Discover Fresh Perspectives
A series of short conversations, sometimes with myself, usually with others, that provide an opportunity to see every day events through different perspectives. The intent is to open up new possibilities for personal and organizational growth!
Discover Fresh Perspectives
Beyond Outfits: Katherine Lazaruk on Image, Authenticity, and Personal Brand
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Welcome to another episode of Discover Fresh Perspectives! Today, David Gouthro is joined by image consultant Katherine Lazaruk for a deep dive into the world of personal style, image, and the powerful relationship we have with our closets. With over 17 years of experience, Katherine goes beyond fashion trends and surface-level advice, helping clients align their outward appearance with their true selves and personal aspirations.
In this conversation, Katherine explains her unique, transformative approach—rooted in character, congruence, and choice—and shares how image work can be a profound act of self-care and self-expression. Whether through group coaching or bespoke, individualized programs, she empowers people to discover their signature style, overcome challenges around confidence and visibility, and even navigate major life transitions.
Tune in as David and Katherine explore common myths about image, practical scenarios, and actionable insights—from overcoming closet frustration to tips for thrifting with purpose. It's an inspiring discussion that challenges the notion of image as superficial, revealing how it can fuel our growth, visibility, and success.
A Bit About Katherine
Katherine Lazaruk believes that great style starts from within. Unlike traditional personal shoppers or stylists, she begins by exploring who her clients are, what they want in life, and the goals they wish to achieve.
Katherine takes into account their environment, industry, and lifestyle, guiding them to make clothing choices that support their ambitions. Her comprehensive approach ensures that each outfit is a true reflection of her clients’ unique personalities and helps them feel empowered in every aspect of their lives.
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You can connect with David Gouthro at:
- Website:https://davidgouthro.com/ (where you can also subscribe to my Blog)
- LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/davidgouthro/
NOTE: If you wish to join in the podcast fun, please click here to book your own episode with me: https://calendly.com/gouthro/podcast-pals!
Are you stuck in the same old routine at work? Do you find yourself hitting a creative wall, unable to see beyond your current perspective? It's time to break free and unlock the power of fresh perspectives. David Guthrow back yet again. And today I have the pleasure of having as my guest, Catherine Lazaruk. Welcome, Catherine.
SPEAKER_01Thank you, David. It's a pleasure to be here. Thanks for inviting me.
SPEAKER_00Well, Catherine, I heard you speak not too long ago, and we had a short conversation. I found what you were talking about was quite intriguing and probably something personally useful to me. So I thought it'd be great for some of my listeners to hear what you have to say. And what intrigued me is that you said that you're passionate about helping people change the relationships with their closet and themselves in the process. So, Catherine, what the heck do you mean by that?
SPEAKER_01I'm glad you were intrigued, first of all. Uh, it is an intriguing subject. I have been working in image consulting for approximately 17 years at this point. And what I've discovered over the years is that there's a lot more in the closet than clothes. So when I say I'm an image consultant, most people immediately jump to styling or fashion or, you know, some something in that world, personal branding. And the world that I live in is different from that. There are aspects of that that belong to my work. Um, people do certainly get great outfits after they work with me. But because I start with who you are as a person and what you want in the world, uh, and then I look at what your environment is doing to support you and, you know, what your industry is and where you live, those kinds of things. And then we look at the choices that you're going to make, the clothing you're going to wear that will support you in achieving your goals. It's more comprehensive than you might find if you go to a personal shopper or a traditional stylist.
SPEAKER_00So I have to say that I'm I'm thrilled about that, that it's more just the clothing, because those of you that are listening to this won't have any idea what the video looks like. But I actually have a red brick wall behind me, and I'm wearing a red plaid shirt, which, you know, just so that my my face may stand out and I blend into the into the brick. So thank goodness it's more than just the clothing. So, so Catherine, how do you go about working with someone? Well, you know, let's use me as an example, right? So people can actually imagine this. So I'd say, you know, uh, Catherine, I'm intrigued by what you do. I'd like to work with you. How do we get started?
