May Days - Episode 5 - SUNSHINE

Join The Simple Things’ wellbeing editor Rebecca Frank and author of The Slow Traveller Jo Tinsley as they talk summer ball games and park yoga, music and memories and making the most of sunny days in the garden. 

If you are in the UK, you can try an immediate start subscription to the The Simple Things and receive the current issue straight away. Or buy current and back issues here

Thanks to our sponsor Titanic Belfast. Find out more and how to visit at titanicbelfast.com and on Instagram @titanicbelfast

Editing and music by Arthur Cosslett

In the May issue (167) 

Balls identifier. Illustrations by Sarah Edmonds www.sarahedmondsshop.com

In the June issue (168) 

Park yoga picnic - enjoy a sunshine stretch followed by a tasty lunch and catch up with friends

Why weight? The physical and mental benefits of getting stronger 

My place: outdoor kitchens to swoon over

In the July issue (169) available to buy from 26 June here

Music and memories – how songs have the power to transport us to our most life changing moments. 

Read – Transported: The Everyday Magic of Musical Daydreams by Elizabeth Margulis (Oneworld)

Listen – The Simple Things publish an original playlist every issue. Find them here

My Living –  Jo talks to Lois Povey of community pub Tafarn Yr Heliwr, Nefyn. 

On the blog

Grown up lollies

Cucumber mint and lemonade lollies recipe

Berry coconut lollies recipe 

Watermelon slices on a lolly stick recipe

From previous issues available to buy here

Looking back –  women in sport (Issue 88)

The history of the pub beer garden (Issue 131)

How to harness the sun in your garden (144)

Picking petals and leaves for cooking (120)

Transcript

Becs Frank 0:14

Hello and welcome to Small Ways to Live Well, the podcast from The Simple Things, a monthly magazine that's all about slowing down and seeking out small joys. I'm Rebecca Frank, and this is episode five in this latest season, which we're calling May Days. And today I'm joined by our co-host Joe Tinsley, author of The Slow Traveller. We're going to be talking about sunshine and different ways to make the most of it and harness the energy that it gives us. Because if you're listening to this on the day of release, then tomorrow is the first of June, and that's the first day of summer. So if you're a regular listener, you'll know this season is supported by Titanic Belfast, which is a visitor attraction telling the story of the famous ship on the original site where she was actually built and launched. So there are interactive galleries where you can experience sights and sounds and smells of the ship. And I'm going to share a few of the artifacts that you can find at the attraction a bit later on in this episode. And you can find out more about how to plan a visit at Titanicbelfast.com or follow them on Instagram at Titanic Belfast. So hi Joe, how are you feeling today? This episode's quite high energy, isn't it? Yeah, I'm good, thanks. Yeah. I think there's something about the light and the warmer weather at this time of year that makes us feel like really motivated to move and play. Definitely. Yeah, it was making me think about summer games. Like you know, the own the games that you only play at this time of year, like rounders or beach cricket or volleyball, and how much I'm really wanting to play games like that at the moment. But are you a fan of games like that? Yeah, it's fun, isn't it? I like I I I do I like the informality of summer ball games. Yeah just it's just less serious, isn't it? More about fun and anyone joining in, doesn't matter how good you are or not. Yeah. Because I I mean I do I love tennis, but I'm I'm an observer. Like I will love watching a game of tennis. I'm like watching Wimbledon. I don't play. I just I've never felt like I'm good enough to play because I didn't learn when I was younger, which is probably wrong, not the right attitude to have, because I know you can take up things at at any age, but I'm always up for a game of rounders or batonball, volleyball on the beach. Yeah, I've been I've been thinking about rounders recently and want to recruit some players at the gym to play. But yeah, I've also I've recently started playing badminton, which is something I used to be really into about 20 years ago. Oh, nice. And so my skill levels aren't quite up to what they used to be, but I'm still just as competitive, which is an interesting combination. Are you? I can't quite imagine that. I'm really competitive, and I'm not a bad loser by any means. Um I just really like that competitive nature. But um, I feel like that's appropriate on a Badminton court. Like it's not an inappropriate place to be that competitive, is it? Like trying to outlift someone at the gym or something. Completely. No, I think I think, well, you're out you're out there on your own, aren't you, Joe? Yeah. God, I haven't played Badminton, I don't think, since I was at school, but it's a fun game, isn't it? And a bit of healthy competitiveness is fine, I think. Definitely. I did a feature in the May issue, the recent May issue, about um it was an identifier of balls. Oh yes, that's really fun. Each issue we have this miscellany feature, which is like an assortment of things to do and make and learn. And we always have these visual ID guides, don't we? They can be on anything, can't they? We've done different types of flowers, birds, but we've also done quite off-beat things like I don't know, ice cream flavours and retro sweets, and yeah. Yeah, they're really fun. So, yeah, so I wrote this guide to nine types of ball, ball game. And uh the illustrations were by Sarah Edmonds, who's a friend, and she does these cheeky prints of sort of um tits, the garden variety, stools, boobies, things like that as prints. So it was a really fun one. But yeah, so it was all about the history of ball games. So there was the beach ball, which is uh the invention was widely credited to Jonathan DeLong, and the original 1930s version was about the size of an adult hand. Oh, really? And it wasn't until 1960s pop culture that they sort of made this massive inflatable ball that was this symbol of Carefree Summers, which of course a lot of these things have changed over time. Yeah, that's so interesting. But wasn't that the reason why the tennis balls are yellow? Something to do with David Asenberg. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, so they used to be white, but Sir David said he was finding it, it was really impossible to track a white ball on new colour tellys. And so he kind of spearheaded this push for a more visible ball, which is interesting. I really like the ones about snooker balls because they were actually made out of celluloid, uh first industrial plastic, which was notorious for being unstable and highly flammable. And a particularly hard impact could create these sharp crack like a cap gun. So they could, you know, technically explode, which I quite quite like that idea. Oh. I like uh yeah, kind of having a fun game of snooker, but um that is something I can't, I don't sit and watch at home. That is very interesting, ball, ball facts. And obviously there are there are quite a few more on the piece as well, aren't there? What about team sports? Do you did you because we've done a couple of features about this, haven't we? And talking about, you know, why kind of you know joining up or starting a team sport again as a as an adult is a good thing. Because I think a lot of girls particularly disengage with that, even as young as kind of young teenagers, don't they? And then we never sort of pick it up again. Did you play team sports when you were younger? Yeah, so I I you know I I really find it heartening that we're in this golden age of women's team sports at the moment, because I was really into football when I was younger. Were you? I was, yeah, yeah. But this was in this was in the 80s and 90s. Yeah, because it wasn't so popular then at all, was it? No, it was quite a it was a big thing to because you had to get on a boys' team, you know. So there was there was no girls' team at the school. I was actually I was scouted for Lancashire girls um when I was at a football training camp. I know. Well I never got in because I broke my leg. And then and then I started secondary school and I just fell out of I didn't fall out of love with it. It was just the PE changing environment wasn't somewhere I wanted to spend very much time. Yeah, fair enough. Yeah. Yeah, but um, I'd really love it. Like I'd love it if my daughter got into football. Like I love I love that that's something that people do now. And you know, the we're watching it at unprecedented levels. I know.

