May Days - Episode 6 - DABBLE

Join The Simple Things’ Editor Lisa Sykes, Wellbeing Editor Rebecca Frankand Author of The Slow Traveller and regular contributor Jo Tinsley for the 60th episode of ‘Small Ways to Live Well’, delving into all the many ways we can dabble our way through the summer. 

If you are in the UK, you can try an immediate start subscription to the The Simple Things and receive the current issue straight away. We can send subscriptions anywhere in the world. Or buy current and back issues here

Thanks to our partner for Season 10, Titanic Belfast. You can find out more at titanicbelfast.com or follow them on instagram @titanicbelfast to hear some of their stories and discover how to visit for yourself.

Editing & music by Arthur Cosslett. 

In the June issue (168) 

Citizen science projects to join in with

Know a thing or two about… salt

Tiny home

Coming up… 

In July AMBLE issue on sale from 26 June

Letterboxing

Blank canvas interviews with people who create from scratch

In August MAGICAL issue, on sale from 24 July

Puzzle special and interviews with puzzle makers

Magical creatures of the sea

In previous issues, available at picsandink.com

Treasure hunts (Anthology Volume 4)

Sneak peeks – Step behind the scenes of museums and stately homes, factories and train stations (issue 119)

Open farms (issue 166)

Metal detectorists (issue 166)

