Return of the Light Episode 5 - RENEW

If you’ve got an urge to ‘sort things out’ we’re here to help cheer up a chore. The Simple Things’ Editor Lisa Sykes and author of The Slow Traveller, Jo Tinsley tackle a bit of spring cleaning, appreciate new life and share some fresh thinking on finding the balance between the comfort of things and clearing out. Plus do you know your laundry labels (honestly more interesting than it sounds)

Season 5: Return of the light is supported by Blackdown Shepherd Huts

If you are in the UK, you can choose an immediate start subscription to the The Simple Things and receive the current issue straight away. Or buy current and back issues here. 

Editing and music by Arthur Cosslett.  

THINGS TO MAKE & DO

Revamp Your Woollies for Winter

https://www.thesimplethings.com/blog/revamp-woollies?rq=mending

Homemade Cleaning Wonders

https://www.thesimplethings.com/blog/129-homemade-cleaning?rq=spring%20cleaning

An excellent toolbox

https://www.thesimplethings.com/blog/good-tool-box?rq=spring%20cleaning

Conker Laundry Soap

https://www.thesimplethings.com/blog/conker-soap?rq=laundry 

ON THE BLOG

In praise of potting sheds

Allotment Sheds

Easy Eco Switch Ups

TO READ

Lessons in Chemistry by Bonnie Grams (Doubleday Books, 2022) 

Rough Patch by Kathy Slack (Little Brown 2025)

TO LISTEN

Spring cleaning songs

IN THE MARCH ISSUE

My Plot: Building a recycled shed

Gathering: BYO project party

Home economics: Patching and stitching. How to revive jeans, shirts and other wardrobe staples Identifier: Laundry symbols

IN THE FEBRUARY ISSUE

An ode to the library

Transcript

Lisa Sykes (00:12):

Hi, welcome to Small Ways to Live Well, the podcast from The Simple Things Magazine. I'm Lisa Sykes, the editor, and you found yourself here in season five in which we're celebrating the return of the light. It's all about glimpses of spring and we're going to be at your side to see you through the dog end of winter. Now our friends at Blackdown Shepherd Huts are supporting this season, so thanks very much to them. And frankly, there's no nicer place in which to watch the season turn than in one of their artisan crafted cosy huts all designed and made at their Somerset workshop. You can find out more about them at blackdownshepherdhuts.co.uk and there'll be more about them on our show notes too. So this episode we're calling Renew and my co-host today is Jo Tinsley, who's a regular contributor to The Simple Things and author of The Slow Traveller. Hi Jo. Hope you're full of the Joys of Spring.

Jo Tinsley (01:00):

Yeah, I certainly am. Yeah, it's starting to feel very spring-like around here, so yeah,

Lisa Sykes (01:04):

You are luckier than me then. It's blowing a gale outside where I am, but we're going to be tackling a bit of spring cleaning, aren't we? Appreciating new life, sharing a bit of fresh thinking on finding the balance between the comfort of things and clearing out, which is something I really struggle with and we're going to be remembering some forgotten wisdom and revaluing what we have. So Jo, do you think people are actually still spring clean?

Jo Tinsley (01:28):

I think they do. I mean I do, but I don't do it in an intentional way. I don't plan it in to do one weekend, but around this time of year I always get the urge to sort and clean and clear things out and when I get that urge I go for it.

Lisa Sykes (01:41):

And I mean, it is a ritual, isn't it? There's a culture of doing this.

Jo Tinsley (01:45):

There is, yeah, there's a cultural tradition. I think it dates back to the time when we used to heat our homes with wood and light them with lanterns, and there was so everywhere after the winter and then when spring arrived, it was time to open the windows, the doors pull out all the rugs, beat everything away. So I think it goes back to that, but I also think it's symbolic. It it is this sort of time of year when you come out of hibernation shake off the winter and it feels like a good time to sort of clean and to mend and everything outside is renewing, isn't it? The seedlings tree blossom nesting birds. It's a good time to bring that re-energizing energy into your home.

Lisa Sykes (02:20):

No, there's definitely an urge, isn't it? It's whether we can see that through to make it happen.

Jo Tinsley (02:26):

It also sometimes feels good, and I know not everyone likes cleaning, but there's some unexpected joys, isn't there? Like pegging out washing for the first time. It's such a cheerful thing.

Lisa Sykes (02:35):

I love that. It's one of my absolute pleasures. Peg it out. And of course one of the real advantages of working at home more is you don't have to worry whether it's raining when you're off at work, so you just run out and bring it in.

Jo Tinsley (02:48):

And even just cleaning your windows so that you can get the light streaming in or a simple DIY task, like painting an old chair and a colour that makes you feel happy. These are all really nice things.

Lisa Sykes (02:58):

Yes, I've got an old chair I bought that is waiting for that very task.

Jo Tinsley (03:02):

Have you?

Lisa Sykes (03:03):

I've decided instead of waiting till Easter weekend and then spending half of the weekend in the DIY store, getting all the things I need, I'm actually going to get organised in advance. I'm going to choose my colour and on the first sunny day I'm going to set my stall up outside and go for it. That sounds good. So that is my little plan, but what spring cleaning jobs and rituals do you do then?

Jo Tinsley (03:24):

I mean, just throwing open all the windows and doors as soon as it gets warm enough too, just to let that air in. It's really good, even if you have to be sat there in your wools because it's still not quite that warm.

Lisa Sykes (03:34):

That's definitely my cue to bring clean because I notice the sun shining on my dirty windows and it's like, okay, yeah, let's clean up once it's lighter. You really see the sort of grotty bits of your house, don't you?

