045 Behind the Lens with Chris Overton: Sharing Lessons from an Oscar-Winning Director

Join us for an illuminating conversation with acclaimed director Chris Overton, the genius mind behind the Oscar-winning film, The Silent Child, and the founder of Slick Films. Discover the captivating journey of how an actor's infatuation with performance morphed into a passionate love affair with the art of filmmaking. Chris candidly unfolds the narrative of Slick Films, from the stumbles of the early days to the exhilarating moment of Oscar recognition. His gratitude for his team's shared passion—a significant propellant behind the film's success—is palpable.

Going beyond the glitz and glamour, we plunge into the real-world challenges and opportunities within the industry. Hear our candid takes on the American versus UK markets, a discussion sparked by our personal experiences. Chris' singular perspective, shaped by his own aspirations to direct in the States, offers invaluable insights for budding filmmakers. 

In the closing act of our chat, we tackle community and networking in the film industry, the ins and outs of film festivals, and the importance of genuine connections. Hear us discuss the making of "In Too Deep" and the trepidations that accompany directing a debut film, replete with the struggles of navigating the industry in the UK. Chris gracefully connects these discussions to the necessity of preparation and effective time management within the industry. Don't miss this treasure trove of lessons and insights from a master of the craft. Join us, and immerse yourself in the magic that is filmmaking.

For our listeners, CFA’s teamed up with We Make Movies to get you a discount on production management services, including access to comprehensive production insurance and workers' comp for your next shoot. 

Visit wemakemovies.org/insurance and use code CFA23 on your intake form for 10% off your quote.

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Cinematography for Actors is a community aimed at bridging the gap between talent & crew through our weekly podcast & community events. Our weekly show supports the filmmaking community through transparent, honest & technically focused interviews with the goal of elevating the art of effective storytelling.

Transcript

The Journey of Slick Films

Speaker 1 0:00

After that, the journey of slick films. Did it, did you take on more films then? What was kind of like for your company and as a director? What did that mean for, like the aftermath of winning an Oscar? Yeah did you need more?

Speaker 3 0:12

employees.

Speaker 4 0:14

Look, it was kind of like getting handed the keys to a Ferrari after just passing your driving test.

Speaker 1 0:21

This is the Cinematography for Actors podcast.

Speaker 3 0:24

More than a podcast. Cinematography for Actors is a vibrant community devoted to bridging the gap between talent and crew. Each week, our show offers transparent, insightful conversations with industry leaders. We unveil the magic behind the scenes, from candid discussions about unique filmmaking processes to in-depth technical exploration. Join us in unraveling the intricacies of filmmaking, one episode at a time. It's more than just cameras and lenses we aim to inspire, educate and empower as we peel back the curtain on the art of effective storytelling. Now on to the episode.

Speaker 1 1:01

Hi everyone and welcome to another episode of the Cinematography for Actors podcast. We are bridging the gap between talent and crew. Sitting with me here today is our lovely, fun filled room of co-hosts. Here today we have Brianna Wing, actor and partner at CFA. We have Jack Gibson, our outreach director and wonderful co-host, who helps me with all the technical, and we have Haley Royal, one of our co-founders, as co-host as well. And with us today in the late hours of the London nights is Chris Overton, famed director and founder correct of Slick Films production company.

Speaker 4 1:38

Yes, welcome.

Speaker 1 1:40

Welcome, welcome Welcome.

Speaker 4 1:41

Look at that.

Speaker 1 1:41

I am so happy we can finally connect because I know with Holly Shorts you had three films there produced under Slick Films. Congratulations for that and I'm sorry we couldn't connect during. But I'm so happy we get a full episode to connect now. Yeah. I'm just a 15 minute episode, a full thing. I mean three films at 15 minutes each. You know, here we go, Full episode.

Speaker 4 2:01

Right. Well, I'm very pleased to be here. I love what you guys are doing. I think it's just yeah, as I said earlier, the brand and the website, it's just. It's really on point. So I'm very pleased to be here.

Speaker 1 2:13

Oh, thank you so much. Now, chris, I would love to talk about Slick Films. And let's kind of get started with what Slick Films is who's in the team, how you built it out as a director and producer and how you got started.

Speaker 4 2:29

Yeah, I kind of fell into it, I kind of think by accident it was. You know, I was an actor from a young age and then I picked up a camera when I was like 13 years old, fell in love with that. It was kind of editing really that I fell in love with. But then I just started filmmaking and I didn't really know what part of filmmaking that I enjoyed I liked. You know, I did a bit of everything and but I made films really at a young age to so I could be in them as an actor, you know that was.

Speaker 4 2:59

That was really what that was about. And then I think I was 19. Yeah, I was about 19 when I registered the domain for Slick and, yeah, we started to create showreels for actors. That's how. That's how we began really.

Speaker 4 3:20

So, years and years of making mistakes on showreels sets and it was just two people and two actors. You know, two crew, two actors. So everyone says, oh, silent Job was your your first film? And yes, it was. But I'd done a lot of. You know, I've been able to have this environment that I created to make loads and loads of mistakes where I learned sound editing, first aid in cinematography, producing you know, a range of a whole spectrum of the filmmaking industry, really. But yeah, and then I brought on, you know, people to kind of help as the company was growing and, you know, one thing led to another. And then I met Rachel Shenton whilst I was, you know, being an actor. And then, five years later, we kind of met again out in Los Angeles when I was trying to be an actor doing pilot season and that went horribly wrong.