Buy a back issue of Ernest journal 

On the blog

How to hunt for buried treasure

To do

Celebrate World Ocean Day

Ride the Mail Rail

Open Farm Sunday

National Garden Scheme 

Transcript

0:14

Hi, welcome to Small Ways to Live Well from the Simple Things, where a monthly magazine about slowing down now and again, remembering what's really important and making the most of what you have and where you live. And this is episode six, which is our last of the series. And I'm here with both my co-hosts today. We've got our slow traveller Joe Tinsley and we've got our well-being editor Bex Frank, as it's our 60th episode. We've not really done many with all three of us, so we'll we'll hopefully get through it. What could possibly go wrong? This season is supported by Titanic Belfast, which is a fascinating visitor experience telling the story of that famous ship, the people who built her, and the passengers and crew that sailed on her. It's on the original site where Titanic was designed, built, and launched in Belfast in 1911. And you can find out more at Titanicbelfast.com. So we said it was our 60th episode. And Bex may have said 50th last week, but I think she's been enjoying herself so much that time has flown by. Oops. Yeah, I know. The theme is dabble, and we're gonna make this a summer of dabbling and uh try things in a sort of relaxed way. Try new things in a relaxed way. So where should we start? What do you think about a treasure hunt, girls? Oh, we love them. I love a treasure hunt. Yeah, me too. I think what I like is it it gets you sort of outdoors, gives you permission to be a bit nosy, doesn't it? And in the summer, the better weather and more daylight, there's loads of time to do it in. Yeah, I think the thing that I really like about treasure hunts is normally you're doing them outside, aren't you? And I don't know, well, you just notice more things, don't you? Whether you're the person kind of devising the hunt or whether you're following it, when you're looking for clues or writing clues, you're you're naturally going to pick up different things in your environment that you wouldn't normally notice. And I think as well, like they're they're not they're not just for kids, are they? Like you've got so many adult versions, like you know, geocaching, orienteering, or like you know, there's old-fashioned village treasure hunts that always end up back at the pub. Yes. I love those. There's so many different things. Maybe that's why race across the world's been so popular. Yeah. Having just watched the uh final very recently, no spoilers here, but um but no, you're right. It basically is a treasure hunt, isn't it? Everyone likes finding clues and following trails and um, you know. And then that final race at the end. Yes. Exactly, yeah. Have you ever heard of letterboxing? That was one of the original kind of treasure hunts around the UK. Well, it it that is so strange, Joe, because actually I don't think you'll have seen this yet, but I had never heard of it. And then there's a piece coming up on it in our July issue. So we're gonna but but I but you've done this, haven't you? I think. Yeah, it's like the low-tech forerunner of geocaching. So it started on Dartmoor and it was a bit of a Victorian obsession. So it originated in, I think, 1854 when a local guide left left a glass jar in one of the moor's most remote locations for hikers to exchange calling cards, like set to send letters to each other. Okay. And um over the next century it evolved into this outdoor treasure hunt that everyone really got into. And there's 3,000 of these hidden weatherproof boxes scattered across the moors, generally on the tops of the tours as well, on the granite peaks. I love the sound of this. I hadn't heard of this at all. So it's not just in Dartmoor now. It is all over, it's mainly on Dartmoor, I think. But I mean I think I think there's lots of other places you can do it. But there's some really interesting ones. So, like the grandfather of them all is the one that started it, is in Crammall Pool. And this is where the guy, James Perrot, I think, left a glass jar. And then people would, yeah, swap, swap letters. But there's there's loads around Bonehill Rocks, which is near Whiddickam in the moor. And there's all the nooks and crannies, you know, you can just go and find loads of them there. So when you find them, what do you do? Do you kind of have to make a note in the box or something? Or yeah, so originally people would put it was like a wilderness post system. So people would put a letter in there and someone else would take the letter and they'd they'd you know post it on. Yeah. Uh but nowadays I think there's like a there's a logbook, there's a stamp, there's an ink pad. You might put a little gift or trinket in there, you might take one. Each one will have different kind of rules, but it's kind of evolved. So some of them will be the original kind of you know, mess tins or or whatever, and then others will be Tupperwares. Sounds good. It's like it is like geocaching, isn't it? It is like, yeah, it's like a low, lo-fi geocaching. It sounds great. And you know what? You're just talking about Dartmoor got me thinking while you were chatting. I don't I just don't know Dartmoorly at all. You know, there's some places in the country that you've just never really been to. I mean you'd love it. It really reminds me of the North. That's why I like it. Yeah, and I'm I'm gonna have to put that on my list because I feel like it's a big, a big area that I just don't really know. Right. Yeah. There's an idea. But Joe, you you were telling me about this other one, and which I do remember, the hunt for the golden hair. Because didn't I get in the news? Yeah, so this is this is the masquerade treasure hunt. And there might be people, perhaps some of our older listeners, who are like remembering this one. So hey, steady on, watch who you're calling older hair, right? Because it happened just before I was born. Well, I can't remember it, so I think that makes me young. Oh big. Yeah, so this was spot by British artist called Kit Williams in 1979, and it became this high-profile ending to it because the person who found it cheated and it became a bit of a scandal. So he illustrated children's books and he published this one called Masquerade, and it was beautifully illustrated, and it contained hidden clues that pointed to the exact location of a buried 18 karat gold jeweled hair amulet. So this was actual treasure, right? Yeah. You know that's worth a lot of money. Yes, proper valuable treasure, yeah. So people knew that the clues were in this book. Yeah. But the thing is they were really, really difficult. So it it involved drawing straight lines from the eyes of characters through the longest digits to letters on the border pages. Wow. It was it was really involved. But millions of people got involved in this. And they um it pointed eventually to the monument of Catherine of Aragon in Amp Hill Park in Bedfordshire, where he'd buried this treasure. But there was this controversy towards the end because the person who dug it up was actually, I think it was this person, this business partner's girlfriend was Kit Williams' ex-girlfriend. Wow. They'd remembered the location, they'd remembered going digging there, and he just used a metal detector to find it. So, and it was only like days before other people who had worked it out had found it. And um, yeah, the the artist withdrew from public eye for decades. You can imagine that now would be massive on social media. The thing is though, with treasure, people don't necessarily share their findings as much, do they? Because they want to be the one to find it. So I'm not sure there'll be much collaboration. No, but maybe a bit more misleading on social media. But we love a treasure map though, don't we? Yeah, but you know, we did a piece, didn't we, on treasure hunts and the different types that you can do, and yes, and um there was a little box on that, and I was I was reading about the pirate treasure map, and I was really disappointed to hear that actually the whole kind of X marks the spot map that Treasure Island starred is actually a bit of a myth, really. Oh, really? Yeah. Oh, that's a bit sad, isn't it? You wanted to have an Exxon. Yeah, the old seafaring maps and charts would have resembled that, and obviously, pirates would have used that kind of map to look for the ships that were carrying the treasure. But in terms of the, you know, there being an X Marx spot, we think they think that's more fictional, really. Well, I used to draw them when I was a kid. I liked treasure maps, and mine always had an Exxon. And it I just I remembered about that, you know, I used to hide things in our garden. We had this kind of, it was like a semi-detached house, but it had a really long garden that was a bit overgrown and an allotment behind it. And so there were lots of hiding places, and I would hide stuff and then give do a map for my family to kind