Picture Book Podcast
Picture Book Podcast is a weekly podcast where host Chris Marland chats with independent authors about their work. If you are interested in hearing from authors who have self-published their books and especially intrigued in their process then this is the podcast for you.
Picture Book Podcast
From Chalkboard to Chapter: An Interview with Jude Lennon
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In this episode, Chris sits down with former teacher turned award-winning author and storyteller, Jude Lennon. From her early days in the classroom to the creation of her beloved storytelling mascot Lamby, Jude shares her inspiring journey into the world of children’s literature and beyond.
Chris and Jude dive into the stories behind her popular picture books, explore the themes of kindness, mindfulness, and adventure that run through her work, and offer an exclusive peek at what’s coming next — including her upcoming titles and a return to fiction for older readers.
Whether you're a fellow writer, an aspiring storyteller, or just love a good origin story, Jude's passion, warmth, and creativity will leave you feeling inspired.
Hello, I'm Chris Marland and you're listening to Picture Book Podcast. In this episode, I'll be interviewing author Jude Lennon. I'm delighted to say that I am now joined by author Jude Lennon. Jude, thank you very much for joining me on the show today.
SPEAKER_01Oh, thanks for having me. It's a pleasure.
SPEAKER_00So can you please tell our listeners first who you are and what your background is regarding reading?
SPEAKER_01Yes. So my name's Jude, Jude Lennon. I live in Liverpool, grew up in Southport on the northwest coast. And for 18 years, I was a teacher. So I've always been heavily involved in books and writing and very passionate about children having access to books and writing. So I was always writing books. for the children in my class and now for the last 10 years I've been running my own storytelling business called Little Lamb Tales and I've also been writing my own books as well under my own name so everything although I'm no longer at the chalk face still heavily involved in literacy activities and I go into schools an awful lot and still work with primary schools across well across the country really so um yeah wherever whoever books me yeah
SPEAKER_00Can you share with us your journey from being a teacher to becoming a full-time
SPEAKER_01author? As I said, I was always writing for the children in my class, Christmas plays, stories, jingles, poems, all kinds of stuff. And I was teaching. I taught in London for 11 years and I was teaching down there. And the head teacher came and said, right, we're going to be filming because we're working with Roehampton University and they want to film one of the teachers doing good teaching. We've chosen you, Jude. And I was like... Are you mad? I'm right. Okay, great. And a panic wrote a story, a rhyming story to go with the topic of the seaside called Pirate Jack. And the people from Roehampton came in and at the end, the cameraman came over and went, that was great. Are you going to get it published? And I was like, huh? What? I was like, oh, do I not just keep it in a drawer and let it go dusty? Is that not what I do? And then later the same week, my head teacher said, are you not thinking of getting some of your work published? And I was like, oh, hello. So that was really what made me start to look at options for start to send stuff off. But really the catalyst really for me looking at it properly was once I've moved back up to the Northwest and I entered a competition. to write a story about Winnie the Pooh visiting the local area. And Jamie Theakson had gone onto the telly to tell everybody about this competition. And I wrote it and basically I won. So I am the Disney Winnie the Pooh Laureate for the Northwest of England. And because they've never run the competition again, I can still claim to have the title. And that story, winning that competition really kind of was the pivotal moment because one of the judges who'd been there, who decided which stories were going to be read over in America at Disney said to me she said you've got to promise me that you're going to still try to get published and I made her a promise and less than a year later my first book was published so yeah so that was pivotal so that was kind of how a whistle-stop tour of how I stopped being a teacher who loved writing and became an author who loved storytelling.
