Everyday Holidays Episode 3 - POTTER

Slow adventurer Jo Tinsley is back with The Simple Things’ Editor Lisa Sykes appreciating some of the best ways to waste time when you can this summer. First stop is at the beach where they collect sea glass and hagstones, make a sundial and explore rockpools. Then it’s back home to not get busy in the garden and linger outdoors into the night. Have a go at our collective nouns quiz, just because…

Small Ways to Live Well is a podcast from The Simple Things, a monthly magazine about slowing down, remembering what’s important and making the most of where you live.

To subscribe or order a copy of the magazine visit thesimplethings.com

Editing by Arthur Cosslett.

Transcript

Lisa Sykes (00:14):

Hi, I am Lisa Sykes, editor of The Simple Things. Thanks for joining us for season three, episode three of Small Ways to Live Well. Now, this season we're talking about high summer slow living, and our theme is everyday holidays. We're just seeking those moments where you slow down a little and just take time to appreciate your contentedness. So whether you're off or simply taking time out, we think that everyday holidays are there to be had this summer. And in each episode I'm going to be exploring a different aspect with colleagues and contributors from the Simple Things, our monthly magazine, which explores much of what we discuss here, but in more depth and with beautiful pictures. So all the details for buying and subscribing to the magazine are in the show notes. Today I'm having a potter with Jo Tinsley, who's editor of Ernest Journal, an author of several books including one about slow travel. Hi Jo. Welcome back. Pottering is an essential part of slowing down in summer, don't you think?

Jo Tinsley (01:07):

Oh yeah, definitely. I mean, ideally at this time of year we wouldn't work at all. Instead, we'd just summer at the sea or hide away at the mountains.

Lisa Sykes (01:16):

Oh, that would be so nice, wouldn't it?

Jo Tinsley (01:18):

Yeah, just days of slow, simple pleasures and long carefree nights in the real world. It's more about taking time now and again to Potter, to idle, to drift. There's no such thing as wasting time in high summer.

Lisa Sykes (01:31):

I think that's a mantra we should all go by, that there's no such thing as wasting time in high summer. I'm going to adopt that for my summer for sure. But it is all about finding ways to meander through summer, isn't it? And I don't know about you, but the one place where I think it's easy to be idle is the beach.

Jo Tinsley (01:48):

Yeah, I agree. Things feel really different to the beach, and it's a place that I've got a three-year-old and even with a three-year-old, I don't feel like you need to bring very much. You can just get down there and find things to do. Just

Lisa Sykes (02:02):

That is a definite bonus when you have a toddler. You've got so much kit usually, aren't you? Yeah,

Jo Tinsley (02:07):

Exactly.

Lisa Sykes (02:07):

But it's true. I think part of it is because the purpose of the beach is really for leisure, isn't it? People are generally in a good mood there, aren't they?

Jo Tinsley (02:15):

Yeah, exactly. And there's just so much to do. There's obviously building sandcastles, everyone. I feel like the desire to be a sandcastle architect is really strong in many of us.

Lisa Sykes (02:26):

And it doesn't leave you, does it? Even when you've grown up, it's like you still want to build the best castle on the beach, really, Don.

Jo Tinsley (02:32):

Exactly, exactly. And there's lots of things as well that you see children on the beach and the parents are actually really more into it.

Lisa Sykes (02:39):

Kids, kids get bored after five minutes.

Jo Tinsley (02:41):

Yeah,

Lisa Sykes (02:41):

Yeah. But yeah, I dunno. And it's that thing about damning things and diverting something into love that to see. And it's kind of really basic, isn't it?

Jo Tinsley (02:52):

It is. Yeah. No, I love that when there's a river or stream running through and you can kind of create bridges and dams,

Lisa Sykes (02:58):

But

Jo Tinsley (02:58):

I also just making patterns, mandalas and things like that on the beach, I mean, they're so

Lisa Sykes (03:04):

Easy to do. It's a real idle pleasure, isn't it? It's like practical definition of it, just finding what's in front of you and messing around with

Jo Tinsley (03:12):

It. And it's something that goes back to a mandala, this ancient kind of art form. It goes back to early human history and the spirals and concentric circles that you used to find in cave art. But you can just do that on the beach with a stick. You draw these concentric circles and then just find different objects to put within those circles, and it's really beautiful and really meditative.

Lisa Sykes (03:32):

And once you get your eye in this, so much to find on the beach, isn't it like collecting things? So we just did a piece in our July issue about, and in fact, I should say July and August issues both still on sale. You can buy them at our online shop, pix ink.com, and it's collecting. I don't think I know anyone who doesn't like seaglass something so beautiful about it and the way it's been shaped and smoothed by the sea over,

Jo Tinsley (03:59):

They feel really nice in your hands. They, I know they're

Lisa Sykes (04:01):

Really tactile, but this was really interesting. I didn't actually know this, but in Sea Hall Beach, in county Durham, they used to be a glass manufacturer there until about the twenties. And of course back then they just dumped all their waste in the North Sea, but now it's gradually been returned after being in the sea for a long time and brought back by the tide to the beach. There are really rare shades there.

