Return of the Light Episode 4 - AWAKE

Shrug off winter and wake up to spring – you’ll feel your energy levels rise while you listen to this episode. The Simple Things’ Editor Lisa Sykes and author of The Slow Traveller, Jo Tinsley will be talking rhubarb (literally) drinking some good coffee, making pancakes and discovering foraging for indoor people. 

Editing and music by Arthur Cosslett. 

Season 5: Return of the light is supported by Blackdown Shepherd Huts

If you are in the UK, you can choose an immediate start subscription to the The Simple Things and receive the current issue straight away. Or buy current and back issues here. 

On the blog:

Rhubarb & Marzipan Cake 

Rhubarb Mimosas

Rhubarb and ginger pavlova

Rhubarb and custard crepes

Birch sap wine 

From The Simple Things:

In the March MEND issue

• Turning saps, buds and shoots into nourishing and reviving dishes and drinks 
• Roasted Rhubarb and Cream Cake
• Chai Pancakes 
• Laundry symbols identifier

Manifesting, Coffee history – issue 128

Forced rhubarb recipes – issue 141

TO GO & DO:

Olney Pancake Race, 4 March 2025, 

Skipping Day, Scarborough, 4 March 2025

Blackdown Shepherd Hut breaks                          

TO FOLLOW:

Rachel de Thample

Jeska Herne, Lobster & Swan

Transcript

Lisa Sykes (00:14):

Hi, I am Lisa, editor of The Simple Things, a monthly magazine all about taking time to live well, and this means slowing down a little bit, remembering what's really important and making the most of where you live. And you've arrived here at episode four of this season of our podcast, which we're calling Return of the Light if you've been listening already. And if you haven't, you can download any of our previous episodes. We've taken one small step out of winter and today we're going to wake ourselves up ready for spring. I've got Jo Tinsley here with me. She's author of The Slow Traveller and one of our regular contributors on the Simple Things, and she's going to help me to, well wake up. Are you feeling awake, Jo?

Jo Tinsley (00:52):

Well, ironically, I had a terrible night's sleep. Oh no. Last night. So I'm looking forward to finding some ways that nature's going to wake us up a little bit.

Lisa Sykes (01:00):

I think nature can help and it does help, doesn't it? And the 1st of March, which has just passed is technically spring. It's meteorological spring. So the calendar and the season, they're all a bit irrelevant this time of year because it literally is open the curtains, see what the weather's are doing. And do you feel wintry or do you feel full of the joys of spring?

Jo Tinsley (01:22):

I feel like it's a really optimistic sort of time of year though, because it's getting, even though it's bitterly cold outside, the days are getting longer. It does feel brighter, and it does make you think ahead to spring.

Lisa Sykes (01:32):

It does. There's definitely a feeling of promise about it isn't there? And the fact that we've got months of the days getting lighter and longer is what's exciting and nature's starting to wake up and we're going to talk a little bit about that today, although it's very interesting because I think your nature where you are, Jo in the Southwest is definitely waking up a bit earlier than me in the Southeast, so that's quite interesting.

Jo Tinsley (01:54):

Yeah, there's a lot going on around here. Yeah. Yeah.

Lisa Sykes (01:57):

But before we get into this, I'm really pleased to be able to thank Blackdown Shepherd Huts who are longtime supporter of The Simple Things for supporting this season. We have fallen in love with their beautifully crafted cabins, which are designed and made in Somerset, and people use them for everything from a home office to a garden retreat or a spare room for visitors. Personally, I'm not sure I could bear to have other people stay there. I'd want it just for me, like a proper room with a view. But you can check these out for yourself on their website, which is all in our show notes. I bet you'd love a garden retreat, Jo, wouldn't you?

Jo Tinsley (02:28):

Oh, I totally would. I had one once a little shed office with a wood burner.

Lisa Sykes (02:32):

Oh, nice.

Jo Tinsley (02:33):

And it's still the dream. It just makes you feel like you're outdoors all the time. And it's just really lovely when you notice more when your daily commute is walking to the bottom of the garden.

Lisa Sykes (02:42):

Nice.

Jo Tinsley (02:43):

Yeah, it's nice when to start the day.

Lisa Sykes (02:45):

So I'm picturing you in your garden and how's it looking? Is it feeling springlike there at the moment?

Jo Tinsley (02:51):

No. Yeah, we've got a forest garden on the edge of the mendix, so Oh,

Lisa Sykes (02:56):

That sounds

Jo Tinsley (02:57):

Nice. There's a lot coming through. We've got prim roses at the moment, which is a really sort joyful site at this time of year. And do you know, they're actually like an ancient woodland indicator plant, so if you see them on your walk, you're in somewhere really sort of old and special. So they must be sort coming in from some sort of local old woods near here.

Lisa Sykes (03:15):

So if you've got them in your garden, there might have been an old hedgerow there at some point or something like that. I guess where we all lived was probably once fields or woodland it that's been cleared in the past to build a house on it.

Jo Tinsley (03:29):

Yeah. What have you got in your garden then?

Lisa Sykes (03:31):

Well, I think I'm definitely behind you. I have prim roses, but they're not there yet. I went out before we recorded this to just have a little look and see what colour I could find and what cheered me at most was my rhubarb patch.

Jo Tinsley (03:43):

Oh yeah. I love rhubarb

Lisa Sykes (03:45):

And it's so easy to grow rhubarb. You just literally let it do its thing.

Jo Tinsley (03:50):

The hard

Lisa Sykes (03:51):

Thing

Jo Tinsley (03:51):

Is taking it out.

