Boston Found
Founded four centuries ago, Boston has simply never settled. Conversations here determine the future, so let’s discover what’s next! Join us as we seek out the real Boston, past and present, through stories and perspectives that capture a city always in motion. Hosted by Martha Sheridan, CEO of Meet Boston, this is the Boston Found podcast.
https://www.meetboston.com/podcast/
Boston Found
From Hidden Gems to Well-Known Treasures
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
Black history in Boston can be found wherever one chooses to look. From AI Frederick Douglass to Black Voices of the Revolution, the Museum of African American History is unearthing new narratives.
https://www.maah.org/
Welcome To Boston Found
SPEAKER_00Founded four centuries ago, Boston has simply never settled. Conversations here determine the future, so let's discover what's next. Join us as we seek out the real Boston, past and present, through stories and perspectives that capture a city always in motion. I'm Martha Sheridan, CEO of Meet Boston, and this is Boston Found.
Meet Dr. Noelle Trent
SPEAKER_00Today I am delighted to welcome my friend Dr. Noelle Trent, President and CEO of the Museum of African American History. Welcome, Dr. Trent. Oh, thank you for having me. We're so excited to have you. And for the listeners, you and I made a trip over to London recently and had some good times talking about our city. And um I really appreciate you joining us. And you were really the you were the hit of the trip, quite honestly.
SPEAKER_01I I tried to just help you sell Boston and and talk about just the wonderful history that people don't know about the city. And and hopefully that attracts people to come and visit us.
SPEAKER_00It sure does. Thank you so much. We appreciate your support. Tell our listeners a little bit about yourself and and your journey to get to where you are right now.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, well, interestingly enough, I was actually born in Boston, so my origins points are here.
SPEAKER_00Uh a unicorn, you might say.
SPEAKER_01Very much so. I was born when my parents were in graduate school here and then moved away and grew up in um Pennsylvania, a suburb outside of Philadelphia and the Washington, D.C. area. And I attended Howard University for both undergrad and graduate work. And while I was there, I got exposed to the field of public history, which is how people understand history, both from like museums to how we preserve it. And so had a number of internship experiences, which I think internships are always great. They help you decide what you really want to do and what you absolutely don't. And I think everybody needs to
Path Into Public History
SPEAKER_01do that. And was fortunate to do some interning at the Smithsonian and some other places, and it got me really interested in museum work, right? That that's the exhibitions, the conversations, the programming, and also worked as a park ranger for a while. So I did wear the green and gray uniform.
SPEAKER_00Well, your worlds have collided up here, haven't you? Yeah, you get into that. Yeah, yeah. So many different pieces.
SPEAKER_01There there are photos, I'm sure, online of me somewhere in the in the full uniform. Um, I was in the Frederick Douglass National Historic Site.
SPEAKER_00Oh, I love that.
SPEAKER_01And ended up writing my dissertation on Douglas. And then after that, I found myself in Memphis, Tennessee, where I worked at the National Civil Rights Museum at the Historic Lorraine Motel. So that for people who don't know, is the motel where Dr. King was assassinated.
SPEAKER_00Yes, very timely right there with the recent passing of Jesse Jackson.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and you know, Reverend Jackson actually actually visited quite a bit. So I got to work with Reverend Jackson a lot. Yeah. I was telling someone earlier today, you know, what was interesting is that he would be in town and call the museum and say, I'll be there in 10 minutes. And then we're all like, screw up. Oh my gosh.
SPEAKER_02He's coming, he's coming.
SPEAKER_01Well, because you just never knew who he was coming with. Yeah. Uh he could be bringing a group of kids, he could just be coming to come through. And for the visitors, it was very exciting because, you know, some people you go to a museum once, you're like, I don't need to walk through the exhibits. He would walk through the exhibits, people would want to take pictures with him. And I would say that he's one of the few people who never objected to people approaching him.
SPEAKER_00I love that.