of find the cleans. And uh yeah, you know, that was ours of fun in a summer holiday. Did you dye your map with tea to make it look old? And I used to do that. Did you? I'm not sure I went that far. Set fire to it round the edges. Yeah, that would that would be definitely the way I would go. But you know, we we feel good when we find treasure, and I I think Bex has probably got some good will-being kind of know-how here of why why that is. Well, it's all about solving puzzles and yeah, obviously, the achievement that we feel when we solve something and the chemicals, the reward chemicals that our brain releases when that happens. But interestingly, it's also about the fact that we have this very large cortex, the front part of our brain, it by in comparison to most mammals. And that's the area of the brain that's all about planning and and solving things. So we like this kind of challenge is is what our brains need and craze. Interesting, yeah. And it also is really good for our cognitive function, which you've probably heard about. Does this also figure with when you're doing puzzles like Sudoku or word challenges? Yeah, same thing. Absolutely, yeah. It's not about the prize, it's more about the solving that kicks the chemicals in it, yeah. Yes, it's both really, but the solving is what will keep the brain kind of um functioning to its at its best ability and keep that cognitive function so that you know, preventing the the decline and the memory loss and um keeping our brains sharp and our thinking sharp and alert. So that's why it's recommended, you know, to keep challenging the brain in different ways like that. We're doing a puzzle special in our August issue over the summer. Oh, nice. Yeah, we're gonna be having a bump of puzzles because we know people like puzzles and holidays are a good time. But I think are you gonna be talking to some people or someone in the team is going to be talking to some people who m set puzzles, which is like even more advanced, isn't it? You know, yeah, there's gonna be one of our uh wisdom interview features, which is four people who do create their uh different types of puzzles, and then I'm gonna be looking into the well-being and kind of brain like we were just talking about, the benefits of doing that. Do you like a puzzle? Yeah, I do, and you know what? The more stressed out I am, the more I turn to Sudoku World Channel. I find they block out everything you don't want to think about. Yeah, because you're concentrating. Yeah, and actually sometimes you just need to stop thinking, don't you? Um to let side of your subconscious work it out rather than you be fretting over it. And so I find they're great for that. How about you, Jo? Do you do any puzzles? I don't really know. If it's anything to do with numbers, I'm not that into it. But if if it's if it's pattern recognition, do you know what I mean? If it was like building patterns, I can I can do them. Because the thing is Sudoku, people think it's about numbers, and that's all about patterns, really. They just happen to be numbers in the in the patterns. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. At some point I'll probably get into it, but yeah, not right now. But Joe, you like to compile a puzzle of types, don't you? Tell us about your treasure hunt, treasure hunts. I like to set treasure hunts for people. I've done about three of these recently. So, you know, when you're in a place, this happens on social media quite a lot, when you're in a place and someone's like, Oh, I'm coming there down there tomorrow, it's really fun to leave them a treasure hunt to hide them some buried treasure. Yeah. So um, a friend of mine, the editor of um Outdoor Swimmerella, she left one for my daughter because we were arriving in Foy the day that she was leaving. So she set up this whole treasure hunt. It involved going into shops and like looking at different aspects out of windows and things like that. Yeah. And we eventually found this necklace, which was really, really special. But yeah, I did it for a friend and neighbour who was coming down to the place that I was going. And I also did it for Lisa when I stayed at your house, didn't I, recently? Yeah. I was gonna say, you're gonna mention I I this was so good because basically Joe was staying at our house and we were away. And it was also my birthday, wasn't it? So you left me a treasure hunt to do on my birthday morning, which was the most fun. It was great. I love that. So clever. I had a brilliant treasure hunt left for me once. I mean, the thing is, with it, if it's in your own home, you know the clues are gonna stay where they are, but if it's somewhere out in public, you don't, you never there's always that slight risk, isn't there, that someone's gonna find it or move it before you. Where was yours then? Mine, you're not gonna believe it. Mine was in Gozo off the the island off Malta. Wow. Found out my friend, my literally my oldest school friend and I had booked completely independently to go to the same small town in Gozo one week after the other. This was a good few years ago when our kids were quite small. And she loves this kind of thing, so she left me a treasure hunt. It's too tempting. Yeah, and so our whole family in in probably like 38-degree heat because it was so hot over there. Wow. Followed this into this really extensive treasure hut round this town that she'd spoken to. We had to go and talk to waiters and people in guest houses. They must have thought she was mad. Yeah, I had to go and ask for you know, somebody by name who would then have kept it in, you know, they had a little box that they kept in there underneath the counter in the shop or something. It was really fun. It was really fun. And at the end, we ended up in a toy shop and the kids all got a present from the toy shop. So it was really sweet. Nice. I think this got to be treasure, and Joe, very nicely, because it was Easter time, you had left me a little mini Easter egg with every clue I found. And there were 10 clues, so it was a good day, all of Easter eggs, and a nice bottle of wine at the end. Joe, do you want to come and stay in my house next time I'm aware? I like the sort of coming back to that. Yeah. But what I like, Joe, is that you you left me clues that you knew I would get because of I was knowing each other and stuff. So the the one that I liked there was an apex pond predator on a lovely round mug. And you and I have had long conversations about dragonfly larvae at the bottom of pond scoffing everything. So I knew what that was. And then, of course, a uh a grand cycle race around God's own country, which had to be the tour de Yorkshire. Jigsaw, yeah, yeah. So that it was great. It was really good fun. In fact, I'm gonna keep the clues and maybe do it from someone else, but they may not get all the answers, of course. But yeah, but there's something nice about looking at your own home through someone else's eyes as well, which I think is quite fun. But we should mention as well, you know, because sorry, I should say to listeners that we'll put lots of links to things we mentioned from the magazine on our show notes and also anything on our blog or things we've read. So you'll find all those on the app that comes with your podcast. But we did this piece on metal detectorists, didn't we, earlier this year? And there's a blog that we've done on that. Speaking of buried treasure, I know it how to hunt for buried treasure, and because they're really having a bit of a moment, and these two women, they really kind of have brought it to a whole new audience, I think, haven't they? Yeah, and they make these great videos and they've got this big social media following, and they're they're just not what you expect from metal detectorists at all. It's really inspiring, actually, some of the things that they found and what you can classify as treasure and not, and there's a great blog post about how to hunt for buried treasure because anyone can do it, obviously. Yeah, you know, all you need is you know, you get a simple metal detector and uh you know some tips. What I like is it's not just about the finding of it, you then have to research it and find out what it is, and you know, there's a whole after project, isn't there, which is great. Yeah, yeah, no, I I love this. So um, I I don't know why we were going to talk about this, but it's another puzzle, of course. Mazes. We were gonna talk about mazes. Do you like a maze? Oh, well, you're telling me that you love a maze. I do. Yeah. Didn't you go to an open garden that had a great maze? Yeah, yeah. About a week ago. And I've been to it before, but this one, it's on a hill leading down the it's a beautiful garden. It's a private garden, it's not open very often, and it's on it on a slope that looks down towards the South Downs. And so you can actually stand above the maze and see it from above. So when you see it from above, you think, Oh, I know this route. Yeah, yeah, it looks so easy, doesn't