Jo Tinsley (03:47):

Yeah, yeah. I actually quite like doing the laundry. I like doing about 90% of it. I like the washing, the drying and the folding and then I just lose interest and then my partner has to put all the clothes

Lisa Sykes (03:57):

Away. Right. Well I've got something for you then, because you're going to like this because we had a laundry symbols identifier in the March issue, and I'm not sure you've seen this yet because this issue is hot off the press.

Jo Tinsley (04:10):

It is arrived. I haven't read it yet, so yeah.

Lisa Sykes (04:12):

Okay, well that's lucky because I actually only knew about three out of nine of these. So I'm going to do a little quiz for you, and obviously it's a visual quiz.

Jo Tinsley (04:20):

You are going to quiz me,

Lisa Sykes (04:22):

Which always works so well on a podcast. I'm going to get you to draw these laundry symbols and see if you can guess what they are. Okay. And actually listeners can join in. So listeners, please do equip yourself with a pencil and some paper and I'm going to instruct you how to draw for few laundry symbols. And I think not everybody will know these, so we'll see. Right? Are you ready? Have you got your pen and paper?

Jo Tinsley (04:45):

Yeah, I am. I'm ready. I'm ready.

Lisa Sykes (04:47):

Okay. So start with a tub shape, a sort of almost a square bucket type shape. And I think we all know that means wash, right? Yeah. Got it. Yeah. And then I want you to draw a wiggly line across to represent the water in the middle, but underneath the tub, draw two horizontal lines. Hold it up so I can see if you are, yeah, okay. No, underneath the tub, Joe, not in the middle of the water. No, I'm not listening to a plate. It's alright. But anyway, that's fine. Let's pretend they're underneath the tub. Okay. What do you think that one means then?

Jo Tinsley (05:25):

Well, I would say it's hand washing, but there's not a hand is there?

Lisa Sykes (05:27):

No, no, because the is easy. That is a hand. Yeah,

Jo Tinsley (05:31):

Yeah, yeah. Is it delicate? It's like washing things carefully.

Lisa Sykes (05:34):

Yes, it's, yes, very good. What is it?

Jo Tinsley (05:36):

Okay.

Lisa Sykes (05:37):

Yeah. Delicate wash, but apparently it's a delicate wash that can be spun and rinse normally. Okay. I think you have three lines for when you can't do that with it.

Speaker 3 (05:46):

Okay.

Lisa Sykes (05:46):

Right. Okay, another one. Okay, you ready?

Jo Tinsley (05:49):

Yep.

Lisa Sykes (05:50):

Draw a square and put a horizontal line, like a dash in the middle of the square

Jo Tinsley (05:57):

All the way through it.

Lisa Sykes (05:59):

Well like a dash. So there's a gap around the edge, but it's fine. Yeah.

Jo Tinsley (06:03):

Yep.

Lisa Sykes (06:04):

Okay. Right. Hold it up. Let me check your hand. No, I said the holes is onal line. She's drawn a diagonal line. I think this is showing something. The listeners are probably doing this slightly better. But anyway, let's assume that's horizontal line. What do you think this one means? And I think this is hard, so it's basically, I'll show you.

Jo Tinsley (06:25):

Is it to do with tumble drying? It

Lisa Sykes (06:27):

Is to do with drying.

Jo Tinsley (06:29):

Okay.

Lisa Sykes (06:30):

Shall I tell you?

Jo Tinsley (06:31):

Yeah, go on.

Lisa Sykes (06:32):

Okay. It's dry flat. It must be dried flat.

Jo Tinsley (06:35):

Okay.

Lisa Sykes (06:36):

Okay.

Jo Tinsley (06:36):

Yeah, because the box is normally a tumble dry, isn't it?

Lisa Sykes (06:39):

Yeah, I know. And if you've got a square with three vertical lines in, that would be not diagonal. Like you just did three vertical lines. I'm going to get the next one wrong. That means drip dry because it looks like the top of a clothes horse, doesn't it? So if you look at it from above, yeah, right. I'll do one more because I'm failing. Okay, so draw another the square.

Jo Tinsley (07:02):

Okay, I can do

Lisa Sykes (07:03):

That. It's another drying one. I'll give you a clue. Okay. Now in this one right, I'm going to demonstrate to you because I'm not sure you'll draw the right line, but I want you to draw like that. Okay. So it looks sort of like an envelope. So basically what you're doing is you're drawing a curved line from the top left corner to the top right corner. Alright. What do you think that is?

Jo Tinsley (07:22):

I dunno. Post it to someone

Lisa Sykes (07:23):

Else. It means hang to dry because it's a washing line you see it's a washing line, isn't it?

Jo Tinsley (07:31):

Yeah, that does make sense.

Lisa Sykes (07:32):

Yeah. Okay.

Jo Tinsley (07:33):

I guess, yeah, the square is always drying, right?

Lisa Sykes (07:35):

Well I think you got wor out of four there, Joe. But actually the drone was probably worse than the guess. Sorry everybody. No, it's alright. Anyway, I

Jo Tinsley (07:42):

Think this is why I'm normally the quizmaster.

Lisa Sykes (07:44):

Let's move on. Yeah, so okay, we've got our laundry out, but what about tidying? Do you live minimally or can't even say minimally? Minimally? Or are you a hoarder?

Jo Tinsley (07:55):

I mean, I've got quite a lot of stuff, but it also stresses me out. So I want to live more minimally. I once lived in this little attic flat and I just had enough of everything. I had four plates, four glasses, four sets of cutlery, and it just made me feel so calm.

