Psychology of Running the Boston Marathon

Former Boston Marathon Race Director Dave McGillivray discusses the unique challenges and incredible sense of accomplishment awaiting those who run the Boston Marathon.

https://www.meetboston.com/podcast/

Transcript

Welcome To Boston Found

Speaker 2 0:06

Founded four centuries ago, Boston has simply never settled. Conversations here determine the future, so let's discover what's next. Join us as we seek out the real Boston, past and present, through stories and perspectives that capture a city always in motion. I'm Martha Sheridan, CEO of Meet Boston, and this is Boston Found. I'm your host, Martha Sheridan, and today we are so excited to welcome a very special guest to the program, Dave McGillivray, who is the former race director for the Boston Marathon and also the president and CEO of Dimsey Events. Dave has an extraordinary, extraordinary biography, and we're so excited to chat with him today. Welcome, Dave.

Speaker 0:54

Thank you very much. This is this is great to be here. Meet Boston. I've met Boston a lot over the years.

Speaker 2 1:01

Many different versions of it, probably.

Speaker 1:04

There's the Boston guy. Every time I travel, I love it.

Speaker 2 1:06

I love that. Great. Well, welcome. We're happy to have you here. I know you have a very prolific biography and long, and we're gonna cover a lot of it in our session today. But give us a sense of your journey. One of the most interesting parts of your resume is that we know you're a runner, right? But you're also an athlete, you're an athlete, obviously, an author, a speaker, an entrepreneur, a philanthropist. So take us back to the beginning a little bit. How did all of this get started and what's your journey been like up until now?

Speaker 1:38

I I grew up not too far from here in Medford Mass. We say Mefa. Mefa. When I was a young boy, because I was surrounded by Boston sports, Celtics, Bruins, Red Sox, Patriots, and whatnot, I wanted to be one thing and one thing only. I wanted to be a professional athlete. That's all I wanted. I wanted to play second base at Fenway Park for the Boston Red Sox. That's what I wanted.

Speaker 2 2:03

Were you a good baseball player?

Speaker 2:05

I was, in my opinion, I was pretty good. Yeah. But unfortunately, I had a challenge. And my challenge was I was vertically challenged. Yes. And so I know the feeling. As a result, I was always the last one picked when my friends picked sides. I was always the last one cut when I went out for high school sports, baseball, basketball. In fact, when I was the last one cut in the basketball team, coach comes up to me, puts his arm around me, looks down at me. Well, everyone looked down at me. And he said, Dave, if you were five inches taller, you'd be my starting guard. Oh, wow. I thought, Coach, what? I thought it had to do with ability level, not how tall you were. So I challenged the senator one-on-one at 21. He was six foot five. I was five foot four, point three eight seven on a good day. Who's counting? On a good day. And I beat him. A defining moment in my life. Oh, wow. I said to myself at that young age of 15 that I will never ever ever allow anyone to tell me I'm not good enough, that I don't belong. And I went home that night and I put a sign over my bed. And a sign said, Please God, make me grow. Well, he must have been on vacation or something, because he didn't make me grow, or or did he? And I looked back at my life in retrospect and I said, Son of a gun, he did make me grow. In a different way. In a different way. He made me grow morally and ethically and spiritually, intellectually, and he actually made me grow internally. Because that's who you are. It's who you are inside, not who you are physically. So what did I start to do? Started to run. Why? No one can catch you from running. That's right. So I just started my journey of running. And when I turned 12 years old, I ran 12 miles on my 12th birthday. Oh my goodness. 13 years old, 13 miles, 14, 14. When I turned 50, 50 miles, when I turned 60, 60 miles. And now I'm 71 and I've run my age on my birthday for the last 60 years. Wow. People say to me all the time, What are you gonna do when you turn 90? Run 90 miles. I said, Well, uh first of all, I want to be breathing and then get out of bed. And I said, you know, my motto in life is it's my game, so it's my rules. So I can change the rules. So we'll see. So that's how I get started running.

Dropping Out Then Finishing Anyway

Speaker 2 4:22

That's amazing. So you've been involved with the marathon for many, many, many years, obviously. And you were initially the technical director, and now you're the race director. So talk a little bit about the difference. What is, you know, for those of us that aren't that well versed in in the world.