SPEAKER_00No, that's truly remarkable to hear. And I'm hoping a lot of teachers or anyone who has written a book in the past, I'm hoping that they listen to this thinking, yeah, that book that I wrote a few years ago that's been in my drawer for so many years, maybe I should get that published. But I've come across... Dust
SPEAKER_01it off.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, yeah, dust it off, yeah. Get a house on it and then get it published because I've... I've come across so many teacher friends who have said, you know, they've written a book. They feel a bit anxious about getting it published because I think they're worried that people aren't going to like it. But I think like from the experience you had, when you have that encouragement from someone and you had teacher, but also that cameraman as well saying to you, yeah, this is really good. Get it published. That gives you that confidence. Say, yeah, this is good
SPEAKER_01enough.
UNKNOWNYeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, definitely. And what's interesting is that, you know, I always say to children, I go in and said, never worry about showing your writing to your teachers because they just want to make it the best story it can be. And yet, as adults, we still worry about showing our writing to others. So we could take a lesson. Everybody could take a lesson from that, you know, that... you know just you've got you'll never know if you're a good writer if you don't sit down and write and put stuff out there for people to read so you've just got to just go for it sometimes
SPEAKER_00yeah absolutely well i'm a teacher and i have had a few children in the past who've come to me saying i've written a short story and no matter even if the story is just a page or half page i will share it with the rest of the class because i'm thinking this is important that this child's gone away and written a short story and they want to show it to everyone and that is how we're going to encourage more offers come through, like the offers of tomorrow, by telling them, yeah, share your story with everyone and pick up that pencil and paper and just write. So I want to talk a bit now about your publishing company, which is called Little Lamb Tales. Can you talk a bit more about how all that started?
SPEAKER_01Well, I don't actually have a publishing company. Little Lamb Publishing is just my, what we call an imprint. So on the back of my books, there is my Little Lamb Publishing logo. So that's my imprint that I publish under, but that's because I'm an independent author. So I haven't, that's my imprint. So I don't actually run a publishing company, but I use assisted publishing services called Talk Publishing.
UNKNOWNOkay.
SPEAKER_01And they make sure that my books are sort of done to industry standard, but as an independent author. And I think that's really important if you're going to be putting... your work out there because I mean you know lots of people may dream of getting the big publishing deal and that that's wonderful to aim to that but the realistic chance of that happening is very low especially in children's fiction unless you are a celebrity author the chance of you getting and I use the word author loosely um we could have a whole of the debate about that one um so unless you are in that situation the opportunities for new authors in the children's literature field are very virtually non-existent. So you've got to go indie or a hybrid or a small publishing company. But you've got to make sure that the quality of what you're putting out there is up to industry standard. So that's what I do. But I work very closely with publishing. I'm one of the team there. I run writing retreats for them and courses and things like that. So I am very closely linked. So I know a little bit about how it works in the... to do that side of the publishing thing, but I don't personally run a publishing company myself. That's just the name of my imprint. So that's something for anyone listening to take away, that if you are going to independently do your books, you will need an imprint name, which is just the name that you, so it might be, you know, yours might be Marsland Books or something, you know what I mean? You just choose whatever's relevant for you. And because I've got the lambs, it made sense.
