when you're due, where your hospital is, everything like that, and let's say that you're home alone and your water breaks and you will call this place and they will come pick you up and you don't even have to say your name, you don't have to give them any information, they'll just take you straight to the hospital.
Speaker 4:Yeah, wow, that you're registered at.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so is this through regular cab companies or is it like is there like a dedicated company that does this?
Speaker 3:I think it's regular taxi companies, but there are dedicated specific dedicated. Yeah, okay, and they will prioritize you. I need to register for that.
Speaker 2:Haven't done that yet I wonder if they have some kind of sign up, if you know they're driving, because you know in japan, I think they put sos too right, like the cab drivers. Like, if there's some sketchy things going on in the cab, then you can like signal SOS to the public. So then, in hopes that they, get help for the driver.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I've heard about that. I wonder if there's something like that.
Speaker 4:This pregnant woman is attacking me, choking me, telling me to hurry yeah.
Speaker 3:Another thing I want to mention is the most common way to give birth in japan is through natural birth right, and this is pretty shocking, but only 8.6 percent of pregnant women in japan give birth using epidural. That's insane.
Speaker 4:Only 8%.
Speaker 3:Yeah, less than 10%. That is crazy.
Speaker 2:That's one of the reasons why I chose to do it. Naturally, because I thought okay, no, thank you. I thought I cannot break this. Every woman in the past of our ancestors have given birth. Yeah, naturally I was like there's no way I'm going to break. That is what I was thinking.
Speaker 3:And honestly.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's one of the reasons why I was like I'm not. That was the reason. One of the reasons, yeah.
Speaker 4:For me. I think, um, I felt like, well, if pregnant women are not allowed to take drugs, um, during their pregnancy, or, you know, when they're breastfeeding and you know over every little thing, I thought, why would I want to do that when I'm giving birth too, cause I'm still technically pregnant. You can still pass it on to the baby. That was my reason. I didn't care what my ancestors did.
Speaker 2:So, anyway, that was one of the reasons. I guess then I will be the first yeah, you'll be the first to break that uncommon. But it was kind of a big deal, like everybody kind of around me gave me advice, you know, advice from people who actually ended up getting epidural thinking they're going to do natural birth.
Speaker 4:Yeah, so what is there anything that stands out in Germany? Pregnant women that are German? I, I know that you weren't pregnant in Germany, but do you have anything that's?
Speaker 2:so I think it's similar to New Holland. They have midwives here instead of you know anything that's. So I think it's similar to nihon they have midwives here instead of you know, like a gynecologist. Um, I believe, but I don't know much in detail I had a gynecologist and a midwife.
Speaker 4:Midwife helped deliver.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because you did home birth, yeah, but for me, when I had our son, yeah, I went to the hospital. I had a doula who was a birthing coach, because I knew that I needed somebody that I can rely on, which Christophe wasn't going to in the room, but I thought I needed support from somebody who's experienced. So she was basically a coach that helped me through the whole laboring experience. Yeah, so I didn't have a midwife I had. My gynecologist was not available, so I had a different doctor that came who was on call to deliver. But I did it at the hospital. No midwife, I had a doula.
Speaker 2:We wrote a birth plan, basically what my wishes were. I didn't want any IV or anything beforehand, nothing, no medication. And then we came up with a password. That was sort of sacred, I guess, just in case I decided that I changed my mind at some point. She had said that a lot of women they don't really mean when they say, oh, I want the epidural. She said that people just say it because they're in so much pain, but they don't really mean it. So you came up with a code.
Speaker 4:Oh, I want the epidural. She said that people just say it because they're in so much pain, but they don't really mean it. So you came up with a code like if I say pancakes, then give me the epidural.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so you might say these things. So let's think of a word that you're going to say. I said reindeer, I don't know why, I'm not sure, because he's March baby. It wasn't like even Christmas, but that was my password, which I never used, just so that there are a lot of things that you can say when you're in pain. And so let's just come up with a word.
Speaker 4:It really wasn't that bad for me Home birth, yeah, at the hospital, because there was so much chaos going on, I felt like I needed to freak out with everybody. You know they weren't freaking out, but it seemed like they were right Because it was so much going on including your husband, right, yeah, he left me and fainted.
Speaker 4:But yeah, so like, so much like in and out you know people coming in and out so that I think contributed to maybe my stress. But home birth was so much calmer and easier and to me I didn't experience hardly any pain and Emiko was bigger but um, you did a water birth to water birth, which I loved it was so calming and they brought music, they dimmed the lights, they had like flameless candles and it was so relaxing, yeah, and so I think it.
Speaker 4:For me, the environment made a huge difference. Yeah, yeah, it wasn't even. It wasn't, it wasn't painful at all. I really highly recommend people do water birth. Water birth is amazing.
