The Spring Tonic Episode 5 - BLOOM

When is a weed not a weed, the wonder of bluebells and the precarious life of a tadpole. Learn how to bloom this spring, as Editor of The Simple Things magazine, Lisa Sykes looks for small ways to flourish with regular contributor and Editor of Ernest Journal, Jo Tinsley. Discussing life lessons from nature, join them as they chat about hedgerows weeds we like and why growing things is good for you. There will be time to listen to an original short story and to take a tea break with the sun on your face.

A Spring Tonic is supported by Pause, the subscription box from Mind

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Transcript

Lisa Sykes (00:06):

Welcome to a Spring Tonic. It's season two of our new podcast, Small Ways to Live Well, and we're calling this episode Bloom. I'm Lisa Sykes, editor of The Simple Things, and along with regular contributor and editor of Earnest Journal, Jo Tinsley is joining me and hopefully we're going to find small ways to flourish this spring. Hi, Jo, nice to have you back. What an uplifting subject we've got to talk about today.

Jo Tinsley (00:29):

It definitely is, and it's a good day for it. I think this is like the first sunny day we've had of spring.

Lisa Sykes (00:35):

I know. I would find this more of a struggle if it was grey out there, wouldn't you?

Jo Tinsley (00:40):

Exactly. Yeah.

Lisa Sykes (00:41):

But we're going to be learning a few life lessons from nature. We're going to be chatting about hedge rows and blue bells, weeds that we like and why growing things is good for you. As always, there'll be time to settle down with a short story, and this season has been supported by Pause. The subscription box from Mental Health Charity Mind a donation will see you receive mindful and calming activities. I sound like I need some of those in the post each month and knowing that you're also supporting minds work with people struggling with mental health issues, you can find out more@pauseformind.org uk slash simple. And the links also in our episode description. So Joe, do you think there's anyone out there who doesn't love a blue Bellwood?

Jo Tinsley (01:21):

I can't imagine that there is. I mean, we are so lucky here in the uk. We've got half of the world's Blue Bell population, and that's just incredible. When you think about how small our collection of islands are.

Lisa Sykes (01:34):

I know and blue be blue bells on masse are one of the world's great flower sites. It doesn't matter what exotic things you can see anywhere else, they've got to be right up there. And we have them here. We do. Yeah, it's incredible.

Jo Tinsley (01:48):

And they'll be out now. I mean, the average date to see the first Blue Bell is like the 14th of April.

Lisa Sykes (01:54):

Oh, is it? Oh, that's interesting.

Jo Tinsley (01:55):

I mean, they can bloom. Yeah, they can bloom anywhere between late March and early May. So it completely depends on the weather and where in the country you are. But for most people, they'll be out right now.

Lisa Sykes (02:05):

Yes, because you are obviously Somerset and that's West country. And when I used to go to,

Jo Tinsley (02:09):

They've been out for a while.

Lisa Sykes (02:11):

Yeah, when I used to go to the west country at Easter, they were always out. So I'm really lucky. I've got a blue Bellwood, literally a couple of minutes from my house in Sussex, and I go there every day. I often go there if I'm having a difficult day, but actually, even if I'm having a good day at this time of year, I go there every day for a lunchtime walk and I shall be going today. Definitely. And they are just about there. They're not quite at their most spectacular yet, but they're coming out. I just love watching it right from when they peep through in the middle of winter when you just see the tips coming through to as they go over at the end, and then you suddenly realise the trees are in full leaf and the canopy closed over and they just Ah.

Jo Tinsley (02:52):

Yeah. And as much as it's really beautiful to see these great kind of painterly sways of them, it's also really nice just to spot a few of them in a hedgerow as you're walking along just peppering the garden or a hedgerow or a field. They're joyful whenever, aren't they?

Lisa Sykes (03:08):

No, you're right. They're a sign, aren't they? They're a sign of ancient woodland. So when you find them in hedges, that tells you that's an ancient hedge. In fact, in April issue, we've got a whole identifier on other ancient woodland indicators. So do you know what any of them are?

