Golden Days - Episode 2 - BEGIN

In this second episode at the start of the new school year The Simple Things’ Editor Lisa Sykes and regular contributor Jo Tinsley indulge in a bit of schooldays nostalgia but also discuss why it’s a good time to take on new projects, find new habits, make something new and learn a few skills.

 If you are in the UK, you can try an immediate start subscription to the The Simple Things and receive the current issue straight away. Or buy current and back issues here

Editing by Dhylyn Foster. Music by Arthur Cosslett. 

On the blog

Things to do with Weird Veg Box Vegetables

 Parsnip panpipes (yes, really)

To read

Forecast: A diary of the Lost Seasons, by Joe Shute (Bloomsbury)

In The Simple Things

From the September TREASURE issue (159) 

The Slapdash Manifesto: General principles for good enough

Wearing Well: Wristwatches

Buy the September issue here

IN PREVIOUS ISSUES

Revisiting team sports (Issue 147, September 2024)

Veg box suppers: golden marrow marmalade, Moroccalili (Issue 111, September 2011)

Wearing Well Backpacks (Issue 111, September 2021)

Miscellany: How to win at conkers (Issue 136, October 2023)

Clapping game lyrics

A sailor went to sea, sea, sea

To see what he could see, see, see

But all that he could see, see, see

Was the bottom of the deep blue sea, sea, sea

A sailor went to knee, knee, knee

To see what he could knee, knee, knee

But all that he could knee, knee, knee

Was the bottom of the deep blue knee, knee, knee

A sailor went to chop, chop, chop

To see what he could chop, chop, chop, 

But all that he could chop, chop, chop

Was the bottom of the deep blue chop, chop, chop

Transcript

Lisa Sykes (00:12):

Hi, welcome to episode two of Golden Days, season seven of Small Ways to Live Well. I'm Lisa Sykes, editor of The Simple Things Magazine, and I'm joined by our regular contributor and editor of the Slow Traveller, Joe Tinsley for what we are calling the Begin episode, which seems kind of appropriate here. We are at the start of a new school year, but we're also going to be talking about why it's a good time to start new projects, find new habits, maybe buy or make a few new things and learn some new skills. Actually, that sounds like quite a to-do list, doesn't it, Joe?

Jo Tinsley (00:42):

It does sound like quite a lot. Maybe in the spirit of The Simple Things, we should maybe have a could do list.

Lisa Sykes (00:47):

Definitely. And for any readers, people who are not readers, that could do list is something we publish in the beginning of every issue, and it is kind of like a guilt-free possibles list, isn't it, for the month ahead. Our September issue's on sale now, and you can also subscribe and get it sent direct to you straight away, all the details of how to subscribe, but also what we're going to be talking about are going to be in the show notes on the app. We've been talking about back to school a lot, Joe, haven't we? And it's funny, isn't it? How long that back to school feeling remains, even when it's been decades since you went to school, even longer for me than you, but why does September still feel like the start of the year more so than January ever does for me?

Jo Tinsley (01:26):

It's really weird, isn't it? Yeah. For me, I've got that feeling. It's like a fresh start, a feeling where I want to get stuff done. It feels like you've got loads of possibilities and new beginnings. Definitely. But I think it's the same for many other people. So I was looking this up, for instance, good routines and habits, like gym attendance increases in September. It's like the second most popular month after January.

Lisa Sykes (01:44):

Does it really? That's very interesting. Yeah.

Jo Tinsley (01:46):

Yeah. There's more jobs that advertised in September. There's more houses go on the market, more people diet in September, more people shop, there's new courses starting. So it's like everyone is kind of capitalising on this sort of idea that we're all looking for new starts, new beginnings.

Lisa Sykes (02:01):

And I know we don't really do resolutions at New Year in the simple things, but those feel like resolutions, don't we? And actually probably if you are going to make some kind of commitments to yourself, September's a much friendlier time to do it than the beginning of January, isn't it?

Jo Tinsley (02:16):

I know. It's like if you are already feeling this kind of feeling, it's a good way to work out how to harness it. But I was also looking into why that might be. There's a lot of different cultural traditions and biological factors relating to changing of the seasons that mean that help us feel like this as well. So one of the reasons is our circadian rhythms. So circadian rhythms are the mental, physical behavioural changes that follow a roughly 24 hour

Lisa Sykes (02:40):

Cycle. This is your body clock, right?

Jo Tinsley (02:42):

Your body clock, and it governs nearly every second of our sleeping and waking days. But the shift from longer summer days to shorter autumn days impacts our circadian rhythms and it affects our sleep wake cycle and it influences our mood and energy.

Lisa Sykes (02:57):

Interesting. Yeah.

Jo Tinsley (02:58):

It's actually because we have this altered melatonin, this sort of sleep inducing hormone levels because there's less light in the day, we become more sleepy. So we're less likely to want to go out and socialise. We're more likely to want to adhere to early to bed, early to rise routine. How interesting. So we are doing this routine to counteract the fact that we're actually feeling quite sleepy at this time of year.

Lisa Sykes (03:20):

So although you think you're more energised in September, you've got your routine back.

Jo Tinsley (03:24):

Yeah,

Lisa Sykes (03:24):

We're not, it's really because you've got your routine back and that's disguising the fact you're actually a bit more tired, so you shouldn't beat yourself up. If you're feeling a bit tired, then

Jo Tinsley (03:34):

No, no. But the other reason is we've got these sort of ingrained habits, so habits are really hard to break.

Lisa Sykes (03:39):

Oh, yeah.

Jo Tinsley (03:40):

But imagine sort of a habit, that sort of new school sort of thing that's been going on for years, you ingrained it in this really formative time between four and 18 or have long you're in school. Our brains retain that programming and then we look for the various sort of emotional signals around that. It's actually, yeah, we've programmed it into our brain. That's

Lisa Sykes (04:01):

So interesting. Yeah. And also, of course, what you don't realise, or I certainly didn't, that if you have children, you're going to do it all over again with them too.

Jo Tinsley (04:09):

Yeah.

Lisa Sykes (04:09):

I know this is really poignant for you because your daughter is started school this week. She

Jo Tinsley (04:15):

Is, yeah. So we obviously record this a couple of weeks in advance. So she's got two weeks at the moment, but as this comes out, she'll have had two mornings in school and she's really excited. She's really excited.

Lisa Sykes (04:26):

She tried a uniform on. She's all a bit big and

Jo Tinsley (04:31):

So many times. Yeah, yeah. She hasn't stopped wearing her school shoes, but I think the wrong thing she doesn't realise is that it's going to be five days a week for the remainder of however many years.

Lisa Sykes (04:41):

No, about day three. They usually go, I don't really want to go today. This is, it's like, yes. Sorry. Sorry about that. Yeah. Oh, that is funny. But if this is really the new year, we can expect this pace shift, can't we? Yeah. Bex and I were talking a little bit about this last week, about savouring summer because it's very short, fleeting time, this kind of in-between time, isn't it? End of summer, beginning of autumn. But because we've got more energy and zest, even if it's about our routine come the Equinox, we'll have a lot less, won't we? Because the light plummets and we'll be retrenched and the night's darkened.

