Mastering the Dance of Camera & Actor w/ Camera Operator Colin MacDonnell

Ever wondered how the dance between actor and camera is choreographed to capture? We sit down with camera operator, Colin MacDonnell, as we traverse the landscape of filmmaking, we talk about the bridge between technical and creative. 

The episode is filled with anecdotes spanning from the nerve-wracking jitters of newcomers to the commanding presence of industry veterans.

Colin's journey from Massachusetts to California and his ascent in the world of cinematography is nothing short of inspiring. His stories illuminate the intricate scheduling, the trust that threads through a film crew, and the profound impact of a respectful, united set on the storytelling process. Whether you're a film aficionado or a curious listener, the merge of creativity and technical skill discussed here will leave you with a newfound appreciation for the craft.

We touch on how actors like Taron Egerton sync with the crew in a 'flow state,' and the challenges and triumphs of communication that define a film set's atmosphere. From the raw grind of career progression in the industry to the grace of a perfectly timed camera move, the stories shared here encapsulate the essence of movie-making — a testament to the collective endeavor of bringing stories to life. Join us for a journey through the lens of a Steadicam and into the core of cinematic storytelling.

For our listeners, CFA’s teamed up with We Make Movies to get you a discount on production management services, including access to comprehensive production insurance and workers' comp for your next shoot. 

Visit wemakemovies.org/insurance and use code CFA23 on your intake form for 10% off your quote.

Calling all actors! Take 25% off your membership at WeAudition with code: CFA25

Website: www.cinematographyforactors.com

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Cinematography for Actors is a community aimed at bridging the gap between talent & crew through our weekly podcast & community events. Our weekly show supports the filmmaking community through transparent, honest & technically focused interviews with the goal of elevating the art of effective storytelling.

Transcript

Bridging the Gap

Speaker 1 0:00

Actors are sensitive. You can't, they wouldn't be actors if they weren't sensitive, if they weren't able to be emotional and if they show up on set for the first time and they can't immediately tell that you care about them and their performance and their presence, then that's not a good way to start. So I try to make it very, very clear that I do care about that, because that's the way you get a good performance. That's the way you get a good show. A good performance makes a good show.

Speaker 3 0:26

This is the cinematography for Actors podcast.

Speaker 4 0:29

More than a podcast. Cinematography for Actors is a vibrant community devoted to bridging the gap between talent and crew. Each week, our show offers transparent, insightful conversations with industry leaders. We unveil the magic behind the scenes, from candid discussions about unique filmmaking processes to in-depth technical exploration. Join us in unraveling the intricacies of filmmaking, one episode at a time. It's more than just cameras and lenses we aim to inspire, educate and empower as we peel back the curtain on the art of effective storytelling. Now on to the episode.

Speaker 3 1:06

Hi, hi everyone. Hello, hi, everybody. Welcome. Welcome back to another episode of the cinematography for Actors podcast. My name is Brianna Wing and I'm co-hosting this episode today with Hailey Royal Hi.

Speaker 4 1:20

In this episode you're about to listen to, we interview camera operator Colin McDonnell, who's a friend of yours.

Speaker 3 1:27

I have known Colin for years and he was a CAM operator on the Apple TV show Blackbird starring Taran Edgerton, paul Walter Hauser and the late Ray Leota.

Speaker 4 1:37

That is so cool. Blackbird just won the Emmy for Best Cinematography in a limited series last week.

Speaker 3 1:43

But before we dive in to the conversation, a little background about Colin. He was born and raised in Massachusetts, joined the military which eventually brought him to California where he ended up in the film industry.

Speaker 4 1:55

And this guy identified really early on that he wanted to be a study cam operator, and we're gonna talk about some of the cool stuff he did to become a study cam operator in 2014. And he's been doing it ever since, for nearly a decade. Colin works primarily on commercials and features, with the occasional season of television.

Speaker 3 2:15

So let's dive in. I'm so excited to introduce you all to my friend, colin McDonnell. Hey, colin.

Speaker 1 2:22

Hi Brianna, hi Hailey, welcome. Thank you for having me.

Speaker 3 2:26

So, as you know, cinematography for actors is all about bridging the gap between talent and crew. So I'd love to ask you about your experience as a camera operator and how you interact with actors on set. For listeners who may not know, we have a range of new and seasonal filmmakers. Can you explain what a study cam is, how and why it's different from other cameras and when it's usually used?

Speaker 1 2:48

Well, a study cam is worn on the body. It's not handheld. It's mechanically balanced by adding mass to the camera, so it moves through space in a lot smoother way than it would if it were just being handheld. And the way it's normally used is going from A to B. For the most part, if we need to exit a room and walk down the hall and get to the next room, that's usually how we're going to do it.

Speaker 1 3:27

You could use Dolly for that, and some cinematographers like to do that, but there's all kinds of hang-ups with that. You're going to see the track on the ground. If you pull back far enough. You won't have the kind of really small adjustment capabilities that you will have on a study cam. And that's the main thing about study cam I think that makes it very enjoyable to work with actors with is that you are just too humans moving through space. There's no 700-pound wheeled vehicle behind you or under you that's on track, and so you can make these very small adjustments and you can literally shift your weight from foot to foot, as an actor shifts their weight from foot to foot, and when done correctly and done in sync with an actor, I think it's one of the most kind of holistic ways to use a camera.

