The Hibernacle Episode 6 – WONDER

This week  we discuss simple things to marvel at during winter.
In the last of this season, we embrace the season’s bleak but dramatic landscapes, why we love a small hill, natural spectacles, frost and ice and make mention of dragons…

Join us in The Hibernacle, hosted by Editor of The Simple Things magazine, Lisa Sykes with Jo Tinsley, regular contributor to the magazine, Editor of Ernest Journal and author of The Slow Traveller.

The Hibernacle is supported by Charnwood Stoves

Transcript

Lisa Sykes (00:10):

Welcome to the Hibernacle. It's our winter retreat where we put real life and the outside world on hold for a while, while we rest and reenergize for the year ahead. I'm Lisa Sykes, editor of The Simple Things Magazine, and this is episode six where we are taking time to notice and marvel at the Wonder of Winter. And join the spectacle with me is Jo Tinsley, who's a regular contributor of the Simple Things. She's also editor of Ernest Journal, an author of The Slow Traveller. Hello Jo. Hope you're ready to explore with me today.

Jo Tinsley (00:39):

I am, I certainly am. It's good to be back.

Lisa Sykes (00:40):

I'd also like to say a big thank you to our good friends at Charnwood Stoves who are supporting this first season of our first ever podcast. We'll be hearing from Ced who runs the family owned company on the Isle of White a little later on, and he's going to be talking to me a bit about the Wonder of a Fire, but you can also find out more and where they are and where your stockists are at charnwood.com. So Spring's not very far off now, but it certainly can see me in February, which is often the coldest month. It brings really bad weather and we won't see spring in most places for quite a while. But these dog days of winter, they're described as a dreary time, aren't they? As period of stagnation that seems to go on and on. So Joe and I today are determined to find some small ways to push through. Is that right, Jo?

Jo Tinsley (01:25):

Yeah, yeah, it is. I mean, we are almost there, but I mean I also quite like this time of year I, there's something about the bleakness that I find kind of appealing.

Lisa Sykes (01:35):

I know what you mean. It helps that I also love a bleak landscape. I mean, for me it's kind of the bleak of the better. I love a moa. I love a rocky coastline. Bare fells.

Jo Tinsley (01:44):

Yeah, no, I'm the same

Lisa Sykes (01:46):

Desolate sand dunes. I dunno. I think it's probably because I grew up with the MOAs on the skyline. I mean, Ash, did you, Jo, we've mentioned before as both growing up on opposite side of the Pennine Hills, but you can see them ERs from where you grew up, can't you?

Jo Tinsley (02:00):

Yeah, yeah. We could walk to them in about five minutes. So these places have always felt like home to me.

Lisa Sykes (02:04):

Yeah. Why do you think we like them?

Jo Tinsley (02:06):

I mean, I think it's the space we spend all day looking at our computer screens and our phones, which are really close to our faces. And when we go into these landscapes, you can see for so far, and it's actually great open spaces. This are actually good for us. It helps us to use our eyes differently. It's called something called optic flow.

Lisa Sykes (02:24):

Yeah, this thing, isn't it where your eyes focus in on your screen when you're looking tightly, but when you get out in a big space, they move laterally. And so they literally move differently, don't they?

Jo Tinsley (02:34):

Yeah. And it actually, it sharpens your focus. It helps you think more clearly, that feeling when you come out from a big landscape and you come back in, sorry, you know that the cobwebs have been blown away and you're feeling a bit fresher.

Lisa Sykes (02:45):

Absolutely,

Jo Tinsley (02:46):

Yeah.

Lisa Sykes (02:46):

And it literally does allow us to what we always say, oh, I'm going to for a walk to clear my head. But it really actually does, and it quiets your brain, I think. But also you get drama in winter, don't you? Winter landscapes. They're so raw because they're just not as softened by vegetation. And I think that makes them more awe inspiring. And you get contrast too, because you get that big sky, but you also get real stillness in winter, don't you? Where it still now seems quieter.

Jo Tinsley (03:15):

And it's also even just really flat country. It doesn't have to be big malins, even flat country have these enormous big skies, but also these manmade landmarks that just punctuate the skylines. So I particularly love the North Norfolk coast in winter because you get these great expanses of salt marsh and dunes, and then you get these light houses and windmills that just,

Lisa Sykes (03:36):

And churches, you can see them from miles off, can't you? Yeah. They were properly built as beacons across flatland landscapes, weren't they? Yeah, no, it's really interesting. And actually sculpture parks, they're always really good in winter as well, aren't they? Because that's true.

Jo Tinsley (03:50):

Yeah,

Lisa Sykes (03:50):

Those sculptures, they kind of need the clean lines that you get from bare trees, don't you really? And bare hills.

Jo Tinsley (03:56):

Yeah. Yeah, it's true. And there's so much to see at this time of year. I mean there's particularly seeing winter bird flocks is something a reason to go out at this time of year. And obviously we all know about Starling murmuration and we've got those around here in Somerset where the starlings just lift off the levels at dusk and whirl around like smoke.