it? Yeah, and then you go in it and you lose all sense of direction like within seconds. Yeah, yeah, no, and it's not even a very big maze. There's a there's a um a farm near us that does a maze maze every summer, and we've always gone there with the kids. And I can't I think every single time we've got hopelessly lost, and then someone needs the loo, and you have to put the hand of shame up and ask the guy to come and let you out. And it's like, but you like a maze though, don't you? I love a maze. We think we used to go to them when I was kids. I've got very fond memories of running around maze in in gardens. There would always be in some, like you said, some kind of fancy garden somewhere. But and the Opal open gardens kind of you know thing is great, isn't it? I love being able to go and have a nosy around and get some inspiration, but also just it's just such a seeing something from a completely different Definitely. And you know, because if you do it under like the National Garden Scheme, there's like you know, three and a half thousand of them, so you can always find one near you. And you know, I think they really vary. Some are like really grand, really big, and others are quite small, but they really know their plants, and so you can kind of pick one that suits you. And is that certain weekends of the year then, or is it just is it just run all the time? Well, no, it's some some villagers do it on a certain weekend, yeah. Or towns as well, but that then the National Garden Scheme Pete, you can get a little book or online which lists the ones in your area and the dates they're open because some do like twice a year, some do one in spring and one in summer, so it's really varied. But this one I went to, you know, I went there on Friday afternoon because they were just doing it on the on the like three till five. So I played Truump from Work and finished early, and it was such a nice way to start the weekend. Just like, you know, it really switches off from work and into the weekend. It was great. So I'm gonna do some more. Nice to do it on a before it gets busier at the weekend as well. But you know, we have our own little version of that on our road, the open gardens thing. Do you? Yeah, because all our gardens kind of run down from the house. We live on a on a terrace and all the gardens go down, and they all have a we all have a back gate onto a lane at the bottom. So it lends itself to that. And um, on a one afternoon in June, um on a Sunday, we all open our, or if you want to, you open your back gate and then people wander up and down each other's gardens. Oh, that's really nice. And you know, it's just they don't have to be like fancy. It's just you guys that do it. You don't invite people in. No. Yeah, yeah, nice. No, unless people have got guests, but no, it's just us. Yeah, and it was just nice. All the kids run up and down the gardens, people make a jug of pims, or sometimes, you know, some biscuits or and what a lovely idea. And then everyone kind of congregates in one of the gardens at the end. But it's not when I was at first I was kind of worried that my garden would need to be smarter or I'd need to have if someone was asking me about my plants, I'd need to be kind of brushed up on what they were. Actually, it's not about that, and it's just it's just a lovely thing to do, a nice social occasion. You see, I could see you doing that in your little hamlet, Joe. Yeah, if my garden was a bit nicer, I think I'd worry about that. It is the sociability thing as much as anything though, isn't it? Yeah, definitely. But there's loads of other things you can do, actually, isn't there? Because there's like all those artist trails and open studios that open as well. Yeah, I love those. There's loads, actually, isn't there? Like um, you can always get these sneak peek experiences at theatres and museums and factories and historic houses and things like that. Oh, they're great. Because museums, like what you see is only a fraction of what they've got on display. Yeah. So a lot of it is in drawers or old sketches, and like a lot of it's really interesting stuff. And especially if you're doing it at night, like you imagine looking around, I don't know, like a natural history museum at night. It's got that real sort of feeling of discovery. Yeah, yeah. Have you been to the Natural History Museum, Jo, and done the behind the scenes? Because I've done it, and you get to actually handle some of the drawings and stuff, like you know, Audubon and things from the Beagle, and you well, not actually handle them. Somebody in special gloves does that, but you get to get really close to them. It's quite amazing. And they are literally opening drawers and pulling things out of boxes, and you know, it's very cool. That's amazing. Yeah, a friend of mine has um he's offered to show me the UK Hydrographic office or part of it, because they've got this amazing old Shackleton maps. Wow. And like considering I'm I made an indie magazine and named after Ernest Shackleton. Yes. I I feel like I need to go. I'm gonna give a little plug here, Joe, because it I I want to explain, because Joe launched and edited a magazine called Ernest, and it was so full of fascinating stories and curious findings, and we're actually still selling the back issues of that on our online shop, Pixanique.com. I think you're probably the only stocker selling it. Yeah. Honestly, I loved it. Because I, you know, I used to work at the Royal Geographical Society because I edited their magazine, and uh it was such a treasure trove of artifacts, and back then, you know, they hadn't the it wasn't so digitized, and and literally there were things not quite lying around, but definitely dotted around the place. So, like, you know, Livingston's compass when they were searching for the source of the Nile and the cap he wore when he famously met Stanley, and apparently they didn't say, you know, Dr. Livingston, I presume, and that was a bit of a myth. Oh, another myth. But you know, they did actually meet. I know. Apparently they've got some oxygen sets from the the early attempts to summit Everest and you know, loads of photographs and portraits and things. But the one I really liked, you'll like this being magazine people like me. There was a copy of the South Polar Times, right? Which it was an in-house magazine that was typed and hand illustrated, yeah, and produced in Antarctica on Scott's Expedition, and Shackleton was the editor of it. And the idea was just to relieve the boredom while they were waiting out the winter. But how amazing is that that something like that survived. I love it. I know. Yeah, there are so many things you can do. Right. I like the backstage theatre tours. Oh. I just think that because I I used to love kind of dancing, performing, acting when I was a child, and and I think it still comes back to me that excitement of coming out on stage. Yes. And I like the thought of looking in the dressing rooms and looking at the, you know, behind the scenes, the costumes and the props and thinking about who might have been there. And there's just that old kind of glamour about it, isn't there, in one of the kind of incredible old theatres. Yeah, you're literally in in their footsteps, aren't you, when you go into the stage. Yeah. But I'd also quite like to do a kind of train, oh, underground one. I know you can go to these sort of abandoned train stations and walk through the tunnels. And you there's quite a lot of them are used for film locations as well, you know. At London Transport Museum, they do these hidden London tours, and I I quite fancy that it makes me a little bit scared going the thought being deep underground, but and in a kind of way that I'm quite excited to do it. Yeah, they've got one at the um postal museum, haven't they? Which I haven't done, but I'd really, really like to do. Oh yes. Which is like the the uh mail rail, which is a hundred-year-old driverless narrow gauge underground railway that wants to transport mail beneath London. So you can still ride that. You can still ride that, yeah. Yeah, I'd love to do that. Let's do it. Yeah. We should do that. You know, we should make our next planning meeting around doing that. We should. Yes, that would be good. Yeah. I think it'd be fun. You know, it's a good opportunity for you to meet me to mention our sporter this season. Because Titanic Belfast is very much a behind-the-scenes visitor attraction. And they've got loads of artifacts and interactive exhibits that can explore, you know, the build, the launch, the maiden voyage, and of course the sinking and the legacy of the ship. I mean, you know, I haven't been yet, but talking about it a lot this season, I really want to, because I reckon you can get a real sense of it on the actual site when she was built. I'm gonna tell you about the some of the stories because I don't think I've told you about this, but one of the most famous stories, of course, is the romance of Jack and Rose in the film