Speaker 4 4:25

So it's worn on the body using a rig, right, like it's strapped to you. What is that mechanism? Are there different kinds? How do you? There's so many body types, how do you make sure that that fits you?

Speaker 1 4:42

Well, you wear a vest which is a pretty rigid vest, like, imagine, a rigid hiking backpack, but reversed, so the hard parts in the front and the soft parts in the back, and then attached to that is a spring arm that is adjustable in its weight. So what you do is you adjust the tension of the spring arm until it equals the mass of the camera plus the rest of the study cam rig, so it essentially floats in midair, and then all that weight is distributed through the vest.

Speaker 4 5:13

That's the mechanical balancing that you're talking about.

Speaker 1 5:15

Well, the mechanical balance. Well, that's part of the balancing is balancing the weight on the arm, and then the other part of the balancing is balancing the camera front to back on the steady cam rig. It's all the heart of it is a gimbal which has just two sets of bearings One that rotates fore and aft and one that rotates side to side, and then obviously a big bearing that goes 360 around. So obviously you can cover all axis of movement and you just simply put it on a peg and balance it Balance the camera front to back, balance the camera side to side, and then you balance it top to bottom, which is usually done by. We call it a drop time.

Speaker 1 6:01

So you hold the whole rig 90 degrees parallel to the ground and then let it fall back to perpendicular, and the amount of time that that takes is it's varies person to person and they're extensive arguments about what a good drop time is and how to, when to use a longer one, when to use a shorter one, but that's basically the principle of it is it needs to be a little bottom heavy so it always stays flat to the horizon or as close to flat as you can be, but not so bottom heavy that it's gonna start swinging around and you go around corners and stuff. So it's a very fine balancing act and you balance very, very accurately. And if you ever happen to be hanging around watching a steady cam operator standing next to their AC, their assistant camera, while they're building a steady cam, you'll probably see a steady cam operator pointing individual wires and going, hey, can you tape that down? Can you make sure that's not gonna move? Can you make sure that's? Nothing's gonna swing? Nothing, no balance is gonna shift while I'm moving around.

Speaker 4 7:04

So it's a very personal process. It's building your rig.

Speaker 1 7:08

It is, and everybody does it a little different.

Speaker 3 7:10

Wow, can you talk about what your process is when you get hired onto a project, like? At what point during the process or in pre-production do you get hired? Who calls you? Do you get the script, do you not? Does it change depending on the project and the size of it?

Speaker 1 7:29

The way it changes is based on who my contact is. It's most often the director, photography or the cinematographer whichever you wanna call them but sometimes it could be the director or even in rare cases, it could be an actor who might be also producing, who goes. You know what I really like working with this guy and we should try to get him on, but cinematographers don't always like that. Being told who to hire, oh, interesting.

Speaker 1 7:56

So the few times I have been recommended by someone who's not a cinematographer. It's never worked out because and it's perfectly within their right to go you know what you might like working with them, but I don't know this person, so I'm gonna have someone on that I'm comfortable with.

Speaker 4 8:08

Because they tend to have their team. Yeah, exactly, exactly, and that's a very personal thing as well.

Speaker 3 8:14

I guess, when you're working with a DP that does call you directly, how do they know to incorporate you into the schedule? Or like, are they doing their breakdown and they're like these shots will need Steadycam, and then they'll call you and be like I have this project, I think I'm gonna need you on X, y and Z days or I'm doing this TV show. What's your general availability for the next few months? How does the scheduling work?

Actor Collaboration on Set

Speaker 1 8:40

Well, it depends on what job I'm doing. Normally nowadays I'm doing a camera slash, steadycam, which means I'm operating on almost every shot, whether it's on Dolly or handheld or on a Technocrane or on Steadycam or anything, and Steadycam there's. I mean on a narrative project that goes months and months and months. I mean there'll be a few shots that the director and the DP have talked about a month ago. That might be. This is a Steadycam shot, this is a water, this is a. You know, they'll know exactly, but a lot of times it's a game time decision that you make on set just based on the parameters, because so much can change Depending on the scale of the project, the kind of. The more experienced actors you're working with, the more likely it's going to be that they're going to have a say in the way the scene is blocked and the way the scene is shot and to get the best performance out of them, the actors will have a say in that A lot of times, yeah.

Speaker 1 9:36

And they'll go. You know what I see why you design the shot this way. But I just don't think that my character would come in and sit down like that. I think I would probably stand up and keep it and they go. Okay, great, you know, let's make the scene work for that and that's how you get good performances. A lot of times you just you listen to them and you take their instincts and make the shot work for them.

Speaker 3 10:00

So like, let's say you're on set episodic actor, whether he or she or they is a producer on the project or not. What if they're just not just, but if they aren't producing it as well? Have you noticed they have such a say too, because it's their character. They're moving through space and they're having that conversation with the director during rehearsal, which then involves like a blocking rehearsal.