unknown 6:03

Yeah.

Becs Frank 6:04

So like um last year, I think 48 million viewers watched women's sport, and the Euro 2025 final was the most watched television moment of the year, um, which is fantastic. I love that. That's fantastic, it really is. I mean, I've got a son that's very into football, you know, so I'm quite involved in watching football, and I think it and we see so much more of the kind of women's teams now and girls, and so many of my friends have got girls that are really quite serious and ambitious about their football as well, which is which is brilliant. For me, it was kind of netball is the only team sport that I played, and I haven't picked it up again. I played it at school, but nothing, not to any kind of serious competitive level. What was you what was your position? I can I can see you as a as a goal attack. Yeah, well, I was always either like goal attacking because I'm tall or or at the other end doing the kind of goalkeeping, which was much more I've much preferred being in the attack position, but I'm not sure I was quite, you know, as kind of reliable at shooting as as some people. I was always I was always wing attack. Well, no, wing defense if I wanted to be wing attack. But yeah, netball is an interesting one because it was very much a female sport because it allowed women and young and girls to be competitive while also learning restraint. So you've got this, you know, movement is limited, contact is not allowed. Um, you know, it's very controlled, ladylike sport. Yes. If you think about it, it I mean it isn't now when you you know when you play it and you watch it, but but you can see where that how that has evolved from, can't you? That you know, you lean over but don't touch anyone.

unknown 7:27

Yeah.

