May Days - Episode 3 - TONIC

Join editor of The Simple Things magazine Lisa Sykes and wellbeing editor Rebecca Frank as they appreciate summer foods and sensory walks, explore the medicinal benefits of garden herbs and rediscover the pleasure of handwriting a letter.

If you are in the UK, you can try an immediate start subscription to the The Simple Things and receive the current issue straight away. Or buy current and back issues here

Thanks to our sponsor Titanic Belfast. Find out more and how to visit at titanicbelfast.com and on Instagram @titanicbelfast 

Editing and music by Arthur Cosslett

In the May issue (167) available to buy here

Berry Shrub and other recipes from Michelle Tansley’s cottage garden in our new series, A Good Life

Switching on the senses – discover the moodboosting benefits of sensory walks

Bloom scrolling – self edit your feeds for a more fulfilling online experience

In the June issue (168) available to buy from 29 May here 

Weekend project – make your own herbal bug spray and natural after sun balm

Cake in the house - Elderflower and strawberry tart

Read our favourite entries from our midsummer microfiction competition. 

Find out more about National Flash Fiction Day on 13 June nationalflashfictionday.co.uk

On the blog

Spring beans on toast – broad beans and ricotta with elderflower dressing recipe

Pea cheesecake recipe

Rhubarb and sweet cicely shrub with Aperol recipe 

Natural first aid for bee, wasp and jelly fish stings taken from The Natural First Aid Handbook by Brigitte Mars (Storey Publishing)

Elderflower toner 

Chickweed Ice cube aftersun 

Letters that changed the world 

To read

The Correspondent by Virginia Evans (Penguin Books)

From previous issues available to buy here

The joy of writing a letter April (167)

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:13

Hi, welcome to our Small Ways to Live Well podcast from the Simple Things. It's a monthly magazine all about taking time to live well. I'm Lisa Sykes, the editor, and today is episode three of our May Days and Summer Afternoons season. We're calling this one tonic because there's simply no tonic like the promise of summer. My co-host is our well-being editor, Bex Frank, and we're going to be enjoying the first seasonal foods of the season, learning about herbal remedies and some natural first aid, and then we're going on some sensory walks to really appreciate this gorgeous time of year. And this season's supported by Titanic Belfast, which is a self-guided visitor experience that tells the story of the famous ship on the original site where she was built and launched. And there are interactive galleries where you can experience the sights and sounds and smells of the ship. And we're going to be sharing a few of the artifacts and stories during this episode, but you can find out more at Titanicbelfast.com or follow them on Instagram at Titanic Belfast. So, Bex, I I like the word tonic. It feels really invigorating, doesn't it? Yeah.

Becs Frank 1:16

Hello, me too. Yeah. I know it's great. I looked it up, actually, the definition of it, because I was thinking, I know how it makes me feel. It feels like it's something that's going to make me feel better. So what and actually that is what it means. It's something that invigorates, strengthens, restores health and energy. So no wonder we like it.

SPEAKER_01 1:36

Well, there you go. And actually, summer's a kind of tonic in itself, isn't it? You know, summer does all of those things for us. Or maybe it's even just the promise of summer. The anticipation is the tonic, isn't it? Yeah.

Becs Frank 1:47

Yeah, it is. And the light and the sunshine. Definitely. And I think it's a bit of a it's kind of about what we do, and but it's also about what we eat, isn't it? And the and all the foods that we've suddenly got at our fingertips, all the seasonal foods that feel like a tonic.

SPEAKER_01 2:01

I know, because the hungry gap is is officially over, isn't it? And and that's only if you're growing your own. But everywhere in the shops now you get homegrown strawberries, asparagus, peas and beans, and and it's just it's you don't need to make a special effort to find them anymore, do you? No. Or pay the pay a fortune for them. Yeah, absolutely. And of course they taste better because usually they're more local at this time of year, aren't they?

Becs Frank 2:25

Yeah, yeah. So I always have a go at growing um a couple of these. Peas and beans are ones that I've had in my and and strawberries, but not at the moment. I think my favourite are Jersey royal potatoes.

SPEAKER_01 2:36

Oh, yeah. With some broad beans in. And I do take the time to pod them because they just taste so delicious. And I like little summery potato salad with broad beans and Jersey royals and mint, you know. Yeah, delicious. Fresh mint.

Becs Frank 2:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:50

Yeah. Do you remember that tea meeting we had um when we were planning the summer issues? Yes. And we we had to pick the foods, didn't we, that best summed up the season. Yeah. Which was a very mouthwatering session just before lunch. The favourite, what was it? It was broad beans on toast with elderflower dressing.

Becs Frank 3:06

Yeah. Almost all of us chose that unknowingly chose the same recipe, didn't we? Um yeah, so it was a toast kind of spread with it was really simple. Ricotta, in fact, the recipe's on the blog, ricotta cheese on the toast, with and then you obviously you cook your broad beans lightly and then pod them, and then they're they're just placed on top, all beautiful, green, fresh, and then yeah, some some fresh mint and and also with a really lovely little touch of some chai flowers. Because this you can just go to town with nice little garnishers, can't you?

SPEAKER_01 3:36

Uh edible flowers and yes, I know because I I make this a lot in the summer, just ricotta or feta, a bit of herb, yeah, and the squeeze of lemon. And it feels like you've moved to a different country. You know, you feel like you just live somewhere else, don't you? Especially if you can sit outside and eat it. Definitely. And actually, you mentioned it was on the blog, and we'll make sure in the show notes there's all the links to we've got various blog things we're going to mention today, and also books you can read and that sort of thing. So they'll all be in the show notes that accompany on the app. Do you grow broad beans then?

Becs Frank 4:06

I have grown broad beans, yeah. And they're easy, and peas. Everyone likes peas, but broad beans in my family not everyone likes. So, and but also there are I do you said you don't mind putting some you because you always do have to remove that sec the skin after you've taken them out of the obvious big pod, the furry pod. Um, but does that depend on how big they are?

SPEAKER_01 4:24

Yeah, so this I I always find that the beginning of summer like this, you because they they're really small, the beans, they haven't got harder. And so you don't need to cook them for very long at all. They're and and if you keep them quite al dente, yes, they pop out the pod when you when you squeeze it rather than go all mushy. That's right. You've got to be really careful not to overcook them, haven't you? Definitely. They go a bit grey. I like the way they look in the garden as well. That you know, there's pretty flowers and slightly purplish blotches on the stems, don't they? Yeah. The thing I always forget is because actually, apparently, the what you really should do is sew them to overwinter. So if you put them in in October and November, yeah, they're then ready to harvest like a month earlier than if you sow them in the spring because they germinate apparently only five degrees. And I always forget in the autumn.