SPEAKER_01You know, and not surprise though. Yeah, I mean, it was very on-brand for him, but even when he was getting less mobile, it was still that spirit that he had that I think people were still really attracted to and really responded. And folks of all ages, you know, and and and you're like, okay, guys, come. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's true. Can we have some order around this?
SPEAKER_00That's a great story to have.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. And so then did some really great work in Memphis around creating exhibitions and telling the civil rights story, and then
Reverend Jesse Jackson Memories
SPEAKER_01was looking for another challenge and came upon this opportunity in Boston, uh, at the Museum of African American History for Boston and Nantucket, and ended up here and been here. It'll be three years in June. We're lucky to have you, I can say that for sure.
SPEAKER_00Tell me, you you know, you mentioned Reverend Jackson, but who are the other people that have influenced you along your journey?
SPEAKER_01Oh goodness. You know, this is gonna sound corny, but definitely my parents are are big influences in my life, mostly because they were the ones who first connected me with history and the history of my culture and community. Um, my parents were very big on exposing us to a lot of different things. So going to museums, not just African-American museums, but museums of fine arts. I've been to the Philadelphia Museum of Fine Art a number of times as a kid, seeing different shows, and even watching like opera and things like that on PBS and having conversations and things like that. So those are my first influences. But then I think about Lonnie Bunch is a big one. He's now secretary of the Smithsonian, but I first met him when maybe right after the enabling legislation to create the museum. And it was fascinating to meet someone who was already a legend in the field who just had this idea of okay, we're gonna make this museum about African American history. And he would say, if we do it well, we're gonna tell the story in a way it's never been told before. It's an incredible museum, it's an incredible museum. But when I think about being able to have sat in on a couple of these early meetings where it was just high concept to going to the opening of it almost 10 years later, it was an absolutely phenomenal experience. And and so people like that, there's a uh curator who passed away. Her name is Faith Davis Ruffins, and she was one of the first black curators at the Smithsonian. And I I was inspired by her because one of the things she was really known for was asking difficult questions and going in and digging in the archives and finding the stories and bringing that truth forward in a way that was very unique for the black community, but grounded in the historical methodology. And so it's people like that.
SPEAKER_00We need more of that today for sure. Yeah, very, very much so for sure. So when you first took this role and you started up here in Boston, what was your vision for the museum as you started to dig in? And how have you sort of articulated that in
Choosing Boston And The Mission
SPEAKER_00the last few years that you've been here?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, um, one of the first things that was communicated to me when I applied for the position is that they were really looking to expand their outreach and impact. And I said, Oh, I like that idea. I like getting out there, being part of the community. And coming in, I realized that there was a very unique opportunity for us to get this story told. What is attractive about the museum is that we have these historic properties that were created for the black community. So in Boston, we have the African Meeting House of Boston, which is the oldest existing black church building, and then we have the ABL Smith School, which is the oldest public school built specifically for Black students. And then on Nantucket, we've got the African Meeting House of Nantucket, and then a family home that was owned by two black families. It was built by Seneca Boston, who's a formerly enslaved man in 1774, and then later purchased by a woman named Florence Higginbotham, who lived there for a number of years as well. And so for about 200 years, this house is occupied by these black families. And so I find that really attractive. And they're in areas where you wouldn't necessarily think there's a black history there. And they're kind of undiscovered. And so when I came in and talked to the team, I said, okay, we're gonna go from hidden gem to well-known treasure. Like that's the mission.
SPEAKER_00You had an opportunity, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01And I I really wanted to respond to that. The other thing is, I am very passionate, as you know, about history.
SPEAKER_00You are, you are.
SPEAKER_01I love all sorts of history, and I want people to be just as excited. So, how my challenge for myself is
From Hidden Gem To Treasure
SPEAKER_01how do you access that same enthusiasm and passion in your audience? And what are the different ways that you could do that? And as I was thinking in the job, I thought about particularly what the meeting house meant to the community historically. And so it was a gathering place, you know, it was a church. We're not gonna have church services, but it was a gathering place. They had so many different types of events. So I began to think about what sort of programming could we do? So now, as I'm sure you know, we have yoga once a month in the meeting house. Open those doors, get people in there, get people in, and it and what's interesting about the yoga is that we have a pretty dedicated audience of folks, and and they're like, we don't know if we want you to advertise as much.