Speaker 3 (04:15):

Wow.

Jo Tinsley (04:16):

And it's really, really beautiful. You can actually call the Starling hotline to find out where they last roosted the night before so that you can find them. They move around a little bit

Lisa Sykes (04:26):

And you can find them in quite a few places. You, I've seen them down in Slimbridge and the wetlands there where the wetlands centre is in Gloucestershire. That is, isn't it? Yeah. But also famously you get them over the pier at Brighton and things as

Jo Tinsley (04:39):

Well. I was going to mention that. Yeah. When I lived in Brighton, I used to watch some murate around the pier. And one of the amazing things is when they're in the air, you can barely hear them. It's just as they sort of swoosh past you, you can hear their wing beats. Wow. But they're completely silent other than that. But as soon as they roost, as soon as they sort of swoop under the pier and roost in one go, they're so chatty, they're so loud. They're just all having a chat before they go to sleep.

Lisa Sykes (05:03):

Definitely. One of the loudest things I've ever seen is at S Slimbridge, actually when I went to see the wild swans that all come there in the winter as a stopping point when they're on their migration and you get all these hooper swans and Buick swans, and it's just a proper gossipy chatter with occasional arguments. I can't think of a better word to put it, but there's just this constant drama and scenes going on in front of you and little plays happening. You honestly sat there for hours. I got so cold just watching them. But it is, I dunno, there is something about even just like goldfinches in your garden, you get flocks of them in the winter in a way you don't in the summer

Jo Tinsley (05:41):

Or

Lisa Sykes (05:41):

Crows or rooks. And because there's less around, you kind of just focus in on things to watch. It's true. So you don't actually need to go very far, do you? For your wonders? I think, no. I've got to tell you about one wonder I had though, because a wood near me that I go in all the time where I what the dog. And we often see deer in there. There's loads of deer around us, but there's an albino deer that leads a little herd of deer, and I've often seen him around and about. But this particular day he appeared literally out of the foliage with one female and just stood there, just stood there and watched us. But because it was white and it was surrounded by all these dark bear trees, it was properly Harry Potter. It was like having a little patronus in the woods there.

Jo Tinsley (06:24):

That sounds amazing.

Lisa Sykes (06:26):

It was very magical. And of course it took a really hurried photo and then post it on Instagram and it was all blurry, but actually the memory will live on. So that was one of my wonders. What is it that you particularly like to see then? And obviously you like your wild birds, but there must be other things that you particularly go out for.

Jo Tinsley (06:43):

Well, I think I just like to focus in winter, even if you don't see wildlife, you can see these sculptural bear trees. You can see frost on cobwebs and seed heads. I feel like your senses are almost heightened at this time of year. Your walks are quieter and it means you can hear the crunch of your footsteps and rustling of wildlife. And I think it just changes how you interact with nature while you're on your walks.

Lisa Sykes (07:09):

No, I think it's a really good point because everything's different, isn't it? Because in woods you get new views because the trees have disrobed and more light reaches the forest floor, and yet the smell smell of the earth and the rotten leaves means suddenly your smells engaged in a way that it might not be in that same place in a different season. And of course you get texture instead of colour as well, don't you, the bark the pine needles. And actually it's a bit of a myth really, that it's a monochrome landscape in winter because the colour is just more tonal, isn't it? You don't perhaps get splashes of colour from flowers, but actually anyone who just says, oh, it's all brown out there, or they're not really looking,

Jo Tinsley (07:47):

They're just not looking closely enough.

Lisa Sykes (07:49):

I know, but also one thing that's really nice is closing your eyes when it's really windy. And I find if I close my eyes, you use your other senses a lot more, don't you? And you can actually feel the weather and somehow it makes it more appealing to be out in wind and rain when you actually feel

Jo Tinsley (08:07):

It. It's true. It's true. But I mean, on days like that, you do need to bring a flask, right?

Lisa Sykes (08:11):

Oh yeah, yeah.

Jo Tinsley (08:12):

You do need to have something to warm up because it's not the same as summer where you can sort of sit down and

Lisa Sykes (08:17):

No.

Jo Tinsley (08:18):

Yeah,

Lisa Sykes (08:19):

You definitely need some little treats along the way. So what do you put in your thermos then, Jo?

Jo Tinsley (08:24):

I quite like a sweet minty tea. It's a good pick me up, isn't it? But I mean, one thing I,

Lisa Sykes (08:30):

Yeah, because you can't have milky tea in a flask. Not with the milk already in there.

Jo Tinsley (08:34):

I was about to say that you can't have milk in a flask.

Lisa Sykes (08:37):

What is it about that that tastes so bad when you put milk in your tea normally?

Jo Tinsley (08:41):

I dunno, when it goes in, it tastes nice. It's just, it's bizarre.

