Golden Days - Episode 5 - HARVEST

Join The Simple Things’ Editor Lisa Sykes and Wellbeing Editor Rebecca Frank for our own mini harvest festival as they relish this time of abundance for cooking, gathering and squirreling away before the first frosts arrive. 

If you are in the UK, you can try an immediate start subscription to the The Simple Things and receive the current issue straight away. Or buy current and back issues here

Editing by Dhylyn Foster. Music by Arthur Cosslett. 

On the blog

Hedgrow fizz – foraged berries diluted with sparkling wine or water 

Crab apple whisky 

Crab apple and fennel seed leather

In defence of the pear 

How to stock a store cupboard 

Lessons from Nigella
Baked pear pies 

In the October HUG issue (160) on sale now 

Kitchen therapy – baked pear pies and a mindful drawing exercise

Wine and cheese gathering – good wine and cheese pairings make for happy guests 

In previous issues

In the September TREASURE issue (159) 

Plates to plot – share the harvest with friends by holding your own allotment feast with a tipple of warm apple cider and other seasonal dishes

Coming up in the November issue (161) 

Smart ways to eat well. An extract from Shrewd Food: 60 Ways to Eat Yourself Healthy by Noonie Zand Goodarzi (Badger Books). Illustrations by Mudd Bexley
November issue 161 will be available to pre-order at picsandink.com  from 16 October, on sale from 22 October.  

Don’t give up your garden for winter: The natural world may be winding down but autumn is actually the start of the agricultural year, a time to plant and plan for the months ahead

In Flourish Volume 3 

Today, tomorrow to keep: pears 

Chocolate pear cake and preserved pears in red wine 

Pre-order the new Flourish Volume 4 with 10% off at www.picsandink.com until 29 October

How to subscribe to The Simple Things – for an immediate start subscription with 30%  go to off cover price go to  http://www.icebergpress.co.uk/subscribe

Transcript

Lisa Sykes (00:12):

Hi, you've arrived at episode five of our Golden Days season of The Small Ways to Live Well podcast from the Simple Things magazine. I'm the editor Lisa Sykes, and today I am with our wellbeing editor, Becs Frank, and we're going to have our own little mini harvest festival as the golden days make the shift into autumn from summer. It can also be a melancholy time for some because we leave more light behind each day, but it's also a time of abundance for cooking, gathering and squirrelling away before the first frosts arrive. It's still very much a golden time though, right? Becs?

Becs Frank (00:42):

 Oh yeah, definitely. I'm noticing the golden leaves on the floor when I'm walking through the woods carpeting the woods and the sunsets are spectacular as well at the moment.

Lisa Sykes (00:51):

Oh, I know. I think it is still golden, even if the light is getting shorter, isn't it?

Becs Frank (00:56):

Yeah.

Lisa Sykes (00:57):

But if you're listening to this as we release the episode, well thank you very much for being keen. So we're releasing it on the 28th of September, but tomorrow, the 29th of September is Michaelmas, and I didn't really know much about Michaelmas until we did a feature on it, but it's a centuries old tradition and is like the ancient herald of autumn. It marked the first day of the new farming year, and tenants of farmers would pay their rents. They were due for the quarter and apparently often they would present their landlords with a fat and goose, presumably hoping that they'd get a more lenient rent. A result of it. Yes. I certainly probably wouldn't know what to do with a fat and goose. Really? No,

Becs Frank (01:36):

I'm not sure how that would be received.

Lisa Sykes (01:38):

A friend of mine once turned up at our house with abrasive pheasant and my mum's for New Year.

Becs Frank (01:42):

Oh really?

Lisa Sykes (01:42):

They sort of hung them in the garage of their seventies bungalow and made me gut and pluck them before I went back to London. Unless you're a country person, you probably don't come across plucked pheasant very often or any sort of game bird, do you?

Becs Frank (01:55):

No, no, no. We have been also given an plucked pheasant ones by a neighbour, and I was a bit like, I dunno how to deal with this.

Lisa Sykes (02:04):

Yeah, no, I mean tasty, but perhaps not an everyday kind of thing.

Becs Frank (02:08):

And also actually a goose is quite hard if you're thinking about a goose as a traditional meat for MICUs. It's not that easy to get really, is it at this time of year?

Lisa Sykes (02:15):

No, I don't think so. We tend to have them more at Christmas, don't we?

Becs Frank (02:18):

Yeah,

Lisa Sykes (02:19):

Once cooked one at Christmas, and they are quite full on to cook, but they're very tasty. But our MICUs gathering, she went for a duck and I thought that was a nice alternative. She did it with a sticky damson sauce, which sounds lovely, doesn't it? Great.

Becs Frank (02:33):

That's a really good terminal feast, isn't it?

Lisa Sykes (02:35):

Yeah. If you forage a few berries to make the sauce, it's like, oh, any sort of berries you can put slows in elderberries and you just let the bugs escape first, mash them up, push them through a sieve, add a bit of sugar, and then you can either freeze it or add it to fizz or sparkling water. Maybe a hedge roof is.

Becs Frank (02:54):

Yes, I like that. So you've got this double duty kind of syrup that you've made.

Lisa Sykes (02:57):

Yes, exactly. Apparently can drizzle it on porridge as well, which I love that idea. Oh, this is making me feel really autumnal

Becs Frank (03:04):

In a good way.

Lisa Sykes (03:05):

I know, I know. Just talking about sort of berries and porridge. It makes you feel autumnal, doesn't it? And she had a cobbler on the menu of the gathering as well. Oh, I think I'm going to start calling all crumbles cobblers. I just like the word. It's nice, isn't it? But she did it with card among custard, which I think must be really nice. It'll just have a little kick in it, won't it? That takes away that sort of really richness from the custard.

Becs Frank (03:29):

Yes. There's some funny folklore around MICUs as well. So it's named after St. Michael the day. Oh yeah, before he goes it in the Battle of Heaven, he battled Satan kicked him out of heaven. Right. So Satan landed on a thorny blackberry bush and thereby kind of cursed the bush so that any blackberries eaten after St. Michael's day of Michel mass would be take cloud. Oh, interesting. So now the folklore is you shouldn't eat blackberries after tomorrow.

Lisa Sykes (03:53):

Well, you'd struggle to do that this year, wouldn't they? Because they've nearly all dried up, not enough water, too much sun, and they've been very early.

Becs Frank (04:00):

I think it's okay if you picked them before.