Speaker 4:39

Well, I started running the marathon when I was 17. And I didn't make it. I dropped out in the hills in Newton. Wow. Got taken to the Newton Wellesley Hospital in an ambulance.

Speaker 2 4:52

Was it a warm day?

Speaker 4:53

No, it's just I wasn't prepared. Okay. I didn't train.

Speaker 1 4:57

Okay.

Speaker 4:58

And I vowed to come back the next year. And what happened was is the day of Patriots Day, I called my grandfather, who was a supporter of my athleticism. I said, Grandpa, I'm gonna go run that race in Boston. He goes, Oh, they call that the Boston Marathon. I said, Oh, well, that's a good name for it. I'm gonna go run it. So he said, I'll meet you at Coolidge Corner. I said, Great. Where's that? He said, 24 miles. He lived right near Coolidge Corner. I said, All right, so he just walked right over to Coolidge Corner. But I never made it. When I got home from the hospital, I called him. No answer. Call him again, no answer. Nine o'clock at night, he answers the phone. I said, Grandpa, where have you been? Dave, where have you been? I've been waiting for you all night.

unknown 5:37

Oh no.

Speaker 5:38

Old man Kelly goes by, street sweepers go by. No, Dave. I said, Yeah, I um I failed. He said, What? I said, I quit. He said, No, you didn't. I said, What did I do? He said, You learned. I said, What I learned. You learned you cannot go along in life, set reckless goals. You had no business being in that race. I said, You're right. He says, I'll cut another deal with you. I said, What's that? He says, You train for it next year. I'll be here waiting for you. Deal. Two months later, he died.

Speaker 2 6:04

Oh, geez.

Speaker 6:06

I was like, I gotta do this. I turned 18. I said, I gotta do this. I trained, I trained, I trained. I was ready to go. And the day before I got sick, my parents said, You can't run. I said, I have to run. The newspapers are saying, Dave running a memory of grandfather. They said, You're too sick. I said, Can you give me something that very few other people have ever given to me in my life? What's that? A chance. Can you just give me a chance? Isn't that all we ever want in our lives? Is a chance? They said, okay, they drove me to the start. I take off. I go by where I had dropped out the year before, doing a survivor shuffle over the hills. I finally got to by BC and 21 and a half miles, bam, down I go again. Dropped out of my second Boston Marathon. Now, from Boston, I want to be a professional athlete. I'm the last one cut, the last one picked, dropped out of my first Boston, dropped out of my second Boston, head in my hand, sitting on the curb. Another defining moment happened. I turned around and I couldn't believe where I was. And I was sitting in front of the Evergreen Cemetery. And that's where they buried my grandfather. And there's his tombstone right there. And he said, that son of a gun said he'd be there waiting for me. Now he wasn't there physically, right? But he's there spiritually. And I picked myself up and I finished in four and a half hours. And I said to myself on that day. So I've run it the last 53 years in a row. And then in 1987, there was a wheelchair accident at the start of the marathon. And there was a rope tripping incident where they left the rope up and fired the gun and some of the runners tripped. So the BA said, we might want to sort of hire somebody to come in and maybe fix this up a little bit. So they hired me in 1988 as the technical coordinator, mainly just to fix the start more than anything else. So that was my role and my title, technical coordinator. And then they changed it to technical director. And then in 2001, they changed it to race director because effectively I started directing all the operational and logistical aspects of the race. And that's how I became the race director. So I've been directing the race in some capacity for the last 39 years.

Running Across America For Jimmy Fund

Speaker 2 8:27

I'm sure you've seen a lot of change, which we'll get to. That's an incredible story. Just want to back up a little bit to 1978, and you ran across the country from Oregon to Massachusetts. Why?