SPEAKER_00I want to ask you, what challenges have you encountered in the transition from becoming a teacher to writing and getting your books published?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I mean, I think the biggest challenge is, well, it's deciding how you want to publish. I think that's really important. If your dream is to go for the big publishing deal, then you have to do certain things differently to how I've done it. You have to go and find an agent. You have to submit. You have to be prepared to wait and wait and wait a long time. So I think that's really important to decide that. how you envisage your publishing working. So I went indie. And that's great in terms of I get to decide lots of things that I wouldn't be able to decide if I was going with a traditional publisher. I get to decide when my book's going to be published. I get to decide who my illustrator's going to be. I get to decide the final say on the content and the title and everything like that. But the biggest challenge by far is marketing. That is absolutely the biggest challenge. I mean, writing-wise, the challenge is always trying to find time and to make time for it. Because although all of my living is done through writing-related activities, I don't always have time to sit down and write just for... Right. You know, to get my next book done because I've got other things I'm doing. So I think time is always one, but the marketing, absolutely that. And just that was such a learning curve for me. And also, I guess the other learning curve for me, if you're staying in teaching and writing, then this won't apply to you. But if you're coming out of teaching. It's such a different world because everything's done for you in teaching. Any job that you've got where your national insurance is paid for, your pension's done, taken care of, and then suddenly you're responsible for doing all this. And it's like... Oh, right. Okay. I had no idea about any of this. So that was a steep learning curve as well. So I think those three things have probably been the biggest challenges. And also, I suppose the other thing is, it's getting people to take a chance on indie authors. I think they stay safe. They stay in the safe lane. Oh, chum, chum, chum. I'll go and buy the books that I know the kids have read for 20, 30, 40, 50 years because they sell well. And they're classics for a reason. There's no denying that. But it's just sometimes going give me a chance I know I write books too so that that is definitely a challenge so yeah
SPEAKER_00yeah and that's one of the reasons why I've done this podcast to help promote independent authors because we've got so many talented authors out there and we've not heard of them because yeah they're independent it's hard for them to advertise the work that they've created and it's a shame really because I mean all the authors I've interviewed they've just had these truly unique experiences books that have great um messages behind them and love the illustrations as well and the writing is just so well written there's a great red rhythm to it and and it's a shame that we that they're not really noticed as much
SPEAKER_01no absolutely and you know the indie world is very grateful for for podcasters like yourself who do kind of take the time to focus
SPEAKER_00on
SPEAKER_01really turn the spotlight on us for a change, which is nice. I
SPEAKER_00want to talk a bit more about marketing. You said marketing then is one of the more challenging areas for independent authors. I completely agree with that. But I know that you do a lot of school visits. I wonder if you could talk more about your school visit.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, well, I always knew that even though I was coming away from the short face as a teacher, I was always going to be heavily involved in education because it's just me. And I absolutely love doing school visits. For me, it's a great way to connect with my readers, but also more importantly, it's a great way to show children that reading and writing are wonderful, magical things and can lead to great things as well. And I think that's really important. And also for them to see that I'm not a celebrity, I'm not famous, I'm just a normal person. And to see that if I can do it, then so can they. And I always say that at the end of the talk. Who knows, maybe in a few years' time, you may find yourself standing in an assembly talking to children about how you became an author, an illustrator, an editor. And I think that's such an important message to say to children, this could be you. This is a possibility for you. And I think it's raising aspirations, and I think that's really important. But also, crucially... I always talk, it always gives me a chance to talk about how I love reading for pleasure. And as you probably are aware, the National Literacy Trust, you know, last year, just towards the end of the year, revealed that reading for pleasure is at an all time low. So I think we've got to sort of show that reading is brilliant, it's fun, it's escapism, it's education, it's learning, it's, it's, it gives you comfort, you know, it's readings for everything. And I think that's part of the reason why doing the school visits is so important to me.
SPEAKER_00That you need to find that book or books that appeal to the children. And I've been guilty of this. And I feel like some teachers do this where they pick a book that they loved when they were a child and they read it to the class thinking that the children will love it as well. And they forget that times have changed. We've moved on now. There are going to be different books that they like and Goosebumps Dogman Right. Okay. So when you get that, then they enjoy picking up the book more to read.
SPEAKER_02And
SPEAKER_00then you discover other books that are similar to Dog Man that they want to read. And that's it. Then you've got to find that book first that's going to hook them. And then you can find other books similar to them. That's key, I think.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely. And also it's exposing them to the fact that, you know, it doesn't have to be a book, a traditional book. It could be comics. It can be graphic novels. It can be fiction books, factual books, poetry. You know, it's the whole thing, isn't it? It's everything. It's print, print with meaning and enlightenment. And I think that's really important for kids. Yeah,
SPEAKER_00definitely. Yeah, absolutely. Because I remember a few years ago, I had a parent say to me, I'm concerned because he just wants to read the Beano. And I'm thinking, well, that's reading. It's a comic strip, but it's got words. It's still reading. And we need to remember that. Like I say, you know, graphic novels, they still count as reading. Even if it's a non-fiction book, it is still reading. There's no way to say it's just a story.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, definitely. Definitely.