Lisa Sykes (03:52):

I know you can give it away. You just chop a chunk off with some roots on in winter, and then you pop it in a pot and you go, Ooh, have a plant. I think the thing to remember is if you have got a cutting like that, you don't harvest it for its first year. You let it get stuck in and then you can get some stems. But what I love at this time of year is you get those little pink frilly edges of the leaves all unfurling, don't you? It's

Jo Tinsley (04:15):

Lovely. It's lovely. Yeah. And our grows enormous. You get these enormous leaves on them. Rhubarb leaves are massive, aren't they? Yeah. Did you know they're actually poisonous? They're toxic to humans and animals.

Lisa Sykes (04:25):

Are you sure about this? Because I'm going to tell you about my hens and I don't actually ever have any hens anymore, but when I did, and I knew rhubarb leaves were poisonous, but my hens, they knew there was something in them that they needed because every so often they'd nibble them and I'd be running up going, go away. Go away. Don't nibble the rhubarb. But they used to do it to forsythe flowers as well, which are also coming this time of year, and this must be some trace element or something. And although you think of hens being bird brains, they really can. So I feel like someone must have done a PhD into this and poisonous plants that hens used to self-medicate or something. If anyone's

Jo Tinsley (05:03):

Listening,

Lisa Sykes (05:04):

He's got that. There's an idea right there. But yeah, tell me about rhubarb leaves. I think you've been looking at what you can use them for. I mean,

Jo Tinsley (05:12):

Yeah. Yeah. So obviously you can pop them on the compost pile, that's not a problem. But you can also make organic pesticide from them because they're really good at eradicating bugs because they're toxic. Oh, nice. But you can also use them to clean your sauce pans, and you've got that kind of grime that you'd have to get a wire sort of brush to. You can actually just boil up rhubarb leaves for about half an hour and it leaves them looking shiny and stain free. You've just got to make sure you wash your pots and pans afterwards so that you don't have a layer of toxicity on top.

Lisa Sykes (05:40):

Of course. Yeah. Otherwise it is slightly toxic here.

Jo Tinsley (05:42):

Yeah.

Lisa Sykes (05:43):

Mind you, probably not as toxic as some of the chemicals you actually do use to clean your bands.

Jo Tinsley (05:47):

Yeah, true. That's true.

Lisa Sykes (05:48):

Yeah. But let's not experiment with that. Not to try at home. That sounds great. Once I've got fully grown rhubarb, I'm going to try that. You always feel a bit wasteful throwing something that luscious and big looking just on the compost team. You can compost it, can't you?

Jo Tinsley (06:03):

Yeah, exactly.

Lisa Sykes (06:04):

Even though it's toxic, it decomposes and Yeah, yeah,

Jo Tinsley (06:07):

Yeah. And I imagine most people, I found all this out because I had these big leaves and you're like, oh, I'll just Google it to see if we can add this to a salad. It's like you always trained to think how much you can use of things.

Lisa Sykes (06:18):

Yeah.

Jo Tinsley (06:19):

So yeah, it's good that there are uses for it,

Lisa Sykes (06:21):

But going back to this time of year, it's all about forestry, Barb, isn't it? Which you have to grow in complete darkness and you can do it in your garden. You can put a plant put over it, can't you? And let it grow in darkness.

Jo Tinsley (06:32):

It's better somewhere warm though, isn't it?

Lisa Sykes (06:34):

Because I'm from West Yorkshire and really near where I grew up, I am from Huddersfield, but in the Wakefield area is the rhubarb triangle.

Jo Tinsley (06:44):

Okay, I've heard of that, but I don't actually know more about it.

Lisa Sykes (06:47):

Yeah, it's quite funny. There's a triangle. It used to be a much bigger triangle apparently, and used to cover Leeds and Bradford as well, because rhubarb is native to Siberia apparently. So that's why it thrives in Yorkshire cold wear winters. And apparently this rhubarb triangle once produced like 90% of the world's forced rhubarb, and they literally have these. So it was all in forcing sheds,

Jo Tinsley (07:10):

Was it?

Lisa Sykes (07:11):

Yeah. So they put these forcing sheds in the fields, and what they would do is use the horse manure and night soil, let's not talk about that, but also woollen waste from the mills that were all nearby. So everything they had and basically, so it keep the nice warm, but traditionally I really like this, they would have to pick the rhubarb by candlelight because exposure to light would stop the rest of it growing. So you just imagine all these pickers in there with candles. I wonder if they still do that. Yeah, I dunno. By the end of March it's all over, you see? Because what happens is they grow out in the fields, and then about November time they move them into the sheds and the carbohydrates that they've got in their roots. Then store them through the winter to grow in this heat and warmth, but no light. But by March they've run out of juice, basically.

Jo Tinsley (07:59):

And it's a totally different thing, isn't it? Forced rhubarb? It's yes, totally. Yeah. You've got to look at it in a different way. I think we had a feature in the magazine with Lottie story talking about it. We did, saying it's a whole different species and it opens up all of these different recipes.

Lisa Sykes (08:14):

Yeah, I mean you can do pickled rhubarb nice.

Jo Tinsley (08:17):

Exactly. Or in really bright salads, which you'd be really lovely at this time of year. And everything's a little bit lump. So winter salads with rhubarb and beetroot and goats cheese. Imagine how vibrant that would look.

Lisa Sykes (08:29):

Oh, amazing. I mean it's the whole colour on your plate thing, isn't it? That cheers you up eating colourful foods at this time of year. But we have definitely, we go rhubarb tastic in the magazine realm this time of year because there's so few other colourful things around that are grown in the uk. I think maybe that's why rhubarb kind of declined a bit, because obviously you could get other exotic fruit and veg after the war and stuff. But anyway, we've got loads of recipes on our blog. I think you found 12 the other day, didn't you? I did. Just on the website, so we've got rhubarb and marzi, pan cake, rhubarb and ginger pavlova tables and obviously crumble. Plenty of crumble. We've talked about crumble a lot because we're not going to dwell on crumble. We both crumble. One thing I really like is mackerel with rhubarb, a little compote.