Lisa Sykes (08:08):

That's so nice, isn't it?

Jo Tinsley (08:10):

My life is not like that now. No.

Lisa Sykes (08:12):

The thing is I really want to be that person, but the comfort of things is really important to me. I think my problem is I'm actually not a very good fixer of things. I'm not that practical, but I can't bear throwing things out that are broken. I always think I'll mend them and I'm just not very good.

Jo Tinsley (08:29):

That's a terrible combination.

Lisa Sykes (08:31):

I know, but we don't really talk about decluttering because we don't really like that expression in the simple things, do we? But it is about using things well and wisely and I think I do have to accept that some of these things just will not get mended. I've been to one of my repair shops recently though. They're springing up all over the place in village halls.

Jo Tinsley (08:50):

We've got one of those like a repair cafe.

Lisa Sykes (08:52):

Yeah, no. And somebody meant my toaster, which was quite good. That nice. Yeah, I think they're great actually because loads of, and they're nearly all older people who've got skills and experience that we just don't have. I mean if you do have a spring clear out and I determined to do that this year, how do you make sure it doesn't get filled up again and books and plants and clothes. I just can't stop bringing more into the house.

Jo Tinsley (09:15):

We've had a few ideas in the last couple of issues actually that I thought were quite good, quite unexpected. I think one of them was rediscovering your local library. So I've rediscovered mine because I've got a young daughter and it's definitely saved us money on children's books. But I've also got into reading after a 20 year hiatus, so I've got a very expensive,

Lisa Sykes (09:33):

That's what young children will do for you. I've

Jo Tinsley (09:36):

Got a very expensive paperback habit right now.

Lisa Sykes (09:38):

Have you?

Jo Tinsley (09:38):

Yeah, I actually haven't done to my local library for that. And it's partly because I really enjoy owning and collecting books, but it's also because I know the librarian now from the toddler group and I'm a bit too embarrassed to ask for some of the romantic titles that are on my TP. I could move past that, but I also sort of think about getting a Kindle, but I really like the physicality of having a book sitting down with a book. It's like you're giving yourself permission to stop, aren't you? And I don't think you get that the same

Lisa Sykes (10:05):

Definitely. But it must save you loads of money, wasn't it? Imagine all the money you could save if you borrowed the books.

Jo Tinsley (10:11):

I know I should probably do it.

Lisa Sykes (10:12):

You could probably go on holiday if you saved all the books.

Jo Tinsley (10:15):

Do you do that then? Do you borrow books?

Lisa Sykes (10:17):

No. You see, I don't even really borrowing off other people because I like to have the book myself and this is really sad. So I listen to quite a lot of audio books as well as read books now. It went, I'm driving somewhere or in the kitchen making things and sometimes if I've really liked the audio book and then I see the book in a secondhand shop. Do you buy it? I'll buy the book. You buy the book. I really want to have the book.

Jo Tinsley (10:43):

I think I do the same.

Lisa Sykes (10:44):

Yeah, I think we are trying to do a one in one out policy in our house now. My partner reads a lot as well and we just don't have the bookshelf space, although we have discovered because our girls are all at uni now, that we can actually use their rooms with lots of empty shelves to put more books in. So I dunno how they're going to feel about that when they come home in the holidays. But yeah, we'll see.

Jo Tinsley (11:04):

That'll be a nice surprise. But yeah, I think there are some nice deputy editor Francis wrote about rediscovering her local library in the February issue.

Lisa Sykes (11:12):

Oh yes.

Jo Tinsley (11:13):

Yeah, there's some real nice benefits. So you can discover, you try out things without having to buy them and you might discover a new to you author and then realise you've got this entire back catalogue waiting for you

Lisa Sykes (11:25):

See your romantic stuff. There'll be lots of that, won't they?

Jo Tinsley (11:29):

Well, I really feel this because I'm quite late to this party and it's a glorious thing when you come in and you realise you don't have to wait on an incomplete series, you can just read six books altogether.

Lisa Sykes (11:39):

I should do that. I've been listening to a lot of regency romances on the audio book. I could find even more of them. Georgette Hare is a particular one that I've been, there's go maybe because you do get out for habit of using your library. I went when my kids were young, but I've kind of stopped going Really? And you need it to be part of your routine. Do you need it to go weekly?

Jo Tinsley (12:02):

I think it's, yeah, a sort of Saturday morning kind of thing where you visit the library and take your books back and get new ones. And it's just really important to support them because if we are using them, they'll continue to exist

Lisa Sykes (12:12):

Very much. And

Jo Tinsley (12:13):

There was some report in the BBCA few years ago. It was saying that they were more likely to close in some of the poorest areas of the country. So there's a big gap in provision between urban and rural areas and I just think it's important to use them. So maybe I will start using them.

Lisa Sykes (12:29):

Definitely. So what about plants then? I also am addicted to buying plants whenever I go to. I can be anywhere. I can be at farmer's market, I can be at a charity place, I can be at the supermarket. I know I've slightly gone into those rescuing the sad looking plants that are down to 50 P and bringing them back to life, which is a good thing. But I just keep bringing more plants in the house.

Jo Tinsley (12:54):

Yeah, I think one of the ways to do this is have a plant stopping party, which we've covered in the magazine before. So this could either be sort of houseplant and then you can sort of share knowledge about how to keep them thriving or it can just be cuttings and seedlings at this time of year is a nice way to do it.