Lisa Sykes (08:45):

I dunno. And actually, because I've got a few old flasks of my nans that I sort of inherited, and they're really lovely, really nostalgic. But do you remember that in the seventies when you were on picnics and actually you're younger than me, maybe not the seventies, but the point is that they had this really metallic taste that you just couldn't get rid of with whatever you put in there. Because actually I'm more of a, I've got a wide mouth, the moss that is kind of where you put soups and stews in, and I love doing that. I like having hot food when I'm out on a winter walk.

Jo Tinsley (09:17):

Nice, nice.

Lisa Sykes (09:18):

It's a sort of packed lunch, but not really. I let a bit of leftover stew in there or something like that. Nice,

Jo Tinsley (09:24):

Nice.

Lisa Sykes (09:24):

Oh, I'm feeling hungry now. It's a cold day out there. It

Jo Tinsley (09:30):

It is cold right now,

Lisa Sykes (09:31):

But also other things to marvel at Frost. Frost. We love frost, don't we

Jo Tinsley (09:36):

Do? Yeah. I mean, yeah, it's really magical, isn't it? When you wake up in the morning and you can see all the grass and the leaves and everything is just crisp with frost.

Lisa Sykes (09:45):

And I know quite a bit about frost. So tell me about the different types of frost.

Jo Tinsley (09:49):

Well, there's actually four types of frost. There's air frost when the air temperature falls below zero degrees. There's grass frost when frost forms on vegetation and ground frost where you get ice on the ground. But the most beautiful in my opinion is haw frost.

(10:05):

Yeah. That's like this fine feathery, almost needle-like frost that occurs when water vaping in the air comes into contact with solid surfaces that are already below freezing point. So these ice crystals form immediately and they grow and they're just so beautiful to see. It happens on still nights, on tree branches. You can just see it on all the vegetation.

Lisa Sykes (10:27):

And because it happens overnight, you do get that literally open the curtains and there's a magical world out there.

Jo Tinsley (10:34):

It's a real wow moment, isn't it?

Lisa Sykes (10:36):

It's beautiful. And it's sort of slightly different from snow because snow turns you into a big kid, doesn't it? And you want to rush out immediately and make footprints, but there's something much more gentle about frost, about,

Jo Tinsley (10:48):

There's a real stillness to it. Yeah,

Lisa Sykes (10:50):

Yeah, definitely. So you must get some amazing frosts on the Somerset levels, which I know is quite near you, isn't it? Because that's such a real landscape anyway, isn't it?

Jo Tinsley (10:59):

Yeah, I mean, I get both sides of it because I am on the edge of the mend. I live in a frost pocket. It's quite hard to know when to plant things, only a few minutes drive, and I'm out on the Somerset levels and it's just so beautiful on a frosty day to see there's often mist as well. And then you see Glastonbury tour emerging out of this mist, almost like an island, and you can always see it nearly wherever you are. You can see Glastonbury tour above whatever else is going on at ground level.

Lisa Sykes (11:28):

It's proper Merlin, king Arthur, all legend stuff, isn't it? It feels like that.

Jo Tinsley (11:33):

It's really beautiful.

Lisa Sykes (11:34):

Yeah. Well, of course I live in the southeast and our major problem is traffic, but actually there's one small advantage of traffic because what we often get is where water has, if it's rained and water's collected at the side of the road, but then cars going through it splashes the water onto the walls of vegetation, then as it freezes, you get these amazing ice sculptures that are just created by cars going through puddles basically. And there was one near us last year that literally drew crowds to come and see it. It was posted on the media and stuff.

Speaker 3 (12:07):

Wow.

Lisa Sykes (12:07):

The only way I could describe, it's like the Sada familia in Barcelona, the architecture, it wasn't quite as orate as that, but it's just incredible to see. And I love that idea of accidental sculptures, and it is the thing that draws me out in winter. There's always something to see, isn't there? And that's what the wonder of winter is for me, that there's always something that will catch your attention that you'll not have seen if you didn't go out.

Jo Tinsley (12:33):

That's true. That's true. And sometimes really remarkable things happen. So we have this feature in the February issue, which is about fence skating. So sometimes in East Anglia the fence will flood and then there'll be a cold snap, and it'd be just the right conditions to make safe and enchanting land to skate on. And it's very, very rare. It only happens maybe a handful of days every few years. But yeah, a photographer called Harry George Hall captured a few days of fun skating and it was just such beautiful pictures.

Lisa Sykes (13:02):

And I think what struck me about those pictures is they're so timeless because these aren't like, well, I guess some could be professional skaters who were getting a free practising , but the story seemed to suggest that they were like farmers who just finished feeding their cattle and went for a skate, or somebody who had inherited their grandparents' skates and they're flooded meadows, so it's not like it's dangerous because they're not big lakes underneath and things. I just thought it was quite incredible. And you just don't think about that happening here, really, do you?

Jo Tinsley (13:30):

No, no.