Speaker 1 10:27

It varies so much from actor to actor and director to director. We all know I mean, I've never worked with, with the people about to mention, but you know, for instance, someone like the Coen brothers or David Fincher or something like that. Even the biggest actors in the world know that you're not going to come on set and reblock the scene. You're going to come on set and they'll. They'll hold up a storyboard and go yeah, this is what you're doing.

Speaker 1 10:48

And that's that's and everyone knows, that's how good results are got on those with those projects. But some directors like freewheeling, they, they go. I didn't rehearse this. Let's just have you guys walk in the space and see what feels right and we'll go from there. And you know, the DP won't have even lit, it, won't even have looked at it, until the actors move around the space and do what they're going to do.

Speaker 3 11:10

What like private conversations are you having with the DP, just between the two of you, either in prep or when you're on set getting ready for the next shot? Like that first phone call if a DP is calling to hire you, are they talking about technical and creative choices before you guys even get on set?

Speaker 1 11:30

Oh, yeah, yeah, absolutely. They'll usually be a lot of reference photos or reference videos or, a lot of times, movies to watch. Hey, I need you to watch these three or four movies, or at least this couple episodes of this television show, or something like that, and that's, that's your homework to do. And then, once you get on set, I mean, no one wants to completely.

Speaker 1 11:48

Well, I don't want to get sarcastic already, but no one wants to completely ape the look of another project, even though it happens all the time. So these are your broad stroke references and kind of the way the camera is moving, okay, you know. Hey, look the. You know there could be a reference where the, the, the thesis of the cinema target to be okay, the camera will not move unless there is a reason to move it, unless an actor is moving or the. You know you're tracking an object or something like that. Or you could say, oh, look at this reference, the camera is always moving, it's always creeping, it's always sliding, it's always booming, it's always doing something to kind of give you some uneasiness or something like that. So that's usually the kind of broad strokes that you go for.

Speaker 1 12:38

And then, once you get on set, if you have a good crew and you have a good director and you have people who immediately understand, who just kind of get the, get the tone and just get the tone of the cinematography and get the tone of the show and get the tone of the performance, it's really easy and it all makes sense. A lot of times you'll be on set. I mean, especially on the show Blackbird. I mean we would watch a scene get blocked. Look at each other and go yep, yep. Okay, we know what to do. Like there's very little discussion. That has to happen when everyone is on the same page with the tone.

Speaker 4 13:12

That's really cool. It's very cool.

Speaker 1 13:15

And it's the best feeling. It feels like you're what a flow state. It's like the entire project becomes flow state. You don't even have to think anymore. You just know what the answer is right away. You know what the lens to use, what camera platform to put it on.

Speaker 3 13:35

You're all speaking the same creative language. That must feel so good.

Speaker 1 13:38

It's fantastic.

Speaker 4 13:39

And when all it takes is a look to be like you know what we're thinking that's the best.

Speaker 1 13:45

Speaking of a look just because I want to give this guy all the credit in the world on the first day Taryn Edgerton was on set on Blackbird we'd probably been shooting for two or three weeks at that point and he came in to do his, to start his character, a little later than some of the others and we're doing a scene that. It's a pretty simple scene. He's getting stuff out of a car. He's like pulling stuff out of a trunk. He's got, he's got a bag full of money or drugs, or I think it's money and drugs, and it's one of those very kind of fiddly shots it's. It's, you know, start on his face, whip down to what he's getting out of the car, whip back up to his face and then follow him inside, that kind of thing it's.

Speaker 1 14:29

So it's a tricky kind of timing shot that you really got to be in sync with him and I was obviously right next to him and again, we'd never met, we'd been working together for about an hour and a half at that point and the director calls cut and cut, moving on from probably 60 yards away, and I immediately turn and look at the DP from about the same distance and I'm like kind of shaking my head like oh, I think we might need another one. And he sees me doing that and he mouths silently to me one more and who's mouthing Terran, okay, he goes, he goes one more silently and I go yeah, I think we need one more.

Speaker 1 15:13

And he yells to the director I need one more. And I was like oh my God, I love, fucking love this guy.

Speaker 2 15:19

And that was our first interaction.

Speaker 1 15:21

Oh my God, that's and I knew from that moment like, oh, this, this, this shoot's gonna be pretty darn good.

Speaker 3 15:26

I love this let's talk.

Speaker 1 15:27

Let's dive into that sort of relationship.

Speaker 2 15:30

I love that.

Speaker 3 15:31

Right as actors like what a bond I want to talk about the relationship you have with the actors when you're on set. What the conversations like. What are those first, like that was your first interaction. I mean, okay, let me back up, what's the first interaction you usually have with an actor on set? And then, what are those first types of conversations, creatively like what you just spoke about?

Speaker 1 15:52

The first interaction especially. I mean, if I don't know the person, I don't know anything about them. I just try to be really overly polite and professional and you know, look them in the eyes and talk to them like a person. You know the difference between the way um, maybe like a rich dick treats a waiter versus the way someone who's worked in the business treats a waiter. Oh, hell yeah.

Speaker 3 16:17

Looking yeah.

Speaker 1 16:19

Looking, looking them in the eyes, genuinely like pausing the conversation to, to listen to them and talk to them and treat them like a fucking human being, and which is crazy to think that, like you know, the actors are the star of the show. But a lot of times, especially when you get maybe a little over it tired old crew people they can kind of blow them off a little bit, and I'm sure you've seen it on set.