Jo Tinsley (05:14):

Yeah, yeah, definitely.

Lisa Sykes (05:15):

So I think it is all about resetting after summer and setting some new goals, isn't it?

Jo Tinsley (05:20):

Yeah. I think it's a really good idea to just kind of take that and run with it if you're feeling it anyway.

Lisa Sykes (05:24):

And because we are starting already, obviously you said we were recording this a couple of weeks earlier, but by mid-September when this is coming out or early September, that shift in temperature, you will get the odd crisp morning, won't you?

Jo Tinsley (05:36):

Yeah. And I think that's really interesting to notice these shifts in seasons because like you say, it's such a fleeting thing. We're not into proper autumn. It's this early kind of time of autumn, like I'm noticing we've got Swifts near us and swallows in other places. They start gathering on telephone wires to prepare for their sort of flight.

Lisa Sykes (05:55):

There are really tangible signs, aren't there? Yeah.

Jo Tinsley (05:58):

And then you get the slows on hedgerows. There's acorns on the ground, there's conquers in the trees.

Lisa Sykes (06:02):

Oh yeah.

Jo Tinsley (06:03):

And there's this really nice thing I had to look it up. It's called Boston Ivy. Oh

Lisa Sykes (06:06):

Yeah.

Jo Tinsley (06:06):

When the Ivy turns bright red near our house, our neighbours ivy just comes down and fills this whole wall next to my house. It goes bright red for, I don't know, 10 days or something.

Lisa Sykes (06:15):

Now that's interesting. I've got Virginia Creeper. I wonder if a Virginia creeper in Boston Ivy are actually the same thing, but they were just naked arrival sort of way, and they turn complete. And I've got an Acer in my garden that goes golden. And then red and the colours are amazing. And every year I think, oh, is it going to be as nice? And it always is beautiful, just so stunning. But the thing for me is the seed heads. I love this energy of the meadow where it lets things go and you see the clocks of the flowers, don't you? And just the seed heads, of course, you're not in a rush to clear them up. We now know it's a really good thing to leave them in your garden for things to over winter in them. And there's just so many bugs on those seed heads at this time of year as

Speaker 3 (06:57):

Well,

Lisa Sykes (06:57):

And round as I spend quite a lot of time up north as well. And there are whole flocks of goldfinches flying around a charm of goldfinches. We now know we do a collective noun series in the magazine, don't we? A charm of gold. Fin is such a lovely idea. And also up here, right on the edge of Yorkshire and Cumbria, when I come up north and we get red squirrels and red squirrels gathering their winter stores on feeders just makes you want to prepare for winter as well, doesn't

Jo Tinsley (07:23):

It? Meanwhile, in the southwest, this is when the grey squirrels move back into my roof or the roof rabbits, as we call

Speaker 4 (07:28):

Them.

Lisa Sykes (07:29):

Oh,

Jo Tinsley (07:31):

I don't actually know their squirrels, but something is dropping, starts dropping nuts just as you're falling asleep.

Lisa Sykes (07:36):

I think the most exotic sound of Autumn though is because it's deer rooting season and it is like hearing lions roar in the woods. It's quite atmospheric.

Jo Tinsley (07:44):

Yeah. If you dunno what it is, it's a bit scary. We've got the kind of barks of, well, the little ones called monk jack is

Lisa Sykes (07:49):

Oh yeah, the monk jacks. Yeah,

Jo Tinsley (07:50):

Yeah, yeah. It's kind of spooky.

Lisa Sykes (07:52):

Anyway, so there all these natural observations that reveal the seasons are shifting. But you've got some interesting stuff from a book we read, didn't we?

Jo Tinsley (08:01):

Yeah, it was a book by Joe Shoot, wasn't it? Yeah, it was in the issue 1, 1, 1. And he wrote a book called Forecast, A Diary of Lost Seasons. And while he was focusing mainly on spring, there's some interesting stuff about Autumn as well. So according to record, spring is now arriving 8.4 days earlier, comparing the last 20 years to the 20th century.

Lisa Sykes (08:22):

Okay. Yeah.

Jo Tinsley (08:22):

So Spring's arriving earlier, but Autumn is actually arriving later, so leaves are turning later than they did even 30 to a hundred years ago in Britain.

Lisa Sykes (08:31):

Interesting.

Jo Tinsley (08:32):

Which means that the berries are ripening earlier.

Lisa Sykes (08:34):

Yeah,

Jo Tinsley (08:34):

I noticed that. I went blackberry picking well yesterday and almost everything had dried up, and that's because the Blackberries ripened in late June this year.

Lisa Sykes (08:42):

Wow. Yeah. No, I definitely picked Bloods in July, which is unusual, isn't it? There was a figure that you got, I think, from the Met offices Well, about the growing season, wasn't it?

Jo Tinsley (08:51):

Yeah.

Lisa Sykes (08:51):

Isn't it about a month longer that the growing season than 50 years ago? It sounds like a good thing, but of course what that actually means is that those hedgerow foods like Blackberries that creatures use to fill up their fat stores for winter are going to be much earlier, aren't

Jo Tinsley (09:07):

They? Yeah. Yeah. I was reading as well that blackbirds are really in trouble this year. Oh, really? It's going to be hard for them to find the food. The food is already ripened and isn't there for them anymore because lots of animals obviously filling up or storing their food at this time of year, and if it's already gone, they're going to be in trouble.

Lisa Sykes (09:20):

Interesting. We've got a little piece in our new September issue, which is a treasures issue. And this is a little bit sad as well about hog lots orphans, which are late born hedgehogs that get abandoned by their mothers in favour of stocking up themselves. Oh my gosh. So they just abandoned their little late born hogs. The word hog just makes it even worse, doesn't it? So I know Orphan hogs, I

Jo Tinsley (09:42):

Would love to find an orphan ho.

Lisa Sykes (09:44):

So basically, if you spot one, you can help them by lay down their fat stores by putting out meaty cattle or dog food and water, possibly a little bit of kibble, but definitely not the bread and milk of our childhoods. That was bad. So anyway, more positively. We're feeling different. The weather's changing, but can we remember what September was like when we were at school? I mean, I'm not sure I can remember the weather, but I remember what I wore on the first day of school. What did you wear? We didn't have to wear uniform then you see, for infant school, my mum had made me a dress and it was red with blue rick rack braid on it. That's

Jo Tinsley (10:17):

So sweet.

Lisa Sykes (10:17):

And a matching pump bag for PE kit. Because he must've been buying a lot of uniform, huh?

Jo Tinsley (10:22):

Yeah. Yeah. I've bought some stuff on vintage and some new stuff. I was just amazed by how many different types of uniform. I just counted it before then it was like 14 different types of things to buy. Do you know what I mean? Like

Lisa Sykes (10:33):

14 things.

