Golden Days - Episode 4 - ROAM

As the autumn equinox tips summer into autumn, Wellbeing Editor Rebecca Frankand regular contributor and author of The Slow Traveller, Jo Tinsley lace up their hiking boots and go exploring. From the joy of early autumn city breaks and solo travel to a walking meditation and games you can play with your dog.

If you are in the UK, you can try an immediate start subscription to the The Simple Things and receive the current issue straight away. Or buy current and back issues here

Editing by Dhylyn Foster. Music by Arthur Cosslett.  

ON THE BLOG

 How to be a fearless traveller

 Songs about dogs

 Days out for You and Your Dog 

 How to trespass with good manners

TO READ

The Book of Trespass: Crossing the Lines that Divide Us, by Nick Hayes

The Slow Traveller by Jo Tinsley

School for Dogs (And Their Humans) by Sophie Collins

IN THE SIMPLE THINGS

 In October issue:

 My Living: The dog walker 

 Wellbeing: Lessons in chemistry – how hormones help

 Miscellany: Give the dog a game

 Buy the October issue at picsandink.com from 18 September and on the newsstand from 24 September.

IN PREVIOUS ISSUES

 Action stations: Hiking between stations or heading to the end of the line (159, Sep 2025)

Dog days out: Around the UK are people and places going the extra mile for dogs (147, Sep 2024)

Natural connection: A rope swing, a cairn and a den, these humble handmade features our landscape may just hold the key to improving our relationship with nature (147, Sep 2024)

Good well hunting: Places for refreshment, healing and worship, wells and springs are magical places (158, Aug 2025)

Buy current and back issues here

LEARN MORE 

The Outdoor Swimming Society | Is it legal?

The Outdoor Swimming Society | Right to Swim

Transcript

Rebecca Frank (00:11):

Hello and welcome to The Small Ways To Live Well podcast from The Simple Things. For those of you who are new to us, we're a monthly magazine and we're all about taking time to live. Well, I'm Rebecca Frank, the wellbeing editor, and this is episode four of our Golden Days season, which is taking us through this beautiful but brief time where summer emerges into autumn. Our September Treasure issue is still on the newsstand to buy or from our website, and the October issue, I believe, will be landing with subscribers anytime now. In fact, if you want to take out a subscription, you can take out an immediate start and get the October issue and save yourself 30% off the cover price. All details of that will be in the show notes and also at thesimplethings.com. So today our theme is Roam, and I'm joined by co-host Joe Tinsley. She's a regular contributor to the Simple Things and author of book The Slow Traveller. Hey Jo, how are you Ready to get your walking boots on or pack a bag?

Jo Tinsley (01:04):

Yeah, I'm always ready to have my hiking boots. I'm looking forward to this episode. I think it's going to be a good

Rebecca Frank (01:09):

One. Yeah, we're going to be talking about outings and adventures, those close to home and going further afield as well on our own, but also in the company of two and four-legged companions I think we're going to be talking about. So we're coming out on the 21st of September. This episode, obviously we're recording it a little bit before that, but is it the autumn equinox today?

Jo Tinsley (01:27):

I thought it was, but I learned that the autumn equinox can actually fall between the 21st and 24th of September. So this year it's actually Monday the 22nd at seven 19 if you want to be precise about it.

Rebecca Frank (01:38):

Oh, okay. Tomorrow them?

Jo Tinsley (01:39):

Yeah, so almost the autumn equinox. Yeah. Yeah. And the Equinox marks the official end of summer and the beginning of autumn. So this is when the sunlight up the Nor and the seven hemisphere equally. So it's the time when you get day and night is briefly

Rebecca Frank (01:52):

Equal. Yes.

Jo Tinsley (01:53):

And it's just really fleeting. You used that word before, a really fleeting moment before the scales tip, and we're going into these sort short days of winter. It is a kind of watershed moment, isn't it?

Rebecca Frank (02:04):

Yeah, it feels like that. It's quite a milestone, isn't it? It's the harvest moon occurring around now as well, isn't it?

Jo Tinsley (02:09):

Yeah, so the harvest moon is the moon that occurs nearest to the autumn equinox, and that's normally in September, but it's actually falling in 6th of October this year. So it's a little while.

Rebecca Frank (02:18):

Right.

Jo Tinsley (02:19):

But yeah, traditionally they use the light of the harvest moon. Farmers used it so that they could work late into the night to bring in the crops from the fields.

Rebecca Frank (02:26):

Okay, yeah.

Jo Tinsley (02:27):

So yeah, it's normally around about that time, but it's actually good to look out for events at this time of year. So you might have harvest moon swims or harvest moon sauna heights and things like that.

Rebecca Frank (02:36):

Yeah.

Jo Tinsley (02:36):

So yeah, there's some interesting things going on

Rebecca Frank (02:38):

There. I went to a harvest moon yoga last year actually. Did you? Yeah, it wasn't just yoga. There was quite a little bit of chat and breathing and we did some gratitude, which was linked to the harvest moon, obviously giving thanks to the harvest around this time of year. But it is nice. I feel like it's quite a pivotal moment in the year, however you think of that. Obviously we're not out gathering Quas, most of us, but it's a good time to reflect and give, I think, isn't it?

Jo Tinsley (02:59):

I think so. And traditionally there are lots of events and rituals around this time. So there's this modern pagan ritual that Markie, autumn Equinox called Mabo. Is it Mabon? I dunno how to pronounce that.