Jo Tinsley (04:26):

That's the thing, isn't it? Looking out for all the different colours

Lisa Sykes (04:29):

To coy and orange. I mean, as she said, it's not just your pale splinter of a Pinot Grigio bottle here, which I think is quite popular. I think lots of people know about it and go there, but that would be amazing. And just looking at the pictures in the magazine of what she found was really cool. So then when we came up with a project as well, and you can make a little pendant or a wire wrapped ring. I mean, obviously you can drill into your sea glass as well, but these are just projects where you can literally stick them together. So very easy. I quite fancy a bit of that.

Jo Tinsley (05:01):

That sounds lovely. I mean, I also like looking for hag stones. Have you ever found a hag stone? A hag stone? So hag stone is a stone of a naturally occurring hole in it, so it's a bit like a polo mint.

Lisa Sykes (05:13):

Oh yeah.

Jo Tinsley (05:14):

And they're also called Odin stones. Adder stones, witch stones. They're often found where there's flint, but I found them in chalk, which Oh, nice. Inly fall apart when you try and travel with them, but they're really beautiful. So yeah, I used to find loads when I lived in Brighton and I even find them in the garden now. We've got flint pebbles down in various parts of the garden.

Lisa Sykes (05:31):

And do we know why the holes are there? Are they just the way they've been eroded?

Jo Tinsley (05:36):

Yeah, I might get this wrong. There's lots of different theories for it, but some have, there's this little thing called a boring Pitt that kind of makes the hole and then it kind of gets bigger and bigger. Oh wow. But yeah, I'll have to look that up.

Lisa Sykes (05:49):

No, no, sorry, didn't want to put you on the spot there, Joe. No. One of the projects that I really like that we also featured in the magazine before is making a beach. And so what you do is you get a long stick and you get 12 shells or pebbles. You need a watch and a compass if you've got one, but you do need a few hours because actually it gets more accurate the longer you make it. So first of all, you slant the sticks slightly towards the north and on the hour you look at where it points the shadow of it, and that's where you put your pebble. And actually you don't even need to do it on the beach, you can do it at home on your patio.

Jo Tinsley (06:22):

So do you have to stay there for 12 hours?

Lisa Sykes (06:24):

Well, I mean I think obviously the longer you stay, the more accurate it gets, but obviously you can come back the next day and pick it up again.

Jo Tinsley (06:30):

And if it was in your garden, you could keep coming back at different times and do it in the week, didn't you?

Lisa Sykes (06:34):

Exactly. That's and apparently you can do it with a straw and a paper plate as well. You don't even have to have any natural ingredients, so to speak. But I think that's great. I'm going to set one up in my garden this summer. I think that'll be really cool until once somebody comes past and goes, oh, what's the shell doing here? And picks it open. Ruin ruins your project. But yeah, no, I like that idea. I really like in Nook, shucks, because I once went to the Arctic and there are those piles of rocks that balance on each other.

Jo Tinsley (07:01):

And

Lisa Sykes (07:02):

In the Arctic of course, they used to use them to signpost where people had gone and which way they were going and stuff because there wasn't wood or anything to kind of make a sign out of you can spend hours on a beach just messing with rocks, trying to balance them.

Jo Tinsley (07:16):

And there's those places where people have really gone to town with it. I remember turning a corner in a camper van, maybe the Applecross Peninsula somewhere really remote in Scotland and just seeing a beach that people had just spent ages building these up and there was just hundreds of them all over the beach. Nice. Looked amazing. Like a sculpture park.

Lisa Sykes (07:33):

I do a rock pool on a beach though, and if a beach hasn't got rock pools, I'm slightly disappointed because again, they're like little worlds, aren't they?

Jo Tinsley (07:41):

Yeah. I love a rock pool too. And yeah, it's always like another element to add to your day out at the beach, isn't it?

Lisa Sykes (07:48):

And

Jo Tinsley (07:48):

There's just so many things to find. What's your favourite thing to find in a rockpool?

Lisa Sykes (07:52):

Well, I do like an enemies. I always say them wrong though.

Jo Tinsley (07:56):

That sounded right.

Lisa Sykes (07:56):

I often want to say an enemy, isn't it? Yeah. And I love the colours of them, but that's the thing about Rockpool is you can't really take things out of them. They're just designed, they look more beautiful when they're in the Rockpool, don't they? Because when you get seaweed out, it just goes all me. But actually in the Rockpool, it's like this magical fronds drifting in this current,

Jo Tinsley (08:19):

It really makes you pay attention,

Lisa Sykes (08:20):

Doesn't it? Yeah, they are just, it's like looking into the world's best fish tank, isn't it? Sort of thing.