Speaker 1 16:48

Totally you know, and I think there's this whole um, you know this, this really long standing stereotype of the actors being the divas. But when, um, when an actor shows up to set and the crew people are the ones who won't give them time of day, I mean, who's being the diva there? And I see that a lot and I think it's it's that you're you're starting off on the wrong foot. You do not want to start off like that. I think nothing. You know, I don't want to insult anybody here, but they'll tell. I mean, the actors will tell you themselves. They go. Actors are sensitive. You can't.

Speaker 1 17:26

They wouldn't be actors if they weren't sensitive, if they weren't able to be emotional and if they show up on set for the first time and they can't immediately tell that you care about them and their performance and their presence, then that's not a good way to start. So I try to make it very, very clear that I do care about that, because that's the way you get a good performance. That's the way you get a good show. A good performance makes a good show. I mean, I don't really know what else.

Speaker 1 17:51

You know as much as my personal job involves the cinematography and stuff, and obviously I love good cinematography. But, um, at the end of the day, the performances make the movie, make the TV shows. You know the cinematography is a cherry on top. If it's a good performance and it also looks great, then awesome, maybe you're going to win an Oscar. But if it's lots of shows and movies have done very, very well that look just okay, but no movie has done well that looks incredible and has crap performances. So you know, that's that is very obviously what's important and that's what that's what's been important since the very beginning.

Speaker 4 18:27

Can we?

Speaker 1 18:27

jump back a little bit Mm-hmm.

Speaker 4 18:29

I want to know the story of how you decided that you wanted to be a study cam operator, and because when Brie introduced you she said that it was like pretty immediate that you knew that's what you wanted. Um, how did that happen?

Speaker 1 18:47

Well, like a lot of people, I got to LA and then I bullshitted my way on the set.

Speaker 3 18:52

You what You're way on the set Bullshitted, bullshitted, yeah, nice.

Speaker 1 18:55

Just that I'd done it before, and that's exactly what. Speaking a lot of this is going to come back to the den, which is very funny which is a bar. That the only reason me and Brianna know each other.

Speaker 3 19:04

I'm telling that.

Career Progression in the Film Industry

Speaker 1 19:04

Yeah, um, I had just moved to LA and the den was literally the closest bar by distance to my apartment, so that's where we started going and at the time I started going in, like you know, mid 2011, one of the regulars who you'll remember Hugh, of course um, he had just produced a movie and he was hanging out with the grip team and the grip team would frequently come by the den and I became friendly with Hugh and through Hugh, I became friendly with these guys who are these old union grips and stuff and you know I didn't really have much of a job yet and how old are you 23., 22.

Speaker 1 19:43

22, 23. And you know I'm a big guy, as anyone who might be watching this can tell, and they're like, yeah, you'd be a good grip, you can carry some shit yeah.

Speaker 3 19:53

How tall are you? 6'2" Cool.

Speaker 1 19:54

And they were like uh, yeah, you'd be a good grip. And I was oh, can I come grip with you? They're like hell, no, but here's what you need to, literally for anyone listening you'll find this very funny. If you know what I'm talking about. He told me look up what a C stand, a four by four floppy and a sandbag is. That's all you need to know to go on set. If you know what those three things are you'll be fine on your first day. That's great.

Speaker 1 20:19

And you'll learn everything else once you're there. And he was dead right and so I got on set and just started. Very luckily, I got on set and I got on as a grip and one of the guys I was working with had just graduated film school. It was the same age as me but he'd gone to film school so he knew what he knew the, the, the verbiage better than I did. So the DP would say to me hey, I need, I need a four by four cut of quarter CTO and a four by four frame on a C-Stand. Put it in front of that 1.2k and I go, yep got it and I walk up to this guy and go, hey, ah, what's up?

Speaker 1 20:56

What's a four by four quarter CTO. And he would hand me these things and I would go back and I put him up. So I literally like he, you know, I'd go whisper to him what it was and he was nice enough to do that, not go. You don't know what the hell you're talking about. I'm gonna go do it. He was a nice kid and he and he allowed me to learn what I was doing through his Limited films, film school knowledge.

Speaker 4 21:15

But that's a thing, kevin, for the cool guys on set you were like sure.

Speaker 3 21:19

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Speaker 1 21:55

They had a study came up here from one day and again, being a big guy, I was like I can do that. I just saw him show up and I saw him put it on. I was like I can do that.

Speaker 3 22:03

I don't know what.

Speaker 1 22:03

I don't know what he's doing, but I'm gonna do it and that's a cool thing he's wearing.

Speaker 4 22:07

Where that thing?

Speaker 3 22:08

exactly then. How did you make the leap from being like I can do that, I want to do that, to actually doing it?

Speaker 1 22:15

Well, I had to make enough money to buy one. I managed to get from dolly grip into a pretty specialized position which is doing like techno, crane teching and what is techno crane teching techno cranes are the big telescoping cranes that show up on sets Every now and then, when producers decide they can afford them like though.