Rebecca Frank (03:10):

I dunno. Yeah, I haven't heard of this one.

Jo Tinsley (03:12):

I looked at the Japanese one I'm going to talk about, but I didn't look at the pagan one. But yeah, that's when people give thanks for plentiful harvest, recognising the need to share the earth's fruits in the coming winter month. Nice. There's that pagan ritual, but like I said, Japanese culture, they've got Egan, which is a time to remember deceased relatives and mark the passing of the seasons. So that officially lasts for seven days and it begins three days prior to the Equinox and ends three days after it. So all around the world people are marking this really pivotable time, what we're saying, they're marking this time.

Rebecca Frank (03:43):

Yeah, that's so interesting and just a good moment to have a little pause I think before we go racing into autumn.

Jo Tinsley (03:49):

Yeah,

Rebecca Frank (03:50):

I think it's also, it's a great time of year to get away as well, isn't it? I know that might feel like, oh, come on, we've just had summer, but maybe not right away, but start to think and plan a little bit.

Jo Tinsley (03:59):

I love going away in September and I think it's only just hitting me. I just dropped my daughter off to school for her first date.

Rebecca Frank (04:04):

Oh, you did?

Jo Tinsley (04:05):

So she's off roaming. She's off roaming, yes. But I'm like, oh, I'd love to go away in September, but I can't now. But yeah, no, originally,

Rebecca Frank (04:12):

Well, perhaps you could have a little day trip or something.

Jo Tinsley (04:15):

A little day trip, but I think September's a great time to go away because he's got these crisp mornings, the warm for the sun, it's quieter time to travel. Sea temperatures are still warm if you like a swim. So yeah, no, I've always enjoyed going on a longer trip, like a road trip or a camper event trip at this time of year.

Rebecca Frank (04:30):

Yeah, me too. I always do try and plan a weekend away in the autumn. I mean, sometimes we've managed to do a bit longer over, like you said, we've been quite tied to school holidays and things, but a weekend away with girlfriends because we're often just so busy and we're all kind of focused on our families over the summer and I find that quite a nice bit of a milestone in the year and we feel that there's a bit more breathing space, but also I've a couple of times been on a retreat at this time of year, obviously I write about wellbeing. I'm fortunate enough to go on retreats from time to time, and I've really enjoyed the ones at this time of year, like you said, it's a beautiful time to be outdoors, but it's also that nice cosy feeling is coming about. So coming back to somewhere that's very peaceful and restful and having a bit of time just to yourself and just to gather yourself before it does get busier towards the end of the year.

Jo Tinsley (05:17):

I feel like you kind of embrace the weather at this time of year as well. You enjoying that cosy feeling because it hasn't been mums of it.

Rebecca Frank (05:24):

Yes. Oh, it's true. My son actually said to me yesterday, I just want it to get really cold now. And I said, do you? But I think it's that kind of in-between. It is like, actually, come on, bring it on. You actually

Jo Tinsley (05:34):

Excited about it. Yeah, we won't be saying this in a few months.

Rebecca Frank (05:37):

No, we have a lot of

Jo Tinsley (05:39):

Cold,

Rebecca Frank (05:39):

But if you do want to actually, if you can manage it, it's a lovely time to go on a city break. I can autum maybe a European city or something like that, isn't it?

Jo Tinsley (05:46):

Yeah, definitely. We have these My cities features, don't we? In the magazine?

Rebecca Frank (05:50):

Yes.

Jo Tinsley (05:51):

Which are always really good. They're like a local insight. So we ask someone who has lived in a city for a long time, maybe have always lived there or maybe they've moved there and they're really in love with their city to give us their personal tour and their highlights about what makes it so special.

Rebecca Frank (06:04):

Yeah, it feels quite different. It feels different from a travel feature because that somebody's really personal account

Jo Tinsley (06:11):

And it means that you can be a bit of an armchair traveller. So even if you're never going to visit, we've had U Trek, Ottawa and Cs, I think it's coming up, so even if you're not planning to visit these places, you can still actually enjoy reading

Rebecca Frank (06:24):

It. Exactly. And like you said, there're probably places U Trek, oh, a great city that sounded like that in our September issue, Ottawa coming out in October, but that's probably going to be armchair travel for most of us at the moment or somewhere to think about the future. But I like how they're not the most obvious places as well sometimes that we do the second city or somewhere that you might not realise it's charms and you're only going to get that really properly from someone who lives there. And I have used it myself.

Jo Tinsley (06:48):

You've used it as a travel inspiration

Rebecca Frank (06:50):

Quite a few times. When I went to Marrakesh this year, I picked up a my city, which was from a while ago, but I used three or four recommendations that were still absolutely spot on. So yeah, it's definitely always worth a flick back.

Jo Tinsley (07:02):

I was just saying. Yeah, well I went to Anne last year on a press trip and then I loved it. Oh, it's

Rebecca Frank (07:08):

So beautiful, isn't

Jo Tinsley (07:09):

It? Anne's in Switzerland, it's so beautiful. And then almost like the day I got there, which I travelled over land by a train and I got there, I'm coming back here. You can't even enjoy it while you're there because you're like, I have to come back here. It's just one of those cities that sort of gets under your skin. But I used my city Anne as well on the second trip because then I was on my own itinerary and I was bringing the family and stuff. But yeah, it's just such a beautiful city. You've got the French Alps kind of looming over one side of the lake. It's La Laman or Lake Geneva and it's this vivid turquoise, which I think is something to do with the plankton in it, but it's like a really sort of turquoise lake and then mountains, even in the middle of summer have got snow. Snow on the top.