Jo Tinsley (08:26):

Yeah.

Lisa Sykes (08:26):

What's your favourite thing then?

Jo Tinsley (08:28):

I think it's got to be starfish, just it feels really special when you find them. So yeah, we've got several types in the uk. We've got these bold orange starfish, the common starfish, which is a sort that you'd imagine in children's literature, how you'd imagine a starfish. They're fairly common and sometimes they get washed up in their hundreds after storms. Oh really?

Lisa Sykes (08:49):

Wow.

Jo Tinsley (08:49):

Yeah. And then there's spiny starfish, there's brittle stars which have these slim kind of feathery, and there's one called a Bloody Henry Starfish, which is a deep kind of reddish pink.

Lisa Sykes (09:01):

Interesting. Because they're actually, they're predators, aren't they? I mean, we think they're cute, but they actually just devour things they

Jo Tinsley (09:10):

Do. They prize open muscles and reduce them to soup there

Lisa Sykes (09:14):

Really? They're really quite evil. But I dunno, there's something very beautiful about them, isn't there? Whereas there's some creatures that you kind, they're evil and they look evil, but star, fishy kind

Jo Tinsley (09:24):

Go, oh, bless. Do you know? Can I check a few starfish back?

Lisa Sykes (09:30):

Go see what I know about starfish.

Jo Tinsley (09:34):

Do you know how many legs they've got?

Lisa Sykes (09:38):

Five.

Jo Tinsley (09:39):

Yeah, well, almost right? They don't have any legs. They have five arms. But I mean there's different, different starfish with different types. Most of the species we have have five arms.

Lisa Sykes (09:48):

So why are they called arms rather than legs then? I don't know.

Jo Tinsley (09:51):

They're not sure

Lisa Sykes (09:52):

Because I suppose they're more like a tentacle almost, aren't they?

Jo Tinsley (09:56):

Yeah, it's true. They can actually regenerate from, there's an old sort of story that if they miss an arm, they can grow it back.

Lisa Sykes (10:03):

And is that really true? I was going to ask you if that was true. It's

Jo Tinsley (10:06):

True. But they can actually grow whole again from just one arm or from the central part of their body.

Lisa Sykes (10:12):

So

Jo Tinsley (10:12):

It's actually really, really remarkable.

Lisa Sykes (10:14):

That's amazing, isn't it?

Jo Tinsley (10:15):

Yeah.

Lisa Sykes (10:16):

I hope some scientist is kind of looking at what it takes to do that and wondering if we can bring that into human growth or something. Sorry, I'm clearly way out of my depth here, so let's move on. A bit too futuristic for me, but that is very cool. And any more starfish facts then? Come on.

Jo Tinsley (10:36):

So in many species, starfish are all born male.

Lisa Sykes (10:39):

They are not really,

Jo Tinsley (10:41):

And then they become female when they get to a certain size.

Lisa Sykes (10:44):

Okay. Yeah. Interesting. So I wonder if that's one of those things that gets affected by water pollution when they do. Oh, you end up with too many males or too many females.

Jo Tinsley (10:53):

Could be, yeah,

Lisa Sykes (10:54):

Quite interesting.

Jo Tinsley (10:55):

And also they don't actually have brains or even blood, they just use sort of filter seawater to pump nutrients through their nervous system. So I'm not actually sure how they work. They're

Lisa Sykes (11:06):

Such are very economic, they don't need much and they can regrow themselves and yeah, no, starfish are cool. I'm even more into them now, but there's loads of things in, I mean, bigger rock pools, of course you can explore like a snorkelling, can't you? And

Jo Tinsley (11:22):

When we went down to Cornwall recently, we were always looking out for these tidal pools that you could go in at certain times of the day and just snorkel and see all these wonders.

Lisa Sykes (11:30):

Yeah, no, I must admit, I think I'm not really a diver. The one time I went diving was in Spain and I hyperventilated the whole time because I was just overthinking it and thinking, why am I underwater like this? And the only time I stopped type of ventilating was when I saw an octopus, which was so amazing that actually I relaxed for a moment and we just watched it. But I do like snorkelling. I do even putting a mask on and just peering under the waist. It's very cool, isn't it?

Jo Tinsley (11:58):

I'm exactly the same. I'm exactly the same. And there's so many places around the UK you don't have to go abroad to see some marvellous things. So did you know that in Studland Bay, in Dset as these seagrass meadows, which are incredible as they are, but they're seahorses. Oh,

Lisa Sykes (12:12):

Seahorses. They're like a made up creature. They They're almost a unicorn really in their wondrousness, aren't they? And they're so tiny. Do you

Jo Tinsley (12:23):

Know what you say? Some of them are, but the ones in Studland Bay are about sort of 16 centimetres. Oh really? Okay. Yeah, the largest one was 22 centimetres. So some of them can be really tiny, so you've probably seen them at aquariums. But yeah, they do get quite big.