Lisa Sykes (04:02):

Yes. Because you could freeze them and Yeah, yeah, definitely. Yeah, that's probably counts as Okay. You won't have to curse on that one. I looked into a little bit of agricultural year history, which I know might not be everyone's good for tea, but I thought this was quite interesting. So MICUs is one of the four quarter days, which is when people used to hire their servants. Well, presumably rich people used to hire their servants and when the school terms started and rents were due, there's still a legacy of that in law that rents are often still due these dates. But I think it was all about ensuring debts and legal stuff didn't drag on.

Becs Frank (04:35):

Right. Oh, interesting.

Lisa Sykes (04:35):

Do you know what the four days are? I don't. No, I've got no idea.

Becs Frank (04:39):

I know one.

Lisa Sykes (04:40):

Yeah, MICUs is the 29th of September, but in the spring you get Lady day on the 25th of March,

Becs Frank (04:44):

Lady Day,

Lisa Sykes (04:46):

Midsummers days, the 24th of June, they're all near the Equinox and Solstice.

Becs Frank (04:50):

Yes, they,

Lisa Sykes (04:51):

And then Christmas day, can you imagine someone trying to collect rent or pay tax or whatever on the bank holiday at Christmas Day? That's very

Becs Frank (05:00):

Interesting. And you still got a nickel term.

Lisa Sykes (05:02):

Exactly. I

Becs Frank (05:03):

Remember my daughter at university saying, I dunno why this term's called MICUs.

Lisa Sykes (05:07):

No, but it's interesting because MICUs is obviously that's still the day term start a lot of your older universities. 29th of September. But Lady day, this is a nerdy fact, but I quite like it. So the British tax year ends on the 5th of April, and that is because it was actually Lady Day. I know I just said Lady Day was the 25th of March, but of course the calendar used to be before it was a Gregorian calendar, the other calendar, it moved on 11 days when we changed the calendar. So that made it the 5th of April. So that's why the tax year ends on the 5th of April. Oh, okay. I think we've gone down a bit of a rabbit hole now.

Becs Frank (05:42):

Very interesting facts, Lisa. I had no idea about that.

Lisa Sykes (05:46):

Yeah, no. Well, I didn't until last week. Instant expert you see

Becs Frank (05:50):

Every day before

Lisa Sykes (05:51):

Then. But the upshot is that by MICUs, the harvest is really safely gathered in, isn't it? So it's a time to enjoy the bounty. I dunno about you, but this year the bounty has definitely been apples,

Becs Frank (06:00):

Hasn't it? Yeah, yeah.

Lisa Sykes (06:02):

I feel so bad because the windfalls in my garden, I just

Becs Frank (06:06):

Haven't used them all. I know. You can see it everywhere, can't you? And actually they've brought forward quite a lot of the apple picking days from October into September. Oh,

Lisa Sykes (06:14):

Have they?

Becs Frank (06:15):

Yeah, the National Trust, there was one near to me and they were doing an apple picking day early September, and actually when I did a little walk around there the other day, there weren't many apples left. So there'll be some later ones, I think.

Lisa Sykes (06:26):

Yes, yes.

Becs Frank (06:27):

The pears are meant to be really good and they're a bit later of course. So

Lisa Sykes (06:31):

Yes. No, that's true. You were telling me you've got loads of crab apples there.

Becs Frank (06:35):

Oh, I do. And they're so beautiful. And I was saying to you, I think for me, they're kind of more ornamental than anything. And then actually no, you're telling me I need to get on it and make some things.

Lisa Sykes (06:44):

Well, yeah, no, I told you about crab apple whiskey, which I've done before, and we've got this on the blog, so we'll put a link to that. But it's like you get the sweetness of the apple combined with a peay whiskey.

Becs Frank (06:54):

Yeah, because I don't like whiskey very much. Do you think I'd like this?

Lisa Sykes (06:57):

I mean, I do like whiskey, so I don't know. It makes a lovely gift though.

Becs Frank (07:00):

But I was just going to say, I might make some as a present, but then I would have no idea whether it tastes a good or not.

Lisa Sykes (07:07):

But the nice thing is you don't need an expensive malt whiskey to do it with. You can do it with just a normal scotch.

Becs Frank (07:12):

Right, okay.

Lisa Sykes (07:13):

Because it's about the flavour of the crab apple and stuff.

Becs Frank (07:16):

And the longer you leave it, presumably the better it gets.

Lisa Sykes (07:19):

Yeah, I think we've done these drinks to be, you do them in sort of October, November, and then they're ready for Christmas. That's the idea.

Becs Frank (07:26):

Yeah, I think you can even do them longer than that. That's a good idea. I'll get some and make something for some Christmas presents.

Lisa Sykes (07:32):

Yeah, no, I think it'd be good. But you really like that seed leather that we've put on the blog as well, didn't you?

Becs Frank (07:36):

I really like the look of it. I must confess. I haven't actually tried it, but yes. And you can make this with crab apples as well, or you can make it with any fruit I think. So this is a fruit leather, right? It's a fruit leather and you dry it out, so you obviously cook it down, then spread it out and cook it at a very, very low temperature

Lisa Sykes (07:53):

So it stays in the shape

Becs Frank (07:54):

And it kind of dries out. But I imagine that it still has some flexibility. Then you roll it up in your kind grease paper and then store it and then you have this really, imagine that really tasty, kind of quite sweet, but not over sweet snack.

Lisa Sykes (08:08):

Yes. I've got this picture of you in your kitchen experimenting with this fruit leather. I think it'd be a nice project for autumn, wouldn't it?

Becs Frank (08:15):

Yeah, yeah, yeah. A really nice project.

Lisa Sykes (08:17):

Yeah.

Becs Frank (08:17):

Lots of rainy days at the moment. A nice kitchen project like that really appeals.

Lisa Sykes (08:22):

I want to do something with Hawthorn berries because the tree in my front garden has just got the best berries on it I've ever seen on it.

Becs Frank (08:29):

They're incredible, aren't they? This year as well.

Lisa Sykes (08:31):

Yeah. Really nice. It means quite a lot to me because we scattered my dad's ashes around a Hawthorne tree near where we grew up, so having this Hawthorne tree outside my window always reminds me of that. So it's really

Becs Frank (08:41):

Nice. They are beautiful, aren't they? And yet you can do quite a lot with those in a similar way. Jams and chutneys and jellies and things like that, but also they make a really pretty little table, puts 'em in a posey. We'll talk about that later. We,

Lisa Sykes (08:52):

I have actually done a Posey to show you Beck.

