The Hibernacle Episode 5 - WANDER

This week we take a wander in the Hibernacle. We are seeking ways to overcome the lack of daylight and bad weather to lead us out of winter hibernation. Expect beachcombing, microclimates and lunchtime adventures. NB. Please check the laws around beachcombing for your own location.

Editor of The Simple Things magazine, Lisa Sykes is chatting with Jo Tinsley, regular contributor to the magazine, Editor of Ernest Journal and author of The Slow Traveller and fellow outdoors fan.

The Hibernacle is supported by Charnwood Stoves

Transcript

Lisa Sykes (00:12):

Welcome to the Hibernacle. It's our winter retreat where we pretend for a while the outside world doesn't exist. However, that doesn't mean simply hiding under the duvet till spring. Tempting, though that definitely is. It's more about putting real life on hold for a while in order to rest and reenergize for the year ahead. I'm Lisa Sykes, editor of The Simple Things. This is episode five and I'm having a cuppa and a chat with Jo Tinsley, who is one of our regular contributors to the simple things. She's also editor of Earnest Journal and author of The Slow Traveller. And this week we're going on a metaphorical wander seeking out some of those simple things that offer us a little bit of escape from the norm during the winter months when we spend so much time at home. Hi Jo, have you got a little bit of a touch of cabin fever by this time in the winter?

Jo Tinsley (00:55):

Hi, Lisa. Yeah, no, I definitely do. I mean, when you work at home and it's still dark in evenings, it's hard not to feel cooped up. I appreciate something about all the seasons, but I'm feeling ready for spring. I bet you're the same.

Lisa Sykes (01:07):

I know what you mean. Yeah, no, I'm looking forward to getting out. But I have to say there is some benefits to be at home and one of them is a cosy fire, which leads nicely on for us to say thank you. A big thank you to Charnwood Stoves who are our supporters for this first season of the podcast, and they make elegant eco and efficient wood burning and multi fuel stoves, which are just the thing to come home to when you've been on a wonder and you can find out more and find out where your local stockist is at charnwood.com. Thanks very much. So that's the thing, Jo, isn't it? If you've got children, you may have already been out on an outing or two because it was half term. We probably, yours has either just started or just finished. And I know you've got a young child, but there's no doubt with glimpses of spring, it can still be hard to persuade yourself out of our hibernation. And we know it's good for us. We know sunlight is the way we make vitamin D, but it's still hard to get yourself out there, isn't it? What do you do to sort of punctuate your day or your week at this time of year?

Jo Tinsley (02:02):

Yeah, it is really hard. I mean, I go swimming in a lake at the weekends, which I know not for everyone,

Lisa Sykes (02:08):

Even in

Jo Tinsley (02:09):

Winter, even in winter with a wetsuit, obviously

Lisa Sykes (02:12):

Impressive,

Jo Tinsley (02:13):

But with a dog and a three-year-old, I mean, we have to get out, so we just kick ourselves out and go to the woods, to the local woods. It's always nice. Whatever time of year, it's always green. It feels sheltered when the weather's bad, unless it's really stormy and it just feels good being in the woods, doesn't it?

Lisa Sykes (02:28):

Yeah, it's true. I've got a dog too, and I've got teenagers, so they're not interested in going outside at all, but having a dog does make you go out. But of course there are probably, I think there are two things aren't there that put us off going outside, and one is the lack of daylight and the other is the weather. And tell us why those things shouldn't worry us.

Jo Tinsley (02:47):

Yeah, well, I mean, I think one of the things I find really interesting is that the kernel of each season kind of hides within the last one.

Lisa Sykes (02:55):

Oh, I like that idea. So you're already moving into the next season, but

Jo Tinsley (03:00):

Yeah,

Lisa Sykes (03:01):

Even when you haven't left this one. Yeah. Nice.

Jo Tinsley (03:03):

So even in the middle of winter, even at the winter solstice, that's when the days start to get longer. So it's like this promise of spring is hiding in the middle of winter and it's getting lighter all the time right now in London, sunsets 20 past five, but that's a whole hour longer than a month ago.