SPEAKER_00I wonder if you could talk to me now about the importance of storytelling in your opinion and how that is crucial for a child's development.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, well... Storytelling, reading and writing are just intrinsically linked. That's just, you know, the thing. But I think storytelling has got to come first because if you can't listen to stories and take in words and vocabulary, you can't tell stories. And if you can't tell stories, you don't understand how stories work. And so storytelling is really important because it tells children about the language of stories, the... how stories are set up. So there's a beginning, there's a middle and an end. There's normally a payoff. There's a journey of the story. There's characters. So it's so, so important. And I think as well, the importance of storytelling is that if you're a parent who struggles with literacy yourself, you can still tell oral stories to your children, support them with their early reading skills in that way. And also again, for parents who maybe don't read English as their first language, but they can still tell stories either in their mother tongue or in their in English you know you can still be engaged in reading activities and supporting your child without you know if you're stressing about I don't know how to pronounce that word it doesn't matter if you're telling the story so storytelling is absolutely crucial for reading and it's something we do it's you know it's the oldest form of entertainment since we all sat around in caves with fires we told stories and a lot of them were the fables the morals passed down messages you know this is how you go hunting this is how you gather this is whatever and it's also something that links us you know uniquely around the world every culture has got a spoken word tradition and its own traditional stories whether it's um Aboriginal community in Australia or the First Natives community in North America or India or Norse language we've all got our own storytelling histories and that's what brings us together as people because there's always a creation story there's always a story of you know where the water came from and everything like that so I think it's just a really good it's a way it's a great way to unite us as well and I think the other important thing for storytelling is that children do they tell stories So it's something that's familiar. They understand the rules of storytelling, which I think is really important for them.
SPEAKER_00yeah absolutely it reminds me of like when I used to go to drama club and we go in a circle then someone would start a story and then someone else next to you would continue the story and it would go on throughout the circle and how entertaining that is for children because it's like they are in charge of the story it's not the teacher telling the story they have any idea where it's going next it reminds me as well of those books you know those books you choose choose your own adventure Yes, that's the one. Yeah. I love those books because it really inspires children to think what their story could be. They choose the different elements, but then that helps them create their own story.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, no, definitely. Definitely.
SPEAKER_00I wonder if you could talk a bit more about now that the books that you have written.
SPEAKER_01Yes. So going back to the pirate story I wrote, that is actually now one of my books, Pirate Lammy and His Woolly Crew. But it sat in a dusty drawer for a long time and it didn't go anywhere. But the first book I had published actually was The Dragon of Allerton Oak, which is set in my local park. And that started off as a story, a told actually. It started off as an oral story. There's a wonderful oak tree in that park and it's all gnarled. You keep saying it's a thousand years old. It's not that old. It's about $500 years old, you think, but it's, you know, it looks dramatic. And as I was walking past it one day, I said, oh yeah, a dragon's done that to that tree. And I told it at a festival. And at the end, a little boy said, are you going to put that story in a book? There you go. Okay. So that was the first one. But actually the vast majority of my books feature my storytelling mascots, Lammy, Flossie, Alfie, Lily, and Cadero. And it's, they're a bit like, now this will age me. They're a bit like the Mr. Ben stories, I suppose. So they get, they get dressed up enough. They go and have different adventures and different things. So there's one in space, there's astronaut Lammy, there's Floga with Flossie, which is all about keeping fit, pirate Lammy, salamalot, Lammy goes camping, a Christmas collection, and then a Tales from the Travel Pouch where we went off to South America and Lammy and Flossie came with us. So the vast majority of the children's books I write feature the lambs and they come with me into school. So the kids see the lambs and in their costumes and they get very excited about that. And what I've noticed is we've want to do the author talks for sort of years five and six and I say to them look I my books are not for your age but I'm here to talk to you about what it's life is like as an author so you can still get things from it and I say I'm going to read you a story they all join in With the actions, they all go back to being five. And I think it's just nice for them to have a time when it's just like, we can just enjoy a story. So that's nice. And also the other book I wrote, which I'm really proud of, is the That's Our Home, which is an eco book. It's all about keeping the beaches clean. And that's gone down really well in schools. And quite a few schools have written to me to let me know they've done topics around it, which is nice. That's nice to hear.