Speaker 8:40

Why? Couldn't afford a bling ticket. No. You know, again, I'm always setting goals and not limits. And I heard about a friend of mine who biked across the country from Medford Mass to Medford, Oregon. And I just, I'm a runner. I said, if he can bike across, I can run across. Well, that's an idiotic comparison, I know, but I said, I'm gonna do this. And I was working in the Hancock Tower at the time, and I looked out and I saw Fenway Park, where I wanted to play second base. And I saw a sign out in Right Field said, Help make a dream come true, support the Jimmy Fund. Well, I wasn't even sure what the Jimmy Fund was. So I picked up the phone, called the Jimmy Fund. A guy by the name of Ken Coleman answered the phone, and Ken was the executive director of the Jimmy Fund and the voice of the Boston Red Sox. And I said, Hi, Mr. Coleman, my name is Dave, and I want to run across the country for the Jimmy Fund. Well, after he picked himself up off the floor, he said, Come on and let's talk about it. So we did, and we talked about it. And he said, The Red Sox will support you and the Jimmy Fund will support you. So I decided I was going to do it. And I trained really hard. I went out, started ceremonially.

Speaker 2 9:44

How old were you in 78?

Speaker 9:45

23. 23, okay. Went out ceremonially, started in the Kingdome during a Red Soxia Mariners baseball game. That's very good. Flew down to Metbit, Oregon, ran across America 45, 50 miles every single day, without a day off, ran to Boston here, Boston, and ran into Fenway Park, where I wanted to play second base.

Speaker 2 10:09

Was there a game that day?

Speaker 10:10

There was a game that day where there were 32,000 people cheering me on. And the Red Sox said, come out of left field, the Green Monster, run around the Warning Track to home plate, give a wave, and exit the park. We got a ball game to play. I come out, I'm running around. The crowd went nuts. The players went nuts. The media went nuts. It was unbelievable, right? I kept going around and around and like they had to call the police on me. Get this clown up.

Speaker 2 10:37

Was that the end of another 50-mile leg? Yeah, yeah. When you ran into Fenway?

Speaker 10:41

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Every single day. And so, but I was told by Runner's World magazine that that was the first time. I don't know if it's true or not, but I'll take it. The first time someone had combined running with raising money for charity for a greater purpose.

Speaker 2 10:56

How much did you raise? Do you remember?

Speaker 10:58

About 150,000. But that's pretty good back then.

Speaker 2 11:01

Wow.

Speaker 11:01

No internet, no other, you know, it's just nickels and dimes and a canister as I'm going across the country. So that's why I ran I ran across the country. And that then my whole career took off from there.

Blindfolded Boston And Inclusion Lessons

Speaker 2 11:17

You've done some triathlons, a run up the Empire State Building, a 1,500-mile New England run, the World Marathon Challenge, and of course many more. One significant one that does jump out at me is that you ran the Boston Marathon blindfolded. Talk a little bit. Was it to get the experience for those that were registering as sight-paired runners? Yeah.

Speaker 11:41

My brother still does and did work for the Carol Center for the Blind in Newton. He called me up one day. He said, You know, you're doing all these crazy runs and fundraisers. Why don't you raise money for the Carol Center? I said, All right, what do you want me to do? He says, I don't know. The other guy who figures these things out. I said, I'm not sure. And he says, Why don't you run the Boston Marathon and raise money for the Carol Center? I said, No one raises money in the Boston Marathon. We all do it for our own personal goals back then. No one didn't realize that. No, okay. No one.

Speaker 2 12:13

You just had to qualify and you qualify, you run, and that's the end of it, right?

Speaker 12:17

So there were no charity runners back then in the early 80s. So I said, all right, let me think about it. So I went and I visited with the visually impaired, some of the blind runners. I told my brother, I will run this year's Boston Marathon for the Carol Center for the Blind. And I did. Blindfolded. So I ran Did you have a guide? I had a guide guiding me the whole way. I had two guides, as a matter of fact. And I ran three hours, 14 minutes, blindfolded, but I was in much better shape. But they couldn't run any faster. So then I couldn't. So it taught me the lesson about, and all these things I do, there are lessons learned. And this lesson was the concept of dependence and independence. I was dependent on them. And I said to myself, I'll never put myself in that position again if I can help myself, because I don't want to burden someone else to have to take care of me. And if I'm in a good place, then I can give back and help somebody else. So it it teaches me a lesson. But yeah, I I I ran that. And it's funny, I've run 173 marathons. And that's the only one I don't remember. Because I never saw it.

Speaker 2 13:27

That's true.

Speaker 13:28

I only heard it.