Lisa Sykes (03:19):

You really can see it, can't you? I mean, we mentioned in a previous episode about how on average it gets lighter by two minutes a day, which is great, isn't it? It's really exciting.

Jo Tinsley (03:27):

It is. Yeah. But did you know that's actually, it's not constant. That's actually speeding up. So around the equinoxes, it's going faster than it is around the solstices.

Lisa Sykes (03:37):

Wow. Yeah, that's good news. There's reasons to be cheerful right there, isn't it? So it actually, it's more than two minutes a day at the moment, basically, because we're approaching the solstice.

Jo Tinsley (03:46):

It is. We're approaching the equinox that's doing the Equinox. Yeah. So it's rapidly increasing

Lisa Sykes (03:50):

Sorin nottice, the Equinox. Yeah, yeah,

Jo Tinsley (03:53):

Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

Lisa Sykes (03:54):

Amazing. Oh, well, there we go. So the daylight is not an excuse. What about weather though? Come on. I mean, when it's cold and grey, and I know we should probably do a disclaimer because you and I are both quite outdoorsy people, aren't we?

Jo Tinsley (04:06):

Yeah, it's true.

Lisa Sykes (04:07):

And we prefer to be outside that in most of the time, but not everybody is like that, and we do appreciate that. But what do you do to get yourself out there really when the weather is bad?

Jo Tinsley (04:18):

Yeah, well, I mean, I've always subscribed to that Scandinavian concept of there's no bad weather, there's just bad clothes though. I just bundle myself up and I get out and about. But there's always things to do at different times of year, and one of my favourite things to do at this time of year, especially after bad weather, not during bad weather, but after there's been stormy weather, it's to go beach combing.

Lisa Sykes (04:38):

Oh, yeah, yeah. A

Jo Tinsley (04:40):

Winter beach has so much to do compared to the summer. There's a lot less people and there's just new and interesting things to see.

Lisa Sykes (04:47):

Interesting. Yeah, no, and of course none of us are that far from a beach really. Certainly day trip, isn't it?

Jo Tinsley (04:53):

Yeah, exactly.

Lisa Sykes (04:53):

And there's something about clearing the head on a beach as well, isn't there? And then of course, if you're looking for something, if you're looking for treasure, whatever that may be, you're really absorbed in what you're doing as well.

Jo Tinsley (05:03):

Yeah. This was in the latest, no, it was in the January issue of the simple things. So Vanessa Wright wrote about how this wild weather just stirs up the seabed and it washes creatures up onto the shore that you wouldn't normally find, and yet no two days are ever the same, and you can just find some really interesting and unusual things.

Lisa Sykes (05:21):

So what sort of things would you find?

Jo Tinsley (05:23):

Well, I've brought along a bit of a show and tell Lisa.

Lisa Sykes (05:25):

Oh, exciting. Exciting for me anyway. I shall describe it to our listeners.

Jo Tinsley (05:31):

Yeah, no, I can put this on Instagram if people are interested.

Lisa Sykes (05:33):

Wow, that is okay. I'm just going to describe what Jerry showed me. It is a ball. It is bigger than a tennis ball, would you say?

Jo Tinsley (05:41):

I'd say it's about the size of a gar melon.

Lisa Sykes (05:43):

Gar melon. There we go. Perfect description. Yeah. It is not the colour of a gar melon. It is kind of bubbly. It is lilac and greys and sort of heading towards purpley and white. And it is, of course a sea urchin, isn't it?

Jo Tinsley (05:58):

It's a sea urchin. Yeah. So this is a sea urchin test. It's the hard outer skeleton of a sea urchin, and these are usually found much further out to sea, but after wild weather, they can get thrown up onto the shore, onto the strand line.

Lisa Sykes (06:10):

That is the biggest one I've ever seen. I have to say

Jo Tinsley (06:12):

It's really big. I've got two, this one's called Biggie and Smally. My daughter named them. I didn't, but they're really interesting. There's lots of folklore around these people used to put them in children's cradles to prevent disease. There's always something really interesting about the history and folklore of what you find.