Jo Tinsley (03:23):

I don't think I do. I don't think,

Lisa Sykes (03:25):

No. So prim roses, but obviously you do see prim roses other places as well, but if you see those in a woodland, that's a good sign. And then things like wild garlic, of course. And obviously you can't do a podcast at this time view without mentioning wild garlic because it's so fashionable.

Jo Tinsley (03:40):

We've already picked ours. It's ready.

Lisa Sykes (03:44):

Wooden enemies. I love those because they're just such delicate white flowers and they're on the floor of the woods. So yeah, those are a few of the things you'll find. And spindle berries, have you ever seen those? They're bright pink berries, so you can't miss them. Oh, the ones that look like little pieces of popcorn. Yes, exactly that.

Jo Tinsley (04:00):

We've got those in the garden. Yeah. Yeah. They're lovely, aren't they?

Lisa Sykes (04:03):

Yeah, they're great. Yeah. No, they're all indicators anyway, just we do an identifier in every issue, as you know, and we are a bit irreverent about it. It's not like a technical guide or anything, but we've done everything from different types of quality street to dog breeds or whatever. But this one is ancient woodlands, but it's not just bluebells, is it? There are other blooms on masse you can enjoy through the year as well.

Jo Tinsley (04:30):

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, one of the things that I remember most about my family's holiday when we take road trips through France is the spectacle of seeing whole fields of sunflowers

Lisa Sykes (04:41):

Amazing.

Jo Tinsley (04:43):

And the way that they kind of turn to always follow the sun, they kind of rotate to follow the sun. I mean, yeah, seeing flowers on mass is just one of those standstill and stare moments, isn't it?

Lisa Sykes (04:54):

Definitely. I watch the Tour de France every year, and you've got to have the obligatory shot of all the cyclists going through the fields of sunflowers.

Jo Tinsley (05:01):

Yeah,

Lisa Sykes (05:02):

It's just a classic shot of France, isn't it? In summer

Jo Tinsley (05:06):

It is, yeah. But there's so many here. A lot of them we've already had, even though it's so early in the year. So the snow drops come first and then the cherry blossom and the magnolias. I love seeing magnolias.

Lisa Sykes (05:18):

No, me too. I've got one in my garden and it's not a great big one yet. And so many of them are in people's front gardens, aren't they? So you see them all the time, whether you live in an urban area or a rural area. And for the rest of the year, they just sit there quietly and possibly being a little bit dull, but for about a month, they are amazing.

Jo Tinsley (05:39):

They're spectacular, aren't they? And then we've got the apple blossom to come

Lisa Sykes (05:43):

And then

Jo Tinsley (05:44):

Lavender, and I imagine probably enjoy seeing Heather, you, oh,

Lisa Sykes (05:51):

It's one of the nicest things about being up north,

(05:53):

That purple haze that you get across the Mus, but actually it's not just in the north. I worked on the isles of silly in my twenties for a little bit, and I remember afternoons just laid among the heather here in the bees and the sea, and it was just the most idyllic situation. There's something really painterly about Heather. It looks so wild and natural, and it just kind of, it's almost made for painting, but it's actually not natural at all. It's totally managed for wildlife. And in fact, for grouse shooting, they have to keep it at different ages, which is why you get Heather burning because the grouse feed on some bits and nest in other bits. So it's interesting, isn't it, how a lot of the things in our countryside we think are wild true, but actually are very much managed by us.

Jo Tinsley (06:42):

Yeah. I guess the same is true about hedgerow.

Lisa Sykes (06:44):

Absolutely. Yeah.

Jo Tinsley (06:46):

I wrote a feature about hedgerows last year for the magazine. You did?

Lisa Sykes (06:51):

Yeah.

Jo Tinsley (06:52):

Yeah. I mean, those again are things which have been around since Anglo-Saxon times, but more recently as well. And they're managed, but they're also, they're so rich ecologically.

Lisa Sykes (07:03):

Absolutely. Yeah.

Jo Tinsley (07:04):

And around me at the moment, there's haw form blossom coming out. So these hedgerows are filled with these tiny white froy little flowers,

Lisa Sykes (07:12):

And you've already had the blackthorn, which is where is the earliest blossom of all, and that's what you're going to get the slows on as well later on, aren't you?