Becs Frank (08:55):

Oh, no way.

Lisa Sykes (08:56):

I have, I'm going to keep it under wraps until later in the episode.

Becs Frank (08:59):

Is it on your desk now?

Lisa Sykes (09:00):

No, I'm not going to show you. I'll show you at the end and then we can talk about it.

Becs Frank (09:03):

I love that. Brilliant. Well done.

Lisa Sykes (09:05):

Yeah, I know it's not like me, but let's talk more about berries. Obviously you've got slows as well. And again, I've got black thorns that have sell seeded all over my garden and this year they are all loaded with slows. I'm going to definitely make some slow recipes.

Becs Frank (09:19):

So you're meant to wait a bit, aren't you? For the slows?

Lisa Sykes (09:22):

Yes. You're supposed to wait till the first frost, aren't you?

Becs Frank (09:25):

Yes, but I think I read that this year. You probably shouldn't wait that long

Lisa Sykes (09:29):

Because they're ripe early. Yeah,

Becs Frank (09:31):

It depends where you live and what the location of the bush as well. Obviously you can do a bit of a test.

Lisa Sykes (09:36):

Yeah. How do you know if they're right,

Becs Frank (09:37):

If they look dark and quite plump? And also if you press them, they should feel a bit like a plumb when it's ripe soft and with a bit of give.

Lisa Sykes (09:45):

Yes, yes. A little bit of give. Yeah, exactly.

Becs Frank (09:47):

You were telling me that you can actually make a fake frost for them.

Lisa Sykes (09:51):

Yes. You basically put 'em in the freezer, don't you? And then it helps split the skins.

Becs Frank (09:55):

Is that why you do it? Okay.

Lisa Sykes (09:57):

I think so. I think the whole point of the frost is they do go softer and sweeter after the frost has hit them. So I think you just tried to replicate that. But I have to say, right there was a recipe, we did some in issue 125, so it was a while ago, and this one isn't on the blog, but there's another one for sticky, slow and nut clusters. That sounds good. But there's one for slow treacle tart that I am so going to make because there's something about the words tle tart that just make you go.

Becs Frank (10:29):

Yeah, yeah. There's obviously all the berries and then we mentioned the pears, but I think it's definitely worth coming back to that because they're also having a bumper season and they're meant to be, apparently the skins are great and green glossy, so it's a good year for them. But with pears, you need to pick them when they're still a bit hard because they ripen very quickly. Okay. There's a little task where you can lift them up on the branch and if there's some give, then you can pull it off and then they will quite quickly ripen.

Lisa Sykes (10:59):

And they're a bit later than apples as well, aren't they usually?

Becs Frank (11:01):

Yeah. I mean they're probably not far off ready, if not ready, depending again, the variety and where you live.

Lisa Sykes (11:07):

And

Becs Frank (11:07):

We've got some great recipes for pairs as well in Flourish, the last edition of Flourish, the third one,

Lisa Sykes (11:13):

I'm just going to give flourish a little plug, Becks, because you've been modest. So Becks edits our Flourish, which is our Will bean book scene that we do every year. And we've done three already, but excitingly, the fourth one is on the way, isn't it?

Becs Frank (11:26):

Yeah, I feel like it's a child. I'm talking about a baby. There's one on the way.

Lisa Sykes (11:31):

Yes. Yes. Next will be giving birth to Flourish very soon. But yes, it's actually very soon because this episode, as I say, is out the end of September and you can already pre-order Flourish,

Becs Frank (11:42):

Can you? Wow.

Lisa Sykes (11:44):

Yes, I know. Which we haven't even made it yet, but you can pre-order it with a discount until the 29th of October when it will be printed. It's going to be great. And they're going to be sent out from the beginning of November. Yeah.

Becs Frank (11:55):

Brilliant. In the meantime, if you've got the third edition or you can still buy it, you, there's a whole piece on pears that was part of a Today, tomorrow to Keep

Lisa Sykes (12:03):

Series. I love that series. It was really nice, doesn't it?

Becs Frank (12:06):

Yeah, it was things that you can do well, exactly as it sounds really something to eat today, something to keep, something to keep for even longer and preserve. And there's this incredible chocolate pear cake.

Lisa Sykes (12:18):

Yes.

Becs Frank (12:19):

You place whole peeled pears within the sponge batter and it looks so beautiful when you slice it. Yeah,

Lisa Sykes (12:25):

Nice.

Becs Frank (12:25):

And then some preserved pears and red wine, which just the thing to have with some ice cream, surely.

Lisa Sykes (12:31):

And you reminded me, we've done a funny blog post, which we'll put on the show note somewhere about pears. You told me, and I can't believe this.

Becs Frank (12:39):

Oh yes. That was in Defence of the Pear.

Lisa Sykes (12:42):

Yes. But pear trees can live 250 years, did you say?

Becs Frank (12:47):

Yeah, two 50 years. An apple is maximum of about a hundred. And it was basically how pairs are kind of the apple's poor relation really not as popular.

Lisa Sykes (12:56):

Yes. But actually we talked about pears in our October sheet that's on sale now as well because in our kitchen therapy series, which I guess regular listeners will have heard us mentioned this before, but it's a series we're running all year, and the idea is that you take your time a little bit and you lean into your kitchen and do things more slowly. And we always have a little thing in there that's something to do while you wait, while something's cooking. And in this one Lotti who does the series, she's sketching a pair. I think there's something, I dunno, because it's quite a private place, your kitchen, you could do it without thinking, oh, I dunno whether I can really do this. And it is just for you, isn't it?

Becs Frank (13:31):

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's quite a simple thing to sketch, but they're a good

Lisa Sykes (13:36):

Shape and yeah. Yeah. No, I think a bit of fruit ball sketching would be quite fun. Why not?

Becs Frank (13:41):

In celebration of the past

Lisa Sykes (13:42):

And another recipe. So well just to finish on pears, we've got a baked pair pies, which are like half pears with pastry round. What's not to like about that? And that's going to be on the blog too, so we'll put that out there. Right stuff. Right. We'll move on from pears. Let's talk about allotments. I used to have an allotment and I did really love it because it's different from having a veg patch in your garden because it's a whole community out there.

Becs Frank (14:09):

I haven't had one, but I've thought about it. And I do look at a couple of walks that I do where I can walk through allotments alongside them. And I do think, oh, it has a really romantic appeal to me, but I don't know. It's a commitment, isn't it? You do need to know what's involved.