Becs Frank 7:28

Yes, exactly. I don't think there's anything wrong with competitiveness. But yeah, there are, you know, obviously there's more um sort of gentle ways to to enjoy sports and in movement at this time of year as well. Because you're you're really into you like your outdoor yoga and your outdoor fitness as well, don't you? Yeah, I I really like yoga. I don't do loads of outdoor, but I have done outdoor yoga, and whenever I do do it, I think it's just lovely. We've got um an outdoor yoga gathering feature in our June issue, which is, I should just say our June issue will now be on sale. It's a lovely summery issue with a beautiful cover, the word is bloom. We've got this lovely sort of summery yoga picnic gathering of friends. So take along a mat. Everyone brings a dish, and there's some really great, kind of quite healthy, but you know, plant-based, a lot of them, or plant with lot packed, plant-packed probably dishes. So we've got things like a corgette and sweet potato loaf, which I have had I have actually made this, and my children were like, oh, that sounds disgusting. And it was absolutely delicious, but really, really moist and tasty. And there's a really nice salad with chickpeas and chard and feta, smoothie, little um chocolate brownie date balls. So really nice portable things that you could kind of bring along. And I like the idea of just taking your mat and I don't know, you could organise a class with a teacher or or go along to a class, but you could also just perhaps go with some friends. Go and do some yoga in the park. Yeah, each maybe share a you know, a pose that they find particularly helpful for them, or just sit and do some breathing. And you know, you can I like hearing the sounds of the sounds of the birds and things while you're while you're doing yoga, it really adds to it. And you kind of like at first you feel a bit self-conscious because I used to do this in Brighton. I used to, we had a yoga teacher, and then there was a group of us that would do it outside. But yeah, after a while you completely get into it. And I think that's part of it. Yeah, sort of shedding that self-consciousness and just really enjoying it. You come away feeling more confident. Yeah. Yeah, I used to do this like a kind of boot camp park boot camp thing. Um and and you know, I remember at first we'd all, you know, we'd all be sort of standing around a bit self-consciously and thinking, I've got, you know, there's a group of kids walking to school and you know what they're gonna say to us, or you know, that but actually, you know, with five minutes in you're doing I'm doing burpees of my bum in the air and I don't care. Don't care. Don't care. But I have to say my dog is a nightmare with any kind of park or or outdoor exercise. So I have to be really careful to keep her on the lead because she will just go try and enjoy, go and get involved. Yeah, yeah, definitely. Actually, also in the in the June issue, I should say, on the kind of subject of of fitness and well-being, I've written a piece about weight training because I just felt that I needed to write about this because everybody seems to be talking about and trying, or you know, the benefits of lifting weights and it, you know, or or doing some kind of strength training because it's it's just so good for us mentally and physically. And you do that, don't you, Jo? I do, yeah, I do. And I love how weight training is having a moment at the at the moment. Um because like my algorithm, like when I look on social media, it's all like strong women building muscle and fueling their workout. So it's not about shrinking or eating less, it's about like powering your body and seeing what it can do. Yeah. Um, but no, I really got into it in the last 18 months, which is really unexpected because the gym is not somewhere that I feel comfortable and much more likely to be hiking or swimming or something like that. But yeah, I originally went for mental health reasons, but yeah, it's funny how that motivation changes because it is still about resilience for sure. Yeah. Um it's getting more about my body now because I'm starting, I've seen some real changes and I'm starting to get stronger and I just feel better, like it's got less aches and pains, like I've got better mood, better hormone regulation, like it's a better appetite. Like I feel more like myself, and then the motivation shifts and becomes stronger, and now I feel really out of sorts if I don't go for a week. Yeah, that's so interesting, isn't it? It's kind of very empowering, isn't it, to change what you're capable of and you can progress. And I know, and I I think two years ago I thought everything was in decline. Do you know what I mean? I thought like my health and my weight and my body and And you thought that was it. You were on your downward spiral. Yeah, I thought that was it. Yeah, yeah, I was on this downward spiral because you get you get into your 40s and that's how it feels. Um, and yeah, to reverse that is actually really empowering. Yeah, and actually the um trainers that I spoke to for the piece were very, you know, kind of clear about the fact that this isn't age specific. This is something that's a benefit for women of any age. So in your 20s, 30s, you know, you're you're laying down some really good roots of uh of get of building muscle, which you know it will will stand you in good stead for the age-related muscle loss that we all experience. We experience it from our kind of 40s onwards, really. I mean, that increases in its kind of decline. But um it's something that we all need to be aware of. But at any time you can start, you can help to halt that. You can't reverse it so much, but you can you can certainly halt it and you can build muscle at any age. And you know, the benefits of that from you know, it's not just about oh, what however many kilos you can lift, it's about just things like you know, lifting up your bag and putting it on the shelf, you know, above you. Yeah, I love it whenever I get something heavy delivered and they they're like, Are you sure you've got this? It's like, oh yeah, I got this. Don't worry. Yeah, exactly. It feels good, doesn't it? And you don't have to be in the gym. You can do this obviously in small studios, you can do it um in outdoor classes, you can do it at home, you could do it in your garden with some dumbbells and your iPad or something, and follow one of the great online classes. So I think you know, I I I felt very inspired speaking to these people, and I like you, I feel very inspired by the stories of of how people uh how they how they feel it's changing their bodies and minds. Yeah, you don't even have to do it in a gym, do you? You can just grab some weights and do it home outside. Yeah, put put on some music and you know, get outside. And that's what I, you know, actually, you know, um