Jo Tinsley (09:16):

Oh, nice. Haven't tried

Lisa Sykes (09:17):

That. It's very good because gooseberries do it as well. I think it's the tartness of it. But in our new March issue, the men issue, which has just gone on sale, we've got a rhubarb and cream cake and also a rhubarb tipple as well. So like we say, we love rhubarb. That sounds good. And we'll put some of these in the show notes as well so you can find them. Yeah, definitely. But even in early spring, there's a few things you can forage as well, isn't there?

(09:42):

And we've got another feature in our March issue actually full of good stuff, the March issue, our contributor Rachel to Temple, who does a lot of things with us, and she's really good at preserving and fermenting, but she also loves a bit of foraging. And we sent to go and find SAPs shoots and tips in this time of year in very early spring that you can make things from. And she came up with Cleavers water. Now, do you know what cleavers are, Joe? Maybe you call 'em goose grass, do you? Yeah, we call them sticky willies near us. Well, okay, well I know them as goose grass, but it's those weeds that look innocuous, but they stick to you and they stick to the dog, don't they? They stick to anything. It's their way of dispersing themselves, isn't it? Basically if you steep the tender tops that come up first in the spring, they're really good fuel emphatic system, particularly if your glands are swollen and you've got a sore throat.

Jo Tinsley (10:37):

We take so much out of the garden. That's really good to think there's something you can do with them.

Lisa Sykes (10:41):

I know, but I think you need to do it not in high summer when they've got a bit old. You need to do them in spring. And she also tries salty vinegar crisps made from nettles.

Jo Tinsley (10:51):

Yeah, I saw that. I thought that was really good because nettles are so good for you. They've got an unusually high protein content for vegetable, but they're also rich in vitamin A, C, D, iron, potassium, calcium. They've got so much in it, and especially at this time of year,

Lisa Sykes (11:06):

They're a lot easier to pick at this time of year when the tender tops are just coming out and their sting's not quite as potent.

Jo Tinsley (11:12):

And that's the part that you want. Yeah, yeah,

Lisa Sykes (11:14):

Exactly. But she also does a nettle falafel with a lemon balm yoghourt. Now lemon bal is like the bane of my garden because I have let it escape. And literally

Jo Tinsley (11:26):

It's like mint, isn't it? It just goes everywhere.

Lisa Sykes (11:29):

Yeah, I mean it is a perennial, so it's supposed to die back and come up, but it's here already. I mean, I could harvest it now. So anything that uses lemon balm is particularly fine by me. But she talks about wild salads, and I think this is really interesting. All this stuff isn't there about eating 30 plants a week. And we've talked about it before, and it's about eating more biodiverse plants there things that I didn't even know you could eat wood. So SOL's a lovely plant that you get in really shady bits of woods or the edge of hedges and it's got a pale lemony colour to the leaves, and then you get these little flowers later on that are also edible. But I like a bit of yarro. That's a very nice plant. It kind of a cross between.

Jo Tinsley (12:11):

These are all sort of things that you overlook, aren't they?

Lisa Sykes (12:13):

Yes.

Jo Tinsley (12:14):

Yeah. They're not the sort of obvious ones.

Lisa Sykes (12:16):

No, because I'm trying to get better at identifying wild plants because when they're grassy, they're complicated, they all look a bit the same, and you've got to get into it. Maybe just, I'm going to try and just identify a few, a key few and then I won't worry too much about it.

Jo Tinsley (12:33):

She also mentions three cornered leak, which I really like, like a milder sort of sweeter wild garlic.

Lisa Sykes (12:38):

Oh yeah.

Jo Tinsley (12:38):

It's not as easy to sort identify, but it's got these three edge shape through the leaves and white bell light flowers. But you can use it in the same way. You can blitz it for a lee and potato soup or you can make a pesto.

Lisa Sykes (12:51):

But is it slightly milder than garlic then?

Jo Tinsley (12:53):

Yeah.

Lisa Sykes (12:54):

Yeah. So it's not quite as punchy because wild garlic, you use it sparingly really, don't you? Because you always see those pictures of all the handfuls. Yeah,

Jo Tinsley (13:03):

And it's the one thing everyone can, because you can't get it wrong,

Lisa Sykes (13:06):

But it is really pungent. And what else? Isn't there something called hedge

Jo Tinsley (13:11):

Mustard? Yeah. Yeah, hedge mustard. And also known as Jack by the hedge. And that's another sort of bitter garlicy green with toothed triangular leaves. And that works really nicely in salads. So again, because it's not too, I mean it's punchier than the cornered leak because it's not too punchy. You can have it

Lisa Sykes (13:27):

Raw

Jo Tinsley (13:28):

In salads and stuff.

Lisa Sykes (13:30):

I love the idea of eating all these things that are just there for free because there's nothing more soul destroying than throwing away spent mixed salad that you've bought is there.

Jo Tinsley (13:40):

And it happens all the time.

Lisa Sykes (13:41):

I know. Because they come in such big packets

Jo Tinsley (13:44):

That

Lisa Sykes (13:45):

Unless you're eating it every day, which in winter you don't want a salad every day,

Jo Tinsley (13:49):

There's so much plastic as well.

Lisa Sykes (13:51):

I know I should be growing my own salads, but actually just not throwing it away because I could go and pick some down the road would be lovely.

Jo Tinsley (13:59):

And also, if you're not growing your own salad, it's not being eaten by slugs and things because when you grow it, they can get decimated, can't it? So these things are just growing in the hedgerows.