SPEAKER_01So the first step with any program is to let people understand the different ways that I work. So one way that I work is I do a group cohort program, which is nine sessions. And it's basically a program to become your own stylist. Because I'm much more interested in teaching you the skill sets for you to do it yourself than for you to create a dependency on someone else to do it for you. And my other programs are one-to-one, fully bespoke, completely custom programs. And those programs are for people who really like personalized attention and who want more support while they are doing the things.
SPEAKER_00So sorry, I hate to be annoying about this, but I hear people use the word bespoke. And I bet there's some people that haven't got a clue what like what the heck is bespoke, because I've seen bespoke framers, bespoke. So maybe just say about that so people have a context to listen into this. What bespoke about your service?
SPEAKER_01Thank you for that. Because yeah, it's you're right. It's a word that not everybody would know. So in the clothing world, for example, if you buy a suit off the rack, that means it wasn't necessarily made for you. You go in, you get the suit, you leave. If you go in and buy a made-to-measure suit, that is a suit that comes in pieces, and then they put the pieces together to fit your various measurements and they produce a suit for you. So there's somewhat more tailoring to that suit, but it's not fully made for you. A fully bespoke program is where you go into a tailor, they take your measurements, they let you choose the fabric, they let you choose all of the details and fittings any way you like it. They let you design how that suit is going to arrive. They make the suit in a muslin, which is like a lower cost fabric, to give you an idea of what the suit is going to fit and feel and look like. They have several fittings when that you go to try things on to make sure the design is exactly correct. And then they produce the suit in the actual material. And then there is a series of fittings that happen to make sure that the suit fits you perfectly. So when I say bespoke in my world, it means that when you come in, the first thing we do is a discovery process where I sit down and I ask you an extensive list list of questions and listen extensively and take extensive notes about all of the things that you are hoping to do in the world. We talk about your challenges, um, and they could be challenges in your career, they could be challenges in your business, they could be life challenges because those things impact the way that you relate to your clothing, and your clothing might need to do different things for you based on what it is that you are challenged by and based on it is based on what it is you want to do in the world. And then we so I have this extensive list of questions, I have a discovery conversation with you, we review all of the list of questions, and then I actually put together a program for you that typically my bespoke clients go for six, nine, or twelve months with me, sometimes longer, depending on what they're working on. Um, and it's a combination of image work, but also coaching work. Because my one of my other streams of practice is executive coaching. Oh, wow. Okay. So it's more it's more application focused. So if someone wants image work, but they also want assistance. So for example, I would spend a VIP day actually shopping with my client and helping them find things that are going to support their journey. Whereas in my group programs, I'm not doing the shopping with you. I'll coach you around shopping behavior. I will celebrate your wins. I want you to show on camera or in the community what you're doing, but it's not something where I'm actually with you while that is going on.
SPEAKER_00So we've got the range of services from the group cohort where you work with a group for nine times to the bespoke, which is, I mean, tailored in the big T tailored way of doing those things.
SPEAKER_01And you know, it's like it's it's if you like groups, you would choose a group program. If you like one-to-one work, you would choose one-to-one work. That's the bespoke program.
SPEAKER_00So I uh sometimes my daughter has gone shopping with me, and usually it's a place that she likes to shop, like at thrift shops. And her way of shopping with me is that looks terrible. Why would you wear that? I presume it's a different approach that you take. But let's say that uh, you know, I'm not trying to get free consulting here. However, if you were to ask me, like to give some examples of two or three questions that you'd ask me, of the range that you'd ask just at the beginning, and I'll try to answer them as if I was a client. Just two or three to give people a flavor for that.
SPEAKER_01So the first question that I might ask you or is what's happening in your life right now that caused you to want to undergo this kind of work.
SPEAKER_00Okay. So my my answer, and this is all like totally transparent, right? So uh I am trying to kickstart my business. I've never had to go for business. It's always been by referral. And I'm very aware that I want to do things that I enjoy as opposed to just doing the things I that I've used to do for so many years. And now I kind of feel like I'd prefer to be gagged with a, you know, a hot, a hot spoon than do it. So it's kind of like relaunching. And I'm at an age where a lot of people have been retired for 10 or 15 years, and I can't wait for the next 10 or 15 years to just have as much impact as I can. So part of it is is how I create, you know, an appropriate image that that that fits me, but that might also be appealing to the kind of people that might like my services, if that if that makes sense.