SPEAKER_00Keep it to themselves, keep it to themselves.
SPEAKER_01But it's great to see that there's this group of people who who are dedicated to using the space for wellness. We have more school groups coming through more than ever. Last year we installed an AI hologram of Frederick Douglass.
SPEAKER_00Let's talk about that for a minute. You have a couple of exhibits right now that I want to dig into, and I love the fact that you um are a Frederick Douglass scholar and he has such a history here in Boston. I think it was meant to be for you to be up here. But tell us about the hologram and maybe tell us about the funny story that you conveyed to us while we were in London about the the AI portion of it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, you know, the staff jokes that Frederick Douglass is my historical boyfriend.
SPEAKER_02Not so shabby.
SPEAKER_01I was like, you know what? You're not wrong. And and and he's been really good to me. So um I'll I'll take it. The idea behind it, we worked with a company called Time Looper, and the idea was
Programming The Meeting House
SPEAKER_01how do we make Douglas accessible to folks? This is not an open AI system, so someone off in some remote part of the world can't load incorrect information into it. We control the information that goes into the system. So it's three of his autobiographies and selected speeches that are in there. And then the algorithm, um, which uses a number of different modeling, and I'm not fully sure what all of that means, but essentially we've programmed it so there's a general audience answer, and then he can create an answer based off of the different learning levels.
SPEAKER_00Uh so for like if you have a school group, it's one thing. Right.
SPEAKER_01So for third graders, it's a different answer than it would be for seventh graders or 11th graders, and so it's been very entertaining to watch people respond. It's uh like an 84-inch monitor, so it's very big. It's on a stand. And what we found is that visitors defer to Douglas, and in some cases, they they're acting like they're talking to a real Douglas, which I love. There's a relationship there, and we've had a few visitors stay for a while going back and forth with the AI, just wanting to get answers to you know, racism or understanding life. So Douglas is interesting. The AI is interesting because it's constantly learning and evolving from every interaction. But there are a couple of times where we come in that sometimes he kind of glares at folks a little bit, and we're like, are you gonna have a good day or a bad day? Right.
AI Frederick Douglass Explained
SPEAKER_01As the AI was learning tone, there was a phase there early on where people were like, he kind of has a little bit of an attitude.
SPEAKER_02I love that so much.
SPEAKER_01And I said, I don't think it's attitude, I think it's the AI trying to figure out how to adjust tones to be more jovial or militant. But there was about a two-week phase where a couple of my staff were like, um, Dr. Trent, I think Douglas has an attitude.
SPEAKER_00He's having a bad day.
SPEAKER_01He's not having a good day, or he's feeling really forceful. That's so funny. And then, you know, there's some questions he there's a standard answer if you ask him about the current presidency or current events, there's a standard answer that he'll give. But sometimes he surprises us, right? So there was a reporter who asked last year after the Super Bowl, asked him what he thought of Kendrick Lamar and his performance. And he's like, I'm not familiar with that musician, but this is what I think of music. And I was like, Oh, well, that's a surprise. That's pretty good. I love that. So it's things like that, but we're finding that people are loving the opportunity to talk to them because very few people are gonna read all of Douglas's writings, but they do want you want that opportunity to talk to a historical figure. And this gets you pretty close to that. It's pretty unique, yeah, very, very much so.
SPEAKER_00And your other exhibit is Black Voices, correct?
SPEAKER_01Yes, Black Voices of the Revolution.