Speaker 2 13:29

Did it help you in, you know, as race director or coordinator, whatever your role was at that that at that time, in being more sensitive to pairing up guides with runners?

Speaker 13:41

So they they they didn't have the same experience of being held back, unintentionally, of course, but the whole para-adaptive community was just getting started with the wheelchair division. And then we had hand cycles and then para athletes and the visually impaired, and now that's a huge part of the Boston Marathon now. And we spent a lot of energy, time, and focus on the on that whole program. And it takes extra care because of just the the level of disabilities and what we need to do to make sure that they're okay during their journey down course. So so that something like that also made me realize some of the challenges that they may have. So it makes me a better event director by being a participant too.

Seven Marathons Seven Continents

Speaker 2 14:26

That's fantastic. I don't think many can say they would put themselves in those shoes very often. All right, so the World Marathon Challenge, which is seven marathons on all seven continents. Talk a little bit about that. Talk about the differences, the nuances, the cultural differences, the uh root differences, et cetera.

Speaker 14:45

Yeah. So a friend of mine who was the actual president of the Florida Marlins baseball team called me up one day. He says, Hey, have you ever heard of the World Marathon Challenge? I said, Yeah. He said, You want to do it. I said, I said, it's a $47,000 entry fee. What do you get? Really? Yeah. I mean, you're flying all over the world, you know, in a chartered jet. He said, No, no, no, I'm putting some people together. I'll pay for the whole thing. I said, sign me up. So I said, why not? Right. And so it's seven marathons in seven days.

Speaker 2 15:13

Oh, it's in seven days.

Speaker 15:14

Seven days on seven continents. So what happened was we 50 of us from around the world flew to Cape Town, South Africa, met there. Then we get on a Russian military jet, and we flew from Cape Town to Antarctica. We got off the plane and we ran a marathon in Antarctica, like minus 10 degrees on the ice, on the snow, with the wind, the whole bit, you know, six laps around a four and a half mile circuit that they plowed. We got back on the plane, flew back to Cape Town, South Africa.

Speaker 2 15:47

What was your time? Do you remember?

Speaker 15:49

430 on that. Okay, yeah. They were all 430.

Speaker 2 15:51

Did you have like spikes in your good question?

Speaker 15:54

I brought them, but I I tried them out and I didn't need them. Okay. Because there was like crushed snow. So I there was enough traction. Because I didn't want to wear them if I didn't have to, because they were uncomfortable. Flew back to Cape Town. It was like 85 degrees, got off the plane, ran a marathon there, got back on a plane, flew 12 hours.

Speaker 2 16:13

So were you sleeping on the plane?

Speaker 16:15

Yes. The plane was our hotel.

unknown 16:16

Oh my gosh.

Speaker 16:18

Plane was our hotel. So we were recovering at 35,000 feet in a in an airplane seat. That's it.

Speaker 2 16:24

So you didn't have bunks or anything. Oh my word.

Speaker 16:28

No, you're in a seat. Wow. Get off the plane at Perth, run Perth. And people would say, When's the next marathon start? Starts when we get there. We had 168 hours. There were no such things as days anymore. It wasn't Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday. It was just whatever. It was just one.

Speaker 2 16:46

Whatever.

Speaker 16:47

You know, we went through 17 time zones, you know. So we weren't thinking of days. We would just say, when's the next race? It depends on how long it takes for us to get there. Ran in Perth at like three in the morning, finished that one, flew to Dubai in Asia, did one there, flew to Lisbon, Portugal, ran one there, then Catahenja in Colombia.

Speaker 2 17:07

Lisbon Hilly? Because that's a pretty good city.

Speaker 17:09

Most of most of them are on the coast. Okay.

Speaker 2 17:11

Yeah.

Speaker 17:11

Charted the courses on the coast. So they were relatively flat. So we did uh Caraghenha in South America and then flew to Miami South Beach and ran out last marathon there. And what was interesting is that everyone on the plane, when we got on the plane, they were, it seemed like most of my peers could get some sleep. I couldn't sleep. I couldn't sleep. And I said, that's gonna kill me. Sleep deprivation is gonna be my nemes. And after three or four marathons, I'm done. But I survived and the running, I could hardly wait to get off the Don plane and start running. Yes. The running was, I don't mean to belittle it, but it was like the easy part. Yeah, that's it was the rat race in between.