Speaker 3 4:24

But the best thing about that trip.

Speaker 4 4:27

Yeah, it was awful. I've got some stories for you. And then, yeah, rachel and me kind of connected over there and yeah, she had this idea for a script and she told me about it and I was just like, oh my God, you've got to write it. So she did, and it was the Silent Child and that, yeah, the rest was kind of history really, and since then we've just been making more short films, trying to learn our craft, earn our stripes and help other filmmakers make their films too at the same time.

Speaker 1 5:04

So, yeah, let's clarify for those that don't know the Silent Child won an Oscar, correct Won.

Speaker 4 5:10

It did, yeah, a few years ago now. Yes, wow.

Speaker 1 5:14

And I can imagine Congratulations. Congrats. Now what? And for the Silent Child? What was that process like? We talked to a lot of people at Holly Shorts and we continue to talk to directors and producers about the FYC track and what happens. What was the process in which that film was, you know, at Oscar qualifying festivals? Where did it win? How did you get it kind of on the track to go to the Oscars and eventually win?

Speaker 4 5:41

Yeah, I mean it's a long. You know I could give the long answer, but I'll try and make it as condensed as I can because it was a long journey but it kind of wasn't. But we really didn't know what we're doing. If I'm being completely honest, it was, like you know, we made this film with so much heart and we had this incredible team and I'll be forever indebted to everybody who worked on that and we just we made this and we didn't really know, kind of, what we'd done. Really, it was a lot of people's first film but it, like I said, it was made with a lot of heart and it had this very important message. And we got it into Rhode Island Film Festival. That was like the key thing. But we were literally just finishing the film off, I think, like the day we had to post it to Rhode Island. We were made like a final change. Anyway, we went to that festival, we won, we won the grand jury prize and Maisie Sly, the young actor in the film, she won Best Actress as well.

Speaker 4 6:39

So, it was really it was really great and I don't know. We didn't really think anything more of it after that. To be honest, it was like people kept coming up to us and saying well, you know, it's August now, the Oscars applications close very soon. You better get your application in. And we were like I love that.

Speaker 1 6:59

I'm not hilarious.

Speaker 4 7:01

We just didn't realize what they meant.

Speaker 4 7:03

If we're honest, we knew that we could submit, but we just didn't know how. Really. We thought I don't know people thought it was obvious with what to do, but we didn't know that. So we got an email from the festival director at Rhode Island saying "'Guys, you don't have long, please submit". And we were like, okay, we were just a bit clueless, so we did, we got it together and we submitted and then again carried on with our festival journey. And it's tough, it's out there, the festival journey.

Speaker 4 7:30

There was still a lot of rejections for the silent child People go, really. But it wouldn't ask them like, yeah, you wanna see the rejection list, anyway. So I can't remember the date, but it was December of that year, so only a few months later. And then we got an email and then the producer, rebecca Harris, who's head of film at Slick Films, she messaged us and said "'Guys, the Academy". And we didn't know what she meant. And then found out that we were down to the final 10 for the Oscars. And when I say we honestly never expected that, we really never expected that. And then they announced the nominations live and that was like a month later and our inbox went crazy after that point. It was unbelievable Overnight distributors, press sales agents, people wanting to interview us. It was crazy. And then, yeah, you watched the nominations live and they tell you to record it. And you don't wanna record it because I thought, god, we couldn't think of anything worse if we didn't get nominated.

Speaker 1 8:41

I don't think I really wanna have that video. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4 8:45

And the camera was like right on this bookshelf, pointing us over there just out the way. And anyway, we were nominated and I think the most special thing about that was we just thought, wow, we can take this little girl to the Oscars. What an amazing thing. And then, yeah, we went there and there was a lot of press around it. There's this whole event leading up towards it. And then we won.

Speaker 4 9:13

And then I was locking eyes with Meryl Streep on stage and I just always remember that, as Rachel was doing her speech and leading up to it, it was drummed into us like you have 45 seconds, that's it and we will kick you off the stage. And you're like, okay, and then, anyway, rachel did her speech, and then I was just about to start mine and then there's this big screen in the middle of the auditorium and it says time's up, get off the stage. And I have to speak and do like I had the boring job of doing all the thank yous, so I just had to rattle through it and then the music started to come up.

Speaker 4 9:55

And then the next step would have been for the mics and the lights to be turned off, but I literally got it in and oh yeah, there isn't a time that clicks down, so you can manage. I think there is on the screen, but you know you'll just lost. You'll just lost it. You're lost on the auditorium stage.

Speaker 1 10:12

Yeah, I mean, can you follow directions? Wasn't it a countdown?

Speaker 3 10:18

And he's like I had to see the time you're winning, Like I don't know, but that's wonderful.

Speaker 2 10:23

Nobody ever really knows what it's like in that moment, totally.

Speaker 3 10:27

Totally. It's a screen that says get off the stage, Exactly.

Speaker 2 10:33

That's wild. You're just in shock.

Speaker 4 10:35

Yeah, a little bit, and I don't know what you do. You know I wasn't just gonna walk off.