Speaker 4 22:44

Yeah, it's like a truck, it's like a trailer, like a little like a truck trailer, yeah, and on the trailer bed is a huge hydraulic arm it looks like, and then Another giant arm that is a crane arm, but on the end of the crane arm is a camera. That's right, that's what we're talking about a lot of times.

Speaker 1 23:04

They can go anywhere there a lot of you can be a whole car mobile these mobile kind of crawler bases that look like the base of a, you know, like one of those big skidder forklifts with these with the big, four foot tall tires and they can drive off-road and yada yada.

Speaker 1 23:19

They're a very cool piece of equipment. You can only you know there are many shots See you can only do on those and they're very important and they require between like two and four people per crane to operate them, to drive the base around, to swing the crane, to scope the crane, and then what I was doing was essentially being an assistant. Each of these cranes, depending on the length, requires between like two and four thousand pounds of steel weights to be loaded onto these things every time you use them to counterbalance the weight of the camera and the telescoping. So you're swinging rates weights around your, your clean trailers, you're getting people coffee, but You're 24 years old, you're making like 550 bucks a day, which is pretty good when you're 24 years old, and so through that job I was able to buy my first Eddy Kim, because I knew, I knew I still wanted to do that.

Speaker 3 24:15

And did you learn how to use it once you bought it? I kind of self-taught myself.

Speaker 1 24:21

I just watched guys do it and I watched a lot of old there's a lot of just free videos on YouTube of you know from the 80s or early 90s of these guys at the, the steady cam workshops and stuff, and I would watch the videos and learn how to do it. And then, once I got my hands on it, it's a. It's an extremely intuitive device. The guy who invented it, garrett Brown, is a is a true mechanical genius. He's invented a lot of really useful mechanical inventions, both In the film industry and outside the film industry. He's invented like the sky cam that you see flying over football games, which is probably the most used. You know one of the biggest changes in the way sports are shot.

Speaker 4 25:02

Oh yeah, you know what you're talking about it like zips across the field, and so he invented that. He invented the. He invented the, the camera on rails that follows Olympic sprinters.

Speaker 1 25:11

Oh wow, shoots down the track. And he also invented.

Speaker 1 25:14

Mechanical devices for people that have like lost limbs and stuff like that, that all function on these like really, really simple mechanical principles, like he's. Nothing that he's created is Like a digital device. They're all very simple mechanical devices that follow simple mechanical principles, and that's what. That's what the steady cam was. That was his first one and it was. It's just so brilliantly intuitive. Anyone can see how it works. You can see how it works. You know the Masai Mara of Africa and show them they and they go oh, oh, I get it. I see how this works. It's really simple. It's really simple, it's really intuitive. It has nothing to do with filmmaking, it's just really mechanically Intuitive the way your body moves and it moves with it, yeah, and and even the way you balance away.

Speaker 3 25:58

I mean, you know to use that same metaphor.

Speaker 1 26:01

A person could, would, could balance a spear on their fingers and then look at steady cam. Yeah, I see how it works. I see how it works. Yeah, I was wondering. Can you, when you're on set, can you tell the?

Speaker 3 26:11

difference between Technically experienced actors or not.

Acting Techniques and Communication on Set

Speaker 1 26:15

It depends on the actor which is which is funny because you can never quite tell how the technical prowess of somebody is unless you talk to them about it. And I think those, the two stars of that show, were a great example, because they're the complete opposite ends of the spectrum, both being very good technically. But one of them is very vocal about it and very interested in information. What lens are we on? How much are you seeing exactly? How much are you seeing? Are you seeing from my sternum or are you seeing from my collarbone? I need to know that. Like, that's very important information for him. And the other one not so much. You didn't really have to tell him anything, but you could tell he was paying attention. You could tell he was paying attention. You could tell he was paying attention. You could tell he was very technically savvy because Even though he wouldn't ask the questions and he wouldn't wonder what the lenses were and he didn't really care, he cared, obviously, but he didn't need to know what was happening with the camera and yet he would do everything right in the frame regardless. So it was a great kind of dichotomy because I spent so much time with these two guys. They're in the same scene for most of the show, or a great majority of the show, and you'd be going from one to the other and you'd see these completely different technical styles.

Speaker 1 27:33

Both are brilliant actors, both are wonderful human beings, but they approach technicality and acting in very different ways. One is very, very plugged in. I need to know the lens, I need to know what you're seeing, I need to know what the camera is doing, I need to know the timing, I need to know when the camera starts, I need to know when the camera stops, and I will base my performance on that. And the other one goes oh cool, all right, got it, I'll just do what I'm gonna do over here. And it took me a few months to realize that that the guy who seemed like he was a little less technically into it was actually very technically into it because a scene might come up where he had to do something. I mean, this is a violent, you know, at times like unsettling and scary shows, so the violent stuff has to happen.

Speaker 1 28:22

And there are times where he had to either physically assault somebody or, you know, be completely unhinged and fly out of a chair at 90 miles an hour. And that's a classic instance of like that's, that's kind of your act, or technicality 101. How do you stand up out of a chair, you know?

Speaker 4 28:41

For the cameras for the cameras.

Speaker 1 28:44

Do you do this? Because the camera guy's gonna go completely overshoot you and you're gonna see a camera that's pointing above your head and then it's gonna slowly come back down and then the director's probably gonna go okay, we should probably reset. Or do you stand up? You know, in a very controlled, understandable way.