Rebecca Frank (07:46):

I was just there myself as well in the summer.

Jo Tinsley (07:48):

Yeah,

Rebecca Frank (07:49):

Not in Lausanne, but in Geneva and then in Anea. So I did two lakes, swam in both and really enjoyed it. And funnily enough, I also used my city to Geneva because Geneva, it's not somewhere that you don't love it as much as Lausanne and the first impressions, it's great, but it's obviously bigger. There's a lot of business there, there's a lot of tourists. It can feel quite hard to find the heart of it. I love though the writer described it as a shy friend that you need to get to know better or something like that. I really felt like because we actually had a couple of days there that was exactly right and probably if I hadn't read that I wouldn't have really given it as much of a chance, but I bet you love the swimming, didn't you? Joe?

Jo Tinsley (08:22):

Swimming is fantastic in Switzerland.

Rebecca Frank (08:24):

Yeah,

Jo Tinsley (08:24):

I think that's it. It's like you think if you're a swimmer, you might want to go on holiday. It's somewhere that's got a coast, but Switzerland is fantastic because where we stayed, which was just, it was actually interlock and we went to Anne and then Interlochen, there's like 16 lidos around the two lakes.

Rebecca Frank (08:37):

Amazing.

Jo Tinsley (08:38):

And some of them in the lakes, some of them next lakes, I think Geneva's got an amazing almost floating lido, hasn't it? I didn't go to new, but they've got incredible swimming pools. They've got baths

Rebecca Frank (08:47):

Down on the lake and in fact, we went to one and it's got a history of being quite a public bathing club rather than a more exclusive one. The band Paki. And it was absolutely brilliant, and we sat there and had fondue and mingled just with the locals. You pay two euros to get in very minimal amount and it's a really cute little cafe. And then everyone's just swimming, jumping in. There's diving boards and

Jo Tinsley (09:06):

Things. I love these places where swimming is so integral to the culture in Iceland or somewhere like that.

Rebecca Frank (09:12):

No, exactly. And it's a good thing if you are, like you said, your first time, you've went on your own, but if you've got something like that to go and do and you are kind of with other people, it kind of makes a trip on your own feel less lonely, I guess, doesn't it?

Jo Tinsley (09:23):

Yeah. How do you feel about sail travel? I

Rebecca Frank (09:25):

Like it actually. I like it more now I think than ever. I think just because I have the contrast and have busy family travel as well, and when I've been on my own, I like to have something to do. It's funny, somebody just wrote a lovely piece, a writer called Lawrence Miller in our August issue and she did the Mino de Santiago pilgrimage walk on her own.

Jo Tinsley (09:46):

Yeah, lots of people do that on their own, don't they? Which is always nice.

Rebecca Frank (09:49):

And also because there's so many people doing it and it's over such a long period of time. It's 900 kilometres something, but there's 33 different sections of it, so you keep seeing the same people. And she actually had friends and family I think come and join her for certain sections of it, but she described how she was kind of an anxious person. Being alone with her thoughts for that long would be something quite daunting for her. But actually she found the opposite. It really helped her to grow in confidence and suddenly she was looking at herself in a completely different way. And I think it does do that for you, don't you?

Jo Tinsley (10:15):

Yeah, definitely. No, I feel really calm and confident and lighter. I think when I'm travelling on my own and I mean I've done it a lot obviously as in my twenties I did solo backpacking trips and stuff, but then lots of press trips in my own press trips are great because it's that balance of having time on your own, but also there's a reason to be there. Like you say, you've got a reason that pushes you to talk to people, but I still get the urge to, I mean, I really get the urge to do it now, but I was thinking the other day, what does solo travel look like to swan in their forties? I'd quite like to take a solo weekend away, but how much solitude do I actually want? I don't particularly want to go to a remote cabin on my own.

Rebecca Frank (10:51):

No. So maybe you'd rather be somewhere where people are around.

Jo Tinsley (10:54):

Yeah, yeah. Because what I'm actually craving is connection with myself, but also with other people. Absolutely. Yeah. I was thinking I'd go somewhere with a community sauna or when you walk along a coast path, but then you stay in a really lively local pub, but you get that sort of

Rebecca Frank (11:06):

Balance. Yes. Where conversations will start naturally with people that you don't know in those circles. I think that's a really good point actually. Sometimes people say being in a city, you don't actually really ever feel alone, do you back to roaming? I walk a lot on my own. Well, I have my dog, so I'm not completely on my own. That's a time that I really enjoy and kind of quite a reflecting time. I think you've got dogs as well, haven't you? I mean we've talked about our dogs before.

Jo Tinsley (11:28):

Yeah, our dogs look quite similar. Mine's just smaller.

Rebecca Frank (11:30):

I know they do. Yeah.

Jo Tinsley (11:31):

But no, I mean I think dogs give you that companionship, don't they? So that you are on your own, but you're not on your own. I've just written a feature for the October issue. We have these my living features where we interview someone who has what might be considered like a dream job, and then they show you the realities and the insights and the pros and cons. Really interesting. Fascinating. So this was Fran from North Cornwall dog walking, and it was just really interesting because just to sort of understand the different pace of her day. So she gets up at 6:00 AM for the first toilet round and give the dogs their breakfast, but then because dogs can't be exercised straight after eating, then she's got this time to sort of sit down for coffee, read her book,

Rebecca Frank (12:05):

And they're quite calm at that time after they've had their breakfast, aren't they?