Becs Frank 5:13

Yes, me too. So that's I've not done that.

SPEAKER_01 5:15

Because I'm never thinking about planting stuff then. Yeah, I know. So I'm I'm gonna make a note on my calendar this year to do that because they're so good. And and you don't want to have to wait for them, do you?

Becs Frank 5:26

No, there are a few jobs, aren't there, in the kitchen that you don't get kind of get bored of that. I say I I can't I can't be bothered to peel shallots. It just takes so long. It's so it's like, I'm sorry, an onion will do, especially if I'm cooking for a lot of people. Yes, I know they're a lovely flavour, but what a faff. Yeah, yeah. Depends on how many people I'm cooking for, but I definitely wouldn't bother with a load, a whole bowl of shallots, whereas I could sit and pod a bowl of peas or beans really happily.

SPEAKER_01 5:57

Yeah, yeah. No, podding peas is so therapeutic, isn't it? It's just I I I actually buy them on purpose to pod them. And and even and it was the one job I could even get like the teenagers to do. Do you know what I mean? Even they like doing it.

Becs Frank 6:11

It's a calming, soothing, it's a the ultimate kind of mindful activity, I think. And you do you often do it outside, I think, or or in a sunny window or something.

SPEAKER_01 6:19

Yeah, on a doorstep or something, yeah. That's the dream, isn't it? Yeah. Do you remember that pea cheesecake we had, which is also on the blog? Yeah, it was so interesting because it uses everything but the pod, doesn't it? And I've always fancied making that one.

Becs Frank 6:33

Yeah, it does, and you and it's actually made the base because you might be thinking, how can we use a pea cheesecake? That sounds weird. Yeah, but it's not a sweet base, it's an oatcake base. So like a cheesecake where you use digestive biscuits. And then obviously you still use the cheese, and peas and the cheese are, as we've just said, are natural kind of partners, aren't they?

SPEAKER_01 6:50

We got a sweet tart in the June issue, actually, elderflower and strawberry. And I have to say, it didn't, I looked at the recipe and I thought, because I I might confess here, I've never made a tart or a quiche, right? I I've just never done it. Yeah, I I think it's because I'm not a confident pastry maker, and and I keep saying this is the year I'm going to make. You can use shop bought pastry though. I know, it's true. It the thing is, I kind of I kind of feel that's cheating a bit.

Becs Frank 7:19

I think we're okay with cheating. Aren't we all about slapdash? You can use your own, but also it isn't that difficult.

SPEAKER_01 7:25

No, I I can make short crisp pastries. Well, because I make mince pies and stuff, you know, it's not, yeah. But I just I think it's the blind baking thing that I've always been a bit scared about, you know, that you've got to bake it first. But you're right, if you made one that's got a biscuit base, you actually don't even need to do a pastry, do you?

Becs Frank 7:41

No. Interestingly, you should say that about the tart that's coming up in the issue because we've been when we were talking about this, weren't we? We was like, actually, I was thinking, well, if that is that a tart or is that is that a flan? Because we and what's the difference? And where does a quiche come into it?

SPEAKER_01 7:59

Yeah, I know. Because when I was little, right, and I think it might be a northern thing, my mum would make a quiche and we'd call it, Are we having a flan? Yeah. And you know, with the with the one of those um white dishes that had the crinkly edges round that everybody had in like the 70s. But that's not correct, is it?

Becs Frank 8:16

A flan's something entirely different. I think, yeah, I think you might be right, because I think uh I heard it called a flan as well, and I think that maybe was just a you know a kind of loose term. So I looked it up apparently, and and I'm sure that there'll be some disagreements on this. A tart is uh something with a pastry case with a defined crust, right? Um, shallow, so like the one we've got in the in the in the issue. The filling is firm and sliceable. So we're thinking like a lemon tart or a fruit tart, or it could be a savoury tart, like a quiche. Okay. But a flan, yeah, it the the official kind of um definition. Well, it depends on region, is that it has a more of a custard wobbly filling.

SPEAKER_01 8:55

But you see, you can still slice that, can't you? But maybe it's more less likely to stay as a slice.

Becs Frank 9:01

Yes, yes. And in and in Spain it would be like more like a sort of baked custard dessert, like a creme caramel type thing. Yes, because in tappa's restaurants they call that a flan, don't they? Um on the menu. Or like our custard tarts, but then that's for the tart. So yeah, it is confusing. It is and then cheesecake is cheesecake's much more easy to uh to define, obviously, creamy cheesy fillings with a biscuit base. And then there are other things you know that go completely off piste as well. Well, hang on, a quick question though. Um quiche is a savoury tart then.

SPEAKER_01 9:31

A quiche is a fake savoury tart. Okay, so not a flan at all. No, so that was obviously nonsense.

Becs Frank 9:37

No, although you can get a wobbly quiche, can't you? And then does that go into flan territory?

SPEAKER_01 9:42

I love a wobbly quiche when it when it's almost it's almost like a souffle if it's a thick one, isn't it? And it's nice. Oh, I wish I could cook like that, I have to say.

Becs Frank 9:50

But I have to say, quichas are not difficult to cook, and they are so much nicer when or when you go out and have a nice homemade quiche, you can tell, can't you? Yeah, definitely. No, very interesting. Um, so who knew? Tarte, quiche, flan. Exactly. All different things. Right. A great way to use that, use those seasonal ingredients because they just go perfectly, don't they? The spring summer veg with the cheese and the and the fresh herbs. Yeah. Nice. But another way for us to use up the fresh herbs is in a shrub. Oh, yeah. Do you know do you know what a shrub is?

SPEAKER_01 10:22

Well, yeah, I do because we featured them a few times, but the first time we featured it, I had no idea what it is. Yeah. But is it is that right? It's fruit, sugar, but the thing that makes it a shrub is the vinegar that goes in it as well.