Jo Tinsley (10:34):

Yeah, yeah. You've got your dresses in and you've got your PFOS and your skirts.

Lisa Sykes (10:37):

Yeah,

Jo Tinsley (10:37):

Yeah. And even for pe, there was about four different items you have to get, including your DAPs, DAPs for pe

Lisa Sykes (10:43):

DAPs. It's

Jo Tinsley (10:43):

Like why can't they wear trainers? What?

Lisa Sykes (10:46):

DAPs. Oh, like PLIs Souls.

Jo Tinsley (10:47):

Yeah. They're the southwestern for Bliss Souls.

Lisa Sykes (10:50):

Interesting. There you go. Every day's a school day. But on those first days, you see all the kids, don't you? The girls have obviously got the little check dresses on and sometimes the boys' angles wearing shorts, aren't they?

Speaker 3 (11:01):

Yeah.

Lisa Sykes (11:01):

And there's suddenly there's a nip in the air and they're freezing. The hardy ones might hold on until the clocks go back, but really the only people who wear shorts after that are postman. Right?

Jo Tinsley (11:10):

Yeah. Yeah. Exactly.

Lisa Sykes (11:11):

Exactly. So what are the school memories? I like school memories. They're fun, aren't they?

Jo Tinsley (11:15):

Oh, I just remember playing conquers a lot at this time of year.

Lisa Sykes (11:18):

Oh yeah. Conquer fight

Jo Tinsley (11:21):

And liking to Vink. I was quite good at it. I got really competitive at conquers.

Lisa Sykes (11:24):

We did a really good piece about how to win at Conquers, actually.

Jo Tinsley (11:27):

Yeah,

Lisa Sykes (11:28):

I'll put the link in the show notes. I can't remember which issue it was, but there's a lot of techniques, isn't there? What did you use to use?

Jo Tinsley (11:33):

There's a lot of techniques, which I'll go through in a minute, but there was also, cheating was really rife at my school. So we had people like baking them, steeping them in vinegar, painting them with nail varnish or clear nail varnish.

Lisa Sykes (11:42):

I got to say I had this vision of a bright baby pink conquer.

Jo Tinsley (11:46):

Yeah, you wouldn't get away with that. But what was cool about the feature was that it was all about the technique of it. So one of these things, which is something I used to do as well, is choose your weapon wisely. So you've got to choose a winner. So you've got to get a conquer that's deep brown and glossy with no obvious weaknesses to it.

Lisa Sykes (12:01):

Yeah, that sounds sensible, doesn't it? Yeah.

Jo Tinsley (12:03):

And you might think that heft is good, but bigger isn't always better because it makes it a bigger target to hit.

Lisa Sykes (12:08):

Oh, yes.

Jo Tinsley (12:09):

And one thing you can do to check for its inner weaknesses is just pop it in water. Because what you're after is a sinker. You want something that's not got any

Lisa Sykes (12:16):

Right. Just heavy.

Jo Tinsley (12:17):

Yeah. Well also not got any kind of rot or anything inside it.

Lisa Sykes (12:20):

Oh yeah. And which part's the

Jo Tinsley (12:21):

Hardest? So the hardest part is the pale part.

Lisa Sykes (12:24):

So you should aim at the brown part, then

Jo Tinsley (12:26):

Aim at the brown. But there's different techniques. So if you go for sideswipes, it's actually better than hitting it from the top because then you can damage your own conquer.

Lisa Sykes (12:32):

Well, my problem is hitting myself with the thing and missing the conquer entirely.

Jo Tinsley (12:37):

Yeah, exactly. You always end up with bruise knuckles, which I think is why I get the impression that kids don't play conquerors as much anymore. And we were talking about this before, and you were saying it might be because of screen time and things like that, but I think it's also because of health and safety. Yeah,

Lisa Sykes (12:51):

No, I'm sure it is. I love the advice from the World Conquer Championships, which is held in, you get allocated a random conquer there, so there's no chance of cheating. But also they talk about the important things to keep warm and stay hydrated as with any other sport, just like any other sport. I love that. I wonder if kids do still play with con. They

Jo Tinsley (13:14):

Must do. They must do.

Lisa Sykes (13:15):

But there's always a toy craze, isn't there? Obviously elastics were a big thing. When I was at school, it was like skipping. You have it at start at the ankle height when you move up to knee height and move up to thigh height. And now we haven't practised this, but we're going to have a go at one of the clapping games that we used to play at school. Is that right? You said you'd been teaching at your daughter and she knows all the moves, right?

Jo Tinsley (13:37):

Well, she's getting there. Always descends into some kind of slapping contest after a while, but yeah, because struggling to find one because a lot of them aren't O PC anymore. No, but we found a good one.

Lisa Sykes (13:47):

Okay. Right. We're going to give this a go and we're going to start slowly and hopefully speed up right here. Ready, Joe?

Jo Tinsley (13:52):

And obviously we're not in the same place. We're going to be doing this on the table.

Lisa Sykes (13:54):

No. So we're watching on screen and we're going to be banging on the table rather than clapping each other's hands. Right. Say hello, went to CCC to see

Jo Tinsley (14:07):

What he could see. See, we're going to speed up.

Lisa Sykes (14:12):

But all that that he could see was the bottom of the blue. See, C, C, C, C, I don't think we can handle anymore. We didn't get that speedy, did we? Actually, it's quite hard. I think it's easier when you are doing it clapping to someone because we're kind of queuing from each other. And it meant we both slowed down, didn't we? Yeah, no, I think we possibly should have practised that. But anyway, we'll put the full lyrics of the sailor went to C, C, C in the show notes so people can have a go themselves. But games and sports. I mean, I used to live a lot about school. I used to play netball, but I only really made the school team when someone else was ill. I was definitely enthusiastic rather than talented.

Jo Tinsley (14:56):

You were on the bench?

Lisa Sykes (14:57):

Yeah. Yeah. How about you?

Jo Tinsley (14:58):

I was one of the only two girls in my school who played football. Oh really? Which I really enjoyed. I actually got scouted for the Lanker girls team. Whoa. But then I broke my leg, which halted my promising football career to think I would've made it. But yeah, I played netball as well. And at uni I played ultimate Frisbee.

Lisa Sykes (15:14):

What makes it ultimate?

Jo Tinsley (15:15):

Well,

Lisa Sykes (15:16):

Is it not just Frisbee?

Jo Tinsley (15:17):

Yeah, it is, but it's a kind of cross between netball and American football. So once you have the Frisbee, light netball, you can't move. You have to kind of pivot and then pass it to someone. So you have to stay still once you've got it. Oh, okay. And then to score a point, you have to catch it in the end zone, like American football. Wow. You just have to catch it in

Lisa Sykes (15:34):

That. It sounds quite technical.

Jo Tinsley (15:35):

Yeah, no, it was. But yeah, the best part was when you karate chop it out of the air to tackle people basically to get it back on your chain.