Speaker 2:I really wanted to do it and I had asked the facility or my gynecologist because you know she has certain hospitals that she travels to and she said that she doesn't do it and I thought, okay, that's okay. I've heard that that was the best way to do it. It was very calming Because the baby is basically still in the water, so that's a good transition for the baby too, coming out into the water.
Speaker 3:I don't even know if they do that in Japan.
Speaker 4:Yeah, they do, I'm sure they do.
Speaker 3:I've only heard like celebrities doing it, but not like I'm sure they do in birthing centers.
Speaker 2:Yeah, mine was also. It wasn't bad because, again, I sat with my doula and you know we wrote out the birth plan, what my wishes were, what I did want, what I didn't want. I didn't have any music on or anything and I was really thankful to have her there because I realized she would put like these, like cold towels sometimes on my shoulders and such, and you know I wasn't even asking for it. She knew what I needed at the time when I didn't know what I needed, I guess. So that was really nice. She also talked to the staff that kept coming in to check on me that I was doing natural birth and that no epidural needed, and all that kind of conversation that she was having with them was nice, because I didn't want to have that conversation.
Speaker 3:So it looks like Japan also does have water birds, but it's very limited the places that they can provide that I think it's the same in the US.
Speaker 4:I don't think it's a common thing.
Speaker 2:I bet it's more common.
Speaker 4:I know some hospitals do that too, but I think a lot of people that end up having water births. This is my guess. Maybe I'm wrong, but they usually do homework.
Speaker 1:They get their own pool and then fill it up birthing pool yeah birthing pool, and then do it at home.
Speaker 2:One funny thing that I remember still is um, I gave birth in 2010 and I don't think it was rare, but it wasn't common enough. Perhaps that at at some point I don't even remember who asked if the residents can come and watch me give birth and I said yes, and at the time I was completely like naked right, like I had nothing on. It was just like bare it all to the public and I'm thinking, okay, it'll be probably like a couple residents.
Speaker 2:No it was like 10, 10 residents, just like right in the front, of course, and then the on-call gynecologist that I had. I was like oh my God, that's so many people watching me naked. But then at that point I'm like you know what, I don't care. I mean, everybody has seen it already, yeah. So that was kind of funny. I mean just like, oh my god, there's so many people here. But you know, at that time I was like whatever, what can I say, you know?
Speaker 4:yeah.
Speaker 2:So, sumi, you said that also because it's only less than 10% of the people that do receive epidural, and obviously it's their choice to do it Not all the hospitals can do this.
Speaker 3:No, most hospitals can't do this in Japan.
Speaker 2:Most birthing centers.
Speaker 3:Especially if you live in the countryside. It's rare to find, I think, hospitals that give epidurals. One reason is because I've heard that Japan is a little bit behind in this field and there aren't many anesthesiologists that have license to give epidural.
Speaker 4:Yeah, but honestly I think Japan also does a lot of holistic approach anyway, you know. So I don't know that they want to push for that anyway. I mean, japan is so known for like holistic medicine and all that stuff, all natural medicine, you know. So I don't know if they care to like speed it up at all yeah, they probably don't like well, mostly the older generation.
Speaker 3:They believe that natural birth is the right way to give birth. Like you have to feel that pain in order to become a mother, type of thing so do you know anyone who's done it to me?
Speaker 2:then what?
Speaker 3:epidural yeah, like your friends or actually none of my friends have they've all given through a natural birth. If it's only like less than 10 percent, I'm sure. Yeah, I decided my hospital based on that, based on whether they'd give epidural or not yeah, because I have very low pain tolerance levels, yeah.
Speaker 4:Well, do what you want to do. I think it's fine. Yeah, Like all my friends did epidural right and they told me that a lot of times. Like you can't feel yourself pushing, so you end up pushing a lot longer.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, yeah, I've also heard that. The reason why I don't know if this is true, but people in the US when, after they give birth or they go back to work, like pretty quickly.
Speaker 4:If you have C-section, you have to stay in the hospital for I don't know how long. Is it like five?
Speaker 2:days.
Speaker 4:I want to say three to five.
Speaker 3:Then you know if you're. If you give natural birth, you can just walk out the next day. Yeah, and I heard that the reason for that is because most people in the us use epidural. I guess you have a lot of energy left in you and so you can go home earlier. That's what I heard. So in japan they require you. Well, it depends on which hospital you go to. In my case, I will have to stay four nights, five days, at the hospital after giving birth. Four nights, five days, okay To recover.
Speaker 2:I stayed three days.
Speaker 4:What yeah?