Jo Tinsley (07:20):

And I love the way that they change throughout the year as well. So we've mentioned the Mayflower, which is this Hawthorne blossom,

Lisa Sykes (07:28):

Which

Jo Tinsley (07:28):

Billows over country lanes and sort of teams with butterflies a bit later in the year. But in summer you get ripening blackberries, you get these frothy white dumbbells of cow parsley sort of swaying along the roads, which is so lovely in Somerset. And then in autumn you get this feast of whores and hips and elderberries and damsons cots. They're so rich and changeable.

Lisa Sykes (07:52):

I know they're practically a lader. They really, they are, but they're sort of a bit overlooked. They may be not as dramatic as a woodland or something, but actually they're, we take them for granted, I think because they seem ubiquitous, because you see them on any walk apart from the very high country where you obviously get dry stone walls, hedge rows are pretty much everywhere else, but we've lost more than half of them in some parts of the country. And they're really important wildlife corridors as well. They are, yeah. They offer shelter.

Jo Tinsley (08:25):

Yeah. I think that's one of the things I found most fascinating is how animals kind of move and mingle along them. So they're space to burrow and nest and shelter from a storm and find food. But also the great crested newts will use 'em to travel between bodies of water.

Lisa Sykes (08:39):

Oh, interesting. Yeah.

Jo Tinsley (08:40):

And bats will rely on hedgerows as flight paths when they commute between their roosts and foraging areas. So they're even being used.

Lisa Sykes (08:47):

And then of course, you always get rabbit burrows in there. You, this is why your dog's always so interested in them and won't come back. They're always rooted around in the bottom of the trying to find things, aren't they?

Jo Tinsley (08:56):

Yeah,

Lisa Sykes (08:56):

Because it must smell of wildlife. But we connect with them too. We, like you say, we pick berries, we enjoy their bounty.

Jo Tinsley (09:04):

Yeah. And we, people have always found elixia and interesting things to forage and turn into potions and things from hedge shows because people used to believe there was magic in our hedgerow. Some people still do because historically they marked the boundary between civilised village life and the wild would beyond.

Lisa Sykes (09:23):

Oh, it sounds like we're getting all a bit Lord of the Rings. It's nice. But actually they are magical, aren't they? Because they just weave their way and feel boundaries are often really ancient. And like you say, they mark boundaries quite often between villages and parishes. But also our ancestors would've got food from the hedgerows, wouldn't

Jo Tinsley (09:44):

They? They would've got food, but they also would've got these medicinal plants from them as well. Every village had, every mediaeval village had cunning folk who would live on the other side of these hedgerows and would be the people that you went to when you had a cold or an ailment. They'd use hazel to make divining rods. They'd pass babies through blackberry arches to cure them from whooping cough. They would have these sort of cures and some people will still do this sort of thing. Now, hedge witches still kind of have these rituals, or at least

Lisa Sykes (10:23):

I quite like the idea of being a hedge witch planted a few hedges. I mean, I've laid a couple of hedges because I used to work for the British Trust for Conservation volunteers, and I got to try several sort of practical skills like dry steel wool and hedging. But it's such hard work,

(10:39):

And you also really need to know what you're doing to make a beautiful hedge is a very skilled thing. But I have planted quite a few native hedges just from whips. The little sticks you get about 30 centimetres tall that you plant in the winter and the first few years is heartbreaking. You have to chop a third off them each time to make sure they grow nice and thick. And it seems like it's never going to happen then, but within five years and then 10 years, you've got an amazing hedge. And it's my favourite thing in the garden, definitely. But I guess if we're talking about ways to flourish now, because we've been talking about how the countryside flourishes, but we can also flourish this time of year. And I think we can do worse than take a few life lessons from nature, because nature knows all about how to flourish, doesn't it? It's true. So our fellow podcaster, Rebecca Frank Becks, who's joining us again next week has just written a book actually on this with the National Trust called Just Dad Nature that is about just that. And we are quite taken with some of these life lessons, aren't we, Jim?