Lisa Sykes (13:31):

And another thing that happened in the past, of course, was we did a little piece on great frost fares. The Thames froze over in the 17th century, I think it was 1683, and it froze over from December right through to February, and the ice was 28 centimetres deep in places.

Jo Tinsley (13:47):

Wow.

Lisa Sykes (13:48):

I guess it wasn't measured in centimetres back in the 17th century, but someone's worked it out. They had a festival on the Thames in London, which is just so hard to believe. And they had markets and festivals and

Jo Tinsley (14:01):

Weren't they like roasting chestnuts

Lisa Sykes (14:04):

And people sold souvenir programmes for it and stuff. In fact, I think the king had a souvenir programme that's still being kept. So there's a record of it, but I think that's the thing we do love. Ice and ice worlds are endless fascination,

Jo Tinsley (14:18):

And we've got them all the way through our literature as well. And children's stories obviously. So we've got the Chronicles of Narnia, we've got the armoured bears in Feld, in his dark materials, and obviously the Disney frozen movies and the Snow Queen. All of these are really wondrous, marvellous landscapes that you get lost in as a child and continue to, even as adults watching films

Lisa Sykes (14:40):

You do,

Jo Tinsley (14:41):

There's a real draw to them.

Lisa Sykes (14:42):

Well, I think it's time for us to get a little bit lost now because if you've been listening to our earlier podcast, you'll know we take a pause at this point to read aloud a short story with a winter theme. And we print one of these in every single issue of the simple things. So here's one that's particularly magical, frost Fellows, A short story by Helen Duncan. Midnight. A twig snaps with a crack as deep in the darkness. A blue light follows the fox that slips through the cops high above the moon. Glistens stop and listen, a ringing like the sound made by a wetted finger tracing the rim of a wine glass is singing through the trees. It fills the frost pocket and resonates through the thicket. While in the distance there comes a crackle that spreads in spidery slow motion onwards and outwards then forward and away, then encroaching cold and rolls.

(15:46):

Its frozen tidings, dispatching icy formations. They span out travelling across the ground and along each and every branch until the cops is transformed, covered in a coating of hory crystals. The master of sublimation is on his way, causing moisture to turn from vapour to ice in an instant. As he passes, the fox stops in her tracks and glances back. The blue light follows, so she runs out from the wood into the open field, moonlight white on her thick, warm coat. An owl calls the night sky dances, and everything below is held as though in a trance, as the frost follows the fox from the scrub filled hollow across the field to where countryside meets the first cluster of houses at the edge of a village, rhyme forms along fences in scaly outcrops as the wind whips in from the west. The fox ducks under and wanders on through gardens thick with scents of cats, cat, dog, and small birds sweet smelling windfalls that lie forgotten.

(16:47):

At the base of a gnarly apple tree, the sickly scent of decay stops her in her tracks. She looks up at the tree, it sleeps, waiting to be woken with wasa gunshot. But why wait for the revellers? For tatter clad? Maurice dancer bedecked with pheasant feathers and bells or stick cluttering and prancing. Why wait for a king and a queen? Proclaimed by PE and by bean, the frost has reached the spot, the fox box, three sharp calls that split the frozen air as loudly as any firearm. And as the sound continues to ricochet through the frozen air, a figure tall and somewhat spiky with slender fingers that end in spiny tips can be glimpsed at the centre of a halo of glacial blue that darts about the tree among the houses two trespasses now one canine deftly navigating steps, decking and terrace where scraps left out for the birds are morsels to savour the other worldly.

(17:43):

The stuff of imaginations and children's stories loiters nearby where parked cars and houses present a gallery of glass panes to decorate with fingers. Outstretched, etched feathers begin to unfurl, turning to flamboyant arabesque and elaborate ferns elsewhere. Scrolls scratched in white upon white curl across the glassy canvases, plumes, embellish, windscreens, and a chain reaction of fluoride patterns trespass the glass top of a patio table. And then just as the first glint of morning light hits the upstairs window of a neighbouring house, the fox turns to the figure of frost. It's time to go. The fun is done.

(18:37):

So it's going to be lunar New Year next week, the 10th of February, and this year is the year of the dragon. And that's very timely because we actually have a big feature in our February shoe, which is on sale now. Quick plug on dragons and other mythical creatures. So I know Jo's got lots to say on this. She's very interested in it, but I think it's quite interesting, isn't it? How obviously it's got a big place in Chinese culture, but actually our patron saint, of course is a dragon slayer, and the Welsh flag features a dragon. So we do have quite a connection. And I think lots of places do, don't they? You?

Jo Tinsley (19:11):

Yeah, they do. All over the world. There's patron saints that are dragons. That's right.

Lisa Sykes (19:15):

Yeah. Because St. George, I read in our feature very well researched was a soldier from Cappadocia, which is now in Turkey and is also the patron saint of Georgia, Ukraine, Bosnia, Malta, Ethiopia. So lots of places celebrate St. George. But it did get us thinking about dragons. And in case you're wondering why we're talking about this, dragons of course are officially a wonder. So I think there's, there's something about storytelling and myths that fit very well into winter, don't you think, Joe?