SPEAKER_00Let's talk a little bit about that one.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so that exhibit was funded through a grant through the MA 250 initiative here, and the team put this together as a way to present the perspective of African Americans in Boston and Nentucket around the revolution. You know, what were their motivations for joining either the Patriots or the Loyalists, how that sentiment might have changed over time, and what were the influences? So we do a little bit about some of the black press that existed at the time. Um, so there's an opportunity for people to learn about not only how folks were documented as participants in the war, but the conversations people were having. We highlight the mapping so you can see that in these early maps, the communities are noted on those maps. What's also very exciting is this is the first time we have some of our archaeological objects on display. The museum has had numerous digs at both properties since the 70s. And so people have an opportunity to see some of the fragments of those digs and understand, you know, like you see a glass fragment, but with an archaeologist and historian, we can give you some context around what that means. And then what I'm really excited about is the stories of black women that we highlight in early America and colonial America because I think that women in general in this early period are ignored, right? You're typically cast as mother, daughter, sister, wife, and in the domestic spaces. And black women, it's even more restricted. But what we have found is that there are women who are doing phenomenal things. So Elizabeth Mumbet Freeman um sues for her freedom in the 1780s, and this is as Massachusetts. Very early on. Yeah, very early on. But there were a number of enslaved people who were petitioning for freedom, and she was very successful, and she's one of the cases that influences Massachusetts to ultimately
Black Voices Of The Revolution
SPEAKER_01abolish slavery because it's not consistent with the new constitution. But for a black woman to step forward and say this thing, this law, I think is wrong, and that my life has value and I'm not satisfied, I think is a tremendous statement. Absolutely. We also highlight Phyllis Wheatley Peters, who people know, first black woman to have a published book of poetry. Um, but there are also women like Zipporah Potter Atkins, who lived in the 1600s um but owned property in the North End, right? Which I'm sure was very, very unusual. Listen, women owning property is highly unusual in Boston. So a black woman, and that there's a record of it, is absolutely phenomenal. And so there's there's a lot of exciting things about it. We also have AI in there that also tells you about um the Patriots and the loyalist, African Americans and people who served. So you can ask questions to that as well. We we try to have multiple levels of engagement in our exhibitions.
SPEAKER_00Well, I think people are more familiar with black regiments in the Civil War and probably less so in their participation in the Revolutionary War. So I'm sure it's a really interesting and an enlightening exhibit for many to experience.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely, because there are Lord Dunmar puts together in Virginia a black regiment. Um, as part of his proclamation, if you join the loyalists, you get you get your freedom. And so there is a sizable group of black men who join, and there's also a sizable group of black men who are joining on the Patriot side, and the troops are integrated at that time. Um, and we don't think about that. But the other thing we don't think about is the impact of the war, right? And so the war ends, um, but even before the war's end, as loyalists are fleeing Boston and uh New England for Canada and other places, or even going down to like South Carolina, families are broken up, right? So you still have mixed status families. So someone's free, someone's enslaved, or they're they're owned by two different owners. If one owner is with the Patriots and one is the loyalist, some people are going to Halifax and never see their family again. So we forget that it's just as brutal as the Civil War and the consequences that it has for populations. Yeah. Wow, amazing. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00We also know that the museum is an integral part of the Black Heritage Trail, which is in a lot of it is in Beacon Hill, on the Common, etc. I've I just recently walked it again with with a um a guide from the National Park Service, and it's a really an extraordinary experience. So you worked for the National Park Service, which is interesting, but talk a little bit about that partnership between the museum and the National Park Service and why it's important. Everyone knows of the Park Service as Freedom Trail. Yeah. I love this version of what they do even more, to be honest with you, just because it's the unknown.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, you know, and a lot of people don't know. Our national parks
Women Who Changed Massachusetts
SPEAKER_01have all different types of relationships with communities all across the country. So with Boston National Parks, there is some land that the Park Service actually owns, and then there's a lot of partnerships. So we're a park partnership. And in the 70s, work began to create a national park specifically for African American history. And it's now known as the Boston African-American National Historic Site. And so within that, they identified certain buildings that are related to the abolitionist time period, an antebellum time period, and associated with African American history. They got that idea because our founder, Sue Bailey Thurman, when she arrives in the 50s, begins traveling around Boston trying to document black abolitionists. And she starts to find their homes, and she's the one who creates what is now known as the Black Heritage Trail. And so when the legislation goes through to create the Boston African-American Historic Site, all these private properties are incorporated in there, as well as the Black Heritage Trail. So now we have an agreement with the National Park Service. They acknowledge that the trails essentially are intellectual history. The Park Service interprets the trail, but then we also have a partnership with them where we do joint work on programming. Historically, there was a time where there were park rangers who did all of the interpretive operations with the museum, and that has shifted over the years. But it's it's a fairly unique relationship, but it's one that I think has been incredibly beneficial.