Jo Tinsley (11:37):

We are, yeah. Yeah. I mean, the one that really stuck with me is nature is never in a rush. And that's such a valuable lesson because we're always hoeing around from one thing to the other.

Lisa Sykes (11:47):

Absolutely.

Jo Tinsley (11:48):

We rarely take time to pause and reflect, and I feel like we've lost this ability to be bored, these kind of idle ways that can help germinate ideas and help us to be more productive if we can actually just slow down.

Lisa Sykes (12:03):

And so the lesson from nature there is that because nature has downtimes in its sort of cycle.

Jo Tinsley (12:10):

Yeah, exactly.

Lisa Sykes (12:11):

And it slows down a bit and rejuvenates itself really, doesn't it?

Jo Tinsley (12:14):

Yeah. And neuroscientists are coming to understand what happens to our brains when we have these sort of pauses in the way that nature does. This is when we get our most creative and intuitive thinking. So it's actually super valuable for us.

Lisa Sykes (12:28):

That is very interesting. Well, that sounds like a very valuable lesson. So the one I liked is coping with change and loss, really. I think there's no better example of impermanence than nature. It's all about the cycle of life, decay, death, rebirth. And when we notice the seasons changing and it keeps us more present and it helps us accept that we're always in a state of flux, I think obviously grief is grief and you're going to go through things like that, but actually nature can be a solace at that time. But also just understanding that this is how the world works a bit,

Jo Tinsley (13:03):

And

Lisa Sykes (13:05):

That kind of really resonated with me, but the one that I know we both talked about is life is never perfect, and that is quite important at the simple things because the word perfect is banned in the magazine. We never use it. I am waiting now for a reader to tell us that we've used it at an issue, but I'm pretty sure we don't because the whole team believes in this.

Jo Tinsley (13:26):

There's lots of eyes on it, isn't there?

Lisa Sykes (13:28):

Yeah. I used to work in women's magazines and it gets used all the time, and it's all about that striving for something impossible and that becomes quite a negative thing. So I think celebrating, appreciating imperfection is very good. And nature does that too, doesn't it? One plant may thrive and be gone the next year, but it's not about the perfect bloom, is it? No, no. It's about just reproducing and moving on and

Jo Tinsley (13:57):

Yeah, nature in its very essence is unruly and messy, and we can learn a lot from that, I think.

Lisa Sykes (14:02):

I agree. So our short story, this episode is one we printed the first spring after we began publishing the magazine, which is almost 10 years ago now, but it's a favourite of mine for showing how you can't be good at everything and how you have to adapt just like nature does. Anglo-Saxon stew a short story by Joanna Courtney, what have you got there? Eleanor asked, peering suspiciously as her daughter's clamped little hands. It's my class project. 6-year-old Lucy told her It's a garlic bulb, a garlic bulb. What do we have to do with it? Cook Lucy, giggled. No silly shame. Not another animal sculpture. No. Much easier, mummy. We have to grow it. Elena squinted at the fat bulb, grow it. She was useless at gardening. Always has been. Isn't it grown already? She asked. Hopefully Lucy rolled her bright little eyes. We have to grow more.

(14:59):

It's for our Anglo-Saxon stew. We're doing 10 66 and we're having a big battle, and our class has got to make the stew for the soldiers. They can't fight hungry, can they? Ellen suppose that was true, although she doubted hunger had been at the top of the men's concerns at Hastings we're growing the ingredients ourself. Lucy went on. The headmaster says it'll be more proper like that. Surely the soldiers didn't grow it themselves. Eleanor objected. They'd have been busy sharpening their swords, maybe agreed. Lucy Crosley. But class two are doing the swords, so we have to grow the garlic. Can't you do it, mommy, Eleanor bristled? Of course I can. I'll just look it up to remind myself. She moved towards the computer, but Lucy's next words stopped. Her dead granny would know. Granny's brilliant at gardening. Eleanor drew in a sharp breath. True. She agreed trying not to grind her teeth.