Lisa Sykes (12:39):

So we're liking going to the beach, aren't we? And I think it is because we cover an outing in every issue of the magazine. And this is the idea is it's a spontaneous day trip and surely the best spontaneous day trip is the beach.

Jo Tinsley (12:51):

Yeah, exactly. There's always a feeling of joy when you are taking a spontaneous trip to the beach, isn't it?

Lisa Sykes (12:57):

Definitely. And I still get excited about it now if you know you're going to the beach for the day, it's like a big deal, isn't it? But we've asked our readers about what are their favourite beaches before and I think everybody has their own reasons for going to the beach. They someone's to swim. We've talked about sandcastles and sometimes it's about a really great cafe or an ice cream parlour, but there's so much nostalgia attached to beaches. Our child does holidays nearly always involve the beach, didn't it? I dunno where you went, but we used to go to the Flint Peninsula near Abok. There were long beaches. It was a microclimate. There was an Italian pizzeria, which was a very big deal in the 1970s because there was no P express and we had these endless days on the beach, whatever the weather. I mean literally you were always on the beach and you must have had the same thing. Childhood holidays on the

Jo Tinsley (13:56):

Beach. Yeah, I mean we probably went to similar places like Mor Bay Black pool ness. They were the kind of closest places we could get to. And I do wonder because like you say, in all weathers, we used to go to these places, but nowadays I really like wild desolate beaches as much as I really beautiful coves as well. I like dungeons in Kent for it's like of the worldliness and the wilder beaches of the Gower, like whitford burrows where you have these incredible sand dunes and a pine plantation that comes right down onto the beach. And these views of this gorgeous cast iron lighthouse. I love places like that. They're not your traditional beach, but really, really nice.

Lisa Sykes (14:37):

That sounds very special. Yeah, I like it when you sat on the beach is not just the sea when you've got a bit of headland or an island because as you know, I really like maps and I like to get the map out and sort of see where I am and get a sense of place. And one of the reasons I love Morgan Bay is because you've got all the Lakeland Fells across and so you get this amazing view beyond the sea. Maybe it's just because I don't really like the expanse of the sea going on and on forever to infinity and beyond, but there are lots of different types of beaches I think. And one of the things I've been enjoying recently is because I live in Sussex and lots of the beaches, there are pebble beaches, so they're not necessarily sandy bucket and spade type beaches. But I've been going with the dog to find beaches that are new to me really. And I found loads of great places that I just didn't ever go to before because the Su six coastline's quite built up. But there are definitely places that you can find where you can just go. And usually it's the dog walkers there as well and it's quite empty and I think that's really nice.

Jo Tinsley (15:42):

I think that's really nice just to have a new reason. Our reasons for going beach will change for our lives, whether you have kids or a dog or things like that. But even just like a hobby, like finding somewhere to sketch or if you really get into collecting fossils or collecting gemstones or pebbles, then you'll go to those kind of beaches to seek them out and you'll end up at absolutely new places where there's not that many people and it's just, yeah, an Ireland nation, we've got so many places to explore. It's good that it always feels new.

Lisa Sykes (16:10):

We need to get out there. And I'm glad you mentioned fossils, Joe, because in our story, this episode I've chosen, it's actually quite a recent one that we ran in the magazine and it's set on a beach, but it also captures those magical moments and special finds you can come across if you just slow down a little. And Potter Spiral by Beth Maury. The beach was quiet, summer sun fading. At this time of day, hunters were fewer hunched against the evening, chill, halfheartedly, turning stones the horizon, spanning a vista and changed in centuries. I'd seen families like this many times frazzled parents trying to contain their frustration as a small boy, usually a boy, but not always stared intently at the rocky shoreline, he wore a backpack glasses slipping down his nose as he squinted into seawater spray. Soon they drag him away before he could claim his prize.

(17:10):

Perhaps we could come back tomorrow, said the mother, hopefully when it's lighter her son shook his head. It rained this morning, washer stuff up or another beach. Suggested the father up the coast. She found the Aki saw here. The boy said who? He glanced up incredulous. I just told you Dorothy, a Boyd, when she was eight like me, a whole athe saw his parents probably wouldn't know an Aki saw if it fell on them, but not everyone around these parts knew the story. 80 years ago, Dottie Boyd, a school girl, found a school then the rest of the skeleton buried in the cliff face. It went on display in the museum and little Dottie went on to become a renowned palaeontologist. Professor Dorothea Boyd Johnson, a whole wing in the museum, the Boyd rooms dedicated to her fines, a legend amongst fossil hunters. The amateur turned pro, dabber turned Dianne a hero to this little boy and so many like him.