listening to music outside, you know, is a is a another great thing to do in the summer, isn't it? And I think you know, we've all got our favorite. There's something about summer, I think, our summer playlists, our summer tracks, yeah, things that really mean this time of year, whether it's like, I don't know, maybe finishing exams or going on road trips, yeah, hol holidays. I I've got I certainly have. Have you? Yeah, and I love listening to music. Like I listen to music all the time, and I I really enjoy um, you know, rolling the windows down and blasting up music as well and singing really loudly. Does Ayla get really embarrassed? Or is she young enough that she finds that quite fun? Oh no, she loves it, she's the loudest. You wait till she's a teenager, and then you'll if you open the window or have any music on it, she's like, oh my god, shut the window, you're so embarrassing. It's quite good. You actually quite like each of us' music tastes at the moment. She's very into um her K-pop, which is actually, I don't mind it, it's quite good. And I've been introducing her. So I haven't really gone into got into K-pop. Probably my kids aren't into it, so I haven't really been introduced to it. But that's fun. Yeah. They're fun, they're fun. And you know, um I'm trying to educate us to being like this Ayla is grunge, you know, just trying to start the musical education quite early. Yeah, good, good plan. Yeah. No, I'm finding them I'm now enjoying my kids' music more when they're as their kind of tastes are kind of you know maturing, and I find a lot of good new music from them. We've actually written a piece in the in the Dune issue, and it's all about why music kind of evokes these really strong, yeah, kind of visceral memories. And um, there is there is quite a lot of research into it, and particularly about why a lot of these go back to our to our adolescence. Yeah, I mean, I feel like it was really interesting to read that piece because I listened to a lot of music from when I was a teenager. Do you? Yeah, a lot, a lot. She was saying it's because this was a period of our life when we were doing, we were forming our identity, and so we were looking for things that resonate for ways of understanding ourselves and the world around us and expressing who we are. Yeah. And so, of course, that's going to be more deep-rooted than the latest Billy Eilish song that you hear nowadays or whatever. Yes. That's why the lyrics were so important to us, wasn't it? And I used to write them out and you know, did you? Yeah, yeah. Do you have these really sort of solid memories when you hear a track and it completely takes you back to a time? Loads. I mean, and sometimes I don't even know I've got that memory until the song I hear it. Yeah. And then, especially if I've not heard it for a while. And then I'm, you know, that I mean, I I definitely have the fur Madonna album, True Blue, was the first time I went on holiday to the first time we didn't go on a camping holiday to France. And I think we were in Spain somewhere and we'd and it was really hot. It was much more hot than I was used to, and I'd got a Walkman and I was listening to that on repeat. I think it's probably the only thing I had. But I think in my head, I was there. I was Lai's La Bonito was my life, and I was, you know, that was anyway. I also have those like, you know, club, first clubs and first kind of, you know, that that was when it was all like kind of in the first Manchester indie music and stuff like that was coming out. And that that for me is just that time of freedom. Yeah, I listened to a lot of that. I think when I was in my sort of early teens, like I was around 14, I was I was a melancholic little thing. So I was I was listening to lots of like ultra by the pesh mode and Porter's head was coming out and things like that. And then I met my uh my first boyfriend when I was about 15, and he got me really into Led Zeppelin. We used to listen to it, I could just picture it sort of like you know, bunk beds in his room and just a lava lamp on, probably some incense or something, listening to Led Zeppelin 3 on vinyl. And I know them all off by heart. I know which song's coming next. You know, the idea of listening to something all the way through, which we don't really do nowadays, and those songs really take me back. So yeah, I love those. It's so true. But we can also you we know we we can use music now to you know, not not only for memories and and being transported back. And I should say in this piece there's a um reference to a fantastic book called Transportation, um, which is all about why why music has uh does this to us. And I'll we'll put the notes to that in the in the show notes. Also, we we can use music music to help us concentrate, to you know, for different to and you and I think you you do that, don't you? So you use certain music when you're when you're working. Yeah, absolutely. Um yeah. I mean when I'm writing, I don't listen to music, but generally if I'm editing or anything like that, I have different music that I put on. But I always find I go down these rabbit holes. So like I'll hear a track that I like, and then on Spotify or whatever, I would go down and find all these really obscure genres. So I was thinking of obscure genres I found recently is trash folk or one man band Americana or Grunge Blues like Mrs. Zippy Delta Blues, which I think comes back to Led Zeppelin again. But yeah, it's like I didn't even know I liked these. Yeah, well that's what that's what Spotify does for you, doesn't it? And obviously, we're seeing it with TikTok, which is create recreating all these kind of new, reviving all these old songs. And I, you know, I can literally be suddenly hear one of my teenagers singing a song from the 80s, and then I join in and they're like, what the hell? How do you know that's what I'm saying? It's interesting because we we have the similar tastes of our parents' kind of car tapes, right? So we've you know, like Fleetwood Mac and things like that, which obviously goes across all generations. Yeah, but it's interesting because my swimming coach, he teaches like a class of teenagers and then he teaches us. So it's like a 30-year at least difference between it, and he puts a playlist on now, and they know all the same songs that we know, even though this is like, you know, he's in his 40s probably putting on these songs. So it's just because of all their throwback playlists and and and TikTok. Yeah, because they've got parents with good taste. Yeah, tuk-tuck. But yeah, apparently that is it. You do have this sort of you have the nostalgia for your own, and then you have this sort of second bump of um of nostalgia for the songs that your parents had nostalgia for. So actually, the the music you're playing now will be with be with Ayla forever. So you better think about it carefully.