Lisa Sykes (15:43):

I'd just like to say Joe was demonstrating this and they'd just tackled their microphone. So if there was a funny sound, then I just saw it go flying across the screen. You're right there, Joe.

Jo Tinsley (15:52):

Yeah, no, I'm fine. I'm fine. Yeah, so then you'd kind of tackle it out of the ground, but that would get a really good response from the crowd

Lisa Sykes (15:58):

I bet.

Jo Tinsley (15:58):

And that was always the best part.

Lisa Sykes (15:59):

I bet. And of course, yeah. There must have been some games afterwards in the bar as well. I'm sure

Jo Tinsley (16:05):

It was all about the social. That's really the main reason I was there, because a championship size disc holds three points.

Lisa Sykes (16:11):

Oh no.

Jo Tinsley (16:13):

But with so much water tension. So literally you touch it and it will go all over. So you fill up a Frisbee with three points of beer, and then you have two straws with you in the opposite team. And then you had to down it before it went all over the table. And yet to do

Lisa Sykes (16:25):

That, I swear, anything can be turned into a drinking game by students. I've currently got three student daughters, and I don't think anything's changed since I was there. We used to play hungover mixed hockey.

Jo Tinsley (16:36):

Oh God.

Lisa Sykes (16:36):

Which was extremely competitive and the girls were the most competitive. And also five aside. But there's something really sociable about getting up hung over on a Sunday morning and playing sports.

Jo Tinsley (16:48):

Yeah, yeah. I've been thinking about this recently. I really want to start playing badminton again. I didn't do that at school. I really got into it in my twenties. I like healthy ways to get out my competitive nature.

Lisa Sykes (16:57):

Yes.

Jo Tinsley (16:58):

So yeah, I used to get really competitive and there was this woman, I was in a club and there was this woman who had this killer drop shop, which she used far too much. And she kind of became my nemesis and it was like something to train for. And then one day I'd started returning them. The look of panic on her face. She was a better player than me, but I beat her once. And oh my gosh, I was so chuffed. I was so happy.

Lisa Sykes (17:22):

Yeah, that's the thing. You remember those small successes that seemed massive at the time. Yeah, because the thing is school sports out for every one of the, some people just have horrific memories of school sports. But I do miss competitiveness. I mean board games that can get quite competitive in our

Jo Tinsley (17:38):

House. Oh, card games. Card games can get

Lisa Sykes (17:40):

Card games. Yeah. No, my granddad taught, well, both my granddads taught me lots of card games when I was young, and I don't play them as much now. Need to get more into that.

Jo Tinsley (17:50):

I played them a lot when I was travelling when I was younger, because all you need is to travel with a pack of cards.

Lisa Sykes (17:54):

Totally. Yeah.

Jo Tinsley (17:55):

That's kind of, you don't really need anything else to get to know people. I wonder if people still do that. I dunno.

Lisa Sykes (18:00):

You can play even with people that barely speak the same language as long as you've got the same rules. Yeah, no, there's always a little bit of discussion about the rules, isn't there? But I've always wanted to learn to play bridge though. Can you play

Jo Tinsley (18:11):

Me too. Me too. Yeah. I played it with my family when I was younger and it's not actually that hard I don't think. It's not as hard as people say. Really? Yeah. Anyone that I've tried to bring in to play Bridge, not interested.

Lisa Sykes (18:22):

Yeah, no, I've quite like that. But I've always thought it's kind of a thing for old people. But now maybe I am actually the age group, but

Jo Tinsley (18:29):

I think we've reached that age

Lisa Sykes (18:32):

That is in fact bridge playing. Yeah, no, I like the idea. My sister does a weekly poker thing and

Jo Tinsley (18:37):

Yeah, I'd like to play poker.

Lisa Sykes (18:38):

She really likes that. I like darts, but I really can't do the maths quick enough. And it gets me really stressed.

Jo Tinsley (18:44):

I'm the same. I love darts. I used to play darts a lot when I lived in Bristol, but I never used to do the proper darts. I used to play killer all around the clock.

Lisa Sykes (18:50):

But

Jo Tinsley (18:50):

Yeah, just having something to do in a pub other than the sort of sat opposite people chatting is just, it's really nice.

Lisa Sykes (18:56):

No, it's interesting because we just went away from my mum's 80th birthday for a long weekend for the whole family. So there were a mixture of teenagers and middle-aged people and old people, and there was a pool table there. And it was the success of the whole trip because it got really competitive. Winner stays on.

Jo Tinsley (19:11):

I love pool

Lisa Sykes (19:12):

And everybody got really into it. And it's such a kind of multi-generational thing. You don't have to be fit to play it. And it was good. It was just

Jo Tinsley (19:21):

Fun. And you always get those hustlers, don't you? It's like you didn't know they've got a misspent youth and they're actually really good.

Lisa Sykes (19:25):

My mom turned out to be quite a hustler, I have to say. Oh really? The 8-year-old. Yeah. We have no idea. Anyway, it's time for our read aloud Tea Break Now. And if you've listened to earlier seasons of small waste to live well, you'll know we usually read a short story. We commission one in every issue of the simple things. But we also ask readers to send us in their own stories about their belongings for our What I Treasure feature. So this season we're going to share some of their heartwarming recollections of things that mean a lot to them. And in honour of Back to School, Joe, I'm going to read one about satchels. Nice satchels by Laura Brown. The merest nip of autumn in the air is enough to trigger my most predictable Pavlovian response, dusting off my faithful old satchel for another season of filling it with books and assorted temptations found on the forest floor.

(20:26):

Hearing that satisfying creek of leather is like cracking my knuckles before getting stuck into an exciting project. My satchel is the sartorial equivalent of starting a new school term. Much I adore a boit all in bag. The structured sturdiness of a satchel brings order to my portable life that by this time of year is often long overdue. This seasonal reorganisation has a knock-on effect on my mind, carefully arranging an unblemished notebook, my favourite pens, and a neatly wrapped sandwiched in its depths, putting everything in its place in a game of Satchel Tetris adds to that autumnal feeling of renewed purpose. Satchels have a scholarly history, of course, so it's little wonder they've long been regarded as the quintessential British schoolbag. Despite having been usurped by backpacks for the past few decades, mediaeval monks use them to carry and store religious manuscripts and cast your mind backs to your own school days.

(21:24):

A young satchel carrying pupil is one part in Shakespeare's seven ages of man poem among adults. They're now stylish shorthand for preppy studiousness. Strong leather oil cloth or canvas combined with spacious compartments. Make a satchel the ideal luger of books. Sometimes too many books. If I were to ask my left shoulder as I we my way home from the library, every overgrown school girl needs some playtime. So my satchel has also been a countryside companion over the years. With its practical cross body strap and secure buckles. It lends itself to outdoor pursuits with standing or manner of mud spatters. Along the way, it gets mercilessly flung about. While I'm indulging in my favourite seasonal activities, namely wondering if I can climb that big tree, a renewed passion for squirrel spotting and endless peering into puddles. By the time winter rolls around, the bottom of my bag will be littered with conquers and cones. The yellow leather now more than a decade old, will look as cheerful as ever. Scuffs and scratches only adding to its charm. Eventually the warmer months come back and I'll return to softer styles. But come autumn, however, the crunch of leaves and the whiff of wood smoke will summon me like a school bell to my trusty satchel.