Lisa Sykes (06:30):

Yeah, no, and so what else would you find? I mean, shells, obviously.

Jo Tinsley (06:34):

Shells, yeah, I've got this. Sea potatoes. You are more likely to find these in

Lisa Sykes (06:38):

Those edible. No,

Jo Tinsley (06:39):

I don't think so.

Lisa Sykes (06:40):

They do look a bit potato like those they

Jo Tinsley (06:42):

Do. They look like a little sort of heart shaped potato really. But yeah, these wash up in great numbers after storms like a few years ago in pens. And so it's hundreds of these on the beach and they're really brittle. They're almost like crisps.

Lisa Sykes (06:55):

And what's the deal? Are you allowed to take stuff? I dunno the rules anymore. Are you allowed to collect shells or collect a sea urchin or?

Jo Tinsley (07:01):

Well, it's illegal to collect sand and pebbles because of coastal erosion, but you can sparingly collect shells. Just the most important thing is that their homes for animals, and they're food for animals, so you don't want to take lots. If you find something interesting and it's a shell and it's not pebbles, then you'll find to take that.

Lisa Sykes (07:18):

Yeah, so I really love sea glass. It's so beautiful. I know it's not really natural, but you do get some gorgeous colours, don't you?

Jo Tinsley (07:25):

No, it is really beautiful.

Lisa Sykes (07:27):

I've actually got a necklace made from it that my partner gave me, and as it's, I'll tell the little sweet story. So I told him that no one had ever bought me jewellery before, and so he bought me a sea glass necklace, which is very nice.

Jo Tinsley (07:37):

Oh, nice. That's lovely.

Lisa Sykes (07:39):

But what about more unusual things? I mean, you get, in our article it talked about how someone had found mammoth tusks in Horn Bay and there's all sorts of things aren't there that come from much further afield?

Jo Tinsley (07:49):

Yeah, well, that's one of the things because we've got these ocean currents that are always moving things across the world. You can get coconuts that wash up or drift seeds, which are seeds from Mexico and South America, which come over on ocean currents and you can find them in the Hebrides. They're really, really unusual fines.

Lisa Sykes (08:06):

Nice. So I think we've got a great activity there, haven't we, for post storm weather, but we haven't really addressed how to find better weather. And one of the things I think is really interesting in our latest issue, this is the new February issue, is the piece we did on microclimate because they are the answer, they you can get warmer, drier, sunnier places without actually leaving the country.

Jo Tinsley (08:31):

Yeah, it's true. So a microclimate is a small area where the weather is very different from the surrounding region. So it could be because it's sheltered by a valley or peninsula or shape mountains, or it could just be warmed up by ocean currents. And when those two things,

Lisa Sykes (08:45):

So we're talking the Gulf Stream, aren't we really?

Jo Tinsley (08:48):

Exactly. Yeah, exactly.

Lisa Sykes (08:49):

Yeah, yeah. So straight of the western side of the country.

Jo Tinsley (08:52):

So the Gulf Stream brings warm water, say Mexico to Northwest Europe, and if we didn't have it, our winters would be about five degrees colder.

Lisa Sykes (09:00):

That's a massive difference, isn't it? Yeah,

Jo Tinsley (09:02):

Yeah.

Lisa Sykes (09:03):

So I know we used to go to the Flint Peninsula in North Wales a lot, and that is juts out 30 miles straight into the Gulf Stream, doesn't it? And it gets a really interesting microclimate and you can actually feel like you're in a different country, especially if you go to somewhere like Port Marion, which is all Italian architecture. It practically feels like you're on the Amalfi Coast.

Jo Tinsley (09:23):

Exactly, yeah,

Lisa Sykes (09:24):

Well almost.

Jo Tinsley (09:26):

And that's because of these extra temperatures, it means they don't get so much frost and so they can grow these really tropical plants.

Lisa Sykes (09:33):

So it adds to the exoticness of the place, doesn't it?