SPEAKER_01Right. So what I hear in that is a real zest for the next 10 to 15 to 20 years, which is amazing. And there's a youthful vigor about that that's great. Although it's interesting when I say youthful, it's like nobody really knows that the back half is the best half by a long shot. So I'm hearing a lot of the zest for life in what you're sharing. I'm hearing also that what was working before isn't working now. Well or it's not, it's not that it's not working, but it's not working for you in the way that you would like it to work. And you want to do something a little bit different. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And then so my next follow-on question would be something like tell me where you're going and how is it different from where you've been well, in the broadest sense, where I'm going is uh to be proactive and and uh you know, let people know what I'm doing, what I want to do, rather than being reactive and just some people come to me and say they want this. And I say, okay. So going in terms of, you know, being being more out, being more out, being more out in the world about maybe being a little braver and a little bit more declarative, and not always being so focused on making sure that I'm like I'm accepted by someone that I don't really want to be accepted by just because okay, that's an interesting nugget.
SPEAKER_01So it sounds like you've been a bit of a yes man in your world in the past. And it's been helpful and useful for the people that you've said yes to. And it's not like you're saying yes to pro things you don't want to do, but it's more of a responsive as opposed to uh like a reactive as opposed to uh responsive or um a seeking out of things, seeking out of opportunities. They've you've just been receiving and receiving and receiving.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, like uh yes. And and this, I mean, I tend to think visually, so I I want to be more of a a lighthouse than a reflector, if that makes sense.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. So there's a magnetism or like a way shower piece that's interesting to you. Yeah. That you'd like to embrace now. Cool. And then I would go on to ask questions about your market. I would go on to ask questions about the kinds of services that you would like to offer. I would go on to ask questions about what you enjoy most about the work that you're proposing to do. I would ask questions about where you're planning to do this work, because if you're planning to do work like that, say for example, in New York, the standard is for your image is different than the standard for your image in Vancouver. Because geographically the two places are not the same. Or, for example, if you're doing all of your work in high finance, again, the standard is going to be different than if you're doing your work with retired folks that want to do something different with their lives, right? So it's it's it I would be digging into all of these particular nuances of you, of your work. And I would also ask you questions about your personal life as well. Things like, um, in your handling of your wardrobe, are you the kind of person that likes to do the sniff test? You're like, oh, I wore this yesterday. Oh, it's okay to wear it again today. Or are you the kind of person that wears something once and gets it cleaned right away? Like, so that tells me a little bit about your personality, but also tells me a little bit about how relaxed or how formal you are around the state of handling your clothing. So, first of all, those kinds of questions.
SPEAKER_00I hope those things are on a spectrum and not an either or. Like how how often do you sit? But the other thing that's occurring to me is this is uh quite what you're describing your process is quite a differentiator from what I've normally thought of of image consultants, where, you know, I'll I'll do your colors and you like better like this or that. Like it's so much, so much deeper. Like I like, wow.
SPEAKER_01Thank you. It's um I do do your colors as part of it, of course. But I classify that as a technical element of design that you need to know about. But before you can apply any technical element of design, colors, styles, lines, shapes, any of those things, you still need to understand why you are applying those things. Right. You need to understand how to apply them. And you can't understand how to apply them if we don't understand what it is you're actually trying to produce.
SPEAKER_00So the the term that I'd I'd use is that this is a transformative process as opposed to a transactional process where it's just one element, it's all it's the whole thing.
SPEAKER_01Exactly. And even in the cohort programs, we still do my so I have three C's that I operate by character, congruence, and choice. Character is the who you are, what you want. Congruence is do your insides match your outsides? So do you look like what you say you are? Do you walk the walk? And then the choices, if you look at your insides and outsides, and another part of congruence is also are you operating in the environment that actually suits you? Because I have had clients who say, for example, they're in finance, but they're really not very well suited to that environment. And so I have had clients leave jobs because of the work that we've done and find something that works better for them. So we look at the environment as well and how is it suiting you? And do you match the environment? Does the vibe match you? And then we look at the choices you're gonna make. So are you gonna challenge the expectations for the environment that you're in, or are you going to conform or somewhere along the spectrum, as you say? And are you gonna choose to wear colors that really look good on you, or do you really love a color that's completely outside of your palette? And then how are we gonna work with it to make it work for you in those cases? Because you're the expert on you, and I'm the person who comes in and says, okay, here's a menu of choices, and you can decide what's gonna work for you in your life.