Lisa Sykes (14:24):

It is, but I know what you mean. It's got a touch of the land girl about it. It's like when they used to go out there, but also it's a leveller. There are people from all backgrounds, mixed communities, ages, and what you do is you end up knowing people casually over many years and the chat's often quite superficial and there's a sort of pleasantness to that, but you end up knowing quite a lot about your allotment neighbor's lives because it builds up gradually. It's

Becs Frank (14:50):

Actually a really, really good thing to do on so many levels. Obviously you're out in nature, you're growing, you get that satisfaction of growing something, you're having little social interactions.

Lisa Sykes (15:02):

Yes,

Becs Frank (15:02):

You've also got a lot of space, but you can obviously don't have allotment. You can do this in your garden.

Lisa Sykes (15:07):

You can, but the interesting thing about an allotment though is you are accountable because there's a competitiveness to allotments as well.

Becs Frank (15:14):

Well, this is what would stress me out about it. I'm not going to lie.

Lisa Sykes (15:18):

Well, it's funny because when we first got our allotment, we hadn't realised we'd officially got the allotment and it was like one of the bank holiday weekends, either Easter or Mayday or something, and someone came and knocked on our door because our allotment plot that we got was really overgrown. And they said, sorry, but it's the Vanko weekend. Why aren't you out on your plot? No kidding. We were like, well, we actually didn't realise we'd got it already. Basically, nobody wants an overgrown plot. It's just going to spread weeds to everyone else's plot. Oh, wow. So there is some accountability there,

Becs Frank (15:48):

Which I guess is probably a good thing in that it keeps you going and keeps you motivated.

Lisa Sykes (15:51):

Yes.

Becs Frank (15:52):

But I think I'd get that comparison sort of stress.

Lisa Sykes (15:56):

There's peaceful moments as well though. You can just sit there, especially in a city where the open spaces are not usually as quiet,

Becs Frank (16:04):

Good opportunity for a shed and a little bit of shed time and we love a shed. We, I'd like that thought of sitting in my shed overlooking my allotment, having a bit of me time. Definitely. Although it's not

Lisa Sykes (16:14):

Always a private space. I mean people do and share their advice whether it's wanted or not.

Becs Frank (16:21):

I can imagine.

Lisa Sykes (16:22):

But they've got quite an interesting history allotments though, because during the first World War, when obviously the men went to fight their wives, sisters and mothers continued to cultivate the plots. And so it led to more women on allotment sites.

Becs Frank (16:35):

Of course.

Lisa Sykes (16:35):

And apparently now for the first time ever, there's more women growing on sites than the UK than men, which is quite interesting.

Becs Frank (16:42):

Yeah, I can imagine that. Yeah.

Lisa Sykes (16:44):

Yeah. I think it was Elizabeth, the first that decreed that every tenant cottage constructed during in her reign should be allocated land for cultivation. This was after the enclosures and stuff.

Becs Frank (16:55):

Yeah. Well, that was in response because it was all about the common lands were taken over, weren't they? Yes,

Lisa Sykes (16:59):

Exactly. Yeah. The enclosures act and all that.

Becs Frank (17:02):

Yeah. Very interesting.

Lisa Sykes (17:03):

Yeah. But apparently I know about this rule actually. So there was an allotment act in 1908. It was called the Rule of Six, and basically so it protected allotments and that statutory right still exists, so you can't get rid of them. But the rule of six gave the right of six people from different households in an area to demand an allotment from their local council. If there weren't enough,

Becs Frank (17:24):

Well, that still stands now.

Lisa Sykes (17:26):

Yeah, you can still do that. I mean, it's probably got more competition for what that land is used for, but if there's six people and there isn't enough allotments in the area, you can ask for one, which I think is pretty cool, isn't it? Very interesting.

Becs Frank (17:37):

Yeah.

Lisa Sykes (17:38):

Yeah. Anyway, it leads us nicely onto our read aloud moment. So put the kettle on because we're going to share one of our readers. What I treasure stories, and usually this is about a belonging bes, isn't it? But this time we're going to talk about someone who's talking about their allotment. What I treasure my patch by Sarah Reed. When we moved into our street, we were befriended by a family on the other side of the road, their garden laed, the local allotments and being committee owned and not local authority. There were animals, geese, turkeys, goats, chickens, pigs and sheep, along with the usual ramshackle sheds and greenhouses. Having been brought upon a farm, it felt like a little bit of home. When my kids were small, we enjoyed many hours with our friends eating cucumbers straight from the plant. So we put our names down for a patch, and when the kids were three and seven, we finally got offered one.

(18:38):

It had previously had pigs on it, so it was a real battle to tame. Sadly, the magical family time didn't really materialise. The kids saw it more as a punishment. And my husband turned out to be not that keen on getting his hands dirty. I persevered through several testing times, like when the polytunnel went for a tumble into the sheep paddock, or when I was stung by a bee and stomped on my glasses. And the time I fed the kids my prized broccoli with added creepy crawlies. But I also had many successors, sweet peas and sweet corn pumpkins, climbing beans and coches. I nearly gave up when depression made it just seem too big, too many weeds. But another friend and a neighbour came and joined me to share the plot. With her help, I started digging the area not yet tackled. Yes, I did hurt my back, but it really started to help with my mental health.

(19:29):

It became my place to escape. By the time lockdown arrived, it had become my sanctuary. I couldn't have got through without it. Now as my offspring and not kids anymore, they will on occasion come to see what I've been up to and they'll water and pick while I'm on holiday. I've learned to grow what will be eaten as well as flowers to cut and enjoy. I have many friends down at the allotments to chat to and compare notes with, but often I just want to be on my own tackling the slugs and bind weed. Some days it's a struggle to get out, but once their time gets away from me, I've been known to have to use my phone as a torch to get back home. Now it's may when my little specks of seeds have magically turned into plants with my window sills, overflowing with seedlings. I'm desperately waiting so that they can plant them out and my allotment will be filled with life again.

Becs Frank (20:26):

I really like that because it's such an honest account, isn't it? Yes. And the reality of having allotment, but she clearly has helped us so much and she loves so much, but it's hard work, isn't it? Oh, totally. Yeah. And all things, the kids she thought were going to get involved, but they didn't. Obviously

Lisa Sykes (20:42):

Just like having a dog obviously, where they, oh, please come have a dog. And then, oh, I don't want to walk it.