Jo Tinsley (12:08):

Yeah, yeah. So she was saying, is this real luxury compared with if she was working in an office where she might be battling traffic at that time of day digging into emails. Yeah, true. And then she does all these various group walks throughout the day, and then in the evening when dogs are sort of tired and fed and happy, which is the best time to have a dog,

Rebecca Frank (12:23):

She

Jo Tinsley (12:24):

Goes to the gym because she needs to be strong enough if she needs to carry a golden retriever ever, a style or something like that, she needs to actually be strong enough to do that.

Rebecca Frank (12:30):

Yeah, good point. Yeah, I have often thought I do so much dog walking. Maybe I should set up a dog walking business one day.

Jo Tinsley (12:36):

We used to read the features. She's got some good ideas.

Rebecca Frank (12:39):

I will, I will. There's always more to it than you realise, and that's what that feature is so good for. We're doing another on the subject of dogs, a series in me, which is our section at the back of the magazine with all sort of quirky things to do and little facts and things, but there's a great book that we've extracted and it's all about games to play with your dog.

Jo Tinsley (12:57):

Oh yeah, I've seen this.

Rebecca Frank (12:58):

And each month we've got a different one. So I've actually been trying some of these actually. You play a lot of games. Your dog's quite smart, I think, isn't

Jo Tinsley (13:06):

She? Yeah, she's quite smart. Yeah, my dog can roll the dice.

Rebecca Frank (13:11):

I don't actually believe this job. I think I've got a video of it. I'll send it. I do believe in it because I'm sure you wouldn't make it up, but it's

Jo Tinsley (13:16):

So far from what my dog would do. She doesn't then know how to take a turn. She takes a turn, she takes a turn and rolling the dice. So she wants to join in with us, so brilliant. We're rolling the dice. So she takes the turn, we put it in her mouth, she shakes her head and she rolls the dice. She does it in her mouth. I thought you meant she kind of flicked it with her

Rebecca Frank (13:32):

Pore.

Jo Tinsley (13:32):

No, she froze it across the room and then looks at it and it was like, oh, it's a six. This is just

Rebecca Frank (13:37):

Brilliant.

Jo Tinsley (13:37):

And then she waits to turn again. So that's what she thinks we're doing, which is really cute. But no, she's really good with scent. She's a toy cava poop. Kind of enjoy your sense. So yeah, we play lots of hiding games and treasure hunt games, so whether that's sort of hiding some cheese inside like a Kong toy. My daughter will hide it for her. She's been doing it since she's about two and then she just races around the house trying to find it.

Rebecca Frank (13:56):

Good thing for these kind of days where we've been having quite a lot of rain around here the last couple of weeks and actually some days and I'm working as well from home and I just need something too. I've got quite a young dog. I've got one that's at five, one that's two, and she's very live and she needs entertaining. What kind of dog is she? So she's a golden doodle.

Jo Tinsley (14:12):

Yeah, that's why they look similar.

Rebecca Frank (14:14):

So I tried one of the games from the book's called School for Dogs and they're humans and it's by Sophie Collins and because my dog is ball obsessed as well, so this is a good game for her. Put tennis balls into a muffin tin and hide the treats underneath. It's surprising. I thought she'd just straight away get the ball and run off with the ball. So obsessed with, but she's also very greedy. So it was interesting. We're seeing this kind of dilemma for her over what should she do? Should she get the ball or should she have the treat? And if she gets the treat or she lose, you can see the little

Jo Tinsley (14:39):

Minds working, can't you?

Rebecca Frank (14:40):

Yeah, and it did actually keep her entertained for a few minutes. Then obviously once she'd had all the treats figured out that she needed to move all the tennis balls, got the treats, put different value treats in different sections of the muffin tin ranging from her boring food to a nice piece of cheese or a bit of chicken, and then she had all these balls to play with, so she was actually quite happy. I'm going to try that. That sounds really fun. Changed a bit when I introduced the other dog. Polin started then, but I took some photos. I'll see if I've got a good one that I can share on my Instagram. But there's some good ideas, things like treasure hens, like you said, one that was hanging sausages or similar things on a washing line and then they can kind of try and get them off.

(15:14):

Yeah, I haven't tried that one. I haven't got actually got a washing line. You could rig something up. That would be quite fun. So yeah, I mean there's loads of fun to have with our dogs, loads of reasons to get out roaming with or without them on your own or with your friends, which leads us nice. So instead of a short story in this season, we've been reading out somebody's recollections of something that's really important and special to them. This time it's Joe is going to read this wonderful or I treasure about somebody's hiking boots. So over to you Joe.

Jo Tinsley (15:48):

What I treasure my walking boots by Abigail. Man, it's strange to think that my most treasured possession is a pair of boots that are so actively ignored when I don't need them. Usually accidental steps and hidden bugs that cause stagnant water to seep inside is their reason for being left in the boot of the car, always with a pledge of a deep, clean and oil, but so often exchanged for brisk bash in the car park to get rid of the biggest CLOs of muds before the next walk. These boots are older than I am worn in for 15 years by my mum and then passed down to me. The tricky size five and a halfs have been moulded to fit from a constant cycle of damp fields, sea salt and mossy wooden puffs. The laces have grown plump and awkward, sometimes stubbornly immovable through rusting eyelets and the promise of drying them out of long walks.