SPEAKER_00No, absolutely. That's great when your book is the key text for the topic that they're doing. That's lovely. And I love it when, you know, any topic that any schools do when they can relate it to a book. I think it's always important that wherever we're learning it in school. Yeah. try and relate it to a book to help promote that love of reading and just show how many books there are out there.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_00And I wanted to say as well, I love the idea that the fact that you've got those characters there and like you say, they're a bit like Mr. Ben where they have different costumes and that would just mean so that there is a variety of adventures they can go on. And for the kids, I mean, because they're featured in your stories just means like they think, wow, What we mentioned again to go on next is like there's unlimited possibilities, which I think is a great idea.
SPEAKER_01No, definitely. And I think it's what's really nice is sometimes the children will write stories for me. And at the end of the day, I'll be presented with these lovely little pictures and stories that the kids have written about Lammy and Flossie and the rest of them, which is really lovely. And I think that is just amazing. That's great because it means that they've taken on board the stories and it's fired up something in their imagination, which is, you know, you can't ask for more really.
SPEAKER_00It's going back to what you're saying, Forza, you know, all of you could be authors one day, you know, but giving them that little spark of interest, which I think is great. And I want to talk now regarding your books. Am I right in thinking that you've worked with different illustrators? Yes.
SPEAKER_01Yes, I have, yes. I've worked with a few different illustrators and it's such an important relationship, that between author and illustrator, because, well, the illustrations make or break a story, in my opinion. You know, my words are important, but the illustrations are crucial. And it's all the little hidden details that the illustrators put in. So the illustrator I've worked with the most is Holly, Holly Bushnell. She's done all the Lamy stuff. illustrations Chris Roddenhurst did the dragon and Lisa Williams did the that's our home but yeah every illustrator I've worked with it's been a similar kind of thing I always send them the story and depending on the story at the time, I'll either give them a little bit of detail. Like with Chris, he said, well, tell me what, what do you want? What color do you want the dragon to be? And tell me a little bit about what's in there. With Lammy and Flossie, obviously Holly knows what they look like. So that's fine. And Lisa sort of, I had a lot of that conversation with Lisa. She said, which seagull? Do you want the seagull with feathers going this way? A seagull with feathers going that way? You'd be amazed the discussions you can have about how many, you know, different ways a character can look. But it's great. And it's been a really lovely learning curve for me to see how that relationship works between an author and illustrator. And the morning you get the email that says the illustrations are going to be landing in your inbox, it's like Christmas. You're like, and it's so exciting. I can't tell you how exciting it is. It's just brilliant. And they're just brilliant because they just nail it. I mean, occasionally I might say, well, maybe change the colour a little bit, but nine times out of 10, it's like they've crawled inside my head And seeing what I envisioned and it's on the paper, which is, you know, it's brilliant.
SPEAKER_00Because you feel then that your story is coming more to life when you see the illustration matching with your writing. It's like something that you created is now coming more to life. Yes. Do you find with the different illustrators that you worked with that all of them have a unique style that works well for stories that you've written?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, absolutely. So, yes. So you kind of, you know, in your mind, if I'm going to do this type of story, then I'll go this. to that illustrator to do it. So yeah, no, absolutely. But they're also, they're all very adaptable. So, you know, especially Lisa. Lisa's been in the business for a long, long time. And she's done everything from sort of manga style illustrations to the illustrations up there and ink penning, you know, so she's done a whole range. But they are, you know, they all do have their unique style, but very versatile. And I'm in total awe. I can't draw for Toffee, so I'm in absolute awe.