Jo Tinsley (19:45):

Yeah, I think so. And I think one of my favourite parts of this feature was the British landscapes that have been inspired by dragon mythology. And you've probably got one near you. They're all over. The countrys near me. The Quantock in Somerset, the legend was a terrible lizard known as the T worm, which is such a Somerset sort of term. But yeah, he was dispatched. He was the worm, the Git worm. Yeah, he was killed in here. And the severed halves of his riving body make the quantock hills. And I love that, that you're looking at these hills and their shape and there's a story behind a mythology behind their formation.

Lisa Sykes (20:21):

No, that's really interesting. So there must be quite a lot of places that have got that. And this is the way the landscape was formed is related to a legend about a dragon, is it?

Jo Tinsley (20:30):

Yeah. Yeah. There's other places like Dragon Hill in Oxfordshire where legend says that St. George killed the dragon on that hillock below the upington white horse.

Lisa Sykes (20:40):

I bet there's a few places claim that though, isn't there?

Jo Tinsley (20:44):

Yeah, there's lots of St. George everywhere. And in the X Valley in Devon, there's a dragon that flies between the Iron Age forts of Dolby Hill and Cadbury Castle to protect his buried treasure. But yeah, in a twist to that, Dolby Hill is actually the remnants of an extinct volcano. So it just makes you think, where did these stories come from?

Lisa Sykes (21:03):

It's really interesting because we knew we were going to be talking about this. I remembered something about a place near me, and it's called St. Leonard's Forest, and it's like a nature reserve, but there's a legend there about hermit who battled with the dragon and his reward for slaying the dragon. It was granted, I'm not sure who by, but anyway, that snakes would be banished from the forest. I'm not sure how many snakes there were in a forest in six, but there may well be. But I think the point about these stories is they bring real magic to a place, don't they? When you know the story, and I found it especially good if you are dragging small children on a walk, it really helps to you find a hollow tree and create a story around it or tell the story behind it and they really get a bit more out of it and stop going. Can we go home now?

Jo Tinsley (21:52):

Yeah, I mean, I had one of those when I was growing up, so we always used to go to Bogger Hole, Cluff near Manchester.

Speaker 3 (21:58):

Yeah. And

Jo Tinsley (21:59):

Yeah, as a child that really captured my imagination. I used to think that a bogot was going to jump out at me, but invariably it was my dad or my brother. But yeah. And then reading about it now, just now, I was reading that a bogot is actually a mischievous spirit that is mainly in Lancashire in Yorkshire. So maybe people,

Lisa Sykes (22:17):

Oh, is that what a bogger is? I was going to ask you, what is a bogot?

Jo Tinsley (22:20):

Well, yeah, it's just a spirit that haunts people, but you can get house bogs. But the ones that I was reading about were about the haunting natural landmarks. So you have a Bogot bridge in Burnley, you've got Bogger potholes, bogger hills, so there's lots of places that are named after these mischievous spirits. And it really brings a landscape alive.

Lisa Sykes (22:40):

And it's interesting, isn't it, because you tend to, when you go somewhere on holiday, you might pick up some tourist information and you'll get the local legends, but you don't always find them out about where you actually live, do you? That's true. And I think that's a great idea to do in winter because you might not want to go so far from home. But actually finding some stories and legends about the lands around you is quite an interesting project. But telling stories is definitely a way we make the landscape come to life and appreciate the wonder of it. And there's nowhere nicer to sit and tell stories than in front of a real fire. And I'm sure my guest here will be in full agreement with that. I'm very pleased to invite Ced into the Hibernacle and Ced run with his brothers, runs Charnwood Stoves, who, as you will know, supported our whole season. So hello Ced. Welcome.

Ced Wells (23:26):

Hello Lisa. And thanks very much for having us or having me on. Yeah, it's been a real pleasure and we've sort of loved the whole tone of the podcast. It's been really good.

Lisa Sykes (23:35):

Oh, well it's very nice to hear. But as we're here to talk about fires and telling stories, what do you think it is about fires that fascinates us so much, do you think, Sid?

Ced Wells (23:43):

Well, that's a really good question. I think probably goes back to primitive times because fire has been so integral to us as us as the human race. It got us going. And I think fire, not only did it ward off danger, but it was that point that you could come to at the end of the day and sort of leave all your troubles behind and sit around it.

Lisa Sykes (24:05):

So it was obviously a really practical thing for Neanderthals.

Ced Wells (24:08):

Yeah,

Lisa Sykes (24:09):

Actually now we find it. Well, maybe they did too, but it's a deeply meditative thing, isn't it, just to watch the flames. I mean, you can lose hours whether you're outside round a bonfire or in your living room.

Ced Wells (24:21):

Exactly. And it's really interesting. We don't, as a family, we don't have a television at home because we've always got the fire on. Really? We do.