(16:45):

When I was seven or eight, I plotted alongside mum who wore the men on the farm. We stayed at every year, a little girl who held onto her mother's little finger. I pulled the grass seeds from the husks and scattered them like chicken seed. When I was 10, these boots would run away from the waves and dry with a sea salt line when we didn't escape the swash in time when camping. They held my tiny feet as I fetched water, but couldn't be bothered to pull on my own shoes. Instead shuffling along the heath to a tap sloshing the kettle all the way back until half of what was collected remained.

(17:22):

They took us through summers spent in herford soles wor from two decades of pushing down on spades and forks to lift onions and from standing for a photo in front of the same spot of a pine forest year after year, A family tradition that saw my brother and I grow tall with the saplings. They were mine after new waterproofing deemed mum's leather boots second best. Yes, they always let the water in. Yes, they barely support my ankles, but they bear the marks of a love of the outdoors that bloomed in the hills of the Brecken beacons and along the shores of North Norfolk. They've taken me up mountains and down valleys when I couldn't afford boots for my own. The ritual of wearing thick hiking socks and sliding into mum's walking boots is a kindred moment. I always send her a picture of wherever me and the boots have been. A digital scrapbook that continues the photo album stored on the family bookshelf. They are the anticipation and adventure that pulls me from concrete and carpet. Well used, well loved irreplaceable.

Rebecca Frank (18:32):

Oh, thanks Joe. And thanks Abigail. That's really heartwarming. And actually I have my mom's old hiking boots as well.

Jo Tinsley (18:39):

Do you?

Rebecca Frank (18:39):

Yeah. I often think about all the different places that they've been to. It's so great when people share with us, it's kind of very personal, intimate stories. I think it's a lovely thing to have in a magazine. But back to where? To Rome and your hiking boots. I quite often use our outing features for inspiration because they're always kind of UK based. The idea is there are places that you can go without having to travel too far, but I loved the one in our September issue because it's about railways and different ideas to getting out and about by train because I am particularly fond of train

Jo Tinsley (19:12):

Rides. Yeah, likewise. That's always been one of my things and I think it was nice to put it in September because that marks the 200th anniversary of the passenger railway.

Rebecca Frank (19:19):

Yes.

Jo Tinsley (19:19):

According to most train buss, obviously there's some controversy when that is 200

Rebecca Frank (19:23):

Years. Wow. I think there's lots of things going on aren't there around the country. To mark this, there's a website, railway two hundred.co uk that you can check out, but there are some great ideas within the piece as well.

Jo Tinsley (19:32):

Yeah, he talks about walking between request stops. It's really nice because about 150 request stops in the country, which is where you must hold out a hand as the train approaches or you let the guard know when you're on the train that you want to get out.

Rebecca Frank (19:45):

Maybe I have done that, but not for a long time.

Jo Tinsley (19:48):

Have you fresh food now? Use a request stop.

Rebecca Frank (19:50):

Yeah. Is it a request stop? I've definitely got on the train there. It does feel like it would be. It's a great little station.

Jo Tinsley (19:56):

Yeah.

Rebecca Frank (19:56):

Yeah. I would always have this. Do you always think, is it going to stop? Is it not? I know

Jo Tinsley (20:00):

That adds a little bit of real. Yeah. What's really nice I think is walking between them, which is what the features got ideas for doing that.

Rebecca Frank (20:06):

Yes.

Jo Tinsley (20:07):

And I've done this a few times in the uk, but I also did a whole trip in Spain, which I wrote about The Guardian, which was travelling on the FEV railway, which is really old sort of railway that goes along the north coast of Spain. And you'd get off on these completely literally platform in the middle of nowhere

Rebecca Frank (20:21):

Amazing.

Jo Tinsley (20:22):

And either explore and then get back on or walk to the next stop or something because these lines are taking you into places that you wouldn't normally go or you couldn't perhaps go to.

Rebecca Frank (20:32):

Yes. And how much more relaxing than doing that in a car? What a great idea to walk between the stops. That's brilliant. But maybe if it's too far, so like you said, you can just get off and explore the area, but you can buy special tickets, can't you? Here in the uk hop on, hop off for the day and I looked up these and there's like rovers and Rangers tickets and so you can get them too. So I looked around my area and either for the whole of the Southwest or just one little section, whether it's for a day, you have a certain number of trips you can use within a certain amount of time.

Jo Tinsley (20:59):

Yeah. I've used the one on the heart of Wales line a few times. That's really nice because normally when you, you're going Wales or Scotland or something, you go to the Breca Beacons or Nedon or something like that. And naturally like all of Wales is

Rebecca Frank (21:12):

Beautiful

Jo Tinsley (21:13):

And it's really nice to take these lines that you wouldn't normally explore on a tourist trip. You wouldn't normally go to these places, but they did this rail and roast dinners kind of one. So it was just ideas for where you could get off, have a roast dinner or go to a pub, get back on, get off, have another pint, get back on.

Rebecca Frank (21:30):

Great idea.

Jo Tinsley (21:31):

Yeah, it's just really nice. If you have a look at these train lines that they've got suggested itineraries.

Rebecca Frank (21:36):

Yes. It really reframes. I tend to use trains a bit too much. Just getting from A to BA bit stressful feels expensive. Whereas it is bringing the kind of romance back into train travel

Jo Tinsley (21:47):

And it slows it all down. You don't actually have to travel that far.