SPEAKER_00So I'm loving the metaphor, just the phrase well suited, because it can be looked at so many different levels. Like, are you are you well suited for what you do? And so someone may look, may, may describe, well, yes, I do this job, I've got this MB, I've got this whatever. But well suited could also be about dress, but it also could be a more whole-body thing. So that's actually a huge question to start out with, uh, you know, to say it slowly and say, so do you believe you're well suited for what you do? And then that exploration could go in so many directions. I love that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's interesting. I I'm trying to think if I ask something like that directly. Often those kinds of things are revealed through the process because I can see energetically in somebody's being that they are tense, that they're closed off, that their vocal pitch changes when they speak about the work that they do, that their face lights up when they talk about something else. So it's often something where I'm observing and reflecting a lot of the time in the work that I do.
SPEAKER_00I'm I'm just thinking of a like a magnet to get people to be interested. And just the big question are you well suited for what you do? And then, you know, it's a different number of different ways to do that. Now working on marketing you, uh, Catherine. I hope that's okay.
SPEAKER_01Sure. I'll always take input.
SPEAKER_00So, so uh, Catherine, what are some of the things that you think people would be surprised at? Like, what are some of the myths about image and and uh the importance of really understanding it from a while you talked about um congruence and choice and sorry, what was the first one? I can't remember right character.
SPEAKER_02Character. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. What do you think people misunderstand or or what are the myths they hold that get in their way of having the image that they want to live into?
SPEAKER_01I think one of the biggest myths that I ran into is people believe that image is superficial, that it shouldn't matter. And I contend that image is surface, but it should never be superficial. And by that I mean ideally, in an ideal world, your image, how you show up in the world, how your energy is, what kind of work you're doing, all of that ideally would be a deep reflection of your soul, like who you are as a person. And to me, figuring out what works for you is a little bit of a devotional practice. Like you're really going to live fully into your purpose on this earth. And in order to do that, understanding the image that you are portraying to do that thing is incredibly useful in accelerating your progress and success in doing that thing. So I think it when people say, Oh, it's I'm vain, you know, it's vain. It's vain for me to think about my image. And I'm like, well, okay. Like who told you that? Right? I I see it as a a profound act of self-care and self-love. So I do talk with my clients a lot about how well are they loving on themselves also, and how much do they feel that they matter in order to make an investment like this in developing the showing of the self? Because you want to be a lighthouse. Can't be a lighthouse if you don't let your light shine.
SPEAKER_00Right. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. You know, the uh and again, I'm just thinking about this, the term image. Like what image do you do you want to project? And and when I think about the word image, I hadn't thought about this before, probably the same root as the word imagination. So it's almost like what do people imagine about you when they when they see you, when they, you know, grok you, as Robert Heinlein would have described in Stranger in a Strange Land, sort of thing.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I think you can exercise a significant amount of control over how people perceive you by changing things about your image. For example, I like I have my own story around that. When I started image consulting, I was very focused on the true self, which I still am. But at that time, it was, you know, I was expressing myself and I didn't have a lot of money. So I'm like thrift shopping and I'm getting vintage clothes and I'm getting like sample sales stuff and I'm putting it all together and it's chunky funky, fabulous. And uh, you know, people were not necessarily believing me because they would look at me and they'd be like, Well, in fact, actually, the first speaking gig I ever did, uh, where I was pitching something from the stage, pitching my services, there was a woman in the back who stood up and went, Why would I take image advice from her? Look at what she's wearing. I was like, wow. Um, so in the moment, of course, I I said to her, I said, I really don't want you to look like me, I want you to look like you. And I'm really good at that. But it there was a disconnect in people's minds because they would hear image consultant and they would expect a different level of polish or a different level of attention. And so when I got my first kind of serious business coach and I decided to really go all in on improving my business, the first thing I did was actually elevate my own, my own image. And I didn't do it myself. I called a f a colleague of mine and was like, hey, can you help me out with this? Because it's very hard for us to see ourselves. And she took me through a very similar process to what I do, but not like on a different she, you know, took me through some of her assessment pieces. And she said to me, There's an element of elegant about you. And I was like, Whatever. Like to me, elegant was don't rock the boat, you know, Audrey Hepburn, like Gracie Kelly, very quiet, print proper. She said, no, no. She goes, You have a very high level of attention to detail and you like things to be finished, to feel finished. And I'm like, oh, yes, that's true. So she said, it's not about changing who you are, this this fun, expressive, powerful, you know, magical, sparkly unicorn person that you are. She said, it's simply about finding what kind of uh level of elegance you're gonna grow into. Because also there was a fear around stepping into that much power. It's like, ooh, because in my past, if I showed up in my power, I got punished for it. And that's a common fear amongst my clients. It's like, well, if I show if I show up in my full self, I'm gonna get hurt. So we talk about that as well. Um, does that answer your question? I'm wondering if I've wandered off the point.