Speaker 2:And it was my choice. I could have left earlier. I've heard from other mothers that you know this is the only time that you get help at the very beginning, especially if you don't have families around. So let the hospital take care of the baby. And so I took that advice and I said okay, I'll stay for three days. And besides, we didn't have Lucas's name solidified anyway. Like without a name, he can't leave the hospital either. So we're like we can't.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I didn't know that.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I left the next day, but I remember being so glad I stayed that night and had the nurse there, because I remember well. First of all, you know it's so hard to tell if the baby's breathing because they're so still and their nostrils are so small and you can't even feel them breathing really. So I remember I kept like staring at her like is she breathing, Is she breathing? And I remember I kept like staring at her like is she breathing, is she breathing? And I remember like putting my finger under her nose and I'm like is she breathing? But anyway, at one point it looked like she was choking and I didn't know what was happening. So I called the nurse and the nurse came and she held her upside down and something came out of her and it was like amniotic fluid. But I wouldn't have known. Oh geez.
Speaker 2:You know Well, you suspected something, so yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4:But I remember thinking, oh, my goodness, I'm so glad I had someone here. I wouldn't have known, yeah, what was going on. But then I was so ready to go home after.
Speaker 2:But at the same time, like it was like, like so scary to put a baby, a newborn baby, in a car seat and oh yeah, car.
Speaker 4:In the us you can go to a place where they can check to make sure that you're installing the car seat correctly and I just remember, like I remember after giving birth, like thinking because we had a scare at the hospital where a suspicious package was delivered at the hospital that I was at after I gave birth. So I was watching this, the TV of the hospital that I was staying at, and there was helicopters hovering and I'm like oh my gosh. And they were saying you know, nobody can leave or enter right now.
Speaker 4:Right, it was like a oh my gosh, that's so scary Temporary lockdown and I remember, cause I was watching the news on TV of the hospital I was at and I was like, oh my gosh, anyway. So I remember feeling, for the first time ever, fearing for her life, like someone else's life, and I just remember thinking I didn't care about my life. At that point I was like oh my gosh her, you know, oh my gosh her life. And I just remember that very clearly, thinking, wow, this is what it feels like to care about someone else's life more than yours.
Speaker 4:I just remember that, thinking, oh my gosh, we need to keep her safe, you know, and it was like nothing, it was just a hoax. So in the US, I guess, when you're expecting, one thing I can think of is parking space. You can park closer. Expect a mom parking spaces. What else is there? I think? Train seats, maybe Buses Not that I know, I mean, I don't really take public transportation in my area, but I think so.
Speaker 2:So that's all I can really think of, you know I was just thinking how small japanese people are when they're pregnant, like you can barely see that they're pregnant and they're very like, close to even like giving birth. There must be I mean japanese people in general when I do go back and visit realize how small everyone is um and the babies are small yes, and babies are small simi, you were told, uh, for your weight you should gain only 22 pounds which, which is 10 kilograms.
Speaker 4:That is so crazy and she's trending higher than that. So you're told like you can even skip dinner if you have nutritious first two meals of the day. Like that's so crazy.
Speaker 2:Do you think that has something to do with your health? Like, are they concerned about your health and the baby's health?
Speaker 3:No, the reason they are so strict is because of the risk of you getting diabetic, and that will cause risks to your baby, didn't you have?
Speaker 2:something tomorrow, didn't you know like poke your fingers is this a subway thing?
Speaker 4:no, well, okay. So you know, in the us they also check to see if you're diabetic, right, and they make you drink this sugary drink and then take your blood and see how your blood responds, to see if you're diabetic. Well, that sugary drink, I couldn't keep it down. It was so sweet.
Speaker 4:I threw up and I remember the. They were like okay, well, do you want to do make an appointment again or do you want to just assume you're diabetic? I was like I know I'm not diabetic, I know that you know, when you're pregnant things can change, you know, and you could become diabetic. But I know I'm not and I'm. This stuff is just really sweet. And I was like I just don't like like such sweet thing and but I don't want to go on a diet either. So let me try this again.
Speaker 4:I made another appointment and I went and I remember I picked like lemon flavor. They had different flavors. I thought maybe this is refreshing. So then I did that one and still I felt it coming up. It was so sweet. I can still like taste it If I think about it. It was so disgusting and I just chugged it, though. And then you know you had to wait in the waiting room for a while for it to like sit in your stomach and stuff, and I was like, oh my gosh, it's coming up, it's coming up. And I remember the second time I took Matt so he could distract me and I was like Matt, it's coming up, it's coming up. And he's like, no, stop, like keep talking to me and I kept talking to him but I was like I and it came out. I threw the test. We need to assume you're diabetic and we got to put you on a diet plan and I had to prick my finger four times every day, had to be on this super strict diet and I was so hungry.
Speaker 4:I remember I was so hungry and then one day I just decided I don't even care, I ate a foot long because I was so hungry and my number shot up and I remember the nutritionist was like what did you have this day? And I was like a foot long and she's like why? I was like because I was hungry. I'm suffering, my baby's suffering.