Rebecca Frank (21:51):

Yeah. There's something wonderful about travelling to the end of the line, isn't it?

Jo Tinsley (21:54):

Yeah.

Rebecca Frank (21:55):

Quite often go down to Cornwall and every time we take the train we say, why don't we do this every time and not bother with the car, but going all the way down to it's such a beautiful trip.

Jo Tinsley (22:04):

Yeah, we talked about this before. When you sort of get to that point where it is almost like you're skimming the water.

Rebecca Frank (22:10):

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jo Tinsley (22:12):

It's really, really nice.

Rebecca Frank (22:13):

And you're like, yay. And also when I'm going up north to visit my family, I'm often on the Glasgow train and part of me always was can shall I not get off in Sheffield?

Jo Tinsley (22:22):

Can I just go up to to Malay or or these real sort of end of the line. Yeah, exactly. Just go somewhere and

Rebecca Frank (22:30):

Have an adventure. Yeah.

Jo Tinsley (22:31):

What's really nice about a lot of these places, all those actually said Pennan, Malay, OEN, you can then get on a ferry.

Rebecca Frank (22:37):

Yes. Do

Jo Tinsley (22:37):

You know what I mean? It's like the adventure doesn't stop there. It stops at the coast but then opens up the islands, doesn't it?

Rebecca Frank (22:41):

Yeah.

Jo Tinsley (22:42):

I think another thing which train travel can do is you don't have to travel to the end of the line. You don't have to travel to a city, but you could just use it as a way to explore a town. Yeah, I was thinking sort of spa towns because we always would've linked up spa towns. Of course. Yeah. Yeah. A hundred, 200 years ago as well where people were going. So I like getting off at Matlock Spa on the edge of the peak

Rebecca Frank (23:01):

District. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Been there a lot. Cheltham Spa, Harrogate Bath, obviously where I live. We did a piece, actually it was a while back, but I'll dig it out. And it was about the enjoyment of going to these spa towns and thinking about the history of them because obviously the whole ritual of taking the waters, you should come and drink the waters and bathe in them for all their amazing healing properties. And that all fell out of fashion. And I think Bath is the only place actually where you can go and bathe in thermal waters now with the Thermo Spa, which took so long to build. And you must've been there, haven't you, Joe?

Jo Tinsley (23:34):

Yeah, yeah, a few times. Yeah.

Rebecca Frank (23:35):

It's a treat, but it's also quite a part of the city. And you do feel the benefits of the water, don't you?

Jo Tinsley (23:40):

And you get a great view over the city as well, don't you?

Rebecca Frank (23:42):

Yeah,

Jo Tinsley (23:43):

Because it's like that rooftop. Oh, which is really nice. We also did on spring and well hunting, didn't we?

Rebecca Frank (23:48):

Yes. That's very recent in our August issue. So if you've got that, have a flick back or you can still get hold of it online. Obviously this was an extract from a book by Claire Ty, who's one of our writers. And I like this. This is finding the little wells and springs and often you really have to look hard for them and it's a bit of a discovery when you find them. You might have a look on a map or there's some suggestions in KLAS book and obviously within the piece of places to go and hunt them out. And then there's lots of little kind of stories and rituals around what people would've done around these springs.

Jo Tinsley (24:18):

It almost feels like a little pilgrimage, doesn't it?

Rebecca Frank (24:20):

It's a little pilgrimage, yeah. There's this thing called a cluey, which is a tradition of tying rags that have been dipped into,

Jo Tinsley (24:27):

Do you know what? I've seen that, but I didn't know what it was.

Rebecca Frank (24:30):

So you dip the rag into the water into the spring of the well and then hang it on the tree. And I think it's a good luck thing. I've seen them on trees as well.

Jo Tinsley (24:38):

Yeah, I've seen them. I didn't actually know what it was. So if you don't feel brave enough to actually drink the water, because whenever I walk up Glastonbury tour, which is near me, there's two waters. There's a tap on one side of the red and tap on the other side, and they're like the red and the, I can't remember, but one's more iron rich than, and people are filling up their water bottles and drinking from it, but

Rebecca Frank (24:56):

You not feel brave enough.

Jo Tinsley (24:57):

People also they in it. So I dunno if they're ever upstream, but No, no, I have had a bit.

Rebecca Frank (25:04):

Yeah, I think you can still sample the water in the pump room in bath as well actually, and in various different spa towns. But yeah, no, I like that idea. And different walks and different outings like that, they just make you feel different for different moods.

Jo Tinsley (25:16):

Yeah. Do you ever find when you're going on a walk that the landscape reflects how you're feeling or they feel very different, I think is what I'm trying to say. Yes. So I love this feeling when you take an ancient path like the Ridgeway, which goes from Avery to drink through Oxford Wilshire. I just love that feeling that you are walking, you're treading the same path that's been used for 5,000 years.

Rebecca Frank (25:36):

Amazing. Yeah.

Jo Tinsley (25:37):

There's travellers, farmers, army, Saxons, Vikings. It helps you to kind of think of a relation to these people

Rebecca Frank (25:44):

Completely.

Jo Tinsley (25:45):

And it feels completely different than if you were like, I dunno, going in a woodland walk or a coastal walk. It's nice to match them to your mood.