Becs Frank 10:34

Yeah. So traditionally, and this these date, these shrubs date back to 17th, 18th century, they were used and still are used as a way of preserving fruits. So you obviously the vinegar is a kind of way of so you cook the fruit in the in the vinegar, and then it obviously you can then keep, you make this sort of quite savoury. So the difference between that and a syrup is it's got um the vinegar gives it a more complex, a bit more of a sort of savoury flavour. Okay. And then you and with the addition of herbs often, and then you've got this kind of syrupy shru kind of liquid that you can then use with sparkling water, you can use it in cocktails, um, and and they keep for several months.

SPEAKER_01 11:09

We did one on the blog that was called a rhubarb and sweet Sicily Shrub, which I just love even saying that, you know? Um I mean sweet Sicily is a herb. I think you can forage for it, but you can certainly grow it as well, can't you? Yeah. But there's one in the Mayor shoe as well, isn't there? Yeah.

Becs Frank 11:23

Yes, I was just gonna say there's one in the Mayors, it's in our new series, isn't it? In the In The Good Life, and is using frozen blackberries from obviously from the year before, which she's defosted, and then she she mixes it um with maple syrup and apple cider vinegar, which sounds delicious, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_01 11:38

It does. And there's something really nice about using last year's produce that you've bothered to freeze, isn't there? Yeah, you know, it feels really resourceful and like I mean, what I'd really love, right? You know, forget your chutneys and your jams in your pantry. Although, as I've said before, I would like to be a jam maker, really. I'd like to have an array of cocktail syrups already prepared, you know, that that you're kind of they're already in your fridge. So when you think, oh, wouldn't it be nice to have a bay gimlist or something?

Becs Frank 12:07

You could just go to your fridge and sort them. Or a really nice sum, you know, summer afternoon non-alcoholic quencher. Yeah, a quencher.

SPEAKER_01 12:15

That's a great word. Um, but a shrub feels like it doesn't you more good than a cocktail, though, because obviously that isn't alcoholic, is it? But it doesn't, it does feel like a drink that's been around for a long time, doesn't it? I bet it was originally made by some sort of wise woman with herbs, you know, who like cured the village, you know. Yes, with her with her whole pantry of shrubs. I know, because that's the thing, herbal remedies and tonics, they nearly came always from a woman that knew a lot about herbs, really, didn't it?

Becs Frank 12:45

Well, what about the film Hamlet? I mean, and the book Hamlet, sorry, we've having just seen the film, the film's fresh in my mind. I mean, that's foraging in the forests, in the gardens, and she was that wise woman.

SPEAKER_01 12:55

Well, you've been talking to the the person who advised the film, haven't you? She was like the herbal consultant on the film, wasn't she?

Becs Frank 13:01

Yeah. That's right. Dr. Kim Walker. Yeah, so she's a uh she's a herbalist and a consultant and advised on the film. She's amazing, isn't it? That what a great job. Yeah, I know.

SPEAKER_01 13:11

So we I think we're gonna we're gonna be doing a piece later on about herbal remedies, aren't we? In the uh that's later on in the summer, I think, isn't it? Probably August time.

Becs Frank 13:18

Yes, but we've done quite a lot, haven't we? Yeah over the years on the different all, you know, but also that you know it doesn't have to be so kind of complicated or mystical, does it? We've often got these herbs growing in our garden. Yes, or we can find them when we're out walking and and we can not just use them for cooking, we can use them for medicinal benefits as well.

SPEAKER_01 13:37

Absolutely, absolutely. Because we I know we've got a herbal bug spray going into June. And you know, it it's a combination of essential oils and herbs, but it's it's simple things, you know, rosemary, citronella, peppermint, eucalyptus, yeah, lavender, witch hazel, you know, and and that each ingredient's chosen for its ability to repel different bugs, isn't it?

Becs Frank 13:58

Which makes a lot of sense. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And there's an aftersun balm as well, and that actually has the flowers in it. So that's got lavender, calendula, arnica flowers. Oh, I didn't know arnica was a flower. I I I hadn't really thought about it. Yeah. Yeah, which you then distill in the water and then you kind of mix it with the the different ingredients, the oils and things, and you heat it very gently and then that and let it set, and that becomes like a really nice, sort of soothing balm. Very satisfying to use natural ingredients, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 14:25

Because we ages ago we did a we did a series from this book. Do you remember the natural first aid handbook? It was called. It's by Brigitte Mars, and I'll put the link to it on our notes. But we looked at different things, how you could cure them with these um, you know, but it's actual first aid. So one of the ones that's actually it's on the blog, this one, is bee and wasp stings. Yes, which of course, you know, happen to lots of people in the summer, don't they? And so after you've extracted the stinger, you know, you wash it with soap and water, but then the relief side of it, you use mud and a freshly chewed plantain leaf. Amazing. So you just chew it up to macerate it, presumably, and then mix it with some mud, or you can use baking soda with vinegar or onion as well, is good on the wound.

Becs Frank 15:11

But if you're out and about, you could probably do that, couldn't you? Yeah. And because also it is the it does the the pain of the sting does last for quite a long time.

SPEAKER_01 15:18

I know, so you're just trying to relieve that, aren't you? Yeah, and you know, obviously, if you've got lavender oil, that also is good. But you know, when you're out and about you where you get stung by a bee, you're not likely to have those ingredients to hand, are you?

Becs Frank 15:30

So I thought that was great. We always had um a little bottle of lavender oil, and it was her it was her answer to everything, you know. You know, if you've got a sting, if you've got a spot, if you've got whatever it is, you you know, just a few drops of lavender oil, sort it out.

SPEAKER_01 15:43

Wow, that's really ahead of its time though, because you know, this we you're probably talking about the 80s, where it just wasn't a big thing to use herbal remedies, was it? But that the one I also liked was the jellyfish stings. That's also on the blog, so we'll put the link for that too. But you scrape off any tentacles that are left, but you can use a credit card for that, which is quite handy, as something that just got a sharp edge, so you and then you rinse it, but not with fresh water, because that can trigger further stings, presumably from the remnants of the tentacle. That's so interesting. Use seawater or urine to neutralize the sting.

Becs Frank 16:18

Yeah, so that is actually true. Yeah. That's not an old wives' tale.

SPEAKER_01 16:22

No, I I mean, I guess it uh yeah, they presumably because it's slightly acidic, it maybe neutralises the sting. And lavender oil again. Yeah.

Becs Frank 16:31

See, your mum knows all this stuff, doesn't she? And aloe vera juice, I think it said as well, which and it was very soothing. Have you ever used it um, you know, the the gel straight from an aloe vera plant? You know, it's it's amazing, isn't it? Yes.