Jo Tinsley (09:36):

Yeah, exactly.

Lisa Sykes (09:37):

And actually I went to Dundee for the first time this year, really loved it. Great city. But it is as build a Scotland, sunny city, and that's obviously on the east coast Now that's not getting the Gulf stream is it? That's presumably to do with shelter from the mountains.

Jo Tinsley (09:51):

Yeah, so that's because it's in the lee of the hills, which means in the shelter of the hills. So places on the east of the country generally get less rain than those. On the Windwood side, we get our winds from the southwest. So places on the east are generally sunnier, warmer, brighter, brighter places.

Lisa Sykes (10:06):

Yeah. Well, there were definitely palm trees in Dundee. It was like, I felt like I was in toque. But anyway, you've brought up a good point here, Joe, about the Leewood side of the mountains because I think I know what

Jo Tinsley (10:17):

You're going to say.

Lisa Sykes (10:18):

You know where I'm going with this, don't you? Because So first of all, you need to know people that Joe is from Rochdale on the dark side of the Pennines, and I am from Huddersfield in God's own country on the correct side of the Pennines, which are actually so close. And the fact that we're discussing microclimate just proves the point that it is warmer, drier and sunnier in Yorkshire than Lancashire. I'm sorry Joe. But the only advantage I can see of Lancashire is that it's nearer the lake district.

Jo Tinsley (10:44):

Yeah, no, I do. I mean, I always want to fight the corner for Lancashire, but to be honest, when it comes to weather, I don't have a leg to stand on. I grew up in the rain constantly.

Lisa Sykes (10:54):

I know it's true. It's not easy to argue the case for Lancashire on weather reasons, but I should say that I do actually spend a lot of time in Lancashire. My partner is from Mor. We've had a lot of holidays in the forest of Poland, and actually my daughter is applying to Lancaster University, which I'm not sure how I feel about, but we'll go with that. But I think microclimates are great, aren't they? Because you can actually get that sun on your face. That is what we're really after. And I don't know, do you know this word ity? No, it's the word for the warmth of the sun in winter. It's such a great word. Oh, nice. And you can almost feel it when you say the word, and imagine you just sat there in a bench and the sun's just the power of it's not great all day, is it? But if you go out in the middle of the day, you really do see the benefit.

Jo Tinsley (11:40):

No, you really notice it. You really do notice it. Especially sort of gardening at this time of year. You get those moments when you can kind of feel the warmth on your face and it's just, yeah, it's lovely.

Lisa Sykes (11:48):

Definitely. Oh, you see, I'm feeling better already. Anyway, we're going to take a small rest now. All the outdoors adventure. We're going to have a pause while I read one of our original short stories that we commission every issue. And this one is about a much needed Pick me up tonic. A short story by Lucy Diamond, Kirsty trudged through the wood. It was a cold spring morning and the frost still silvered the uppermost branches of the trees. She'd had a hectic few months with her dad being ill and her boss being difficult about the time she'd had to take off work having come for a walk to clear her head. She only felt more fed up with every step. Lost in thought. She didn't notice the dog until the last moment. Oh, she gult. It was a young golden retriever, long-legged and bouncy charging up with a tennis ball in his mouth.

(12:48):

Hello, Kirsty said, glancing round. Where did you come from? There was nobody in sight, just the sound of the wind in the trees. The dog dropped the ball at her feet, tail wagging expectantly. You want me to throw this to you? Kirsty said, checking around a second time. The moment she picked up the dunk tennis ball, the dog quivered with excitement. Then as she held it into the distance, he raced away in enthusiastic pursuit, a scrabble of pause later, and he was back dropping the ball beside her again, tongue lolling from his mouth. He looked almost as if he was smiling. Kirsty thought, feeling a smile appear on her own face in response. You are very friendly, aren't you? She said scratchy behind his soft ears. But where's your owner? Hey, there was a silver disc on the dog's collar with a phone number engraved, but when she dialled it, it went straight to voicemail.