Titanic. But spoiler alert, they aren't real. Yeah, I didn't think so. There are lots of spoilers in this episode. But there were some real love stories aboard Titanic, including 14 honeymooning couples, which is obviously a little bit sad, isn't it? But one story did make it into the screenplay a little bit. So this woman, Kate Florence Phillips, she was 19 and she was on Titanic with the owner of the shop she worked for, Henry Morley. He was 20 years older than her, with a wife and child, no judge. Oh, and they weren't on the boat. No, and they were eloping to America to start a new life together, right? Oh wow. So he gave her this sapphire diamond necklace called Love of the Sea, which of course there's a necklace famously in the in the film, isn't it? Yeah. And he didn't survive, but Kate did. Yeah. And the necklace. She gave birth to their daughter Ellen a few months later. So there you go. That's where yeah, where it must come from. I know, i it's an interesting story, isn't it? But there there's loads of these human stories on Titanic, and obviously you can read some of them at TitanicBelfast.com, or follow them on Instagram at Titanic Belfast, or get yourself over there and have a look at it. The one at one tour I went on that we really enjoyed. David's my partner's dad is a big Man United fan, as am I. We went for a tour around Old Trafford. Oh, did you go to the ground? Yeah, it was great. My son and husband have done that. It's so good because you get to sit in the dressing room, which is surprisingly small. It it feels like it was designed by Big Brother to be a really tense space, you know, before they go out on the field. Yeah. Then you get to step out through the tunnel like the players, and it's what you were saying, Bex. It's that theatre of dreams experience, isn't it? You know, you kind of get to like pretend you're that person briefly. Yeah, exactly. In that moment, you're that person, and the crowds are all shouting for you. Definitely. But yeah, I I mean, we were going to talk about dabbling, is about giving things a go, Jo. And I know you've just been writing this piece about blank canvas people, haven't you? Which is quite interesting. Yeah. About not being afraid of starting something afresh. Tell us a bit about who you've been talking to. This was a really interesting feature. I really enjoyed this. So this is um, I think it's for our wisdom, regular wisdom feature. So this is the idea of like whether it's an empty page, a chunk of bare stone, a clean bolt of fabric, staring at a blank canvas invites those feelings of sort of pressure and limitless possibility. So we spoke to four different creative women who shared their approach to this universal experience. So there was a stone sculptor, a textile designer, an interior designer, and a children's poet. And what I really found interesting is that everyone approached it a really different way. So there was Alice Cunningham, who's a sculptor living in Somerset, and she says when she approaches a raw piece of stone, it feels really scary and humbling because she's got this enormous piece of marble that feels intimidating because it's exquisite and she doesn't want to waste it. And so she starts by making loads of models working in clay until she just literally feels this urgency where she has to start working on the rock. So it's like it kind of builds up in her, and then she has to get it. Oh, interesting. That must be so intimidating, you know. Yeah, because it's really expensive, isn't it? Having it a big piece of rock. Yeah, exactly. You don't want to mess it up, do you? Yeah. But then there was a textile designer, Sarah Campbell, who a lot of people might know, but she doesn't see it as scary, she sees it as this wonderful opportunity because she says, by the time I'm facing that piece of paper with my brush ready, I'm pretty sure I'm going to make some kind of mark. I might not know where it's going, but I'm excited. And she says, you know, if it's if it's if she struggles with it, she kind of creeps up on herself. So she might make a sketch on a corner of an envelope, or she might set herself some constraints, or or like she welcomes the constraints. So it might be that there's a certain repeat size or a colour palette or a designated fabric that you can only use in a certain way, and that helps kind of minimize it. Yes. I imagine having some parameters helps a bit, doesn't it? You know, yeah, yeah, yeah. I I I try to definitely find that when I'm writing something. Yeah. Then there was um the poet, uh Nadine Aisha Jassat, and she was saying she just lets her mind be completely free because there's so much in life that feels constrained, whereas poetry is this place that's solely of the imagination. And so she says there's something magical in that first draft. Like you're literally discovering the poet for yourself, you're following the joy of the story unfolding. But she still sets constraints too. Making your mind free is hard though, isn't it? It just I was gonna say that's the challenge in itself. How do you guys feel when you look at a blank page or something? I think if I was writing a poem, I'd feel much more intimidated than if I was writing a piece of creative writing. But I guess you'd expect that because that's you know sort of what we do. Yeah, I don't think any of us are scared of a blank page and filling it with words, otherwise. I still am. I think we're not scared of it, but I feel more intimidated like starting a new book, like st or starting a new feature than a drawing or a poem because I don't have to do well at that. Do you know? I mean, you can just play if you were just doing a drawing. I understand that. Whereas you feel that kind of pressure of time, or you know, you've got to do it well. So I guess it's just yeah, letting go of that. And often getting started is the hardest thing, isn't it? Yeah. But drawing's much more scary. I, you know, thinking I'm gonna sit down and draw something rather than I'm gonna start writing something for me, but of course that's the point. It's different for everyone, isn't it? Oh yeah, for me too, completely. I mean, if I was on my own, like you said, no, I thought no one was gonna look at it, I wouldn't mind so much, but I wouldn't just probably wouldn't be as likely to do it. Once I was um I was in a group, we were doing some kind of activity and we were played some music and asked to just paint, colour, whatever. We had some pens, whatever we felt the music, you know, whatever we felt inspired to by the music. And I was just, I just froze, I bet. I would I was freezing you just say it. I was really trying hard not to look at what other people were doing. And then I was looking, they all seemed to be like really busy, you know, kind of making these incredible, huge kind of pictures. And then I thought, right, I'm just gonna close my eyes and just kind of and just sort of try and feel it and do it. And I did do something. Well, poetry, you know, being asked to write a poem, I think would bring me out in a cold sweat. But the other thing, and I know you two won't think this, but like creating a recipe from scratch, you know, very interweed. We've talked about this before, but I just the thought of you know having to write a recipe down or just think of a recipe from scratch, can't do it. I can't even follow a recipe. Or what makes something with your ingredients that are in your fridge. Yeah, that's I find that really hard, you know. Well, I think that's interesting, isn't it? Everyone has their own blank canvas fears, but there's lots of good tips in there about how to kind of approach that. I think one of the things that's interesting is that everyone assumes that you can look at the blank canvas of your home of a room and know what to do with it. Whereas that's actually a job that people get paid to do with interior design. Yeah. I often think that. Yeah. And it's actually it's really hard to know where to start because I I've done it previously in other homes, but in my house, which is really, really old, like I can't fit IKEA stuff in here, I can't fit mid-century modern stuff in here. Like, I don't know, it's the sort of place that needs this kind of posh threadbare inherited furniture and antique ones that I can't afford. Or have the time to go searching for. Yeah, exactly. So yeah, so I don't know what to do with it. I know. I wish I could I'd love to have an interior designer come and help me do colour, colour matching and just think about a cut- I'd love to have a colour palette for my house. What about that tiny home though, in our in our uh which issue is it? It's our June issue. Yeah, so she she, I mean, it's tiny, isn't it? It's um I can't remember the dimensions, but it's basically a size of a trailer. It's 5.5 by 2.5 metres. There you go. You've researched this joke. Yeah, gosh, that is really small, isn't it? She built it as well, not only designed it, you know, but and actually, and it's really clever, isn't it? All the