Lisa Sykes (13:09):

And we've done a couple of gatherings because for people who don't know the magazine very well, gathering is kind of our main, it's the very heart of the simple things. It's about sharing good food with family and friends, but we'd sometimes like to theme them a bit. And so this one was make some nice food, get your friends around and bring a houseplant, bring your own houseplant. That's nice. And then you can swap. But we also did one that was more about seedlings as well. So this time of year you may be planting some seedlings up or sowing some seeds, growing some maybe tomatoes, other things like that. And you can swap those too. So they're quite a good idea.

Jo Tinsley (13:43):

It reminds me of very informal kind of seedling swaps that always happen at this time of year. I've got certain friends and my mother-in-law, whenever they come round without asking, they always leave some tomato plant seedlings or spare co jet plants. And then later in the year, my friend and I have been playing a game for about 10 years, which we call stealth ette. You know where you've got,

Lisa Sykes (14:04):

I know what this is going to be.

Jo Tinsley (14:05):

Yeah, when you get a glut of coquettes, but nobody wants to take them if you ask them. So we sneak them into each of his homes. I once visited my friend and she dropped me off at the train station and the train was pulling away from the station and I looked at my handbag and there was this cosette with a little note saying sorry. So yeah, if you could have little parties like that where gatherings where you sort of bring these things.

Lisa Sykes (14:28):

Oh, ettes are a nightmare though, aren't they? I mean because actually Kathy Slack, who has been doing our veg patch pantry series in the magazine and she grows and cooks. In fact, she launched her book recently, which we talked a little bit about in the last episode called Rough Patch about how gardening helped her through a rough patch. But the reason I mention it is because I went to the book launch and she made some nibbles to circulate from recipes in the book and she made marrow jammed tarts and we were like, really? Yes. Were they sweet? Amazing. I mean just amazing. You want the recipe immediately. And of course a marrow is just a giant cosette, isn't it? Yeah. So there you go. I'll try and dig out that recipe for you, but actually's in Kathy's book. So I think that could be good. I am definitely going to have a go at those. They were splendid, but yes. Sorry, we are getting distracted. I'm just thinking about how good those tarts were now. And I've lost track slightly, but yes. And then the other thing we're going to talk about is clothes. So instead of buying new, surely we need to do more mending. Do you mend?

Jo Tinsley (15:31):

I mean I can put a button on, but yeah, anything more complicated? I passed over people.

Lisa Sykes (15:36):

Not sure that Karen,

Jo Tinsley (15:37):

But I did really the look of the Japanese visible mending that we did in the issue recently.

Lisa Sykes (15:42):

Oh yeah, that's in the new issue, the march issue. Yeah, no, amazing. So beautiful Japanese mending. They,

Jo Tinsley (15:49):

It's really beautiful. I guess there's always that pressure when it's a visible mending thing that it needs to be neat, which might put people off, at least with mending you can invisible mending, then you can kind of hide it, can't you? That's the idea is that you hide it.

Lisa Sykes (16:04):

I know. I think so because I've done a bit of daring. I inherited a mushroom, the wooden mushroom used for daring from my nan and I see these beautiful videos on Instagram and they're so precise and you feel really soothed by watching someone once read the needles through the stitches. And it's never like that in reality. She jumper just isn't that neat to start with. And I'm more of a slap dash donna, so I stick to sort of socks and tights, wool tights. But actually we could mend more wools, but I think cottons are easier denims and cottons. And that's what this patching thing is about in March, isn't it?

Jo Tinsley (16:38):

Yeah. And I think Francis recently tried it in a recent issue and

Lisa Sykes (16:42):

Oh yes,

Jo Tinsley (16:42):

She was saying put that idea of neatness out of your head. See it as Mark making handwriting.

Lisa Sykes (16:49):

Oh, I

Jo Tinsley (16:49):

Love that. A way to add some personality and improve your clothes rather than just men Them.

Lisa Sykes (16:55):

Yeah, as you know, we don't do perfect in the simple things. It's a band word in the magazine and it doesn't need to look perfect, does it? It's not supposed to look factory made.

Jo Tinsley (17:04):

No, it's true. And some of these, the Japanese mending techniques, so sheko and boro stitch, they're so beautiful. Yeah, there's definitely something I want to try.

Lisa Sykes (17:14):

I know because actually a lot of it is just basically running stitch, isn't it? But used in certain ways and

Jo Tinsley (17:20):

Running stitch or some of them were little crosses or something

Lisa Sykes (17:23):

And

Jo Tinsley (17:23):

It's just, yeah, they're really nice.

Lisa Sykes (17:26):

And I also, they've got, in fact, I think we're putting this one on the blog this month. I really like patching jeans up. It a shame when your favourite jeans just go at the crotch or the thigh or whatever and you kind of, they've just reached that. I was going to say perfect then. But that superb level of softness that is just right and then you have to throw them out. But actually, so I've been patching mine, but I haven't doing it very well and they've got this technique, it's a bit like a A Saturn stitch that you use to put a patch on and I'm definitely going to be doing some of that

Speaker 3 (17:57):

And

Lisa Sykes (17:59):

I say, we'll put that in the blog as well. But you can also adapt the clothes you have to make them last longer, can't you? And there's a brilliant project we ran and I'll put a link in the show notes. It was a little while ago and I have already raided David. My partner's shirt's wardrobe for this because you've take an oversized shirt and you basically chop the top off at the yoke, chop the sleeves off and then stitch, gather the top and you've got a skirt. So

Jo Tinsley (18:26):

It's quite easy.

Lisa Sykes (18:27):

It's already got the buttons down. It might even have pockets from the shirt.

Jo Tinsley (18:31):

Nice.