Speaker 3 10:41

Yeah, you have to thank everybody, yeah exactly. You get through the music and you know what. I bet those people are like that. It was beautiful, he pushed, he really pushed. His luck on that one. For me, yeah, exactly that's so wonderful.

Speaker 1 10:54

Now, after that, the journey of slick films, did you take on more films then? What was kind of like for your company and as a director? What did that mean for, like the aftermath of winning an Oscar?

Speaker 3 11:06

Yeah, Did you need more employees?

Opportunities, Short Films, and Future Plans

Speaker 4 11:10

Look, it was kind of like getting handed the keys to a Ferrari after just passing your driving test. Oh, you know, it really was like we were like rabbits in headlights. You know, we just it was very overwhelming, very exciting. Lots of doors opened, you know, some really nice opportunities that we took, but we really we just wanted, we just felt like we had to learn the craft a little bit more. It was our first film and I'm so glad we did that because there was opportunities to do a feature, but it wouldn't have been the right feature.

Speaker 4 11:41

You know, I got signed with an agent in America very quickly and they were sending me scripts and I was reading the first page going like I can't connect to this, I can't tell this story, you know. So we were a little bit lost. We just didn't know which direction to go down, really. And then, I think, people started to come to us and say, oh, can you help me with my short film?

Speaker 4 12:05

And so, whilst we were working on our own, Rachel was writing and I was looking at how to build the company and, yeah, it kind of happened that we just started to take on more shorts and now we've got to slate all in different stages, like 35 short films. So you know, like eight are like out there, finished, some are being distributed, like lots are on the festival circuit at the moment, some are in post-production, a couple are about to just have their world premiere, so, and then you know, we've got a large slate in development. So shorts are a big part of what we do, but we really want to step up now and we are, yeah, working very hard towards our debut feature which, all being well, we might be on set this time next year, maybe.

Speaker 1 12:56

Oh hell yeah, Congratulations, congratulations, yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 3 13:00

Slick Films also has some other cool facets to it, right? I mean, you're not just a production company not that that's not something but like you also have a program to help younger filmmakers kind of go out and feel confident, correct, that's right.

Speaker 4 13:19

Yeah, I think that comes from, like me being, you know, finding it very hard to break into the industry and kind of having to set up in a way in my own film school. Like you know, before Slick Films was Slick Showreels, you know that kind of is now still going and thriving, but that is a brilliant ladder into the industry and that's how I started. You know, as I mentioned earlier, I did, you know, hundreds of showreels where I got this playground to learn and make loads of mistakes, but it's still. There's still a client, you know there's still. You still have to deliver good quality, but it's just not like a set full of 100 people, you know. So, yeah, we really champion having trainees come on and then being able to step up into short films and, hopefully one day, feature films. So we really want to, you know, be able to set a clear pathway from the bottom to the top of the industry.

Speaker 3 14:16

So that's why, sorry, is that like a? Training program that these young filmmakers pay to be a part of? Is it like a nonprofit type of situation? How are they getting involved and what kind of expectations should they have?

Speaker 4 14:35

Yeah, so it's quite casual, if I'm honest, like we don't monetize it or anything like that. We just find people, just find us and get in touch with us and there's like an application form so we always try to put one train in the honor. Our show real shoot. So we've got this large database. So, you know, every so often we'll try someone else and if they're good they tend to stick around and then, before you know it, there's people that we want to continue to work with and they've already broken into the industry.

Speaker 4 15:12

And we're like we can't get hold of them. We're like I'm like, hey, do you want to come and do a day on my short film? And like, oh, sorry man, I'm really busy on an Avengers movie. I'm like, okay, good.

Speaker 4 15:24

It's really lovely how that happens and that's a real success. But and it happens quite quickly, you know, depending on the department and you know when it's a short film we had on our my latest short film In Too Deep, we had about six trainees and you know they were just all brilliant. One of them's like full-time in the BBC now Another one we just saw so much talent in and just was doing loads of BTS content for us and really starting to think about his own show. So it just yeah, there could be more structure to it, but we feel like it's quite nice that it's quite casual as well and we're just, I'm just very open. I think we're very open at Slick.

Speaker 4 16:07

If someone comes to me with passion, that's like the number one. Anyone can learn the skills. If someone comes to me with passion and like comes to me at a film festival and said, look, I want to do this, and if I can feel their genuine, I'm like right, come on, set them. I met someone at a film festival last week. I you know I was talking to him before I even knew he won the student award and he won. I had to present him this award.

Speaker 4 16:32

And then someone said oh God, I really need a trainee on my shoot. And I was just emailed him. I was he emailed and I just went do you want to come on set tomorrow? And he was like yeah, all right. I was like brilliant, and then he's going to do come on set more with us, and that's kind of how it is. It's quite loose, but like we're very spontaneous where that is concerned.

Speaker 1 16:50

Amazing. Now you've worked in both Los Angeles and the UK well in the American market and the UK market. How would you say they differ? What are, like, the biggest things that hit you? I know in the LA you've mostly worked as an actor. Previously you were talking about pilot season and stuff. Have you also directed in the States, or is it mostly in the UK?

Speaker 4 17:10

No, I haven't directed in the States, but I would love to. And yeah, me and Rachel have just got green cards actually, so because they're oh my gosh, that's huge.