(15:50):

But this isn't Granny's project is it? But it could be. Lucy said, easily. I bet she'd come and bring some garlic from her garden. It's bound to be good. Eleanor groaned. Lucy was right. Her mum's elegant. Fingers were greener than emeralds, but that will be cheating. No, Lucy, she said firmly, we can do it. They split out the cloves as instructed on a video. It assured them that growing garlic was a dole and they added the compost and an in fertiliser and weighted nothing. Sprouted. The battle grew closer. The swords were cut from fines, plastic. The tinfoil armour polished reports came in that other grads were flourishing, but on their windowsill or were still brown garlic is the even English. Eleanor grumbled poking at the stubbornly sprout. Less cloves, tears. Lucy counted. Mrs. Cameron says, it's indi something indigenous. Do you know what that means, Lucy?

(16:45):

The little girl shrugged. If you dig it, it's in there. Ellen laughed. Pretty much she agreed only you could dig in their pot all day and nothing would be in there. Bar a few whiz clove, sorry, Mrs. Cameron said in the playground, when Eleanor admitted her problem, it was the head's idea to grow it all. If it's any consolation, I'm tearing my hair out, finding recipes for the damn thing, just buy it. No one will know. Lucy would. Eleanor thought unhappily. But as the infant Normans and Junior Saxons prepared to fight, she finally had to admit defeat our ring. Granny. Yay. Lucy cheered unperturbed. But Elena still felt a failure. And then she remembered her mother might be able to go ingredients like Merlin, but that was as far as her skills had ever gone. The day of the battle dawned bright and fair, over 200 overexcited miniature warriors, granny beamed, round fat, juicy garlic bursting from her manicured hands and Eleanor, Eleanor stood over the giant cooking pot, dishing out, fragrant pre battle stew to soldiers and parents alike. Delicious. They're pronounced very authentic. Lucy Beamed, my mum made it. She told them all proudly. She's brilliant at cooking.

(18:04):

I think trying new things, whether they work out or not, is so good for us. And we talked about this in our curious episode, which if you haven't already listened, you can still download it. But one thing you could also try is the pause monthly subscription box from Mental Health Charity Mind, which as you know is supporting this season, and we're very grateful for that. I've had a go at the origami that came in mind, and it's certainly not perfect, but it was an absorbing, satisfying thing to do. The link is in our app description, and you can find out more how you can support mine's work through paws. But one thing that absolutely looks its best at this time of year are parks and gardens. And I love my garden at this time of year. I was going to say perfect time, which is not probably the best description, but it's before the weeds all go rampant, that the life has all sprung back. And don't you think, Joe, even the most unkempt and rum garden looks pretty in May?

Jo Tinsley (18:58):

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it's when things start to come up, isn't it? Yeah, it just looks lovely. And I've let go of the idea of my garden being kind of neat and put together, so I don't mind my garden looking a bit messy.

Lisa Sykes (19:13):

I know what you mean.

Jo Tinsley (19:14):

I do like to have one part of my garden that is kind of cared for.

Lisa Sykes (19:18):

Yes, it's nice to have. I think when you step outside the bit immediately by your door, it's nice to have that a bit sort of, not formal, but just organised, isn't it?

Jo Tinsley (19:28):

Yeah. Yeah. I've got a terrace by my front door and it's just been one of my greatest joys this year. So me and my daughter have made a little wildlife pond in a Belfast sink, and we filled it with like, oh, cute. Yeah, it's really nice. We filled it these native British plants and made a little beach for the tadpoles. And it's every morning we kind of run outside to see how the tatties are doing, and it just brings us absolute joy.

Lisa Sykes (19:53):

Yeah, that's great.

Jo Tinsley (19:55):

And just seeing their various stages. They've just got their teeth, they haven't got their legs yet.

Lisa Sykes (20:02):

Now Pond watching especially Tadpoles is great, isn't it? Got, in fact, another feature in our April issue is magical creatures. Well, we have magical creatures in every issue, but the one in April is about tadpoles. And really we just appreciate a different creature. And I remember when we started this series, and it was quite a few years ago, we thought, oh, we'll do a dozen magical things. But when you start looking at it, there's a reason to find most creatures magical. So we are just keeping going and we are celebrated. We even celebrated the ones. A lot of people don't like spiders and things, but tadpoles are widely appreciated,

Jo Tinsley (20:40):

I think, aren't they? I think so. And I feel so invested in their dramas because there's so many perils to being a tadpole, which is the reason why frogs lay 5,000 eggs. There's so many things that eat them. There's fish and dragonfly, larvae and Ns.