Speaker 2 17:54

You were the first the precursors of the amazing race, I think. Something like that. A um reality TV show around that.

Speaker 18:02

Yeah, so sleep deprivation and the nutrition side of it and all those other things you don't have a lot of control over were the challenge, not the running part.

The Psychology Of Training

Speaker 2 18:10

Well, that's a perfect segue into my next question, which is um I have a daughter who, by the way, um has run the Boston Marathon and many others, but uh so I I know how she trains, but she's now 30, but she was, you know, 25 when she ran her first, which is a little different. But tell me a little bit about what it means to train and run a marathon. What does that look like? Uh this episode is called The Psychology of Running the Ba of the Boston Marathon. And I know a lot of it's in your head, and you've kind of reaffirmed that, right? So tell it tell us a little bit about what it looks like for not for the elite athlete, but really for the the athlete that that has a fairly decent time and just wants to get that personal best and make that accomplishment.

Speaker 18:53

Well, when people ask me, what's the toughest part about running a marathon? Toughest part? Signing the application. It's having the guts and the courage to make the commitment. But like my grandfather said, then you have to earn the right. You can't do it on a barroom bet. It doesn't work. So you have to do the work. You have to do the work. It's funny because when people ask me what do I do for a living, I say, I'm a race director. They said, You're a what? I said, I'm a race director. They said, race director? What do they do? Chalk mark in the road and y'all go? I said, Well, that's part of it. But what I do is I help raise the level of self-esteem and self-confidence of tens of thousands of people in America. That's what I do. And I said, that's what happens at the start of the Boston Marathon. Because what happens is you have the guts to make the commitment. You sign the application, you do the work, you tow the line, you answer the gun, you run the course, you cross the finish line, you get a medal, and magic happens. You go home feeling good about yourself.

Speaker 2 20:00

After you feel like crap.

Speaker 20:02

You still feel good about yourself. The mind is still, yeah. It physically it doesn't matter. Right, right. You're done. Now it's all in your head. Emotionally, you did it. You go home feeling good about yourself. And that's the foundation by which we accomplish everything in our lives. And that's why so many people are doing it. The walls of intimidation have crumbled. The whole aspect of philanthropy has really got people off the couch because maybe they never believed they could run a marathon before, but now they're doing it for little Johnny down the street.

Speaker 2 20:35

It gives them the motivation. It gives them the motivation. Absolutely.

Speaker 20:37

Right. And so they say, I'm going to do this. They and they make the commitment. And that's why races now are selling out at record pace.

Speaker 2 20:44

It's unbelievable. Game changer for philanthropy. It's really cool, though.

Speaker 20:48

I mean, look at the hundreds of millions of people.

Speaker 2 20:50

What is the marathon raise?

Speaker 20:51

70. 50 to 70.

Speaker 2 20:53

Million a year for various charities. That's that's extraordinary. Yeah.

Speaker 20:57

So yeah.

Speaker 2 20:58

So I I just want to kind of go back to that psychology of running. And, you know, recently, I think it was the LA Marathon where the U.S. runner came up on the Kenyan runner and literally in the last instant crossed the finish line first. What would that tell me what that might be like for both runners at that moment.

Speaker 21:16

Well, I've always felt like I mean it's nice to be in the lead, but I'd rather be the hunter than the hunted.

Speaker 2 21:23

Yeah, I love that. Right.

Speaker 21:24

And because if you watch that race, uh Michael, who was in the lead, he looked back a hundred times. And lead runners hardly ever do that because they're just focused on what's ahead, not what's behind. And they're just putting the hammer down, putting the hammer down. Something happened to him. He knew he was you know running out of energy, and he was just trying to find out what the gap is, what the gap is. With the gap, and he kept looking left shoulder, right shoulder, right shoulder.

Speaker 2 21:53

You think that slowed him down? The looking back.