SPEAKER_00You're absolutely right, though, about the collaboration between the author and the illustrator. That is absolutely key because I think when they do work so well together you can see some truly remarkable come out from the book they put together like how the writing and the illustration just gel so well together yeah so I think it is really important I mean you've got those very talented authors who are able to illustrate them as well like for me what comes to my mind is Oliver Jeffers the fact that he can write so well but also he's such a good illustrator but there are some other authors who rely on those illustrators so yeah the communication is key to that
SPEAKER_01oh yeah no definitely definitely
SPEAKER_00just wanted to go back to um talking about your school visits now can you talk about that can you talk about one um particularly rewarding experience that you had when promoting your books at school or anything really where you promote your book anything that was truly rewarding to you
SPEAKER_01gosh there's been so many over the years but um i'm going to talk about one that happened very recently actually just before christmas um i was invited into a school i've gone there about two or three times now to do creative writing workshops um with year one six I think it was or year five anyway and at the beginning of the session I always say oh you know Who's not keen on writing? And the few hands went up and this one lad just went, oh, it's not my thing at all. I just don't like it. I said, that's okay. Don't worry. Well, maybe by the end, you know. Anyway, and I do these whole series of activities where we do a lot of playing. We do a lot of speaking. We do a lot of mind mapping. We do a lot of, there's writing, but they don't know the writing. And at the end, the young man who said he hated writing stood up and read his story in front of everybody. And I said, and how do you feel about writing? And he went, It's okay. And I was like, I'll take that. I will take that as a win. So yeah, absolutely. So those moments, they're gold. Those moments are just pure gold. So yeah, I think, and I think that's the key. And I feel really sorry for teachers now because I think the curriculum is so... narrow and so defined that I think you know an awful lot of teachers I know would much prefer to have a more open approach like I do where you let them play and let them do but the time is there's just no time to do that but it has such brilliant results you know you get the kids who just don't realize they're writing and you kind of trick them and they don't they're like you mean I've been writing all morning like yep you've been writing all morning No, no, you have. No, honestly, you have. So, yeah, so those are really rewarding moments, definitely.
SPEAKER_00Like they say, Nan, it is writing, but not in the way you normally do it in the classroom. That's the key to that there. Going back to what you said there about that year six child, the fact that he said, it's okay. To be honest, for a year six child, that's probably the best compliment you'll get because I've worked with some year six children in the past and they're not really the ones say oh wow that was amazing thank you so much yeah
SPEAKER_01no no that okay I'm taking that with me
SPEAKER_00no but I thought that was interesting what you said before about playing there and you're right I don't think we have the opportunity to do that anymore I mean with the EYFS curriculum absolutely you know play is key I'm a big supporter in play but I feel like when we go into the national curriculum that play is taken away it's all about you know sitting on seats and playing learning about the structure of the story, which obviously has its benefits. They don't understand how to put a story together, but you're right, playing is so, so important. I mean, they can be so creative by just having that time to play and like make up these stories.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely. I mean, I was head of early years for a long time. And personally, I think the early years curriculum should run up to year six. You know, that kind of approach where you're looking at, you're not putting all the focus on maths and literacy. It's the whole thing. And every child's got their chance to shine in whatever topic they, you know. 100%, I couldn't agree more with you.
UNKNOWNYeah.
SPEAKER_00I just wanted to ask now, have you got any upcoming projects coming up that you want to talk about?