SPEAKER_01 16:43

I used it once in the desert. It was um I I we'd gone to Arizona and I had prickly heat quite badly because I always get it and when I get too hot. And there was this plant that was already kind of snapped, so I took the leaf off and squeezed some out, and it was so good, it was so soothing.

Becs Frank 17:01

Yeah, it's incredible, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 17:03

We've got another um chickweed ice cube after sun. So you basically put a chickweed into some ice cubes, freeze them, and then you let that sit onto your thing. But yeah, I think you use aloe vera in that as well. So it's I think that's really interesting. But I just the idea of putting a frozen ice cube onto burnt sunburnt skin's a really good one, isn't it? And then it just melts, yeah.

Becs Frank 17:24

Yeah, it's really good. And and so there's loads of things that you can just you can do simply and at home. But have you ever actually seen a herbalist?

SPEAKER_01 17:31

I met one recently, right? We went to we went to Nice and the hotel we were staying in had an apothecary, and it the shop it was such a beautiful room. It was like imagine going into sort of Olivan's wooden shop in Harry Potter with all the drawers, only not quite as mad. Oh, amazing, really. She made these teas, and you know what? Sometimes you just meet someone and you have a real connection with them. And we ended up having a really long chat, but we're discussing menopause, and I've got a knee injury, and I was saying, Oh and was she French? Yeah, she was French. So being French, we also had poetry and philosophy and the universe thrown in as well. And it was I could have sat there for hours, honestly, but she she was one of these people that I genuinely felt she was a healer, not in a kind of laying on hands way, but she was just really wise and knowledgeable. And so I ended up buying a couple of teas off her, and I have to say does she personally recommend these for you? Yeah, so one of them is is called for comfort and articular, which is you know, joints, and I translated these on because the instructions are obviously all in French and the ingredients are all in French, and the ingredients of this one is leaves of blackcurrant, birch, and horse tail, and it's got ash in it and rosemary, but something called Queen of the Close that I've no idea what that is, because I I think maybe the translations got a bit lost or something. Interesting. But I'm now, and you know me, Bex, right? Herbal teas have never been a massive part of my life. No, you're you're a builder's girl, aren't you? I'm a Yorkshire tea girl, aren't I? You know, but I'm now I'm now drinking like at least a few cups of this a day instead of a tea. Are you finding it has an effect? Well, the other one I've got is a calming tea. Yeah. And I think it part of it is the ritual of making it, of course, because they're dried proper leaves that I have to infuse for five minutes and then strain them, and you know, and so some of that just slows you down and rather than just slapping the kettle on, isn't it? So I think it's really interesting. How about you? I mean, you you do like a herbal tea, don't you?

Becs Frank 19:26

Yes, and but and but much uh you know, much prefer a fresh one. I do buy herbal tea bags as well, and there are some great ones, but I do agree with you the ritual of infusing your own, if you take the time to do that, it's just and then with a lovely teapot and just sitting down and taking that moment is lovely. Really nice. But yeah, I've tried all sorts of teas. In fact, one of the loveliest things we've ever had was we have a holistic vet because our dog has got lots of problems with her joints from birth. So we've we she's had this holistic vet. We also had an older dog, um Alfie, and he died. But I was seeing the holistic vet for Lola, she knew about Alfie. Alfie died, and she sent me a pack of her own blend of grief tea, which I remember just found so touching at the time. And um, that was a combination of rose and lavender, chomile flowers, skull cap, and lemon balm, which all have either kind of emotional or um kind of soothing, calming kind of properties. And it was for both, it was for us and for the dog. Oh wow. So there was a dosage instruction for you know, adults drink as many cups a day as you like, and then dog was a specific dose. And so we used to kind of try and get Lola to drink because Lola was really sad when Alfie died. I know that sounds ridiculous, but the dogs do grieve as well.

SPEAKER_01 20:36

No, no, they miss, they miss it, don't they? They miss another dog, yeah.

Becs Frank 20:40

Um, did you would she drink it? Well, she wouldn't drink it in her water bowl. Okay. Avet suggested just sort of sort of pouring a little bit onto her into her food. That's nice, that's lovely.

SPEAKER_01 20:51

I really like that. So I've still got my pack of grief tea. A teaspoon of herbs goes a long way, doesn't it? So I think my teas that are quite big bags are gonna last me quite a while. But I should I'm definitely um going to explore more herbal teas, I think. But actually, our read aloud story this episode is from it it's a it's a little bit different. Instead of being one that we commissioned for the issue, we did a competition last June, you probably remember, and we asked readers to write a 300-word piece of microfiction on the theme The Longest Day. And we're about to We had a lot of entries, didn't we? Yeah, hundreds of entries, yeah. So we we we're about to publish not the winners, but the ones we liked, the ones we really liked. But this one is called Time, as in the Herb, so it feels quite appropriate to talk about now. Time by Kay Dunworth. Time Basil Ground Coriander, best before June. Well we're in June. Oh, June 2023. Chuck that. Rosemary, margarine. Marjoram? How on? Another margarine. Polly couldn't think what she'd ever used margarine for. Never mind why she needed three jars of the stuff. She tossed two onto the discard pile and kept one for luck. She stuck her hand up to the top shelf, stretching onto her tiptoes. I can't look at the clock again until this cupboard is clear, she told herself. She retrieved a packet of bread sauce. Christmas 2023, she reckoned. She squinted at the pack. No, even worse, 2022. She was appalled. She was sure she'd clean this cupboard not that long ago. It was a go-to distraction activity. As she bent forward to throw the packet onto the pile, she caught the clock in her peripheral vision. Don't look. This time she said it out loud, as if publicly scolding herself would give her more willpower. Bay leaves, rather withered, sea salt flakes, bicarbonate of soda, oops, with a hole in the bottom. Chuck that she dusted the residue off her hands. He must be here soon, surely. It felt like it should be any minute, but the gaps between the minutes felt like hours, minutes and hours counted down in dusty jars and packets of condiments. One final sweep of the top shelf, and her hand caught against a small box. She flicked it to the edge, catching it as it fell. Jelly, orange jelly cubes, his favourite. She felt the tears gather, and blinking them away, looked at the clock in defiance, staring in frustration at the hour she almost missed the soft opening of the door behind her. Hello, mum, he said, nodding towards the bundle he held. Meet your granddaughter. And they share prompts for you to try. And you can get loads more information on National Is this all on their website? Yeah, National Flash Fiction Day dot co.uk. So we'll put a link to that as well. But I I'm definitely going to tune into that day this year because I think it'd be really interesting. Just several, you know, random stories delivered to you.