Lisa Sykes (20:57):

Yeah, mys get them every time. Pretty much. Only last year I got loads. So I thought this year, because frogs go back to the pond where they're born to spawn, I thought we're going to get loads. And I haven't got any, so I don't know what's going on. I think maybe I missed the feast of the newts. I don't know. But there's something about new life that does make you feel better, doesn't it? Absolutely. Whether it's chicks or lambs or bunnies or they're all just so joyous. And you'd have to be a very hardhearted person not to feel, oh, life's great after seeing that, wouldn't you? It's

Jo Tinsley (21:37):

True. It's true.

Lisa Sykes (21:38):

And actually new shoots and bulbs and blossom, they all give you the same thing as well, don't you? But I do tend to embrace wildness because I think I've gardened for a long time and I've grown my own veggies for a long time, and I think probably I have less time now for tending my garden than I've ever had. So over the last few years, I have let it do its own thing a bit. But I do love gardening because however little or often you do it, it just makes you feel good and it's actually physically good for you as well. Yeah, I know we've talked about this, haven't we?

Jo Tinsley (22:08):

Yeah. It's not just the fresh air that makes the gardening good for us. It's also the soil, it's also the microbes and the friendly bacteria within the soil. It can actually boost the health of our guts, our immune system, and even just make us generally happier. So there's lots of reasons why getting your hands dirty is actually good for you.

Lisa Sykes (22:28):

I think that's so true. And I think what I find interesting about the piece we ran, and this was published in our flourished, which is we do a collection every so often of wise ideas for living well that are mainly wellbeing pieces. And this one particularly resonated with me because it's not. So there's two ways that gardening helps really. And one is by nourishing the soil that then nourishes the plants that nourish us. That is a double way to make it. The health benefits are increased, but also the microbes in soil that help plants grow are similar to the microbes in our good, which the whole good bacteria thing. And so actually it makes real sense to nourish the soil that's growing the things we eat. But then the second part of that is what you were just talking about, which is using less hand sanitizer and chemical detergents and getting more dirt in our fingernails is actually really good for us. And if we don't grow your own, even just buying from markets rather than supermarkets where produce is not washed and packaged is going, some of those little microbes are going to get into your system

Jo Tinsley (23:38):

And

Lisa Sykes (23:38):

That's going to help.

Jo Tinsley (23:39):

Exactly. Even just picking blackberries, something like that will be getting these good bacteria into our bodies.

Lisa Sykes (23:46):

And I also read that just picking things up off the ground, which we do less of now, whether it's a stick or a pebble or whatever. Again, you're going to get some things on your fingers that actually are good for us. But also hiking. You can inhale microbes as well.

Jo Tinsley (24:01):

I didn't know that.

Lisa Sykes (24:02):

Yeah, very interesting. So I think gardening, its official growing makes you flourish and bloom, and something else that flourishes this time of year, of course is weeds. And I think we're at that very tipping point at the moment, aren't we? Where the weeds have not yet taken over our lives, but they're coming. But do weeds get a bad press, do you think?

Jo Tinsley (24:24):

I think so. And there was an interesting feature in the magazine, which was just thinking of them differently. So think of them as rebels and maverick. I love that rather than problems, which really stuck with me because weed is just a plant in the wrong place.

Lisa Sykes (24:41):

Absolutely.

Jo Tinsley (24:42):

It's only a weed if we decide it is. We shouldn't let other people decide what brings us joy in our gardens.

Lisa Sykes (24:49):

No. And I mean, yes, there are some weeds probably bind weed is never, I mean, although they do have lovely white flowers is never going to be anyone's favourite. It is really hard to get rid of them once you've got them. But things that just selfe and forget me nuts, right? Forget me. Nuts technically are a weed. They take over my veg patch every year, but I can't bear to pull them out when they've got lovely pretty little blue flowers and they look so gorgeous as you come outside. So I'm sorry, my veg is just going to have to wait and they won't be until they've died back because why would I want to pull those up?