Speaker 2:My baby was hungry too, it's just crazy that when you're actually pregnant and your body's doing all the work, that you're restricted from eating certain things or like the amount. I guess it makes sense, but still.
Speaker 4:They said well, since you're diabetic and I'm like no, no, no, no, no, I could not complete the test, so don't title me as diabetic.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I just my, my diabetic test is coming up pretty soon. What do you? What do you do I?
Speaker 1:have to drink that sweet thing.
Speaker 3:Oh, you do have to drink.
Speaker 4:Same thing, yeah, okay. So when I did home birth the second time, I told them I was like, do I have to drink this sweet stuff? They said no, no, no, no. I think that's so disgusting and gross, but we're going to give you the right amount that you have to measure of like breakfast. So they were like this is so much better. And of course I did that fine and I was not diabetic and that was fine. That was an option for me. So you guys do have that drink too, mm-hmm.
Speaker 3:And in Japan, one out of eight pregnant women become diabetic during the pandemic. Yeah, I mean, I know you can.
Speaker 4:Okay, I know you can you know become diabetic when you're pregnant. But for me it was just a sweet drink I've always had, you know I don't like. You know, yeah, I remember I've thrown up over like chocolate and stuff that was like too sweet and rich. So that's just that, was just my body saying oh any other tests that's coming up?
Speaker 3:um, I don't know I think that's about it. So I want to know how much it costs for you guys to give childbirth in the us, if you remember yes, I have a paper here.
Speaker 2:I have a piece of paper that basically was given to me in October 6, 2009, which I have not even given birth, so this must be just an estimate. It says $2,500.
Speaker 4:I think that's about right. I feel like mine was about $2, three, you know in between?
Speaker 2:Yeah, based on contacting the insurance company. That's what it says here.
Speaker 3:That's how much you paid, like you actually paid that.
Speaker 2:It says that, but maybe because this was given to me before I even went into the labor, because I gave birth in March 2010. This was given to me by October 2009. Remember, this is only an estimate, which include our charges for the following services office visits, delivery and postpartum visit. Vaginal birth is $3,175. C-section would be $3,560. And obviously, because C-section you're having surgery, it's a little bit more. I'm assuming the following services are not included in the charges noted above. They must be paid in full within 30 days of receiving your statement Ultrasound $350. Non-stress test $240. And then some lab tests. So I'm assuming I paid a little bit more than $2,500.
Speaker 4:When I look it up online it says like average with insurance, if you have insurance, average is $2,050. Now, $2,050.
Speaker 1:You mean $2,050?, $2,850.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so that's, out of pocket.50. Yeah, yeah, yeah okay, okay, that's the average and this was 15 years ago, so, and of course, c-section is more.
Speaker 4:Oh, it says average cost for home birth, including prenatal delivery and postpartum care, is around 46,650. I don't remember it being that much, but I don't. I remember it being like not you know any different, but I could be wrong Not that much different from hospital birth.
Speaker 2:I guess in a way it makes sense because you're getting full attention by one qualified professional. Because I mean, when I gave birth, obviously the on-call gynecologist only came to visit me like a few times. She was out. Most of the time she wasn't there. The entire time is what I'm trying to say. She was in and out.
Speaker 4:So so to me. How much is it in Japan?
Speaker 3:Japan, the average is roughly from $4,000 to $6,000 USD, and an extra $1,500 to $2,000 if you want to do the epidural. But once you give birth, you can apply for this thing which is called, which is like one-time allowance for childbirth and childcare, and they will give you 5,000, roughly 5,000 USD.
Speaker 4:So you can use that, yeah, like kind of like a refunded to you.
Speaker 3:Not really refund, but they just give it to you and you can use that towards what Towards your childbirth payment. Okay. So it's kind of like which includes, like the hospital stay and everything. So the actual amount that you actually have to pay is like oh, it depends on which hospital you go to, but it's like some people get money back like it becomes a plus yeah, and some people only have to pay, like I think the average is like around 400 usd wow at the end you'll pay more.
Speaker 2:I mean, this is for natural birth.
Speaker 3:Yeah right, I'll pay more because you're doing, I mean this is for natural birth. Yeah Right, I'll pay more because, yeah, interesting, I've always thought that Japan was like really expensive to give childbirth, but apparently.
Speaker 2:I guess it's not that bad. Yeah, and this paper that I'm looking at is obviously 15 years ago, so I'm sure the price is different now. But from what Tomomi said, yeah, maybe it's $2,800, right?
Speaker 4:$2,850 is the average, with insurance, I guess. Thanks for joining us today. Don't forget to review Sister Vibes and make sure to subscribe on the app of your choice, so you don't miss our upcoming episodes. Until next time.
Speaker 1:Ja ne Bye, cause I've been waiting for so long For someone to rescue me and if you continue to hold my heart,