Rebecca Frank (25:52):

Yeah, it does. And I think you almost choose your walk to reflect how you're feeling that sometimes you seek that out and on these paths. I often think this, and it's been really up front of mind since I interviewed and also spent a weekend on a retreat with Nick Hayes, who's one of the two guys behind the right to roam campaign in this country. I just look around me often and think about how it's all about access and connection with nature. So his whole theory, obviously his campaign is about increasing access for people because there's so much most vast swats of our countryside that we can't access for various reasons. Private landowners largely, but you don't really think about that as you can just chop down your narrow little path and there's all these kind of fields around you that you can't get into. But just to connect with nature and to promote that. Because I think his whole point is that if we don't allow people to connect with nature, then they won't take care of it.

Jo Tinsley (26:41):

Yeah, exactly. He wrote a feature for us in 1 4 7 that we want to link to. I had to read it a couple of times. I was like, this is really interesting. So he was saying how these humble handmade interventions, like a rope swing, a can a den.

Rebecca Frank (26:52):

Yes, that's right. Yes.

Jo Tinsley (26:54):

May hold the key to improving our relationship with nature, but also even our attitude to access.

Rebecca Frank (26:59):

Yes.

Jo Tinsley (26:59):

It took me a few guys to get my head around it, but you gave the example of Bothies in Scotland. So how bothy culture has changed attitudes to access in Scotland? So today, bies are used by thousands of people for free every year. And they're maintained by volunteers and they're a great place where you can just go, it's almost like camping, but inside, if you know what I mean. You bring a bed roll and a sleeping bag and you camp.

Rebecca Frank (27:17):

But they didn't use to be, did they? It was illegal to use them. Yeah,

Jo Tinsley (27:20):

No, it was illegal to use them. And so it is only by using them, by then valuing them, by then taking care of them that then people gained the rights and access to them

Rebecca Frank (27:30):

And that they haven't fallen into complete disrepair as well.

Jo Tinsley (27:33):

And so that's the same thing with rope swings, dems and cans is that they have this potential, so they invite us in to value and appreciate the woodland in a different way. They become destinations like a rope swing is this,

Rebecca Frank (27:44):

You can walk past a rope swing.

Jo Tinsley (27:45):

Exactly.

Rebecca Frank (27:46):

Yeah. We were on a walk the other day down the canal. My kids are 19, 21 and 15. Was it a rope swing over the canal? That's bold. Yeah, we all had a go. You just can't. It was up a little bank and yeah, you swung over the canal. Luckily none of us fell in. Like he said, he's like this whole thing about leaving no trace and humans being somehow invisible in nature. We can't be, there's no part of nature that's not touched by humans. So let's us touch it in a respectful way, but enjoy it and play with it.

Jo Tinsley (28:15):

And I liked how he was writing about den saying, Denning is this instinctive behaviour. It's a challenge that's intellectual, physical, creative, collaborative, but it also, you are seeking materials. You're looking at the woods in different way of what can I use for a roof? How can I use this? And you go back into that sort of playful way of being, even if it's just adults who are doing it. And then the jeopardy is like, is this roof going to hold up?

Rebecca Frank (28:37):

Yeah, I watch family and I did it myself. We've got some wood in, there's lots of dens. And they encourage it. National trust encourage it. And the parents are just as much into it as the kids are. It's such a fun thing to do. And obviously it's so important to be respectful. This is why they're saying that the access in Scotland has worked well because it hasn't actually led to more litter or more vandalism or all the things that people worry about. The increased access has actually just helped people to connect with nature more. So as long as we're respectful, we don't disrupt things, we don't pull things out, we don't cut things down. We can enjoy nature.

Jo Tinsley (29:06):

And I think related to this kind of right to Rome, is this right to swim? Oh, yes. Which has been rumbling on for some time now. So it's not a clear cut thing where you are allowed to

Rebecca Frank (29:16):

Swim. No, I find it really confusing.

Jo Tinsley (29:18):

And the outdoor swimming society has a really clear guide with rules, the official rules that you can follow or choose not to, which we can link to as well. But so they were explaining that in Scotland, swimmers have the right to swim as part of their statutory to responsible access to most land and water, so in effect, the right to own. But in England and Wales, the law on inland swimming is less clear. It's more restrictive. So there's many places where you have the legal right to swim and where there's very strong arguments that the right exists, but then there's numerous places where it's not okay

Rebecca Frank (29:48):

Because you can't access it there as well. Isn't that right?

Jo Tinsley (29:50):

Yeah. So they give some examples of the right to swim in the sea is clear, not disputed. You have the right to swim in tidal waters. You've got the right to swim in waters and navigable and open to power boats and you have a right to swim where there's a footpath or highway that enters or crosses the water.

Rebecca Frank (30:04):

But

Jo Tinsley (30:05):

There's interesting fact like landowners may own the bank and the riverbed, but not the water. So how do you navigate this? And then you've got to navigate everyone's shared usage of the river. It is like swimmers as kayas fishermen. It's like we're all on the same side, but often there's some kind of conflict there. But I did a really, really fun adventurous swim a few years ago, gosh, probably about eight years ago now, when I joined a group of swimmers down the river mole in Surrey over two days. It was co-hosted by adventure and covered in the wild swimming brothers. And it felt like one of the most adventurous things I've ever done. Wow. How far did you swim

Rebecca Frank (30:41):

Then?