(18:09):

It's getting late, said the mother despairingly. Five more minutes the boy pleaded. His parents retreated, defeated as the boy headed towards the looming shelter of the cliffs. Hello? Old fellow. I said not having much. Look, he jumped back in alarm. I didn't see you. I walk here every day, I smiled, pushing back my hood. What are you looking for? The boy shrugged. Silky. And a Keith saw that's a bit ambitious. How about an ammonite? He stared at me suspiciously. Can you find one? We crouched by a tidal pool. You want a nodule? I said, not any old's rock. I pointed to a lumpy, fist sized stone under the surface tentatively he plucked it from the water look around the edge. I said, do you see? He ran a chubby finger around the circumference. This a pale grey line. Glisten. That's it. Where's your hammer? He delved into his ruck sack.

(19:05):

Got it. Just tap gently on the crack. His first thunk missed entirely hitting the rock beneath he grinned at me, setting the nodule back in place. His second attempt was dead on the crack widening enticingly. Now pull it apart with your fingers gently. He prized the nodule apart, revealing the swirling beauty inside his breath, caught his eyes wide with wonder and ammonite, he whispered. Reverently. Yes, I replied. Show your family. He scampered away cradling in his prize as tenderly as a baby bird. Look what I found. Wow, Harry, that's amazing. An ammonite. Millions of years old. Brilliant workmate. The old lady helped me. His parents both turned towards the Rockpool. Who? Harry gestured. Vaguely. Oh, the old lady. They exchanged puzzled glances, but the lady was soon forgotten. In the excitement and relief of the find, they left a loving huddle. But I stayed on the beach revolving round my point. I was always here because I couldn't stay away. It was the scene of my first triumph mine. And now maybe he would pick up where I left off.

Jo Tinsley (20:24):

Oh, that was a really beautiful story. I mean it does feel so special, doesn't it? When you get your eye in and you discover a fossil and it's not just a feeling that's reserved for kids either. I still feel that every time that I find something on the beach,

Lisa Sykes (20:37):

I know it just fills you with pleasure really, doesn't it? That you've spotted something, you've got it. You can see what it's all about. And I really like the story. I mean I know there's a little ghost thing in there, but I just think actually you are that kid finding that ammonite and I found an amite and I felt exactly like that when I got one.

Jo Tinsley (20:59):

Yeah, I found a few the other day. We went to Charmer for recently and we ended up with Pocketfuls of Ammonites.

Lisa Sykes (21:05):

Nice.

Jo Tinsley (21:06):

We were with someone who could show us in the story exactly what type of rock to find them in. But also the regular fossil hunters, they just leave these imperfect ammonites as in when they're like a half, like a cre.

Lisa Sykes (21:17):

Oh. So yeah,

Jo Tinsley (21:17):

They leave them on top of rocks. They don't need them, but they're incredible things to take home. Nice. And they're in Iron Pirate, which is fool's gold. So they've got this kind of bronzy coldness to them. They're really beautiful.

Lisa Sykes (21:29):

But I think the important thing is, is that you can only find that stuff by pottering. You need to drifting opens the possibility for happy accident, doesn't it? And who knows what will discover when we let go a little. And I think it's just not about mapping out your time too much. Yeah, it's

Jo Tinsley (21:46):

True. I mean, I dunno about you. I find it really hard to do. I mean especially when I'm at home, the only time that I find it easy to be idle I find is on a train journey. Can't when you can't get online or you haven't brought a book or something like that and you can just stare out of the window. I did it recently on a trip to Switzerland from Somerset to Switzerland and back again. And I don't think I did anything other than listen to music and stare out.

Lisa Sykes (22:13):

No, it's interesting, isn't it? I always bring loads of things to do on the train, work, books, et cetera. But I do spend a fair bit of time, especially if it's a journey that I don't do regularly and it's new scenery. And you kind of find yourself wondering about the backstories, don't you? About the houses you pass or the things you see. Yeah, no, the trick of course is being idle when you are somewhere that's really familiar like home or in your garden. It's not that easy to be ID in your garden, is it? Because you just see all the jobs that need doing. You can see everything that needs doing, can't you? We read a book and I know you and I have both been quite influenced by this book, haven't we? And we did an extract from it in the magazine and it's from Andrew Timothy O'Brien who wrote this brilliant book called To Stand and Stare and it's How to Garden while doing Next to Nothing. In fact, I bought it for someone recently and the book seller said to me, that sounds like a great book because what's not to like about that? Yeah,

Jo Tinsley (23:05):

Gives

Lisa Sykes (23:05):

You

Jo Tinsley (23:05):

Permission, doesn't

Lisa Sykes (23:06):

It? Absolutely.