Lisa Sykes (14:08):

It can, yes, we like this. But the thing that I really was taken with, and this is more of a project, I mean it's kind of, this is next level. Some people might think it's a bit hair shit, but it is next level. But tree sap syrup, you need a reasonably sized birch tree to tap, which I have in my garden. Apparently you need one that's around 30 centimetres circumference. So it's a good size stem, but it's not centuries old or anything. And I don't think birch trees even growth for centuries. Anyway. I'm talking complete rubbish. But anyway, this time of year is when you want to do it because you drill a hole into the bark and you can see the sap come out of the tree, and then you get a bit of dowel. You've got to have your dowel before you drill your hole because you've got to be able to plug the sap, otherwise the tree will suffer. And we don't want any trees harmed in the making of this. But then you attach a tube to your hole basically, and if you leave it overnight, you're going to get a bottle of sap.

Speaker 3 (15:04):

Wow.

Lisa Sykes (15:05):

And so do you remember Birch water became a bit of a thing and it was like a bit trendy, but actually what Rachel tells us is you can also do sycamores, not just birch and sycamores are everywhere. I mean, you might get into trouble if you go and start drilling holes in your local park. So it's probably best to find one in somewhere. You're allowed to do this.

Jo Tinsley (15:25):

So this app, can you turn it into syrup

Lisa Sykes (15:28):

Like maple syrup? Yeah, if you reduce it, she says, and I haven't, I haven't tasted it, but she said it tastes like butterscotch sycamore tree sub syrup. And of course the most famous syrup is maple, isn't it? And what do we have that on? Pancakes? Yes. And you see, we had to get to pancakes sooner rather than later, didn't we yet?

Jo Tinsley (15:48):

Which it's in a couple of days time, isn't it? It's quite late this

Lisa Sykes (15:50):

Year. It's the 4th of March. We've had to wait for it. But strove Tuesdays happening. There's quite a lot of folklore attached to pancakes isn't there

Jo Tinsley (15:58):

Is. And there's a lot of events around the country as well. So there's the only pancake race. Oh yeah. I mean, pancake racers are held all over the uk. Where's Olney then? Darby? Is it Buckinghamshire? Oh, Buckingham, sure. Okay. Yeah. So the women only have been racing on TROs Tuesday every day, every day, every year since. Imagine if they did every day, every year since 1445. But even during the pandemic, it was run by one lone woman to make sure that the tradition wouldn't be broken, which is really nice. Oh, bless. So it's really old fashioned. So all the women have to be wearing aprons, headscarves skirts, and the church bell rings, and everyone has to sort of toss their pancake and run 380 metres from the marketplace to a door of the church.

Lisa Sykes (16:41):

And it's a proper race. There's a winner.

Jo Tinsley (16:43):

It's a proper race. Yeah. And it says it came back to a 15th century stressed housewife who was late to church on strove Tuesday and dashed out with a frying pan in a hand. And ever since then they've been racing.

Lisa Sykes (16:54):

We also read something, didn't we? About in Scarborough? They do strove tide skipping.

Jo Tinsley (16:58):

Yeah. And that sounds amazing. I'd never heard of that. But yeah, when the pancake bell is run, thousands of locals skip up to 10 people in a row. Oh, what

Lisa Sykes (17:07):

All over. So people are turning the

Jo Tinsley (17:09):

Rope

Lisa Sykes (17:11):

And they're running down the road skipping

Jo Tinsley (17:13):

Exactly over these long road stretch

Lisa Sykes (17:15):

Things. That sounds like carnage in the making, doesn't

Jo Tinsley (17:18):

They? Yeah. Yeah. I think it came down to people would be given off half a day for Lent and they'd play football on the beach. The children meanwhile would be skipping because I think a local fisherman gave them a rope and the children were skipping. So the first recorded skipping day was 1903. Wow. And then ever since then, I love it that these things have just continued and people find so important.

Lisa Sykes (17:38):

Yeah, totally.

Jo Tinsley (17:39):

Quite rightly so.

Lisa Sykes (17:40):

I can't say we do much skipping on pancake morning, but we do do pancakes and we do them at breakfast. Do you do them at breakfast?

Jo Tinsley (17:47):

No. I normally remember around four o'clock that it's pancake day and then we have the most pudding.

Lisa Sykes (17:51):

Oh yeah. But I mean, I dunno about you, but my topping's quite basic. I do like a lemon and sugar myself.

Jo Tinsley (17:58):

I grew up with lemon and sugar pancakes, and they're the best. I can't quite bear to tell my 4-year-old daughter that it's okay to just pour sugar on her food. So I haven't told her that. I haven't told her about Nutella either because or coco Pops. It's just, yeah, I mean it's too much.

Lisa Sykes (18:13):

Yeah, I avoided the Nutella pancakes, but then the girls probably went to sleepovers and suddenly we threw fall out. Nutella entered our house and it wasn't through me. I think my other half had something to do with that. But yeah, no, I might push the boat out this year though. I might have some for lunch and I'm thinking avocado and feta and lemon.

Jo Tinsley (18:35):

Nice.

Lisa Sykes (18:36):

We did some pancake recipes in the magazine a few years ago. I'll see if I can find some of those that are on the blog as well. I could fancy that.

Jo Tinsley (18:43):

Yeah. I really love a savoury GT style pancakes.

Lisa Sykes (18:46):

Oh yeah.

Jo Tinsley (18:46):

So it reminds me when we used to have these family road trips down to France and I'd find a way to have a three-course meal comprising entirely of crepes, so like two savoury and then to follow up with a sweet. So yeah, I grew up on the ham and cheese sort of pancakes and stuff, so I might try and make a whole meal out of them.