unknown 18:45

Yeah.

Becs Frank 18:45

But of course, I should say that um in Simple Things, we have a playlist in the magazine every month, which is very carefully kind of curated by Francis, our deputy editor. And we've got some brilliant summer playlists, um songs for a barbecue, a feel-good summer, and in our June bloom issue, we've got songs with flowers in the title. And they're they're really popular, and I I always enjoy listening to them. It's Whattify can be a little bit hard to kind of navigate sometimes, can't it? So I'm gonna put the link in the show notes to where you can find all of the Simple Things playlists. So maybe we should take a break now, Joe, and read our story. Every episode we have a read-aloud story for you to just have sit back and have a listen to. And it's a story that will have been published in in The Simple Things, where we every issue we publish uh an original short story. And today, this is a lovely story, and it is very much about a memorable outing. Playing Truant, a short story by Sarah Vaughan. It is just as she remembers it, and her heart gives a jolt as the view unfurls in front of her. The muted gold of the sand, the soft green of the seagrass, the petrol blue of the waves as they curl and crash onto the shore. Amy's throat catches tight. She swallows, irritated at being moved, for her eyes prick hot and wet. Nothing has changed in the twenty years since she was here, but there are no cars, and nothing to suggest that it's made any concessions to the twenty-first century. She glances at her mobile, slim and sleek and ever present, no signal. For a fraction of a second she panics, and then a smile spreads across her face, and she lets out a glorious, gleeful roar. She slips off her shoes, ridiculous kitten heels that wobbled as she walked down the track, and the gossamothin tights that sheath her legs. Her calves are pale, shut away during the winter, but no time to sunbathe, though it's early July. The summers are sidled up and hadn't wanted to intrude before now. The silvery sand seeps between her toes, fine and almost white, turning cool as her feet sink deep. She pauses and breathes in the scent of honeyed gorse and thrift, and the sharp tang of sea salt. A breeze flitter across her face, and she squeezes her eyes shut, but lets herself be enveloped by it all. She walks towards the shore, watching her toes dent to the now firm beach, but then sink at the edge of a pool of water, squelching down until the sand sucks at her ankles and depresses her heavy, cool, and wet. For a moment she enjoys the sensation, pulling each foot up and then submerging it, absorbed in the futility of what she's doing. It soothes her, this action, timeless, is unnecessary, utterly perfect. Eventually she moves on, splashing through the shallow water, watching shrimps surprised by her bare toenails flit across them. She slows her pace and listens to the slow. Blush is blush blush. The rhythmic splashing prompts a smile, just as it did when she scampered along the beach as a girl, chased by her younger brothers. For five consecutive summers they came here, five precious summers packed tight with memories she still draws on. Events she only recently realized that have shaped her. She starts to run, aware that she wants to replicate those feelings, and soon she's whooping and whirling, no longer self-conscious, but caught up in the sheer beauty of this place. She splashes through a wave and the sea laps and skitters, licking her ankles, but then drenching her legs. Oh bugger. Her interview skirt, a biaskirt, a professional, a demure, that sags with the salt water and swirls around her like the fronds of an anemone. Oh well, she doesn't need it now. She got the job, and so there is nothing for it. She wrenches off her skirt and the crepe silk shirt and plunges deep into the churning sea. The water silvers her ears, and as she surges forwards, gasping at the taste of the salt and the shock of the cold, at the silkiness of the water sliding past her, she knows that this is where she wants to be. Later, as she reaches the top of her cliffs, her phone rings. It's the hospital. She's on call in four hours, and her registrar is phoning to flag up a difficult case that has already presented in AE. Three months' notice she'll have to serve, but then she'll be back. She takes one last look at the beach, then heads inland towards the A30 and her now temporary reality. You know, I can really see the appeal of swimming on a secret day off. Like that's something that I enjoy doing on my own. Yeah, I can imagine you doing that. Yeah. Yeah, which I know not everyone feels like that, but th there's other things as well that feel like just really safe to do on your own, like visiting a gallery or a museum. Like no one bats an eyelid if you're there. Everyone's kind of involved in what it is that they're seeing. So yeah, that's other things I'd do. What would you do on a um on a secret day off? Probably I'd be more likely to go to a a town or a city on my own. So there's stuff, there's things to do. And I I like that kind of wandering around, doing going into the shops, maybe a gallery or a museum or something just that I want to do and spending as much time as I want to go in there. Probably because I've just spent years dragging children around things, you know, and with them saying, No, can