Jo Tinsley (22:49):

Oh, that was nice. I've had some really lovely satchels in my time. I remember once at school my parents refused to spend extra on labels and brands. I was like the Fruit of the Loom kid, and I managed to persuade them once to get me a kicker satchel for

Lisa Sykes (23:03):

School.

Jo Tinsley (23:04):

I wore that out.

Lisa Sykes (23:06):

I bet.

Jo Tinsley (23:07):

It was just like my one branded thing that I'd kind of wore really proudly because kickers was quite big in the nineties or eighties probably.

Lisa Sykes (23:14):

Oh, I feel like we could talk about school day memories, the whole episode, but as this is the beginning episode, maybe we should talk about things that we are going to start doing in this season of energy. So life skills, if you're not going back to school, maybe it's time to learn a new life skill. What would you want to learn, Joe?

Jo Tinsley (23:31):

I was always tempted to learn a new language. So I've got fairly good French. I did French to the first year of a degree before I dropped it after the first year.

Lisa Sykes (23:41):

That sounds more than fairly good French.

Jo Tinsley (23:43):

I know, but I was never speaking it. So I've got good written and reading French. I could write, read a novel in French, but then when I go there I kind of struggle to have the confidence to speak it very well.

Lisa Sykes (23:54):

See, I'm exactly the opposite from that. I just turn it with a phrase book and go and try and make myself understood and make a complete fool of myself. But I'm hopeless at languages. I mean, if there are two ways to pronounce a word, I always pick the wrong one. I mean,

Jo Tinsley (24:09):

I bet they think you are charming.

Lisa Sykes (24:11):

Well, I'll tell you what is really nice is that kids around the world, I used to travel a lot, and kids around the world love it if you get words wrong and then their parents like you for making their kids laugh. So actually, if you're prepared to look a bit foolish, I think it does get you a long way. But what language would you learn then if you could?

Jo Tinsley (24:29):

You know what? I would really like to learn Portuguese. And I think it's a really beautiful language. And I think sometimes it's interesting because when you're like, oh, with the effort of learning a language, you think, oh, I should choose one that's Spanish human, Mandarin Chinese, or something like this. Because lots of people speak it. But I dunno, I've always fallen for the landscapes of Portuguese speaking places. So Portugal obviously, but I also went to South Tome and Oppe on an amazing trip for Lonely Planet once.

Lisa Sykes (24:54):

Oh wow.

Jo Tinsley (24:54):

These little islands off the west and coast of Central Africa. Oh gosh. The way they speak Portuguese. So

Lisa Sykes (25:00):

It's like a Creole, is it?

Jo Tinsley (25:01):

Yeah. Yeah. It's so beautiful. And I've always wanted to go to the Zos, which eats Portuguese as well.

Lisa Sykes (25:06):

Well, I travelled in Brazil in my twenties

(25:09):

And the same thing. I vowed not to go back until I could speak some Portuguese. I fell in love with the place, but actually it would've been so much better if I could have spoken a bit more than a few words from my phrase book. But the language I'd really love to learn is Italian. I love the drama of it. It's such an exuberant language. You can really throw yourself into it, can't you? But yeah, no, there's something about wouldn't it be cool to learn a really hyperlocal language though? So you've got a purpose for learning it, thinking about it. Because one of my really good friends, her son, as part of his botany degree is in Swei this year. And he's cataloguing orchids, but he's in such a small place. And in lots of parts of Indonesia, there are many languages spoken. So he spent several months before he went there learning the language specific to where he was living. Gosh,

Jo Tinsley (25:57):

I bet they love him.

Lisa Sykes (25:58):

And they absolutely love him for it. And that feels like you're learning it with a real purpose, doesn't it?

Jo Tinsley (26:04):

Yeah. Did you ever read Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy?

Lisa Sykes (26:07):

Yes.

Jo Tinsley (26:07):

Yeah. Obviously,

Lisa Sykes (26:08):

I dunno where you're going with this.

Jo Tinsley (26:10):

They had this thing called the Babelfish. Okay. And I'm not sure, but it always stuck with me. It's a creature that you put into your ear and it helps you speak and learn and understand any language. And even at the time I think about this quite a bit, how cool would that be?

Lisa Sykes (26:24):

Yeah. If you had EarPods now that could do that, that would be what an amazing invention.

Jo Tinsley (26:29):

Yeah. Probably exist. I mean, you've got these apps that can translate a menu.

Lisa Sykes (26:34):

It

Jo Tinsley (26:34):

Either exists or it's going to.

Lisa Sykes (26:35):

No, you're right. You could probably set it up. So it did it instantaneously. And the other thing I know you did, which really surprised me because I know you are into swimming, but you only learn to swim as an adult, right?

Jo Tinsley (26:46):

Yeah. So I mean, I learned to swim as a child, but then I could only faff around doing breaststroke. But I relearnt to swim as an adult about eight years ago.

Lisa Sykes (26:55):

What made you suddenly start doing it then? I

Jo Tinsley (26:57):

Think I just like being in waters. So I was still doing, I'd started doing open water events, really fun swims like swimming from a pier to a pub or something sort of interesting like that. But I was still doing it breaststroke. And I was like, I kept failing these swims.

Lisa Sykes (27:13):

Oh, well, because you'd just run out of energy.

Jo Tinsley (27:14):

We were just slow. So then I say, me and my friend were doing it, and the tide would turn because we'd be slow or the current would pick up. We were slow. And I just like, I need to actually learn to do some front crawl here. So I went to this port to peer programme in Brighton to do it, and I could only do half a length of front crawl before I got out of breath and had to stop. Wow. So that's what I started with eight years ago.

Lisa Sykes (27:34):

Yeah. Yeah. I'm the same. I get really just tense in the water and then can't do it very well.

Jo Tinsley (27:40):

It's so good. Now it's my thing. This is my thing that I do.

Lisa Sykes (27:43):

Yeah.

Jo Tinsley (27:44):

I'm still being taught now. I still go to a coach session on a Thursday night. But last night we were learning backstroke. Cause I've never been taught backstroke as an adult either. And at the windmill arms kind of stage, I'm at early stage. But my coach was like, that's good. But yeah, it's such a confidence building thing to do.

Lisa Sykes (28:02):

That's really interesting. I can't do crawl either. And I did do a one-off session, like a whole day thing with a small group. And it was teaching like Alexander techniques, so a very precise swimming movement. And I have a video that I keep on my laptop that occasionally I look at, and it's a video of me swimming one length of a pool, doing the most beautiful front crawl. Oh, I need to see this. But then what happened is the week after I thought, right, this is it. Now I've got this. And I went to the pool and I couldn't do it. I couldn't do it. I just couldn't replicate that same stroke. And then I was so disheartened, I just let it slide. Obviously you have to practise, don't you?