Lisa Sykes (19:03):

Well, we've got a chai pancakes recipe in the marchy she de, which could be interesting. And they do some good flavours, I think a bit cardamom cinnamon. You do know that pancakes are actually the same as Yorks pudding butter, don't you? Do you know what? I didn't know that because I've never actually made Yorkshire pudding. Sorry, the shock on my face. You've never made Yorkshire puddings. Right? Okay. No,

Jo Tinsley (19:25):

I mean I've eaten plenty of Yorkshire puddings. My dad used to make them, but I've never actually made one.

Lisa Sykes (19:29):

Well, I am just going to tell you a bit about Yorks puddings because I am not a confident cook, and I've talked about this before, but I literally learned to make Yorkshire puddings at my nana's knee. I mean, we'd stay over there on a Saturday night and she would start making Yorkshire pudding butter on a Sunday morning, and she showed me it's all in the wrist, the beating. You've got to put the air in. And I think that's the thing with the pancake mixture, you don't have to beat them as much, it doesn't have to rise. But with Yorks pudding, you've got to put the air in and you've got to use more than one egg as well. At least two eggs in New York to put in butter. But yeah, it's the same deal really. I mean, I just make the same mixture. I mean, I'm sure that's not technically accurate.

Jo Tinsley (20:06):

I'm going to have to try this.

Lisa Sykes (20:07):

Maybe I put slightly less salt in, but for a sweet pancake. But yeah, they do fine. I think I'm not great at tossing them.

Jo Tinsley (20:14):

No,

Lisa Sykes (20:15):

But my bats always good. I will say now I'm a pretty pro Yorks pudding maker.

Jo Tinsley (20:19):

Okay,

Lisa Sykes (20:20):

Joe, you've got do some I will. You can't not have Yorks puddings.

Jo Tinsley (20:24):

I'll make some and I'll send you a picture, Lisa.

Lisa Sykes (20:26):

Okay. Alright, that's good.

(20:41):

How to care for Houseplants. A short story by Libby page. Ellie saw the class advertised on her local cafe's notice board. It was the illustration that caught her eye, an abundance of watercolour snake plants and potted succulents, jostling for space amongst a few typed words. Do your house pants droop when you so much as look at them? Are you sick of killing your cacti? For years, E had tried to cheer her basement apartment with greenery, but nothing ever lasted beyond a few weeks. Her bedroom was a graveyard of houseplant. Sorry, I'm late. When she put the class in her diary, she'd been determined to be on time, but then her boss had emailed asking if she wouldn't mind being a lifesaver and doing some work over the weekend. Her neighbour Jew needed help with her food shopping, and her sister had called wanting to offload about an argument with her in-laws.

(21:35):

The time rushed on and Ellie realised she'd forgotten to have breakfast again and hadn't brushed her hair and had only five minutes to get to the village hall. The instructor, a young woman in a leather apron looked up as Ellie stepped nervously inside. Hi. There's a space on that table over there. Ellie mumbled. Another apology as she took an empty seat next to a man with dark brown hair and a friendly smile. She was relieved to notice that his hair looked just as unbred as hers. Hey, I'm Matty whispered, as the instructor turned back to a table of plants saying something about overwatering and humidity. So you are a plant killer too. Ellie laughed the very worst. She remembered the potted rose. Her mother bought her for a last birthday. Ellie had been determined to keep this one alive. But after several weeks of late nights at work, an impromptu babysitting of her nephews, she glanced one morning at the rose to notice the petals had dropped and the leaves were shrivelled throughout the class.

(22:34):

The instructor talk through the different type of house plants and the conditions they need in order to thrive. She told them that plants like people just need a bit of care and attention. She showed them peace lilies and orchids and pretty potted violence. And as the instructor taught, Ellie and Matt whispered back and forth like school children, they talked about their lives and their field attempts at indoor gardening. He made her laugh, and as she did, she realised that maybe she didn't laugh enough anymore. Not since her life became so busy, not since she stopped properly looking after herself. Do you want to go for a drink and maybe some food? He asked her at the end of the session as Ellie slipped her notebook into her bag and stood to leave. She looked at him carefully. His eyes were the colour of ferns. She thought of the email from her boss and the unfinished work that was still waiting for her at home.

(23:27):

She pictured her fridge empty. Apart from a leftover takeaway, she thought of the rose she neglected until it wilted and all the other plants she was supposed to love but forgot about along the way. And as she looked at Matt, another image slipped into her mind as quick as a blink, the fire glowing in the local pub, two glasses of wine and a hot meal shared with this kind stranger who somehow didn't feel like a stranger. A moment of pause, a little care and attention, she said, with a smile. I'd like that a lot. He grinned back at her and something inside Ellie unfolded and grew.

(24:17):

So I really love that story, and I know a lot of people who are those people who can't keep houseplant alive. And I'm not always great at it. But what do you do if you don't have a handy class with a handsome young fellow in it that you are going to learn how to keep your houseplant alive? I think you could try something more temporary. And what about something making an arrangement of something that only needs to last a few weeks. Loads of things you can forage and bring home, isn't there?

Jo Tinsley (24:43):

It's true. It's true. And it makes me think of that feature that we did with Jessica Hearn.

Lisa Sykes (24:47):

Oh yes.

Jo Tinsley (24:48):

Yeah. From the Future Kept to who? Blogs as Lobster Swan. I think that was last February.

Lisa Sykes (24:53):

Yeah.

Jo Tinsley (24:54):

So she makes these little botanical tableau on a set of driftwood shelves and they are beautiful. They They're so beautiful. Have a look on her Instagram again. We'll link it in the show notes. So she does some, maybe four times a year, maybe more if there's micro seasons.

Lisa Sykes (25:10):

Yeah, I think she changes them more often, doesn't she? Yeah.