Speaker 3 17:20

I know we're very excited yeah.

Speaker 4 17:23

So you know that's something we'd really like to do. I'd love to do a few episodics of.

Speaker 4 17:28

I think you just make amazing TV and amazing content over there and America has just always been very I don't know. It's just been very kind to me and Rachel. So anyway, that's been something we've been working on for a while and you know how do they differ. I think, yeah, I haven't worked as a director over there, but I have been over there trying to be an actor. So I'm trying to think I don't think I have worked over there. Actually, I've tried to work over there but didn't work out.

Speaker 1 18:02

What are you? What do you think community and network is like in the UK compared to what you've heard of LA? I know one of my best friends, anna Goodbrands, who's an incredible DP in London. She says that sometimes people can be a little more like gatekeep-y. They can. It can be a little more closed off sometimes, but it seems like you are changing that by having the mentorship program and training. But do you think it is like that? Do you find it's hard to break into it, but once you get like that person or that moment that it becomes easy? What are the challenges or pros of working in the UK?

Speaker 4 18:38

Yeah, that's a really good question about you know. Is it a bit more locked over here? Is that what you mean?

Speaker 1 18:44

Yeah.

Speaker 4 18:46

Yeah, I think that might be fair to say that. Yeah, I think it's maybe because it's smaller, like it's tougher to break in. There's fewer opportunities perhaps, and you know, like you know, we have the biggest. There's a few public funders that film for or channel for, bbc and the BFI, and like everybody just is trying to get something from them and it must be such a tough job. They can't help everyone. So I think it's more that if they could help everyone, they would, whereas I don't know, I think I've heard America is very different. They don't have the public funds.

Speaker 1 19:22

As far as I'm aware no, as a Canadian working in America, I can say, because Canada has so many grants, so much funding, so many film councils and opportunities, and then when you come to the States, it's like almost expected of like make your way. So it's like there's a huge network and I think people are very open to experience and like on a person to person level it's very open. But from like a funding level or applying for grants, unless it's tax credit, it's very, very restricted. So there isn't like that many opportunities, which is different. You know, when I go back to Canada I'm like let's apply for these six grants, you know. So, yeah, it's very different.

Speaker 4 19:57

Yeah yeah. But is it like over here? It's almost like a little bit hopeless. You know you apply for a grant and it's just like, oh, I've got to do just in case there's no hope. Really it doesn't feel like there's much hope you know we've got 35 short and I think one of them got some funding, you know. So the ratio is very, very low.

Speaker 1 20:19

Just because everyone's applying.

Speaker 4 20:21

I think so.

Speaker 2 20:22

Yeah.

Speaker 4 20:23

I don't know.

Speaker 2 20:24

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Speaker 4 21:01

And in terms of networking, I mean I don't know, it depends on what festival you go to. I mean, there's a film festival called Bolton Film Festival which I just absolutely adore. Oh cool, it's just, it's incredible for networking. Like, if I'm honest, it's a bit embarrassing to admit, but I didn't really get networking until about a year ago until I went to Bolton last year. I went again this year and I just always used to go oh, I'm not very good at networking, I don't network, I can't do that, I just you know, I'm not very good.

Speaker 4 21:34

And then I just I've always said this, like since I've learned it last year that I think networking should be crossed out. It should just be called socializing, because that's what it is. I think I was like okay, it was a bit of a.

Speaker 2 21:47

Definitely for me.

Speaker 4 21:48

I was like yeah, I just need to chat to other filmmakers about what I love, which is film.

Speaker 1 21:54

Correct yeah.

Speaker 4 21:55

And I did that. I didn't think, oh, I need to get something out of this. No, oh God, this is, and so many things have come from that.

Speaker 1 22:02

Yeah.

Speaker 4 22:03

So yeah.

Speaker 1 22:04

This is just making friends Last time.

Speaker 4 22:06

I was in America, yeah.

Speaker 3 22:10

Yeah, it's something that Indy is super passionate about and that just converted us all here at CFA. That, like networking is huge and it's the main thing and it's so important and it doesn't have to be like this scary word of like oh it's business, so it's networking. We're just trying to find out what we can get from everybody else. It's these are your friends. It's your film family, of course, if you don't wanna work with your friends, it just all is rolled up together, yeah.

Speaker 1 22:35

Yeah, so that's wonderful.

Speaker 1 22:37

I love that you said, the Bolton Film Festival. I am a huge. I'm gonna look it up because I'm a huge fan of Camry Mosh. I go every year. It's been like my ninth year. This will be my ninth year going to Poland for Camry Mosh Film Festival and that's how I know my entire network, like literally everyone. It stemmed from that. Even when I moved to the States I already had people I knew because I had gone to Poland for so many years and known them. So I love a good Film Festival wreck. So I'm so happy you said that because I'm sure our audience is gonna love to check that out. Can you talk a little bit about Bolton and what it is and how you found it and what it's known for and the networking opportunities and things like that? Yeah, sure.

Speaker 4 23:14

So we were there for its first year when we did the Silent Child and I just couldn't. I've been to lots of other festivals before this one around that time and I just remember thinking, god, they've done well here. This feels like a festival that's been running for forever. So professional. It's just two of them, adrian and Zoe, and they're like proper salt of the earth, working class from a photography background, and they just knew what they were doing and they're just very real and yeah, I don't know, just see it grow year on year and then they very quickly got like BAFTA accreditation or.