Jo Tinsley (23:07):

Yeah. And I think it's particularly relevant and especially the feature, the extract that we had in the magazine, it's particularly relevant at this time of year. So he was writing about how high summer is the time to slow your pace, surrender to the moment and just any kind of busyness at this time of year is left to the bees and to the plants.

Lisa Sykes (23:25):

I love that. I love that. And we have to think a plant because saying this still an energy in the gardening in early August, which is about now when we're releasing this episode. But unlike us who we've slowed down considerably, so we need to appreciate this transformation that's happened since winter and don't think, oh, the bind weed's really bad. I need to pull it out. Maybe watch it how it spirals up as the fox gloves fades. And you came up with a really good tip actually for an untangling bind weed when you try and take it off a plant and you have to wind it round and you nearly always break the plant. And he said if you snap them close to the ground so the pressure releases, then you can untangle them without damaging it, which I thought was a really good idea. But he's not really about practical advice. He's more like gives you permission to slow down really and watch them doing it.

Jo Tinsley (24:22):

Yeah, it was more a kind of mindset, wasn't it?

Lisa Sykes (24:25):

And I adopted this because I don't mow my lawns in summer and no mow May has sort of run through all the way through to now really. And it is looking a bit sort of because the grass this year with all the rain we've had obviously has gone a bit mental. So I was thinking, oh, I really need to get this all moan. And then I just thought, do you know what? It's a really nice day, I'm just going to put my deck chair in amongst the long grass and sit in it. And it was like I wasn't in my garden. I felt like I was in a meadow. And also you get that insects eye view of stuff, don't you, when the grass is near your head. And it was just a really nice 20 minutes, just sat in the garden, just kind of, I suddenly stopped worrying about all the jobs and it was a real change of pace. I think your

Jo Tinsley (25:09):

Garden sounds like mine, Lisa with grass,

Lisa Sykes (25:13):

But yeah, no, his point is that the energy does not need to come from you. It's coming from the plant, observe it and watch the change. And actually that also applies to staying in your garden longer in the nighttime as well, doesn't

Jo Tinsley (25:26):

It? Yeah, yeah. There was another feature wasn't there about the night garden, which is not necessarily the middle of the night, but this kind of twilight, this dawn and dus and these extended twilight that we get in summer because the twilight

Lisa Sykes (25:39):

And it is like a parallel universe, isn't it? I mean it really is. It's so different. The same space is entirely different once twilight passes.

Jo Tinsley (25:48):

And you might think that you might sort of see it. Our time is being split into day and night, but it's not like that for all the animals and plants. It's not like that for nature. We have this sort of peak.

Lisa Sykes (25:59):

Oh no, it's not a definite break. You mean

Jo Tinsley (26:02):

We have these kind of peaks of activity at dawn and dusk, but you can split it up in different ways. So there's animals, it's a lovely word, such as excellent word. And they're the animals that are active at twilight. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So these are foxes, squirrels, mice, and there's so many different sort of night environments in between as well. So then you've got your nocturnal wildlife, like your moths, owls, bats, which are guided by moonlight, but then you have matinal creatures, which means mourning. So these are like the bees,

Lisa Sykes (26:36):

I dunno that one.

Jo Tinsley (26:36):

Okay. Matinal is another really lovely word, isn't it? So you get animals which come up just before sunrise as well. And you can often hear them with the birds.

Lisa Sykes (26:45):

And there's quite a few birds, isn't there as well? Yeah, because they actually start singing before dawn really, don't they?

Jo Tinsley (26:51):

Yeah, around four 20 at the moment. I keep being woken up by them. But yeah, when you start to notice the different times of the night, then you can kind of be more mindful to what you can see.

Lisa Sykes (27:04):

It definitely pays to linger because actually it's not just about seeing, is it because you are less reliant on site, so your other sensors are heightened

Jo Tinsley (27:13):

And flowers release like intoxicating fragrances at night and the soil smells different.

Lisa Sykes (27:18):

Oh yeah. I can almost smell it as you're talking.

Jo Tinsley (27:20):

Yeah. And you can hear the rustling foliage. A lot of creatures are sort of coming out and about and under the cover of darkness, flowers open and they close to attract pollinators. There's different plants which are trying to attract animals at different times of the day. Well, so there's just this hive of activity and you might get little froglets or tots coming out at night, mice bowls, hedgehogs, if you're lucky.

Lisa Sykes (27:44):

I should just give our magazine a little plug there actually, because we've got a feature that's covering exactly this in our September issue, which is going to be about your garden at dawn, noon and dusk and the different things you can do in it and just how it changes through the day. I think most of us, we don't really spend much time in our garden at night. We, and I think it's that it's kind of just a sensory

Jo Tinsley (28:10):

Experience.