(13:34):

Hi, I am in Starling Woods and I found your dog. She said, give me a call. The dog had its head cocked endearingly as if waiting for her to continue their game. Go on. Then she said, grabbing the ball and throwing it as hard as she could. This went on for a while. The dog seeming tireless in its enthusiasm and Kirsty realised she was enjoying herself too, laughing even when the dog leapt athletically to catch the ball in midair. Good catch. She cheered, giving him a fuss when he lull. Looked back. You are so clever. When had she last lived in the moment like this, become red cheeked with exercise and pleasure. Life had become so serious in recent months. So grim. It was lovely to play to hear her own laughter again. What was more bending down to the grab the ball. She'd noticed a few starry wooden enemies beneath the trees.

(14:22):

The trail of a blackbird song. Overhead spring was coming. She realised with a sudden rush of gladness. Then her phone rang. You've got tonic. Oh, thank you. Came a woman's breathless voice tonic. Kirsty smiled at the dog. The name was appropriate, she thought. Ri. Yes. My dad's got two dogs, gin and tonic came to reply. It could have been worse though. He wanted to call them Benjamin and Hedges. Where are you? Kirsty explained. And minutes later, a blonde woman in a pink puffer appeared with a second dog by her side. Gin, presumably Tonic was so excited. He rushed around in circles, looping first around the blonde woman. Then Kirsty daft thing, the woman said fondly petting him. Thanks again. I hope he's not been a nuisance. Not at all, said Kirsty. He's lovely. He's actually been just what I needed. A real tonic. Ah, good boy. The woman smiled. Well, if you ever fancy joining us for a dog walk again, we're always here at the weekend. Maybe I'll having better trained by then. Thank you. Kirsty replied. I'd love that she said goodbye and walked away and knew spring in her step life it seemed. Might just be taking a turn for the better at last.

(15:44):

Well, I think we all need a tonic now and again, don't we? I know I do. And what works for me, A hot drink in front of the fire. That's what I like. And I have got a charmwood stove actually, who I may have mentioned our sponsoring this podcast. Thank you very much. Charmwood Stoves. And I do love sitting in front of the fire in an afternoon, but it's always good to have got a out first. And this episode is very much about leaving the fireside behind. But you don't need to go far to Wanda do Jo. It is really about exploring what's on your doorstep.

Jo Tinsley (16:12):

Yeah, no, it really is. I think one of the best ways to do it at this time of year is to go out on your lunch hour because that's the best shot you've got at getting some daylight and getting back in time to finish your work or before it gets dark. So I think making time to pop out for a walk maybe or a pot around the garden in your lunch hour is perhaps a really good intention that we can all set at this time of year.

Lisa Sykes (16:35):

You're absolutely right, and I found a statistic yesterday that more than two thirds of us do not take our lunch breaks, which is pretty shocking. I mean, we all do it. We,

Jo Tinsley (16:45):

Yeah, I can believe that.

Lisa Sykes (16:46):

And actually, I dunno, maybe you actually need it more in winter because it's not necessarily cheery while you sat working, is it? No. So you want to kind of get out and do something. So we've got lots of ideas and we've done pieces on this before, haven't we?

Jo Tinsley (17:00):

Yeah, yeah. We have about just the reasons why it's a good time to take that time out. I mean, you don't even have to be that active. You can just go and sit somewhere. You can pot around the garden, you can listen to the birds, just do what feels right for you.

Lisa Sykes (17:12):

So a mental wonder really, as much as a physical wonder. Yeah.

Jo Tinsley (17:16):

Yeah.

Lisa Sykes (17:16):

I like the idea of sitting in my garden, doing a bit of birdwatching, just watching the garden birds, doing their thing around the feeders and stuff. That's a very restful thing. I think that's my equivalent of a fish tank. I did have a fish tank once, and actually it was a lot more effort than I expected to keep those fish alive. Whereas birds in your garden, that's much easier. Much easier.

Jo Tinsley (17:37):

And you can also just head out and find some signs of spring at this time of year. There's early blossom, there's bulbs coming up. I mean, have you been noticing signs of spring?