Jo Tinsley (25:13):

Yeah. And so on these shelves, she'll put things that she's found from the gardens, but she'll also put little curios, she's picked up in junk shops and boot fairs and jars and bottles. It's all about what she puts things in and bits of artwork and

Lisa Sykes (25:25):

Postcards. It's not just natural things, is it?

Jo Tinsley (25:29):

And it can just be like a single stem or something like that. So in spring she'll put papery Heller balls and snow drops in some of the sweet peas and puffy Nigel seed heads and poppies. Or that'd be an autumn, wouldn't it? But

Lisa Sykes (25:42):

I mean literally these windows frame the seasons, don't they? And of course, most of us aren't going to have a perfect window with shelves across that gets the light and it catches all the things. But actually you could find a spot, I reckon, in most houses, maybe it's a mantle piece or a shelf or a table. You could do like a flat lay, couldn't you? A table, an H table or a windows sill. But you do want somewhere.

Jo Tinsley (26:07):

Yeah, that'd be really nice. Or a box frame or something. Yeah,

Lisa Sykes (26:09):

Yeah, exactly. Or even a tray. I think you do want something where the light catches it or a lamp illuminates it, I think. Because then if you've got glass, it twinkles a bit and then you get the light hitting flowers if you've got some flowers in it. I love this idea though,

Jo Tinsley (26:25):

And I think it's also about the process. So it keeps you foraging, it keeps you looking at every corner of your garden just to find the right shaped brand for a seed head that looks really nice. But it also like a visual diary of what's growing in your garden that year, which is going to change

Lisa Sykes (26:39):

Definitely, I think because you'll end up knowing the corner or shelf that you're displaying on, so well, you'll end up knowing what shapes and sizes of thing work on there, won't you? So you genuine just tunes you in, doesn't it? Yeah, exactly. I think this is foraging for indoor people, isn't it? If you don't feel yourself, you're not person in the woods with some ur, you could just basically go outside, gather a few bits, and then spend most of the time indoors warm and cosy, making it look nice. You sounds good. Sounds good

Jo Tinsley (27:12):

To me.

Lisa Sykes (27:12):

I know it's something for everyone. But we did go outside this morning. We decided to brave the bit of cold. And we've got a few bits. I mean, I think we're going to have quite interestingly different bits because as we've said, Joe is in the southwest, where as we know, spring comes early, you get those milder winters. And I'm in the southeast, which does get quite earlier springs than up north. But I still, I don't feel it's quite there yet for me. But what did you find?

Jo Tinsley (27:38):

Well, I brought in my all time favourite flower hellebores.

Lisa Sykes (27:42):

Oh, I'm just looking at, and it's like something from a flower show. They're gorgeous. They're so unbelievably beautifully exotic for this time of year, aren't they?

Jo Tinsley (27:53):

Yeah, yeah. Such colour in the garden. And so I love how papery they are, these beautiful blacky purple leaves,

Lisa Sykes (28:01):

But also such big flowers. Where do they find the energy to produce flowers like that at this time of year? I dunno. Because they're in the shade. Even in winter, it's like, yeah, I dunno. Yeah, they are just a sort of feet of nature. I think hella bores aren't they

Jo Tinsley (28:17):

Did. They're also called Lenin roses.

Lisa Sykes (28:19):

It's

Jo Tinsley (28:20):

One of their names, I guess. Well, that's

Lisa Sykes (28:21):

Appropriate, isn't

Jo Tinsley (28:22):

It? Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, because we're going to be talking about Lenin a minute, but I guess it's because they flower from late winter into spring, but they're not actually related to roses. They belong to the Buttercup family.

Lisa Sykes (28:32):

Well, sadly, the only thing that was in my garden, oh no,

(28:36):

Joe can see. I have a single stem of a single mascar, which was the only thing I could really find flowering in my garden. I mean, it's lovely. I mean, I have got some bulbs, to be fair. I have got some crocus that are about to come out, but you'd have to be very hardhearted to chop a crocus off before it flows. And there are some snow drops as well. But this was it. So what I resorted to do was admiring evergreens because they do get a headstart and this is a, which is the evergreen one. And you can see the size of the buds joke, can't you? They're like, I don't know what they're the size of. You wouldn't expect to get that this time

Jo Tinsley (29:12):

Of year.

Lisa Sykes (29:12):

They're bigger than peas. Like a hazelnut. Yes, like a hazelnut. Exactly. And these things grow mad. They grow over everything. And because they're evergreen, they're all ready to go at this time of year. So that was quite exciting. And then obviously Ivy and things like that. But then all mine was sort of dried seed heads very beautiful. I don't clear them out. It's still really nice though. But it didn't quite have that new shoots. Give me a couple of weeks though. We are recording this about a week or two before we actually put it out. We, and I reckon by the time this episode comes out, my hellebores will be looking as lovely as yours, but interesting, isn't it? That it depends where you live as to when spring really arrives with you.

Jo Tinsley (29:52):

Yeah, exactly. Because in the north of England, it'll be another sort of few weeks, won't it?

Lisa Sykes (29:56):

Yes. I'm definitely going to resort to the jam jar garden that we had in our February issue, which is literally you put some gravel in a jam jar and you get higher synth bulb and prop it in the top and watch it grow and force it to flower inside. And I think they're going to be my colour for a few weeks at least.

Jo Tinsley (30:14):

Yeah, I mean, I think a lot of this is also about what you use the bell jars or the digital bottles and things like that as much as about the actual plant.

Lisa Sykes (30:22):

Exactly. I think that's the thing. And I do like a bell jar because it stops things getting dusty. And dusty is a bit of probably in my house, I'm not very good at actual dusting, but you can root through your drawers as well for your messy drawer, the messy drawer in the kitchen that everybody has for ephemera and memorabilia. In fact, we've got a new back cover series that we're doing that we shot by our pitch Ready Liz and our art Artist and Lease. And they basically raided their houses for colour themed memorabilia and done these beautiful little tableaus.