Becs Frank 24:35

I I love how there are so many, most of us or a lot of us like to, you know, we've got a story in us, haven't we? And however you choose to kind of express that. There are there are a lot of people, there are a lot of writers, aren't there? You don't have to be a writer as a job. No. Whether it's creative writing, but also letter writing. Yes. What a wonderful thing to do.

SPEAKER_01 24:55

And then because she can you can do that even if you don't think of yourself as a creative writer, right? It's a form of communication.

Becs Frank 25:01

Yeah, and a form of expressing yourself that is very different from speaking to somebody, isn't it? It's true. In our April issue, we had a lovely reflection um feature written by a writer, one of our writers, Victoria Moore. And she was writing about um how she's sort of rediscovered her love of writing letters, which was inspired by uh signing up to something called the Sunday Letter Project. I love this idea. Yeah. Yeah. It's it's basically a kind of movement to get people to write more letters and but in doing so, signing up and pledging to write one letter a week on a Sunday. Which doesn't sound too hard, does it?

SPEAKER_01 25:36

It doesn't sound too onerous, that.

Becs Frank 25:38

No, and it doesn't have to be a long letter, it could be a card, it could be a sentence. It doesn't, you know, you don't have we're not talking it has, you know, every week you have to write somebody a very long, meaningful letter. But it's just an encouragement to get people to connect in this way again because you know, in a world that's kind of becoming increasingly disconnected, yes, it's a great way to to kind of to to encourage that.

SPEAKER_01 25:59

And I can't I can't remember the last time I got a personal letter or or you know, I got a birthday card, but they're not quite the same thing, are they? But but and actually they're good for you, you feel good sending it and people feel good receiving it, don't they? So it's exactly, yeah.

Becs Frank 26:15

There aren't many things that are kind of symbiotic like that, are they? That make it they're as good for you, you as they are for the the person you're you're sending it to. And you're right, it doesn't have to be a full letter, does it? It can be just a postcard. Yeah, well, actually, in the piece Victoria's saying that it she has um inspired by this, decided to take all her meaningful correspondence offline. So yeah, no more kind of just oh I'll pop someone an email or a or a or send shall I call them or shall I shall I write or shall I send them a WhatsApp note? It's like no, I'm not gonna do that. I'm going to if I'm not gonna speak to them, I'm actually going to write to them. Or I'm going to write a little note. Because do you remember being you know, before we had phones, everyone would would always leave notes for each other. If you're going out, you'd leave notes for the person who was going to become It's what the fridge was for, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 27:00

And now if I leave a note, nobody my girls I'll say, Oh, you know, could you feed the dog or something? And they'll just say, Oh, I didn't see that.

Becs Frank 27:07

It's like, you know. Yes, because no one's you're not looking for the note. No, I would always send a message now if I was wanting to communicate with one of my kids about something. But I remember the notes that we used to leave for each other at home, and we all had funny nicknames for each other. And some like, you know, someone would always draw a little doodle, someone would always write something funny. You know, you ought a little love note just to say they love you, you know. Or a love note, yeah, or I miss you, or thank you. You know, so I think um there's a lot to be said for that.

SPEAKER_01 27:37

We need more of that in the world, don't we? Yeah. One of the things that she did that I really liked is she writes to herself, which at first I thought that's a bit odd. But what she means is she packs a letter away, for example, when she's packing up the Christmas decorations, um, to read again next year. And she'll uh so but I I like the idea of doing it like when you put the barbecue away at the end of the summer, you know, or your garden furniture, whatever you something you put in a shed and leave till next year. Yeah. You could do a little what we did this summer kind of letter to yourself, couldn't you? Oh, that's such a good idea. Yeah, I really like that idea.

Becs Frank 28:12

Yeah. I might try that. And yeah, because of course letters don't have to be sent either. They can just be something that you want to say or something you'd like to send to someone, or but we and you don't ever, ever have to post them, of course.

SPEAKER_01 28:26

I like sending yourself a postcard from a holiday.

Becs Frank 28:29

We were talking about this, weren't we? I think it's a great idea because we always used to send postcards, and probably most people don't anymore. And actually sending it to yourself as just a as a and other people if you want to, of course, but just as a a little kind of reminder of your holiday. Yeah, it's a souvenir, isn't it? I've got lots of letters.

SPEAKER_01 28:47

And you'll get home before they arrive, of course, won't you? You probably.

Becs Frank 28:51

And you keep them, don't you? You never throw these things away. No. No.

SPEAKER_01 28:54

Because if you've got lots of letters you've kept.

Becs Frank 28:56

Yeah, I do. I have all the letters that I kept when I was travelling and when I went away to live in France when I was 18, and I used to write home, write to my sister, write to my family regularly. And I've and then my parents gave me them my letters back um when they were kind of when they were moving house. So I've got I've got all of those, all of those letters. And I just love how it's like a snapshot of my mind at that time. Yes. I don't think there's anything else I've got that really kind of takes me back. It takes me back much more than a photo would.

SPEAKER_01 29:24

No, I've got a whole box full of letters that I wrote in the holidays when I was at university, because obviously it was pre-phones and you know, and we all lived in different parts of the country, and we all used to write to each other. Oh, writing to your friends. Yeah, and and I've kept them all. And I I really will spend a day one day just going through them, I think. Because um, and they're all, yeah, my mum, I I'm sure my mum would have read them, of course, before I um, which is probably not a good idea, before she sent me the box. But um, but I I I I'd really like to spend some time with them. Yeah.

Becs Frank 29:56

Do you know? I just um read a great book that was all written in letters, and I'm sure lots of our listeners will have read it as well. But um, I I don't think you have, have it. It's called Um The Correspondent by Virginia Evans. Um, it's actually been shortlisted for the it's her first novel, her first published novel, and it's been shortlisted for the Women's Prize for Fiction, and it tells the whole story of this woman Sybil's life, all through letters. Oh wow. Letters that she writes to other people and the letters that she receives. So you it's so clever.

SPEAKER_01 30:23

Yeah.