Jo Tinsley (28:40):

Yeah. It's like a long-term thing. So even when we are learning stuff now, and you've got to think even Olympic swimmers are being coached. Do you know what I mean? You never have stopped having to be taught things. But we will focus on one thing at a time because even sometimes we might have to do two or three things at a time. And everyone is struggling at that point.

Lisa Sykes (28:58):

And I was obviously trying to do everything all at once. Yeah,

Jo Tinsley (29:01):

You don't do everything. So literally you might break it down to one tiny part of your catch and then you focus on that for an hour. Interesting. And then the next time you keep that and then you focus on something else.

Lisa Sykes (29:09):

I think there's a lesson there isn't there, about breaking down a new habit into its component parts. Now I'm doing a bit of dog training that I've signed up to these videos and they're great actually. But they do take it very in increment, and you don't have to kind of pass one bit to move on to the next bit and actually breaking things down. You suddenly see where you're going. And my dog's really responding, which is great. That's nice. But yes. So another thing, new habits, we mentioned habits and it being a habit forming time. So signing up for a veg box. This is a good time of year to do that, isn't

Jo Tinsley (29:40):

It? They're colourful at this time of year, aren't they?

Lisa Sykes (29:42):

Yeah. I mean they've got things that you'll have never heard of in there.

Jo Tinsley (29:46):

I'm always Googling it. What is this?

Lisa Sykes (29:48):

Yeah, we've got a blog all about weird veg box veg and what to do with them. And I'll make sure the link's on there. But Cole Robbie for example.

Jo Tinsley (29:56):

Yeah, that always gets me.

Lisa Sykes (29:58):

But it makes a fantastic slaw. So that's a really good one. You can use CAC as a pasta replacement, turn it into ribbons with a cheesy sauce. Okay. Didn't know that. And a padron peppers, they're really good. I've forgotten, actually, I've just written padron peppers down. I can't remember how you put those, but it'll be in the vlogs. And have you ever eaten? Oka?

Jo Tinsley (30:17):

Are they like the ladies fingers? The root? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I had them in India. Yeah,

Lisa Sykes (30:20):

You can actually eat them raw, unlike potatoes, but they kind of make a really good nutty addition to salads, apparently. Nice. But we did a series on veg box slippers, and we kind of had a bit of a nose to tail approach in them. So things like, I bet you've never eaten cauliflower leaves, have you?

Jo Tinsley (30:36):

Yeah, I have. Yeah, I do have you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because I always bake them. So put some olive oil on them and then slow bake them and they almost make a seaweed kind of crispy sort of. Yes. No, I do that all the time.

Lisa Sykes (30:48):

Well, for me, that was a new idea and she recommended, this is Rachel Deta who does all our home economic series, and she's got such an amazing knowledge of food. She comes up with brilliant recipes, but they're all very simple. They're just clever. And it's a stir fried noble butter, a bit of chopped garlic and a pinch of chilli flakes with cauliflower leaves.

Jo Tinsley (31:05):

Nice.

Lisa Sykes (31:06):

But she's also got a golden marrow marmalade and what she calls Morocco lily, which is a sort of spice market spin on pic lily, basically.

Jo Tinsley (31:15):

Oh, nice.

Lisa Sykes (31:16):

And if you want something a bit more silly, I'm not sure this would be a habit, but it's certainly something you could do with your veg box. How about knit pan pipes? Yeah, I thought you might say that there was this set of cards published by Lawrence King that we ran a series from, and it was veg box music that's so niche. So they're called musical experiments for after dinner. And this is actually some pipes that you could make tune with made out of parsnips.

Jo Tinsley (31:43):

If anyone does this, please post a picture.

Lisa Sykes (31:46):

But I mean, new hobbies are a part of that whole taking on habits and life skills, isn't it? But we've got a campaign, and this is our new issue, Joan, I'm not sure whether you've seen it yet, so I'll talk a little bit about it. But we're celebrating Slapdash, we're encouraging everyone to experiment with Slapdash. And I guess you understand what I mean by that, right?

Jo Tinsley (32:04):

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Lisa Sykes (32:05):

It's imperfection, not fixating on being perfect, which as regular readers and listeners will know, the word perfect is completely banned in the simple things. The idea is it's there's good enough mentality because it's actually very hard to do that if you want a slower, more fulfilled life, if you're surrounded by flawlessness. So it's okay if your cakes are wonky or your makes are wobbly. You've had to go,

Jo Tinsley (32:27):

It sounds like my kind of thing.

Lisa Sykes (32:29):

I know. And we thought after a decade of advocating the simple things, we figured it was time to speak out for good enough and for proudly homemade. So we came up with a bit of a manifesto. So I'm taught you through the general principles, right? See if you can get involved with this.

Jo Tinsley (32:44):

Okay, let's hear it. Yeah.

Lisa Sykes (32:45):

So practise is the first thing. Dabble, have a go, just dabble, doesn't matter. And every expert was once a beginner. And you've got to embrace that to staff. Be pragmatic, which is about enjoying the journey. It's the doing it that counts and find perspective. This is the hardest one for most of us, I think, but because everybody actually loves a trier. It is only you that are your own worst critic, right?

Jo Tinsley (33:11):

It's true.

Lisa Sykes (33:12):

And everybody else thinks it's great, you're having a go. So you've got to kind of find that perspective to do it. I think learn to play, that's the other one, which is about relishing it, enjoying it, and making your own rules, isn't it? There's no right way to do things. And the last one is pause. And this is obviously our heartland one. Stop for cake. Go slow. We're calling it no dash slap dash. It's the idea that you do it at your own pace. So I think they're good principles. I like

Jo Tinsley (33:37):

That. I like that a lot.

Lisa Sykes (33:38):

We like our manifesto. There's a whole article about this in the September issue, which is on sale now. I just give it a little plug and immediate start subscription. We'll see you get it straight away. And if you do subscribe, starting with September, October or November issue, you're going to be sent a free patch. We're giving to subscribers with our November issue, which is all about standing for Slapdash.

Jo Tinsley (33:58):

Like a fabric patch.

Lisa Sykes (33:59):

Yeah, a proper woven patch. We've also in the middle of creating four proudly homemade slapdash patches that will be selling from October. I'm not going to tell you about those yet. You have to watch on social media for the big reveal.

Jo Tinsley (34:12):

Nice.

Lisa Sykes (34:13):

But we're hoping people will stitch them very haphazardly onto something. That would be the idea.

Jo Tinsley (34:17):

Yeah. Not too neatly. No.

Lisa Sykes (34:19):

So what does

Jo Tinsley (34:19):

Slapdash look like for you then? Well, I find this really interesting because in our careers as editors slapdash, it's like the opposite of what we do. Do you know what I mean? Yes. Everything has to be correct. How you make the magazine, how I make magazines is we're not going to let anything go unless it's correct.