Speaker 4 24:03

But you know they were BAFTA accredited or whatever you qualify yeah, and then they would be yeah, but you know it's got those little film freeway after Biffa goes on, yes and that happened very quick for them and I don't know like just it's. They screen amazing films, it's programmed so well and it's just a really relaxed environment and you know, there's great panel discussions on and there's an online part to it as well and I don't know everything that they're doing is just like top notch. I think it's actually in the top 10 festivals in the world right now fantastic, cool film freeway, yeah, apparently amazing.

Speaker 1 24:42

I'm going to have to create like a little film guide eventually for everyone's recommended festivals, so it's like peer reviewed festivals from cfa and and yours will be on there for the Bolton rec, because I just think it's so wonderful to to allow people to understand what the opportunities are within our industry and that you don't have to be located in New York or LA or London. You know. It can be a worldwide thing of like what is your local resource, you know, and where can I meet people?

Speaker 3 25:06

well and also to know, like what each film festival has a different feel. You know, like in LA we use the term vibe a lot and you you can feel that, like you said, you're like, oh, this ones they've done well here and there are other ones that may not like vibe with certain people, certain film, certain types.

Speaker 3 25:26

So to have a resource like that, that says, like, this film festival feels like this and it'll be good for this type of thing totally type of networking can be so helpful, because film freeway is so inundated, there's just like so much, and a lot of people, especially like first time makers, have no idea which your entire budget is going to film freeway.

Speaker 1 25:47

If you don't know idea, yeah, I want to think.

Speaker 5 25:50

I mean, I think it's also really important that you mention that it's kind of has this laid back and comfortable vibe to it, and I think that I mean that directs or that relates so directly to what we're calling networking. But I feel like, truly, the distinction is like capital and networking and then lowercase and networking and capital and networking is the like thing that I truly hate.

Speaker 3 26:10

I think the big scary very few people.

Speaker 5 26:12

I've ever loved it, but it's you know the difference of. We were for Holly shorts very recently, were at, you know, a kind of a celebratory function and there was this kind of cold call vibe where someone came up to me and just like won't introduce themselves purely as business, like a human business card, and I was just like okay, I don't want to talk to this person anymore like I.

Speaker 5 26:40

You know you've already cut me off from this, this conversation, by introducing yourself in that way and you know I mean that kind of cold call, I stuff has its own place but that I've gotten so many more jobs, friends, communities from introducing myself as a person and talking, and then somewhere down the line in the conversation, you know it's like, oh well, so what do you do? You know, and then, and then you get into that and that's totally the ethos that we have at cfa and I think that's really important, because there are a lot of festivals that are capital and networking and I know a lot of directors who dread going to certain film festivals because that's what the vibe is, that afterwards you go to a party. It's not, you know it's, it's it's not familiar.

Speaker 1 27:22

Yeah, it's not like it's being a salt of a kind of age right exactly, and so I think it's a really cool thing to know about.

Speaker 5 27:29

The Bolton film festival is like, yeah, uh, just following that ethos in all corners of the business business, because it's there, and it's really cool to shine a light on the places where it is yeah, can we talk about some of your?

Speaker 1 27:45

couldn't agree more with the way, yeah, yeah, let's get into it. The three films at holy shorts this year. Can we talk about them? Why, uh, we missed out on them, uh, during holy shorts. So let's, let's talk about three. Yeah, we were too busy.

Speaker 3 28:00

Um, we were too busy interviewing 70, 70 interviews, so we tried to catch a lot of them on.

Speaker 4 28:07

I mean, that's insane yeah, afterwards.

Opening Nights and Filmmaking Challenges

Speaker 3 28:11

So we caught a few, but yeah, we didn't. We only got to screen one in the theater. Yeah, because it was, uh, these guys's well.

Speaker 4 28:20

I know, I know how, I know how busy you were, because I scrolled through the spot, I stayed. I was like holy shorts, holy shorts, holy shorts. Oh my god, I was like where's the first episode? And I'm doing it again yeah yeah yeah, but in too deep was opening night. Come on, guys.

Speaker 1 28:42

I know, I know, good night. No, we were busy, we okay. Well, I'll let you off. It was like it was like it was like set it was like proper set days.

Speaker 5 28:52

I came away as a class.

Speaker 1 28:53

Yeah, yeah it was wild. Yeah, we're sorry to miss it. We uh, yeah, but please tell us about opening nights, tell us about in too deep. Tell us about the other two as well. Like we want to hear about them and we want to also, um, get them out there to our audience yeah, well, I wish I would have been there and I was gutted to not have been there.

Speaker 4 29:14

Um, I was very close to coming out and I was supposed to do a panel, but anyway, it didn't work out. Um, but yeah, so I don't know what it was like for opening nights, but when you know, when you find out you're an opening night, it's just like it's a big deal. So, um, yeah, I was very proud of that and I think I think that it's in too deep.