Becs Frank 30:24

I bet it makes a good audiobook as well, doesn't it? Yes, they're read in different voices. For different people read the different people. Yeah. Because obviously you get to know these characters through their letters. I think hearing them, when you're reading it yourself, it's it I think hearing them would actually be real. I think I'm gonna do that. Even though I've read the book, I think I might listen to it as well.

SPEAKER_01 30:41

Yes, it's always good when someone reads it really well, isn't it? Didn't we have a little a few uh bits of advice in the piece about how to write a better letter? Yes. Because we've forgotten the rules, haven't we, really? You know, because we don't write them anymore.

Becs Frank 30:53

Well, yeah, but also I think it's not really so much about the rules, because I think this puts people off. I think people get, you know, think, oh, I I don't know, I'm I'm not a good letter writer, or you know, what's the kind of you know etiquette and thing. So I mean there were sweet little things like actually the always add the date and an address, and an address is nice. Because I mean when you're looking back, you've got to think in you know, in years to come, it you you need to know when this letter was written and where they were where you were living. But don't worry about things like handwriting and or that you haven't got anything, you know, wildly interesting to say, or they're not really witty. It's just those simple, like little daily anecdotes and descriptions that could just are so good in a letter, don't you think?

SPEAKER_01 31:36

They are really useful bits of information, like you say, 50 years later, aren't they? You know, because it just tells a lot about how people lived.

Becs Frank 31:44

Exactly. And just a little thing like where you had your cup of coffee that day and what you had. Like, oh gosh, yeah, imagine how that how different that would be going out for a cup of coffee now than I don't know, 30 years ago or something. So much more of a sort of event, you know. Yeah, and describing where you are, or but I often find as well with letter writing is once you start writing, it takes its own route. You don't need to know what you're gonna write, really, just start writing. No, I think that's fair.

SPEAKER_01 32:10

I actually have started writing some letters because I think for me it was always the birthday or Christmas deadline thing that put me off sending stuff to people, you know, because it was like tied to a specific date and then you miss it and you know.

Becs Frank 32:23

Yeah. It wasn't because you just felt like doing it, it was because you had to at a certain time, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:28

No, exactly. I think doing a just because letter is is quite a nice project because it doesn't matter when you send it, you know. Nicer to receive it then as well, as a surprise. And I so I started writing to my daughter Alice, who's at a university. I know firstly she's at the other end of the country from me in Newcastle. Oh, nice, yeah. So I thought it would be a good way to chat that isn't just kind of because you know, we correspond a lot, you know, because it's easy, isn't it? But it's short and sweet, it's text. And she was really pleased to get them because it was a bit of a surprise. Yeah, I bet, I bet. But I discovered that this generation perhaps don't see letters as private things because when I went to visit, she'd pinned them on her notice board in her room, so anybody could read them basically. And and I was like, Okay. Okay.

Becs Frank 33:13

And you were thinking, that wasn't actually for all eyes.

SPEAKER_01 33:17

But I am gonna carry on because um I think we both got something out of it. But actually, I think that shows that she was kind of treasuring that and wanted to keep it. That's what she said, yeah. She said she was really pleased with it. But uh, it's funny because I would keep them in a you know, in their envelope in a drawer. In a drawer, yeah. Perhaps tied with ribbon. It's like but we did it, we did a really nice blog post uh that I I found when we were talking about this podcast and talking about letters, and it was about letters that changed the world, and obviously there's been quite a few of those. But the one uh that I really liked was from Charles Darwin, and his friend was a botanist called Joseph Hooker, and apparently they exchanged some like 1400 letters with each other over the over their time. Wow, I mean that is incredible. I know that much correspondence, and they kept them, presumably, because presumably someone's read them. He wrote one in 1844, and it was, you know, describing the gleams of light that have come, and he's quite convinced, in contrary to uh the opinion he started with, that you know, species will change, they'll evolve. And he doesn't use all the words that we've become familiar with, but he's talking about they become exquisitely adapted to various ends. And he he said, you know, he thinks he thinks his friend will scoff at him at this, and and of course, so he's almost apologetic about it. Yes, yeah, and of course, 15 years later, that letter was the basis of On the Origin of Species that you know changed the way we think about. Wow. I mean, isn't that incredible? Yeah, amazing. Letters are beautiful, aren't they? Because you you've read these blogs well, haven't you? Because it was the one that you liked.

Becs Frank 34:53

Well, there was the one from um Henry VIII to Anne Boleyn, which I mean, all you think of when you think of that is oh, Anne Boleyn was executed, you know. Yes. You know, that that's that's the memorable thing about that. Not that, you know, obviously he fell for her massively um when he was still married to Catherine of Aragon, and he wrote her a letter, which is still in existence, and he signed this off written with the hand of him that wishes he were yours. So clearly he's lost, you know, he's he's lost himself to her, hasn't he? He's completely besotted.

SPEAKER_01 35:24

But also that letter still exists. How amazing is that?

Becs Frank 35:27

That's like 500 years old, you know. It's it's incredible. And this has this letter actually triggered this whole huge event, the the Reformation, you know, because basically, you know, because he wanted to divorce. I mean, he didn't actually manage to divorce, but he got his marriage annulled, you know, taking away the um control of back back to the English monarch and back away from the church, didn't he? So, you know, amazing.

SPEAKER_01 35:52

Big dramatic differences. So I've been looking at some of the letters uh that were sent from the Titanic because we were obviously working with Titanic Belfast, and it's really interesting. There's some stories there, and you know, these are personal letters that were written on board the ship, including the last letter that was ever sent from the ship, and it was from the assistant ship surgeon who did go down with the ship. And he was born in Belfast, which is obviously where it was built, and he wrote this letter to his mother before they sailed across the Atlantic because Titanic actually went to Cherbourg first and then Southampton, and it came back via the south of Ireland, and the letters came aboard at a place called Queenstown. Um, I think it's not called that now, it's called Cove, but um, it's near Cork. And this this piece of correspondence then made its way to its mother, his mother in Belfast, and it was the last letter to leave the ship. They have the letter there. Oh, amazing. Yeah, they've got the letter at Titanic Belfast. So and they've got loads of documents actually. They've got you know letters and um the last lunch menu, they've got passenger lists, very poignant, isn't it? Yeah, exactly. So um, as I said, thanks to Titanic Belfast for supporting us, and you can find out more at Titanicbelfast.com. But yeah, no, the uh letters, I feel inspired, Pex.