Lisa Sykes (17:45):

Oh yeah. Do you know what the thing I really like this time of year? Well, there's two. One is the woodpeckers drumming in the woods. I love that sound you get. And it's usually Jan Feb when they start doing it, letting potential mates know that they're around. And the other is another bird site. If you go to practically any lake, you're going to find great crested GREs, which are really distinctive, got that crest on their head, and they do this courtship dance that is so lovely because they intertwine themselves and it looks like they're making a heart together. So nice. You'd have to be a pretty hard-hearted person not to feel moved by it. And that's a lovely thing to see. And practically any park with a big lake will have some GREs in it.

Jo Tinsley (18:26):

And it's just a good time of year to see any wildlife. The trees are bare, so you can see more. You can see deer, you can see birds of prey. It's a great chance to look up and see what's in the sky as well.

Lisa Sykes (18:37):

I know I love the views in winter that they're so much further than they are at any other time of year. You can see things that you don't normally see, don't your buildings even. You spot things that are just normally not visible. And that always feels like a real treat because during lockdown, we got really into wandering around our edge lands, didn't we? Places that we'd ignored in the past that suddenly became a new interesting place to go. You weren't allowed to really go much further than your home. And then I think we've kind of lost that habit a bit. So maybe in winter when you don't necessarily want to go far, you've only got a few hours of daylight or a lunch break, it's a good time to look more closer to home again, isn't it?

Jo Tinsley (19:16):

And you've got a good point about sort of being in a city. There's still so many places to explore. I often find that canals are great places to great places. Canals snake through most city centres, and you get that wellbeing feeling of being beside the water and the different wildlife that brings. And just that it feels a bit more of a grounded space. People are jogging and walking and

Lisa Sykes (19:38):

No, it's true. I really like taking an ordinance survey map. I am a big fan of an ordinance survey map and just finding something on it that I thought, oh, I didn't know that was there. I could go and check that out. Obviously ordinance survey maps less good if you're in the middle of a city, but in the middle of a city, there are loads of ways to find new places, aren't there?

Jo Tinsley (19:56):

Yeah, yeah, there's loads. And I think one of the other things to remember is don't just slope off. If you are working with colleagues, tell your colleagues that you're going out, encourage other people to do this as well. It's something that we can all do together.

Lisa Sykes (20:08):

Yeah, no, you're right. Actually, I think people see lunch breaks a little bit as, oh, they're having to admit that they're not going to be working for a while. And actually it's so much better for you, isn't it? And we've got to get over the guilt of the lunch break

Jo Tinsley (20:23):

And it makes you more productive. Staying at your desk doesn't mean you'll be more productive, getting some fresh air, getting some sunshine. All of these things help us feel less sluggish in the afternoon. So it's not only good for you, it's good for the work you're doing as well.

Lisa Sykes (20:37):

No, I think that's a great plan. The other thing that I liked to do, this is something that I've started doing more recently. I got sick of going to my old hometown to see my, and spending the whole time there sat in my mum's conservatory, chatting away about, and she'd be telling me all the things like, oh, this is closed, that's closed. Or Oh, remember this person? And I was thinking, I don't see this town anymore. I never go out and look at it. I never see where I grew up. I don't kind of get involved. And I used to know it so intimately, but probably like most of us, if we've moved away from home, you leave at 18 just as you're finding it interesting when you take it off for granted when you're a kid. But also even if you haven't left, the chances are that you've got a little bit in a rut with you where you live if you're still living in the place you grew up. And so I think seeing a place in fresh eyes is a really good thing to do. And you're going to discover lots of new things that have opened up. I love a new path. So lots of railways have been turned into long distance paths, but they're also permissive staff and new parks that are created when landscapings happen and things like that.

(21:47):

And suddenly you can find back walks. There's a really good walk. You mentioned canals earlier on a canal near us that I just never knew was there. And actually you can go for miles along this canal and it's beautiful. And you get the thing about canals, you get to see things from the back view, don't you?

Jo Tinsley (22:01):

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're getting to see the backs of houses and gardens that lead down to the water and yeah, there's so many benefits to walking along Towpaths for sure.