Jo Tinsley (30:53):

They're really nice.

Lisa Sykes (30:54):

And the first one's on the back of our March issue, so you'll be able to see it on there. And it's daffodil yellow is the colour for that one, which is guaranteed to cheer you up. But it's not just nature waking up at this time of year, Joe. Is it? Our own energy levels get higher as well, don't they?

Jo Tinsley (31:07):

Yeah, it's true. And I think it's actually quite a nice time of year to sort of check in with our minds and bodies.

Lisa Sykes (31:12):

I agree. And we think more about our wellbeing. And it's something our supporters this season, Blackdown Shepherd Huts have noticed too. And they're saying that more of the people who buy their huts are using them for wellbeing as some have turned them into a treatment room or a yoga space. But their newest hut is a garden sauna and cold plunge pool, which I think is right of your street, Joe.

Jo Tinsley (31:33):

Yeah, definitely. And we are going to be visiting that soon.

Lisa Sykes (31:37):

You are going to get the chance for our Easter special when we're making the podcast inside one of their hooks. And we voted that you are going to be the person to try the plunge. Thank you.

Jo Tinsley (31:49):

I'm looking forward to that.

Lisa Sykes (31:50):

I know we'll interview you quickly so your teeth aren't chattering too much while you're talking. You can find out more and see a gallery of gorgeous huts@blackdownshepherdhuts.co at uk. And you can also try one before you buy, I dunno if you know this Joe, but this might appeal. They've got a sister site called Shepherd Hut breaks.co at UK and it's glamping locations all around the country that are black down shepherd hoods.

Jo Tinsley (32:10):

Oh, that's

Lisa Sykes (32:10):

Nice. So you can go and stay in one.

Jo Tinsley (32:12):

Yeah. Nice. I'll look that up.

Lisa Sykes (32:13):

What do you do then to try and shake things up and wake you up in early spring?

Jo Tinsley (32:18):

Well, this sort of time of year always makes me think about Lent, and I think that's because, not that I'm particularly religious, but Lent was always a frame of reference when we were growing up in our schools, people were talking about,

Lisa Sykes (32:30):

Yeah, someone always gave something up for Lent, right? Yeah. Whatcha

Jo Tinsley (32:33):

Going to give up? And so it's kind of stuck. I feel like now is an almost better time to evaluate, reflect than the 1st of January.

Lisa Sykes (32:43):

Yeah. When you're

Jo Tinsley (32:45):

Sort of deep in the middle of winter and you're a bit overwhelmed by everything that's happening,

Lisa Sykes (32:48):

Both physically and mentally, you are better equipped to do it now, aren't you?

Jo Tinsley (32:53):

Yeah. And I feel like, so it is just a good time to set intentions. It is not a busy time, but it's about to become a busy time because Spring's coming. And we did a feature a little while ago, which was all about manifesting. So the power of manifesting good things to happen and the power of positive thinking. And although I don't wholeheartedly buy into that concept because I don't think everything within our lives is within our control. And I think you've got to have space for being compassionate towards the weightier sort of emotions and stuff. But I do think that there was good things in this feature.

Lisa Sykes (33:24):

I know. I think you can focus on the parts of the life that you can control. And a positive mindset's always a good thing, isn't it?

Jo Tinsley (33:33):

Yeah. Yeah. There was quite a few things I took out of that feature. Just identifying your intention, just having that moment to sort of think about what it is that you want to achieve that year and why it's important to you. And then going through this kind of manifestation process, you might make a vision board

(33:52):

Which you can either do as a physical sense on a piece of paper, almost like a scrapbook or a journal or a Pinterest board or what you save on Instagram. All of these things help you identify what's important to you. And then you have a moment to reflect on why and then how to get there.

Lisa Sykes (34:08):

And I think for me, I love that idea. I think I always wanted people to, when you think about what people might say to you when you're not there, and I always wanted someone to say she made it happen. Do you know what I mean? For me, that's a really important thing to do in your life. And I think you have to believe in that before that process can start, isn't it? So it's as much about belief as anything else. But the thing that really resonated with me in this piece is the advice about talking to yourself. You would your best friend.

Jo Tinsley (34:38):

Yeah,

Lisa Sykes (34:38):

That's good. Who does that? We all dispense positive wisdom to our friends really, and never to ourselves yet.

Jo Tinsley (34:46):

We don't talk to ourselves like that. I definitely don't.

Lisa Sykes (34:49):

And tell yourself it's going to be a great day. That's kind of easy, isn't it?

Jo Tinsley (34:53):

I think that's the thing about a lot of the features in the magazine is even if you don't feel like it's going to sort of resonate with you, there's always going to be something that you can take away from it.

Lisa Sykes (35:02):

Yes.

Jo Tinsley (35:04):

And there always is something that I take away from it, but from all these different sort of ways of thinking about your wellbeing. So yeah, that's a really good one.

Lisa Sykes (35:13):

Yeah, because the point is that no one's ever going to take exactly the same thing away from an article they've read or advice they've been given, are they? Because if we were all the same, we'd be clones, wouldn't we? So that's the point. You've got to find the advice that speaks to you, I think. And that one's a good one, and I'm going to try and do that more often. But you've got to be awake to do this stuff though, haven't you? And we both armed ourselves with a coffee before this because good coffee certainly helps with the awakeness thing, doesn't it?

Jo Tinsley (35:44):

Yeah, exactly. There was a feature a little while ago, which was like a world tour of different coffees. Oh yeah. Around the world. Coffee has been adapted to local palettes and ingredients, and it really made me think of when you're travelling, you have these different ways of having coffees and teas and how nice that is to bring that home. So in my twenties, I travelled a lot around Southeast Asia and I went to Vietnam where they had Vietnamese

Lisa Sykes (36:08):

Coffee. Oh yes, me too.