SPEAKER_00I think it really, to me, it really brings the story to life a lot more when you when you're walking, like you said, private properties. You're stopping in front of someone's res residence now, and they have such extraordinary stories, but it just feels like the community embraces it. Um it's something that visitors may not know exists, but I will tell you, if you haven't done it before, you need to do this tour. It's absolutely fantastic.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, you know, for this past Juneteenth, we said, oh, maybe we'll offer like two abbreviated tours like of the trail
War’s Human Costs And Legacies
SPEAKER_01right around the museum. Um, we thought maybe we would get 15 to 30 people. The first tour, there was over a hundred people. The poor park rangers couldn't even Oh, I love that.
SPEAKER_00They're voices, right? People wanted to hear the voices.
SPEAKER_01They they were like, I need a speaker, and I think they had to like go to a park and then come back and talk about everything that they saw because we just couldn't anticipate just the interest people would have with seeing it, because there's something special about Beacon Hill in general. Like it's it's such a uh lovely space to walk in Boston. But then when you know that there's this embedded history, this history of resistance, that there used to be rumors that if an escaped slave got to Beacon Hill, they would disappear, and that's because of the alleyways and the gardens that people could hide in. It takes on this sort of magical meaning, and you can really sense that on the heritage trail.
SPEAKER_00I love that. So we talked a little bit about Nantucket before, um, and you talked about the facilities there. What is the the black history of Nantucket? If you can just sum it up and what would people experience when they go there and visit your facilities?
SPEAKER_01You know, the Nantucket story is a little bit different than Boston because it's a much smaller community, but where we're located is called the New Guinea community. That was where m uh predominantly black but uh people of color lived uh in the 18th and 19th century on the island. It's away from downtown, so.
Black Heritage Trail Partnership
SPEAKER_01If you're familiar with Nantucket and you come in on the ferry, you're going in about a mile before you get there. And that was done deliberately because that was the only area that they were allowed to settle. So we tell those stories of the community there. We just celebrated the 200th anniversary of the meeting house there last year. So it's a smaller campus, but people are surprised that there's such a rich uh black history on the island. There's a cemetery for African Americans not too far from where we are, as well as there was a beach. So similar to the Inkwell and Martha's Vineyard, there's a place called Codfish Park that was another area for that. And so I think people are we're seeing more and more people come out and visit us because they just didn't have any idea that there was this population of black people living and doing fairly well there. I mean, they're involved in the whaling industry. Uh, the son of um the man who built the house becomes one of the first black whaling captains to travel with an all-black crew. Like, there are these amazing stories that were still unearthing. We found that there was a woman, black woman who lived on Nantucket, then moved to California during the gold rush and ended up funding part of John Brown's raid. And yeah, like Nantucket and Boston folks pop up in some very interesting places, doing amazing things. And you just don't think that that's where this black community would end up. I think somebody ended up in Namibia in the 19th century. And I'm like, well, how did you guys get there? Right. I got questions.
SPEAKER_00That's amazing. Well, I think too, for an island like Nantucket, which many people see as a you know a summer resort destination, what a great asset to have a historic site there for people to enjoy when you're not going to the beach and doing the dining and all of that. So that's that's fabulous. And you do have some online programming as well, correct?
SPEAKER_01We do do online programming. Um, we do have a couple of online galleries that we've had up for a while, and we're in the process of revising some things. We've got some new curriculum that we'll be launching soon, and then my team does virtual tours for folks if they sign up uh with us, um, and they do that for corporate groups and they do that for school groups. So we are trying to engage folks on multiple levels.