little storage areas and she squeeze, you know, she's got a compost loo in there and a little bathroom and a mezzanine bed, but it and it just looked, I mean, definitely only for one person, I think. I definitely couldn't move my family in there, but I do I think most people would look at it and have a moment of thinking, oh, yeah, my fantasy just to be in there somewhere where you know, just to be so easy so much easier, wouldn't it? And I mean, then you know, all the time you spend kind of just looking for things or you know, tidying up, or I don't know, everything's just it has a place and and it's really beautifully done. The only time I've had that, I mean, it wasn't that tiny, but I I lived in a quite a small attic flat when I was in Brighton. And it was, you know, I was single, I was living on my own, and I had like everything had a place. I had four plates, I had four wine glasses, a small set of cutlery, yeah, just enough stuff. Oh, it was so peaceful. It was so peaceful. I love it. And yeah, a friend and um neighbour of mine is that I'm in a book club with, she's got a house like that. She's got like an outbuilding in one of our neighbours' houses, and it's been done up with scaffolding. So it's got like spiral staircases and scaffold floors, and she's just she's you know, finishing a PhD in there, and she's filled it with books and fairy lights and colourful artwork, and she calls it the studio Ghibli House. I love that. That sounds amazing. Yeah. That's where we have our book club, and we just go there and it just feels so so great because it's packed, it's not minimal, but everything has a place, which is just really nice. And I think that's why we all like camper vans and caravans, and you know, because they give you that little taste of it, don't they, even if you don't live there permanently. And yeah, we we all think we could do it, but I I know I'd end up putting loads of clutter in there. I I just would I think it's just built in. But you can only do it when you arrive with a small bath, can't you? Yeah, exactly. But the great thing about her house as well, because I was thinking the you know, with a camper van or a uh canal boat or something, you're on the move all the time. So you're in a small space, but your scenery is changing. But she can move her house around as well. Yeah. So um, you know, might see it on the motorway one day because she actually tries it on a trailer. No, you're right, because if it's tiny, maybe that doesn't matter if you move where it is, because then you're changing you've got the variety in your location, haven't you, as opposed to different rooms? Interesting. Anyway, I think it's time for our read aloud original short story. And as a reminder to listeners, we commission one for every issue of The Simple Things. So this is one about someone who's been brave and dabbling in something she hasn't done for ages. The smell of chlorine as I pushed through the turnstile took me straight back to school swimming lessons, standing on the side of the pool, staring down into the water and shivering with fear and cold as I waited for my turn to jump. I nearly turned round and walked out. I had to force myself to carry on into the changing room. But to my relief, there were cubicles. I didn't have to undress in public. It took some tugging and wriggling to squeeze myself into my old swimming costume. I looked down at the shiny scar that snaked its way across my leg. The skin puckered around it. I hope no one asked me how I'd got it. Half the swimming pool had been roped off. Over on the far side, swimmers were ploughing through the lanes at a determined pace. The near side was full of women, older women with folds of soft dimpled flesh, young women whose skin blossomed with tattoos, skin colours ranging from the richest of browns to the pastiest of whites, patterned the turquoise water. Women bouncing gently up and down were chatting happily in a variety of languages, and not one of them so much as glanced at my scar. Leaving my flip-flops next to a row of other shoes, I made my way cautiously to the steps. The tiles were a little slippery and my stomach muscles contracted. The accident had made me nervous about falling. I lowered myself slowly into the water, gasping at the temperature. You'll warm up once you get moving, a woman nearby smiled encouragingly. It's a long time since I went swimming, I explained, sounding more apologetic than I meant to. I can't swim. Never learnt how. She laughed and tucked a stray curl back into the frilly pink shower hat she was wearing as a swimming cap. I have to stay in the shallow end, of course, but I love it. I never miss a class. Are you ready? A slim young woman in a navy tracksuit called out as she switched on a boombox at the edge of the pool. Suddenly the austere hall reverberated to a syncopated Latin beat. The teacher began to step from side to side, pumping her arms, and the women in the shallow end followed suit. I missed the Zumba classes I'd gone to before the accident, but I didn't see how they could be replicated in a swimming pool. Moving awkwardly through the water, I found myself a space next to the cordon. A man with mirrored goggles and a look of grim concentration raced past me on the other side, splashing water into my face. I turned spluttering to face the instructor. Pushing out against the weight of the water wasn't easy, but suddenly I was buoyant. I could lunge and dip and leap and kick, and no one could see if I was out of time or making the wrong move. No one could see my legs, with only the water frothing and foaming as I splashed about like a little kid. I found myself laughing with the pure joy of it. I sent an arc of crystal drops cascading over the cordon, and they landed in the open mouth of the racer, who had paused to gaze admiringly up at the sacheting instructor. His mouth snapped shut, but to my surprise he smiled at me before swimming off. We were bobbing and bouncing and bending as the music rose, and all at once, splash, I was leaping up out of the water, into the air, hands above head, clapping and calling with the other ladies of the shallow end, singing together, Viva Me Vida. I think that story's a good reminder to get back in the water, isn't it? Very appropriate. As tomorrow, if you're listening to this on the day we come out, is World Oceans Day, it's the 8th of June. And I reckon I'm gonna make that the first day this year that I take a summer dip in the sea. But I bet you two have already done that, haven't you? Because you're both much keener swimmers than I am. Yeah, I think I went at the end of March. March! At the end of March, um, which is pretty cold, but yeah, not a long one, just a dip. But yeah, it's a good great time. I I actually haven't had a dip in the sea yet. The only weekend I've been near the sea was a really wet, chilly one in May. So um maybe I'll make that my uh intention as well, Lisa. Sounds like sounds good. Yeah, I know that I I think I'm definitely a fair weather swimmer. I know it doesn't matter once you're in the water, but it's less enticing when the weather's not nice, isn't it? Yeah. I'm never going to be confident about swimming. I think the only time I stop feeling nervous is when I get distracted by sea creatures. You know, I might have mentioned it before. I once had a go at diving and I only calmed down when I saw an octopus. Because who doesn't love an octopus, right? That's amazing to see them as well. We were talking about what our favourite sea creatures were, weren't we? And I think we all unknowingly said octopus. Yeah. Yeah. They're just they're so incredibly clever, aren't they? They've got this remarkable level of problem-solving intelligence. And it also feels really rare to see one. So I like you always remember the times when you've seen one. So like I remember standing on a pier in Morbeya and looking down and just seeing this enormous one swim out into open water and everyone's pointing at it. Like absolutely mesmerizing. Wow. I read the book by Shelby Van Pelt, which is commonly known as the Octopus, but is actually called Remarkably Bright Creatures. And in fact, there's a new film out on Netflix, Sally Field. It's very good. I saw that. I haven't watched it. Yeah, it's great. She works in an aquarium, but the it's the octopus that steals the entire show from these even good actresses. It is just amazing because you get to see it really up close in the film. And you know, because in the book, obviously the octopus, you get to know its views because it it doesn't talk, but it kind of thinks, and so you get to know what it's thinking about, which is and you know, you do have to suspend disbelief a little bit, but um, but I ended up finding myself Googling, can you train an octopus the way you do? And I think you can really, because they they can mimic, they can solve puzzles, they can open jars, they're really clever. They're handy, handy to have around. Yeah, really interesting. I mean, uh they've