Jo Tinsley (25:23):

It is the same in my garden with little alpine strawberries everywhere.

Lisa Sykes (25:27):

Oh, I love those. And they just cover every bit. I've got lots on the gravel bit where they just seem to the warmth of it and they've gone everywhere as well. And I think some weeds of course. Well, let's look at it. You can either weed your garden, which is one form of work, or you can restrict the weeds, which is not actually that much work, but you can reduce the vigour by cutting them back, or you can kind of deadhead them so they don't set seed, or you can dig the roots out and there's something quite satisfying, isn't there? And one of the things in the simple things we talk about a lot is the satisfaction of a job well done and weeding with a hoe and a fork in a quite old fashioned way. He is actually quite a satisfying way to spend an hour, isn't it?

Jo Tinsley (26:10):

Is, yeah. The writer who wrote this feature also had some quite radical ideas of welcoming weeds into your life. So starting with the weed itself and then planting ornamental plants around it that are going to work with it because it makes long-term sense rather than battling.

Lisa Sykes (26:27):

No, definitely

Jo Tinsley (26:28):

Against this weed is sort of saying, well, that seems to do well there. How do we work around

Lisa Sykes (26:33):

This? And in the end, if you like it, why wouldn't you leave it there? Yeah, exactly.

(26:38):

So okay, let's talk about our top three weeds then. Okay. So I definitely buttercups, buttercups are not a weed should never be a weed. A meadow buttercups is as just as a wondrous site as bluebell. But also I love it when they get into my garden and the creeping buttercup, the low line ones are less nice than the meadow butter cups, but I end up with both in my garden and I'm not going to pull those up. Well, I might at some point, but I'm going to let them flower because I like them.

Jo Tinsley (27:10):

I really love field puppies. They get blown into my garden from the farmland behind.

Lisa Sykes (27:17):

Yeah,

Jo Tinsley (27:18):

I mean they're enormous. They sort of come up in my veg patch. There's always a bit of space and yeah, they're just gorgeous sort of billowy petals.

Lisa Sykes (27:26):

Well, they love a veg patch, don't they? Because they need disturbed soil, don't they? So that's why they grow in land that's been ploughed because I've planted poppies before and then had a great show the first year and then next year had nothing. And it's because you have to turn the soil over again. They need disturbed soil. So that's great that you get them though, just by happenstance. Exactly. Which is very nice, isn't it? So my second favourite weed is speed. Well, I don't actually know speed. Well, it's tiny little blue flowers and you get it in your lawns, but I think it's mainly if your lawn's a bit uncared for which mine often is, or it's almost kind of letting the grass grow a bit longer, but they're low lying and they're so tiny that you almost don't notice them. But when you do, they're just so pretty and you need to get up close and personal.

(28:19):

I think. In fact, we are just doing a piece I'm working on at the moment called a one metre safari, which is where you ecologists when they're surveying something, they have what's called a quadrat, isn't it? Where you've a metre square and they put it on the ground and you basically look at all the species that are in that square and it gives you a real good indicator of what else is around. We are talking about doing this in theory. You don't have to make a metre square and take it on a walk with you, but getting really up close and personal with a very small bit of your garden and just stopping and noticing, and obviously it's a really calming thing to do as well. I really like that.

Jo Tinsley (28:57):

I think it's a really good idea.

Lisa Sykes (28:58):

Yeah,

Jo Tinsley (28:59):

Because it doesn't have to be somewhere out in the wild. No, it could be a favourite tree or your garden or a window box or for me, a pond. Absolutely. Yeah. But there's so much going on in such a small idea. It would really help with just paying attention and being mindful and present.

Lisa Sykes (29:17):

Absolutely. I took you away from weeds there. I haven't heard your other top three weeds.

Jo Tinsley (29:22):

Oh yeah.

Lisa Sykes (29:23):

What have you got apart from poppies?