Lisa Sykes (24:28):

Do you watch your fire?

Ced Wells (24:29):

And it's funny, isn't it? Because every fire is different and there is something about experiencing, well, the way that it enlightens each of your senses, so you feel that warmth, you feel a bit of the smell, you gaze into it and you can just get lost in it.

Lisa Sykes (24:41):

Yes. It's a sensory thing, isn't it? Definitely. You are very much a part of it.

Ced Wells (24:45):

Yeah.

Lisa Sykes (24:46):

And your stoves are obviously designed to show fire off. They you have these big glass doors. And was that very much design feature you wanted to bring into them?

Ced Wells (24:55):

Yeah, well I think over the 50 years that we've been making them, 50

Lisa Sykes (24:58):

Years.

Ced Wells (25:00):

50 years, yeah, actually, well, 52 years now. We've always looked at developing it, so making the process of burning more simple, but actually more importantly, more cleanly as well, because you don't want to be breathing in the smoke and emissions and things. So it's in a sealed box and we've developed it over the years so that actually most of the combustion takes place within that box.

Lisa Sykes (25:21):

Interesting.

Ced Wells (25:22):

Which gives you a very sort of crystal clear view of the fire, so you can actually look at it in a very, very safe way. And I think more importantly than ever, I think we live in this sort of digital world. Sometimes we just need something analogue. And I think if we can make that sort of that analogue, sorry.

Lisa Sykes (25:40):

No, no, no. Let's make up our own word analogue. We love it. I could definitely buy into that, but you are right, aren you. It is that switching off and there's nothing digital about a fire is there. You have to make it. And actually there's a ritual there that is also nice. As much as making a cup of tea, I actually really building my fire in my stove.

Ced Wells (26:05):

Absolutely.

Lisa Sykes (26:06):

Clearly you need to know your stove, you need to have a little technique. But once you've mastered that, it's steady, isn't it?

Ced Wells (26:12):

Yeah. It's beautiful. And it is. It's that point of the day when you've had a long day at work, or you come in at the end of the day and you've had your supper. And it's something that is sort of the point in the day that you can actually think, right, I'm going to create something. I'm going to be present in this moment and sit and watch it.

Lisa Sykes (26:28):

Now I know looks aren't everything for your stoves and that you want 'em to be as eco and efficient as possible. And that's presumably something charmwood has been working hard on.

Ced Wells (26:37):

Yeah, absolutely. The environmental side is very important to us. Back in the day, when we first founded the company, we wanted to make wood burning as clean as possible. And I think particularly these days, air quality is very important and we believe passionately about that. We've developed ways of burning wood now that most of the combustion takes place within the firebox and you get very, very little emissions.

Lisa Sykes (26:57):

Yeah, that's great. Because we're not talking about an inefficient real fire here. Are we stoves a very technical bit of kit these days?

Ced Wells (27:04):

Absolutely. I mean, if you take a classic open fire, you light an open fire in your front room, 90% of that heat is going up the chimney with lots of smoke, with our stoves, with our most efficient stoves, they're around about 90% efficient now. So there's very few particles that are going into the atmosphere.

Lisa Sykes (27:20):

Very good. And you mentioned making in the uk, and I know you're based on the Isle of White, which sounds like a great place to be based with your work, but your family company, I know, is it your grandfather that started it?

Ced Wells (27:31):

Yes, it was. It was my grandfather and my father and an uncle. They actually had nine children, so there was quite a lot of them. But yeah, they started it in 1972, they've actually moved to the island and started mending tractors. And then in 1972, there was an oil crisis, and so suddenly overnight price of oil shot up and people were really freaking out because they didn't know how they were going to heat their homes or operate. And at the same time, Dutch Elm disease hit the uk. And so there was sort of this double whammy of disasters, I guess, and crisises.

Lisa Sykes (28:01):

Lots of dead trees,

Ced Wells (28:02):

Lots of dead trees. There was so much wood that they didn't know what to do with it. And so actually it was at that point that my uncle, father and my grandfather thought, well, why not make a little woodburn stove? Because the only stoves that were available at that time were quite large appliances that came over from Scandinavia. And there was nothing that would really fit into a small,

Lisa Sykes (28:23):

But nothing domestic in a small house.

Ced Wells (28:25):

No, no. Particularly our British fireplaces, they just seemed to be smaller. So they made this little stove and they called it the beacon, and it was very, very basic, but it burnt much more efficiently than an open fire. And they made one, and they took it to an agricultural show, and they got an order for 28, and they thought, blindy, we've only ever made one. And suddenly it just snowballed from there. So lots of people started ordering these stoves. And

Lisa Sykes (28:48):

Now you've got a range of, I dunno how many you've got in your range, but it's got to be quite a few.

Ced Wells (28:53):

Yeah, I mean it is around about 20, 25 different models

Lisa Sykes (28:58):

And some burn wood and some burn multi fuel. That's right, isn't it?