inspired a lot of films, haven't they? You must have seen My Octopus Teacher. That's great. Oh, I haven't seen that. No, yeah. Is that a documentary? That's a documentary, yeah. And the guy who studies this octopus becomes had incredibly kind of close to this octopus, and it's all kind of his about his relationship with it, and it's quite it's quite intense, isn't it? Have you seen it, Joe? Yeah, it's a bit like Grizzly Man but with octopuses, isn't it? I haven't seen Grizzly Man, yeah. Yeah, you get it's quite close and sort of attached to this um octopus, yeah. But you do realise how what incredible creatures they are, and it is quite a magical film programme, so uh yeah, they are definitely up there. Magical creatures, you know, because we we commission one in every single issue. And I remember when we started this series, and it was years ago now, and you know, we did like the fox and the badger and thought, oh, you know, maybe we'll do a year's worth. And there are so many, and you know, in it because in the current issue it's gonna be it's ants, which you know might not be cute and cuddly, but they're certainly magical. They really are. It's quite funny. The issue is called Amble, and if there's a creature that doesn't amble, it's ants. Yeah, they're very purposeful, aren't they? Yeah, but we it coming up in August, we've got this magical creatures of the sea special, which is is going to be great because we commissioned these illustrations and we're featuring the seahorse, the Portuguese man of war, octopus, blue shark, the nudie branch. They're you know, incredible creatures that you can see in UK waters as well. I always find jellyfish really beautiful. I mean, obviously, like as a swimmer, they're the last thing you want to be in the water with. Yeah. But if they're ones that don't sting, like I've like I swam with not deliberately, but I've swam with moon jellyfish before twice now. Have you? Was it scary? Yeah, it's a little intimidating, but I thought I was thought I was being bashed by loads of plastic bags, and then it was just in the gower off Three Cliffs Bay, and I just stood up and I was surrounded by I mean thousands, thousands. I think it's a smack of jellyfish, and it was, but I mean they weren't stinging, and and same in um Vancouver Island, but I was in a kayak and we got the photographer to get in the water with them. It was fine, but yeah, they're incredibly beautiful. They really are. I love, I mean, I'd seen jellyfish in the sea and obviously love watching them in in tanks and they're just mesmerizing, aren't they? But I love swimming in the sea and I love snorkeling and seeing the fish and seeing the sea creatures. I feel like I could do that in warm seas, I could do it all day. I think it's it's one of my favourite things. Oh wow. I think I'd definitely keep seahorses in a tank if I could. Yeah. I don't think you're allowed to. No, sorry, Lisa. I know. Disclaimer, I haven't got seahorses in a tank. But imagine being able to look at them anytime you wanted, because I could I could watch them all day. Yeah. But you know, but fish uh anyway, fish tanks are not easy because we've had this conversation before, Bex. You you you know, it's really hard to like, it's like managing a zoo, isn't it? You know, you've got to make sure the fish get on. I actually managed to keep a fit keep fish in a tank and uh successfully in our old house in London. Moved them in the the day we moved to to Bath, I had the fish tank on my knee in the car all the way because I was so worried about these fish. And then we had them here for a little while and they would settle into their new home and we added some new new ones and it was all fine. And then I messed up and put something in the tank to clean it that somehow managed to kill them all. Oh no, yeah, it was a it was a very sad, very sad time. Yeah. But did I tell you that I once met a poet who writes underwater, just talking about liking being in the sea? Yeah, she's called Anna Selby, and she writes these beautiful poems about experiences and things that she sees and how she feels underwater, and she takes like a waterproof pad and um and pen, and you know, and I guess she can hold her breath quite well, but she goes up and down and swims around, and yeah. You should interview her in the magazine, she sounds interesting. Yeah, yeah, we should actually. We should. What an amazing thing to do. She wrote one called Sea Cucumbers, which I really like. Very cool. But see, the sea does inspire artists, whatever type, don't they? We've got this woman, I can't remember her name actually, but that's because we haven't run the feature yet. But it's coming up in our July issue, and it's a gallery of her work, and she crochets shells. Oh, I've seen her work, it's beautiful. I mean, she does other things as well, like she does fungi amazingly as well. And apparently she lives like between the woods, uh, or she lives near the woods and the sea, so that's why she specialises in those things. But uh the shells are I'm not a I'm not usually a big fan of knitted uh kind of natural things. They always feel a bit incongruous, but these are stunning and the colours she uses as well. Anyway, we're doing a gallery of her work in July, so it'll be very good to see. But in the current June issue, we've got one of our know a thing or two about pieces, which is where we kind of try and bring all the pertinent and often Irreverent facts about a subject to the page. Joe, I think you've been reading this, haven't you? And it's all about salt. Yeah, I really enjoyed this one. So this reminds me of an old friend of mine called John Mitchinson, who was the head of research at um QI, and he did a talk for us once at um Wilderness Festival on Salt. He used to hold these salt parties where he'd get friends, you know, like friends would come around to do a wine tasting, but he'd have different salts from around the world. Um and they'd even like drink brine at the end of it. Hang on, whoa, whoa, whoa. They drink brine at the end of the night. Oh bet that gives you a hangover. Yeah, you'd wake up thirsty, wouldn't you? Yeah, I never went to one of these parties, but I quite like to. It reminded me when I was reading the speech because there's so many interesting um facts about salt. Because obviously it was used as a flavour enhancer, but it was a bit of a mystery as to why it did that. But apparently it suppresses the pal less palatable flavours like bitterness and then it allows the other flavours to sing like sweetness. So that's why salted caramel tastes so good. Oh, okay. Yeah, it's so interesting, isn't it? It's also obviously a preservative, which is what where the brine comes into it, because it draws water out from food, and of course, any microbes, bacteria that are living on it, killing those so that you can keep it for longer. And of course, it's the same process that the ancient Egyptians used in mummification. Also, it's a wound cleanser. Ever, you know, ever gargled salt water or you know? Yeah, yeah. Oh, okay. So, but I made a brine once. Speaking of brines, you can use it to tenderise meat and help um enhance the flavour and the texture of it. So I think I was getting a bit kind of keen and ahead of myself and my culinary culinary skills. I got inspired because it's only a mixture of water, salt, and sugar, and then you can add little herbs and things like that in. Presumably, like all recipe specs, you have to get those in the right quantities. Definitely, yeah. And you can have wet brines and dry brines. Yeah, so you like you have a salt crust or something, but this is with a wet brine, so it's like a water liquid that it sits in. And I was really proud of this and and probably bought you know quite a nice piece of meat, and then obviously served it to people and um and it was just really horribly salty. Oh, yeah, I think I'd left it left it too long, or I don't know. I've not revisited brines since then. Oh no. No. Because salt salt can get a bit of a bad press these days, can't it? I mean, yeah, that whole too much of it isn't good for us. But but it's also important, isn't it? Well, it's in a lot of um processed foods, isn't it? So you know that that's the problem is some more added salt that I think you know we need to be we need to be careful with. But we need it. We need it, it's vital for uh this this sodium element of salt is uh an electrolyte, and um we need it to stay alive so for our nerve and muscle function. Um, you know, it that's why, you know, obviously you know if you get dehydrated, you're in all rehydration salts. Yeah. Did you know you you can actually get it from this country as well? Because you've you sort of think about Himalayan rock salt, which has this traces of iron oxide, which is why it's um pink. Um but yeah, you can get it from uh this country, so you can spot it in the place names. So any English town with a name ending which, like Nantwich, Drew Twitch, Northwich. Really? For instance. I don't know if that