Speaker 21:55

Oh, it definitely should slow him down. But then, I don't know if you noticed or he He took a wrong turn. He followed the lead vehicle off the course for a little bit. I didn't notice that. Yeah. Okay. So that set him back a little bit. So now you can only imagine what he is running in disp you know desperate. He's like, I gotta get there. I gotta, you know. And this other guy is just closing the gap. And I've always said that when you pass someone, you're gaining the energy that they're losing, and vice versa. So my best time on the Boston Marathon course is two hours 2958.

Speaker 2 22:30

And what's that pace?

Speaker 22:32

It's like 535.

Speaker 2 22:33

535, okay.

Speaker 22:34

And I always say the best way to run a marathon is run negative splits. In other words, run the second half faster than the first. Because if you run the first half fast, you're gassed. Yeah. All of a sudden you're doing the survivor shuffle down Beacon Street. You don't want that. You want the opposite to happen. And that's why running Boston is so different than almost any other marathon in the world because of the topography of the course, which we can talk about.

Speaker 2 23:02

I want to talk about the uh several things. The what makes Boston special. I I go as a as a um, well, you know, we partner with them, obviously. I comment on air just about the impact that event has on our city and our our region. I also go because I just love the feeling of watching the finish. And not the elite athletes. I'm the I'm the one who likes to watch the people that can't believe they're actually gonna cross the Boston Marathon finish line for the first time, the emotion of it all. But it just feels to me, and and the way this community embraces the marathon, the hotels all deck out, and it just feels different. I've been to the New York Marathon to watch my daughter. I've been to smaller marathons in Rhode Island. Just there's just a different vibe here. Tell me how why is that?

Speaker 23:51

Well, it's the oldest continuous marathon in the world. This will be 130, right? You know, I always say people like me, my title might be technical coordinator, race director, whatever, but I'm just a caretaker. Because it was here way before I was born. It'll be here way after I'm gone. I'm just taking care of legacy. That's all I'm doing, right? And as far as the runners are concerned, I said it's the most iconic, prestigious marathon in the world. You know, the greatest runners in the world have come here. Now the whole philanthropy aspect of it is off the charts. The course itself is just so different than any other major marathon in the world in terms of, you know, the downhill elevation at the beginning, and then, you know, the uphills uh on Com Av, once you turn the corner at the fire station at 17.5 in Newton, and then just you know, running by Fenway through Kenmore Square, right on Hereforth, left on Boylston, all of that is just so iconic. And that's all people here all the time.

Speaker 2 24:55

Um on Com Av.

Speaker 24:56

Under Massav. I put that there.

Speaker 2 24:59

You did.

Speaker 24:59

But because the city was concerned that the north-south corridor was being blocked because we were going across Mass Av instead of under.

Speaker 2 25:09

So you helped them out.

Speaker 25:10

So we said, well, I'm gonna put it under the even though they have to come up with the hill. I got all these complaints by people saying, You added another hill. I said, come on. It's only like a quarter of a half a mile from the finish.

Speaker 2 25:22

It just feels like when people though come out from under that overpass that they if they can make it up that hill, they know like I am golden. I'm there, I'm there. Okay. That's so amazing.

Speaker 25:33

And then the whole concept of of the qualification standards. So back in the day when the race was growing, it's just a volunteer organized group, you know, the BAA, and it was like a thousand runners. But that was overwhelming back in those days. So they said, we need to develop something to limit the number of people running in this. So they imposed a standard, a qualifying standard. And at the time, I think it was like four hours flat for everyone. There were no women in the race at the time. Those days are gone. But what ended up happening, it almost backfired because the thing that they imposed to limit the field actually made people more anxious and interested in doing it because they wanted a BQ. They wanted to qualify because this was their mini Olympics. You know, you're not going to make the Olympic team, but I qualified for the Boston Marathon. So more and more people, that's their goal. Ultimately, every marathon in the world someday wants to do the Boston Marathon at least once.

Speaker 2 26:33

It's a bucket list.

Speaker 26:34

It's a bucket list, whether it's a BQ, a qualifier, a do-for-charity, or however else you can get into the race, they want to experience this event at least one time in their life.

Weather Decisions And Race Safety

Speaker 2 26:50

Weather's a factor in every context of running for for sure. Here, you know, I feel like in April, usually it's okay. Um, you know, the but you get that swing up into the like the 70 degree mark, and people really aren't expecting that, especially those that have trained in New England. So talk a little bit about how weather is the factor, not just here, but in other places.