Speaker 4 29:31

In particular, I'm very proud of the film um, but it's also been timed very well and I wouldn't mean to plan for this AI strike you know the right to strike to happen, but in too deep is the story of, uh, a far other that goes to extreme measures to bring back the memories of his dead daughter using AI technology. So it's a laugh a minute that one, as you can tell, yeah, funny. So, yeah, it's like a drama thriller, but the AI side of it, I think, resonated and has resonated with, like festivals in in Canada and and other festivals in America. It seems to be doing very well, um, and I think I don't know that that is probably helped by the AI theme behind it, um, so, so yeah, that that's in too deep. I directed that um, yeah, we're. What else can I say about it? What else do you want to know? Um about?

Speaker 5 30:25

yeah, yeah, I can say very seriously, uh, if you could talk a little bit about the actual pipeline of like from when you guys first got a hold of of that script. How did you get it? Was it a submission? And then kind of what's the, what's that pipeline look like for anyone who would be you know? Uh, even just didn't try and work with you, like through like home.

Speaker 2 30:45

Yeah, yeah okay.

Speaker 4 30:48

So, yeah, the writer was James Spillman and he just sent this email that really caught my attention. He was just, he just said, look, like this is what it's about. I don't I won't spoil it and say what type of AI technology is used, just in case, but, um, he explained that I mean, he was ahead of the curve. He really was, because he, he kind of almost predicted this. He was like, look, this is a very fast moving technology and it's it's going to get worse and worse. And, um, he was right. Um, and it just so happened that, you know, we released a film around the time of the strikes, um, but that that that caught our attention. That was like January 20. I think that was January 2020. I read the script, so it was a long time ago. Um, and then, yeah, we spent a long time trying to, you know, raise the money and working on the treatment, getting it all together, and then COVID happened. So it was a real victim of COVID we have some exciting news.

Speaker 1 31:51

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Speaker 4 32:04

Slash insurance and use code CFA 23 on your intake form for 10% off your quote that delayed the shoot really by a year and you know, first time working there's a lot of, you know, not a lot, but there's a bit of VFX in the film as well, um, and that made for a very long post production. So it took yeah, took a long time. But also everything that could have gone wrong within too deep went wrong. You know it really oh no, I can't believe we're out the other side now what happened?

Speaker 2 32:35

yeah well, covid happened.

Speaker 4 32:39

Yeah, but like some people, got away with filming during COVID and nicked it in and and got in, got out very quick and did very well. I mean, we also filmed another film before this one. It was um, and that, yeah, came after reading it anyway. But yeah, like you know, actor availability, um, we rescheduled it four times I think, because it was like the day before the big announcement. Like you know, are you, uh, are you, is your work priority? That kind of thing are you?

Speaker 4 33:11

you know, uh, are you, you've got it? And we were just very confused, and this is the day before we had the first day, and then we had to do the big shots at the end, um, which had like a big crane with just six people, and it should have been a crew of 25. So we, we just had to, like we were just, you know, really in a difficult position, speaking to the local council, and the police was just kind of saying like no, you can only have this many people and you can't go inside that you, there's so many restrictions once you've got that one, yeah like shooting, no disasters or some disasters.

Speaker 4 33:47

Well, we shot like one day and then we had to wait three months, then we shot another day and then finally we had to wait nine months for actor availability. But then when we did shoot you, just the same usual problems, you get Nothing major.

Speaker 3 34:03

That's great and still it happened.

Speaker 1 34:07

It worked out and still it got into one of the greatest short film festivals in the world Opening night.

Speaker 3 34:13

Wow yeah, what you can do with it.

Speaker 1 34:16

Yeah, what Chris can do. It's like everyone, it's like a film.

Speaker 4 34:21

It's. You know, film is painful. It can be really painful. I haven't had an experience that has gone that smooth yet, but I think that's just filmmaking, isn't it? Yeah, it is.

Speaker 1 34:31

It's short filmmaking as well. So it really is. It's like working on limited resources, having the passion, having the people involved that are so passionate and making something that truly holds up. And one of the things I wanted to ask about that, talking about the AI and how you see a lot of festivals picking it up for some of the genres and themes, in addition to the actual film itself, what is for you? Is there an importance of having a niche in a film? Or, like your directing style, are you always picking something that is very much like a part of the niche or a part of the current or let's tackle this, because I know it's becoming a big thing or what's kind of like your methodology or mindset around choosing the next films that you're directing?

Speaker 4 35:12

Yeah, honestly, I just know whether I should be directing something or not. I get a little twinge in my heart. That sounds so corny, but it's true. And the Silent Child is the biggest example, because I wasn't a director before that. And then when I read the script, I was like holy shit, I've got to tell this story. You know, and I think that's when I became a director, I was a filmmaker and I wasn't a director before that and then, yeah, I just kind of am very compelled and I'm exceptionally lucky to have, you know, rachel and Rebecca, to have this team that are just so on the same page. You know, whatever Rachel writes, I'm just like, oh my God, I'm so lucky really. So, yeah, we're very much like, we're very much on the same page. It just so happens that what she writes is like all the stories that if I was a as good a writer as she was, that that's the kind of things I'd be writing for sure. So, yeah, that's kind of it. Just, it's a feeling, it's a good feeling.