is that Norwich or Northwich, I don't know. But um, it's a clue that the Anglo Anglo-Saxon in Anglo-Saxon times there's a brine pit or a salt pan used to be there. Oh interesting. Because obviously you get it from two sources, don't you? It's either the sea or it's from rock. Yeah. So the rock in the sea is the sort of runoff of minerals where rainwaters hit the rocks on the land, but then the salt in the rock comes from where lakes and seas have dried up. But yeah, uh, I guess sea salt's the more fashionable one now, isn't it? Yeah. But ro people use rock salt as well, don't they? What I like are the sayings. You know, if you think when you start thinking about taking it with a pinch of salt, salt of the earth, but the one the one I like best is worth his salt or worth her salt. But it's not what you think because the the the other fact I really liked in the piece was about the fact that Roman soldiers were paid, it's where the word salary comes from. Okay, but they weren't actually paid in salt, but they were it's like a kind of living wage. The money they earned was to buy salt. Oh, I see. So it's it's called salary, but actually, worthy salt was not to do with the salary, but in fact, I don't really know what it's from. I've already forgotten the fact. I'll put it in the show notes, but I liked the backstory. But you know, worthy salt. Reading that piece reminded me that I used to throw salt over my left shoulder. We used to do that. I used to do that. Is that to ward off like spirits or something? I can't remember what you do it for. Did we do it for good luck or did we do it as like a touchwood kind of thing? No, it's to ward off evil, I think. Yeah. I can't remember the context of when I would have done it. Even isn't it if you spilled some salt, you then had to throw some over your left shoulder to get rid of the devil or something. Yeah. Oh, yes, that was it. Because you were inviting the devil or something like that. Yeah. That's it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Clearly, we've researched that fact really well on this one. I'd have been throwing salt over my shoulder in all the wrong occasions. I know, but that you know, we are we are dabbling, that's what we're doing. But the way I know we all want to dabble in this because we did a yet another great piece in our June issue on citizen science, and there were so many ideas in this. And you know, citizen science being that kind of, you know, you might count butterflies, watch bees, survey seaweed, but the idea is that your observations contribute to wider knowledge because lots of people are doing it. And are we, I mean, we've all picked something, I think, and we yeah, yeah, I can't remember Bex. What were you gonna do from it? Well, I like the sound of the seaweed surveys because I'm really interested in seaweed. I like it when I've tried it in cooking, and um, there's so many different types. The Natural History Museum is apparently asking for people to do these seaweed surveys where they can look for and note 14 common species and uh on a stretch of beach, and then obviously they can record that and note about the any impact of the changing environment and what that's having on sea life. So I thought that would be really interesting, and it would get me to the beach as well. Nice, yeah, exactly. And it won't take long, will it? You know, you don't do it for like days and days, you just do it in one session, and then people can kind of get the results from that. But I like the fact that I'd be really learning something. Um I'd like to do it with one of my kids, maybe, and then also, you know, obviously contributing, which is the whole point of it, isn't it? Definitely. How about you, Joe? I'd like to do the great egg case hunt, which is part of the shark trust. Um, so that asks you to identify and record mermaid record mermaids' purses, which is an empty egg cases of sharks and rays. So these are all those things that I find anyway, that I find really fascinating. They're really beautiful. Yeah. Nice. But yeah, it'd be a nice, almost like a treasure hunt, right? To to go and find them on a beach. What's great is you only do like 15 minutes, 20 minutes, and yet the results Exactly. So you two know unsurprisingly are going to the beach then. Yeah. Well, the sun's shining as well. There was one on there that was quite interesting, which is you can count the bugs that get splattered on your number plate. Oh, yeah. I thought you could do this, Lisa, when you travels up north. Yeah, exactly. It sounds a bit weird, but I think you know, it's a marker of insect abundance. So maybe we'll have a go at that. But actually, more pleasantly, the Woodland Trust does an ancient trees inventory. Oh, I've seen this. If you find one that's not on the list, you can add one to it. It's practically like naming a tree after yourself, isn't it? You know, it's kind of like I found that tree. Love that idea. So um, that'd be good. And they actually they also do you know seasons changing, which I do a bit of this anyway. I I record in my diary of when the first bluebells appear and you know when the first snowfall is and that sort of stuff. So I like that. But the other thing is when I'm up north in the dales, we kind of get red squirrels in the valleys there and in the garden as well. And so there are lots of local red squirrel groups because to report sightings and monitor numbers because they're recolonising parts of northern England, and that feels really good to be part of that because that's like a species that's coming back, and that would be nice, yeah. So I look forward to doing that. That's really lucky that you get to do that. I mean, obviously at this time of year we're kind of thinking about things that you want to do outdoors, but there's lots of things that you can do at home as well. And so if you can't go outdoors, you you know, you can do things like there's this thing called Zooniverse, and you can look at images that have been taken through a from a telescope, and you can fight look out for comets and clouds on Mars, these things called brown dwarfs, which are balls of cosmic gas that never become stars. Wow. You can kind of um keep an eye on all the footage from like wildlife cameras, you know, because someone's got to look back through all this and and see, you know, they're out there and you've got to, you know, note when things come into sight. I like the thought of that because you can obviously transport yourself somewhere else and and help out that way. Definitely. Well, I think I think we've made it fairly clear that there's much to dabble in and discover this summer, isn't there? You know, in the meantime, we've got to waste a bit of time in our motto for this season time you enjoy wasting is not waste of time. So I think we've all got one of these going on. Jo, do you want to do you want to talk what you see what yours is? I think it's just going to go collect those um shark egg cases because I think it'll be really fun. We're gonna do a lot of camping this year, so I think that'll be a nice thing to do at different places. Nice. How about you, Bix? Um, I'm kind of inspired to like potter and poodle just around my area and all the kind of summer events that happen from art sales and garden trails to summer fairs and that we have you know parties in the city. So I think you know, don't have to go too far. And that makes me quite nostalgic as well, doing all those kind of traditional summer things. I think I was on a similar vein, Bex, because I I I really want to spend this summer delving into local history a bit, but not just online, but kind of walking and noticing, but then looking it up and finding out more about it. Not for any practical purpose, just because it's interesting. Perhaps you could do a treasure hunt to help you give you a bit of an idea of where to go. Yeah. Maybe it's certainly possible, but you know, thank you both for our chat today. I always learn something new when we talk, and that's what I hope our listeners do too. And thanks also to Titanic Belfast for supporting us all season. I definitely want to take a first visit to the city and explore the history of Titanic. And you can plan your visit at Titanicbelfast.com. Now we're going to be taking a podcast break over the summer, but remember you can still listen to our earlier summer podcast episodes via your app. So I would start off with season six, which was our magical midsummer season, and then when school's out, you can move on to season three, which was our everyday holiday season for High Summer. And before you know it, we'll be back in September with our dusk autumn season, which runs from the autumn equinox all through to all Hallows Eve. An immediate start subscription means you can get June issues straight away, and our July amble issue and August magical issues will see you through summer too. So it's bye from all of us. Bye. See you next time. Bye for now. And bye from me. Thanks very much for listening.