Lisa Sykes (18:31):

And it's just so easy. I mean I just can't believe I haven't done this already. So yeah, I have told him I've red some shirts, but I don't think I've got actual permission for the specific shirts.

Jo Tinsley (18:43):

Just turn up wearing it.

Lisa Sykes (18:46):

Well he doesn't really wear shirts anymore. He used to wear them for work, so they're all just sat there. That's the thing though, because I've told you before, I go to a sewing class every week and we all get so excited about new fabrics and I've got lots of shiny new fabrics already in the house waiting or stuff that I've got left from over, not using enough in a pattern. So I'm thinking maybe I'll host a fabric stash swap. Can't actually say that, but

Jo Tinsley (19:13):

That's a nice idea,

Lisa Sykes (19:15):

A fabric stash swap. We're actually going to be shooting a clothes swap coffee morning gathering for next year. But I think swapping your stash of fabric could be really good, couldn't

Jo Tinsley (19:24):

It? That's really good. And I like the idea of getting people together to just finish those projects that you haven't finished. I get about 90% through something and then get way laid or something and then it's so frustrating to have one of those projects just hanging around that you haven't finished.

Lisa Sykes (19:37):

I know loose ends. Lots of loose ends, isn't it? Yeah. So we've got a gathering in the march issue. This March issue is really proving the business in terms of things that you want to do at this time of year. It almost like we planned it. You basically get your friends round, bring a project with you to do round the table while you're eating nice snacks. I'm slightly worried though because one of the things on there is like spicy wedges and I can see spicy wedge fingers ruining my little sewing project, so I'd have to be very careful. But you can't take any old project, obviously you can't really drag your sewing machine to the table. But I guess there's things like yarn and hand sewing or knitting and embroidery.

Jo Tinsley (20:16):

It's stuff you can kind of chat around, isn't it?

Lisa Sykes (20:19):

Yes, exactly. Because

Jo Tinsley (20:20):

If it's too complicated you won't be able to hold a conversation. It's all about the sort of socialness as well, isn't it?

Lisa Sykes (20:25):

And also if you haven't got a project, you can always bring a craft kit, can't you?

Jo Tinsley (20:28):

That's true, that's true. Yeah.

Lisa Sykes (20:30):

It always amazes me when I'm following a pattern because I always think, oh, look at me, I'm getting this pattern and it's all working really well and aren't I good? And then I stopped to think about the person who actually made the pattern in the first place. I'm in awe of these people. Obviously it's recipe writers or pattern designers, but how do you think they even begin to start? I know, I don't get it.

Jo Tinsley (20:56):

Yeah, that was a feature in the magazine as well, wasn't it? The drafters and it was like a recipe writer.

Lisa Sykes (21:01):

Oh yeah, ages ago. Yeah,

Jo Tinsley (21:03):

A pattern designer, choreographer, composer. Like the people who start things from scratch. I mean it's a real skill isn't it, to make something original.

Lisa Sykes (21:10):

Definitely. And actually that is a very neat link to our story because this episode's read aloud story is someone who has their own very special skills to settle back and enjoy

(21:33):

A short story by Bonnie Garma. You're at a party, you've talked to several people, they all work in tech. They all make five times what you do. The party's giving you a complex who needs this. You grab your coat and head for the door enjoying yourself. A man with gin and tonic breath asks you as you slip the unopened bottle of wine you brought back into your bag. Sure am. He asks you what you do for a living admin then for fun, not this here, there are only two answers, Bitcoin or NFTs. So you book the trend home repair, you say, because it's true you love fixing things. He looks back dubious. You are saying you actually enjoy home repair. I do. He picks up a cracker, smears it with beige cheese. What sort of things do you enjoy repairing? Then he mocks just little things you say modestly, reg grouting, lamp rewiring, leaky taps, you nearly electrocuted yourself, rewiring the lamp.

(22:37):

He nods. Then looks around for someone else to talk to. I also fixed a large hole in my roof. You brag from five feet away. The party host Hova hears this. She almost died. She announces party host is a friend from work. She's also the friend who picked you up from a and e after you fell off the roof. Suddenly you are more interesting than Bitcoin. The digerati moves in with a oh this I've got to hear fascination as party Hirsch recounts your tail carefully emitting important details like the fact you'd been up there for two hours without incident, successfully removing the failed slates before replacing them with new ones, also without incident. Enjoying yourself in that way. That comes from discovering you are a person who can do things herself in order to get to the good part about how you were attacked by a small helpless bird.

(23:31):

She offers a braly and accurate synopsis of how you fought to defend yourself against something that weighs less than an ounce and is toothless despite your size. You lost the fight result six hours in a e plus 10 you could have died. Comments from fellow a e occupants in various states of disrepair. Everyone loves the bird detail. What kind of bird they want to know? A sparrow, a finch, one of those cute little red breasted ones. Suddenly everyone is a bird lover. Was it hurt? They ask, is the bird okay? Your party host friend assures them that the bird is okay, even though she has no idea if that's true. This incident happened eight months ago. The bird is probably dead eaten by a cat, fell by an avian heart attack. You have no idea. All you know is that it practically gave you a heart attack when it beat its little wings hard against your face.