Jo Tinsley (36:11):

Yeah. Have you had it before? It's like, it's a really, really tasty coffee with a layer of condensed milk at the bottom in a thick, sort of a clear glass, and it looks like an upside down Guinness. And then you stir it in. It's so sweet and viscous, it's like, but

Lisa Sykes (36:25):

Have you ever tried it back at home because it tastes disgusting?

Jo Tinsley (36:30):

I didn't think so when,

Lisa Sykes (36:31):

It's one of those things that didn't travel back home with me. I know.

Jo Tinsley (36:34):

Oh no. In my twenties, I just was always making these coffees with condensed milk.

Lisa Sykes (36:38):

Oh, were you? Oh, bless.

Jo Tinsley (36:40):

Yeah, I haven't done that for a while.

Lisa Sykes (36:41):

No, I think it's interesting. And we did another feature, I think in the same issue because we do this regular history, we've forgotten wisdom, history. Looking back, we covered loads of different subjects, but we looked at coffee. And what I didn't realise is that magazines were actually really central in early coffee houses, really. Because in the 17th century, the coffee houses when they first came more widespread across Europe, were basically warm places to debate how the country should move forward in the wake of the Civil War. And coffee was the ideal medium. It kept people awake as opposed to alcohol, which made them sleep. And periodicals were originally collections of coffee house stories. And the oldest surviving of these is tatler, which still they didn't know that. That's very interesting. It is around now. And in 1709. Yeah. So I thought that was interesting. But also the facts about how many coffee outlets. So in 1999 there were 590 coffee outlets in the uk, and 20 years later there were 26,000.

Jo Tinsley (37:46):

Wow.

Lisa Sykes (37:47):

I mean, isn't that amazing?

Jo Tinsley (37:48):

Yeah, no, that is incredible.

Lisa Sykes (37:51):

Yeah. I dust my head in. For me, the mornings, it's not just about having, and to be honest, I don't really drink coffee in the morning. I drink tea first thing

Jo Tinsley (37:59):

Like

Lisa Sykes (37:59):

That. But it's not really what the drink is. It's the ritual of how you wake up. It's like the process of getting up and making a tea, saying hello to the dog, letting the dog out, standing on the doorstep with a tea in my hand. That is kind of how I wake up in the morning.

Jo Tinsley (38:15):

Yeah.

Lisa Sykes (38:15):

Do you have a ritual?

Jo Tinsley (38:17):

Yeah. Yeah. I mean it's very similar. It always has to tea's the first thing that I do, and it always has to be york tea, which I'm assuming you're going to be having tea.

Lisa Sykes (38:26):

Yep.

Jo Tinsley (38:27):

Yeah. I mean, I literally can't function without it. But I mean also when I'm making coffee, which I often do decaf, but it's all about the ritual of it. And however it is you make it with its stove cup or in a cierre, you take a moment to do that. So I might have that sort of mid-morning, but it's a break from your desk. Do you do? Yeah. It's a break from your work. And you're right, it's all about the ritual of it.

Lisa Sykes (38:51):

And there are other gentle things you can do to feel more awake as well. Just wearing something more colourful. Even if you're working from home, I always feel better if I put something bright on a gloomy day and noticing the colours around you in your neighbourhood, right?

Jo Tinsley (39:05):

Yeah, yeah. No, exactly. Or even some bright lipstick or I dunno, bright shoes or something like that. Just even if no one's going to see you because you're working at home. Yeah, it always gives you a little bit of a lift, doesn't

Lisa Sykes (39:15):

It? Yes, definitely. So I think we've reached that point where every episode in this season we're doing, seeing the light moments, things that we've learned or be inspired by from the things we've talked about. And hopefully you'll find one yourself too. So for me, Joe, getting dressed properly when I'm working at home, because I mean, I don't work in my pyjamas, it's not that bad, but sometimes I find myself in the kit I water my class I went to, or my dirty dog walking clothes, and I'm still wearing them in late afternoon. I just haven't got round to getting changed. I am going to start dressing properly again on the days I work at home, mainly because I'm not wearing half the stuff in my wardrobe anymore, which feels like wasteful and I don't like waste, but I think it's going to make me more alert, more awake, and feel more at work. So that is my thing I'm taking.

Jo Tinsley (40:04):

I mean, that really resonates for me. I do this all the time. I buy loads of nice things on vintage and then I dress in the same comfy way I do because it's warm. But yeah, so I will try that too, but I might actually try some of this manifestation. So just the idea of a vision board, sort of setting an intention and then in whatever way that is easy for me, pulling together some images that help me work towards that and then visualise it.

Lisa Sykes (40:28):

No, I think that's a really good thing to do. So I'm definitely feeling like I've woken up to spring. Now, thanks to Joe for co-hosting this episode. We're going to be back next week, the two of us with an episode we're calling Renew, where we're going to hopefully discover some ways to repair, reuse, and recycle, but we're also rethinking how we value things and possibly we're even going to tackle a bit of spring cleaning. I think, Joe,

Jo Tinsley (40:53):

Yeah, looking forward to it. Definitely ready for a bit of a spring clear out.

Lisa Sykes (40:57):

And so thanks once again to Blackdown for supporting this episode. And you can find out more about this Shepherds Huts now to customise one for you at blackdownshepherdhuts.co.uk. And don't forget if you are the March issue, which we've mentioned a few times in this episode, sounds like it could be interesting. You can buy one on our website. The links are in the show notes. You can also take out a subscription and immediate start. We'll see you get this issue straight away. See you next time.