Becs Frank 37:08

I feel inspired to Yeah, well, it's just it's a nice kind of um little restful pastime, though it is a tonic, is what we're talking about, isn't it? Just it's something that makes you feel better, and it gets you off your phone.

SPEAKER_01 37:22

It stops, you know, it's in something else to do rather than pick up your phone when you've got a sort of moment or two, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02 37:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:29

And and you know, we we've been talking a lot about this, haven't we, because we've done this piece on bloom scrolling. That's the that's the as opposed to doom scrolling. Yeah, and um about self-editing your feeds. Now, I did I did have a go at this this week, but it's actually a bit harder than I thought to literally start changing settings unless you're really into like the mechanics of your phone and you know how to a bit about it. I mean, you can look up how to do it, yeah. And I spent a while just trying to suss it out, but what you can do, of course, is make your searching more intentional. Because you're trying, you're trying to get the algorithm to work with you, aren't you?

Becs Frank 38:04

The point of it is that often unknowingly, m many of us when we're switching on our phones and we're looking at whatever it is, Instagram, Facebook, news, you know, whatever we're being served is not necessarily what we've chosen to look at. Yes. You know, our algorithm are you know, based on our previous searches, things we've liked, things that that are you know it knows about us, will be just sort of feed and increasingly this happens, isn't it? So you'll find, I mean, I look on Instagram quite a lot. I'm finding that, you know, I'm not actually seeing the accounts that I follow, they're buried kind of within all this stuff that I'm being served about, you know, dog teeth health, yes, you know, and weight training and all the things that I'm engaging with in my life, but then yeah, it's all kind of going off the scale. And I'm like, hang on, where is where where's my friends that I want to see?

SPEAKER_01 38:51

And I know because I'm finding I post less myself now because I don't see my friends post as much. And what was for me a form of communication, like keeping in touch, seeing what was happening in people's lives, you know, when you're busy and you haven't always got time to talk, is now just more a form of entertainment because, like you, my feeds have become swamped with things. Yes, they're vaguely entertaining, but in a short, instant, not very gratifying kind of instant gratifying way, you know.

Becs Frank 39:19

It's so they call this this is the short form content, these short and these videos like the reels and the thing, and you know, on TikTok and Instagram, they all have these, you know, these reels, these short form, fast kind of content that you can just flick through and it's entertaining. And this is what they're saying is highly kind of addictive. You find yourself just sitting there for ages, can't you? Just going through it and you've not really engaged with anything, and then suddenly, you know, half an hour's gone, and you're like, whoa, whoa, and you don't feel great about yourself, you've not found what or looked for what you were originally looking for, yeah. And often um interesting in this piece to say it's it's sometimes you're going often you pick up your phone to kind of meet some kind of emotional need. Yeah. So it might be boredom, it might be that you're upset about something, or you're just trying to or just want a distraction. So it's not really an intentional, oh, I want to, I'm going on my phone because I'd like to see you, you know, learn, I don't know, something about gardening because I'm gonna go out of my garden, or I'd like to see all my friends, you know, you're but you suddenly No, it's more vague than that, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, and it's it's unintentional. So you know, there are obviously settings and things like that that you can do, and we've talked about that. But also it's just about being more intentional.

SPEAKER_01 40:26

I don't think we've actually said, but this piece is in our main issue that we've got, and it's got some really good advice in there, hasn't it, about being more intentional.

Becs Frank 40:34

Yeah, because it's not we're not saying give up your phone, lock it in a box, you know, because we know that's not realistic anymore. You know, people need them, but you're using them for work, you're using them to plan your holidays, using them to decide what you're gonna cook that evening. You know, so you know you know we were not it's not about that, but it's about being more intentional. So that is what I'm doing. So that's what I'm going to look at. And then I'm going to do, you know, actually spend a bit of time perhaps cleaning up your feeds so that they are, they do reflect what you actually what you actually want to see. Definitely. And is recognising those times when you're just being unintentional and you don't feel great about yourself after that hour spent in bed doing that when you were meant to be picking up your book but you lost track of time and didn't. I know. So recognising those signs and being a bit more strict with yourself.

SPEAKER_01 41:14

Yes, because uh, you know, our we've we've said, haven't we, that one of our themes in this season of the podcast is you know, every and we'll talk about ours at the end, but the you know, time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time. That's a really good mantra. But actually, time this is not time you enjoy, is it? Our exact opposite of that is time you really have wasted and you didn't get the pleasure from it. So I mean, frankly, right now, the best thing is probably to leave your phone behind and go out for a walk because it's so gorgeous out there. Absolutely, yeah. And you know, oh put it, keep it in your bag or leave it at home, and then you're not going to be tempted, are you? And I bet you anything that half an hour's walk gives you more pleasure than half an hour on the phone.

Becs Frank 41:59

Oh, a hundred percent, in in so many different ways. And also, I mean, it's uh it's a way of engaging all the other sensors, which you're not doing at all when you're when you're sitting looking at your phone. So we we've we've I've written a feature about this in our May issue. And it's a great piece, this Bex.

SPEAKER_01 42:15

I it's really inspired me. Oh, good. We've both done a sensory walk, haven't we, in the last few days?

Becs Frank 42:21

Yeah, we have. So it's just about sensory walks and using and picking a sense and doing or or just being out there and and being aware of your different senses, because we're we're quite sight dominant, most of us. Yes. And now is the time to do it, isn't it? There's so much to to engage all these different senses.

SPEAKER_01 42:37

And just to explain this, so a sensory walk is about not just because not just relying on sight, really, which is is what we mainly rely on, isn't it? Yeah, you know, it might be comforting smells, or why don't we touch things more like children do? Because they touch everything, don't they? Um and you know, that there's lots and obviously the sounds as well, which we talked about a bit when we did our dawn walks in an earlier episode, didn't we? But yeah, yeah, exactly. But so I went on a touch walk. Yes. How did that go? Well, I just really liked the idea of touching things that I wouldn't usually. So, you know, I was kind of thinking, oh, maybe it'll be a bit rainy or something, and I'll feel the rain on my face. As it happened, it was a gorgeous morning, which was really nice. Oh, good. I found closing my eyes really helped when I was touching something because I couldn't, I didn't quite get into the groove of it at first. But then I had my eyes closed and I was touching this wooden gate, it was an old gate, and I could feel the lichens growing on it, not just the texture of the wood. And then I picked up some sheep's wool that had caught on a branch, and I when I rubbed the fibers, I could feel the landlin in the wool, you know, you could feel the slight greasiness, but not in a horrible way. And afterwards, I noticed it had made my fingers soft because obviously they use land linen in a lot of moisturizer and stuff, don't they? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's waxy. And then I put my hands in this really cold back and with Within seconds, my fingers were numb. Yeah.