(24:26):

I bet it was protecting its nest. Someone says is the nest okay, nevermind that you were only up there because you were trying to protect your own nest anyway, you never saw a nest. But everyone who hears this story is now not only a bird lover but a bird expert. I'm pretty sure sparrows are in danger as someone starts but can't finish because the music stops and the room goes dark, gasps all around. Where's the electrical panel? You ask party host, you sound exactly like a doctor on TV in another minute the lights come back on people and are overloaded. Circuit you shrug as everyone looks back wide-eyed with respect, which you enjoy a lot. I hadn't realised when I chose this story from our back catalogue. We commissioned an original story in every single issue of the simple things that it was by Bonnie Garma who wrote the wonderful and hugely popular lessons in chemistry. I'm sure lots of people have read it. I dunno if you've read it Joe, but it's about a female scientist who becomes a cooking show host in the sixties in California and it tackles sexism and science education and challenges. Our view of the family and Aetna, our books editor, she's got a real knack of asking these up and coming writers to contribute just as they debut. We also had a story by Gail Honeyman. I dunno, have you read? Eleanor Elephant is completely fine.

Jo Tinsley (25:59):

No, I've heard of it. I haven't read that.

Lisa Sykes (26:01):

It's such a great title for a book and we had a story by her as well. So I love the fact that we're getting these stories by these writers who then go on to do really interesting novels

Jo Tinsley (26:10):

And I like that story. It felt quite different. I love the fact that she was so practical as well.

Lisa Sykes (26:15):

Yeah, no, and it's underappreciated skills, isn't it? We've got this whole series in the magazine about people being practical on their plots called Guess What? My Plot. And sometimes they use old materials to create something new. And the one in the March issue, it's great because she's built a shed from repurposed windows

Jo Tinsley (26:36):

That was really nice

Lisa Sykes (26:37):

And she's got potato sack curtains and scrap materials from the trip.

Jo Tinsley (26:42):

Yeah, I think what I really about that one was that it was her and her partner and they just worked out what it was that they wanted from the shed and then how to make it nice. They had a desk in there and they had sort of space to plan and plant, but also a space to warm up with a flask of tea in chapter neighbours. They always had a powder room as she called it, which I think was Aloo

Lisa Sykes (27:01):

Compost. Yeah,

Jo Tinsley (27:02):

A compost loop. Well, if you're

Lisa Sykes (27:03):

On the allotment all day, it's a really practical idea, isn't it? Yeah,

Jo Tinsley (27:07):

Yeah, exactly.

Lisa Sykes (27:09):

Yeah, that's the point, isn't it? There are no rules. And I think that's the great thing about allotments is they do let people do what they want from using up things, don't they? But this one didn't she pl it around? She removed some windows from their cottage. They were renovating, weren't they? And so she actually just literally drew out the design herself. Again, you don't need

Jo Tinsley (27:33):

Just on a scrap piece of paper.

Lisa Sykes (27:35):

Yeah, it doesn't have to be exact, does it? And I think that Make Doing Mend is such a part of allotment culture and also they avoid chemicals, eat seasonally, composting. It's all things that we cover in the magazine, isn't it? That's true. Of course. I should mention as we're talking sheds, we are obviously being supported by a very market shed company this season. Blackdown Shepherd Hus definitely a bit more luxurious than either our garden sheds or the original Shepherd Huts for that matter. But I mean they are so comfortable that many of their owners open them up for people to go and stay in. Did you know this Joe? Actually, they can actually go and stay one.

Jo Tinsley (28:13):

I didn't know this. No.

Lisa Sykes (28:14):

Yeah, so Blackdown helped promote them with its sister website. It's called Shepherd Hook breaks.co uk. They reckon they've got about 500 huts out there now. And I've actually stayed in one and you know what? I did not want.

Jo Tinsley (28:27):

They're lovely, aren't they? To stay in Shepherd Hooks. I've stayed in Shepherd Hooks before.

Lisa Sykes (28:31):

Totally. I did not want to give it back after a weekend. They're just a really nice blend of comfort and clever practical details. But they're not so overdone. You do feel like you're still living in the outdoors.

Jo Tinsley (28:41):

Yeah, yeah.

Lisa Sykes (28:43):

And they've also got a self-build version and of course early spring is a very good time for planning and building a shed on your plot.

Jo Tinsley (28:49):

Yeah. Do you remember that one? I mean it was years ago, but it was in the magazine making a shed from three upcycled doors.

Lisa Sykes (28:55):

Oh, this was one of my favourite projects. And I mean, I know you need a few woodworking skills, but go on, tell us about the project. It is really fun.

Jo Tinsley (29:03):

Yeah, so it just, because you don't always think that greenhouses and putting sheds are going to look beautiful, but actually this was so charming. It was just literally like three doors, glazed doors so the light could come through the windows and then there was a scaffold and a bit of corrugated tin and it just created this really simple, partly open shelter where you could grow herbs and small plants and keep them sheltered. And I think

Lisa Sykes (29:26):

That's great.

Jo Tinsley (29:27):

It's really nice because not everyone has space for a big shed. It's the sort of thing that you could have in, I dunno, front garden or in an allotment or

Lisa Sykes (29:36):

Even a backyard. Even if you haven't got much of a garden at all. You could still have that, couldn't you?

Jo Tinsley (29:41):

Yeah. Have you ever had an allotment?

Lisa Sykes (29:42):

Oh yes. I was just going to ask you the same question. Were you, when I lived in London in my early thirties, we bought this house we didn't even realise, but there was a whole community allotment behind it and we ended up being able to get a plot there and it was the best experience. I mean, I'd grown a few things in my garden before, but I hadn't really had that community of allotments and people share seeds and of course because it's in a city, there are people with heritage from all over the world. So there's different people growing very different things. And I really got to know my neighbours, which is also unusual in a city. I

Jo Tinsley (30:17):

Think that's really nice. I dunno, I thought that allotments would be quite a solitary thing, but it must be a really lovely community. And I think there's something about friendships like that, those kind of intergenerational friendships when you get to know people who you wouldn't normally necessarily spend time with and you can learn a lot from people and you share a lot.