Becs Frank (20:47):

I was just going to say that exactly like getting a dog. But you can really see and feel the mental health benefits of having that space, that time on her own and the satisfaction of growing that she's had. Definitely. And of course

Lisa Sykes (20:58):

You get all the produce as well, don't you?

Becs Frank (21:00):

Yeah, yeah, exactly. All that lovely produce to bring home and eat and share. And of course all the advice is that we should eat more plant foods. We've got a piece actually coming out, haven't we, in the November issue?

Lisa Sykes (21:12):

Yeah.

Becs Frank (21:12):

It's an extract from a great book called Shrewd Food. There's so many great tips. I mean, as someone who writes about and speaks to different experts about food and nutrition all the time, you think you know it and you don't because we forget things and the device changes all the time and there's some really, really good tips in it, aren't there? So what sort of things

Lisa Sykes (21:30):

Is it saying, because I haven't actually read this yet, so I am looking forward to it.

Becs Frank (21:33):

I mean, there's all sorts of things like the habits, like when to eat certain things at what time.

Lisa Sykes (21:37):

Interesting

Becs Frank (21:37):

Things like why we should take a walk soon after a meal.

Lisa Sykes (21:40):

Oh, interesting. The passage

Becs Frank (21:41):

Arta theta. There's a reason for it because you get the kind of glucose swishing around your body after you've eaten, and that diverts it to your muscles.

Lisa Sykes (21:49):

Okay, so you should do some gentle exercise after eating.

Becs Frank (21:53):

Yes.

Lisa Sykes (21:54):

Rather than sit and let it digest in the old way of thinking. Yeah, no, it's better to go out for a walk.

Becs Frank (21:59):

Yeah,

Lisa Sykes (22:00):

Even a brisk walk.

Becs Frank (22:01):

Interesting. Which is good for the metabolism, good for bloating. And another thing that's good for getting things moving and filling you up is fibre, which we just don't eat enough of most of us.

Lisa Sykes (22:10):

So I always think when I think fibre, I think brand flakes keeps you regular. That kind of, I'm sure is really old fashioned. But do I have to eat brand flakes? I don't really want to eat brown flakes. What else can I

Becs Frank (22:22):

Have? Good news. You don't have to because there are lots of other ways we have much more tasty and interesting ways to get your fibre. But it's interesting because it's not necessarily what you would think. I mean, if I asked you where do you think, apart from brown flakes, foods that contain the most fibre, what would you say?

Lisa Sykes (22:41):

Veg maybe? I dunno you so much fibre in veg. Sorry, I'm really rubbish on this.

Becs Frank (22:47):

No, there is. No, you're right. Veg is a really good source of fibre. What I thought you might say, I'll come back to it, is brown bread.

Lisa Sykes (22:53):

Well, I was going to say that and I thought that might be a trick question.

Becs Frank (22:57):

Yeah, no, because that's what I think I would think. Whole meal bread, the advice is to have about 30 grammes of fibre a day at least.

Lisa Sykes (23:04):

Right? Okay. That sounds quite a lot actually. Yeah.

Becs Frank (23:07):

Well, yeah. So think about how many grammes of fibre do you think is in a slice of whole meal toast?

Lisa Sykes (23:12):

I dunno. Would you get half of it or something?

Becs Frank (23:15):

What? Like 15 grammes? Yeah, two

Lisa Sykes (23:17):

Grammes. Okay. I am going to be really rubbish of this. So you'd need to eat 15 slices of toast to get your fibre, which is clearly not good for you in loads of other ways, but yeah, okay.

Becs Frank (23:28):

Whole meal bread is good for you. Whole grains are good for you, but they're not necessarily the best source of fibre.

Lisa Sykes (23:32):

Okay. Try me on some more then try me on some more.

Becs Frank (23:34):

So back to your veg, thinking about something you might have a lot. What about a cup of green peas?

Lisa Sykes (23:39):

I imagine it's all right, but I can't imagine it's more than whole meal toast.

Becs Frank (23:43):

Nine grammes of fibre.

Lisa Sykes (23:45):

Seriously? Yeah. So nearly a third of your fibre can come from your green peas. So when you're going, oh, should we just have peas with that rather? Because you can't bother to do any veggies.

Becs Frank (23:55):

That's actually all right. Yeah, that is good, isn't it? You might expect this more, but thinking about legumes now, a cup of lentils or a cup of black beans.

Lisa Sykes (24:04):

Oh yes. Now I imagine they're quite good for you, aren't they? Oh, I dunno. You tell me. I don't know.

Becs Frank (24:09):

15 grammes, half your daily allowance. Wow, that's great, isn't it? If you put that into your stew, it's an easy way. It's something a bit more unexpected. Raspberries.

Lisa Sykes (24:17):

Eight grammes. Oh, you see, raspberries are my superfood.

Becs Frank (24:20):

Oh really?

Lisa Sykes (24:21):

I could definitely eat a cup of raspberries. Yeah,

Becs Frank (24:23):

No, you're probably doing quite well then on your fibre.

Lisa Sykes (24:25):

I quite often just buy raspberries. I love them. So they're full of fibre, are they?

Becs Frank (24:29):

Yeah. Eight grammes for a cup of raspberries. Well, there you go. So if you have a bowl of oats with some raspberries in it, you've got half your daily fibre.

Lisa Sykes (24:35):

Well that's the Scottish breakfast, isn't it? Isn't porridge so often? Nearly always the answer to any sort of dietary advice.

Becs Frank (24:42):

I've moved on to porridge. I know Autumn's coming when I start having porridge for breakfast again. Yeah.

Lisa Sykes (24:47):

Do you know what? Just talking about it now, I'm going to make some we're finished and put some raspberries in it.

Becs Frank (24:52):

Yeah, the basic advice is eat veggie with everything.

Lisa Sykes (24:54):

Yeah.

Becs Frank (24:55):

Whatever you're having, whatever meal you're having, you add some veg, add some nuts and seeds and beans or lentils. Just consciously kind of try and put more fibrous foods into your meals, feeds the microbiome. So it's really good for your gut. And actually people might think, oh, but it's going to make me bloated. But it can have the opposite effect. You might feel full people can kind of mistake feeling full for feeling bloated. So it is filling, but that's good. And then have your walk.

Lisa Sykes (25:19):

Yeah. Then you be sorted, which will give you enough energy to stock up your pantry. Lader stalk cupboards. Yes. We love this, don't we? Every time we run a picture of a lader in the magazine, people go, Ooh, there's something about that, isn't it?