Speaker 1 29:06

That's like the classic, like that's technicality 101 is how you stand up from a chair, you know, and there's times in the show where you can't slow it down because the performance would change and there's like explosiveness and anger in these scenes and you can't force a guy to stand up over the course of two seconds when he should be shooting out of a chair in the quarter of a second, because that would just change the performance fundamentally. It wouldn't look right. He's supposed to be exploding, he's supposed to be angry. You can't tell him hey, actually, can you slow down a little bit? So there would be times when this would happen or a scene would come up and he would, and he would come up to me very, very kindly and go hey, you know I can't slow this one down.

Speaker 1 29:50

You know I write like I got to go fast, like I want you to go fast. It's gonna look great. And he would say do you need like a tell? And I'd be like, okay, let's do a couple with a tell, a couple without a tell, and a tell being like slapping your leg before you stand up. You know that was that was that was what he would use. He would go. You know if he's gonna shoot out of a chair, he would go, and I would know right when that slap happened that he's about to shoot up.

Speaker 4 30:17

Amazing For our listeners who've been with us. We talked about that before a few times, calling it telegraphing and kind of deciding with your operator. Let them know what you're going to do and if you understand what it is, you will see it happening all the time on television and in movies. You can tell what their tell is.

Speaker 1 30:42

Yeah, yeah. Another great one is like turning your head before you leave or something like that, especially if you have to leave quickly, you know, turn the head and then go, instead of just sending your whip around instead of just sending your body flying one direction.

Speaker 4 30:58

Yeah, that's an awesome thing to practice.

Speaker 3 31:00

Yeah, all this communication you're having with the actor. You know you're having it directly but, like politically on set with the DP. Do they ever mind that you're having these conversations directly to the actor? Do they ever want you to talk through them, or does it change?

Speaker 1 31:21

It depends on what you're working on. On a commercial, for instance, where a lot of times you have to be extremely technical on commercials like even more technical than on narrative a lot of the times. I would never give an actor a note on a commercial about talking to the director of the DP first mostly the director, because the director is the person who's got to edit this and they have to make it function perfectly in the edit. Commercials are like the most.

Speaker 3 31:43

Because they have only that much like seconds of ad space that they've purchased.

Speaker 1 31:47

If you've ever been on a commercial set, you know that the director is turning to the script supervisor and going how long was that one? 8.6. Okay, we need it to be 8.4.

Speaker 3 31:56

I recently had that experience. I was working on a commercial and I was doing an action and they needed me to make it just seconds shorter. Yeah, or fractions of a second, a lot of times and that's how it has.

Speaker 1 32:06

I mean, they're literally editing it on set. So that is something that I personally, as a camera person, will never fuck with on a commercial. But on narrative, that completely falls under my job description, and unless I was on a set with someone who, a I didn't know very well and B was at a substantially higher level in the industry than I was just say for instance, I was working with Christopher Nolan and Hoytav and Hoytama I would not go willy-nilly, starting giving actors notes on that set.

Speaker 1 32:38

I would absolutely ask both the director and the cinematographer hey, is there any chance we could get them to maybe do this and they would decide whether that would be, or they might say no, I like it the way it is. Just make it work.

Speaker 3 32:51

Have you ever had an experience on set with a more of a newer, inexperienced actor that isn't used to telegraphing or having a tell consistently and maybe forgets their movement every time? And so you are trying your best to keep up with whatever their movement is, but they kind of keep switching it because they can't quite remember. Have you ever had that or seen that?

Speaker 1 33:19

How do you manage that so be?

Speaker 3 33:21

professional and polite and don't make them feel bad.

Communication and Trust in Filmmaking

Speaker 1 33:27

If I can tell that they're getting it, they're starting to get it and they're remembering each time. If they're remembering three times out of four to give me that tell with their shoulders or with their hand before they stand up, before they turn or whatever, then let's go with that. Let's keep trying to reinforce the really technical stuff, but if not, I just need to know what you're gonna do or not gonna do, because I can give you more room, I can be more safe. If someone isn't being particularly technical, I'll just compensate. On my end, I'll usually give them a little extra room in the frame or I won't dive in to come to a stop on a close-up with the same intensity that I might on someone who I know is gonna stick in place. So knowing what their tendencies are is more important than being technically perfect if you're gonna be inconsistent. So, and there are actors, there are great actors. I mean I've heard stories. I haven't worked with them, but I've heard stories about someone, like maybe Hockey and Phoenix or something, who will walk in a room and go okay, I might use this part of the room on this take, I might use that part of the room on the next take. But everybody knows that and the director has prepared for that and the cinematographer has lit the whole room for that and they are ready for it.

Speaker 1 34:50

But if you block a scene and say, okay, I'm gonna walk in that door, I'm gonna sit in that chair, everyone is a quarter of a second ahead of you, preparing for you to do what you said you're gonna do. So if I'm the camera guy and you're walking in the door and you're and I think you're gonna come in and you're gonna sit down, I am going to follow you in the door with the camera and I'm gonna start tilting down before you even start moving to sit down. And if you don't sit down, I'm gonna look really dumb because I'm like you have to be ahead of someone. You can't be reactive on the camera. You have to be just that quarter second ahead of them From a camera perspective.