Lisa Sykes (30:35):

The thing about community growing is you do get quite a lot of unwanted advice as well.

Jo Tinsley (30:39):

Yeah, I bet.

Lisa Sykes (30:39):

But I think everyone's there. There's a bit of respect that you're there to get on with the job. So it's like water cooler conversations in offices and literally you do meet around the water tower. Oh, the trough?

Jo Tinsley (30:51):

Yeah. Where do you meet? Around the composter or something?

Lisa Sykes (30:54):

Oh yeah, if you're buying a big, sometimes people buy manure and things or composting bulk. So there's a heap of it and you literally meet there and have a little chat and then go on your way. And plunk vegetables, they are little friendships and they build up over years of little conversations. They,

Jo Tinsley (31:12):

It's really nice. And I think one of the really nice things about allotments is that there's nothing that doesn't get reused. Do you know what I mean? Because there's always someone there to pass something onto or they're passing it onto you. And I think that's something that we can bring into our own gardens whether you've got an allotment or not.

Lisa Sykes (31:25):

Yeah, definitely. And knowing your gardens, supporting wildlife, it just feels really good. And of course the added bonus, even if it wasn't your motivation is you're going to reduce carbon if you are guarding negro friendly way as well.

Jo Tinsley (31:41):

I think that's the thing, isn't it? A lot of things like the benefit of it is reducing carbon and living in a more climate friendly way, but it's actually really good for you and really good for your wildlife and creates a garden that is flourishing anyway.

Lisa Sykes (31:54):

What do you do? Yeah, what do you do in your garden then?

Jo Tinsley (31:56):

I mean we extend NoMo may for quite a bit longer. It's just I've always known as not mowing.

Lisa Sykes (32:02):

Oh yes, mine's NoMo summer. Yeah. And I think my pond's probably the most beneficial thing in my garden. It does need a bit of attention now though I've noticed it's less biodiverse. I think the plants have got so embedded that there's less clear water. So the thing is there are always winners and losers aren't there because actually the less clear water means the tab poles are not getting, they can hide more from the NUS so they're not getting devoured immediately.

Jo Tinsley (32:32):

Yeah, we've got that in our pond. A constant sort of battle going on.

Lisa Sykes (32:36):

Yeah, it is nature of tooth and claw in a pond, isn't it? Yes. And I'd really like to spend more time just sitting and watching my pond actually, because there's always something happening, isn't there?

Jo Tinsley (32:46):

Yeah, there is, but there's lots of other things you can do to grow in a more sustainable way. So letting nature do the digging, so not vigorously turning over the soil unless it's really compacted, which at releases carbon into the atmosphere, but only dig when you're planting, for instance.

Lisa Sykes (33:04):

Oh, do you know what? I'd love that because my digging days, I wouldn't say they're over, but they're more limited now. When I had an allotment and then a big veg packs, I used to spend so much time digging, but actually I get exhausted digging now.

Jo Tinsley (33:17):

And it can put you off spending that time, can't it? If you think.

Lisa Sykes (33:19):

Yeah. But actually the thinking now is you don't need to dig much at all, do

Jo Tinsley (33:24):

You? Yeah. And even just a lot of these things let the pressure off a bit like leaving grass clippings on the lawn, it's a natural fertiliser and it allows nitrogen to be released back into the soil. A lot of these things take the pressure off having to do some of those heavy jobs.

Lisa Sykes (33:39):

Yeah, definitely. Do you remember there was a great feature we ran called Think Like a Herbivore?

Jo Tinsley (33:45):

I do.

Lisa Sykes (33:45):

And the principle of it, actually, it was written by Isabella Tree who was rewilding pioneer, isn't she? And she has the estate at nep, which I've been to and is amazing. I mean you feel like you're on safari when you walk around it because it's such a wild experience.

Jo Tinsley (34:01):

Do they have loads of sort of big wild animals? Yeah,

Lisa Sykes (34:04):

They actually can't have buffalo there, which they really want. Oh, bison. Because they freak out with dogs and they've got footpaths through their land, but they have got beaver and they've got wild pigs or Tamworth pigs and they've got wild ponies and deer. So they really do make it feel wild actually. So Isabella Tree wrote this book about Think like a herbivore. And so the idea is that you consider yourself the keynote species, the top dog as it were in your garden, and what you do mimics the snout of a pig or the teeth of a pony. Just brilliant.

Jo Tinsley (34:40):

Yeah, no, I remember that one. Digging like a wild boar is one of them, wasn't it? So turning the earth over with a trow in the way that they would sort of pour at the ground because it releases, I think it helps supplant and insects to colonise new ground, doesn't it?

Lisa Sykes (34:54):

Yeah, definitely. Because it creates little roots and hollows things. It is more habitat basically for very small creatures, especially insects and microbes and things.

Jo Tinsley (35:05):

And there was pruning like a goat as well, wasn't there?

Lisa Sykes (35:08):

Oh, that's brilliant. So basically when we cook with a sec or pruning, she is, it's how goats would graze brows bushes and it actually stimulates regrowth and you get a more dense shrub. And because plants have evolved to protect themselves from browsing animals, which is why you get thorny plants and thorny scrub, which is really good for birds because they can hide in and amongst the thorns away from predators.