SPEAKER_00No, no, that's that's right, that's great. Because you know, I'm also thinking about, you know, there there was a a yellow woman that I saw at the same meeting that that you were at. Very powerful story. And like, how do you work with so here's here's what I'm wrestling with. So here's a person who she's she's young, she's attractive, she's had an unbelievable amount of experience that you would not get by looking at her. Right. And so, you know, how do you work with an image? Because part of it is is having credibility to be talking about the things that like that, all the stuff that's happened in your life are just like incredible. But you look at it and kind of go, discount her because she's female. Unfortunately, people still do that and she's young. How could she possibly? So, what would you do in a case like that where it's that uh how does that what if that who that person truly is comes out, but it's something that is not desirable in the marketplace.
SPEAKER_01It's interesting that you should say that because I remember this particular person that you're referring to, and she's lovely and she has such a powerful story. And my first and immediate reaction is I don't do anything until someone invites me to do anything. So I'm I'm gonna speak in more general terms about that because what happens is for credibility specifically, unfortunately, the credibility is still built on our old model of what leaders look like. So the old leadership model was hierarchical authority. Authoritative and compartmentalized. And it's also based on white, cis, hetero-patriarchal dudes. Still based on what a man would do, man would speak low and slow, still based on a very tailored view of what a man would wear. And so we're gradually shifting that perspective. But just visually, it's very important to understand that context because our new leadership model that we're shifting into, and in many places have already shifted into, is more integrated, relational, and whole, whole person. So in the case of someone who had a very powerful story and was being discounted because of their small stature and because they were a woman and because they perhaps didn't have the level of polish that matched the level of power in their story, I would start at the intersection of those places, say, okay, you're looking for something that will match who you are. Because what you're describing is an incongruence. Oh, this person had an amazing, powerful story when they stood up and talked, but they didn't look like someone who had an amazing, powerful story. And that can work for you and it can work against you. So in your particular situation, you need to decide, you know, how you wish to combat that. And there are a number of tools. So again, you could use straight tailoring, you could just use fit, you could use color, you could use line, you could use shape. And those are just the visual elements like grooming, um, accessory selection. And energetically, there's a power signature that goes with that, your body language. Are you really, is your nervous system settled into what you're portraying? Because also if you're overshooting the mark, people are gonna know. They're gonna know you that you are actually putting on a mask. They're not they might not know consciously, but energetically they'll know. And they won't buy your message and they won't buy you. And that's hard, super hard, because I also love the idea of getting worked out of a job and living in a society where we never judge a book by its cover. Right? I and I don't because I know what else, you know, what's underneath things. But I am also deeply aware that we are a visual society, that our brains are wired for safety, that we put people in boxes because of that wiring. And if you as a person want to really move forward, it's important for you to understand which levers to pull to get the result you want. So yeah, I always go for the intersection of what the person wants and what they're going for, and then how do we support that visually?
SPEAKER_00And I would imagine that on some occasions that uh uh, you know, the the person realizes they want to do something different and they acknowledge the uh the value of the advice that they're getting. Their head is all there, but their heart doesn't kind of want to commit to doing it. It's like, yeah, but but but but right.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's scary. It's scary. So I often working with people, I work with body-based practices, so somatic practices to make sure that you're grounded, to make sure that your nervous system feels safe. And I I learned about this from one of my mentors, Kate Northrop, in her programs about money.