SPEAKER_01Gosh, yeah. Well, funnily enough, one of the meetings I had about today was I run a CIC as well called Build a Book and with a fellow author, Natalie. And in that we create creativity and literacy boxes and packs, which we distribute across the Liverpool city region. And to date, we've delivered about 35,000. of these literacy packs and activities and so our latest one is planet pack and so um there's a storybook and an activity book in here so what we're hoping to do this year is um a face-to-face sort of family festival fun day planet pack fun day so we're going to be re imagining some of the content in here and revisiting the story to see if that needs editing and changing at all. So that's a big project that we're going to be working on. So that's, yeah, that'll be coming in August. And in terms of me, the next Lammy book will be coming out this year as well. So that's gone off to beta readers this week to get their feedback. And actually the Disney story that I wrote is all about... poo enjoying a bird's eye view over Liverpool and every school I've been into and read this to, they're like, oh, can I get a copy of the book? It was never meant to be a book that it was a commemorative piece. So I've reimagined the story with the lambs in Liverpool and it takes them to all the landmarks around the city. So that's coming out this year. So yeah, in the summer.
SPEAKER_00Well, I would definitely purchase my copy of that. That sounds great. just truly great. I personally think Liverpool is the greatest city in Britain. I wholeheartedly mean that. My wife and I and our daughter, we take regular trips to Liverpool because we just think it's such a fascinating city. We love walking around the docks. I mean, there are so many iconic part of liverpool and when you go there it's just like that really friendly atmosphere about it so it's lovely to see that there's a book coming out that's talking about liverpool and having this this famous uh fictional character going down with paul i love it i love it
SPEAKER_01yeah so um no it'll be nice it's been nice to rewrite it because obviously i wrote this one gosh was 10 years ago now so it's a long time ago so there's things I wanted to change and things and other buildings I haven't added any landmarks there were certain landmarks I hadn't added in and obviously Radio City Tower is now no longer Radio City Tower so I had to go back and change that one it's like crikey so um yeah so no that was that's been nice and also the other thing is not children's but I do write for adults as well so I'm finally this is my award-winning novel and finally going to hopefully this year make a start on that tricky second novel that's what i'm hoping
SPEAKER_00right you sound like such a busy bee at the moment so all those projects come out but that no that's that's great to hear that you got all those projects lined up as well um Do you find it difficult, and you say you'll talk about your next novel, do you find it sometimes difficult to go from picture books to those written novels?
SPEAKER_01No, not particularly, because when I released Kintsugi, which is the novel, I also released the Christmas collection for the Lammies. So I can box those two off because they're so different. You know, they're not overlapping at all. I think if I was being commissioned to write stuff and I was trying to do a novel at the same time, that I would find more tricky. But no, they're just totally different beasts and I can box those off quite separately. Yeah, so it's not too bad for that. But I mean, you'll know yourself because once you've written the story and you've kind of got it in your head, you don't need, you can kind of park it and then move on to and hand it over to be illustrated and focus on something else. So yeah, so this one's kind of parked now so I can start thinking about the tricky second novel.
SPEAKER_00Oh, I wish you all the best that next novel. Thank you. And I want to ask, what advice would you give to any people out there who want to become authors, but they're not sure where to start?
SPEAKER_01OK, I think spend a lot of time in bookshops, reading, read around the age group you're hoping to write for and get a feel for what's out there. Not just the well-known authors, but the lesser known authors as well. Get a feel for that. But I think the most important thing is to... well, start, start writing. That's the really key thing. But I think as well, the biggest thing is if you decide to go down the indie route, make sure you're aware of certain things. Because obviously I do mine through taught publishing, but it does come with a cost. I have to pay for my illustrator. I have to pay for editing services. I have to pay for all those to make sure it looks good quality. And I know a lot of people who go indie, they do it because they can't afford to do that. And I totally get that. You have to budget. But I would say the things you cannot scrimp on, you cannot at all scrimp on, editing and a cover and your illustrators that they're the three things you have got to pay for um You know, the other stuff you can kind of, you know, you can work out how to upload it to Amazon yourself. You can work out how to print cheaper copies by shopping around and finding printers near to you that do you a good deal. You can scrimp on other things, but you cannot scrimp on editing a good cover and good illustrations. I would say that's the thing I would say. Another thing I would say as well that's really important is, if it's at all possible, be in a writing group. I run... I'm also part of a writing group who've been meeting once a month for about seven or eight years. And that will, my novel would not have happened without that group because it makes you write about different themes that you would normally write on. So I think definitely, definitely. join some kind of writing group, whether it's online or whether it's a group of people nearby who can join in. Yeah, I think they're the key things that I would say to everybody. But just give it a go. Pick up that pen and get writing.