Becs Frank (25:35):

Yeah, there's something really satisfying.

Lisa Sykes (25:37):

We've got lots of projects. We've done a herb drying rack project, which is a little bit of a woodwork thing, but I'd love the idea of having a rack hung from your ceiling with herbs drying on it, don't you?

Becs Frank (25:46):

Yeah, yeah. I do hang them for the funny places, but it's great to dry them out now. They won't be.

Lisa Sykes (25:53):

No, pretty soon you'll only have sage, rosemary, and bay. I try and keep Basel and coriander going, but they never

Becs Frank (26:00):

Last. No, no.

Lisa Sykes (26:02):

And things like oregano and thyme, once it gets really wet, they don't thrive very well, do they? So you've got to dry them in this climate anyway, haven't you?

Becs Frank (26:09):

Yeah, no, it's a great idea. And I think that project, it doesn't look too tricky. I think that's be a great thing to do.

Lisa Sykes (26:14):

There's something very satisfying isn't there, about putting jars of things in a ladder. It makes you feel all well in the world that you've got this s store cupboard of things.

Becs Frank (26:23):

Yeah, it does. Exactly. And also I feel like sorting out my S store cupboard, getting rid of some things, adding things. But it also made me think that I was doing this the other day and I was thinking actually harvest time wheels used to take produce to school. Did you used to do that for harvest festival assemblies and things?

Lisa Sykes (26:38):

Yeah, tin of beans, bag of rice.

Becs Frank (26:40):

Yeah, exactly.

Lisa Sykes (26:41):

This was before food banks of course, wasn't it? And now it's very widespread to give food to food banks and much needed, isn't it?

Becs Frank (26:48):

And especially at this time of year, I think it's getting colder. People's living costs are rising heating's going back on food. Banks will be busy and stocks will be lower. So I think if you're sorting out your pantry, it's a good time to have a think about that and maybe spare some things and pop them down to your local food. We really appreciate it.

Lisa Sykes (27:06):

Exactly. It should be a ritual of harvest, shouldn't it?

Becs Frank (27:09):

Yeah, yeah. No, exactly.

Lisa Sykes (27:10):

But just while we're on store cupboards though, because we did a good blog, which we'll put the link for about how to stock a store cupboard. And there's some surprising stuff in there about how long things can last potatoes or squashers if you keep them in the right place. And even the stuff in your freezer, it actually lasts quite a long time, but it's the taste that suffers after a certain time. It, it

Becs Frank (27:31):

Really does.

Lisa Sykes (27:32):

And I am definitely on the big sort out in the freezer weekend this weekend, and I'm going to be eating my way through some of it. My other half's really bad at eating stuff in the freezer and I'm home alone. So I am going to live off freezer food this weekend and I'm quite looking forward to having a root round in there to see what I can find.

Becs Frank (27:49):

That's great. Ease you up some more time to do other stuff as well. No preparation.

Lisa Sykes (27:53):

Exactly.

Becs Frank (27:54):

Exactly.

Lisa Sykes (27:54):

Now that's definitely what I'm doing.

Becs Frank (27:56):

No, it's really useful. We'll put the link to that in the show notes.

Lisa Sykes (27:59):

Definitely. Right now I've got a quiz for you now bes, we've done a little bit of prep on this because I made bes read the quiz in advance because it was a quiz we did actually it was during lockdown or just after lockdown when everyone became a whi using stuff in their stalker. But we're going to see what kind of stalker would cook. You are. Be alright. Okay, so question one Friday night and the cupboard is bare. What's on your menu? What are you going to rustle up for Friday night tea when you haven't done the shop yet?

Becs Frank (28:26):

Well, I think for me there's always going to be pasta in my store cup. It's a crowd pleaser, isn't it? So I can, I'd go for something with pasta, probably with a pass or I'll have some tinned tomatoes in there. I could rust up a tomato sauce and usually lurking in my fridge will be maybe some choto sausage.

Lisa Sykes (28:46):

Yes.

Becs Frank (28:47):

And that's quite an easy dish

Lisa Sykes (28:48):

I think every kitchen should have. It just lasts ages, doesn't it?

Becs Frank (28:52):

Yeah, it does.

Lisa Sykes (28:53):

Right. I'll mark that down as a particular answer. We'll ask a few more questions and see which kind of person you relate to. So how do you plan meals around what you have in your house

Becs Frank (29:04):

Now? I think I'll have to confess, I

Lisa Sykes (29:07):

Think you're a bit of a wing, aren't

Becs Frank (29:08):

You? I'm the wing it person. Yeah. So I do tend to buy stuff and have nice things in the cupboard and pantry. I might not go as far as one of the answers said, I would rescue my posh anchovies, an extra virgin olive oil before my partner in a house fire. There are certain things I feel like that about, but it wouldn't be posh anchovies in extra virgin olive oil. I don't like that.

Lisa Sykes (29:27):

Fair enough, fair enough. But yeah, no, I am in admiration because winging it is not what I can do. But no, I thought you'd say that because I know you're good at winging it,

Becs Frank (29:34):

But do you know what? It's funny, on that note, just to divert a bit, I heard someone telling a story the other day about their son had been planning to make in that kind of way. Or what can I make from what's in my fridge? He put his phone into the fridge, videoed the contents of his fridge, sent it out to chat GBT or whatever, and said, what can I make tonight? And that gave him a few recipes to choose. Fantastic. Yeah.

Lisa Sykes (29:56):

Love that. See, there's a good use for ai, right? Yeah, that's great. I love that. Okay, question three. What is your go-to tinned item?

Becs Frank (30:06):

This made me laugh. Well, everyone's going to say tinned tomatoes aren't. They

Lisa Sykes (30:09):

Are really? Yeah.

Becs Frank (30:09):

What about I like this does g and t and a tin count.

Lisa Sykes (30:15):

I like your style. I can see where we're going with this. There's a pattern emerging. And the fourth question is what's in your bottom freezer drawer?