Speaker 27:14

Yeah. Well, like in 2017, we had the Nor'easter come through. And we were meeting the day before the race saying, what do we do? You know, do we cancel? Do we not, you know, what do we do? And and what's interesting is that runners feel, and they're probably right, because I'm one of them and I feel the same way, that we can run through anything. But race management can't necessarily manage through anything. With the Nor'easter coming through and gusts of winds 50, 60 miles an hour, phones blowing all over the place, blowing away, uh, water stations, right? Porta johns are flying everywhere. You know, like volunteers maybe not show up. They don't have to. Right, right. Right? All of a sudden, we're exposed. Yeah. Right. And I've always said if you don't fire the gun, no one gets hurt. Right? So we had to make a conscientious decision. And I woke up, I was at the hotel, and it's like two in the morning, I get up and looked out the window. Rain's going like horizontally, and I'm like, oh my God, what do we do? Call the National Weather Service. Long story short, they said it was gonna slow down and die down. I said, okay, once we make the decision to put people on the bus, to ship them out there, even if we cancel once they're out there, guess what? They're gonna run anyways.

Speaker 2 28:34

Yes.

Speaker 28:34

Right? Yeah, don't put them on the bus if you don't want them to run. Had to make that decision like five hours before the six, whatever. Then in 2012 was the hot year, and it was 89 degrees at the start.

Speaker 2 28:48

For New England runners, that's a that's a warm day.

Speaker 28:51

And it was it was 89 at the start and 89 at the finish. When Jack Foltz won 50 years ago in 1976, it was like 90 at the start, but it got cooler and cooler as you got to Boston. This year was different, it was hot the whole way. I got up on the status platform in front of 30,000 people and I said, Listen, we're a team. There's you and there's us. We can't fit all of you in our medical tent. You all won't fit as a result. You have to take personal responsibility. You have to, you have to back off. This isn't a PR day for you. You know, if you get in trouble, it's probably your own fault. Well, you know, we ended up having 2,500 in our medical tents. We transported 250 to area hospitals.

Speaker 2 29:38

How does that compare to a regular double or more?

Speaker 29:43

I mean, it was it was a tough day. It was a tough day. And that was that was 212. So then the morning of 213, I woke up and it was a perfect day. And I'm thinking, oh, thank you, God, for a great day. Thank you. I get out to the start and I had a um we had a 26 second moment of silence for the victims of the Sandy Hook massacre that happened. So 26 seconds of quiet in Hopkinton, you could hear a pin drop. Little did I know that a few hours later, 26 miles down the road, we were gonna be experiencing our own tragedy.

Speaker 2 30:30

Didn't know that then.

Speaker 30:31

Didn't know that then.

Speaker 2 30:32

Even though the weather was perfect.

Speaker 30:34

The weather was perfect.

Speaker 2 30:35

There was interesting something else at play.

Speaker 30:37

I I run the marathon. I think you may know. When I got the job to direct it, then I was like, now you run it last, right?

Speaker 2 30:46

Yeah.

Speaker 30:46

So what happened is I took the job, but I was like, I'm gonna break my streak. I said, my game, my rules, right? I'm at the finish line, I'm high five and all the runners. And I was full of something I tell everyone not to be full of. Self-pity. I was like, oh, woe is me. Even though they're all excited and they're finishing, I'm like, this isn't good. I don't feel good. I tapped a police officer on the shoulder. I said, officer, you do me a favor. He goes, What? I said, Well, you drive me back to the start. He goes, Why? Did you forget something? I said, Yeah, forgot to run. Drew me back to the start, eight o'clock at night. I took off. I finished at 11 o'clock at night, dead last, obviously. And I ran it that way for 36 years in a row at night. You know, and then people started joining me and everything else. So it was great. It was very it was it was it was it became a tradition. People would stay on their lawns or on their porches, you know, doing their thing.

Speaker 1 31:41

Here comes Steve. Here comes Dave.