SPEAKER_00I like the idea you said there about writing groups. And I'm sure a lot of people have not thought about that before. And it's true because if you're... Just writing a story in your living room and then that's where you're keeping it. It's not going to get noticed. And you can share it with your friends, but you need to share it with the outside world. That's where you're really going to get that. People noticing it, but also give you that feedback that you need to help improve your book.
SPEAKER_01No, definitely. Well, Mike, funny enough, my writing... is called Pick Up Your Pen for that reason. And there's a mixture in there of the group members of sort of children's fiction, nonfiction, memoir, novel, everything. And what's really interesting is four of the members have got their first drafts finished because they've been in the club. Because, you know, we said, right, okay, It's a supportive, encouraging group. And they've all said, you know, if I hadn't been in the group, this wouldn't have happened. I'd have just procrastinated and left it and said, oh, no, I'm not good enough or whatever. And the reason that the group works is because it's not just me who's supportive. It's everybody in that group who's giving encouragement and saying, oh, yeah, can you read it for us? Yeah, we're going to have, you know, send us your chapter. We'll all give a bit of feedback. We'll all, you know, and... That encouragement, you can't put a price on that. It's so important. You know, it's kind of like having your cheerleaders to kind of make sure you get it done.
SPEAKER_00Well, I hope all the listeners will take that on board because I think that's a very useful tip, that is. I want to ask as well, where can we find you? Have you got a website that we could go to?
SPEAKER_01Yes, you can find me. It's littellampublishing.co.uk. If you're on the Book of Faces on Facebook, it's Jude Lennon Author or Little Lamb Tales. And Instagram is Jude Lennon Books. So yes, you can find me in all of those places. And my website is full of all the stuff. I do wear many hats. So most of my hats are covered on the website.
SPEAKER_00And I'm right in thinking that your website is where we can purchase one of your books as well as Amazon.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, the books are all on there. Some of them you can order directly from, well, it says on there, you can either order them directly from me and you can get them signed with a little message or you can get them from the Big Long River. But I do try and promote indie bookshops as well and getting them directly from the author. So yes, so my books are also in independent bookshops and independent shops as well, which I think is a nice way to support them too.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely, because we have bookshops like The Works or Waterstones, which is great, don't get me wrong, for buying books, but those independent bookshops, there's something about those bookshops you go into and it just feels nice and cosy, but it just feels like that unique experience that you don't get in all of those bookshops like Waterstones and The Works.
SPEAKER_01Actually, that's another tip I would say as well that's really important. Once you've got a book... that's, you know, about to go or you've published, reach out to those local independent bookshops near you. Don't just go in and say, here's my book, will you stock it? Go in, buy books from them, strike up a conversation. Say, I've got a book coming out in a few months. Would you be interested in maybe doing a little event? You know, because that's a really great way to sort of have an instant... or an instant stockist who was going to, you know, give you a bit of shelf space, which is great.
SPEAKER_00So I'll include all of Julene's website information as well as Instagram information so you know where to buy her books, but also you'll know where you can find out more about the work she does in schools as well as other areas of reading. I'd like to say a big thank you for Julene joining me on the show today. Ju, thank you very much.
SPEAKER_01Oh, thank you, Chris. It's been an absolute pleasure. I've really enjoyed chatting to you. It's been nice to talk books and stories and words.
SPEAKER_02thank
SPEAKER_00you for listening to this episode of picture book podcast please consider following the show and leaving a review and join me next time where i'll talk about some of my favorite picture books that have been released so far this year
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