Becs Frank (30:23):

This one was easy because I always have some pastry, always have a lock of puff pastry or something ready-made. Obviously not my own supermarket bought and some delicious ice cream if I've managed to hide it and not let everyone eat

Lisa Sykes (30:35):

It. You see, then you can make a tart, can't you? Yeah. Or something. Yeah, you

Becs Frank (30:39):

Can make a tart with

Lisa Sykes (30:40):

The pastry and you've got some ice cream. So a very last minute put. That's very good. Well, I'm pleased to tell you be that you did not come out as answer a Barbara from the Good Life. I

Becs Frank (30:49):

Quite like to be Barbara,

Lisa Sykes (30:50):

You did not come out as Second World War cookery Queen Marguerite Patton, and you weren't Jack Monroe frugal, sort of hipster style cooking. You're actually very ngel. Am I? So there you go. Yes, I'm fine with that. Yeah. Well, you like your shortcuts and you like your luxuries.

Becs Frank (31:07):

Yeah,

Lisa Sykes (31:08):

I have to say I love the thing we put about Nella though. We said Nigella shoes, the lard in Lader and puts the sexy pant into pantry. So there you go, max. So you brilliant.

Becs Frank (31:18):

Oh, we all need a bit of glamour in the kitchen.

Lisa Sykes (31:20):

And actually we've got a blog that we're going to share a link to, which we did a lessons from Nella because we were celebrating domestic goddesses in an earlier issue. And we all love Nella really, don't we?

Becs Frank (31:30):

Well, I've got quite a lot of Ngel cookbook. Do you know what? They were a real staple for me, particularly when the kids were younger.

Lisa Sykes (31:35):

Yeah.

Becs Frank (31:36):

But it's funny that isn't it. How do you find, you have cookbooks that you really go through phases of depending what stage of life you've been at.

Lisa Sykes (31:42):

Yes. When I lived in London River Cafe Cookbook when we were having people for dinner because it was really fashionable, but we couldn't afford to go there. But the cookbook was great. Yeah,

Becs Frank (31:52):

I had that too. We probably were cooking the same recipes.

Lisa Sykes (31:54):

Yeah, I know. And Nigel Slater for everyday meals, but we had a phase on, well we still use it actually quite a lot, but Hugh Erwitt is still because we were keeping hens and pigs and growing our own and we thought we were like mini small holders for a while. His cookbooks are great. We've got the family one, which we used loads. Yeah, no, they're good. My partner was ill last year and we had to think about diet a bit more and stuff. And so we turned to Anna Jones because obviously her cooking's vegetarian.

Becs Frank (32:21):

Yeah, her cookbooks are great.

Lisa Sykes (32:22):

Yeah. And actually, yeah, they're really interesting recipes. But yeah. How about you? What do you use for family cooking and stuff?

Becs Frank (32:27):

A real mix. I've got so many cookbooks, all of the above that you mentioned, basically Nigel often. I also think Anna Jones is great for making you think about cooking with vegetables and in a nons way if a friend were coming over and turned to do ot, I've got about four of his cookbooks, the more simple ones probably.

Lisa Sykes (32:46):

But that is funny, Bex, because you are the person who does OT and I'm the person who hopes I'm going to a dinner where they're doing ot. That's funny.

Becs Frank (32:56):

Well I hope that too because it's always delicious, isn't it? Yeah,

Lisa Sykes (33:00):

Yeah. No, my brother-in-law, he likes cooking and they always do it. I'm always really pleased when we get invited around there. But you've interviewed a few famous cooks as well, haven't you? Tom Carriage?

Becs Frank (33:10):

Yeah, Nadia Hussein. Yeah. They were both lovely people. I mean, I really admire them. I like their work, I love their recipes. I mean, Tom Carriage, he was such a nice guy. He's obviously incredibly driven, determined, very successful guy. But yeah, he was very warm. And we always ask in our wisdom interviews for their life lessons because obviously his interview is all about somebody's wisdom in parting their wisdom.

Lisa Sykes (33:33):

So what would Tom's wise words be then?

Becs Frank (33:35):

Well, I think about this often. Actually. He has his advisors just to say yes to everything. Our instinct might be like, oh no, I'm not going to be any good at that, or that might not work out. And he said, you never know what's going to happen, but the worst that can happen is it doesn't work out and you move on. So I think that's sound advice,

Lisa Sykes (33:50):

Very sound advice, isn't it? We often say, oh, you need to say no to things, but actually saying yes is more fun most of the time, isn't it?

Becs Frank (33:57):

Yeah, exactly. To

Lisa Sykes (33:58):

Trying new things. And how about Nadia? What did she have to say?

Becs Frank (34:02):

So Nadia is what a lovely woman. And she talked a lot about her family. She talked a lot about herself growing up and she said, as a mum, you need to let your children know that you are human, that you can make mistakes and then say sorry for them. And then they see that and then they will emulate that. So she was very honest about her experience as a child growing up, her anxiety. She's suffered from anxiety and panic attacks as an adult. And she was saying how different her daughter is from her and how she wishes she could have had more of what her daughter has at her age.

Lisa Sykes (34:28):

Oh, that's such a wise thing to know, isn't it? And to pass on. I love that when we ask people for, we want to know about them as people and what they've done in their lives. But I love the fact that they've always got some little nugget to share in our wisdom features. It's good.

Becs Frank (34:41):

Yeah, no, exactly.

Lisa Sykes (34:42):

Anyway, let's talk about cheese and wine because who doesn't love a bit of cheese and wine? So we've got a gathering in our October issue. It's an easy sell, isn't it? To get people to come around and say, come around. We'll have a cheese and wine party.

Becs Frank (34:54):

Good idea though, because it's not as complicated as making a full three-course meal, is it? Not that we ever say people should do that,

Lisa Sykes (35:00):

But it's quite nice to have a little bit of education in it. It do a few tasting notes, maybe discuss it a bit like a book club or something like that. But I can guarantee it'll end up coming down to what is your favourite cheese will be the point of discussion, won't it?

Becs Frank (35:14):

I love all cheese and I find it really hard to think about what my favourite cheese is. It really depends on the time of year through the summer. I've loved all the garra, the halmi, the cheeses that you can add to salads, manchego, I love that. Yeah, manchego. Yeah. And then you move into this time of year a bit of more of a cheddar or a hard mountain cheese, a compte I love. So I dunno, I find it really

Lisa Sykes (35:36):

Hard. Are you loyal to cheddar then? Because it's down your way really, isn't it? It's not very far from you.

Becs Frank (35:41):

Yeah, no, exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

Lisa Sykes (35:43):

Yeah. I love a wensleydale and the Cheshire for a mild crumbly cheese, but for me really, the more they taste like a farm yard, the better. I want it to almost smell the manure. There's something about it.

Becs Frank (35:55):

You want it to stink out the fridge.