SPEAKER_00That's terrific. So just a you know, a quick we'll we'll wrap this up with sort of a two-part question. One is we know that you've um been a victim, unfortunately, of some federal funding cuts. Uh so you know, talk to me a little bit about that. How are you trying to fill that void? And then with that void, what does the future look like for the museum?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so last year was a challenging year, as you and so many people may know. We received a notice that our funding was terminated. Uh, we appealed that ruling as we were allowed to do. And then, God bless her, our our Secretary of State, Andrea Campbell, filed a lawsuit with several other Secretary of States that got us a temporary injunction and got us access to the funds fairly quickly.
Beacon Hill’s Hidden Networks
SPEAKER_01And then later this fall, they returned the funds. So we are now back on track with that. But there are other policies and practices from this administration that has significantly reduced our or impacted our revenue. So last February, we saw about an 80% drop in our revenue just based off of those initial policies that uh came out. Um, and I will say once we got vocal about how we were impacted, we received a lot of support. But I think that people think because those are off the news cycle and the grants have been restored, that things are okay. And the reality is that things aren't okay. Institutions like ours still need community support, still need community funding, even at the state and local levels, you know, because of the loss of federal funding across the board, it has affected how nonprofits operate. And so now we're all scrambling to recalibrate because dollars that we thought were once guaranteed aren't there anymore. And even if programs have been restored, quite frankly, the confidence in a federal grant isn't where it used to be.
SPEAKER_00Of course, and and you I'm sure you're all uh sort of fishing from the same pond for the local private dollars as well. So that, you know, you don't want to pit yourselves against other, you know, not for profits that are also in need of funding uh support. But um well, hopefully this too shall pass.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and you know what? I have been surprised at how people have responded. We've seen more people continue to engage with the museum. We had a group of second graders last year who heard about us and at their school raised money. And I said, Okay. And then they went to their state representative and said, You need to save the museum. And I said, Oh, I think I've got a new lobbying group. There's some folks on the Senate side you can go to next time too.
SPEAKER_00Our future is bright.
Nantucket’s New Guinea Community
SPEAKER_00You know, it's okay. The kids are all right. That's right. So tell me what's what's next? What's next for the museum for for you? And uh, what's the future look like?
SPEAKER_01You know, I think immediately we are ready and excited to capture the 250th moment. Right. As the rest of Boston is, although we will say that our 250th moment was last year, so everybody else is late. But across the board, by the way. But we are excited to see the influx of tourism this year and are excited to be able to introduce the visitors to Boston and even the residents to a part of the history they don't know uh and want to keep that moving forward. And then I think we are continuing to tell the story. Um, we've applied for some funding that will allow us to tell a richer story of the African Meeting House, and so I'm fairly confident in it. We're working on the application now, but the goal would be to give people a better idea of who the people were that attended the church, who who conducted programs there, the community events. And so I'm hopeful in the next few years we'll be able to answer some of those burning questions that have been presented to us. And then, you know, we're gonna keep fundraising and keep sharing the history. Boston is a very special community, and I feel incredibly privileged to be here and have made some wonderful friends and community partners who are in us in this with us to make some good trouble.
SPEAKER_00I love that.
SPEAKER_01And to get people excited because I think that this city has so many untold stories or rarely told stories, and we want to be part of uplifting that.
SPEAKER_00That's fantastic. Tell our listeners um where they can find out more about the Museum of African American History.
SPEAKER_01Well, the easiest way to do that is at our website, ma'org, or follow us on our socials, which is uh Ma Museum on all so social media. But yeah, we are out here moving and grooving. So we hope folks join us. Sign up for the newsletter because things happen fast and furious right now.
SPEAKER_00I love it. Well, Dr. Noelle Trent, thank you so much for being here today. What a great conversation. I appreciate it. Thank you for having me. Looking to find more Boston stories, go to meetboston.com and don't forget to share and subscribe to the Boston Found podcast.