Speaker 1 35:27

What I need to know is If it is going to vary. If I can tell the actor is going to change it up from take to take a little bit, then that's fine, because if that gets the best performance, then that gets the best performance, fantastic. But I just need to know that and we all need to know that and the DP needs to know that, because they need to know how to light, where they can put the flags, to cut the light off the wall. If you're going to stay standing for longer than you said you were, I'm going to end up tilting up too far and seeing that flag or whatever. Everyone just needs to know what could happen, rather than what you say is definitely going to happen.

Speaker 4 36:03

Right. That's that importance of communication and trusting the team that you're working with to do the work with you and around you. And if you're a technical actor and you want to be very technical and you want to play with the team and the operator, that's your choice and that's wonderful. But if you are a less technical actor and you want the team to play around you, that's something they need to know.

Speaker 1 36:27

That is absolutely. That's it right there. That's everything you just need to. It's all managing expectations, that's all it is like many things in life. It's just if you're dating someone who you know can be volatile sometimes, then you know they can be volatile sometimes, but if you expect them to be normal and then all of a sudden they become volatile, that's going to change things. It's all about expectations.

Speaker 3 36:50

Totally. When you're working on an episodic and you have these relationships with the series regulars and you have a shorthand, you're in sync, and then you have a co-star or a guest star come in for the day, can you sense different energy from them? And, what is, do they ever come right up to you and introduce themselves and write off the bat? I'm thinking about actors coming in and that first interaction they have with you on set. Have you noticed a tendency to just want to talk to the director of the DP, or have you experienced actors very comfortable immediately introducing themselves to the camera operators?

Speaker 1 37:33

Usually the latter and I would hope that would be, and if they don't do it, I'm going to go say hi myself because I want Again, you just want someone to feel welcome and feel at home and not like they're walking into somebody else's party. I don't know what goes on behind the scenes. I imagine they will have had table reads, they will have had time with the other actors. I'm sure they're familiar with each other. Usually they walk on set and they dap each other up or hug or something like that, because they've rehearsed the scene already, they've table read it, they already know each other. But I also want to welcome them on behalf of the crew and make sure that they feel comfortable. The dollar group shakes their hand and the first day sea shakes their hand and now we're all buds. We're all about to be working together.

Speaker 3 38:18

So you're very happy when an actor comes up and is like hey, I'm Bree, what's your name?

Speaker 1 38:23

Yeah, and if they don't, I mean it's funny. Actors are not all crazy alpha people. People can be shy and a little sensitive and stuff. And if they don't walk on set like they're a million bucks and go start high-five and everybody then I'll make sure to be the person who goes and does that and says hi and introduces myself.

Speaker 4 38:45

On behalf of shy actors everywhere, thank you so much. I love to hear that.

Speaker 3 38:53

Yeah, I'm thinking of my first couple jobs. I'm thinking back. I didn't go up and talk to the camera operators as much as. I'm now wishing I could have to just simply make myself more comfortable, and it's not like I'm performing for the crew. We are all performing together in this beautiful dance of a machine, but at that point you don't know.

Speaker 2 39:25

Yeah, you're new and you don't want to waste anyone's time and you don't want to get under anyone's feet.

Speaker 4 39:30

It's scary and hard at first, so hopefully things like this and resources like this can help people understand that it's really okay to say hello to somebody. If their head's not inside a pelican case at the moment, it's probably safe to say, hi, hey, man, can you put that lens down for a second? I'm trying to say hi to you. Just a sec, you got to shake my hand.

Speaker 1 39:49

Please Excuse me actor here.

Speaker 3 39:53

I've never really heard of a circumstance where somebody's like how dare you talk to that person that?

Speaker 1 39:59

does not happen on narrative. It absolutely doesn't, Even on the highest levels. I've not been on the highest levels, but everything I've heard is that it doesn't really change. It is a really egalitarian environment. Everyone is on the same level. Everyone's voice deserves to be heard. Maybe you'll get the occasional wacky European director or something like that who's a little more totalitarian, because they're a little more like that over there, but for the most part in the US film industry, in the UK, in Canada and in Mexico, you're never going to encounter that A situation where you're not allowed to be yourself or talk to someone or be friendly or be chummy or something like that.

Speaker 3 40:42

Gosh, just like. Let me use this as like a therapy session right now. I think back. I went to film school to study production design as a crew member. Before I transitioned, sort of pivoted my career. I don't know where it came from, but a big lesson we learned there was don't talk to the actors, which that makes sense, right? A set decorator isn't going to be like hey old buddy, old pal, old friend, what's your email? So I think I'm wondering if I have this long standing of like don't go talk to that person?

Speaker 1 41:15

Yeah, probably, but also a set decorator is there around the actors all the time.

Speaker 4 41:21

What are you supposed to do?

Speaker 1 41:21

You're in their space A lot of times. I mean there's props in their set deck but like especially the props person, they are like this is how this works.

Speaker 3 41:29

You are best bros.