Lisa Sykes (35:57):

Yeah, I think so. I think so. I dunno if I told you about this, but we've adopted divine, a new vineyard just down the road from us. Oh

Becs Frank (36:04):

Yes you did. How's that

Lisa Sykes (36:05):

Going? Well, we just had our first bottle last week. Have you

Becs Frank (36:07):

Actually? How nice.

Lisa Sykes (36:09):

Yeah, no, it's really good. So it's Abacus scrape for those that know about these things. So it's not super minerally, but it's very fruity. It's gooseberry elder flour. But I have to say, drinking it, we felt like we were the ones who tended the vines. It was quite special. That sounds great. We got our little name on the vine and everything hanging from the bush. Well, everything

Becs Frank (36:30):

Too. I bet that would be a really nice wine to have with a nice flavour. Some cheese as well. Yes. No, I did

Lisa Sykes (36:35):

Eat it with some cheese.

Becs Frank (36:36):

Obviously there's advice in that feature isn't there? About which wines? I'd like to reel it off now, but I actually can't remember which wines to have for the rich cheeses. No,

Lisa Sykes (36:43):

I think being knowledgeable about wine is one of those skills that I would like to learn in my life at some point.

Becs Frank (36:49):

Me too, me too.

Lisa Sykes (36:50):

I kind of know what I like and I know a little bit, but not very much at all really. Anyway, let's move on to something that I feel more comfortable with, which is gardens. You know the last flowers. This is where I'm going to show you my posey. Becks actually.

Becs Frank (37:03):

Oh great. Come on.

Lisa Sykes (37:05):

The last flowers are das hydrangeas. I've got a bright pink DA that I've put right outside my back door. It's just in a pot.

Becs Frank (37:11):

You're so lucky. I haven't managed to grow any das.

Lisa Sykes (37:13):

I find they do better in pots, otherwise they get a bit soggy.

Becs Frank (37:16):

Yeah,

Lisa Sykes (37:16):

It's really cheering. I've realised that what I should do every season is stand something right opposite my back door. So I see it the moment I come out. Then you've got something each time you leave the house, haven't you? But anyway, here you go. I'm going to show you my posey that I've just been collected in the garden. Oh,

Becs Frank (37:32):

That's so pretty.

Lisa Sykes (37:33):

I don't think that I have any flowers really. I am more of a shrubs and it's quite a natural garden mine. But I've got teasel, I've got these ones, right? They're like little purple lilac, delicate flowers. And they're actually flowers off lemon balm are they? That was just growing in the garden. And then there's some orig that gone into flowers as well. They're very delicate. Some big fat hawthorn berries and some teases and some sedum.

Becs Frank (37:59):

Really nice. Yeah,

Lisa Sykes (38:01):

It kind of like it's a little autumn

Becs Frank (38:03):

Thing. I'm going to give that a go. I love going into the garden and having, do you know what, since we've been talking, it was pouring with rain when we started and now it's bright blue skies. There you go. I'm going to do that after we talk and go get outside.

Lisa Sykes (38:15):

I think what's interesting is you think you need proper flowers, cooked flour patch and you don't really No. And Constance Spry, who was this pioneering florist, she used to make poses. They would've bind weed in and brambles and things from the veg plot. So she uses like chard or kale and p and bean foliage or fruit tree branches in blossom. Yeah. You've just got

Becs Frank (38:35):

To be a bit

Lisa Sykes (38:36):

Creative, haven't you? Yeah. Anything that takes you fancy, go try it. I know. I'm definitely going to go for that. The message really is don't give up on your garden for winter, isn't it?

Becs Frank (38:44):

Yes.

Lisa Sykes (38:45):

Which we've got a feature coming up in November issue exactly about that. Because I just think a lot of us sort of mentally pack up in the garden, don't we this time of year and then meander back out there, come early spring.

Becs Frank (38:56):

So get the fire pit out, get the garden cinema out. Just make the most of it.

Lisa Sykes (39:00):

Exactly. So right, we've reached the point golden hour activities, just to explain if people haven't heard this before. So all through this golden day season, we are choosing a golden hour activity that we're setting an intention to do. And I know what mine's going to be and it's not something we talked about today actually, but it is something we've talked about earlier in this season because the 1st of October, which is coming up, is Kora, Maggie, the Japanese tradition of swapping your bedding and clothes from summer to winter. And I am going to do that. I'm going to do that this weekend. That's as well as sorting my freezer out, which I've, you've got a busy weekend already mentioned. I know this home alone, weekend's turning. Good job. You're not cooking but folding old stuff, shaking it out, airing. I've discovered my iron has got a mis setting on it, which who knew? So that's my weekend. Great.

Becs Frank (39:48):

I love that. Mine's something I've already done, but I think I'm going to do it well, I'm definitely going to do it again is I had my first fire evenings have been getting a bit chillier, haven't they? Yes. I dunno why we were resisting. Just probably I've got to go and get the logs and are they going to be damp anyway? Got it sorted, lit the fire. Oh, and it was lovely.

Lisa Sykes (40:06):

Nice.

Becs Frank (40:07):

It really brought the family together.

Lisa Sykes (40:08):

It's even better because it's usually before you've put the heating on, isn't it? So you've just got this one cosy room. Yeah. Nice, lovely. Right. So that's our golden days harvest all gathered in. But before we hunker down for winter, we're going to ramble next week in our last episode this season.

Becs Frank (40:24):

Gorgeous.

Lisa Sykes (40:25):

I know Becks and I are going to be joined by our other regular co-host, Joe Tinsley. And we're going to meet in Bath where Becks lives to go on one of your favourite local walks, aren't we?

Becs Frank (40:34):

Yes. I'm really looking forward to taking you guys around my patch

Lisa Sykes (40:38):

And we're going to be noticing the small stuff, watching Autumn happen, looking at the views and ling along a canal.

Becs Frank (40:44):

Let's hope it just doesn't rain. I know. And

Lisa Sykes (40:46):

They call

Becs Frank (40:46):

This work, right? Bex? Yeah, yeah, exactly. And a nice lunch I think, don't you?

Lisa Sykes (40:52):

Oh, definitely. So everything we've mentioned today, as always is in our show notes, which you'll find on the app where you listen to your podcast. And if you like the sound of our magazine, you can try a subscription and get the new October hug issue straight away with an immediate start. And the details for that are in our show notes too. So I hope you've enjoyed spending the golden days with us. We'll see you next week and thanks for listening.