we go now? How much longer? You've got your time back, yeah. Yeah, yeah. And actually, I was reading about our sponsor Titanic Belfast, which is very much a family-friendly attraction. But I was thinking imagining myself there because I was really drawn to the artifacts that they have and can completely imagine losing myself for a few hours. Do you know they have like passenger lists and the last lunch menu that was served on the on the day the ships sank? So you can see all this, it's very fine French cuisine. So this is obviously for the first class passengers. It was like a fine hotel, wasn't it? Completely. Oh, it was really luxury. Yeah. They've got the actual tableware, the original White Star Line, fine China. Wow. Yeah. Amazing, isn't it? So um definitely worth a visit, and we'll give the details for for where you can find find out more again in the show notes and at the end of the episode. But another kind of you know, more sociable favourite thing to do for me, and I think you'll be on board with this one, is going for a walk in a pint in a pub beer garden. I mean, that's like my favourite way to spend a day. I don't know if I've said that before. Yeah. Um, but yeah, there's there's nothing I love more than a walk in a pint and a really nice pub garden because I've been thinking about this recently because the weather's getting nicer. Yeah. And I like it, I like it when it's just quite simple. Just like a, you know, when I went to Yorkshire recently and they just had like picnic tables outside the front of pubs in towns, just sitting out and watching the world go by and talking to people as they go past. Like it's really sociable, isn't it? Because you guys you often have to squeeze onto a picnic bench with someone else. Yeah. And inevitably you end up chatting, I've I find. And and that's just these kind of nice little chats. They're lovely, aren't you? You don't get them at many other times with strangers. Yeah, that's true. We did a looking back feature. We often do these, don't we, in the magazine where we kind of look at the history, the the quirky history of something about pub gardens. And so it was interesting because they're saying it's impossible to accurately date the beginning of roofless drinking in Britain because it, you know, it ties back to like village greens in the Middle Ages. But the actual formal beer gardens is easier to date. So in 16th century Bavaria, um, people loved beer in these predominantly wooden buildings and they often caught fire. Oh, really? Yeah. So the government said that they had to close in the driest months from May to September. And so they encouraged them to build these riverside cellars to preserve the beers and yeah. The beer, yeah. And on the surface, they were planted trees to ensure that it was sheltered from the sun and to keep everything cool. And so these became the places for people to spend time above the cellars where their beer was being brewed. And they they that was where the modern beer garten was born. So interesting. It had to be in Germany, didn't it? It did have to be in Germany, yeah. Yeah, that's very interesting. And I think, you know, uh all my favourite pubs have probably got a got some kind of a an outside space. Yeah. But they've they've they've kind of, you know, you obviously the you've got the ones with just the picnic benches, but you know, I love it when they've got like a little outdoor bar or a pizza oven or something, and somewhere even you know, for the kids to play, and or you know Yeah, or if there's an amazing view, like if it's next to water or an incredible view or something like that, it really makes it, doesn't it? Yeah, makes going, you know, having a walk and going and sitting there just feel like part of your, you know, an important part of your outing. But also we need to, we need to support our pubs, don't we? Because I was actually reading very recently that in the first quarter of 2026, pubs have been closing at a rate of almost two a day. I know you hear these things, you got it's hard to imagine, isn't it? It is, but we've had quite a few, I mean, you see a lot of empty pubs, don't you? But we've had some really um great kind of um community pubs open near us. And it's take it's taken quite a long time, but literally pubs that have got you know lists on the walls of you know two or three hundred owners, you know, because everybody is just club club together, which is an amazing thing to do, isn't it? And we've we've featured one, haven't we, in in our June issue. Yeah, I love a community pub. And yeah, I I spoke to one of the many people behind this community-owned pub in Neffin on the Clyn Peninsula in North Wales, and I'm gonna try and pronounce this it's uh Tefan uh Helio. Is that the name of the pub? That's the name of the pub, so that means the Hunter's Tavern. Yeah, so it's it now serves as this cultural hub, West Affspeak Welsh, and the pub hosts regular sort of Welsh language lessons and supports local um events and stuff. But it just feels like such um so important because it's such a close-knit community, and every penny that they make goes is either reinvested back into the business or it's used for the benefit of the community. So they're bringing back community events that haven't been seen in the village for over 30 years. They're raising money to repair the local