Lisa Sykes (28:12):

And like you said, you don't have to stay up till midnight or set your alarm. You can just stay out there longer than you would normally.

Jo Tinsley (28:20):

Exactly, yeah. Just into when the sun's going down and you could lay down a blanket and just look up this before the stars come out. You look for the moths, look for the bats, look for the

Lisa Sykes (28:31):

Creatures

Jo Tinsley (28:31):

That are coming out at that time of day.

Lisa Sykes (28:33):

I've done that in my garden actually. We got all the kids once and we had all our sleeping bags out in the lawn and laid up. And it was the one night in about the whole month that we didn't see any pads. So they were Did you sleep outside? Oh no, we stayed out till quite late, about two in the morning. And then everyone was like, oh, can we go in? No, but actually we see bats a lot in our garden, a sort of empty building at the end of our garden that they roost in. So they appear quite often, but that night there weren't any. So the kids then said, I don't believe you. There's no bats. But actually I think there's something about just laying there and listening, isn't there? That's just kind of relaxing.

Jo Tinsley (29:17):

Yeah, and there are jobs to do if you do feel like you might be one of these people that really enjoys Potter. But if you found your relaxation through pottering pottering about doing tasks, which I like doing that. I say I find it hard to do nothing but pottering at this time of night.

Lisa Sykes (29:35):

What would you do at night then?

Jo Tinsley (29:36):

Yeah, so I mean, transplanting plants in the late evening helps them cope better with the stress of being moved. They don't have the scorching site.

Lisa Sykes (29:43):

Oh yeah, that makes sense. And a watering in the evening is good as well, isn't it? Yeah, yeah.

Jo Tinsley (29:48):

Watering. Exactly. Yeah, because not going to be evaporating as much.

Lisa Sykes (29:52):

And also you tell me about how it can actually help you sleep because all these plants like lavender and jasmine, their sense. So actually that's the kind of thing you use as a sleep aid, don't you?

Jo Tinsley (30:06):

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So rather than watching some tell, it might be nice to just have a potter around the garden and then benefit from that. I

Lisa Sykes (30:12):

Like that idea very much. And I think one of the things about summer is that our time does change. It's flexi time. It's stretchy time, isn't it? And our routines disappear. Our mealtimes move. The usual rules don't apply. I love a second breakfast in summer like you do on holiday. I feel like I do that all year round, right? In summer. And also you linger at the table more and you eat because you eat outside and maybe you're not up and at it the moment you finish your dinner. And I think the cost time is less prescribed, your curiosity is fed. You want to find out random things, read random books. You don't necessarily, you just kind of go, oh, what's that? And then look it up or find out about it. And I think there's definitely more time, whether it's true or not literally, but it feels like we have more time to just have a nosy, a mental potter if you like.

Jo Tinsley (31:08):

Yeah, that's true. True. What sort of things do you like looking up when you've got that time?

Lisa Sykes (31:12):

Well, I kind of like random facts, a bit of trivia because we have a series in the magnet with the collective nouns that we do an illustration for. And they're great. And I know you've got some, because I know you like collective noun. Joe is promising me a collective nouns quiz. And I will just say she has not told me what she's going to ask me now. So let's see how I get on with this.

Jo Tinsley (31:38):

So I mean, first just to introduce collective nouns, most of us know lots of collective nouns. So you've got your herd of cows, flock of birds, pride of lions, pot of dolphins. These are just everyday kind of speak, but you might also know some of the more obscure ones. So you've got murder of crows, murmuration of starlings, a candle of kittens, a charm of finches, a scheme of geese. They come up quite a lot. So I

Lisa Sykes (32:01):

Think yes, some I've heard of, some I haven't. I'm now filling myself with trepidation here. Those are the easy ones. Okay, come on. That hit

Jo Tinsley (32:08):

Me. Got five for you here. So does a rumpus refer to baboons badges or barnacles?

Lisa Sykes (32:15):

Oh, it's got to be baboons, isn't it? They're boisterous.

Jo Tinsley (32:20):

It is. It is a rumpus of baboons.

Lisa Sykes (32:22):

Oh, that's good. Yeah. Are they all going to be like that? Are they all going to be like on the matter peak Almost they're,

Jo Tinsley (32:28):

When you think about them, they do. Well, most of them makes sense. Let's see if this next one makes sense. So this next one is an unkindness. So is it an unkindness of rhinos of mice or of ravens?

Lisa Sykes (32:43):

Well, I mean, I don't know. Rhinos mice, not mice. Mice aren't unkind are they? You see Ravens kind of feel like they might be, there's something a bit sinister about ravens, isn't they? I don't know. It is either rhinos or ravens, but I'm not sure. Gone. It

Jo Tinsley (33:00):

Is in fact, Ravens, you're right.