Lisa Sykes (34:35):

No. Can I just say right, that when we were preparing for this, Joe didn't like the fact that I'd sent her some words for Darius bits that we were going to talk about, and she didn't like the fact that they were not on the same font. That's how perfectionist we are.

Jo Tinsley (34:48):

That was my first thing, was to change the font to an appropriate font.

Lisa Sykes (34:52):

Yeah, exactly. But the thing is, there's a deep irony, isn't it, that in producing the simple things is so far from slapdash, but there are different areas of your life like relationships.

Jo Tinsley (35:02):

But everything else I do is I'm happy Slapdash are cooking crafts, gardening,

Lisa Sykes (35:06):

Yes,

Jo Tinsley (35:07):

All fine.

Lisa Sykes (35:08):

But the thing is, parenting and finance and relationships, I think they deserve a bit more than slapdash, don't they? But there are loads of things you can do in a slapdash way and have fun.

Jo Tinsley (35:17):

I think sewing is one of the ones that I find most difficult to do, and having kids helps with this. So yeah, when Ayla wants me to make a dress for her doll, it's like I'm trying so hard to make it good.

Lisa Sykes (35:29):

Make it good enough to wear.

Jo Tinsley (35:31):

Yeah. But she's impatient and she wants to join in.

Lisa Sykes (35:33):

Yeah,

Jo Tinsley (35:34):

It's great, isn't it? But I used to get really stressed about it and try and make it really nice. And now I'm just using washy tape to make boob tubes for dolls because I'm like, we can do this together, and they look great.

Lisa Sykes (35:45):

Yeah. Yeah. I think that's really good. I also have a slapdash approach to sewing, and I am trying to get better at sewing, but I've stopped criticising myself for when it's not neat. The compliment I will never get is That's beautiful stitching. And I'm also a ramshackle gardener as well.

Jo Tinsley (36:02):

Oh yeah, likewise.

Lisa Sykes (36:03):

But it's a reminder, isn't it? And that's what we're really trying to do with this campaign, is to remind people that it's better to do it rather than scrolling through sort of insta perfection or worrying about what friends think of your house rather than just getting them round.

Jo Tinsley (36:16):

Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's true. It kind of goes into other parts of your life, doesn't it?

Lisa Sykes (36:19):

Yeah, I think so. So we're embracing slapdash, and we're going to do that all the way through this season. I think it's good to start a new habit of slapdash, but I like new school shoes and still by myself, new shoes at this time of year.

Jo Tinsley (36:31):

Dude, Beck was saying this when we met up to talk about the season. She was saying that she always gets a new pair of boots every September.

Lisa Sykes (36:37):

I definitely always go shoe shopping at this time of year. And sometimes it's not about just changing your shoes though. Sometimes it's just changing what you wear or your day-to-day staples, isn't it?

Jo Tinsley (36:48):

But changing your shoes will do that. So I mean, for me, it's just a simple switch from converse to dms.

Lisa Sykes (36:54):

That's easy. Slap dash

Jo Tinsley (36:57):

Easy, and I don't even have to buy new ones. But yeah, it changes then how you dress like the rest of your outfit, doesn't it? So it's kind of a prompt to do that.

Lisa Sykes (37:03):

Definitely. But the other tradition, of course, when with school was when you've got deemed old enough to have a watch.

Jo Tinsley (37:09):

Yeah,

Lisa Sykes (37:09):

Yeah. Not a smart watch, obviously.

Jo Tinsley (37:11):

No.

Lisa Sykes (37:12):

And actually Francis' deputy editor has written a really good piece in our September issue about the joy of home one. And for her, the reason she started wearing a watch again, she'd stopped was she's just not tempted to pick up her phone and start scrolling just because she wants to know the time. And of course, they've become really prized again, watches, aren't they? They're a bit blokey, a bit flashy. But actually, did you know that women were the first wearers of watches? No way. Napoleon's sister apparently. Presumably. That was quite a flashy one

Jo Tinsley (37:38):

Of wrist

Lisa Sykes (37:39):

Watchers. Yeah, wrist watchers, yes. Because men had pocket watches.

Jo Tinsley (37:42):

Had the pocket watches, yeah.

Lisa Sykes (37:43):

I dunno why I'm demonstrating to you a pocket watch. Well, we're doing this on the podcast, but anyway. And Napoleon's sister had one in 1810, apparently. But the other positive, of course, is you can get them repaired on any high street, can't you?

Jo Tinsley (37:54):

That's true. That's true. I've got to watch, but I don't wear it because it starts too many conversations really. When I first launched Ernest, which was my independent

Lisa Sykes (38:01):

Magazine, we are still selling back issues of ernest@thepsoninc.com. Are

Jo Tinsley (38:05):

You? That's good, because I'm not, so if anyone wants a copy of Ernest.

Lisa Sykes (38:09):

Yeah, I'll just give that a little mention. Yeah, no, very good magazine.

Jo Tinsley (38:11):

Yeah, that's good. Yeah. So I got sent because my website was Slow Joe, slow journalism, slow Jo.

Lisa Sykes (38:19):

Oh yeah.

Jo Tinsley (38:20):

And there was this new watchmaker that had just launched and they'd launched this slow Joe watch, and they sent one to me like, Hey, you say Joe, you to have one of these watches, which is great. And it is a 24 hour watch.

Lisa Sykes (38:30):

Oh yeah.

Jo Tinsley (38:30):

Yeah. So it starts at zero and it has one hand and it goes round to 24, and it's really small, so you can't really tell the time very well on it. It's to kind of change your perspective on time. So you count the moments, not the minutes, really. I love it. I'm very grateful for this watch. I

Lisa Sykes (38:48):

Can't decide whether that's a bit enough or actually very clever.

Jo Tinsley (38:52):

I know. I love it. And it's a beautiful watch. It's really soft leather and it's really nice, but I can't keep having that conversation with people.

Lisa Sykes (39:00):

You kind of have to get your head around it, don't you really? But I suppose because it's slowly going round, it makes you slow down. I don't

Jo Tinsley (39:09):

Know. No, it's a really nice thing. It makes you slow down and it makes you kind of be like, oh, it's a roundabout this time. Or to section your day up into like, well, I'll do a quarter of my day like this. I dunno. It changes how you think things. It's a really good idea.

Lisa Sykes (39:21):

Yeah.

Jo Tinsley (39:21):

I'm very grateful for the watch. It's, it's an interesting thing. The

Lisa Sykes (39:25):

Other thing, of course, that kids get this is the backpacks. They always have a massive back, but the smaller the child, the bigger the backpack going to school, isn't it?

Jo Tinsley (39:33):

Yeah. Yeah. It's true.

Lisa Sykes (39:34):

I know you're a big fan of a backpack. You,

Jo Tinsley (39:36):

I'm a really big fan of a backpack, and Francis wrote this, Francis on the magazine wrote this really lovely wearing, well featured, didn't she? About the romanticism of it. Sort of like they have so many memories to them. Our backpack,

Lisa Sykes (39:47):

Yes.