slipway, you know, it's all like really just local important things. Really important stuff. That's great, isn't it? Because actually, I think it was pubs moved away from that and just became about somewhere to go and dine. And then obviously, dining out is becoming more and more expensive. A lot of people aren't drinking or don't want to go and you know, supermarket drink, you know, buying buying their drinks from supermarkets and having them at home. But actually, I think what one thing I read in that piece that I thought was really interesting and encouraging is like we don't you don't need to come and eat, you don't even need to come and drink alcohol. You can come and didn't she say you can come and have a glass of water, which Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's literally an affordable place for people to come, or free place for people to come and have a chat. And you know, she talked about how it's one of those places where you you when you go in, it sounds scary, but it's not when you go in and everyone turns around. And it's like if they know you, you get this massive welcome. And if they don't, they want to get to know you. And by the end, like every every person in the pub's having this in the same conversation, and you know, it could be you could be talking to people in their 70s, you could be talking to people in their 20s. I'm like, I love pubs like this. Yeah, me too. And I love it when you've got the kind of band of regulars, you know, that you know, and and they will be. I mean, you do get this more, I think, probably in in rural areas than in than in cities, but in you do you get it in neighborhoods. Oh, you can find them, you can find them in cities, yeah. You do find them in neighborhoods actually as well, don't you? Where you know you can see, you know, different generations of the same family popping in and out, and everyone kind of knows each other and they remember the kids from when they were little. But no, I'm I'm going to uh there were these two pubs that I definitely are new to community pubs, both actually with great gardens close to me, one in in villages close to me that I'm definitely going to be supporting. I'll do the right honourable thing and go and the right honourable thing and go and have a pint. Yeah, exactly. But I also like just spending time in my own garden in the sunshine. You know, you can't you can't beat that too. We had a my place, didn't we, which is on outdoor kitchens in a oh, it's in the issue that's out now, isn't it? Amazing, yes. Where we sort of share pictures of people's really inspiring spaces. But yeah, outdoor kitchens, I think that's something that I've always wanted to have. I mean, more than a barbecue, like a proper space that you can go and just cook. Completely. Yeah. And it's one of those things when you go camping, you often get, don't you? Yeah. And actually, I mean, camping is I never have, I've got I've literally got a two two-ring stove. I'm always envious of people that have got the full kit. We once went on holiday. We were in Italy, actually. We we rented a house that had a fully outdoor, yeah, the whole thing was outdoors. The the the all the crockery, the glasses, the cupboards, the pans, everything was outside. It has to be somewhere warm, doesn't it? It has to be somewhere hot. There was a very small indoor kitchen, but we loved it and we still talk about it. And at first we're a bit like, God, you know, what about the bugs? And is it going to be, you know, is it gonna be too hot? But it was incredibly, you know, shade, well shaded and just the right temperature. It was just so, it was so lovely. But I do cook and you know, on a barbecue outside a lot in the in the summer months. We're lucky because actually our our terrace is very straight outside of the kitchen, it's very warm in the afternoons and evenings. So it's a really nice place to sit and have dinner and have a sundowner, but it actually is quite, it can get a bit too hot. So we've got to shade it and and be careful about what we plant there as well. Yeah, I think there's different ways, isn't there? Because um, there was a feature in the magazine a little while ago that will link to about how to harness the sun in your garden. Yeah. So, like what to do when you have these sun traps. So um, so like the warm sunshine brings out the scented oils in leaves, so you can plant more sort of Mediterranean herbs. And then you get these lovely scents. Yeah, I have lavender that you can really, you know, because it's so sunny, we really do get the scent of that. That's interesting. Yeah, but also like the plants can s absorb the sun's rays. So if you don't want it to be such a sun trap, you can train the plants to grow up the walls, uh, reduce hard landscaping, you know, have tender fruits, things like that. Yes, because that will make it cooler, won't it? Apparently, yes, these kind of fruit trees with the tender fruit things like peaches and apricots and um figs are gonna grow grow really well against walls, and that helps the heat that's kind of retained in the wall during the and in the during the day kind of keeps is good temperature in the evening, it releases that warmth, so they don't get that kind of stark contrast in temperature. Um, but also obviously if you've got a shady garden, you know, that's that's got to say because we've got