Jo Tinsley (29:24):

So also thistles. They're hard to pull up and spiky, but they're so beautiful. They come about the same height as the field poppies and these great kind of sculptural shapes.

Lisa Sykes (29:37):

And you do get lots of insect life on them, don't you?

Jo Tinsley (29:40):

Yeah,

Lisa Sykes (29:41):

When they come into flour and I mean you wouldn't want 'em taking over, but they are easy to get rid of if you need to pull them out. But actually I do like to leave a few. Definitely. And I think my last one is probably the most pervasive weed I have in my garden, but at the same time I can't help but admire it for that very sort of fery determined ness. And its brambles because I have a whole bit of my garden that is now a big bramble patch, and I do chop it back every year to sort of stop it going too mental. But it means I get blackberries in my garden. Why wouldn't I like that?

Jo Tinsley (30:18):

We started to get that coming over from behind and it's lovely to just,

Lisa Sykes (30:22):

Yeah, they're just so vigorous, aren't they? And I think I used to try and get rid of them, and actually I've abandoned that now, and now I get black priest every year, which is great. And your last one, Joe, you've only done two.

Jo Tinsley (30:34):

I think it's something that I've already talked about earlier. I think just wild strawberries.

Lisa Sykes (30:38):

Oh yeah.

Jo Tinsley (30:39):

They're just lovely and they picking them and eating them all, just the lovely little white flowers and the way that they spread down steps or walls so you can clear them from the veg patch if you want to, but they just kind of fringe the edges and make everything feel really natural. Nice. So yeah, I love

Lisa Sykes (30:57):

Those. I think it's official. We do like weeds, we, and we also not mowing as well, don't we Not mowing and seeing what comes up. I got an orchid in my lawn last year because I didn't mow for several months over the summer and it just made my day. So I think that's a very good thing to do for wildlife and for us, and let things bloom. That's our message, isn't it?

Jo Tinsley (31:20):

Yeah, absolutely.

Lisa Sykes (31:21):

So Joe, you worked with us last year as an editor, commissioning features on Nature Travel and the Outdoors. And I know you really liked my plot series that we do, didn't you?

Jo Tinsley (31:30):

I really did. Yeah. I love that we're focusing, we don't focus on show gardens. We are sort of talking to people with real plots that are like ours and finding out what mistakes they've made, what they've learned from it and why they bring them joy. And I think some of the ones that really stayed with me are the people who, the reason that they were doing the gardening was for their own mental health. And one of the last issues I worked on, there was a fantastic one beside the Leeds and Liverpool Canal called the Physics Garden. It was the UK's first physics garden for women.

Lisa Sykes (32:03):

Oh yeah, I remember. Yeah.

Jo Tinsley (32:05):

Which actually opens to the public this May. And it's a collaboration between an arts and social justice project called Idle Women and Raz, which is a women's refuge, and they've grown sort of 130 types of medicinal plants and none of them are gardeners. Well, I mean they've got Alice Fowler who's helping them. Wow. But everyone else is like theatre performers and just like people in the community as well.

Lisa Sykes (32:28):

It sounds a great project. And that's the thing, isn't it? I think a lot of people who do my plots, who really try and achieve something with their garden also end up benefiting mental health too.

Jo Tinsley (32:40):

Absolutely. I mean, the philosophy of this project is no one is an expert and everyone is curious and I love that. That's the sort of thing that we can take into our gardens, just being curious about what the plants are and what they can teach us.

Lisa Sykes (32:55):

Well, I think that sounds a very good place to end. Thank you very much, Joe, who I'm sure is as full of intentions to get out there and do this as I am. We'll be looking at our plants in detail, celebrating those weeds, won't we? Absolutely. And thanks also to pause the subscription box from Mind who's supporting this season of the podcast. Don't forget, you can find out more and support their work@pauseformind.org.uk slash simple. And I'll be back next week for the final episode in this season with Becks, our wellbeing editor, and she's joining me for Sing in which we explore small ways to be happy. Don't worry, we're not going to be actually singing as I'm not sure that would make anyone happy, but do join us and thanks very much for listening.