Speaker 1 41:30

You've got to like you know hey man, I got your Colt 45 for you again. You know you guys are chit-chatting all the time. Set decorators are around the actors constantly.

Speaker 4 41:41

That's actually something that I have mentioned before is some of the friendliest people I have met on set and some of the easiest people to get along with, and the first people who will make me feel comfortable are the set decks, because they're just around, yeah.

Speaker 1 41:56

And what's so funny is I'm laughing as you say that because the set decorators have to be so chill, because every single person on set pisses them off and messes with their stuff, touching their stuff all the time I swear in order of operations.

Speaker 1 42:13

The people who I need to make happy and trust me that I'm not a piece of crap when I get on set are the first AD in the set deck. It was the first two people I go after and make sure that they know that I'm not going to be your typical camera guy and start touching your stuff and moving your stuff. And there's probably a couple set decks who by chance listen to this who go yeah, fucking right, buddy.

Speaker 3 42:34

Yeah right.

Speaker 1 42:36

I had to slap that pen holder out of your hand five times in a row. But no, as I get older and more mature with this, yeah, I would mess with their stuff. And I go, hey look, it's fucking my frame, not yours. But as you get older, it's like imagine if someone did that to you.

Speaker 1 42:52

And they'll say that the ones that have a little boldness will come up and say hey, man, I don't come fucking with your lenses, Don't fucking my shit, and they're absolutely right. And now I make sure to ask permission, ask them to do it a lot of times. Help them if. Help them if possible. And in a lot of times, if you're kind to them, like that, they'll say hey, man, if it's something small, if you need to adjust the coffee mug on the table, go right ahead.

Speaker 3 43:20

That's fine.

Speaker 1 43:21

You're doing it rather than doing it, asking for forgiveness, not permission, because then they're gonna go. No, don't touch it. You know, now it's a matter of being possessive. Now it's going. You know, this guy's just moving my stuff without even asking me, you know.

Speaker 3 43:37

Yeah, I've been on some sets where the camera operator will adjust a mug in the frame versus asking somebody else to make a small adjustment, and it must speak to the working relationship that they've already established between themselves.

Speaker 1 43:51

Unless.

Speaker 4 43:52

Unless we wanna be cynical about it. Yeah, yeah, unless it's the opposite.

Speaker 1 43:57

Unless you look over in the corner and the set text. Just sitting there with their arms crossed, rolling their eyes or whatever You're gonna have to fuck. It goes again. Some PA's gonna get an earful on tube yeah well, you know what happens is you know all it does is you got to pay a little attention. A lot of times they'll walk up, pull their phone out, take a picture of what's on the table, like, if you can't do the math of going, okay, that's what they're expecting to have to reset things to every time.

Speaker 2 44:22

Duh.

Speaker 1 44:23

So don't move it, because now their picture doesn't match anymore. Now they have to go. Okay, their job is to keep continuity. When you see the Starbucks cup on the, that's obviously not set deck, that's something else, but that's the kind of thing. The Starbucks cup in Game of Thrones, that's the kind of stuff that they're paying attention to when film nerds on forums start going oh, look at this.

Speaker 1 44:47

In this frame the freaking lamp is on. Turn that way in this shot and it's turned this way when they cut back to it. The handle on the mug is going one way. On this shot A set deck is sitting at home going that motherfucking camera operator he fucking did that and he didn't tell me. So you gotta have a little empathy for other people's positions.

Speaker 4 45:05

Yeah, I think a really good. Unfortunately we have to wrap up, but I think a really good place to end here is like there are some rules of thumb consideration of the other departments, communication with the other departments and oh my gosh, it's all sees covering each other when you can and when you should, to make sure that it's like a smooth, a smooth place to work and a nice place to work as well. Like, at the end of the day, we're all people and we're all trying to create a story together, which is the coolest job ever, and tensions can run high sometimes, but if you remember the three C's that I just made up, like it's pretty good guarantee that like things will go well, unless you know, barring acts of God.

Speaker 1 46:00

Yeah, or acts of producers usually.

Speaker 4 46:03

Aren't they God, Ooh good.

Speaker 1 46:06

Yeah, I always. Driving on the highway is a metaphor for everything, I think. And that's exactly the way a film set works. There's six lanes wide. You're all trying to get to the same place, don't you gotta be aware of other people around you? If someone wants to merge in front of you and don't fucking accelerate and cut them off, just let them merge. You're all going to the same place. That's the you can't. If you drive on the highways in California, you know exactly what that's like and you've been on film sets where people people act on film sets like people drive on the highways in California every man for themselves and they do whatever the hell they want. They cut off whoever they want they go. I'm the only person. I'm trying to get to where I'm going and nobody else is involved here. You're all in my way and people you know can work like that on film sets. And when the film sets are acting like it's the 101, that's not going to be a fun time.

Speaker 3 47:05

I love that Beautiful Colin. If people wanted to follow you or get in contact with you, what would be the best way to do that?

Speaker 1 47:12

Instagram is just my name, with my first initial, c MacDonald.

Speaker 3 47:18

Perfect, that's it Awesome. Thank you so much, colin, for coming and talking to us today. Thanks, thank you.

Speaker 4 47:23

Yeah, thanks for listening, bye.

Speaker 2 47:26

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