Jo Tinsley (35:35):

And there's lots of other ways to of garden in a more sort of thoughtful way, isn't it? With a feature on plastic free gardening in the magazine a while ago. I mean you sort of imagine the amount of plastic we get through with pots and bedding trays and you know that if you get the black pots, they can't recycle them, but if you get beige pots they can. So you can put them in your household recycling. So

Lisa Sykes (35:58):

I did not know that. I've noticed that there's more beige pots when you buy plants now, but I just thought that was aesthetic. But is that right? So interesting. So beige plots can be recycled in your recycling, but black ones can't. Okay, well that's worth knowing, isn't it?

Jo Tinsley (36:17):

Yeah, but I mean there's also, you can reuse your old pots, you can look after them better, just store them in a dark place. The sun makes them really brittle and unusable.

Lisa Sykes (36:24):

Yeah, well it's frightening, isn't it? Because according to Gardener's world, we get through half a billion plastic pots and bedding trays every year. Yeah,

Jo Tinsley (36:31):

I can imagine.

Lisa Sykes (36:33):

That is mental, isn't it?

Jo Tinsley (36:35):

Yes, it's

Lisa Sykes (36:35):

So many. Yeah, so keeping 'em out of landfill, recycling your pots. But presumably you can have a pot bank. You could share your pots with neighbours.

Jo Tinsley (36:45):

Yeah, yeah. Or seek out terracotta pots.

Lisa Sykes (36:48):

Oh yeah. They're always nice. They

Jo Tinsley (36:50):

All like propagating instead of buying new packets of seeds and choosing quality tools that are going to last. And you can often find a few of these things, not just at garden stores, but zero waste stores.

Lisa Sykes (37:02):

Oh yeah. They are just growing. They're all over the place now, aren't they? Zero waste stores. Yeah,

Jo Tinsley (37:07):

Because it's not just sort of grains and pastas and things like that. There will be gardening things. No, you've

Lisa Sykes (37:12):

Met a couple actually, haven't you?

Jo Tinsley (37:14):

I did, yeah. I interviewed a couple of people for a recent feature in the magazine. I interviewed Jackie Sewell from By the Kilo in Mout Metro Station and Kelly Moylan from Zero Waste Pantry in Tonne in North Somerset. And yeah, it was really fascinating to see how these places have just become real hubs of the community. They was kind of set up around lockdown kind of time.

Lisa Sykes (37:35):

And they don't just sell your dried foods like pasta and rice and beans. Do they sell cleaning products and plastic free toiletries?

Jo Tinsley (37:42):

Toiletries. You can even get peanut butter on tap. On

Lisa Sykes (37:46):

Tap. No, I can't stand peanut butters. That wouldn't be what I'd go for. But I do love the fact that they feel like modern grocers, don't they? They've got that local shop personal service feel that disappeared decades ago.

Jo Tinsley (38:00):

And

Lisa Sykes (38:00):

It's so important I think to support one if there's one near you just as you would a farm shop, because actually they're part of the community of food-based businesses in local areas, aren't they?

Jo Tinsley (38:12):

Yeah, and I think Kelly made a really good point when we were talking because it can seem really pointless. It can seem like whatever you do doesn't make a difference,

Speaker 3 (38:19):

But

Jo Tinsley (38:20):

Really individual choices do have a huge impact once we're all doing them. But also once you make one change, you're more likely to make other changes. You're more likely to have more conversations about how to live in a more sustainable way. So yeah, supporting them does have a real ripple effect.

Lisa Sykes (38:33):

Well, on that very, very important note, Joe, I think it's time for us see the light moment. This is where we share something that has inspired us to take action from our episode so listeners can also find one too. And I think the key thing is to state your intention. So Joe, go for your seeing the light moment.

Jo Tinsley (38:52):

I think I was feeling embarrassed about how badly I mend my clothes. So I think I'm going to be mending my own clothes and not passing it on to other people to do. That's going to be mine.

Lisa Sykes (39:02):

Oh, that's good. Yeah, start small. Pick something simple. I think I am going to rethink my shed and greenhouse. I feel like I can make more use of the space there and a bit of a clear out. I'm not sure I'm ready to clear out my entire house, but I will clear out my shed and it'll give me a bit more room. We have this greenhouse gathering in an autumn issue last year and I love the idea of using my shed and greenhouse as somewhere to be, not just to store things and grow things.

(39:28):

So that's my intention for this episode. So hopefully we've inspired you to renew or rethink a few things this spring. And if you're listening to this on a day that doesn't feel like spring at all, then maybe just make some plans because that's always the most fun part of a project, isn't it? And don't forget, you can get the new March issue of The Simple Things on news stands now or direct from us. Or you can choose an immediate start subscription and you'll get it straight away. Thanks very much to Jo for enthusiastic wisdom as always, and to Blackdown for the support us and for making such dreamy spaces. You'll find their website details and many other things that we've mentioned today in our show notes. And the next episode is our last one in this season. I'll be back with wellbeing editor Rebecca Frank, and we're going to be hoping to blossom and flourish to welcome in spring at last and look forward to an extra hour of daylight. And I'm just going to leave you with a quick plug for our Easter special, which will be released on Good Friday in which Jo, Becs and I will be recording in a Blackdown Shepherd sauna and cold plunge hut.

Jo Tinsley (40:30):

I

Lisa Sykes (40:30):

Can't wait. They're warming up with hot chocolate. Another treat. I don't know. You're looking forward to this Joe, aren't you?

Jo Tinsley (40:35):

I'm really looking forward to this one. This one's going to be really fun.

Lisa Sykes (40:37):

Great. Well thanks for listening and we'll see you next time.