both, we've got kind of loads of shade and shady beds down at the bottom, so we've got very different plants going on at the front than than down there, and we've got lots of ferns and and things that kind of get do well in that sort of dappled, dappled sunlight. But there's some really good tips um so in that in that piece about what to do to stop your plants drying out because it's and you know we're getting our summers are getting hotter, aren't they? And and we've got to be careful about water use. So there's some there's some good tips there. We've also did a piece on uh which I think is is great about sort of pick and mix things, like things that you can pick in your garden and use in your in your lovely summer cooking. So like edible it was edible flowers, wasn't it? Yeah, and I I have had a bit of go at this. I've got more things coming this year. So things like cornflowers, which are one of my favourite flowers. Yeah, they're one of my favourite flowers too. I I almost don't want to pick them because I I like them so much in the garden. But if I've got enough and they're so pretty in in a salad, because that gorgeous kind of blue colour, aren't they? Violet blue. And then um obviously pansies, which you know are are are really easy to to grow. All parts of the pansy can be consumed and violas. And they look amazing, don't they? And then they've they had some interesting recipes for like pansy crepes and pansy popsicles. I think lollies is one thing where this works really well because you can see them. Yeah, you can put them in in the crepe because I've never seen this before. A very thin pancake with um a little pansy in the middle. It looks so pretty. We've got a few um recipes, haven't we, on the blog as well. We've got sort of um cucumber mint and lemonade lollies, uh berry coconut lollies, um, and also watermelon slices on a lollystick, which is another take on it as well. Yeah, that's great. You know, if you just need to, if you want to make a quick lolly, you haven't got time to freeze it, you can just take some slices of watermelon, stick your lolly stick into the into the bottom, and then that's good fun, isn't it? Do you make lollies? Yeah, no, I do. I do, especially when um when my daughter's always asking for pudding, and you're like, yeah, you can have this. It's basically orange juice. Yeah. It feels like it feels like a pudding, doesn't it? And and she probably likes making them as well, doesn't she? Yeah, yeah. We have a lot of berries in the garden, so we sort of whiz them up with um yogurt and then turn them into really nice lollies. So I can do that soon once they start. Yeah, and actually on the I noticed on the blog there's one a cucumber mint the cucumber mint and lemonade one um can also be made with a shot of gin. So I was thinking that that could that's an instant grown-up kind of uh pudding for for the let's not get those mixed up in the freezer. No, well, that's true. Oh yeah. Different shell. Great, okay. Well, Joe, it's been so nice to chat to you. We've I don't know uh we've really kind of hopefully encapsulated the mood of of the first day of summer and and the sunshine and and all the kind of outdoor activities that it makes you kind of feel more inclined to do at this time of year. But we're also going to be wasting time. Every episode we've talked about the joy and pleasure and uh of wasting time and why wasting time is not time was I've just been thinking about spending more time actually just sitting and listening to music and going through some of my playlists and coming up, making some new ones to create a new kind of maybe sound, a couple of playlists and soundtracks for for this summer. Because I think that music is often like a background to what I'm doing rather than something that I'm really focusing on. So I was thinking about just spending a bit of time um sitting in my garden, hopefully, listening to music. Uh what about you? I'm gonna round up some people to play around us with. Oh, great. Can I come? Well, yeah, let's let's do this. Oh yeah, I think that'll be a really fun way to spend the summer. Yeah. I don't have to brush up on some rules, do you think? No, I think we'll just wing it. Wing it, yeah. Oh, well, it's so good to chat again, Joe, as always. Thank you. And thanks to Titanic Belfast, our sponsor for the podcast this season. You can follow them on Instagram at Titanic Belfast to hear more about these stories and the artifacts and all the different things that you can find out when you when you go to visit the attraction yourself. Next week, all three of us are coming back for the final episode. And I think it's this is actually our 50th episode. Can you believe that? Is it really? I didn't know that. Wow. Um, and we're going to be talking about dabbling in new things in a in a relaxed way, of course, because it's summer. Um, and also treasure hunts, tiny homes, and travelling with dogs. So join us next Sunday. Remember that if you subscribe to the podcast, you'll be notified when the next episode is out. And if you'd like to grab hold of a copy of our June issue, or the May one, in fact, um, and previous issues that we've talked about, you can find all the links to that in our show notes. And an immediate start subscription will see you get the June issue straight away. So bye from us both, and thank you very much for listening.