Ced Wells (29:01):

They do. Yeah. We focus more on wood now. There are still pockets of the country that do burn multi fuel. I mean, a lot of people, not so much in urban areas, but out in the sticks, out in the countryside, they rely on their wood burner completely. And it is. And that's why we want to make it as clean as possible and as efficient as possible.

Lisa Sykes (29:19):

Definitely.

Ced Wells (29:20):

Just to simplify that Woodburn process,

Lisa Sykes (29:22):

Well, you can obviously find out a lot more from Ced's team at charnwood.com, and you can also look up your local stockist too. So thanks for joining us, Ced. It's been a pleasure to talk to you and also for supporting our first ever season of podcasts.

Ced Wells (29:36):

No, it's a pleasure, Lisa. Thanks very much for having us on. The Simple Things is a favourite of ours. It sums up a lot of what we are into here on the Isle of White, just simple pleasures in life.

Lisa Sykes (29:46):

Indeed. Well, I think that's probably enough of sitting by the fire for now. So I'm going to go back to Jo Tinsley now and shall we go outside, Joe? Yeah. Picture the scene. I'm going to set a little scene for you here. It's a crisp winters day. The sky's clear. There's a weak sun. We've got the whole day ahead of us. Where are we going to go?

Jo Tinsley (30:05):

Well, I mean, I'm not at the stage of life where I'm hiking up lofty mountains at the moment, but I actually love a small hill on a winter's day.

Lisa Sykes (30:13):

Nice.

Jo Tinsley (30:13):

Yeah, you get a lot more wonder for a lot less effort, more bang for your book.

Lisa Sykes (30:19):

That's right, isn't it? Because you really don't have to climb that high to get the view to just feel like you've achieved something. Actually, it's as much about the sort of sensation of having done it as it is about where you've actually gone really, isn't it?

Jo Tinsley (30:32):

Yeah. What we're looking for here is like 300 metre lumps as opposed to 700 metre peaks,

Lisa Sykes (30:38):

That feels much more manageable. And of course in the winter when the weather can turn and mist can come down really quickly, it's safer, but also you're more likely to still get a view at the top if it's only taken you a couple of hours to get up there rather than half a day and also less daylight. You've got time to come back down again. It's true. And not be doing the thing you would do in your twenties where you'd be coming down with a torch. Left it a bit too late. Yeah, no, I think it's a good call.

Jo Tinsley (31:04):

Yeah.

Lisa Sykes (31:04):

Yeah. So where are we going to go?

Jo Tinsley (31:06):

Well, I think some hills to seek out are those which are much higher, suddenly down the surrounding area. And these are actually, these are called Marylands. I know you might've heard of Monroe.

Lisa Sykes (31:17):

Yeah, no, they are your big 700 metre lumps, aren't they? Yeah,

Jo Tinsley (31:20):

Yeah, they're the 3000 foot lumps, but Marylands are much smaller, so all they need is to have a drop of 150 metres on all sides.

Lisa Sykes (31:28):

Okay. So if the hill is 150 metres higher than the surrounding landscape, it's officially a Maryland.

Jo Tinsley (31:35):

Yeah.

Lisa Sykes (31:35):

Ah, interesting. There must be lots of these.

Jo Tinsley (31:37):

Yeah, that's right. So they don't actually have to be that tall. I've actually climbed the smallest Maryland. Have

Lisa Sykes (31:42):

You?

Jo Tinsley (31:42):

Yeah, which is onside knot enc Cumbia.

Lisa Sykes (31:45):

Oh no, that's really interesting. I know Onside knot, do you? But I have also been up there, but I've also climbed Wharton Crag, which is the hill next door, which I think an side knots actually a bit higher, but I bet warn side. Oh no, maybe one side C Craig can't be a marlin. But anyway, wor side, not wor side. What am I talking about? Wharton crag. Oh, it's such a beautiful part of the world. This, for anyone who doesn't know is Silverdale and an side, isn't it? And it's an area of outstanding natural beauty on the LANs AC Cumbria border. And it's such a top place to climb, isn't it? Because you get these amazing views across the Lake district and across Morton Bay. But I dunno whether you can see this from on side, but from Wharton crag on a clear day, you can see Blackpool Tower all the way down the coast standing there on that very flat filed coast. And it's amazing. And yet it takes you no time at all to get up there.

Jo Tinsley (32:36):

Yeah, exactly. And I think the thing about these hills, another one that I really love is the VINs, which is albeit steeper and higher, but they're so satisfying because you have this steep hike up, but then you have this long flattish ridge and you look out over 12 English counties,

Lisa Sykes (32:54):

12 counties. Wow, I didn't know that.

Jo Tinsley (32:56):

And you can see into Wales and the Black Mountains,

Lisa Sykes (32:58):

I've done a lot of mountain biking around there. And yeah, it is quite steep, but they really are, the thing I look of about the Melvins, it's like how children draw hills. They're such a, they almost don't look real, do they look almost like they've been created because they are just such an interesting shape.