Lisa Sykes (22:10):

And I think obviously high streets have had a really hard time and town centres. And the town centres we grew up in where the pubs we bundled around and the shops we used to go to probably are a bit of a sad state in a lot of cases. But a lot of the suburbs have found themselves and they've suddenly got a little artisan bakery or a deli or a microbrewery. There are lots of new developments going on that are worth checking out. And if you don't go and see them or you don't go exploring, even though you think, well, how can I explore here? I know it really well, you'll never find them. So that is my sort of not a New Year's resolution because I don't do resolutions, but that is my intention for this year to do more exploring in my old hometown when I go and see the

Jo Tinsley (22:52):

Family. I think there's ways that you can encourage yourself to do this as well if it doesn't come naturally to you. So a few years ago I was writing a feature about sketching for the simple things.

Lisa Sykes (23:03):

Oh, I remember. Yeah,

Jo Tinsley (23:04):

Yeah, yeah. And when I intentionally sat down to sketch in various parts of the city in Bristol, I realised that looking at the tops of the buildings that many of the weather veins were ships.

Lisa Sykes (23:14):

Oh, how cute.

Jo Tinsley (23:16):

Because it's got a good seafaring sort of history. It wasn't cooks

Lisa Sykes (23:20):

And there are lots of them.

Jo Tinsley (23:21):

Yeah, yeah. They're all over the place. And it's like if you just take those moments to notice new things, and there's lots of ways to do this, you can find a local guidebook or a local map. There's some fantastic maps out there, like the London National Park City map, which highlights all of the green and blue spaces in the city.

Lisa Sykes (23:40):

Oh, that's nice, isn't it? Yeah.

Jo Tinsley (23:42):

Or Herb Lester Map.

Lisa Sykes (23:43):

Oh, herb Lester maps are lovely, aren't they?

Jo Tinsley (23:44):

Yeah, yeah.

Lisa Sykes (23:46):

They're just works of art.

Jo Tinsley (23:48):

They're fantastic.

Lisa Sykes (23:49):

And they just give you a sense of the personality of the city, I think.

Jo Tinsley (23:54):

Yeah. If people don't know, they take a sort of quirky angle on a city and explore all of the landmarks that address that angle. And whenever I go abroad, if I go to a European city, I always buy them

Lisa Sykes (24:05):

Nice.

Jo Tinsley (24:06):

Because it's just an interesting way. But I mean, you've got them for the UK cities, various different versions.

Lisa Sykes (24:11):

Yeah. See, you were telling me earlier, and I think this is really interesting. Tell me about your walking home, because I think there's a pilgrimage of sorts to places that you know and love, isn't there?

Jo Tinsley (24:21):

Yeah, it's true because the place that I grew up, I don't go back to because my parents don't live there anymore. But yeah, I did do this pilgrimage quite recently. So 20 years ago I moved to Bristol and I hadn't found my tribe. I hadn't found people to walk with. And so I used to just get the bus to wells in Somerset, put around the market on my own, go for a walk in the mend dips. I think it was a landscape that reminded me of the pennines. It made me feel at home. And now 20 years later, I'm living in Somerset. I'm living within a few miles of this place that used to mean so much to me. Nice. And so last summer I took a bus to Wells potted around the market, and then I just walked home to my new home. It was only about six miles, but it felt really meaningful. It felt like I was treading this path from this former stage of my life to this stage now. And pilgrimages don't need to be long distance to be transformative, to feel meaningful for you.

Lisa Sykes (25:11):

I think that's really interesting. I think everybody can find a connection with a place, can't

Jo Tinsley (25:16):

They? Exactly.

Lisa Sykes (25:17):

And actually that connection is reinforced if you travel to it on foot, which is what a pilgrimage is, isn't it? Yeah. I think there are lots of reasons to get out in winter, aren't they? But it is more tricky because you do have less daytime. But I know you are a fan of a twilight walk, aren't you?