Jo Tinsley (30:41):

So it was about seven KA day, but it wasn't really swimming because we were in the quite sort of high reach of this river. So there was swimming, there was scrambling over rapids, there was walking sections, there was floating down sections when it was quite fast. Oh, how

Rebecca Frank (30:54):

Fun. That sounds brilliant.

Jo Tinsley (30:56):

But we just navigated this course of the river over two days. And the interesting thing was that it was all within the M 25.

Rebecca Frank (31:02):

So you weren't in some remote place that you've had to travel out. No,

Jo Tinsley (31:05):

But we felt like we were, so we met at this London train station and we walked with our wetsuits, all kind of zipping the milk as we walked through the car park and then scrambled down to the water. And when you're in the water, occasionally you'd hear the kind of roar of cars, but also you are watching parakeets screeching overhead and damsel flies and gliding past swans really carefully. Yeah,

Rebecca Frank (31:26):

I think Nick described it, these corridors of green, they, that's all you're aware of when you're in a river, whether you're in the water on a kayak or whatever, it just feels like a different world, doesn't it?

Jo Tinsley (31:36):

And it's just these places make us feel good. They

Rebecca Frank (31:38):

Do. They make us feel good because we're out in nature. We're exercising, we're having fresh air. We're probably with other people. So we're connecting. We're not just sitting in a online world, whatever, in our homes. So I've written a feature coming out in the October issue, which is all about the kind of feelgood hormones that we hear talked about so much like serotonin, dopamine, oxy. And it's just explaining what these are and actually how the small things that we do in our day really can affect the levels of these and the balance of these. And one of the overall messages is getting out and about and then reducing the stress hormones and increasing the feelgood hormones.

Jo Tinsley (32:15):

And one of the things you can do to feel this more, allow this sort of feeling of letting your mind wander a little bit is to do a walking meditation.

Rebecca Frank (32:22):

Yes, great idea. Yeah.

Jo Tinsley (32:24):

Yeah. So we've had this in the magazine a while ago.

Rebecca Frank (32:26):

I find that I much easier than a sitting down at home meditation personally,

Jo Tinsley (32:30):

Especially if you're like a busy person or something.

Rebecca Frank (32:32):

Yeah. Do you want to talk through how you do that then, Joe?

Jo Tinsley (32:35):

Yeah. So a walking meditation gives you this sort of doses of gentle alongside the calming wellbeing exercise of a meditation. So the first step might be just sitting at home before you leave. So getting into that relaxed meditative space before you even open the front door.

Rebecca Frank (32:51):

So not just running around trying to find your boots, your keys, your,

Jo Tinsley (32:56):

And then you sit and you notice you're breathing, you pay attention to how you're feeling. And then as you're leaving the house, you start to pay attention to the rhythm of your feet. So you walk slowly. You could match your footsteps to your in and out breaths, maybe five steps as you breathe in five steps as you breathe out, it kind of slows you down. Yeah, nice. You see what feels comfortable in your body and in your steps. And then you start to notice the feeling of the ground as it rolls beneath your feet, whether it rolls from the heel to the ball to the toe of each foot. And then once you get into the rhythm of that and your mind starts to still a little, then you can try a little bit of mindfulness. So you might the intention of about noticing the sounds and the smells and then noticing what kind of worries or everyday thoughts come into your head. And then gently nudging them out and going back to the feeling of your feet on the floor or the sounds that you can hear. And it's just a nice way to connect.

Rebecca Frank (33:49):

Yeah. Do you know what? I feel more relaxed just listening to you say that someone could play that when they're out walking and follow that. And I think find that it gives a really different kind of feel to a walk. A lot of people struggle with meditation, myself included. And it's a different way of approaching it, isn't it? Yeah. In fact, it's like golden hour activity. That's true. Which is what we've been talking about, which is just in this golden season, having an intention for a little special bit of time to yourself. My golden hour activity in the last couple of weeks has been my, actually it was in my trip to Switzerland. We had a plane to catch, but we had a couple of hours in Geneva and what she do, and I was like, I want to go and swim. And we hadn't managed to swim in the lake there on our way passing through before. So we dashed down and we went back to this bathing club. The weather was a lot better than it had been before. And I just had this little really quick but really beautiful swim on my own. And I like to do this at the end of summer. Oh, nice. And just for me, mark's the end of my summer. This is my last swim away and I'm going to think about where I'm going to be next year and what I've done this year. It is a special moment for me.

Jo Tinsley (34:49):

That's really nice. Like a milestone, like a little mark at the end of the trip.

Rebecca Frank (34:52):

Yeah. Yeah. How about you?

Jo Tinsley (34:54):

I think mine's going to be to plan this solo week in a way. Preparing for this podcast and talking about it has actually been like, oh, I actually really want to do that and I really want to work out what form that takes because it's something that I used to do pre having a family. And it's just interesting to think what does that mean to me and what do I need to do? So yeah, I'm going to plan a weekend away on my own.

Rebecca Frank (35:13):

Great idea. The planning is just as much fun as the doing, I think. Great. Well, I think that brings us to the end of this episode, which has been all about roaming, and I hope you've enjoyed it. All the things that we've mentioned. We will put into the show notes, which you can find on the app. Obviously. You can also buy our current issue and our back issues on the website, the simple things.com. Look out for our October issue. If you want to take immediate start sub and get it straight away, it's the hug issue. Oh, nice. So it'll be like a hug in the post and you save 30% by subscribing. So thank you. Thanks for listening. We'll be back again next week. Bye for now.