SPEAKER_02Oh.
SPEAKER_01And in her programs, she talks about there's no way for you to feel um, for you to receive more money and receive levels of success that you want without your body feeling safe enough to do it. Because every kind of change is going to be interpreted as a threat by your body. So if you do not address the body first, there's no way you can think yourself into a change. So in all of my work, I thread that through now as we go because I found it incredibly valuable in my own life and I've seen the results that it produces in my clients as well.
SPEAKER_00So this conversation isn't over yet, but I just want to say right now that I want to make sure that you have contact information in the program notes because I can think there's a lot of people that but you know are thinking they need to do something differently, but also your particular approach really appeals to them. So I want to make sure there's a way that they can reach out to you if if that would be of of interest.
SPEAKER_01Of course. Do you want me to say that right now?
SPEAKER_00Do you want to wait until the end? No, I don't want them to crash. Well, I'll make sure you we put it in the program notes as as well, how how people can reach you and any other uh information that might be helpful.
SPEAKER_01Sure. The best way to reach me is on Instagram.
SPEAKER_00Okay.
SPEAKER_01I'm very easy to find just at Catherine Lazarick, and you can just DM me and say, hey, I'd like to talk. And I also do a little vibe check first. Like because some people go, oh, this program seems really overwhelming. It seems like a lot. I'm not sure I want that. Um, I'm happy to do like a 30-minute vibe check first and say, hey, you know, I like your vibe, you like mine. Okay, now let's get into the discovery process because it is extensive and it's very personal. So I'm happy to do a vibe check first and then whatever it is you want, great. And if you decide you don't want that, that's okay too.
SPEAKER_00I'll make sure that that information goes in the program notes. And for those of you that can't wait, it's Catherine with a K as opposed to a C, just in case you start looking for that. And Lazarus is L-A-Z-A-R-U-K. Okay.
SPEAKER_01But we'll make sure that very Ukrainian, very Ukrainian name.
SPEAKER_00So you don't have to pull off the road right now. We'll make sure you have that information. But if you're that intense, then by all means, there it is. Um what are you know what advice, if you were able to give people some sort of advice or suggestions on about how to think about their image and if it's something they should think about? Like, yeah, so maybe this is the question. So uh how would someone know if it would be advantageous for them to consider working with an image consultant? What would the what would the signs be that say, oh, you know, maybe I should consider this? How would they know? What would they feel? What would they think?
SPEAKER_01Okay. Um, one of the first and biggest signs is you can't you have a closet full of clothes and you have nothing to wear.
unknownOkay.
SPEAKER_01Where you stand in front of your closet and it takes you 25 minutes to figure out a stupid outfit for the stupid event that you have to go to, that you have many things, but you just can't find anything that really fits and feels good. That's one sign. A second sign is that you default to the same three outfits on repeat all the time. If you're just defaulting, defaulting, defaulting, that's a sign that you might want to do some of this work. If you are in a transition, so let's say you're getting divorced or you're changing jobs, or you want to change jobs, or you are in that place of changing your identity, that's a great time to undergo this kind of work as well. Um, but you in that you would feel you would you would know that those things were happening, but it would feel like most of my clients describe it as I feel stuck, I feel frustrated, I can't find what I want in the stores, nothing fits me. I don't feel good in my clothing, I don't feel good at work. And the other piece is uh one of the symptoms that I often hear from my clients is people are underestimating me and overlooking me. That's a thought that they have where they're like, oh, I'm getting passed over for promotions, or oh, I'm not getting like, why are those people getting clients in sales and I'm not getting any clients in sales? So there's sometimes a jealousy that people will experience. They'll see someone else and they're like, oh, I want that. So those are some so the feelings are frustration, sadness, anger, jealousy, envy sometimes comes up for people and disappointment in their own appearance. And those are those are I'm just trying to think if there's any others like super practical signs. Usually it's a frustration that people come to me with where they're like, I've tried everything and nothing has worked. Or I'm just, I just figure I need to change my body. But the truth is, if you actually change your clothing, your body will change on its own. And there's nothing wrong with your body. It doesn't have to change to look great and feel great.