Jo Tinsley (25:35):

Yeah, I am. I really love this. I dunno if you look them up, there's so many beautiful names for this time of day as well in Scotland.

Lisa Sykes (25:43):

Oh God.

Jo Tinsley (25:43):

You've got the Gloaming or

Lisa Sykes (25:46):

Dit,

Jo Tinsley (25:46):

And you've got Dims in Devon. But there's also this really beautiful word. It's just such a lovely word to say, which means twilight or

Lisa Sykes (25:54):

Oh, nice.

Jo Tinsley (25:56):

An animal that's active at this time of day.

Lisa Sykes (25:59):

So we need to be more ular, is what you're saying, Jo.

Jo Tinsley (26:03):

We do. We do. Yeah. But I think there's so many rewards with going on a twilight walk. There's a lot just noticing the different smells, the different sites, the different sounds. There's wood smoke, there's a sound of owls, or you just notice how quiet it's without the bird causing the traffic.

Lisa Sykes (26:20):

And actually you can do it in urban areas too, although it's a slightly more nosy Parker type walk. Because if you are walking down the street at twilight, the chances are that most people's curtains aren't yet drawn. So you get it to have a really good peak in people's windows. And

(26:36):

I have to say, I do like a bit of that if I'm walking down an urban street. But actually there's a real practical reason why sunset and sunrise, sunrise comes very late, and sunset comes very early. So you don't need to be up with the larks or be a night owl to enjoy them. Unlike in summer where they're obviously dawn comes very early. And you really do have to force yourself to get up to appreciate it. So I think there's something to be really said. I mean, maybe full on night hikes in winter is a bit for the brave, but twilight holds all sorts of possibilities, doesn't it?

Jo Tinsley (27:07):

Yeah. And even just, I think gardeners particularly love this time of the day because in this, I didn't know if you know this, but there's three phases of twilight.

Lisa Sykes (27:16):

Oh, no, I did not know that.

Jo Tinsley (27:18):

In the first one, which is civil twilight, such a polite term, isn't it? Civil.

Lisa Sykes (27:22):

Civil twilight.

Jo Tinsley (27:24):

Civil twilight. But this is a really nice time to garden because it means you can potter about, you don't need a torch. You're getting those last little bits of the light.

Lisa Sykes (27:33):

Yeah, yeah.

Jo Tinsley (27:34):

It's a really nice time to be outside.

Lisa Sykes (27:36):

I'm often trying to finish jobs in the garden at that time of day.

Jo Tinsley (27:39):

Yeah, yeah. So civil twilight's, when the sun is between sunset and six degrees below the horizon. And next comes nautical twilight, which dates back to when sailors used to use the stars for navigation.

Lisa Sykes (27:51):

And is that when the first stars appear over the sea then? Yeah. Okay.

Jo Tinsley (27:55):

So it's like it's not too dark, but you can start to see stars with the naked eye and then astronomical twilight, which is when the sun is between 12 and 18 degrees. And that's when, yeah, more stars to come out and it starts to feel like true dark.

Lisa Sykes (28:09):

So is stargazing better in winter?

Jo Tinsley (28:11):

Yeah, I mean, it's clearer. I think the cold air holds less moisture in it. And so when you have a clear night, it's super crisp and it's just really nice to see stars in that kind of atmosphere.

Lisa Sykes (28:25):

Right. Well, I'm definitely crossing my fingers for a clear night tonight after that. So I just like to make a small plug, really, because we run these outings, which are spontaneous day trips in every issue of the magazine. And the idea is you don't need to plan too much. You just can go and see and do things. And Joe and I are always coming up with ideas for these things, aren't we? So hopefully we've given you a few ideas for wandering, relatively little effort to get you to leave your sofa or dove behind and stride out into the beginnings of a new year. I'd like to say thank you to Charnwood Stoves for helping to bring this podcast to you all, and you can check them out at Charnwood.com. And thanks also to Jo for her always interesting conversation. Thank you, and fascinating facts. Jo and I will be back next week for the last episode in this season, which will be an appreciation of wonder and the wonder of winter. See you then.