Speaker 31:42

Here comes it's funny because one time a guy screaming at me, he goes, Hey, why don't you pick it up? They all went by two hours ago. Why don't you pick it up, you slug? And the other guy gives him an elbow and goes, Hey, leave them alone. That's the race director.

Speaker 2 31:58

Director. Director. Just like a I was like, okay, I'm vindicated.

Speaker 32:01

They finally know who I am after doing this for 30 years.

Finish Strong Foundation And Advice

Speaker 2 32:04

Oh, wow. As we wrap up, I know you you do other things, obviously. Or you run a company that executes large-scale events, which we're excited to work with you on this year. Um, you've written four books. You're a motivational speaker. Having spent this last 30 minutes with you, I'm I can see why. Like I want to go sign up for a marathon now, but I won't. Uh, but talk a little bit about the other areas of your work.

Speaker 32:28

Yeah, I mean, right now I'm beginning to focus a lot on my own foundation. It's called the Dave McGilly Finish Strong Foundation. So the three books I children's books I've uh written is Dream Big, because when I was little, I was little, but I had big dreams, and I still do. Running Across America, because I ran across America, and Finish Strong, which is the a book on the seven continent event. And um, in the back of each book is what's called the Dream Big Marathon Challenge. So I challenge kids not to just read the book and put it down and go play ping pong, but read the book and a call to action. I want them to read 26 books, run 26 miles, and do 26 acts of kindness. Because I think that's the three pillars of at least of my life. It's health and fitness, staying healthy as much as I can, education, literacy, and then philanthropy, goodwill, given back. The three pillars of life. And I'm trying to teach kids. Right now, thousands of kids across America are doing the dream big marathon challenge. I also give out grants, and we give running blades to kids with prosthetics. So some little kid might have lost a limb, but that doesn't mean he can run or play basketball or she, you know. I give him a uh a running blade, a blade, all of a sudden they become an athlete. You know, so I've been given out hundreds of those blades throughout kids across the country and stuff. So I'm focused a lot on my own foundation. I have a I'm writing another book. I've done the Iron Man triathlon in Hawaii 10 times. So now I'm running a book on the Iron Man, a kid's Iron Man, I am an Iron Kid. I'm running another sequel to my autobiography. I mean, the list goes on and on and on. So fantastic.

Speaker 2 34:16

What message do you have for the runners this year? Um, let's talk about first timers first.

Speaker 34:22

I think I think the first thing they have to do when they're standing on the starting line is just pause and be grateful that you have your health and that you're there. Because a lot of other people would like to be there, but don't get the chance. So no matter what the outcome is, just know how fortunate you are to be there. In terms of running it, Boston is all about patience because again, the first 10 miles is you know about a three or four hundred uh foot drop, and that can wreak havoc on your quads and your legs. So by the time you reach the real hills and climbing your toast, and it could be just really nasty the last five, six miles if you don't run it. The best way to run the Boston Marathon is to know the course. If you live around here, the best thing you can do is train on the course. Know where the hills are, the downhills, the uphills, the flats, know your strategy going in. A lot of times I say to people, what do you think you'll run for a time? Oh, I don't know. You have to know. How do you not know when the gun fires? When the gun fires, what pace are you taking off at? Right, right. Right? So you have to know, and that you need to learn that in your training. So everything that you do in your training, you learn and you take that learning and you bring it to the race and don't change anything.

Speaker 2 35:48

That's amazing. Well, how do people learn more about you, your foundation, and the Boston Marathon?

Speaker 35:54

Well, there's three websites dmsesports.com, there's Dave McGillivray.com, and there's DaveMcGillivray Foundation.org.

Speaker 2 36:04

Okay.

Speaker 36:05

So the foundation, me personally, and the business.

Speaker 2 36:08

And the business, great. And the marathon website?

Speaker 36:10

B-A-A-B-A.org.

Speaker 2 36:12

Okay, good. Well, we will see you out there on the course this year. We're so excited. And uh you've been extraordinary. It's been an absolute pleasure to speak with you today. Thank you. Thank you.

Speaker 36:22

And keep up the great work in bringing people to Boston because it's the greatest city in America. Thank you. We agree.

Speaker 2 36:28

Looking to find more Boston stories, go to meetboston.com and don't forget to share and subscribe to the Boston Found Podcast.