SPEAKER_00So those are really great tips, like things to look out, look out for for sure. So now let's let's take this in another direction. Say, so if people recognize I'm fuming all of those things, then I would imagine there's some objections that come up fairly frequently that if you could uh address them. So one of them is, well, um, I'm and I'll I'll give a list of them to start with. So well, I'm starting to lose weight. I want to wait until I'm at the at my ideal weight. Another one is I can't afford it. I can't afford to get a whole new wardrobe. Um well, let's just take those two. That's because I imagine they're fairly frequent.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Um, the lose weight one is often one that I hear. And if someone has a specific plan, they're working with a trainer, they're already in the gym, they're doing the diet stuff, they're actually on track. Generally, what I say is, well, you still need to do the character work and we still need to do the congruence work, and that doesn't require your body to be anything. So we might as well get that work done so that when your body's ready, then we can go shop for the clothes that you are looking for. However, your body does not need to change in order for you to be worthy, in order for you to dress beautifully, in order you for you to feel good about your body. It does not have to change. So even if there's like if there's no plan in place, that's okay. It's okay. You can still come and do this work and still get great results without having to worry about changing your body at all. And in terms of alteration, you can actually alter clothing down for four sizes without changing the style of the garment.
SPEAKER_02Wow.
SPEAKER_01And then if you gain weight, you can it's like if you're apt to gain weight, it's also like, okay, well, then you want to buy clothing that has a certain amount of stretch in it. Like there are ways to accommodate bodies because bodies are wonderful and magical, and nobody has the same one and they're all amazing. And there's clothing for everybody.
SPEAKER_00I just wear everything that's elastic.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, love it, right? Yeah, totally. I I love elastic waists.
SPEAKER_00Um but I just want to stop for for a second before we go to the other one, Catherine, because I because you're really there when you're talking about image, as you said at the beginning, it's so much more than just what's in your closet. You can do so much around the image, you know, without even getting to the closet. So so let's, you know, okay, that that uh barrier excuse is gone. Okay.
SPEAKER_01Next one. Yeah, she got me.
SPEAKER_00Next one. I can't afford it.
SPEAKER_01I can't afford it. So, of course, I am not in charge of your wallet. You are the person who is going to be making a grounded decision about whether or not an investment is worth it. I do believe in accessibility, which is why I've developed a cohort program for people that are concerned about price but still want and need the information. And it's very, very good value. And I know that my clients get results that pay them back in dividends. So, for example, one of my clients was just on, I've been collecting client stories, which I love, love, love to do. And Roberta was an executive assistant when she came to work with me because she knew that she was overqualified for the job she was in and wanted to move to a different role in the professional services firm that she was working in. And there was scope to do that. But first, she had to step out of the executive assistant image and into the image that was going to be in the practice. So she, I think the program that she did at the time was like a $10,000 bespoke program. And she got a salary bump that was $15,000 more. And that was the first year. So if you think about the compounding interest on a salary increase, for example, or a client-bas increase, you often make your money back within a year or two, and then it compounds because you have this information for life. It changes you for life. So there's a there's a huge value in in on the back end for you as well. So, in terms of the actual affording, I have had people say, Oh, you know, I wish you were more affordable. It's like, you know what, I wish I could be too. But the value of this program is priced accurately. And if I were to drop my price, it just wouldn't be an integrity with the value that I offer.
SPEAKER_00Totally get that. But and I'm also wanting to know that maybe we could separate because there's the price of your consulting services, which is one mindset. Then there's the the price of clothing, which presumably isn't included in the consulting side of things.