Speaker 4 36:18

And if Rachel did write something that I thought it's not really for me, then I would. I would say I don't think I could. I could only tell stories that I really, truly believe in, and they are usually things that have a message. You know, not everything has to have a message, and we're very conscious of that at Slick, like most of the things that we do, I'd say 90% of the work that we do does hold like a, you know, an important message or something that could, you know, help to impact society. But also we like to throw in like a love story or something that's just purely, purely entertainment. Or, you know, we had the showcase recently where we, you know, we've got about 200 people to come to see the Slick film showcase in London and there were seven films we screened and at the end I was like, oh my God, we need comedy. I was like, wow, okay, yeah. But seeing them all together was like, okay, yeah, we need some comedy.

Speaker 1 37:16

Yeah, it is rare. Honestly, Like as a DP who started by doing a lot of shorts, it is very rare to find directors who want to do comedy. It's like it's a lot of drama, it's a lot of like personal stories, it's a lot of like horror, it's a lot of like trying to have as much like movement and emotion and effect on screen as possible for a lot of first time directors. And so it's funny that you say comedy, because I always look at my show reel or like when I'm like re-editing it at the beginning of the year and I'm like I need to do comedy. Like it's just like something that I actually don't have a lot of experience in, for the reason that the directors I work with are mostly drama and it's a funny. It's a funny theme, which is what are like.

Speaker 1 38:01

I want to know from an actor perspective. You were talking about coming up as an actor and then, at 13, getting your hands on a camera and things like that, and and obviously you've come to LA for pilot season stuff as a director now and you need to feel connected to your script, as you said. How is your directing style affected, based off of your experience as an actor, do you think?

Speaker 4 38:22

Oh God, I mean, it's literally been the best training to be a director, because I, I, I mean I hear it, and I've seen it a little bit as well, that directors are quite scared of actors, not you know, but just scared to give them a no or just interact with them, and I'm not at all Like I think anyone that's been an actor then a director is just brilliant, you know those. To learn those skills and to have empathy for what actors go through is, yeah, that's just the best, the best thing for me. Anyway, I'm so grateful that I've had that experience and not just, you know, gone to a few classes. I was an actor from the age of eight to like, I don't know, I don't really call myself an actor anymore unless a director friends says, oh, can you come and do this one line. I'll be like, yeah, sure, you know, but I've been an actor for a very long time. I was an actor first.

Speaker 1 39:19

That's really really beautiful and interesting to me and I know from. I know Bri and I just started doing a documentary together as co-producers and she's directing MDPing. And Bri and Haley here are the actors. We have Jack, who's a writer. I'm a DP and I know for you in asking questions during the documentary. Being an actor was a huge part of that as well.

Speaker 2 39:40

Yeah, there were some aspects of directing that I like gosh. I don't necessarily know how to proceed or I don't have experience, but what I do feel connected to is this human being sitting in front of me and I felt so much empathy for them. So my wheels are turning, wondering what it was like for you in those early transition periods when you directed your first film, because we have a lot of people that maybe have pivoted careers or are multi hyphenate. What was going through your mind when you wanted to direct your first film but you hadn't yet? What were some of the obstacles tangible ones or mentally you had to overcome in order to do take that first step, because sometimes people are scared to make that pivot.

Filmmaking Challenges and Finding Your Style

Speaker 4 40:29

I mean it is scary. I remember the week before shooting I couldn't sleep Like I had genuine. That's the first time in my life that I've had like anxiety, like I just I woke up in the middle of the night, thought, oh my God, I'm gonna like a heart attack or something, and I read this book that was. It was called my I think it was called my first movies. Oh cool, there's loads of feature directors that write that you know, tell their story about their first, their first movie, and that completely calmed me down. I was like, oh my God, I'm not alone. All the things that I'm feeling is all these massive directors have felt this.

Speaker 4 41:08

So that honestly changed it a little bit for me, because I'm very much a person, like a lot of us, who just like to get on with it, doesn't ask for help. What is really good is if you can have a mentor. If I had, if I would have had a mentor, someone to just like it was just one step ahead of me, who'd made a short, who could have said and I had a few friends around me, but I mean like a proper mentor, who'd, like I spoke with like I don't know a few times a week. That would have really calmed me down. So just that lack of experience was the most challenging thing the fear of the unknown. However, I think ignorance is bliss as well. I honestly think that's part of the success of the film, because you don't know what can can go wrong. You don't. I think. Sometimes the more you know, the harder it is, because I can't really articulate why that is. But I think there is a beauty in not knowing everything as well. So that had its pros and its cons, Definitely.

Speaker 1 42:13

The. It's funny you say that because I remember, like at AFI we had a class that was all about this. This book that talks about like film, code and how you design shots and as a DP you have an eye and you have an idea of what you like to shoot and how you might shoot different stories. But this book broke down, like you know, depth of the frame, so like flat space versus deep space. You know your golden ratios. It broke down kind of lines and where they're directing the actors and it's a lot of information if you're like just to memorize that and go for it, because then as a DP, if you're starting out, you're going oh, for every shot, do I have to have a column on my shot list that says is this flat or deep space? Is this vertical lines or horizontal lines? Are these converging, like it's?

Speaker 1 42:58

it's those questions around how you're doing it and so when you have so much information, it can overwhelm you, but what I think is is key to this is like you can learn these things, but then you can pick the one or two things that resonate with you, that are most important, almost like what draws you to the scripts that you read, and use that as like your methodology or your dogmatic approach to filmmaking, which is cool. But it's not about taking all the information and holding it there. It's about like letting go of some of it and being like no, this makes sense to me, this amount, this capsule, so that's great. Yeah, I get it with the information that class was theory of the one.