Lisa Sykes (33:02):

Is it? There's something a little bit dark about ravens, isn't there?

Jo Tinsley (33:06):

Yeah, a lot of these come back to old folk stories. So this is a folk story where ravens push their young out of their nests and then refuse to care for their elders. So yeah, it comes back to sort of old tales about the animals. So three more. So the next one is a rump. Interesting. So is it a rump of otters, of penguins or of rabbits?

Lisa Sykes (33:29):

I was thinking you were going to say rump of beef. Yeah, not a rump. I don't know. Beavers. I'm just guessing beavers wasn't even on the list. Oh, sorry, what did you say it again? Say

Jo Tinsley (33:43):

Again? Ott, a rump of otters. Penguins or rabbits?

Lisa Sykes (33:47):

Otters. Otters. You're right, you got me these right now. I dunno where I went to beavers. I told you we haven't rehearsed this. Yeah, go on. So do we know why it's beavers or does it just sound right?

Jo Tinsley (33:59):

I think it's otters because

Lisa Sykes (34:01):

It's not beavers otters.

Jo Tinsley (34:05):

I think it's just the way they move. I mean it describes how they sort of move in a big kind of like they're very playful, aren't they?

Lisa Sykes (34:11):

You see? I thought you said romp rather than romp. So that's what threw me. But anyway, we'll gloss over that one. Can I just say though, the reason I'm thinking about beavers is because I read recently that there are more reintroduction programmes happening, which is very exciting because soon we'll be able to see beavers in more places in Britain. So that's why it was preoccupied me. Anyway, let's do the next one.

Jo Tinsley (34:33):

Okay, so a pandemonium of pandas, parrots or squirrels.

Lisa Sykes (34:40):

I actually think I know this one. Is it parrots? Is it parrot? It rings a bell. We had an illustration of a load of parrots, like in a slightly pandemonium way. You can sort of imagine that, can't you? So you've got all of these, right? Well, apart from my thought we'd said beavers, apart from the

Jo Tinsley (34:56):

Beavers,

Lisa Sykes (34:58):

A rump of beavers.

Jo Tinsley (35:01):

And then the final one is a wisdom. So is it a wisdom of woodpeckers, worms or wombats woodpeckers, worms

Lisa Sykes (35:09):

Or wombats? Are any of those creatures wise? So woodpeckers? No, not really. Are they worms? I dunno. Wombats. I like wombats. So I'm going to say wombats. I've got no idea it wombats. You've got them all right. It's no way. So

Jo Tinsley (35:27):

Do we know why are they wise? Swo, perhaps. I mean, I've got a compendium of collective nouns, which is the book that I got them from. But yeah, it was suggesting it might be the shape of their bums because they're quite rounded in the back and they don't have very much of a tail. And so when they disappear into their burrows, any animal that's chasing them doesn't have anything to catch onto. Oh, interesting. But I mean that was just speculation in the book. There's no sort of folk story. The

Lisa Sykes (35:56):

Thing is though, most of these collective nouns, they do sound right, don't they? When you say them, I like this anyway, then we could go on for hours, but probably it wouldn't be that interesting for anyone else. But as always, I've learned a lot talking to you, Joe. Thank you so much for all your facts and information. But before we go, we need to do what we do in every episode now, which is, and actually we should encourage listeners to do this too. If you've been inspired by what we've been talking about, we're going to set some intentions. So I'm going to some things that I'm going to do more of or indeed less of this summer. So I'm going to linger longer in my garden in the evenings and I'm going to watch the dark come and just potter about. And I might also collect some things that remind me of summer so I can look back on them and think, oh, that's when I did that, because I think I don't really do that enough and you sort of do forget. So how about you, Joe?

Jo Tinsley (36:51):

Yeah, well, I mean, I dunno if I can do any less gardening that I'm doing at the moment because my garden is a real jungle. But I did really love rereading Andrew Timothy O'Brien's feature on slowing your pace and surrendering to the moment. So I think just kind of holding onto that perspective when I'm out in the garden and just kind of letting go of the guilt that I'm feeling at the moment for my garden. It sounds

Lisa Sykes (37:13):

Good.

Jo Tinsley (37:13):

Yeah.

Lisa Sykes (37:14):

So thank you everyone for joining us for a Potter in this episode of Small Ways to Live Well. If you've been inspired to set your own intentions, you might want to think about a subscription, an immediate start subscription. If you choose that one, you'll get this issue straight away. And don't forget to follow us on your podcast app so you can listen to the next episode. Thanks to Joe for her facts and knowledge as ever. Bye Joe. See you next with time. I'll see you next time. And Joe and I will be back next week with episode four where we're looking at Summer Dreams, deck Chair plans, daydream, contemplation, and Why Summer is still a good time to do all of those things. Bye for now.