SPEAKER_01So yeah. So when you're budgeting for a transformation like this, you do need to budget for both. And just in general, for anyone who's listening is interested about the cost of clothing. Generally, you want to budget five to 10% of your income for clothing in a year anyway, for replacing, for repairing, for cleaning, maintaining your clothing if you're actively working with your wardrobe. About five to 10%. And the 10% is high if you're on the higher end of the formality scale. If you're on the lower end of the formality scale, it's five percent. And sometimes if you if your body doesn't change much and you're not doing a lot and you can go with a smaller wardrobe, it can be a little bit less than that. But as a benchmark, it's a good idea to just kind of set aside five to 10% for it. So, and when you're thinking about clothing budgets, I work with clients who have a $500 budget and I work with clients who have a $5,000 budget. And you can, depending on where you're purchasing and what you're purchasing, it is possible to get a complete wardrobe with accessories and variability and lots of choice for two to five thousand dollars, depending on where you're going. The last complete wardrobe I did was about five thousand dollars, and that was complete casual clothing, business clothing, shoes, accessories, outerwear, bags, everything. And it was about $5,000 in the end. So you do have to think about both, but you also have to understand that that's not upfront, right? Those things happen over time, and you can take this knowledge and build your wardrobe over time. And sometimes it can take up to two years to do a complete wardrobe shift because you're doing it measurably, you're doing it in a way that feels safe for your body and safe for your soul. So you're not overextending yourself, you're doing it in a measurable way. And same with the work that I do. I offer payment plans for people because we all have cash flow issues as well. So there's or not issues, but like cash flow. We have to think about cash flow as a function of being an adult. So that's another piece that I offer as well.
SPEAKER_00So here's the last question I'm gonna pose to you, Catherine. I found this very, very valuable. And the question is this so there's, you know, been a trend, especially around younger people, to really get into thrift shopping. Like my daughter took me on a thrifting expedition down to Washington State, and she had all these places lined up, all kinds of different things. Like it was it was a cultural shock, a culture shock for me. But there's a lot of people that, you know, either from a value standpoint or from a cost standpoint, are really focusing on thrift shopping. So, what tips would you have with respect to image and thrifters? I realize that could be very challenging, but I wouldn't ask unless I thought you were going to come up with something absolutely brilliant. So, what can you do with that question?
SPEAKER_01I have many clients who love to thrift. I love to thrift. I think it's great, fun. It's a little bit like treasure hunting. But the thing is, is when you're equipped with what works for you, you can make that process incredibly fast. So if you know, for example, your technical elements, if you know what colors are amazing for you, you know what kind of lines work for you, you know what kinds of levels of texture work for you, for example, if you know what your level of sheen is, if you know what your personality archetype is and what's gonna work or not. You literally can walk into a store, scan, be like, yep, there's something there for me. I'm gonna go look at it, or nope, I'm out. So as you're going through a rack of clothing, like in thrift stores, you're mostly looking for size first, is where you go, just because you don't know what's gonna be in the in the racks. Or you're like, oh, I'm looking for a pair of pants. You go to the actual item, or I'm looking for a shirt, and you go to those, that section, then you start to look for your elements of design and you just go flip, flip, flip, flip, flip, flip, flip. Oh, this one has the right color, for example. Okay, I'm gonna pull that out and I'm gonna touch it. So, like if you have a high sensory value for your clothing, because that's something else we talk about, or your clothing values, you're like, oh, oh, that feels terrible. I'm not gonna pick that up. Or oh, that feels really yummy. Okay, now I'm gonna look and see does it actually work for all the other elements of what I'm doing. But it makes the process of shopping way easier because it removes a whole bunch of decision fatigue because you already know what works for you. You're not guessing, you know. And so thrifting is like any other kind of shopping, except it's just a slightly different treasure hunt kind of thing.
SPEAKER_00You know, I I think a lot of people, I don't know, I'm projecting here big time, but a lot of people just go thrift shopping. But but, you know, you asked about five or six things that people would be helpful to know before they go thrifting. That's so valuable, right? Your your pre-thrifting um uh standard operating procedure, things, things to think of. I absolutely love that. So the things you're talking about could apply to anybody, the thinking, the whole the big, the big eye image as opposed to just what you wear. So, Catherine, this I've really enjoyed this conversation, and I can't wait to to see you in person. And I, you know, I hope that uh those that are listening have got a lot out of it. I I have a hard time imagining that anyone, everyone would not get something out of this. So thank you so much for being here with me today.
SPEAKER_01Thank you for inviting me. It was a real pleasure. I love talking about this, I could talk about it all day.
SPEAKER_00So this is David Guthrie with Discover Fresh Perspectives. As you know, I love talking about just about anything every day. And all I can guarantee is that next week there will be another guest with a different perspective on something. So come on back and join us then. Subscribe now because on Fresh Perspectives, every episode is an opportunity to explore new horizons and redefine what's achievable.