Jo Tinsley (39:47):

Backpacking trips, throwing it into the back of a friend's car for a festival or sitting on it in a far away sort of place with mine. I remember when I first went backpacking when I was 18, and there was four of us, we set off across from Europe to Morocco. We all had these massive 65 litre backpacks.

Lisa Sykes (40:02):

Wow. Big adventure.

Jo Tinsley (40:03):

Yeah. Yeah. It was really good. We flew to Paris and we took the steps down to the underground and literally, this was our first act of travellers was to get on the Paris Metro. And it was rammed. My friend Gemma pushed away to get onto the metro and the doors closed on her massive backpack, and she got stuck and we were all pushing and the prisons were all pulling. And eventually she popped in. Yeah, she popped in, turned around, put our hands on the glass and just shot off into Paris without the rest of us. And this was like 2001, so we didn't have any phones. And I just remember the three of us just laughing so hard, we fell onto platform, couldn't get up because our backpacks were so heavy and we were little upside down turtles. So yeah, that's what my backpacks really, God,

Lisa Sykes (40:45):

I just think your backpacks carry so many memories. They, A really poignant thing happened this summer because I had a backpack when I was a travel writer in my twenties and thirties. So I went to a lot of places and it went everywhere with me. And then it kind of sat in the loft, like a rejecting toy story. It was abandoned and didn't really go anywhere. But my daughter went on her first backpacking trip this summer, and she went to Thailand and she used my backpack.

Jo Tinsley (41:11):

Did she? That's so nice.

Lisa Sykes (41:13):

She got it out of the loft. She cleaned all the dust off, she washed it all down. And it's now poignant because this backpack's got a new generation of life and she's really pleased with it. She likes it.

Jo Tinsley (41:23):

That's

Lisa Sykes (41:23):

Pretty nice. I'm not a fan of a pull along. I think you've always got to be able to carry your own bags.

Jo Tinsley (41:27):

I agree. I agree.

Lisa Sykes (41:28):

And the bags carry memories for sure. They do. Anyway, look, we keep drifting off into nostalgia rather than beginning. But let's talk about beginning in terms of reading the Tubby Read list. Why do we find that hard to actually get through?

Jo Tinsley (41:42):

Yeah. Well, I've got back into reading after 20 years. I've read nonfiction for work and stuff during that time, and I've read the odd book. But I mean that reading where you're like, can't wait to read the next chapter of your book. There's books next to your bed, that kind of reading. I've read 40 books in the last 10 months or something. But yeah, there is this real difference between your TBR list, which for me is just a list on my phone. Oh yeah. The TBR pile, which is the pile of books next to your bed, and then the book that you've just been recommended or that you've just pops off on an Instagram and then pop. That's the next thing that you read. So there's a real sort of

Lisa Sykes (42:11):

Hierarchy. Totally. Because the thing is, the pile is the one that's hardest isn't it sits there just with a coffee cup kind of dodgy balanced on it or whatever, and you just don't get through it, do you? But you're right, if someone recommends a new book and there's that sweet spot, isn't there between something not being over overhyped and recommended absolutely everywhere, then you think, oh, I don't want to read that. But yes, I like a trilogy. I like finding a trilogy because I know I've got two more books to read if I'm into it. So that's quite nice because your next book is then sorted, isn't it?

Jo Tinsley (42:40):

And this is the thing, because I'm into fantasy books, they're often quite long series. I really like a Duology or duet, which two books, I feel like that's just the right size. But also, I mean, I love getting into a six to eight book kind of series. We become so

Lisa Sykes (42:53):

Committed

Jo Tinsley (42:54):

That it's then okay for them to slow the pace down. I read one recently where the FMC female main character spends half a book in a cave just growing as a person.

Lisa Sykes (43:06):

But you're not selling that one to me, I'm afraid.

Jo Tinsley (43:08):

Oh no. I mean, it's so good.

Lisa Sykes (43:09):

But then there's the idea of trying to read all the books by a certain author. I got Christie, or I've been reading a lot of Georgette Hayes and things like that. So they're good as well, aren't they? But well, those books that are instantly recommended to you, that must be to do with the dopamine things' it,

Jo Tinsley (43:23):

Yeah. Or just what you're in the mood for it

Lisa Sykes (43:25):

Leapfrogs everything. Yeah. But we've been talking about rereading a bit as well, which again, it seems counter to our begin episode, but I think beginning a book that you've already read is actually sometimes easier, isn't it? Although weirdly, I've tried to read a few books that really affected me or strayed with me the first time that were really impactful, and actually they weren't as impactful the second time I read them.

Jo Tinsley (43:46):

I feel like they need to be a comforting read rather than an impactful read.

Lisa Sykes (43:50):

I agree. Like a classic or something like The Hobbit from childhood.

Jo Tinsley (43:54):

Yeah, I've reread The Hobbit a few times. For me, it's Jane Eyre. It's like the comfort of, say, watching the BBC Pride and Prejudice or something like that. Or friends reruns or something like that.

Lisa Sykes (44:02):

Yeah, exactly.

Jo Tinsley (44:03):

It's that comfort. It's like, this isn't going to surprise me anymore.

Lisa Sykes (44:06):

No,

Jo Tinsley (44:06):

And the characters inside out.

Lisa Sykes (44:08):

But you do notice new things, don't you? I think the more you read it. Interesting. Anyway, we have run out of time. It is a golden hour activity time, which is the thing we're doing in this season where we're setting our intentions like we usually do, but in the golden hour, which is this time of year in this golden days time of year. So mine is going to be relearn some of the card games I loved and rarely play anymore, and I'm going to persuade my partner to learn them too. I've got this vision of us playing cards with a Sun Downer in the early evening.

Jo Tinsley (44:37):

Nice. How about you? I think I'm going to try some kind of taste breaking with my reading. So rather than rereading or

Lisa Sykes (44:44):

Interesting. Yeah,

Jo Tinsley (44:45):

Yeah, yeah. So finding something that is subtly different. So maybe like a dystopian novel or a sci-fi or something like that that takes me away from the romantic. And then obviously come back.

Lisa Sykes (44:53):

I like the phrase taste breaking. I'm going to use that more in conversation. Anyway. Thanks Joe. So with those fine thoughts, we're at the end of this week's begin episode. I hope you enjoyed our back to school vibe and I feel they're a bit more energised for this fleeting Golden Day season. The show notes will have all the details as I've said, and links to things we've mentioned, as well as links to buy shoes and subscriptions to the simple things. Thanks to Jo for co-hosting today. She's going to be back with our wellbeing editor Bes Frank in two weeks where they're going to roam a little, appreciate the balance of light and dark at the autumn equinox.

Jo Tinsley (45:25):

Looking forward to it. Yeah, I'll see you then.

Lisa Sykes (45:27):

Yeah. But before that, Bess and I are going to be back with you next week with an episode we're calling Nest, where we're finding fresh ideas at home and sampling Kama, which is the Norwegian tradition of evening breakfast. So I hope you can join us then, and thanks for listening.