Becs Frank 44:02

But it was, and then did you notice how that really felt affected all your body? Yes, it just straight away had an impact.

SPEAKER_01 44:08

And then I sat on these stones that were warming up in the sun, and you could feel that they they'd fallen off a dry stone wall, and I was just sat on them on the grass. And and then the bonus was, of course, because I'd slowed down and noticed all these things. I saw a hair because I was sat really still and just watching. And after a while, I was noticing everything, like the feel of the dog's lead in my hands, and you know, it was such a forgotten sense for me. I I it really um it really made a difference.

Becs Frank 44:35

Yeah, it's kind of it's that's that's interesting what you said about how how as the time went on, you kind of just started noting more and more. It's like you almost training that sense again, isn't it? It's a practice, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 44:46

I think I think you do have to treat it as a practice that you get better at and more in tune with. Because you because you did which one did you do you do smells, did you?

Becs Frank 44:55

I did smells, which actually was quite hard as well. I mean, there were obvious smells that you noticed, but then I so at first, at first I was kind of I tell you what, I did this twice. My dawn walk, I got a lot, I smelled, I I noticed I could smell a lot more. And I think it was because all my other senses weren't as active because it was kind of it was not light, properly light yet. There weren't lots of other sounds, and I noticed things like the smell of the dew and that that kind of fresh, rainy, wet smell of earth. Oh, I love that. Yeah, and then and because I started sort of walking through fields and I noticed the odd kind of sort of blossom smell, plant leaf smell. And then I got down to where there were more buildings, and that was quite interesting because it really changed, and I started picking up some sort of human smells, so I could smell coffee coming out of a house, you know, someone was obviously making their morning coffee, and that kind of was a really familiar sort of jolt. I noticed like a waft of perfume that someone, so someone was obviously ahead of me. I couldn't see any people, but I could smell that there was somebody, somebody near me. And I don't think if I'd not kind of switched on my sense of smell or started noticing things earlier in my walk, I don't think I'd have I'd have just taken those other smells for granted. I wouldn't have noticed them. And it built up this picture. Interesting, you just sort of blank them out, don't you? Yeah, yeah. And now, and then I did another one, and then I really started picking up a lot more. I think there's a there's a there are more, there's more scented flowers out now, and I could smell, I could smell it, I could smell it a lilac, and I could smell this um this cherry this blossom. I'm not sure what it was, but it was um quite a kind of distinctive smelling blossom. And then I was really, I was leaning in, smelling this blossom, and then I got this like, oh, what's that? And a girl jogged past me, and she'd got this kind of uh smell of laundry, uh like a washing powder that yeah, that I recognized, and I just thought, God, I don't yeah, how interesting. Yeah, yeah, I was training it, definitely.

SPEAKER_01 46:49

I I think that's the thing. We we need to train ourselves to um make more notice these forgotten senses more, don't we?

Becs Frank 46:57

Yeah, but I think the point of it is as well, is and as as you mentioned and I found is that by doing that, you're just you're absorbed in what you're doing and you're connecting with probably with nature because a lot of the things you're gonna be touching are are are gonna be in you know out natural things, but you're not thinking about other things. You've not got your headphones on, you're not on the phone, you're not still thinking about what you've got to do when you get home, you're thinking about where you are, and that important little break for your brain is great.

SPEAKER_01 47:25

And it was interesting because actually, because I was so calm, the dog was really calm as well, because you know, she was on the lead and she'd spotted the hair and she was a bit on alert, but she didn't try and move, she just sat there next to me, which is really interesting. I think you know, you I reckon if I came back from that walk, I walk into the house in a sort of waft of calm, yeah, as opposed to like you know, steaming back in and getting on with something.

Becs Frank 47:49

I think uh you can tell what how you know your dogs reflect your mood. Yes, don't read just don't read just yeah.

SPEAKER_01 47:56

Well, anyway, that's a great piece, and that is in our May issue, which is on sale now. So um, we I think it's time to talk about wasted time, Bex. What's your either something you're going to do or something you've done? Perhaps it's something you're going to do.

Becs Frank 48:10

Well, I talked about my letters earlier, and it's kind of inspired me to go back and have a read through some of those because it is a bit of a I guess it's a waste of time. I've done it before lots of times, but it always makes me feel really happy and nostalgic. And I and it's and it's also gonna inspire me and the book I've just read to write my some more some more letters. And I was thinking about asking one of my friends who lives in my old my old home city if she wants to be my pen pal. And we're gonna and if she'd like if we'd like to start writing to each other. And I think that'd be so sweet. I love that. You're never too old to have a pen pal, are you?

SPEAKER_01 48:42

That's great.

Becs Frank 48:42

I hope she says yes. If you're listening, you know who you are.

SPEAKER_01 48:45

Say yes. Um well, I think I'm gonna I'm gonna spend an afternoon just reading more about herbs. Yeah. I I kind of, you know, not not for any particular purpose, yeah. But just understanding a little bit more about what infusions are good for what and just just delve into a subject because she can for an afternoon, you know what I mean? Yeah, and not kind of think, oh, I I've only got half an hour, I'll just look something up. But I actually get a couple of books and immerse myself. You'll probably find there's a lot of things growing in your garden or around you that I didn't know about, yeah. I love that. Well, that brings us to the end of our tonic episode. I think it has been a tonic. Thanks to Bets for setting me on the path of sensory walks. I'll be doing more of those this summer. And also to Titanic Belfast for supporting us this season. You can find out more about how to visit and book tickets at Titanicbelfast.com. And all the links to the blog posts, books, and features from Issues of the Mag will be in our show notes on your podcast app. And if you'd like to get a copy of the May issue or June issue, which is coming up soon, um you can choose an immediate start subscription and you'll get them straight away. So next week it's our slow traveller Joe Tinsley and I who are back for our Lark episode, and we're going to be sharing a fondness for camping with a bit of larking about, some spontaneous adventures and looking for magical creatures. So it's bye from us. Bye. See you next time. Yeah, definitely. We'll see you then, and thanks for listening.