Speaker 4 43:33

Yeah, absolutely, and and yes, sorry.

Speaker 1 43:37

No, no, no, please go ahead.

Speaker 4 43:40

I think I heard. The best thing I ever heard was someone said that you don't even need to try to find your style, it's just in you.

Speaker 4 43:49

It's like oh my God, yeah, and it is because, like, you start out as a director not knowing what you're like, but you definitely know what you don't like. Yeah, absolutely. You looked at 100 images, you'd be like yep, yep, no, no, no, no. And then you've got this collection of images which is essentially what you like, and then, over time, that forms your voice. Your voice is a collection of things you like and, I guess, don't like, or you know, the things you don't like have just been pushed aside.

Speaker 2 44:19

I had a fortune in my fortune cookie that said discontent is the first step of progress for man or nation, and I was like that actually makes a lot of sense.

Speaker 1 44:33

Yeah, I love this random wisdom and the way you pronounce it so, but that's amazing, I love that.

Speaker 4 44:42

Keep hold of that fortune cookie, yeah.

Speaker 2 44:46

I got it probably eight to 10 years ago and I've kept it in a little ceramic job.

Speaker 3 44:52

Say what it said again, because I was so focused on.

Speaker 5 44:56

I was distracted when you said for.

Speaker 3 44:58

Jack's arm so hard because you said fortune or tune or tune or tune or tune.

Speaker 1 45:03

We're from East Coast world. That's an East Coast. Maybe I got judged as for it.

Speaker 5 45:08

I've never heard of it.

Speaker 3 45:10

We really attack people for mispronouncing.

Speaker 5 45:12

We do so.

Speaker 2 45:17

What did it say? The fortune says discontent is the first step of progress for man or nation. Well, holy shit Like that right, because knowing what you don't like helps guide you towards specificity of what you like. I think Chris wrote that yeah, you do fortune cookies on the fire for two cookie.

Speaker 3 45:42

That was me there we go.

Speaker 4 45:46

I've been found out.

Speaker 1 45:47

Yeah, slick side, I agree with that though, yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 3 45:52

Doesn't just do development branded short stories, production, post-production, epk. They all said fortune cookie.

Speaker 2 45:59

Yeah, it does speak to whether you're pivoting or expanding your career capabilities or becoming a multi hyphenate. Something not feeling right or not liking something doesn't have to be scary or bad, because it might just help course, correct you or give you more of a vision to something that does feel right and aligned creatively for a story, for whatever it is you're working on. So don't be scared of things that are knows or don't feel right, because it's actually a really exciting opportunity to get specific on what is your next step. Gorgeous, absolutely.

Speaker 1 46:42

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4 46:43

Absolutely yeah.

Speaker 1 46:45

That's a unfortunately, we have to wrap things up. I feel like we'd really just found something. I know.

Speaker 5 46:50

I know.

Speaker 1 46:51

I'm not good at yeah. Yeah, it's going to be my cold open for this episode.

Speaker 5 46:56

I do two things.

Speaker 1 46:57

Yes, absolutely.

Speaker 5 47:00

I just wanted to relate this back, really importantly, to slick films, because you said something that is very true, which is that filmmaking can often be painful, but there exists a possibility in a world in which everyone experiences a large amount of pain alone, especially when you're, when you're coming up and you're new and you have no idea what's going on and how to break in. But then there are people who create opportunities and they they, in their experience shoulder a burden that, to a new person, would be much more painful than to you know, any any degree of established community group business, and it's something that we strive to do and the thing that I love the most about slick films, which is that it shoulders a burden and allows young people coming up into the industry, or even not young, but but young in terms of, you know, work. It affords them an ability to traverse the space and not feel the full brunt of that pain and not get turned off, as a lot of people unfortunately do, which I just want to. I just want to honor.

Speaker 1 48:18

Speaking from experience.

Speaker 4 48:19

I am. I am, and then one of the nicest thing anyone's ever said.

Speaker 3 48:23

That's bloody lovely, thank you you started this off off camera before we started recording with such an unprompted, glorious review of us.

Speaker 1 48:35

And then I hope because you've just gotten your green card that we will see you very soon in LA and you're always welcome here at the CFA studio. Thank you so much. Come and visit you, guys.

Speaker 3 48:45

I hope you have to come back and accept another Oscar.

Speaker 1 48:49

Okay, you in physically to the studio.

Speaker 4 48:52

I don't know if that'll ever happen again. Guys, who knows?

Speaker 5 48:54

that's a one in a lifetime, who knows Don't say things like that yeah just think about it as a possibility for you know a do over and getting those names in right before the music starts.

Speaker 3 49:07

Practicing and preparing for 45 seconds, so you don't get played off.

Speaker 1 49:12

And Bree will ask you if there's a countdown clock and you'll know. But thank you so much, chris, for coming on. I'm Chris Overton, everyone and we are very excited about about everything going on at Slick, as well as the massive slate of films that you are bringing, hopefully, to all of the festivals that we will be official podcast partners out in the future.

Speaker 4 49:33

So thank you so much, thank you guys Real pleasure Cheers.

Speaker 5 49:38

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