Jo Tinsley (33:17):

Yeah. And what are your favourite hills? Favourite small

Lisa Sykes (33:20):

Hills? Yeah, I think so. One that's really memorable for me is because Penny fan in the Brecken vegans is actually the highest peak in South Wales, which sounds really high except all the peaks in Snowdonia are much, much higher. So it qualifies as a smaller hill, but it's one that's known to be really easy to take kids up. So I took my daughter up when she was about eight, and we did this sort of special weekend, and it was the first real hill she'd gone up. I did have to take lots of sweetss and have lots of rests, but the crucial thing I think if you're taking kids up any hill is to put them in some good kit because they get so much colder than you at the top, which I didn't realise. So she ended up wearing half my clothing at the top in the wind, but it's now 10 years later, and she still talks about that weekend and climbing that hill, it had a real impact on her.

(34:10):

So that was a pretty good small hill. And oh, there are loads I want to climb. Of course, the one other ones I really want to climb is, weirdly, you can see it from the M six. It's the closest small hill to a motorway, but I pass it a lot and it's called Fault and Fell and it leads onto hunt and roof, which is a really beautiful area of limestone pavement. But apparently, again, the views from there, obviously bypassing the motorway just stretch and stretch for miles sort of by itself. But I know because you grew up fairly near Pendle Hill, didn't you? Which is another one that's by itself.

Jo Tinsley (34:42):

I did, and that was one of the hills that I was dragged up as a child. But I do still really love it because it's such an isolated hill. It's separate from the South Pennines and the Bowling Fells, and it's just like the Marvins, it's just got such a great shape and it feels like this really untamed place. Obviously it's got the history of the witch trials and things. But when I was looking it up, one of the things that's really interesting is you know how the river Avon means River? River?

Lisa Sykes (35:10):

Yeah. Because Avon means river, right?

Jo Tinsley (35:12):

Yeah. Pendle Hill actually means hill. Hill Hill. No, you've got the Krick pen and the old English Hill, and then we just added Hill at the end of it.

Lisa Sykes (35:23):

So really it should just be called Pendle or just Pen. Oh, Penn. Yeah. Like Penny fan, of course. Yeah. Interesting. We do like names do change over time, don't they? And now that's a slightly nonsensical name, but actually that's what it's called.

Jo Tinsley (35:38):

Yeah, yeah. But I mean talking about places that I want to climb, I mean, I'd love to climb.

Lisa Sykes (35:43):

Yes, go on then. Wait, what's on your list?

Jo Tinsley (35:45):

I'd love to climb Ma tour in the Peaks because Nice. It's quite a big hill, but you can actually park near the top of it and then you've only got a hundred metres to climb to get the view. So you

Lisa Sykes (35:56):

See that would appeal to a lot of people in winter, I think. Wouldn't it? Just do the top bit. I know sometimes you think you're going to be able to do something in a day and in winter the end of the day comes very quickly, doesn't it? Although it is better now. But I think going back to this idea that how Climbing Hills has a real impact on people's lives. So one of the hills that is very distinctive that people will have seen it, even if they didn't know what it was called, is what's known as North Yorkshire's. Matterhorn, not quite, but Roseberry topping in the North York mirrors. And it's such a distinctive shape. Well, captain Cook, who people will remember, was a great explorer, climbed it in 1736 because he lived near there. And on the summit is where he decided to become an explorer and of course change the world with his voyagers. So there's never a bad reason to climb a hill, really. And I dunno about you, Joe, but I don't think I've ever had an unhappy moment on the top of a hill.

Jo Tinsley (36:48):

No, that's true.

Lisa Sykes (36:49):

There's something about being up there that

Jo Tinsley (36:51):

It's always worthwhile, isn't it?

Lisa Sykes (36:52):

That takes away your cares and worries, doesn't it?

Jo Tinsley (36:55):

Yeah. As long as you've got your flask.

Lisa Sykes (36:56):

Absolutely. Absolutely. So that's the end of our episode this week. And in fact, this is the last of our hi barnacle season. So thanks very much to Joe for joining me and also to Charnwood Stoves for supporting the whole season. Do have a look at their excellent stoves and find your nearest stockist at charnwood.com. But this season, I hope you've enjoyed it. It's brought us through from Blue Monday and mid-January right through to the first day of spring next week. Hopefully you're feeling like you've embraced rather than simply endured winter. I think I am. I definitely am after discussing all these things with my colleagues and also it's about remembering the simple things that made you happy. And maybe that's helped if you missed any of our previous episodes. So that would be comfort, calm, cheer, wish, and Wander. You can still download them from our podcast app. And if you aren't already a reader of the simple things, you can get many more small ways to live well each month in the magazine. So you can subscribe via the website, the simple things.com or on our social media channels. And our podcast is going to be back with season two later in the spring. So watch out for that. We'll let you know when it's coming. And thanks very much for listening as a small business. We really do appreciate your support. Bye for now.